After settling down to a hemi-sync tape in my darkened bedroom, I projected to Haiti and found myself almost immediately in the mess of a collapsed building.  "Imagining it not there" as Bruce teaches, the ceiling and walls reassert their solidity and I shout to people that now's the time to get up and leave. 

Almost miraculously they do just that, filing past me to where I know helpers will lead them on.
I do much the same in another collapsed building.  Very much the disciplined rescue worker focused on the task at hand.

Because of the almost endless political troubles on the island for decades and the psychic dictatorship style control exerted by the elite and their voodoo practitioners, the astral plane of Haiti is almost as much under their control as the physical plane.  (I have spoken of this in my second book, More Adventures In Eternity.)  I soon find myself on a rural road with a stream of dead people heading past me, and I am trying to convince them that their destination is not controlled by others and that they can go anywhere they want (as Robert Monroe says "You are free, free") but it is almost pointless, they all keep heading in a direction that I know will lead them into areas controlled by the astral elite of the island.  They are not zombies exactly, but they act like them.
Later I find myself beside a Mercedes that rubble from a building has flattened.  Two men, dead but not quite knowing it, stand beside the car, annoyed I think.  Then I suss that they had tried to steal the car when the quake hit but had been crushed within it.  They half sense I'm there to help them but pretty much ignore me.

And that's most of what I recall from my first trip to Haiti.  I'm sure I'll be there again tonight when I'm sleeping, as will some of you reading this.

cheers, gordon phinn

Very interesting, Gordon, and not just for the immediate purpose of retrievals but also a glimpse into what might answer the question of "Why Haiti?". Why did this happen to this so badly impoverished place, and after things may have improved there a little after the political mess of prior years? Does it take such violence to free us from our past? Even if the ones who pass over go to re-create the old stuff in their version of the afterlife, the ones who are left here will surely be forced to change. I was listening to a local radio station earlier interview one of the many HAitians who now live here in this area. The topic was based on the observation that the immigrants who lice here live in two worlds, and now they don't have the old world to go back to. And the person being interviewed spoke of a Renaissance for Haiti in the rebuilding that will happen. But it will be challenging. I don't think there will be anyone from there who didn't lose a family member or a friend.

Gordon-

Just as you see the collapsed building as "not there" please consider seeing the "control exerted by the elite and their voodoo practitioners [and] the astral plane of Haiti is almost as much under their control as the physical plane" as NOT THERE. I found it works very effectively, but perhaps it is because I have no investment in a point of view as you have written in your previous books. The energies, which I have also found streaming from Port au Prince as you describe, are in shock, and I found it easy to get their attentions and divert them rather like Bruce described in one of his books. I think just now it is a matter of volume rather than confusion, as they seem to be aware of what has happened, and realize they are no longer on the physical plane.

I visualized a bus appropriate for Haiti, and just opened the door up.....the bus filled and filled and filled, and I realized as I looked back that it was rather like a light tunnel through which the passengers were walking up the aisle. As they did so they seemed to phase out and disappear in to Light. As I was well attended with guides, I assume they got to where they were supposed to get, and I felt I was only the device to attract their attentions to divert them. I do not know where they were going, and when I asked they would only say "away" and nothing more.

I remember standing in Haiti and looking over the border to the Dominican Republic. There were trees and parking lots and cars, even fast food restaurants, but on the Haiti side only mud huts, naked children running around, and checkens pecking in the dirt. I only hope this tragedy will open the eyes of the world to this needy nation, and that we all respond with the love and generosity we all have in our hearts. Please consider helping energetically.

Love and Light,
Thomas

Gordon;
Will be doing a fly by tonight again also...sure they're more to retrieved. It's quite a situation.
PUL
R.

Thomas:  seeing that control "not there" is a bit like seeing the control of any religious belief system "not there" in their area of the afterlife, ie catholics in catholic heaven, or any cult in a strongly held BST, it's just too all encompassing to ditch.   You can only get brave souls "out the back door" as  it were.
Astral Haiti has been under such control for a long time and many souls have much karmic investment in maintaining the status quo, not to mention just plain karma.
Do I have an investment in a pov which dictates how I experience a mass retrieval situation?  Well, I likely do, but it strikes me that any retriever will have some pov or other which will colour their experience.  How can you get away from it?
But I shall certainly consider your point the next time I go out.

gp



   
tgecks wrote on Jan 14^th, 2010 at 11:55am:

Gordon- Just as you see the collapsed building as "not there" please consider seeing the "control exerted by the elite and their voodoo practitioners [and] the astral plane of Haiti is almost as much under their control as the physical plane" as NOT THERE. I found it works very effectively, but perhaps it is because I have no investment in a point of view as you have written in your previous books. The energies, which I have also found streaming from Port au Prince as you describe, are in shock, and I found it easy to get their attentions and divert them rather like Bruce described in one of his books. I think just now it is a matter of volume rather than confusion, as they seem to be aware of what has happened, and realize they are no longer on the physical plane. I visualized a bus appropriate for Haiti, and just opened the door up.....the bus filled and filled and filled, and I realized as I looked back that it was rather like a light tunnel through which the passengers were walking up the aisle. As they did so they seemed to phase out and disappear in to Light. As I was well attended with guides, I assume they got to where they were supposed to get, and I felt I was only the device to attract their attentions to divert them. I do not know where they were going, and when I asked they would only say "away" and nothing more. I remember standing in Haiti and looking over the border to the Dominican Republic. There were trees and parking lots and cars, even fast food restaurants, but on the Haiti side only mud huts, naked children running around, and checkens pecking in the dirt. I only hope this tragedy will open the eyes of the world to this needy nation, and that we all respond with the love and generosity we all have in our hearts. Please consider helping energetically. Love and Light, Thomas

I'm still new to this but its good to know that you guys are on the case.

Supermodel,

Recall a moment in your life when you felt love (Bruce has always used the moment he initially held his newborn babies) and *feel that love* again, now, even if just for a minute or two. It helps to have a quiet environment, undisturbed..but whatever works for you. As you feel that wonderful moment of love, mentally ask that that love energy be sent to the disaster area in Haiti, to anyone needing it who has passed over and needs assistance, or for those still alive and injured, whatever you want. If visualizing the energy and the Haitians in your own imagination seems to help, go for it. Don't worry about whether it will work (it will)...just go with it, as much and as often as you want.

When I initially started retrieving I had no idea what I was doing. I just knew I wanted to help in the afterlife and if Bruce Moen and others could do it, so could I :). Our intention, from the heart, is what it's all about.

Much love,

Ginny

Ginny,

You don't know how much you just helped me. I'm sitting in my bed right now trying to figure out if this is something I finally want to try for the first time.

Your words have helped me tremendously.

I'm going to do exactly as you said and report back soon.

Thanks again!!!!  :) :) :)

Gordon/Thomis
I get the "seeing it not there", but at the same time are you not directly reinforcing the negative energy by acknowledging its existence beforehand? Its also important to remember that Haiti is 95% Catholic. There are most likly just as many voodoo type worshipers in the USA as there is down there.
Joe

Is it possible to do retrievals while in F12 instead of F21 or higher?

If so, I may have done one last night, which I find odd because I don’t recall giving any intent.  I remember waking up, if you can actually call it that, into F10.  I was very groggy and had no sense of my limbs so I assumed I was in F10.  All of a sudden I felt I was slipping into F12 as if I was listening to a CD.  I know this because F12 always gives me a distinct feeling of expansion in my head and less pressure.  Shortly afterward I got very foggy, hazy images of rubble.  Maybe a few images of rubble pass by before I tried the “see it not there” technique.  As soon as I placed my intent, the rubble faded away and I got an impression that people were there and were slowly getting up, but got no impression of specific faces or personalities.  I may have done another one before I clicked out.

I believe I was close last night. I remember it being all hazy like I couldn't get much of a focus.

Then my guide called my name but it scared me so I jumped up.

that was it. I feel like a failure right now. Will try again. :( :-[

Hi Supermodel. Maybe you could try doing what one of the TMI Gateway CD's does in teaching OBE: ask a guide or a deceased relative to be with you, and for one to stand on each side of you, one on left and one on right, and to take you through the process step by step so you can be useful in this situation and learn it. I have done retrievals for a while but I often enter the mind level I use to approach a retrieval effort and find I am feeling very fuzzy because I don't have a specific routine that I use in general. It might be good to establish such a routine with your guide's instruction early on in the learning process. Maybe i should have done that. Vee

Supermodel,

You can't fail when you want to help others :), and it would take pages here to recount what I went through in the beginning. I kid you not, I was a pain in the arse to several Helpers, as well as a great source of laughter :D.

I probably should have mentioned to you that when most are learning to do this there's bound to be some fear about the afterlife, being in contact with those who have passed over and so on. In the beginning I was able to put big fears and worries aside by surrounding myself with a bubble of protective energy. I chose to visualize it, to reinforce the belief that I would indeed be shielded from the energies of others. I learned later on that you can only be influenced by others in the afterlife if *you believe you can be influenced by others in the afterlife*...but when learning to trust yourself, your guides and Helpers, in a new territory, it helps to know you can protect yourself as much as you want.

You're doing fine. Go with what feels right and comfortable. Helpers have lived as humans so they know what you're going through. Just feeling love and stating your intent to have it go to someone, somewhere, will work.

Much love,

Ginny

Thanks Vee and Ginny. I wanted to try again last night but I was too exhausted from work.

I will try again tonight. I've got to get over this fear hump that I'm stuck on and I will!! :)

Mactek:  you got it, that's it exactly!  dead people in collapsed buildings believing they're stuck there, but the astral version of the building hasn't collapsed.  They died so quickly their identification hasn't moved.  They are astral beings but they don't know it.  By imagining the building whole again you remove their illusion and they can get up and walk away.
It's easy to bounce up from focus 12 without actually realizing it.  You were there; you did it.
Shock yourself, Do it again!

gordon phinn






Mactek wrote on Jan 15^th, 2010 at 7:17pm:

Is it possible to do retrievals while in F12 instead of F21 or higher? If so, I may have done one last night, which I find odd because I don’t recall giving any intent.  I remember waking up, if you can actually call it that, into F10.  I was very groggy and had no sense of my limbs so I assumed I was in F10.  All of a sudden I felt I was slipping into F12 as if I was listening to a CD.  I know this because F12 always gives me a distinct feeling of expansion in my head and less pressure.  Shortly afterward I got very foggy, hazy images of rubble.  Maybe a few images of rubble pass by before I tried the “see it not there” technique.  As soon as I placed my intent, the rubble faded away and I got an impression that people were there and were slowly getting up, but got no impression of specific faces or personalities.  I may have done another one before I clicked out.

Hawkeye: interesting point re reinforcing negative energy.  For me it's a toss up between being all rose tinted glasses in a newagey kind of way and being more realistic about the belief system you're working in.  Realistic as in what can reasonably be accomplished and what is beyond the current abilities of those you are trying to help.
If folk are cowed by some type of psychic dictatorship of some black magic elite as in Haiti, there's only so much you can do, no matter how catholic they appear on the surface.  For example, if retrieving in southern Italy, where the mafia still has mega control, you can't wish it away and say "well they're all catholic".  Their vibration will lead them to a lower bst, purgatory if you like, and they'll be stuck there till they have the courage to get out.  Somewhere on this site Bruce talks about getting folk
out the back door of fundamentalist fear-ridden bst's; it's much the same.
In my first disaster retrieval, (Central/South America almost a decade ago) my guide tried to show me how to operate but I was overcome with the group agonies and couldn't be coldly efficient like you have to be (like a cop not needing to cry while doing his duty); but he did show me how in catholic countries imitating a priest is the best thing to do; Catholics will almost always obey a priest. (Recounted in my first book Eternal Life And How To Enjoy It)
Later I learnt to be Muslim when retrieving in Iran earthquake and Jewish-looking in Israel/Palestine.
You're tricking them but you're doing it in a  good cause.

cheers, gordon




hawkeye wrote on Jan 15^th, 2010 at 1:30pm:

Gordon/Thomis I get the "seeing it not there", but at the same time are you not directly reinforcing the negative energy by acknowledging its existence beforehand? Its also important to remember that Haiti is 95% Catholic. There are most likly just as many voodoo type worshipers in the USA as there is down there. Joe

Gordon, I guess its about this "psychic dictatorship" thing you speak about. I cant see how that unless you were to allow this to have influence over you, how it could effect you. Your example makes it seem like you think that all people living in Sicily are being effected spiritually by the mafia. Holding them in lower BST's. Thats like saying that because Bush and his cronies were, and possibly still are, attempting to control the earth for their personal gain, and in the name of evil and for the devil,  all Americans will now be stuck in the lower BST's because of them. Or that all Germans will hold themselves back because of Hitler. ( Yes of course it sound ridiculous. Thats what I am showing) This seems fear based to me. Perhaps a direct product of your religious belief system? I haven't been finding "Black Magic" on my Haiti work over the past few days. I have been pushing through a lot of emotion.  Upon making contact with the ones not understanding their condition, I have felt no underling evil or Black Magic. Just fear, confusion, anger,.. those sort of emotions. Thats not to say that there is not individuals, now without a body, who may get stuck believing their are still alive or moving to some BST because of their beliefs in Black Magic, or the fear of it. Even some who's love of God through their belief in Christianity is overwhelmed by an unsureness because of an underlying possibilities of Black Magic beliefs. In fact there is just as much possibility of being held in a BST by believing in Christianity as there is in believing in Black Magic. It was the having to see it (Black Magic) there before an attempt to see it not there, that I was concerned about. A sort of negative reinforcement.    
(I don't conciter myself as "newagey" sort of guy. There is nothing new about what I do or believe. I know I have been doing this for a long time. Lifetimes.) I am still slightly confused about this "see it not there" of you must "see it there" first. You comment about "being realistic as in what can be accomplished and what is beyond the current abilities of those you are trying to help", also seems self limiting to me. I think you are far more powerful that you believe yourself to be. By assisting in showing some of these souls that they are now without a body, and moving them off to the BST's, is more important at this time that moving them off to a Nirvana. Or whatever. Movement being the key. Not everyone will necessarily end up in F27. Many will drop off into other BST's along the way because of their spiritual awareness, and like vs like. Thats not a bad thing. When they are ready to move onward, they will.  Again, movement being the key. That is my understanding.   

Hawkeye, we seem to be saying much the same thing with different language.  There are plenty of bst and hollow heavens around , not just Haiti.  There are several retrievals from them posted in the retrieval archive testifying to the hold that some bst's have on their inhabitants.
How one moves from a strictly controlled bst, with folks enslaved to thought forms and their controllers and into a more relaxed, beautiful, but still rule bound hollow heaven from which folks glide upward to f27 or some nirvana state is a subtle, and as yet unexplored, series of transitions.
You're right: I am more powerful than I often know.  But balance that against what souls realistically are able to accept as their beliefs slowly lose limitation.  It's best to guide them gradually so that their cherished belief systems don't crash in tatters about them.  Taking them straight to the godhead, when they've only just decided ten minutes before that their church is a bit old fashioned and tradition bound, won't help.  That's a wild example of course, but I hope you get my point.
In many tribal societies the shamans and voodoo type practitioners have such a hold on them that the people don't even think about it that much, it's such a big part of the fabric of their lives. They don't think they're going to stay in some hollow heaven from which they can only reincarnate into the controlled part of the physical plane below; they think they are blessed to be in the real heaven they are so hypnotized, and it wouldn't occur to them to reincarnate anywhere else but physical plane Haiti, despite the fact that they could reincarnate anywhere (and of course gain greater experience by doing so).
In my "own" nation, Britain, we got stuck, as did many Europeans, by worshipping the glory of our Empire, thinking that British was best and reincarnating over and over again in the same country, taking our limiting thought forms with us from life to life, until the ascended masters thought to end this European evolutionary log-jam by opening up North America for settlement 200 years back, and making it appealing to Europeans and giving us fresh cultural identities and ideals to strive for.
Hope this example suffices.
Below is the original Haiti experience from my second book "More Adventures In Eternity" (written in 2004)
____

Latest destruction is on Haiti, where many souls have
been thrust out of bodies in the last twenty-four hours. The regular disaster rescue teams are already at work, but I know their efforts are being hampered by the vice grip that black magic and its local
practitioners have on the culture. Haiti is perhaps the primary example on the planet of a local black hierarchy of shaman/wizard types who define themselves by their ability to control a populace
by continually rotating them from the physical to the lower astral and back again. Their propaganda of fear is extremely effective in keeping the majority of souls from ever ascending higher than the rigidly controlled purgatory/paradise just above the physical
island mass.
   Many priesthoods have pulled similar stunts throughout history, with varying degrees of success, and as free will trumps every other card in our planetary game they must be allowed to exhaust the energy of their illusion without interference. This is
not cruel and unusual punishment for innocent souls involved, for as with all belief systems, planet and history wide, they have all allowed themselves to be seduced by a thought form which enslaves them. As with all believers they exchange their cosmic
birthright of absolute individual freedom for a known territory of strict regulation ruled by local power brokers who see themselves pretty much as deities.

   The retrieval work, such as you have seen previously described, is seriously hampered by the local power structure, which maintains its own retrieval network to support its astral set-up. Inthis they are not unlike the third world physical plane drug barons, who proudly act as community pillars in their resource communities.
   What we do in situations like this is wait around for souls whose colors show that they are ready to move onward and upward. Then there can be a bit of a tussle, as the local network representatives realize they are losing one more slave. Personally I
prefer the zap of white light method, where instead of arguing the toss with the local rep, I suck up the soul essence of the deceased to a mid-level astral reception center suitable for a peasant in the
tropics. There they can relax and settle the choice for themselves without listening to the bickering of rival helpers, which often only confuses them. No method is perfect, of course, and light-workers have to improvise, constantly aware that their efforts, through well meaning, could be misconstrued.

As some of the more perceptive among you may see, this brings up the whole issue of the ethics of moving souls along. What right do we light workers actually have, whether we’re helping a lonely,
weak-willed young soul trapped in an oppressive purgatorial realm, or an about-to-be-former adherent of a strict rules-and-punishment sect or police state, or a fairly free-thinking Christian or Muslim who feels more than a bit itchy in his so-called heaven, in altering that individual’s perceptions? Basically, the same right or opportunity that any human has, to advise a friend who seeks advice. If, for example, your workmate, recently arrived in your city, tells you on coffee break that he can’t stand his neighbors or,
for that matter, his neighborhood, wouldn’t you offer him some sound advice based on your greater knowledge of the urban area?

Plenty of physical plane Christians have had the experience of meeting someone from another denomination, at a barbeque perhaps, who, after a drink or two, will insinuate certain discomforts
with his church/minister/congregation. Haven’t they all
offered their own church as an alternative? We lightworkers/helpers face an almost constant stream of such decisions in our work. And, like high school career councilors we have just enough on our charges to see where they need to go, as well as
where they want to go. Certainly there’s a certain amount of sneaking folk out the back door of some belief system communities, usually the more repressive kind that require a quotient of
psychic slavery for survival, but the joy of liberating a yearning soul generally trumps all other concerns at that point. As they say in certain sectors of the new-age community, grace trumps karma every time.
***********************


cheers, gordon

I did not mean to perpetuate any idea of difficulty or resistance of any kind in speaking about Haiti. I simply do not find any problem retrieving large numbers of life-energies there. The situation and the life-energy you are there for rather dictates the response, does it not? Most Haitians are Catholic, but most also know about the native religion, too. So be resourceful; appear as a voo-doo priest if you must, but please, APPEAR.

I absolutely agree that intention is 95%, maybe more. If you set out with a pure heart full of love and compassion with the intention of being of service, you absolutely will. At Monroe Institute they call it "clicking out" when you have no memory of what happened (or if you fall asleep). But they say you are out of body doing whatever it is that your highest self needs to do. They suggest we protect our ego-selves from the apparent contradictions to maintain our 3D "reality." I find one is given more and more knowledge of these alternate states of being as one can wrap the mind around it without melting down. A belief system meltdown systems crash is at stake for the ego.

So, with pure intention, I set out to be of service in Haiti. I found that there is so very much to do, although the island seems to be well attended by angels and guides, too. It is said that the most advanced souls appear as the homeless and the suffering. If this is so, Haiti is full of advanced souls.

I sat instead of laying flat to be sure I did not fall asleep. I relaxed and when I had cleared my mind I imagined getting on a plane and flying to Haiti, getting off and going in to the city to be of service. I imagined I could see the energetic outlines of the buildings as they had been before the collapse and became aware of the many trapped people now transitioning from being trapped or injured. Almost overwhelming, so I turn down my imaginary volume switch a little until I can deal with this huge outpouring of pain and emotional pain.I enter a store front that was pancaked and "walk" to a group trapped in the first floor at the very  heart of the pile. They all look up at me startled I am passing right through the rubble. Two cross themselves and start to pray out loud in French and I communicate to them that they, too can stand up and move. One by one they struggle out from the blocks and rebar, wide-eyed. More praying, it seems. I find I am communicating telepathically, from my heart chakra, explaining that they have passed from their physical bodies. I reached out to the Guides I knew were all around for assistance, and what I imagined to be a Pathway of Light formed. We moved out to the street and as I waited, this group of eight joined a stream of energy in which could be distinguished individual energies flowing by and gradually rising into the sky. It glowed with Light as it rose like a wisp of smoke, forming in to a tunnel of Light. It reminded me of the longest escalator I had ever seen......

Remember, it is about imagination, too. Like Bruce said in his workshop, "Fake it until you make it."

All thought is creative. Create that you are helping in Haiti. And so it is. Please help. There are so many in need.

Thomas

Thanks for clarifying Gordon. After reading your post I understand better of your intention. Whats the name of your book? Perhaps I can find a copy here in Canada.
And you Thomas, keep up your good work. I only wish I was better suited to retrieve a number of those souls at the same time as you seem so adapt at. With more practice I am sure I will be able to. Don't forget to get out into the outlying areas as well. Far more work to be done there. I find the emotion of dealing with the children effects me the most so far. Releasing the emotion before returning to C1 seems not completed some times and there are times where I find myself somewhat depressed from it. Do you have any sudgestion for me in assisting in releasing this emotion or leaving it behind?
Joe

Embrace it, and be thankful that you feel so much compassion and love for people you do not even know. That is why we have come here, I think. To help. Mother Theresa used to say she looked for the Christ in everyone she helped, and saw it there. You are the angel someone is waiting on today.

Thomas

Strange, I was trying to visit again this morning. Seems like some of them are coming straight up out of the ground, seemed like I saw a lot of them floating straight up like whispy smoky trails. I couldn't quite understand that, but was trying to cover a lot of territory in my meditation, in a number of directions. Received an all clear message, all healed. That's all I know for now.

Hawkeye, glad to be able to be more communicative.  All my three books are available in Canada (that's where I live too!).  www.amazon.ca has them all, and i have friends who have accessed them through small town independent bookshops too.
the first one, Eternal Life and How To Enjoy It has a detailed description of my first "mass retrieval", at which I did not do too well.
And yes, i may indeed be limited by my own pov.  I won't try to deny it.

cheers, gordon





hawkeye wrote on Jan 18^th, 2010 at 1:50pm:

Thanks for clarifying Gordon. After reading your post I understand better of your intention. Whats the name of your book? Perhaps I can find a copy here in Canada. And you Thomas, keep up your good work. I only wish I was better suited to retrieve a number of those souls at the same time as you seem so adapt at. With more practice I am sure I will be able to. Don't forget to get out into the outlying areas as well. Far more work to be done there. I find the emotion of dealing with the children effects me the most so far. Releasing the emotion before returning to C1 seems not completed some times and there are times where I find myself somewhat depressed from it. Do you have any sudgestion for me in assisting in releasing this emotion or leaving it behind? Joe

I know that most literature lists Catholicism as the moajor religion of Haiti, but today on a BBC world news report I heard someone say that about half the people practice some form of voodoo. They probably practice both at the same time. If you look at Haitian art, which is very fun to look at because it tends to be colorful, you will see both religions portrayed, probably with equal frequency. (Of course, to some of us, Catholicism is just another form of a voodo like religion. If I was dead and you appeared to me as a priest, I would probably think I was in Hell) The issue arose in connection with the cultural problems created by burying people in mass graves. This is very disrespectful in the local vodoo religions (which have another name but I forgot it). The voodoo priests figure in the public life; one was interviewed and indicated he had spoken with the Haitian president about this problem (of disrespect to the dead). I would be more convinced with the retrievals if you ended up impersonating voodoo priests (based on the culture) rather than Catholic priests (based on common belief about the culture). If the BBC can figure this out, surely your guides can too.

I would imagine there could be some retrievals in those mass graves? Kind of gruesome. Lots of dead children, in the mass graves.

Also looking at the history of Haiti, it seems one could possibly be retreiving someone from a prior disaster. I don't suppose it matters much which time frame someone might come from. Here's an article with a list:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/country_profiles/1202772.stm

I can't help but wonder what this country means to the world experience. Death is a way of life there.

Lucy, I know with me, I dont see their life energys lying around with the dead bodies. So going into a mass grave is an unlikely place for what I have been doing, retrieval wise. More often than not, the life energy is stuck in the immediate area of where the traumatic happening occurred. In the day care. Or the home, or on the street. Wherever. Most cases they are thinking they are still alive, but confused about the situation . Sometime continuing to try to live a normal sort of life. Sometimes in fear. Many stuck in the grips of their dying expearence. Pain and all.
As for the practice of voodoo. I dont have any concerns at all. Just because other people dont understand that belief system, doesn't make it wrong or bad. A lot of people think the same about Christianity, or Islam to. Or, or, or. Just because they may believe or practice in "Voodoo" doesn't mean their going to some sort of hell, or that its wrong. That's Christianity's thinking. "My God or no God". In the end, all religions are just beliefs. None better than the other. In my way of thinking, I believe it better for them to move on to a Voodoo area of the BST's than being stuck in between, not knowing their body or the phyical is no longer accessible for their use. At least they have a much better chance of moving forward from Voodoo heaven or Voodoo hell. (Even if that is through the back door at some point.)
It is unfortunate that they are getting buried in mass graves but it is the necessity in order to control the spread of diseaseand save the living. Some feel a need to hold dead bodys in some sort of esteem. Putting them in the ground, in an area where they can return time and time again to grieve over them could in all actuality hold that passed person back from moving forward. For me, (not everyone) thats a
forsure...its better to extend them your love, thank them for being apart of your life expearence, and let them move on. You can always connect by remembering them.   
Without getting rid of all these bodies in Haitis villages and cities, there will be a far bigger crisis. Remember, there just bodies. There not individuals nor do they have a life force.
Joe

Thomas, you said a most beautiful thing:  "You are the angel someone is waiting on today."  I will treasure that.

I don't know a lot about the Voodoo religion(s), but I did hear a piece on NPR in the last week or so about their beliefs.  Some of it sounded very much in tune with the Monroe/Moen/TMI and Thomas Campbell views of the universe, including the connectedness of all beings, the afterlife and even the fact that inanimate objects are alive in their own way.  So much more tuned in than the "dead world" of our western religions and worldview.

I want to thank all of you who have done such compassionate work in Haiti this past week.  I'm not there yet to be able to help as you are doing, but someday.

Lucy/Hawkeye,

just wanted to add a couple of points to this stream of thought.  A book that reveals some of the darker side of Haitian Voodoo is "The Serpent And The Rainbow" by Wade Davis.  There are other sources but they use Africa more as a source of that type of activity.

And yes Hawkeye, there's not a heck of a lot of difference between a hollow heaven subtly controlled by Voodoo practitioners and Fundamentalist Protestants.  Or fundamentalist anything really.  Souls stay in these bst's out of ignorance and fear until they are ready to leave and then their thought/yearning/light becomes apparent to helpers (either astral helpers or folk like us, projecting) and they are given what they need.  But that doesn't mean a helper won't have some kind of face off with those who see themselves as 'defenders of the faith'/righteous gatekeepers.  I've 'been there/done that' a few times now.
Memories of the Iran earthquake a few years back: thought i put up a post on this but can't find it now, but i do recall having arguments with other retrievers over the issue of encouraging those whose families had all passed (or mostly passed), leaving them as 'sole survivor', to just leave their bodies while sleeping and be reunited with their loved ones.  Other retrievers thought it was terrible/sacrilegious that I would suggest such a thing, and indeed some of the 'survivors' couldn't leave their deeply religious views behind long enough to even contemplate the possibility.
My dictating belief was/is that the physical and astral planes are in reality "one", and that all this drama concerning the endless passage to and fro between them is highly overrated, almost always as a result of religious indoctrination.
I could sell that as something more than a belief, as some kind of cosmic truth, which i really think it is, but i know that for others it can be no more than a belief.  Yet another belief.

cheers for now:  gordon







hawkeye wrote on Jan 22^nd, 2010 at 1:30pm:

Lucy, I know with me, I dont see their life energys lying around with the dead bodies. So going into a mass grave is an unlikely place for what I have been doing, retrieval wise. More often than not, the life energy is stuck in the immediate area of where the traumatic happening occurred. In the day care. Or the home, or on the street. Wherever. Most cases they are thinking they are still alive, but confused about the situation . Sometime continuing to try to live a normal sort of life. Sometimes in fear. Many stuck in the grips of their dying expearence. Pain and all. As for the practice of voodoo. I dont have any concerns at all. Just because other people dont understand that belief system, doesn't make it wrong or bad. A lot of people think the same about Christianity, or Islam to. Or, or, or. Just because they may believe or practice in "Voodoo" doesn't mean their going to some sort of hell, or that its wrong. That's Christianity's thinking. "My God or no God". In the end, all religions are just beliefs. None better than the other. In my way of thinking, I believe it better for them to move on to a Voodoo area of the BST's than being stuck in between, not knowing their body or the phyical is no longer accessible for their use. At least they have a much better chance of moving forward from Voodoo heaven or Voodoo hell. (Even if that is through the back door at some point.) It is unfortunate that they are getting buried in mass graves but it is the necessity in order to control the spread of diseaseand save the living. Some feel a need to hold dead bodys in some sort of esteem. Putting them in the ground, in an area where they can return time and time again to grieve over them could in all actuality hold that passed person back from moving forward. For me, (not everyone) thats a forsure...its better to extend them your love, thank them for being apart of your life expearence, and let them move on. You can always connect by remembering them.    Without getting rid of all these bodies in Haitis villages and cities, there will be a far bigger crisis. Remember, there just bodies. There not individuals nor do they have a life force. Joe

I think the exterior or image of many different religions have been used by politicians & power-possessors to try to control the population of a country; vodou & Haiti aren't unique in that way.

I sometimes think people may fear vodou because it came from Africa and that women hold real positions of spiritual power within it. Some folks may have conscious or unconscious issues around people of color, issues around women being powerful and being leaders. It also doesn't help that the western image of vodou comes from horror movies & books. I'm not sure if anyone here has any preconceptions coming from outside yourself that have influenced your viewpoint.

I'm no expert on vodou. I'm not a devotee. I do have friends that are mediums and priestesses. I've gone to many healing ceremonies and celebrations over the last 3 decades.  My experience has been positive. Of course your experience might be different.

My deep gratitude to all y'all that have been making efforts to help in Haiti.

Hawkeye another story on BBC included an ionterview with someone who works at these disasters, sorry I don't recall the agency, but she disputed the idea that the bodies have to be buried right away to prevent disease; she said that isn't really true. Though I imagine the smell would be overpowering. It would probably give many people closure to know for sure their relative died and was buried in a particular place. I guess I wondered if the ones who had died were attached to the idea of needing to bury the body properly. But it makes more sense if they are stuck at the place where the trauma occurred.

I don't know what vodou thinks of the afterlife. I don't think that classic movie "Black Orpheus" is a way to get info on this.

Not much difference between the physical and the astral, well that's an interesting view. The idea takes some ...guilt...away from the time I prayed that a woman might just die. She was injured in a bad fire, but the worst part was, all of her family died outright, all her children, while she lingered here. Then she too died. Maybe she just neededthe right retreiver to come and visit her in-between.

Hi,

It seems that phazing into a retrieval situation bypasses beliefs such as voodoo. At least I tried phazing for that purpose.

My previous phazed retrievals just happened  and were over before I could give them much thought. This time I wanted to plan it out ahead. (I think I saw a voodoo film when I was about 13 and its scariness stuck with me.) That was incorrect to do but I didn't realize it yet so I decided that the energy at my third eye might be perceptible to the lost souls.
I approached them as though I had a flashlight.  :-? :-[ I even wagged my head back and forth thinking that it could seem like a searching beam of light. Also when I sensed coming near to a body I called out to them-- hola! bonJour! Hello!
I sensed more than saw the heavy angled slabs and crumbling clutter of concrete. For some later ones I was surrounded by lighter-weight debris.

Phazing prooved very efficient. It only took a few moments to rouse them, also a brief statement that the way is cleared for them to exit, then I sensed the Helpers' energy move with them upward.

When my HS said we were done for now, it added that my dramatics were not necessary. The level of the victims' consciousness that was roused understood its situation because it was unburdened by belief structures.

As Spooky said elsewhere, interactions by phazing are not as personally satisfying as astral retrievals. They're faster and more efficient instead.

Bets

Friends, hi, I have found the post re my experiences in the Iran Earthquake of 2004,- it's in the Archives, page8, called "Iran Quake: notes Jan2/2004"

best, gordon phinn



gordon phinn wrote on Jan 26^th, 2010 at 12:20pm:

Lucy/Hawkeye, just wanted to add a couple of points to this stream of thought.  A book that reveals some of the darker side of Haitian Voodoo is "The Serpent And The Rainbow" by Wade Davis.  There are other sources but they use Africa more as a source of that type of activity. And yes Hawkeye, there's not a heck of a lot of difference between a hollow heaven subtly controlled by Voodoo practitioners and Fundamentalist Protestants.  Or fundamentalist anything really.  Souls stay in these bst's out of ignorance and fear until they are ready to leave and then their thought/yearning/light becomes apparent to helpers (either astral helpers or folk like us, projecting) and they are given what they need.  But that doesn't mean a helper won't have some kind of face off with those who see themselves as 'defenders of the faith'/righteous gatekeepers.  I've 'been there/done that' a few times now. Memories of the Iran earthquake a few years back: thought i put up a post on this but can't find it now, but i do recall having arguments with other retrievers over the issue of encouraging those whose families had all passed (or mostly passed), leaving them as 'sole survivor', to just leave their bodies while sleeping and be reunited with their loved ones.  Other retrievers thought it was terrible/sacrilegious that I would suggest such a thing, and indeed some of the 'survivors' couldn't leave their deeply religious views behind long enough to even contemplate the possibility. My dictating belief was/is that the physical and astral planes are in reality "one", and that all this drama concerning the endless passage to and fro between them is highly overrated, almost always as a result of religious indoctrination. I could sell that as something more than a belief, as some kind of cosmic truth, which i really think it is, but i know that for others it can be no more than a belief.  Yet another belief. cheers for now:  gordon hawkeye wrote on Jan 22nd, 2010 at 1:30pm: Lucy, I know with me, I dont see their life energys lying around with the dead bodies. So going into a mass grave is an unlikely place for what I have been doing, retrieval wise. More often than not, the life energy is stuck in the immediate area of where the traumatic happening occurred. In the day care. Or the home, or on the street. Wherever. Most cases they are thinking they are still alive, but confused about the situation . Sometime continuing to try to live a normal sort of life. Sometimes in fear. Many stuck in the grips of their dying expearence. Pain and all. As for the practice of voodoo. I dont have any concerns at all. Just because other people dont understand that belief system, doesn't make it wrong or bad. A lot of people think the same about Christianity, or Islam to. Or, or, or. Just because they may believe or practice in "Voodoo" doesn't mean their going to some sort of hell, or that its wrong. That's Christianity's thinking. "My God or no God". In the end, all religions are just beliefs. None better than the other. In my way of thinking, I believe it better for them to move on to a Voodoo area of the BST's than being stuck in between, not knowing their body or the phyical is no longer accessible for their use. At least they have a much better chance of moving forward from Voodoo heaven or Voodoo hell. (Even if that is through the back door at some point.) It is unfortunate that they are getting buried in mass graves but it is the necessity in order to control the spread of diseaseand save the living. Some feel a need to hold dead bodys in some sort of esteem. Putting them in the ground, in an area where they can return time and time again to grieve over them could in all actuality hold that passed person back from moving forward. For me, (not everyone) thats a forsure...its better to extend them your love, thank them for being apart of your life expearence, and let them move on. You can always connect by remembering them.    Without getting rid of all these bodies in Haitis villages and cities, there will be a far bigger crisis. Remember, there just bodies. There not individuals nor do they have a life force. Joe

I heard a bit of an interview on vodou today on, of all places, a radio show called "Speaking of Faith. " Vodou is a bit different in practice than the Hollywood version we have been given. Here's a link to the radio show if anyone is interested:

http://speakingoffaith.publicradio.org/programs/2010/vodou/

It sounds like the cosmology of vodou is, in part, not too different from what we discuss here sometimes. Life doesn't begin at birth and doesn't end at death. Actually the part about all the different entities sort of reminded me of all the stories of the ancient Greeks of all the different gods. (I wonder if they were polytheistic on Altantis....)Anyway, as the guy said, Haiti is 60% Catholic, 40% Protestant, and 100% vodou. I liked the part about the slaves hiding the diferent gods behind the identites of Catholic saints to fool their masters.

I heard that "Speaking of Faith", too, and thought it was wonderful. A "VooDoo"priest spoke at length about the beliefs, and it seemed rather like my own. I am a healed Presbyterian pantheist nature worshiper. In any case, it vanished the last vestige of fear about it I had and I went in again to see what there was to do. It seems that just as on this side of the Veil there was an unusually generous outpouring, there was much doneon the other side to handle the huge numbers. But there are still many in need of those of us who can get their attention, and I would urge you to keep up all the great work. I have found that those who remain are almost uniformly awaiting rescue, which you can provide. It is interesting to "see" many guides encircling these "people" trying to get their attention, but they seem to be listening too hard for the rescuers outside to see these guides. Often just getting them to stand up, or move a bit, or sing, or whatever, is enough to break their blindness. Suddenly they see their guides, and you, too, and nothing more is needed. It's just that easy sometimes. Expect that it will be, and so it is.

Good Retrieving! Give it a try.

Thomas