When I meditate I place a candle in the meddle of my table.then I place my hands on both sides of the candle.my hands are palm to palm,one on the left side of the candle,and the other on the right side of it.As I began to meditate my hands start to move toward the base of the candle.1 inch at a time.when both hands reach the candle,they wrape around the base.now remember I dont move my hands,they move on there own.After a while my hands start to move back to where they started.They then rise up to shoulder leval,and move toward each other,untill they join togetter palm to palm,and stay like that untill the meditation is over.Any opinions on what is making my hands move in this way.What is this telling me?George

That is Christ's love, George, moving your hands.

Actually, it looks a lot more like Patrick Swayze.

george stone wrote on Nov 10^th, 2009 at 8:05pm:

When I meditate I place a candle in the meddle of my table.then I place my hands on both sides of the candle.my hands are palm to palm,one on the left side of the candle,and the other on the right side of it.As I began to meditate my hands start to move toward the base of the candle.1 inch at a time.when both hands reach the candle,they wrape around the base.now remember I dont move my hands,they move on there own.After a while my hands start to move back to where they started.They then rise up to shoulder leval,and move toward each other,untill they join togetter palm to palm,and stay like that untill the meditation is over.Any opinions on what is making my hands move in this way.What is this telling me?George

b2 is some kind of jokester... but, when I was a budding yogi years ago, I, meditated and I felt myself rotate 45 degrees right... at the time I had no idea what that was all about... now I know it was my fundamental energy body rotating... if I had hemi-sync at the time I would have gone o.b.e. and by now I would have been in a class with Bruce Moen... alas it wasn't to be... nothing changed until I had my NDE on Jan 7, 2007... then everything began to happen very quickly, tho I am still a long way from being in a class with Bruce... I'm working on it tho... Robert Monroe told me I was a member of his cluster, so, that is why I am being reeled in... we all have to be pulled in to achieve escape velocity...  Monroe claims he could not fall... he always landed about an inch from the floor... this may be a similar phenomenon George... are you sure it is your physical hands and not your fundamental body moving around...

Seraphis1

Yes I am sure,by I would not rule out my spirit moving my hands,even my whole body will move if I just think that it will.I think my spirit is telling me not to worry about death because I have this other body inside me that lives on after death.George

Seraphis


Quote:

nothing changed until I had my NDE on Jan 7, 2007

I'm interested to hear your NDE!  Maybe you could make a new thread about it. 


Quote:

Robert Monroe told me I was a member of his cluster

I'd also like to hear the story behind this!  Good idea for another thread perhaps...

I think it is also interesting that Bruce Moen has repeatedly stated that he rarely has had classic OOB experiences.  His method, the imagination technique is best described as shifting the focus of concsciousness and then making observations.  I have not heard Bruce, on this board talk about or concentrate on classic OOB astral travel. 

Sometimes, there is an assumption that because Bruce was associated with TMI and Monroe that they had the same experiences.  To me, Bruce's genius and techniques lie in the fact that unlike his predecessors, he does not require that you leave your body to travel in a different vehicle.

Think about that.  Monroe had OOB experiences without trying to (this started his journeys).  Robert Bruce's methods center around getting out of your body.  However, Bruce Moen realizes that consciousness is independent of the vehicle.   Thus traveling OOB is no more valid than phasing or shifting awareness (his method).  This focus on various astral bodies is, to me another belief system, albeit an exciting one.

In our most basic state, we are points of pure perception, independent of any body (astral or physical).  If we choose to explore this by creating various vehicles to travel in - so be it - whatever floats your boat.  Bruce's method is by far easier, because he focuses on consciousness itself, not the so called vehicle.  But remember, a key factor in spiritual growth is love.  And vehicles have nothing to do with love.  So I advocate exploration with that in mind.  Otherwise, you miss the forest for the trees.


Matthew 

Excellent Post Matthew, excellent. Speaking of being in Monroe's Disc. I think I would word it that Monroe is my disc. I don't know why but somehow the opposite makes it seem that Monroe has some power of you. If you're in it, it's yours.

Yours,
Beau

[quote author=0E2529074A0 link=1257897949/6#6 date=1257924724]I think it is also interesting that Bruce Moen has repeatedly stated that he rarely has had classic OOB experiences.  His method, the imagination technique is best described as shifting the focus of concsciousness and then making observations.  I have not heard Bruce, on this board talk about or concentrate on classic OOB astral travel. >>

Hi Matt: I am not really an authority on OBE and Phasing and Imagination techniques… I was raised in the OBE school, then as a graduate of TMI – Gateway and Guidelines I am using phasing, but, in the Wave I through Wave VI discs… there is a lot of obe work… so isn’t it just a matter of what works for each individual?? In an interview [on utube (sp???)] Monroe says he really can’t explain the difference… only that after obe’ing conventionally, one day he discovered phasing or clicking… I can give you an example… I am a thoroughbred handicapper… in the early days I learned very complex math to calculate speed… after a while I could look at the numbers and make a fair educated guess without all the complex math… tell me this in the Voyage series when Bruce meets Denise, Tony and the others in the TMI diningroom to do the crystal ritual… you are trying to tell me they are not obe!!??? ..i.e..  astral bodies at TMI and physical bodies in their respective homes???   :o

Seraphis

<<Monroe had OOB experiences without trying to (this started his journeys).  Robert Bruce's methods center around getting out of your body.  However, Bruce Moen realizes that consciousness is independent of the vehicle.   Thus traveling OOB is no more valid than phasing or shifting awareness (his method).  This focus on various astral bodies is, to me another belief system, albeit an exciting one.>>

This is something I “know” something about…i.e… it is something that became a “known” to me…

Firstly, there are three people who need Nobel prizes: Monroe for Hemi-sync, Robert Bruce for one of the soundest theoretical explanations of obe mechanics, and Moen for the sound theoretical description of the Hell’s and Hollow Heavens…

When I first read Robert Bruce’s Astral Dynamics and Mastering Astral Projection in 90 days he claims to have “FELT” his way through all the energy systems, node by node and personally mapped them… I was very skeptical of such a claim… then one day I felt my fundamental energy body shift very subtly and I knew it shifted… wow!! I realize Robert Bruce was telling the truth… you can feel and describe the fundamental energy body… then one day I felt my expanded energy body expand… wow!!! Eureka!!! I have found it!!! I feel the truth of Robert Bruce’s practical theoretical genius… then, came the Real-time-zone energy body and finally the astral body just like he wrote the mechanics of the soul work… that is now a “known” for me… not for you!!! But a “known” for me.

That’s my story and I am sticking to it.

Seraphis1

<<But remember, a key factor in spiritual growth is love. 
And vehicles have nothing to do with love.  So I advocate exploration with that in mind.  Otherwise, you miss the forest for the trees.


Matthew  [/quote]

Pure Unconditional Love is the goal we all must be able to experience and project… Love is the Sum of the Law and Love surpasseth Understanding.

Thus Spake Seraphis1 ~ Sun God of the Temple of Isis  ;D

I think of it more as a rule than a law. A ruler is something you measure yourself by...at for me.

What is this?I started of with meditation,and you changed to a new subject.Why not stay on what I started.If you want to start another tread,do it with another topic.George

Sorry, George, sometimes threads tend to spin out on different tangents.

Back to you, though.  The most important thing is that you know that you are more than your physical body.  The fact that your hands move on their own during meditation is interesting, but I'm not sure there is only one explanation for this. It may be that you are doing these movements on a different spiritual plane, and that your physical body is responding in kind.  Hopefully, it is you doing the moving, as in general I don't like uninvited guests.


M

Thanks for putting up with us, George!

I think the physical body is spiritual, George, and that it really 'likes' movements which are flowing and beautiful and which embrace the beauty surrounding it. There are certain movements of the body which are universal -- we see them everywhere. I think there is a reason for this, and I think you are just listening to your own inner nature, George, when your body moves in this way. Have you ever tried playing some music and doing dancing movements while you are feeling 'the spirit' within you? I find that, within a dance, we feel the unity between ourselves and the world around us, and we are joined by the powers that exist in the entire universe. That is, if we would like to do this.

HEy George,

When I meditate, I lay on the bed, I put the souls of my feet together and  let my legs drift open. Sometimes I also turn my palms upward and then Plug in some R.E.M. and go to town.

beau.you are funny,almost to funny.

george stone wrote on Nov 11^th, 2009 at 2:41pm:

What is this?I started of with meditation,and you changed to a new subject.Why not stay on what I started.If you want to start another tread,do it with another topic.George

Sorry George... first lets get to the bottom of what you call meditation... what school are you following?

Seraphis1

I have my own meditation.I pray to god and the holy spirit.I pray for people and I pray for health of mind body and spirit.Is this not enough.am I being clear about this.Do you meditate? George

george stone wrote on Nov 12^th, 2009 at 12:00am:

I have my own meditation.I pray to god and the holy spirit.I pray for people and I pray for health of mind body and spirit.Is this not enough.am I being clear about this.Do you meditate? George

Well George there is your answer... technically you are not meditating in the classic sense you are praying therefore your subconscious reflex is to take the general belief system attitude of prayer, which is to have the hands together in supplication... Q.E.D.

There are many specialize schools of meditation and they all have very specific goals...

Seraphis1  8-)

Well if my way of meditating is not good enough for you,so be it.George

George, why so defensive? Doc was simply pointing out that what you are doing is not called meditation in any circle of meditation training. There are many different paths and way to do meditation. Here's a good website to learn, and some free binaural beats as well for meditating.

http://www.project-meditation.org/

George, what you were doing is meditation. Don't let people upset you with the lingo around here. They are just trying to help but they don't know you.

If I gave the impression that I don't respect your process, what you do and think spiritually, I apologize. I do know you from the board for many years here, so I joked a bit. But, perhaps that is deceiving, to joke. I know you are a spiritual being, and that you do meditate, and perhaps I should have respected you a bit more, now that I think about it.

George,

Your meditation is quite good enough for me. I smoke cig and then lay back on the bed go through my motions. Yeah, I use REM but come on could it be more obvious way? They will break down your barriers maybe if let go. It's almost like hypnotism in a way but I truly trust them.

Hi Gang: George asked us to explain why his hands moved to the prayer position... we answer and he doesn't like our answer... that is the long and the short of it. We love him anyway.

George perhaps your hands are conscious too and they have there needs, just like you. I wouldn't sweet it, uh sweat that is.

ouiRone
Beau

boue,have you ever asked for something in meditation?Well I did.I asked for healing,to heal people.I heard a white noice like when you turn on a radio,and then I heard a voice saying,do not be afried,what you have asked for,you will recive,and I did get the power to heal people,even a woman with m.s.for 15 years she could not walk.after she was healed she just got up and walked around.George