Doc M said: <<Seraflush (Sorry, B2 and OOBD started this and like B2, I couldn't resist - you  can call me DorkM), what if i told you that the focus levels, as described were a belief system unto itself, and not real discreet stages?  What if I said, as I did in a recent thread that Focus 27, the most popular idea of heaven where all is possible with thought ( the summerland described in other NDEs) is really just an initial way station for people not yet ready to leave their earthly ways (and so, in itself a hollow heaven)?

These questions come up in exploring.  And rather than quote Bruce's or Monroe's books, or TMI, we should be writing down our own experiences and comparing notes.>>

Hi Doc: This is worth exploring. BM doesn’t actually give a definition of a Hollow Heaven… but, from the text of the material it is clear to me that a Hollow Heaven is a location between focus 23 and focus 25 (they don’t exist in this restrictive form above those levels because of the nature of the astral density quotient… i.e… the density of the astral levels determines the kind of barriers that can be created by the mind… it is all in the vibration rates… so in the Hollow Heaven… the masterminds of the Heavens can create restrictions that must be adhered to by anyone who vibrates in that belief systems parameters… once you begin to change your vibration… you start slipping out of phase… sometimes you get into confrontations with the masterminds of the Heaven and they banish you… they believe you are cast into darkness… in reality you are being helped to higher levels…

The Focus 27 holding areas are is not Hollow Heavens… it is a place to shed your Earthly… attachments and discover your potential at which time you are free to do whatever it is you choose… you are not banished, you are not told what to do… you make your own choices…

That is my personal take on it.

S.

Hi Seraphis,

I started a thread on this about 3 months ago.  Basically, I call a hollow heaven "hollow," if it is populated by a group of like-minded individuals who may be very good people but whose belief system misses the mark of love that the inner heavens are made of.  So good people who are fundamentalists (christians, jews, muslim, doesn't matter), and follow the letter of the law without knowing the heart of the law, sometimes hang out together, perpetuating their shared beliefs,  but still willingly separating themselves (perhaps unknowingly) from God.  I think Bruce tells a story of a retrieval in a hollow heaven where a couple are told that they can not marry, though they truly love each other.  They begin to question the belief system they are in, and the lack of love or fear based dogma.  At some point, they phase out (as you mentioned), realizing that there is a higher love, and they are being held back. 

I haven't decided about the summerland (focus 27).  Bruce describes not the abandonment of human desires and traits; quite the opposite.  Discussions with famous philosophers, scientists, researching past lives, creating houses and material like objects just by thinking it - in some ways, Focus 27 is sort of the ultimate playground for human beings who are attached to the physical world and being human.  This is why, I say that while I'd love a holiday there, I'm not so sure how long I'll stay.  The shine wears off when you can do virtually anything.  And where is your love in focus 27?  If I build wonderful houses for myself, mansions, or indulge myself in debate with Einstein and Freud, is it not a type of self indulgence?   How does activity like that show love of God and love one's fellow man? 

No, in the end, Focus 27 is truly a way station, designed to let us indulge in human excess until we realize there is a higher love.  So in some ways, in qualifies as "hollow" to me, though admittedly it is more advanced than the communities that follow only the letter of the scriptures without love at all.

Matthew

Perhaps Matthew the idea of building Mansions and such places shows God's love for us and the desire that while we have toiled in C1 for things that we were meant to have all along G.O.D. has a greater plan in store. I believe that Focus 27 is the planning ground for making C1 eventually a heaven in the physical. Just a thought.

DocM wrote on Dec 4^th, 2009 at 9:06pm:

Hi Seraphis, No, in the end, Focus 27 is truly a way station, designed to let us indulge in human excess until we realize there is a higher love.  So in some ways, in qualifies as "hollow" to me, though admittedly it is more advanced than the communities that follow only the letter of the scriptures without love at all. Matthew

Hi Matthew: Just getting caught up after standing down for a while to get my new "Interpreter" organized. :D

Anyway, here is another take on Focus 27 and beyond. Light! once you get to Focus 27 you have the potential to become a "Lightbody" that is the highest you can go and still have a form... when you become or can take on the "Lightbody" you can safely get to the Emitter and the Aperture... there you can make a decision to cross over to the other side of the Aperture or not. Below Focus 27 light is used to show you the way out... but, you are not "light".

S.

Seraphise

A few Qs for ya:

What source did you hear that it is possible to become a "lightbody" once in focus 27? 

What is the purpose of changing to a lightbody, other than getting to the Emitter and Aperture? 

Is everyone in focus 27 made aware of the option to become a lightbody?

What are the other options besides becoming a lightbody?

What is on the other side of the Aperture? 

Where does the Higher Self fit into the lightbody and Emitter/Aperture idea?

Thanks!

Greetings all.

   Since I don't remember any conscious visits to F27, I can't offer any personal understanding of which concept is true and which is a misinterpretation. However, through meditative experience and extensive study of all beliefs over the years, I have a belief that I'm most comfortable with.

   I believe that the physical universe is but one plane of existence, while the focus levels are higher planes of existence. Here is an excellent webpage that describes what I feel is the closest understanding to what is true:
http://www.michaelteachings.com/7planes.html

   If Focus 27 is one of the planes of existence, then I wonder which category it fits best? I tend to think it is in the Akashic Plane. Please read the above link and let me know what you think. Thanks.   :-)

Ralph

I Am Dude wrote on Dec 8^th, 2009 at 2:20am:

Seraphise A few Qs for ya: What source did you hear that it is possible to become a "lightbody" once in focus 27?  What is the purpose of changing to a lightbody, other than getting to the Emitter and Aperture?  Is everyone in focus 27 made aware of the option to become a lightbody? What are the other options besides becoming a lightbody? What is on the other side of the Aperture?  Where does the Higher Self fit into the lightbody and Emitter/Aperture idea? Thanks!

<<OBD asks: A few Qs for ya:

What source did you hear that it is possible to become a "lightbody" once in focus 27? >>

Hi OBD: Unfortunately, Moen in company choose not to have index’s for serious researchers… and I can’t give you the exact location in the moen’s quadrilogy… but… there is a retrieval in one of the books of a woman who bedeviled her husband after dead… Moen retrieved her and she was ask whether she wanted to become a light\ being… she did and was through out the rest of the quad… a lightbody helper… I think this is as high as you can go without winking out into “the aperture and emitter”.

S

<<OBD asks: What is the purpose of changing to a lightbody, other than getting to the Emitter and Aperture? >>

Becoming light is as high as you can go… I don’t think there is anything higher except possibly “nothingness”

Figure this out OBD and you will have the answer: What is the sound of one hand clapping.  LOL!!!!!!!!

S

Hi OBD: Who do you think I am OBD?? Bruce Moen!!! Or Robert Monroe… LOL!!

The way I understand it everything below “lightbody” is subject to influence by outside forces… more powerful minds etc… Light is the creative essence…or more accurately the creator of everything... out of which everything in the universe is created.

On the other side of the Aperture according to Moen’s experience are angels and God his-own-self (ghos is my input not moen’s) but Monroe speculate so in Ultimate Journey.

High Self: If you mean the Oversoul… it is just below The Eternal Self (my Yogic terminology)… re- read Moen’s Cosmograph on “Curiousity”. The Higher Self is attempting to understand and experiencing the Universe… it sends out probes… again re-read the Cosmograph… “Curiousity”
S.

I Am Dude wrote on Dec 8^th, 2009 at 2:20am:

Seraphise A few Qs for ya: What source did you hear that it is possible to become a "lightbody" once in focus 27?  What is the purpose of changing to a lightbody, other than getting to the Emitter and Aperture?  Is everyone in focus 27 made aware of the option to become a lightbody? What are the other options besides becoming a lightbody? What is on the other side of the Aperture?  Where does the Higher Self fit into the lightbody and Emitter/Aperture idea? Thanks!

Hi OBD: Satisfied now??  ;D

Seraphis1  :-? Sun God of the Temple of Isis  8-)

Hi

Isn't a lightbody just another way of referring to the non-physical above the lower belief systems? We are of the light once we shed our lower, more base beliefs ( I thought.)  ??

Bets

betson wrote on Dec 9^th, 2009 at 12:55pm:

Hi Isn't a lightbody just another way of referring to the non-physical above the lower belief systems? We are of the light once we shed our lower, more base beliefs ( I thought.)  ?? Bets

Hi bets: Not sure what you mean... "Light" is everything except that which is nothing at the same time... its the paradox...

meditate on this:

O Thou of Noble birth, listen without distraction... These two... your mind which is wholely without substance, your mind which is vibrant and luminous are inseparable... this is the whole body of truth of the Buddha.

(modified extract) The Tibetan Book of the Dead

Figure this out and you will realize yourself ... LOL!!!!!!

Seraphis1  ;)Sun God of the Temple of Isis 8-)

My own take is that light is associated with shedding of earthly elements and getting closer to God, which means becoming one with love, love of God and love of others.  The more a soul gravitates toward love, the brighter their astral form.  The more a soul gravitates toward self-centerdness or, worse even, hatred, the uglier and darker it becomes. 

Many NDEs (Howard Storm comes to mind) report meeting loved ones who were so bright as to be seen as made of light.  That is my take on it anyway, that this appearance comes from shedding of our egocentric selfish ways and having our inner nature be naturally more loving. 

There is also the matter that we are really formless thought, and we only THINK we need a body for a vehicle.  Thus, some amorphous light body beings may have passed by the stage where they require a physical humanoid appearance, knowing that this was just another way to hold onto earthly things.

Robert Bruce has a different take on a light-body, and I read one article in which he was said to have been "constructing" one on his OOB adventures.  Apparently, once "finished," it would make the transition to death almost seamless (according to the article/quote I read).  Not sure if he really said/wrote that, but to me, its a bit too much. 

Our post-mortem state is solely dependent on our physical lives, and how loving we become.  The idea that I would need to construct a light body prior to my physical death seems off base (missing the point), even funny in a way, to me.


Matthew

DocM wrote on Dec 9^th, 2009 at 1:55pm:

Robert Bruce has a different take on a light-body, and I read one article in which he was said to have been "constructing" one on his OOB adventures.  Apparently, once "finished," it would make the transition to death almost seamless (according to the article/quote I read).  Not sure if he really said/wrote that, but to me, its a bit too much.  Our post-mortem state is solely dependent on our physical lives, and how loving we become.  The idea that I would need to construct a light body prior to my physical death seems off base (missing the point), even funny in a way, to me. Matthew

Hi Doc: So how do you think The Facilitator (Robert Monroe's visitation) maintains his immortal physical existence?

S.

We all are immortal as points of perception or consciousness, but for most of us, the agreed upon laws of nature, cause us to shed our physical bodies, after a time.  I think an immortal existence on earth could be one of the loneliest, most difficult existences, since for most we would be closed off from the higher planes of love, and everyone we knew would cycle through and die.........

Perhaps the facilitator has a unique love that makes him want to be incarnate a long long time.  Its hard to say.  Perhaps Monroe ate a bad sausage that night too, and there is no facilitator other than Peptobismol.

Matthew

DocM wrote on Dec 9^th, 2009 at 2:58pm:

Perhaps the facilitator has a unique love that makes him want to be incarnate a long long time.  Its hard to say.  Perhaps Monroe ate a bad sausage that night too, and there is no facilitator other than Peptobismol. Matthew

Hi Doc: He said it was a challenge as I recall. Being 1800 years old and not eating or sleep, driving taxi's, tending bar and being a professor in some university would be taxing for me... so you don't believe this is possible, hey! How about Yogananda's Babaji... he's the avatar of the planet. ;D

S.

Anything is possible.  Extreme longevity is possible, I will grant that.  Why anyone would want to stay in the physical world for eons, when there is a natural spiritual progression, shedding of the body and earthly self-centered ideas, is a mystery to me. 

In some ways, extreme earthly longevity can be a hindrance to spiritual progression - from everything I have heard, read or experienced.   Or as Billy Joel sang:  "only the good diiiieeee young, only the good"


Doc

DocM wrote on Dec 9^th, 2009 at 4:08pm:

Anything is possible.  Extreme longevity is possible, I will grant that.  Why anyone would want to stay in the physical world for eons, when there is a natural spiritual progression, shedding of the body and earthly self-centered ideas, is a mystery to me.  In some ways, extreme earthly longevity can be a hindrance to spiritual progression - from everything I have heard, read or experienced.   Or as Billy Joel sang:  "only the good diiiieeee young, only the good" Doc

Hi Doc: Well, if Babaji "IS" the Avatar of the planet then that is his job to remain in place for the duration of the planet's existence... he seems to enjoy his job from what I read.

S.

Seraphis

Sadly I am quite disappointed in your answers.  I thought that maybe you knew something I didn't know, but it seems your theory is just speculation based on Moen and Monroe's ideas, which I am well familiar with.  I don't expect you to have the level of knowledge that these two explorers do, but I half-expect you to have a good understanding of what you are talking about.  But maybe you do and you're just holding out. 

How does one acquire this "lightbody"?

I know what the Oversoul is and it's purpose.  What I'm asking you is how does it fit in with your theory of the light body. 

From my understanding from Monroe's experience, he communicated with Source at the Aperture/Emitter, and Source was displeased that he did not bring "gifts" for him, or in other words, he wanted Monroe to be joined with his Higher Self/Oversoul, each incarnation's experience being the "gifts," and he could only pass through once he came back with his Oversoul. 

So on the other side of the Aperture are angels and God... what does one do once there?  (In all honesty, I don't expect you to know this, but it seems to be a big part of your belief system, so you should know this, right?)

Dude the light body goes back to the days when "A Garden of Finhorn" was popular reading and it's about acquiring a light body here on earth. They also believe that all the other planets are inhabited in different dimensions.

Dude, Seraphis may or may not be simply expanding on what is in the books - 'nuff said, after that, but he could still have the discussion about those things. 

You seemed to be on good terms with Robert Bruce.  Perhaps you could ask him his own take on "constructing a light body,"  from what I read (my last two posts) it was pretty far out stuff.

For me, I don't like someone else's terms or classifications if I can try to explore.  I believe the entrance into the highest heavens happens following the path of love - with spiritual evolution.  Is this a belief system inside me - yeah, I guess it is.  But in rings in a resonance with what I see as real.  Thus, I don't focus much on focus levels, apertures or emitters, etc., though I'm fascinated to see how another (Monroe) perceived it all.


M

I Am Dude wrote on Dec 9^th, 2009 at 4:56pm:

Seraphis Sadly I am quite disappointed in your answers.  I thought that maybe you knew something I didn't know, but it seems your theory is just speculation based on Moen and Monroe's ideas, which I am well familiar with.  I don't expect you to have the level of knowledge that these two explorers do, but I half-expect you to have a good understanding of what you are talking about.  But maybe you do and you're just holding out.  How does one acquire this "lightbody"? I know what the Oversoul is and it's purpose.  What I'm asking you is how does it fit in with your theory of the light body.  From my understanding from Monroe's experience, he communicated with Source at the Aperture/Emitter, and Source was displeased that he did not bring "gifts" for him, or in other words, he wanted Monroe to be joined with his Higher Self/Oversoul, each incarnation's experience being the "gifts," and he could only pass through once he came back with his Oversoul.  So on the other side of the Aperture are angels and God... what does one do once there?  (In all honesty, I don't expect you to know this, but it seems to be a big part of your belief system, so you should know this, right?)

Hi OBD: Sorry to be such a disappointment to you... but a Guru I am not... sorry... you'll have to find another leader.

S.

I Am Dude wrote on Dec 9^th, 2009 at 4:56pm:

Seraphis Sadly I am quite disappointed in your answers.  I thought that maybe you knew something I didn't know, but it seems your theory is just speculation based on Moen and Monroe's ideas, which I am well familiar with.  I don't expect you to have the level of knowledge that these two explorers do, but I half-expect you to have a good understanding of what you are talking about.  But maybe you do and you're just holding out.  How does one acquire this "lightbody"? I know what the Oversoul is and it's purpose.  What I'm asking you is how does it fit in with your theory of the light body.  From my understanding from Monroe's experience, he communicated with Source at the Aperture/Emitter, and Source was displeased that he did not bring "gifts" for him, or in other words, he wanted Monroe to be joined with his Higher Self/Oversoul, each incarnation's experience being the "gifts," and he could only pass through once he came back with his Oversoul.  So on the other side of the Aperture are angels and God... what does one do once there?  (In all honesty, I don't expect you to know this, but it seems to be a big part of your belief system, so you should know this, right?)

Hi Dude: You asked the wrong questions... if you had asked me of my personal visit to the Aperture and the emitter I "might" have told you about it.. or if you wanted a description of my Samadhi experiences I may have or may not have shared it... but I already did share one Samahdi experience.... but this forum is not a place for whatever it is you are trying to find out because I don't know what you do or do not know... this is very advance material and the foundation material is extensive and if there are any gaps in your background you won't get it anyway... but, in the end no one can lead you... nothing we can say on the forum will make much of a difference relative to what one is capable of experiencing... and that is the long and the short of it...

S.

Seraphis

You're not a disappointment to me.  I was just hoping for more experienced-based answers  I'm not looking for a leader.  Rather, I'm looking for new/different perspectives.  I was hoping you could offer me your point of view, but I sometimes find it hard to get a clear understanding from you.. especially when you back up your point with pages from a book and avoid questions.  I asked you about the Aperture/Emitter, and would have loved to hear your experience of it, but instead you just told me about Monroe's and Moen's experience. 

Doc

I'm with you on not getting too deep into another's classifications and terms.  I'm determined to discover the truth on my own.  I also believe that what's most important is that our inner being is focused on love.  This is much more important than focusing on the technicalities of the nature of our greater reality.  I feel that if we are beings of love, the details of everything else will be made known to us when we are ready- but these are secondary to love.