Tom Campbell says in "My Big TOE" that early in his work with Bob Monroe he gave up ingesting all mind-altering drugs, including alcohol, and soon abolished from his diet food additives, preservatives, caffeine and sugar.  He reasoned "that subtle natural effects might be washed out by the impact that these substances had on consciousness.  I was right - the difference was dramatic."

To those with experience in exploring nonphysical matter reality, do you follow Campbell's practice?  Have you found a difference in your abilities and experiences depending on what you ingest?  I'd be interested in what connections you've made between what you eat and drink and what you experience. 

Perhaps we can set aside the intentional mind-altering drugs that have been recently discussed on this forum, since I'm really interested in the everyday things.  I enjoy the occasional glass of wine or margarita and the daily coffee and too-frequent sugar hit.  Do I have to choose between those pleasures and nonphysical reality exploration?  Of course, I'd probably be physically healthier if I gave up all those things, but......

It is often said that highly processed foods, and also white flour and white sugar, can be problematic. (And unhealthy anyway.)

Monroe never followed a diet that I'm aware of, but Campbell is very clear about what he thinks. I have battled with it. It is true that when I lay off of that stuff my mind is stiller during meditation, but the difference seems to not so great ultimately. I wish he had not been so blunt about it, but I know it's his experience. I found that when I took all that stuff out of my diet there were some good things happening in meditation but it doesn't seem to make a difference so much in the quality of my total experience. Some say you should avoid sex too, but I have to admit I am most relaxed after that and the only thing I think that was hindering me was the idea that I shouldn't be able to explore as well after indulging in any of this that we talk about. I try to limit coffee to the mornings. I have cut way down on sweets, though the holidays are coming up and my girlfriend has taken up baking now. I think it's your mind set, but Campbell believes the best clarity comes from a clean system and he may be right but so far that hasn't really been my experience with it. It has more to do with what I think. For example I slipped up a few times while trying Campbell's approach and forgot about it and had great sessions, then later remembered I had slipped, so my jury is still out on that for the most part.

I guess it's because to me it seems that once you are out of phase with the physical why would your body so greatly influence what you are doing. That's where I am with it right now. And I've read a lot of AP'ers say that diet makes no difference for them.

Then again maybe I am just lazy. ;D

Yours,
Beau

Hi,

Many published OBErs state that a pot of coffee is a daily requirement.  And many Western monasteries had vinyards so I assume wine never hurt any trends toward mysticism inside those walls.
I've heard a slightly acid diet is important.  Maybe it was Jason here who explained that.

At our house we've cut way back on meat but get weak if we don't have some beef occasionally. I do best with afterlife explorations when I've had alot of fruit. I think personal adjustments are necessary since we each have different bodies to care for.

Bets

Yeah I agree Bets. And remember too, Tom Campbell only has his body to go by. What he says makes sense but so far it hasn't proven itself out for me that I need to be that stringent in my diet, but then I haven't made the headway Campbell has either. He eats like a bird.

For the most part I agree with TC. What affects the consciousness of the body does seem to make a difference as far as clarity is concerned. It's the preservatives, additives, antibiotics, pesticides and other chemicals that we consume, not necessarily the type of food itself.

I eat mostly organic foods including some meat and dairy, however for the most part I prefer fruits, berries, vegetables, nuts and grains. Occasional/limited amounts of wine/beer/coffee doesn't seem to bother me. I occasionally make cookies, brownies or other desserts from scratch so I can control the amount and/or type of fat, sugar, salt, and other additives and it doesn't seem to bother me as long as I don't eat too much of it or eat it for several days in a row.

You can eat a lot of food as long as it's the right type. This time of year I love hearty vegetable soups with grains like brown rice or barley and homemade bread. Vegetarian pasta casseroles and pizzas are a favorite with my grandkids, too. Even when I make one pizza with meat, it's always the vegetarian ones that disappear first.

Kathy 

Everyone is differant and others will come up with many answers to your question about food and drink. As I can only speak about my personal experiences...With me, heaver meals make it "harder" for me to enter into the meditative state. This includes meat, bread, fish, pasta, salad.. among all other foods. Eating with reasonable moderation is my key. I don't believe you are required to give up meat of any kind. Although some would venture to oppose that thought. I would say it is important to eat sensibly. When it comes to drugs and booze, well I have to admit I have had plenty of experience with both. I have quit drugs completely now. I mean the kind you buy on the streets. After attending TMI the first time, and experiencing a connection with "All", I just didn't feel the desire any more. I still drink wine and beer. Every once and a while I will have booze. For me, I find remembering my experiences more difficult when I drink heavily or heavier. Again, moderation for me is the key. If I plan on deep medatation or directed medatation, I just don't bother with that glass of wine as I want to expearence all that I can, and remember all if I can. If someone tells you that you cant have one or the other, drugs or booze, just remember that you control your experiences, not them. (Not that there are not those who would just love to control your through.)

What I've heard about diets, people are too different to have only one perfect diet plan. The best would be, to choose fruits and vegetables, and something like bread, spaghetti, rice etc. Most people then would still remain hungry, so add olive oil. Then many people still feel it's not enough so they'll have some meat.
Heavy meals will put you to sleep. Too light meals, in my experience, cause sleep problems.
   Meditations, especially when new to it, should by all means done with the total absence of alcohol and any other drugs known as altering consciousness. After a while of practicing meditation you can drink some beer, because you'll immediately know THAT and HOW it alters your consciousness.

I'm not convinced that a very "pure" diet (meatless, organic) will show much results without altering the whole way of living.

Spooky

Well, we keep creating the reality we feel is the "right" one, and that includes things like food. Hardly anything in our culture is so confusing as anything to do with the word "diet". Help. Instant brainstorm. I'm not ready for all that purity. I love to splash in life's mud puddles, the more the better sometimes. When I was young I used to fast for days and days with no problem, but now that I am older and I have that very common ailment, insulin sensitivity, not diabetes but just a problem with cells all plugged up with "sugar" in some form, which often leads to diabetes, I try to be much more conscious about sticky buns and stuff, which I ate when I was tired or stressed when younger, but I no longer am interested in the level of purity I was when younger. Hey, I am knockin' on heaven's door at almost 66, and I can't wait to be 18 again. Life is complicated. I do lots of things that interfere with my purity, but I still get golden light in meditation and do Reiki with huge energy pouring out of my body, and am practicing a new set of skills- Silva - which I don't know much about yet, but it does work with light trances. It's all huge enjoyment and makes life so enticing. Still, it would be great to see my waistline again. On the other hand, when I had that desirable shape, all I did with it was get into trouble. I get into a lot less trouble nowadays! And noting Beau's comments about the relaxing effects of sex, well, I can't depend on that anymore either!! In my experience (says she), meditation is mercifully detached from a high degree of purity in eating...though drinking is another thing of course. On the other hand...you can't get too much fibre...at any age. Now THAT is something that can really play havoc with meditation and energy work...common old constipation. Gotta get that fibre. And lots of green leaf vegetables...they feed the nervous system, keep you out of the fridge. Constant hunger is often down to not enough green leaves. Iceberg lettuce doesn't cut it, so hamburgers don't work. Anyway. I am not qualified to write about nutrition. Just my own messing about with it. Vee

Beau wrote on Nov 5^th, 2009 at 9:36am:

Monroe never followed a diet that I'm aware of

Hey, Beau.

I think Monroe did later on. In either of his two latter books he mentioned he became intolerant of things, had health problems, etc. I think this might have been indicative of a change to his body chemistry. Something you hear about associated with "higher vibration". If this phenomenon exists, you expect it to happen to Monroe, whom you clearly can watch grow and take ownership throughout the course of his books.

Quote from "Far Journeys":


Quote:

For example, I had become painfully (literally) aware that my body has taken to rejecting chemicals. This includes alcohol, prescription drugs, caffeine, and evidently anything else my body says is unnatural for its operation. The rejection or allergic reaction takes the form of profuse sweating, vomiting, and/or severe abdominal cramps.

This was only the severe stuff, I wonder if he felt discomfort to some minor degree to other stuff. But imagine having the urge to vomit every time you ingest caffeine!

Well, going off alcohol and caffeine completely would be a big dietary change for most people I know. It was not voluntary, but this is what Monroe's body told him what its needs were.

Be well

Thanks O,

I have read Far Journeys but I had forgotten that passage.  I do remember someone on the board here discussing Monroe once and saying he had a terrible diet, but perhaps that was before the intolerant stuff began. I guess I always had this impression of him munching Ding Dongs then laying back and exploring the new worlds, but I couldn't remember much about his diet. Bruce Moen didn't seem to go into  a lot of dietary detail either ...that I can remember.

You're welcome. :)

Monroe had a history of declining health, and even had to undergo surgery without anesthesia because of these intolerances, IIRC. Later on he was almost forced into doing the retrieval work on his own past selves. I don't remember the wording, but it seems like it was also motivated by his health... *shrugs*

Be well

I agree with those who state that it is best to avoid the additives, preservatives, etc., the main idea being to eat food close to its natural state. Fresh fruits and vegetables will 'brighten' you. Everything in moderation. I feel uncomfortable about eating meat and seafood, these days, and have been an off and on vegetarian in my life. However, that is really a personal choice, and there are many considerations, ethically, so it is not such a simple matter. I don't believe in strict rules, but that variety is the spice of life. In general, the fresher the diet the more energetic is the result, for me. The more cooked (comfort) and 'mixed' types of foods, such as casseroles and various well-cooked foods, have a sedating effect on me, a calming effect. So, I say just really pay attention to how you feel. If you are not eating the right foods you will feel less energy in general, and you may tend toward more depression. At least, that is my experience. Regarding how it affects meditation, I have never noticed any differences except that the body needs to be able to relax, which it cannot do if it is too uncomfortable, hungry, full, or polluted. Regarding drink, well, I don't think meditating after drinking alcohol is such a good idea. If one is attempting to find mental clarity in any way, alcohol is not helpful. Other drugs, well, that is a personal thing, in my book. I simply repeat that if one is attempting to clear the mind, to have the purest view, it's best to have a clean body in all ways. That's just my opinion, and I don't live up to it very well these days, having spent long periods of my life in a much 'cleaner' state than the one I inhabit now. Learn from what you do. Experiment and learn from it. It can only help you. There are other considerations besides food and drink. I feel that there are certain practices which are 'clearing' which can amplify the effects of the body's initial state of 'readiness' to let go and meditate fully. Such as hot baths. A pleasant and soothing environment. Certain music, at times. Silence, at times. Enough quiet room and time to think. All things work together, of course, and we all know that.

Yes, I resonate with that, b2. Hot baths, soothing music, and so on. I once read somewhere, forget who said it, that a lot of insanity is caused by not enough music...maybe an exaggeration, but it made me think. Music is more important than we guess. Did you read about the prisoners somewhere in the world...was it Thailand? I can't remember that either...who were made to participate in mass dance lessons and experienced huge changes in behavior and attitude as a result. If that's the case, then there are surely things that influence our ability to settle down and meditate. Vee

ROMC wrote that both her and Bob loved to go off to town and dig into a big old burger. (She preferred hers with cheese.) Later, after consultation with her helpers, she was convinced to eat a more healthy diet. It was suggested that more natural foods were the best as you would then be consuming more natural energy. Also that animal protein from beings more connected with the earth (ground) like pigs, beef, and the sort made it more difficult for her to explore. Foul and fish, perhaps being easier to digest, better. She was not told not to eat beef or pork, just to moderate her consumption and to eat healthier. It was also explained to her how thanking the provider of her food was nessassary. Both plant and animal. Both being equal.

If I remember correctly Rosalind Mcknight's book Cosmic Journeys states that it is best to not eat meat, but if you do, eat fowl and fish.

If you eat meat of animals that were raised in cruel conditions (a common occurence) you might pick up some negative energy.

If you don't eat meat, you need to make certain that you get enough Vitamin B12.  Quinoa is good because it has all 8 essential amino acids and is gluten free.

My meditation teacher, who teaches in the Sant Mat tradition, advocates only vegetarianism, including not eating eggs. I say the proof is in the pudding (pun intended). Try different things and see what happens.  I've been vegetarian for 8 years now, and eggless for 2. No animal flesh, foul, or fish.  The Inca brand red quinoa requires no rinsing and is easy to make as well as delicious.

There are various disputes about B12, but it probably won't hurt to take a sublingual B12 anyhow.

I attribute all my spiritual breakthroughs to the McDonalds near my church.  Every day, I begin with their Sausage McMuffin value meal.  Recently, I've been feasting on their new Angus burgers with 2 apple pies.  This meal always sends me into an altered state.  If there had been McDonalds in Jesus' day, I'm sure He would have been a regular.  Fast food leads to the fast track to spiritual growth.

Don

:) Fast food, the Holy Grail of spirtuality....what a concept! Yes, Don, I can see him there, once or twice. There are people to love everywhere, no matter what they are eating, right?

Awe, come on Griffin, you didn't find it just a teensy tinsy little bit funny?

It's deer hunting season here in Virginia, and soon my wife and I will get out there with our .243s and hopefully bag our limit.

Fresh venison is a real delight, much better than processed food you get a fast food places.  Healthier as well.

R

That's so sweet, Griffin. I can feel the love. :)

wrote on Nov 6^th, 2009 at 8:19pm:

That's so sweet, Griffin. I can feel the love. :)

It might seem strange, but I feel it too!

God Bless Strange Love!

Yeah, Strange Love, that's my favorite kind....I can fly on that for a while, I think...thanks!

Love is strange. It's why it's so familiar.

Hello Stranger!

And a great big hello to you!

Don is right.  Ever have the McChicken?  It's like Jesus on a bun.

These food trends, other than the ever-popular fast food, offer all sorts of alternatives.  We have the recent slow food trend; and we know we all need to slow down.  The raw food trend; think of all the energy we could save by never cooking anything.  Organic, of course; at least we can avoid some of those additives, preservatives and other chemicals.

I did enjoy Michael Pollan's books, Omnivore's Dilemma and In Defense of Food.  They certainly force one to think differently about what we eat and why, the why being very much driven by the political and industrial agricultural forces.

I thank all of you for your thoughtful comments in response to my initial inquiry.  Well, at least until this thread degenerated into a bit of giggling and hostility.  But there's always room for both, I suppose.

I must have been on a forum hiatus when this thread was written as this subject, within a holistic framework, is a particular interest and focus of mine.

  I have mixed feelings about this subject because i know if the right awareness and intentions aren't there, info related to such "outside" issues like this can easily become dogmatic and thus limiting in nature. 

  It's a pretty relative issue in some ways. I would start off by saying that no diet or lack of diet will or could ever directly make one more spiritually intune or less so.  That is done solely by our intention, desire, motivations, and via our ability to choose.  Basically how we treat and relate to fellow humans impacts this process the most.  This is summed up in one of Yeshua's sayings about, "it's not what goes into a man's mouth, but what comes out, which defiles him."   

But his teachings also have to be taken into context, he was talking to people at the time who were largely nearly obsessed with outer ritual and dogmas, some of which involved what to eat, what not to eat, what to wear or not, having to wash ones hands and feet, etc.  These rules, rituals, and dogmas unfortunately became more important than the heart and Spirit aspects of their beliefs. 

  This is still a potential issue for many people, BUT we also live in a very different time than this past cycle in some ways--particularly as to the extreme toxicity of our physical environment nowadays.   Hence, paying more attention to physical health becomes almost a necessity in these extreme and in many ways--unnatural times. 

  Diet and health lifestyle choices can have what i call indirect effects.  When we eat consistently healthily, exercise rightly and sufficiently, etc. our conscious connections to our more subtle consciousnesses often becomes clearer if the intention is a more constructive than not one. 

   From experience and guidance, i agree wholeheartedly with outer sources like Rosiland McKnight's guidance, Edgar Cayce's guidance, and Tom Campbell's information.

   But as Spooky astutely noted earlier, such outer changes have to be consistent with inner changes otherwise they won't have much impact in and of themselves. 

  But as "Ah So" and Rosie's general guidance noted in her book Cosmic Journeys, because of the law of Like attracts and begets Like, often when we become more spiritually intune within from making the necessary inner changes, living ethically and lovingly in relation to others, etc. we start to become more automatically attracted to healthier and more life promoting diets and general lifestyles.  I have noticed this trend in my own life pattern.

  In other words Creative Life consciousness promotes/begets and attracts the same or similar.  I don't find it an "accident" for example (there are always exception to the averages or "rule" though), that many  people that i have met who has struck me as unusually spiritually intune either ate very little meat compared to the average or no meat.  Why?  The Spirit or Consciousness within when awakened to a certain point, starts to reject the heavily fear laden emotions and energies that so permeate meat.  This is a very dense/slow vibratory consciousness and does not mix with or attract the fast vibratory consciousness states of love, compassion, being ethical, etc. 

  Before i start another post about foods etc., i will take a self centered moment to explain where i am coming from in this whole diet and health lifestyle thing, as it is a bit ironic if you could read my Soul history.  I've become an "expert" in this from the mistakes i've made.

   I come from a "past" (another life) of having been more consciously aware of guidance than most during the period when my other self/i lived, but this self was a more passive channel in some respects.   But he was a communicator.   

  He had very poor health and lifestyle choices for the most part.  He ended up suffering plenty physically for it, but worse than that was the knowledge that his service to others was negatively impacted by his poor and selfish choices in this area. This service was very much important to him.   His guidance told him a number of times that he needed to clean up his diet and health lifestyle act, that it was necessary if the information was to come through more clear and holistically accurate.  He didn't tend to listen too well despite that his service activities were important to him.  I think deep down he did know better, but his selfish and slow vibrating aspects in these areas were stronger than his ideals.  Sometimes he even used spiritual teachings or concepts to justify these strong material-emotional attachments.   How easy it is to delude self at times, especially when half truths are there!   

   After he transitioned from the physical to the nonphysical, he became more fully and clearly aware of what his guidance was trying to explain to his stubborn and not particularly listening at times self.  So, he realized a change or balance was necessary, rather our Disk/Consciousness essence realized this and voila here is one of my main karmic paths in life to attempt to redress this imbalance.

   My astrological chart shows both these themes in various repeating manners.  It shows the past focuses etc. symbolically, and it also shows what i am to work on primarily in the present life.   It is quite amazing how much it encodes or indicates about this.  Perhaps not surprisingly, i've developed some health issues and dis-ease in this life as a way to force me to pay more attention to these aspects of attuning.  In hindsight, i am thankful to and for these suffering conditions as they were the necessary catalysts to make me balance myself and move into wholeness more. 

  My deepest intent and desire is to become a pure channel of Source & PUUL Consciousness.  That is what is most important to me in this life.  My primary focus.  That is very hard to do in a physical life without the necessary holistic balance that comes from perfectly coordinating the body physical with the mind/Soul and Spirit levels of self.

  Diet etc:  Meat, particularly the meat from more emotionally developed and attuned animals like cattle, pigs, goats, deer, sheep, etc has been mentioned.  The primary reason for avoidance of this kind of meat has been mentioned which is primarily because when these animals are raised and go to the slaughter, and potentially to a lesser extent when hunted, feel a lot of emotional fear when they are dying. 

  If one feels one must eat meat of these kinds of animals, then the best kind is from animals who were not aware of their imminent death and of course who were in happier and healthier conditions.   

  Where i live, in the country of America, such meat is very, very, very rare and hard to find unless one goes out and hunts it or raises oneself. 

  Besides the consciousness and energetic issues, heavier meats just tend to be harder to digest in general.  The concentrated complex proteins take a lot of stomach acid to break down fully and properly, and tend to be hindered especially if amounts of starches are ingested at the same time.  These starches will prematurely neutralize too much of the hydrochloric acid necessary to break down these concentrated complex proteins. 

  Foul and especially Fish on the other hand, are not near as emotionally developed as the former mentioned animals.   There is a certain amount of fear experienced, but it's a more instinctive reactive automatic process of "get away now to preserve life", and less emotionally laden.   The former mentioned animals are closer to humans in how they experience and feel fear in a very emotionally powerful and laden way.

  But even then, it is not helpful to eat too much fish or foul too often and too consistently.  It still slows down the body vibrations, just not to the extent that the other meats do. 


  Generally speaking, the more natural, the more nutritious, and the easier to digest the food, the better it is for your body and the holistic balance of your consciousness system. 

  This precludes many preservatives, chemical additives (for the former especially artificial kinds), pesticides, overcooking certain foods or undercooking certain foods. 

  The best and healthiest food will also be the freshest and most locally grown food.  Food caries the vibratory patterns of the surrounding physical environment to some extent.  Hence, when you eat primarily food grown in your local environment you are harmonizing your body vibratory pattern with the surrounding area.  This facilitates greater balance.  Harmonization, then balance, tends to leads to opening up greater energy levels.   It's just the way this Consciousness system works. 

  Cooking in some cases is quite helpful and helps to make a food more digestible, but in other cases raw is better because the enzymes present in certain raw foods assists in the digestion/break down and thus assimilation of that food. 

  If you eat a lot of foods that need to be cooked in order to digest better, like legumes and the more hard, fibrous, and tuberous vegetables, then one way of makign this food more "alive" again is to culture or ferment it.   

  This makes it even easier to digest, often increases certain nutrients, and adds helpful microorganisms to your system which do a number of helpful things. 

  For example, i like lentils a lot, but even cooked they are not the easiest to digest food in the world.  So i do a couple of things which helps to change this.  Food i soak the raw beans at least overnight.  Then i cook.  Then i blend this up, and add fresh, homemade Kefir to it and i let the Kefir organisms work on it for a full day or two before i refrigerate.   It might sound like a lot of work, but really it's more simple and less work than you think, but it is more time involved in the long run. 

Not only does the lentils become easier to digest, more nutritious, but it changes the somewhat bland flavor of same and adds some interesting and more complex flavors. 

  Another general issue is the simple one of eating too much.  It seems that many people just eat too much food within a meal and throughout the day.  One doesn't have to be overweight for this to be the case. 

  A big thing in diet, which is mentioned time and time again in the Cayce readings, and to a lesser extent with Rosiland McKnights guidance is the issue of food combining. 

There are plenty foods that by themselves are fairly good for you and easier to digest, but when you mix them with very different food groups, this changes the digestibility because different food groups require different acids, alkalines, and/or enzymes, etc. to properly break down.   This is not yet recognized much in mainstream and medical based paradigms, but that is largely because these tend to lack the holistic perspective that understanding such things require.

  A quick example:  Most fruits are pretty easy to digest, nutritious, alkaline reacting, and generally healthy for you. 
  Conversely, most veggies are relatively easy to digest, often quite nutritious, alkaline reacting, and generally healthy for you. 

  But what happens when you eat both in the same meal?  On a basic level, they do not harmonize, but more materially speaking they are digested in different ways and at different speeds.  Most raw fruits are digested very quickly, and many veggies take a longer time.   

  Mixing these in the same meal puts a strain on the digestive system, and if your digestive system is already strained to begin with, chronic habits in these area will tend to lead to dis-ease or even disease of some kind eventually--especially if the body is not often cleansed and revivified by enough meditation-prayer, positive loving thoughts, acts, etc. 

  As mentioned by Edgar Cayce's guidance and confirmed through my own experience, the best combination of foods are vegetables with starches, vegetables with heavier or lighter proteins, fruits alone or with smaller amounts of lighter proteins. 

  The most harmful combination are heavy proteins with amounts of starches (especially more complex and harder to digest ones like wheat and some other grains), veggies and fruits,  starches with most sweets or fruits, heavier proteins with fruit and sweets, and amounts of sweets/sugars with amounts of fat/oil. 

  More specifically, some particularly harmful combos are Coffee with milk or too much sugar, Tomatoes non vine ripened in general or even if so when mixed with starches or heavier proteins, and citruses with milk and most starches.

  Food combination naturally leads us to the issue of the alkaline acid balance in the body and the extreme importance of same.  Yet another issue and subject that most mainstream and medically based paradigms don't look at or scoff at, but yet when people with developed cancer in the body have their ph levels taken via saliva or urine, it's almost always universally very acid polarized. 

  Edgar Cayce's guidance also spoke time and time again of the importance of the acid alkaline balance in the body. 

Generally speaking, much of the typical American and to a lesser extent general Western diet is acid forming in nature.  This might not be a problem if the basic body metabolisms weren't acid forming in nature, but they are! 

  Hence, generally speaking,many people would benefit from eating a more predominantly alkaline reacting diet. 

  But not is all as it appears on the surface with this whole acid and alkaline thing.  Take for example, the lowly but nightly Lemon tah dah.  Pretty acid in it's normal state primarily because of the large amount of citric acid in same.  You might think that it's a highly acid forming food... 

  But that same Lemon contains huge amounts of potassium.  Potassium is quite a negatively charged (very alkaline or high ph) salt mineral, and there is much more potassium than citric acid.  Under ideal circumstances when you ingest from lemon, your body neutralizes the citric acid and unlocks the potassium from it, and when all is said and digested, it leaves behind a predominantly alkaline "ash" which enters the blood stream as nutrition that is predominantly negatively charged. 

Now if you eat that same lemon or drink lemon juice with some dairy or starch or steak for example, then chances are the conversions are not done properly and the lemon remains acid forming. 

Generally speaking, most vegetables are alkaline reacting with some exceptions, most fruits are alkaline reacting with some exceptions, most starches are from moderately to mildly acid reacting with some alkaline or neutral exceptions, all heavier proteins like meat or concentrated soy protein are quite acid forming, most dairy is from mildy acid forming to slightly alkaline forming (with the exception of certain Cow dairy cheeses which are moderately acid forming), most lighter proteins like most legumes, nuts, seeds range from slightly acid reacting to slightly alkaline reacting, and most concentrated sugars are highly to mildly acid forming with some exceptions. 

  Back to the combination.  All of the inharmonious and difficult to digest combination lead to large amounts of acidity. 

Basically, the ideal healthy body is one that is slightly alkaline in nature.  Your body works very, very, very hard to maintain the very specific range of ph of the blood, but if you keep stressing and hindering that process and there is even a slight shift in that ideal ph of the blood, dis-ease, disease, and eventually death results. 

  Some get confused by the whole acid and alkaline balance because of not understanding the holistic nature of same and that we're talking the general body system and not every specific organ or system in same. 

For example, your stomach is supposed to be highly acidic, if it wasn't, it wouldn't be doing it's job.  We're talking chronic acid buildup in the tissues and fat of the body, which again can eventually lead to that super detrimental very slight shift in blood ph.  PH of the body is best measured through a combo of saliva and urine and in a very consistent sense. 

  If both consistently measure only very slightly acid, base/neutral, or slightly alkaline, then chances are your body is more or less ok. 

  Now another important factor.  Physical activities tend to burn acids.  So, the more physically active you are, generally speaking the more of an acid reacting/forming diet you can eat and really, one will tend to need.  Many acid forming foods have a lot more calories. 

If you are more sedentary and tend to use your mind much more than your muscle, then you will need a greater Alkaline reacting diet to maintain health and equilibrium. 

  Climate also matters!  The hotter and/or hot and humid the climate, the more alkaline reacting foods you need to eat.  They produce less "body heat" than the heavy proteins and certain starches like Wheat. 

   The colder the climate or rather the more exposed you are to actual colder climates and temps, the more acid forming you need to eat in order to maintain health and body balance. 

  The Eskimos need all that heavy protein and fat in their diet otherwise most of them probably wouldn't survive well unless they spiritualized the body more completely (like some of the Tibetans do more so). 

  For the average person is moderate, seasonal changing climates, it's obviously better to eat less heavier proteins and easier to digest foods like fruits and veggies and some starches in the Summer and the reverse in the Winter.  Spring and Fall are pretty much whatever floats your boat...err.. i mean circulates your blood.

  Ok, we've covered most of the important basic principles.

  Eating when upset in any way, or larger amounts right before or after any more vigorous physical activity tends to make a meal more acid forming than it normally would be.  Gentle and more brief walking, Tai Chi, or what not on the other hand facilitates the digestion-assimilation process thus facilitating a more alkaline reaction.

  Eating organically raised and processed foods is often better than the conventional kinds, but you don't always know what you are really getting and that shouldn't be an excuse to eat less veggies of fruits.  Most veggies will be fairly healthy for you whether organically or conventionally grown and processed.  A couple exceptions for some examples are peppers and strawberries,  high, high amounts of pesticide residues and better off left alone or in very small, infrequent quantities.

Where eating organic or completely naturally becomes uber important is when ingesting dairy, egg, and meat products. 

Reason being is that animals tend to live a longer time and consume more sustenance than does plants, and generally are very differently built than plants and trees. 

    So there is an accumulation of toxins such as pesticide and herbicide residues that build up more in those kind of animal based foods.  Particularly speaking, animals tend to store some of these toxins in their fat if they can't get rid of all of it.   Well most commonly consumed animal products contain a lot of fat.   There is also the issue that more animals raised in a conventional way tend to be much more mistreated than raised organically or especially in small, local or family type farms.  An animals happiness or lack, will affect it's byproducts, which will affect you either constructively or not depending. 

So, if you can't afford to buy organic or completely natural when it comes to such foods, then choose low fat or leaner versions, or better to go completely without.  But you don't want to choose completely fat free versions.  It is a little known fact that in digesting heavier or more complex proteins, there needs to be some fat involved to help out in the process and it's just easier for your body if it's already in the meal you are eating.

  This leads to the issue of fish.  Fish used to be one of the healthiest and more easily digested forms of concentrated proteins, but our chronic polluting of the oceans and seas has made fish fast becoming one of the most problematical food sources. 

  Like with land animals, fish tend to accumulate more toxins than their veggy counterparts. 

   Because of this issue, it's best to primarily eat the smaller types of fish species that are lower on the predator chain. 

  The larger fish species that live a longer time and/or eat many other smaller to moderate sized fish, like tuna, sharks, marlins, etc. tend to have the most toxin residues in their flesh. 

   Then there are some areas of ocean that are better than others.  But generally speaking, fish like sardines, anchovies, wild caught Alaskan salmon are usually your best bets.  Farming fish has also contributed to it's own issues, but there is a balance between the health and ecological issues to consider.  Generally speaking, eating and supporting farmed fishing tends to be less healthier and ecologically friendly, but in some cases it is more sustainable since so many wild fish are being caught at a faster rate than they can repopulate.

  Some of the most alkaline reacting, easy to digest, and/or nutritious foods are lemons, various melons, many "tropical" or exotic fruits, certain leafy greens particularly like collard greens, kale, chard, watercress, arugula, etc. as well as green juices from the various young cereal grasses like wheat, barley, oat, etc grass. 

  For starches and grains (some of these are actually more "seeds" though) some are quinoa, amaranth, teff, brown rice, millet, sorghum, well soaked and cooked whole oats (not any of the "rolled"), organic baked potato skins, spelt, kamut and similar non modern non overly bred wheat varieties (but these are best used in sourdough forms).

  For seeds and nuts, especially almonds, hemp seeds, cashew, pumpkin seeds, etc.

  For sweeteners/sugars less processed stevia, raw and minimally (large screen) filtered honey, barley malt, sucanat and similar less refined cane sugar, less refined beet sugar (very hard to find nowadays), brown rice syrup, molasses both from sorghum and cane, date sugar, etc.  All of these should be used very sparingly and less frequently.  If i feel the need for sweetness, i sometimes will mix some stevia with some of the less refined and more natural sweeteners above, but i've largely lost my addiction to sugar.  I suggest Tom Campbells info on the issue of sugar.

  For dairy:  Homemade, fresh real Kefir especially made from raw organic Goats milk and to a lesser extent  raw organic Cow's milk, Yogurt, some cheeses especially made from goat or sheep milk but some more aged raw cow milk cheeses are ok. 

  For fats/oils.  Primarily extra virgin coconut and olive oils are the best, but eating fresh raw avocados provides good fat, as well as some raw and/or cultured dairy products from organic milks are healthy in moderation.

 

  The issue of Alcohol is almost as complex, relative, and important as the issue of eating animal flesh. 

  Edgar Cayce's guidance often recommended a small glass of dry red wine a day, particularly in combo with dark brown type breads, as a health and blood building food. 

   He almost never recommended hard or refined liquors (except in some rare medical applications) and almost always said to avoid same, even rarely recommended beer.

  The exception to beer came as a particular combo wherein one takes non 'green' beer (meaning not raw or new) and takes a fresh raw egg yolk or two to mix in.  This was said to be a healthful and nutritious combo. 

  I've somewhat regularly used this combo over a few years now to good effect (and in strict moderation), but besides the above i also tend to use very dark beers (like stouts and porter types), mix in a pinch of say "real" salt, and i take most of the carbonation out of the beer.  I haven't once gotten sick with using the raw egg yolk in the beer all this time. 

  Cayce's guidance always recommended against carbonation in beverages, particularly highly carbonated beverages like soda and modern commercial beers.   Said it was rather destructive to the digestive system and body in general. 

  Mildly carbonated milk kefir, for example, will not be harmful though.

  The issue of alcohol is primarily one of intent and/or of attachment.

  Alcohol originally developed from two main reasons.  One helpful and practical reason of a way of storing extra grain or fruit without detrimental spoilage. 

But the other reason is the all too common escapism and altering ones consciousness issue.  This is the slow vibratory aspect of alchohol which when there is that kind of intent tends to both slow down ones physical, etheric, emotional, mental vibratory patterns AND at the same time attracts slower vibratory nonphysicals who will then attempt to enter into your energy fields to either to try to experience that state of which they were overly attached to when in physical, or the more malevolent and smarter ones know that this just provides an opening via weakening the various energetic connections thus allowing them to more easily influence you or disrupt/deharmonize your balance.

  Either way, it's always best to drink either with the intent of physical health in mind (like in that beer-egg yolk mix or small glass of dry red wine), or in careful moderation and not going beyond a light buzz. 

 

What to eat, what to say and what to do. Maybe it's easy to both overlook and get stuck in matters of the body. I've found that otherwise spiritually reasonable people get caught up in the fear that nature spirit somehow is/was oblivious to a food chain and how it works before embarking on that particular path. It's not to say everything goes as there is plain cruelty involved in some of the ways animals are treated making the way for meat to be piled onto plates. Three months of non-meat consumption didn't enable me to walk on water, fireworks didn't explode in the sky, nor did it provide the answers for everything. But it was very tasty. I've got a friend who's very affectionate and kind, but enter Yang the cat and there are no flies left in this house. Anyways, back to chasing him with a knife and a fork.

  The odd case of eggs.  Eggs, much like tomatoes were treated in a very relative and dependent way in the Cayce readings when talked about. 

  Like with tomatoes, only certain forms and conditions of eggs were said to be healthful and promoting, but when NOT in those specific conditions both were said to be rather destructive to health. 

  With eggs, these had to be very lightly cooked as in coddled eggs, or the raw egg mixed in with an acidic and/or alcohol beverage to sort of "pasteurize" it without actual heating (which negatively changes the cholesterol  fat in same), and contrary to popular practice today only the yolk was advised to be eaten because the white is very hard to digest and the yolk has most of the minerals and vitamins.

  Almost everything i've recommended so far, i've experimented with or observed myself.  I use to not be able to stand eggs, and even the smell of well cooked eggs bothered me.  Yet, i've noticed my body craves the raw egg yolk in beer mix.  When i eat eggs the way most people eat them, overcooked and with the white, i tend to get indigestion.   Yet no problem with the lightly cooked, raw and only yolk methods. 

  Culturing, sourdough proofing, and fermenting foods.  This has generally been touched upon already, but i would emphasize the usually beneficial transformative nature that these traditional methods have on various kinds of foods.  Specifically with grains and seeds, sprouting is also very helpful too.

    While i pretty much eat gluten free nowadays, i've noticed that my body can tolerate moderate amounts of say certain kinds and forms of foods with gluten like a well sourdoughed organic spelt or kamut wheat bread for example. 

    Even better is when i would make my own homemade sprouted and then sourdoughed organic Spelt and/or Kamut bread.   

   Many tend to see in more black and whites in various areas, and nutrition, health and diet is also a common area.  Some will say, you must eat completely gluten or dairy free to be optimally healthy..   

Well certainly helps if you aren't finding out the exceptions to the rule, or the ways around the common rules and averages. 

  Heck, not much of any of this will matter too much if say you come in from the most expanded consciousness levels and start off a super loving and aware kind of person to begin with and maintain that consistently and in a disciplined way via various manners like much meditation, prayer, etc. 

You pretty much, could on average, throw most of all this advice out the window because your consciousness is so fast vibrating, coherent and powerful that it constantly keeps your physical vehicle vivified with creative life vibrations... 

   But very, very few are such people, and so it's better to err on the side of caution. 

   I guarantee you that most of us if we started to more holistically apply these various health principles in a more consistent way, will notice definite improvements in the clarity of mind and emotions, as well as nonphysical perception, which will tend to lead to better freewill choosing and general expressing and relating to others.   

  Even Yeshua, despite his teachings to the overly dogmatic Pharisees, etc. like "it's not what goes in, but comes out of the mouth", etc., practiced some of these more outer "props" at times like fasting.  I also have a hard time believing he was a voracious meat eater growing up, though i think he did eat some flesh here and there (particularly fish).

  But like i brought up earlier, he didn't have to contend with the super extreme and overly toxic environment, food, and food processing that we have to. 

  They didn't have preservatives back then beyond salt, sun-air drying and natural fermentation acids.  They didn't add unnatural chemicals to their food.  They didn't grow with toxic pesticides and herbicides. 
 
  They weren't surrounded by plastics, various polluting factories of all kinds, nuclear power plants and radiation issues, etc., etc. 

  They didn't tamper genetically with the plants and animals beyond simple breeding strategies.

  They didn't sit around at cubicles, computers, video games, tv's, and other overly sedentary activities.  They tended to be MUCH more consistently physically active (because they had to be). 

    As far as food and our environment goes, we live in a very extreme, in some ways very imbalanced, and unique cycle.  To keep a better physical balance takes all that much more awareness, discipline, and focus. 

The benefit of keeping a better physical balance is that it opens up more potential for various nonphysical activities and perceptions.  It clears and balances your mind and emotions.   

  When you really get into it and refine your process from listening to your inner voice, intuition or guidance, then you start to feel more and more physically alive, well, healthy, and this innately and naturally leads to better attunement spiritually and that all important balance between the body, mind and spirit. 

  But that's the important part, it's important to listen to your own inner guidance and intuition when it comes to this process for you who is a unique individual.   Everything that works for me, might not work for you and vice versa. 

   But at the same time, don't delude yourself, there are certain Universals involved too, which is why i went into depth about these general and more universal principles rather than prescribing a more set kind of diet. 

Volu wrote on Apr 26^th, 2011 at 4:00pm:

What to eat, what to say and what to do. Maybe it's easy to both overlook and get stuck in matters of the body. I've found that otherwise spiritually reasonable people get caught up in the fear that nature spirit somehow is/was oblivious to a food chain and how it works before embarking on that particular path. It's not to say everything goes as there is plain cruelty involved in some of the ways animals are treated making the way for meat to be piled onto plates. Three months of non-meat consumption didn't enable me to walk on water, fireworks didn't explode in the sky, nor did it provide the answers for everything. But it was very tasty. I've got a friend who's very affectionate and kind, but enter Yang the cat and there are no flies left in this house. Anyways, back to chasing him with a knife and a fork.

  As mentioned in several of my posts, one of my main points is that we live in very extreme, toxic, and unusual times when it comes to food, our physical environment, etc.

   This requires a bit of a different approach than in past cycles, because now it is so much easier to have ones physical vehicle become overly imbalanced.

  The more imbalanced the physical vehicle, the harder it becomes to be more active or perceptive in the nonphysical areas.

  Why?  Because your other various consciousness fields or levels have to spend more time and energy on constantly adjusting and taking care of the physical vehicle to keep it relatively normal functioning and alive. 

There are all interwined fields, the physical is not disconnected from the nonphysical aspects.  They are One system, but each level has different properties. 

The ideal is perfect balance between all levels.  This is why i stress the importance of at least certain general health principles. 

  This is probably also why Cayce's guidance, McKnight's guidance, and why people like Tom Campbell stressed certain health issues.

  If it had little or no importance, such more intune sources wouldn't spend much time or energy on the issue. 

One last post in "article" form.

  The odd case of an almost "spiritual food" in the Cayce readings.

"Mummy food":  On just a few occasions in the some 40 year span or so that Edgar Cayce kept record of his psychic readings, an individual was recommended to eat amounts of a special food combination called later by Cayce researchers "Mummy food". 

  In one particular reading, the person receiving the advice was told they were unusually spiritually intune body and that this particular food would be helpful to them, and Cayce's guidance said something like, "it is almost a spiritual food for such a developed body like this." 

  In another reading, it was said that some of the earlier Atlantean and Ancient Egyptian Priests and Priestesses subsisted largely off this particular food.  Inferred was that it possibly helped them to keep a better psychic attunement.

  It became known as "Mummy food" because Cayce had a repeating, progressive dream wherein he was in a room with a well preserved Egyptian mummy which started to come alive and asked Edgar to feed it this special food preparation.  (with the help of the resurrected Mummy, they interpreted the now recovered records supposedly kept in a secret, hidden chamber). 

  Some have theorized that this particular combo acts more directly as a food for and stimulator of the Pineal gland which is very related to what some call the Anja Chakra, the primary and immediately psychic perceiving Center. 

  While i have a lot of respect for the Cayce readings, and have first hand experienced the accuracy and helpfulness of much of the info, i don't necessarily automatically believe even this source on everything. 

  I started to have my own dreams and guidance messages telling me to eat this food.  Because it's a bit difficult and time consuming to prepare, and up until very recently i've had candida issues and needed to really cut down sugar and carbs in my diet, i haven't yet gotten to the point of consistently eating this particular food combo so unusually and highly recommended by Cayce's guidance.  Despite several messages to date. 

  The food preparation is simple.  Chop finely an equal amount of dried figs and dried dates, mix with just a little whole grain more course (and easier to digest) flour like cornmeal, buckwheat, etc, cook all this in water covered for about 20 minutes at medium low heat, and then when done add some goat milk.

  The dream that Cayce had which involved this food was quite interesting for a couple of reasons.  One was, that he knew it was in a future life of his, and two the dream started as a dream one morning, then picked up later when he came out of a reading, then continued the same way for two other readigns.  All spaced over about a week or so.

  Obviously it was a very important message to get across for him, or possibly future self. 

  The dream seems to symbolize him bringing back his Egyptian heritage of psychic and spiritual attunement in the context of this future life.  The Mummy ended up being a woman, which probably represents his psychically receptive Yin side.   Possibly the dream was saying that this food combo will play an important role in him opening up his future psychic gifts and perception, just as it played a role with some of the Children of the Law of One Priests and Priestesses from Atlantis and Ancient Egypt. 

Justin, Your delay in response to this post was Divinely timed to a fantastic synchronicity for me today. SO thank you for that.

I had just posted a response to someone asking about my trip to Egypt, (I climbed the Great Pyramid in 2000) then I popped over here to check new post . Multitasking as I did so, telling my husband that I am changing my diet to reset my hypothalamus (I just posted a blog post called The Future According to Me- in which I state that the pineal will be important for the Shift of higher consciousness as it is affected by electromagnetics)

My husband responded..."DO you like dates? I saw a show about how good dates are for you?" (Like on the news)

I almost said something like, "Yea, where are you talking me on a date?" But it was odd how he would ask me about dates out of the blue.

Then I clicked on your post about Cayce, Mummy food, pineal and dates and almost choked! Very cool. Needless to say, I gotta give it a try. Thanks Justin!

OMG! The magic of the Universe never ceases to amaze me!

Patti

pattiz wrote on Apr 26^th, 2011 at 6:23pm:

Justin, Your delay in response to this post was Divinely timed to a fantastic synchronicity for me today. SO thank you for that. I had just posted a response to someone asking about my trip to Egypt, (I climbed the Great Pyramid in 2000) then I popped over here to check new post . Multitasking as I did so, telling my husband that I am changing my diet to reset my hypothalamus (I just posted a blog post called The Future According to Me- in which I state that the pineal will be important for the Shift of higher consciousness as it is affected by electromagnetics) My husband responded..."DO you like dates? I saw a show about how good dates are for you?" (Like on the news) I almost said something like, "Yea, where are you talking me on a date?" But it was odd how he would ask me about dates out of the blue. Then I clicked on your post about Cayce, Mummy food, pineal and dates and almost choked! Very cool. Needless to say, I gotta give it a try. Thanks Justin! OMG! The magic of the Universe never ceases to amaze me! Patti

  That is too funny Patti!   :o

You're very welcome and glad to have obliged in being part of your synchronistic occurrence, but darn don't i wish i could be more conscious of these connections before hand.

   Funny thing was, is that i didn't know if i should post on this thread to begin with and i really hesitated.  Reason being that one it is quite old and two, it doesn't really deal too much directly with the "afterlife"...so i debated with myself for a bit, and then had the feeling, oh what the heck let's go ahead and do it. 

  P.S. it's interesting to me that Mummy food is primarily made with two fruits from trees.  This perhaps has some significance.  One, i've always had the sense that trees are particularly powerful and spiritual archetypes in the Earth. 

  Perhaps in being born from such majestic and potentially long living Beings, these are imbued with extra spiritual and powerful vibrations?

  Two, since they are fruits there is no invasive or harmful process involved in enjoying the "fruits" of Mother Earth with these. 
  Course, there may be more to it than both of these considerations, there just may be something in one or both of these that feed the Pineal.  I think i remember reading awhile ago that Figs have a lot of serotonin in them.

This is awesome info. Thanks Justin! :)

  Likewise thank you for expressing your appreciation Beau.  Btw, i was kind of half hoping that you would show up to the recent FL workshop so i could meet  you in person. 

   
General forum message:  Since it's not apparent, just wanted to mention that i started these recent postings back on the 2nd page. 

Justin,
Totally off this topic, but I was interested in how the workshop went this weekend.

  Hi Bardo,

  I wrote all about it on the section of the Forum for Worshops called "Workshop Connections".

Here is a link to that specific post:

http://afterlife-knowledge.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1303789288

  P.S. to the Mummy food post.  This is a fairly high sugar food because both dried figs and dates contain a good amount of sugar, and at first it might seem to contradict my earlier cautions about sugar or Tom Campbell's info on sugar. 

  So i wanted to go more into that.  Sugar is basically sugar, but not all sugar is created equally. 

  In my experience, the worst kinds of sugars for a body are the ones that are super simple, more refined and concentrated, and lacking in nutrition.  The worst of the worse is typical white cane sugar and similar kinds.  Sugars like these go very quickly and directly into your blood stream and so raise the blood sugar levels very fast and suddenly.  This overload really stresses the body in so many ways, such sugar is really a TOXIN for a body.

  Some sugars, for example raw and minimally filtered Tulepo Honey contain a better balance, with more fructose.  It doesn't spike one's blood sugar as fast or as extremely.  Your body is given some time to burn some of it off meanwhile (when taken in moderation).  Plus with honey you are getting some nutrition along side same. 

  Dried figs and dates are higher sugar fruits, but they and especially Figs contain a lot of great fiber.  When foods have a lot of fiber in them, the fiber tends to slow down the digestive and assimilating process some.  They are still quite easy on the digestive system though, which is one of their benefits.   Because of the fiber, the sugar in this food doesn't spike the blood sugar too fast or extremely, which is key in keeping a better balanced system. 

  However, if one is dealing with even moderate Candida Yeast (& other sugar/carb related) issues (as it seems many Westerners from technologically developed nations are), i don't recommend this particular food right away.  One should break their sugar addictions first and cleanse the system before embarking on eating this in a consistent sense.

  One common way to know if you have a candida yeast problem is too look at your tongue more closely.  If it is really pink with a lack of a whitish coating, you are probably good.  If there is a whitish or similar coating, you probably have an overgrowth of candida yeast which really makes your body crave sweets and more refined simple carbs, because that is the primary food of such potentially pathogenic yeasts. 

  Another way to tell is just simply if you have a strong sweet tooth as they say.  If you constantly crave more sweets AND refined carbs than is healthy, then you probably have an overgrowth.  One cannot completely get rid of this or other yeasts in the body...it's more of an issue of first reducing and rebalancing.  This process is beyond the scope of this thread, but if folks are interested and request it, i can start a thread in the Healing section of the forum.

Just quickly speaking, ingesting probiotics, severely reducing intake of sugars and carbs, and alkalizing the body are all extremely crucial in this process. 

Anyways, i suspect one of the benefits of this Mummy food, beyond whatever mysterious vibratory pattern or specific chemicals which may be found in them...

Is the simple fact that this is a food that really, really, really helps to keep one quite um..regular (all that beneficial fiber).   

  One of the physical reasons of why we age and lose our physical vitality (which leads to dis-ease of all kinds) is the lack of balance and optimization of our combined digestive--assimilation---waste excretion process (when imbalanced, this almost always contributes to acidification of the body). 

  Mummy food is both easy to fully digest and very nutritious, check, so it digests and assimilates properly, and this combined with the beneficial balance  and quantity of soluble and insoluble fibers it helps out in the waste excretion/removal process particularly via the colon and #2's. 

  So much of our ill health and lack of vitality relates to an imbalance in one or almost always more of these interdependent processes.  As a particular food and combo, Mummy food really helps out that process.  So the benefits of Mummy Food are really very holistic in nature.

Getting hungry for a nice grilled rib roast, preceded by a well made extra dry martini (shaken, not stirred, topped off with oil from lemon peel). 

I've found that blue cheese with rice crackers goes great with the martini, fyi.

R

  The importance of blessing, cleansing, and appreciating food before one eats it.

  I've been to long winded and pedantic lately, so i will keep this brief (or try at least to!  ;) ).  This is an issue that Rosiland A McKnight's guidance brought up with Rosie and Bob Monroe, as well as something i've noticed the importance of in my own life as well. 

  Basically it helps to ask the Creative forces to cleanse your food/drink of any negative energies and to increase the positive energies.  Also to sincerely give thanks to all that which was involved in bring the food to you. 

  All this increases the vibratory rate of the food.  It is one of the ways to help with the issue of eating the flesh of more emotionally developed animals like pigs and cattle.  It would seem that many Native American tribes knew this intuitively, which is why they often had a ritual around thanking the spirit of the Animal whom they had hunted, as well as the Great Spirit and of the Mother (Earth). 

  I did an experiment once which convinced me of the benefit of doing such things.  I bought at the same time from the same place, two heads of green leaf lettuce which looked very similar in freshness (as similar as i could find). 

  One head of lettuce i put in a specific part of the fridge and completely left alone.   The other head of lettuce i would take out each day and hold it in my hands and pray/meditate a bit, mostly expressing my thanks and appreciation to it and all that was responsible for enabling me to enjoy same.   I also asked the purely Creative forces to help me with cleansing and then strengthening the vitality of it. 

   Anyways, to summarize, the head of lettuce i left alone in the fridge wilted and went bad noticeably faster.  It started to go bad after about 4 days. 

   The other head of lettuce that i took out everyday and prayed over etc., stayed remarkably fresh looking, and even by the 9th day looked plenty edible to me.  After the 10th day, i was sufficiently impressed by the experiment so ended it. 


   I encourage you to do your own experiments and to see first hand what you get.  Remember, most of this process is about the feelings.  If you just mumble a few positive and appreciative words over the lettuce, it might help a little, but if you really open up to appreciation/gratitude and enter into a "holy" feeling space...this is where the real power comes in.  Also, really know, feel, and see it working. 

  I plan on using this same process to eventually consciously "manifest" so called physical objects out of consciousness.  Not something i am all that attached to, but would like to do it at least once.

While I don't doubt that a diet based around fruits and vegetables is both healthful for the physical body and in focusing consciousness, I think if people focus on this area too much, they miss the point and get caught up in yet another belief system.

Our consciousness transcends the physical body.  Therefore, while some diets may help or hinder our focus, they will not be the main factor or the only factor in deciding the path of our lives.  If thought creates reality, both in the physical world and the afterlife, then our thoughts are of paramount importance.  What we ingest is important but to a much lower extent.

Perhaps our ancient ancestors had it right in saying grace and blessing food before they ate it.  You see, in giving thanks, and saying a blessing for what you are about to eat, you essentially combine your positive intention with the ingestion of whatever the substance is.  Since your intention is much more important than the physical matter itself, the blessing or grace said before eating can mean a lot to your physical and spiritual health.

Masaru Emoto wrote of some interesting experiments with water exposed to positive or negative "intent" expressed by writing and thoughts directed at the water.  Extending this theory out to blessing our food before consumption only makes sense to me.


Matthew

DocM wrote on Apr 28^th, 2011 at 12:13am:

While I don't doubt that a diet based around fruits and vegetables is both healthful for the physical body and in focusing consciousness, I think if people focus on this area too much, they miss the point and get caught up in yet another belief system. Our consciousness transcends the physical body.  Therefore, while some diets may help or hinder our focus, they will not be the main factor or the only factor in deciding the path of our lives.  If thought creates reality, both in the physical world and the afterlife, then our thoughts are of paramount importance.  What we ingest is important but to a much lower extent.

  I agree, and have tried to stress similar a few times in this thread. Perhaps i didn't stress it enough in the overflow of info about the importance of a balanced, vital body vehicle. 

Holistic health (which involves consciousness considerations as well as physical) is a particularly strong focus for me because i come from a karmic past where he/we almost completely and totally ignored the health of the physical body and treated it more like pig sty most of the time.

  Hence, sometimes one extremity in one life, leads to an extremity in another life, but in the opposite direction to create a perfect balance eventually. 


Quote:

Perhaps our ancient ancestors had it right in saying grace and blessing food before they ate it.  You see, in giving thanks, and saying a blessing for what you are about to eat, you essentially combine your positive intention with the ingestion of whatever the substance is.  Since your intention is much more important than the physical matter itself, the blessing or grace said before eating can mean a lot to your physical and spiritual health. Masaru Emoto wrote of some interesting experiments with water exposed to positive or negative "intent" expressed by writing and thoughts directed at the water.  Extending this theory out to blessing our food before consumption only makes sense to me.

  Completely agree and very well summarized. 

O wrote on Nov 6^th, 2009 at 3:52am:

Beau wrote on Nov 5th, 2009 at 9:36am: Monroe never followed a diet that I'm aware of Hey, Beau. I think Monroe did later on. In either of his two latter books he mentioned he became intolerant of things, had health problems, etc. I think this might have been indicative of a change to his body chemistry. Something you hear about associated with "higher vibration". If this phenomenon exists, you expect it to happen to Monroe, whom you clearly can watch grow and take ownership throughout the course of his books. Quote from "Far Journeys": Quote: For example, I had become painfully (literally) aware that my body has taken to rejecting chemicals. This includes alcohol, prescription drugs, caffeine, and evidently anything else my body says is unnatural for its operation. The rejection or allergic reaction takes the form of profuse sweating, vomiting, and/or severe abdominal cramps. This was only the severe stuff, I wonder if he felt discomfort to some minor degree to other stuff. But imagine having the urge to vomit every time you ingest caffeine! Well, going off alcohol and caffeine completely would be a big dietary change for most people I know. It was not voluntary, but this is what Monroe's body told him what its needs were. Be well

  Wanted to say a few things re: Monroe as he is a good case study to look at. 

I find it highly interesting that when Monroe was working with the explorer Rosiland A. McKnight and her guidance in his lab way back when and for a number of years, the usually patient, loving, and gentle guidance team of Rosies at one point got quite stern with both Bob and Rosie about their lack of discipline and concern regarding their diets and general lifestyles in the health sense. 

  So much so, that at one point "Ah So" and her guidance team put their nonphysical feet down and said basically something like this *if you two don't get your act together with this stuff we're trying to get across to you, then we're not going to work with you in this manner anymore.  Tough luck, grow up.* 

My own experience is also that Guidance can be more stern and/or authoritative at times with important issues.   It's like grownups looking at an older kid in their antics, but one who should know better, and being like, "hey, stop messing around, you know better." 

  Because Bob and Rosie were more mature consciousnesses, they could handle more direct criticism. 

    I've looked at Monroe's astrological chart, read all his books, his two biographies, and some other books which mention him, and while this doesn't make me an expert by any means on him or his life, i can't help but get the sense that sometimes he was a rather stubborn and willful personality at times.  You should see the amount of Fixed energy he had in his chart, guy could be a mule sometimes. 

  What happens to overly stubborn/fixed people when they continue to refuse to listen to wisdom from both within and without? 

  They tend to get banged in the head with 2X4's by "life" if they are more spiritually mature, as Bob grew to be in his life.  As O noted from Bob's own writings, this very much is what happened to him. 

  His "body", or rather we should say the combo of his body and his Disk, couldn't get through to him in any other way, except to almost force him to clean up his act.  He hadn't really listened to Ah so and Rosie's guidance earlier.   

Hence the extreme reactions to everyday common pollutants like caffeine, alcohol, etc.

  What i find even more interesting is that the above thing with Bob is similar in some ways with what went on with Edgar Cayce.  He was also told by guidance on a number of occasions that it would be helpful if he lived much more healthily as to diet and exercise.  A couple time he was gently chastised and criticized for treating his Temple so poorly.  (Notice i used the word "Temple" and capitalized it.  There is a reason, the body is a Temple and should be treated with the appropriate respect and appreciation.)

  He was also stubborn and rarely listened or consistently followed this advice. 

  But here's the confusing thing.  People look at people like Bob Monroe or Edgar Cayce and they think, 'wait, if it's important to have a healthy lifestyle, and if it helps nonphysical perception and attunement, etc, then why did it not seemingly hinder these guys who ate so poorly, didn't exercise enough, etc.'

  Relativity my dear Watson.  These guys came in with some unusual developement psychically, and both probably had a lot of innate vitality and endurance to begin with, which gave them a certain amount of "wiggle room" or cushion in this area. 

   Also, having OBE's, and various other psychic experiences does not necessarily mean one is very spiritually intune.  There are some rather psychic people out there who are very immature spiritually.  I'm not saying this is the case with Bob and Edgar, but i've noticed a lot of people put these guys on some pretty high pedestals at times and sometimes confuse the psychic stuff with spiritual developement and balance. 

These guys were no Yeshuas or He/She's, not by a long shot.  Both of them, tended to experience a lot of deep depression at times in their lives.  Depression incidentally often comes from a combo of one's body being too out of whack physically and often not living up to ones spiritual ideals enough and being too selfish and/or materially attuned.

  These are not personal criticisms, nor am i fault finding.  I'm just trying to put things into holistic perspective.

  See, this is my question.  What if both of these guys really ate healthily, exercised, and did all the helpful physical stuff that helps clear and balance ones mind and emotions. 

  Just think how happy, powerful, clear, balanced, and accurately psychic these guys would have been if they had cared a lot more about this facet which they ignored. 

  All i can think is WOW  :o what a sight it would have been.  What level of helpers they could have been.  Think how long they could have lived and served.  It would have indirectly helped them get closer to that "He/She" level and expression.

P.S., though in his latter years Monroe did give up a lot of the more harmful food/chemical toxins because he had to or suffer the more immediate and extreme consequences, it's reported in both his biographies that he had a real sweet tooth till the day he died (was a sugar addict), and would have to sneak candys and chocolates so that his wife wouldn't see him, otherwise she would have expressed her unhappiness with it. 

  Also, btw, it's important to note that for example, Cayce when he was 3 or so years old, fell forehead first onto a board with a large nail sticking out of it, and the nail deeply pierced his forehead.  This may have greatly accentuated his psychic sensitivity by impacting or affecting his Pineal gland.  Hence, of course diet etc. is not going to have as much an effect for someone who had an experience or "adjustment" like this as the average, typical person who hasn't had same. 

   Relativity again.  ;)

Personally I think diet is relative to some degree, with just a few definites. In my own case I have found that skills are assisted by a simple clean and basic diet, but only assisted in a passive sense, in that I don't think a good diet actively helps, but a bad one can be detrimental. It is what goes on in heart and mind that is the real issue. Even so, I have found that foods that hamper my own work are all the junk foods and pleasure/comfort foods. So I try to keep my diet plain and basic - grilled meat, boiled/steamed vegies, oats, bread, fruit. I have a weakness for chocolate which I give in to frequently and I have noticed it definitely hampers my meditation and obe's - and not only that, it also hampers heart centre function, I can feel it. Short term it sooths the stress in the heart but it stops/diminishes the heart's heart energy output. But I think the worst things for most people who are training in meditation, obe's, and other "occult" skills are alcohol and tobacco (and other unnecessary drugs of course). A couple of times when out of body I have seen the effects from the other side of alcohol and tobacco on the head and heart centres, and there is a definite negative effect for those who are trying to get the most out of these centres. But people who are not committed to high pressure occult/spiritual training and are living normal or average lives then I expect a few drinks and smokes in moderation doesn't do any harm. I think its largely an individual thing, depending on one's life course, work and goals. But I do feel sorry for tobacco smokers in pc societies - they get treated like vermin by the anti-smokers. Anyway, that's my two cents worth.    

 

  Well said Crossbow, and i agree with so much of what you wrote, especially how that yes it is a relative and individual process in some ways. 

  But i would like address something you said that i don't quite agree with; Crossbow wrote re: diet and health lifestyle "..but only assisted in a passive sense, in that I don't think a good diet actively helps, but a bad one can be detrimental."

Certainly the latter part is very true, but from at least my own experience the former isn't quite so.  I will try to put it into a couple of different but related perspectives. 

  Have you ever noticed that when you eat really healthy and exercise properly consistently for awhile, and at the same time you're basically a loving and positive kind of person who tries to treat others well, that you feel really, really good and alive?   Yet, in times past or future, you've still been that basically good, kind, positive person but your diet and health lifestyle left something to be desired to say the least, and you were prone more to depressive states, feeling kind of off kilter in different ways, felt low energy, etc? 

    I've experienced both extremes of the spectrum and the inbetween.  And what i noticed is basically this.  When your body, your Temple is strong, vital, healthy, and balanced, it helps you to feel better mentally and emotionally in so many ways.  You feel more clear, balanced, and attuned.

You just feel good and so much more alive!  I've noticed the opposite when one treats ones Temple like a pig sty (which i've done as well).  It becomes harder to maintain those positive and balanced states of mind and emotions.  It leads more easily to poorer freewill choices and choosing. 

  Here is a particularly extreme example of the necessary balance and beneficence that can be seen when there is that coordinating and balance between the body, mind and spirit and when all are focused on simultaneously in a strengthening way. 

  In July, 2007 I attended with my Twin Soul and newly wed Wife, the Gateway Voyage program at The Monroe Institute in Faber (it was our "honeymoon"). 

   It was 6 days of a lot of meditating, a lot of prayer, a lot of enjoying and attuning to beautiful nature, a lot of group work, and a lot of positive, loving thoughts and feeling states. 

  Combined with that, is that i went out of my way to eat as healthily as i could with the choices i was given.  I ate a very cleansing diet throughout that time, which was mostly vegan and included as much live, raw food as i could get plus combing various other health principles i've discussed on this thread like mostly avoiding certain food combinations, avoiding processed and refined foods, avoiding sugars, etc.

  Towards the end of my stay there, i cannot begin to tell you how naturally high and lite i felt.  I felt incredibly alive, aware, and intune as compared to my "normal" state. 

Granted, the higher vibrations built up at the place also helped, but it was primarily an inner thing (loving and positive thoughts, feelings, with a lot of meditation, prayer, etc) and the outer process of deliberately eating in a very life promoting way. 

  Creative Life force begets and attracts Creative Life force. 

  As one person here said, the proof is the in the pudding, and in the experience. 

Maybe others might not have this experience like i had, but something tells me that it certainly would help most people to feel better in a holistic way, which would lead to using their creative will to choose in a more consistently positive manner.  In using their freewill to choose in a creative, constructive manner comes teh real spiritual developement.

  My point is, why hinder and put blocks in the way of that process?   

Why not facilitate with all that can help you?

 

Hola Justin,

"A couple time he was gently chastised and criticized for treating his Temple so poorly. (Notice i used the word "Temple" and capitalized it.  There is a reason, the body is a Temple and should be treated with the appropriate respect and appreciation.)"

Temple is a place of worship, and this way of seeing the body is common, or so I thought. It isn't the eternal spirit whom fears death, and the "inner child" thinks certain foods will prolong the session in which the spirit makes it move. People who are very conscious about food & health nuts are also prone to drop dead at any minute. This can also be seen with healing, when the allotted time is up, it's up, no matter the healing attunement or effort put into it.
 
"Relativity my dear Watson." 

Ok, Sherlock. Hey.. wait a sec.. ;D

"These guys were no Yeshuas or He/She's, not by a long shot. Both of them, tended to experience a lot of deep depression at times in their lives.  Depression incidentally often comes from a combo of one's body being too out of whack physically and often not living up to ones spiritual ideals enough and being too selfish and/or materially attuned."

Both the spirit/mini-disc (not the sony kind) connected to the body, and the disc connected to the spirit is a blend of male and female energies. Effeminate males are drawing upon female energies, and butch females are drawing upon male. I think depression can also be the bittersweet byproduct when the eyes start on their path to become wide open.

"These are not personal criticisms, nor am i fault finding. I'm just trying to put things into holistic perspective."

I second that.

"All i can think is WOW   what a sight it would have been.  What level of helpers they could have been.  Think how long they could have lived and served.  It would have indirectly helped them get closer to that "He/She" level and expression."

The segway into world of warcraft is quite a stretch.  ;) A sliced orange in one hand, wish in another, and I could go for wishing I had sliced oranges. But since sliced oranges isn't the only expression of energy, well. I know of this old dude who can hardly walk, but goes around in his cool tiny car and helps other elderly people. Not sure if he enjoys sliced oranges. Maybe sliced apples. Or sliced bread with something sliced on top.

"Also, btw, it's important to note that for example, Cayce when he was 3 or so years old, fell forehead first onto a board with a large nail sticking out of it, and the nail deeply pierced his forehead.  This may have greatly accentuated his psychic sensitivity by impacting or affecting his Pineal gland.  Hence, of course diet etc. is not going to have as much an effect for someone who had an experience or "adjustment" like this as the average, typical person who hasn't had same."

Would a pimple do the same, half a pear glued to the forehead, or does it have to be a nail so it can tickle the gland into laughing out the happy tones of psychicness? Could also have been the sum of many lives of psychic experiences. Could have been something he ate. And now the body really is hungry, no kidding around. But that's more like a facebook status. +1

"Have you ever noticed that when you eat really healthy and exercise properly consistently for awhile, and at the same time you're basically a loving and positive kind of person who tries to treat others well, that you feel really, really good and alive?"

Not really. But I notice the light and heavy properties of food and like to balance it out a bit. And overeating really is too heavy, for me. I've noticed some of those who eat really healthy and exercise properly are consumed with sports, or a "healthy lifestyle". Some are real food snobs despite their healthy food intake and movement of their bodies.

"My point is, why hinder and put blocks in the way of that process? Why not facilitate with all that can help you?"

Why be miserable when you can have comfort foods?

"Relativity again."

Yep, I too have plenty of opinions. That's not to say I don't like your posts, because I do, and if not who cares. Thanks for your food for thought. :)

And remember folks, too much light polarity and you put the die in diet. Ouch. Nope, the woof is in the pudding, the disc is selfish when it comes to matters of life and death.

Quote:

People who are very conscious about food & health nuts are also prone to drop dead at any minute. This can also be seen with healing, when the allotted time is up, it's up, no matter the healing attunement or effort put into it.

  Sure, that happens sometimes but it's the quality of life in the moment that matters whether or not one will transition two days or a hundred years from now. 

Quote:

I know of this old dude who can hardly walk, but goes around in his cool tiny car and helps other elderly people.

Sliced apples, oranges, and fruits notwithstanding, pretty cool.  Seems he is building up his spiritual maturity.  Imagine all the positive things he could do and all the people he could effect if he had kept his Temple healthy and young?

  You responded after i wrote about Cayce falling forehead first into a large nail which deeply pierced same and how that probably contributed to his unusual, ultra psychic abilities:

Quote:

Could also have been the sum of many lives of psychic experiences.

   Actually, it was both which contributed, both the nail and the sum of many lives of psychic experiences.  His guidance outlined a number of his influencing lives, and about 75 % of them had been involved strongly with meditation-prayer, holistic service to others, and attuning to PUUL. 

  But, Cayce would not have been as ultra psychic and open if he hadn't had the head trauma.  More than a few, unusually psychically sensitive people have mentioned having had severe head traumas.

  Interestingly and sychronisticially, i talked to my brother last night for the first time in awhile, and he mentioned that he and his wife went to go see a medium recently. 

  The medium was apparently the real deal, and she explained some of her background and said that she had been in an accident, had some severe head trauma, some surgery, and afterward it really accentuated some of her psychic perception (she was primarily clairaudient). 

Goes to show,  how much the physical can sometimes be involved with the process of nonphysical perception.   ;)


Quote:

Why be miserable when you can have comfort foods?

  I find it interesting that on one hand you often downplay the importance of paying attention to the physical..but then turn around and share such physically attached sentiments.  Quite contradictory ;)

  Precisely because i'm more detached to the physical in many ways is why i can have the amount of discipline i have to eat from a mental space rather than the much more common and typical emotional, and physical addiction space. 

  In any case, my experience has been that when i have really cleaned out and balanced my system, and consistently eat healthily and exercise enough, etc. that my body begins to crave those "non comfort" foods, and "comfort foods" lose their appeal. 

  If anything, veggies, fruits, brown rice, kefir, etc. have become my comfort foods that help to uplift my emotional state as well as feel better physically.

  So, no misery here for lack of comfort foods.  But, i believe in moderation even for moderation.   I occasionally indulge a sweet tooth or what not now and then, or eat foods that i know aren't the best for me. 

    Or, on the other hand even though i've been vegetarian for about 10 years now, i will occasionally eat fish--particularly if someone else offers it to me  in their home or i'm at a Restaurant with friends who are eating meat.

  Last summer, i even ate chicken despite that i really don't have any draw to do so.  The reason why, is that i was camping with a long time friend of mine who had somehow forgotten ( :-? really Jeff, you've known me for all those 10 years) that i was vegetarian, but went out and bought natural or organic chicken partly because he thought i would appreciate it (not something he would normally buy). 

   I was moved by his thoughtfulness in this area, and so i thanked the Chicken's Consciousness and then ate the chicken's flesh with my friend in appreciation and gratitude, even though Becky looked aghast at me and i could hear the loud mental, "why the hell are you eating that stuff!??"  (i hadn't had chicken in many years by that point).

  It's the Spirit of the Law that matters more than the letter of same. 

  Sometimes it is easy to get too hung up on the letter of the law and become overly dogmatic and rigid in nature.  I'm well aware of this.

 

Ani pele Justin,

"Sure, that happens sometimes but it's the quality of life in the moment that matters whether or not one will transition two days or a hundred years from now."

Agreed. And what is deemed quality of life in the moment, in this case food, is a vast and varied field of peculiar growths, harvested by our bigger selves. Your knowledge about certain food seems big, so it could be you've upped someone's quality and appreciation for some food types. Illumination.

"Sliced apples, oranges, and fruits notwithstanding, pretty cool. Seems he is building up his spiritual maturity.  Imagine all the positive things he could do and all the people he could effect if he had kept his Temple healthy and young?"

It's speculation, but I don't think he has lived an unhealthy life. Another point is how spiritually mature one is if the self isn't tended to in an equal way? My experience with the average person is that many of them would gladly want positive servants "helping" them, and get to snap their fingers instead of moving their own lazy asses. Talk about needing some exercise. Hehe.

"Goes to show, how much the physical can sometimes be involved with the process of nonphysical perception."

I cannot compute that by my own experiences, but enjoy reading.   

"I find it interesting that on one hand you often downplay the importance of paying attention to the physical..but then turn around and share such physically attached sentiments.  Quite contradictory  ;)"

Haha, touché. It's holistic, dude. ;) I've put the body through a 2 dinner a day diet for a year now for it to gain some weight, and the feeling of fuller hasn't been only physical and understand the comfort part of food better. So sure, the physical matters too. Cutting off the arms and this would be much harder. I get the unscientific feeling though that some well intented dietary cuts can be detrimental. Seems to be an individual thing.

"If anything, veggies, fruits, brown rice, kefir, etc. have become my comfort foods that help to uplift my emotional state as well as feel better physically."

Good for you.

"So, no misery here for lack of comfort foods.  But, i believe in moderation even for moderation. I occasionally indulge a sweet tooth or what not now and then, or eat foods that i know aren't the best for me."

Nah, didn't imply any misery on your part and agree with moderation.

"I was moved by his thoughtfulness in this area, and so i thanked the Chicken's Consciousness and then ate the chicken with my friend in appreciation and gratitude, even though Becky looked aghast at me and i could hear the loud mental, "why the hell are you eating that stuff!??"  (i hadn't had chicken in many years by that point)."

I understand those kind of responses but don't like 'em cos of the guilt factor. I don't thank the meat because I sense no spirit left in it, but don't nose thumb it either.

"Sometimes it is easy to get too hung up on the letter of the law and become overly dogmatic and rigid in nature.  I'm well aware of this."

And it's not like it's a stranger knocking at my door from time to time.  ;)

  As much as i enjoy our bantering Volu, i have to say Au revoir on this thread, as i think i've really over killed this thread, and there's just not much more to say on the topic. 

  May the Farce be with you.  Actually, i know the Farce is strong in you already. 

   

I agree with both of you, gentlemen. My opinion on this subject sort of overlaps with others, even though they may seem to differ. Except when people are extreme and try to heighten their own false sense of moral superiority by trying to guilt others about their diet, like some vegetarian types do - I don't agree with that. Overall diet is an individual thing, but a subject that can always have more wrung out of it. And the subject has many adjacent subject attachments too. By the way, I shot a rabbit a few days ago and made a lovely rabbit and vegetable casserole/stew, which I have lived on for the past few days. I often shoot game as I live in the country and when I do I am always thankful and respectful, in a quiet background sort of way, for nature's provisions. I have no guilt about killing game because I never kill for killing sake, and I understand that on this planet, lifeforms consume lifeforms, but the spirit of life and its plan and purpose continue. I love nature and all her elements, plants and creatures, but not in a gushy emotional way, but from heart and understanding.

Here's a thought I just had: (1) If a person's diet was optimally healthy, lets say, fish, vegetables, fruit, and leanest meat - like the traditional diet of the South Pacific Islanders - the healthy diet would not by itself make them one iota more wise or spiritual. Historically, the Pacific Islanders had the healthiest of diets, yet acquired low grade joys from their pastime of paddling the Pacific islands headhunting and torturing captives. (2) And if a spiritual person was force fed junk food then he might feel physically unhealthy but I doubt he would lose his moral sense. I think one thing is one thing, and another thing another. The spirit and the body intermesh but they are different to each other, and yet they assist each other too. But spirit has the final say. (3)And even then, spiritual discipline must be good and true, for a man might might recite his "holy" scriptures several times a day and pray to his god 5 times times a day, and yet still enjoy torturing his fellows and sawing off the heads of tied up infidels, to the chant of how great his god is, and yearn and strive towards turning the entire planet into an burnt uninhabitable desert moonscape to appease his god. A healthy diet will not correct his perverted spirituality, and an unhealthy diet will not tarnish a good man's soul or spirit. But a spiritual outlook will result in right and respectful diet to the degree circumstance allows. That's my three cents worth anyway.

. A healthy diet will not correct his perverted spirituality, and an unhealthy diet will not tarnish a good man's soul or spirit. But a spiritual outlook will result in right and respectful diet to the degree circumstance allows. That's my three cents worth anyway.[/quote]

I so agree with those sentences - from my pov, it is impossible to think of eating the flesh of any creature & I have never done so, so I can't compare it to anything else.

But, for what it's worth, twice a day I eat unpolished brown rice (not overcooked!) laced with linseeds, plus a dash of soya sauce & a sprinkle of fermented black beans & often a tablespoon or two of giant redskin peanuts (unsalted).  I often add a few strips of dried seaweed, & an infrequent vegetable curry dish.  Otherwise, at least 500grams of black grapes a day plus a cup or two of black coffee or green tea.  And that's all.  IfI deviate from this (eg have a slab of chocolate!) I have a hemiplegic migraine attack, so my body has made its needs well known to me, which I take as "on advisement" of the HS ;).

Quote:

Alcohol originally developed from two main reasons.

There was a third:

the water was bad. (In Europe, that is, not bad here back then).

There's something about the "Pilgrims " landing at what is now Plymouth (as opposed to further south) because they ran out of beer....well actually the ship only had enough for the crew for the return trip to England, or something like that.

I think they all drank beer back then, even the kids? though I think I heard it was more like 3/2 beer. But still it was fermented and therefore safer than some water.

Good thing we all have alcohol dehydrogenase in us. (That's the enzyme that breaks alcohol down. We are born able to digest alcohol. )

Crossbow said:  Except when people are extreme and try to heighten their own false sense of moral superiority by trying to guilt others about their diet, like some vegetarian types do - I don't agree with that.

Recoverer responds: It is good that you said "some" vegetarian types. Just like with other issues, there are some vegetarians that try to develop a false sense of superiority by being a vegetarion.

However, this doesn't mean that all vegetarians do the same.  Some realize that about 65 billion animals are raised in cruel conditions each year so people can eat them. Because such vegetarians love all souls, they also love the souls of the animals that are tortured. They don't do so because they seek a false way to feel morally superior. They do so out of love.

It seems to me that some meat eaters become defensive and clingy about their meat eating ways,  and as a result accuse vegetarians to be nothing more than moral fakes.

I've met Justin in person and have spoken to him on the phone, and it is clear to me that he isn't a vegetarian because he's a moral fake. Rather, he has opened his heart to an extent where he loves all beings including animals. Just as he wouldn't torture a person so he could use them for his own purpose, he won't torture animals just so he can eat them.

I figure that when this world evolves to a higher level of being, people won't heartlessly torture billions of animals every year simply because they are tasty. If we want to get to the point where we can live according to love as completely as possible, we can't make exceptions as to when we live according to love and when we don't. 

I figure there are some things you consider immoral. Would it be possible for you to speak up about such things, without it being a matter of your developing a false sense of moral superiority?  Are animals so lowly that their welfare can't be accounted for?

Dear Recoverer,
When I made my comment about a certain type of vegetarian who portray themselves as morally superior to those who eat meat, (and/or words to that effect) I was not referring to you or Justin or anyone on this forum, but just to those vegetarian people who do that. Perhaps you haven't met a vegetarian who falsely portrays their self as morally superior to others. I have met a few of them. But please rest assured that I was not referring to anyone on this forum. In fact I imagine that regulars on this forum, by way of the nature of their studies, would realise that whether a person eats meat, vegetables, fruit, diary, or nuts, is no indication of a person's spiritual/moral level. Adolf Hitler was a greenie, socialist, and vegetarian but that didn't make him moral/spiritual. By the way, while out of the body (and in body, by tuning) I have had extensive dialogue with animals, plants, and elemental life, and I am well aware that plants, rocks, water, etc, are as conscious as are animals, and are just as capable of intelligent communication. In fact I have had more interesting communication with some plants than I have had with some animals, and certainly more intelligent conversations with fire, water, air and earth than I have had with most humans. If I were to only eat the bodies of life that I knew to be the least intelligent then I would have to at least give some consideration to cannibalism. 

Im with you crossbow. I too have shared these conversations/communications with plants and rocks, etc, and know them to be just as spiritually alive as any animal. Eating plants is no different than eating meat. That's the truth. Those who push their vegetarian agenda are spiritually confused and entrapped within a belief system. They will need to have some sort of recovery to release them from this confused state at some point. I am so sick of the stories of how horrible we are to eat meat when if you look at the way we raise veggies and grains, its no better. But each to their own. I don't mind vegetarians. I hold nothing against them, except when they become aggressively fundamentalist. To them, eat less/no meat. It will help keep the price down for the rest of us.   

hawkeye wrote on May 8^th, 2011 at 1:42pm:

Im with you crossbow. I too have shared these conversations/communications with plants and rocks, etc, and know them to be just as spiritually alive as any animal. Eating plants is no different than eating meat. That's the truth. Those who push their vegetarian agenda are spiritually confused and entrapped within a belief system. They will need to have some sort of recovery to release them from this confused state at some point. I am so sick of the stories of how horrible we are to eat meat when if you look at the way we raise veggies and grains, its no better. But each to their own. I don't mind vegetarians. I hold nothing against them, except when they become aggressively fundamentalist. To them, eat less/no meat. It will help keep the price down for the rest of us.

Re: the highlighted portion of your quote, do you mean consciousnesses like Rosiland A. McKnight's guidance team who clearly told Bob Monroe and her that it was preferable to eat vegetarian, and laid out the various reasons why.  They didn't say one "must" eat vegetarian, but they pointed out the reasons of why cutting down on meat (especially meats from four hoofed animals), as well as cutting it completely out, helped the human energy system in beneficial ways. 

Basically the main reason they gave, was the issue of the heavy, dense emotional fear energy that permeates the meat of higher animals, four hoofed etc. type animals (and according to them, to a lesser extent with fish and fowl).  Constantly consuming same, has a lowering affect on one's energies...kind of overly grounding a person in a negative way.  My experience has having been both a voracious meat-eater at one point and as a committed vegetarian supports what Rosiland's guidance outlined.

  For those interested, check out her first book, "Cosmic Journeys", and the Chapter "Control: the Foods we Eat:" 

    Having met Rosie a few times, and having tuned into her energy in person, i'm fairly sure that she was probably in touch with some pretty expanded consciousness levels--plus i've often gotten that sense when i've read her books. 

  But i guess her guidance team are just spiritually confused, trapped within limited belief systems, etc as they must be according to Hawkeyes more enlightened way of looking at the world. 

When it comes to livestock that is raised in cruel conditions I guess it is okay if:

1) They aren't conscious of their existence.

or

2) They are conscious of their existence, and they choose to suffer. For example, the souls that incarnate into the lives of pigs want to be locked up in small metal cages where they can't even turn around. Souls want to incarnate into the lives of male chicks because they want to experience being thrown into grinders shortly after their birth (this happens because they can't lay eggs).

If your a member of a row of cabages (on the other hand) it is okay if you aren't able to move around, because plants never move around.

Would people feel good about treating their pets in the same way that livestock is treated?

Do plants have nervous systems that enable them to feel physical pain?

Even if there is a chance that Hawkeye is correct I'd rather take a chance with my so-called concepts, because I'd rather err this way, than the other way.

Regarding vegetarians being fundamentalists, this was addressed earlier. Can't people speak up for what they believe in without being fundamentalists?  When people make such  claims, it seems as if they are being defensive. Why is this so?

Should there be a law which states that vegetarians can't state what they believe, because they will be "JUDGED" to be fundamentalists? I've heard so many people speak about vegetarians in a condascending way.

Hawkeye, with your way of thinking you might as well go eat people, because it's the same as eating lettuce.

Watch the Meet Your Meat video if you dare. I don't care what kind of justifications and rationalizations Hawkeye can come up with. The way livestock is treated is heartless and barbaric.

http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/default.aspx


http://www.animalfreedom.org/english/information/abuses.html

And if I had to, I would eat people.
Yes Justin, there is a possibility that ROMC's guidance helpers might have told her to cut back on her meat consumption for good reason. Mostly her heart. You must believe her to have been far more spiritually advanced along her path that RAM. He did eat meat. And liked it. In fact I would bet you that of all the so called spiritually advanced, there are just as many meat eaters as there are veg heads. I also met ROMC a few time and we got along swimmingly. She didn't have a problem with me eating meat. At least she never mentioned it to me. Did she to you? Enlightenment is a funny thing. Its personal. Hopefully some day you will understand that. 
When it comes to what I am seeing as recoverer belief in how plants feel or have consciousness, while I believe there might be some work to do there. Perhaps a few more lifetimes living as one might open up your heart. As far as vegetarian fundamentalism goes...go for it. Be who you want to project yourself as being. But if your going to put yourself in that position then you had better put your life in order first if you haven't already. No leather goods. Shoes, jackets, gloves, steering wheel covers, many types of household and food products and additives. No meat products. No animal tested products. Take a good look at your life and the lives of those around you and remove what you have to. There is nothing wrong with being a vegetarian. But those who think of themselves higher and mightier because of it need to get a grip on themselves. By the way Justin, meats, meat. That means fish is a meat. So is fowl. As for propaganda movies and tapes as posted here, they should be removed just like the Nazi ones that were posted some time back. This PETA cr@p make me want to puke. Farms don't operate that way anymore. At the very least, few do.
Of course this is only my personal opinion. I would never suggest that you follow in my belief. Unlike some Veg Heads, I don't need agreement. I have enlightenment already. I repeat. Plants feel. They knowingly become a part of our food and happily sacrifice themselves for us. Just like they do for one another. If some of you cant grasp that plants have consciousness, thats your personal loss.
Burger good, Brussel sprouts, bad..   

Hawkeye:

I didn't say that plants don't have consciousness. They don't have nervous systems, so they probably don't feel physical pain as we and animals do. Even if they do feel physical pain, this doesn't justify livestock animals being treated in the horrible way they are treated. Perhaps people should refuse to purchase meat until animals are raised in more humane conditions. If the human race acted in such a way it would be an enlightened thing to do, not a bone headed fundamentalist thing.

Animals like running around, so it is probably difficult for them to have to be confined. I've never seen a head of lettuce running around, so they probably don't mind being planted in one place. Even when plants are out in nature they have to stay in one place because that is their nature. Wild animals on the other hand run around quite a bit.

What if birds weren't allowed to fly? Would that be the same as not allowing carrots to fly?

Hawkeye, my feeling is that you just don't want to give up the pleasure of eating meat, so you chose to call people like Justin and I fundamentalists.

Regarding Robert Monroe, he had to hear it from the beings he and Rosalind communicated with. Regarding Rosalind not saying anything to you about being a vegetarian, this doesn't necessarily mean she approved. I don't tell the people I know to become vegetarians. I didn't say anything on this thread until somebody referred to vegetarians in a negative way.  Since I know for a fact that there many people who are vegetarians because they listen to the love in their heart, I decided to speak up rather than differ to people who seem to care less about how animals that are used for food are treated. Don't tell me you give a damn about their welfare when you eat them. If you truly cared about how they are treated you wouldn't eat them. As far as I'm concerned your plant excuse is just that, an excuse.

If plants go through the same emotional turmoil livestock animals go through, then why didn't those beings warn Rosalind and Robert about the negative energy of plants? Has anybody ever retrieved a zuchini?

If what occurs in the video I provided doesn't trouble you, I believe it is a bit much for you suggest that in a few incarnations I will be as spiritually advanced as you supposedly are. Yeah, you speak up for plants and eat them along with animals, I speak up for animals and don't eat them.

A late P.S.

I don't see how one can say it is okay to eat meat (as it is available), without also saying it is okay for animals to be treated as they are treated in the video I provided.  I believe it is wrong to turn a blind eye to what takes place. Might as well turn a blind eye to what might've happened with 911. Things change for the better only when people act in a way that causes them to change for the better.  Justifications, rationalizations, denials and excuses don't do anybody any good.

And please don't think that I might be stepping on somebody's toes by being hardcore, because any injury somebody experiences is nothing compared to what livestock animals go through.

Recoverer said: "..... Don't tell me you give a damn about their welfare when you eat them. If you truly cared about how they are treated you wouldn't eat them...."

It seems I misjudged you Recoverer - it turns out you are one of those people who likes to think that being a vegetarian makes you more caring / spiritually superior to others. I imagined people on this forum would have a little more sense - and genuineness.

Such an attitude of I'm-a-good-person-and-you're-not-because-I'm-a-vegetarian is phony virtue. Look deeply and honestly into your heart and see that what you eat has nothing to do with your spiritual comparison to others. Your heart is not one shade brighter from your vegetarian diet, but your sly boasting of being spiritually elevated above meat eaters darkens your heart because it is the practice of phony spiritual elitism. Your attitude is insulting to others, as I am sure you are fully aware and therefore intend it to be, but the greatest harm of your attitude is to yourself. Grow up man and recognise that the content of your heart is not governed by your diet, and those who eat different foods to yourself are not spiritually inferior to you.    

hawkeye wrote on May 9^th, 2011 at 4:48pm:

And if I had to, I would eat people. Yes Justin, there is a possibility that ROMC's guidance helpers might have told her to cut back on her meat consumption for good reason. Mostly her heart. You must believe her to have been far more spiritually advanced along her path that RAM. He did eat meat. And liked it. In fact I would bet you that of all the so called spiritually advanced, there are just as many meat eaters as there are veg heads. I also met ROMC a few time and we got along swimmingly. She didn't have a problem with me eating meat. At least she never mentioned it to me. Did she to you? Enlightenment is a funny thing. Its personal. Hopefully some day you will understand that.  When it comes to what I am seeing as recoverer belief in how plants feel or have consciousness, while I believe there might be some work to do there. Perhaps a few more lifetimes living as one might open up your heart. As far as vegetarian fundamentalism goes...go for it. Be who you want to project yourself as being. But if your going to put yourself in that position then you had better put your life in order first if you haven't already. No leather goods. Shoes, jackets, gloves, steering wheel covers, many types of household and food products and additives. No meat products. No animal tested products. Take a good look at your life and the lives of those around you and remove what you have to. There is nothing wrong with being a vegetarian. But those who think of themselves higher and mightier because of it need to get a grip on themselves. By the way Justin, meats, meat. That means fish is a meat. So is fowl. As for propaganda movies and tapes as posted here, they should be removed just like the Nazi ones that were posted some time back. This PETA cr@p make me want to puke. Farms don't operate that way anymore. At the very least, few do. Of course this is only my personal opinion. I would never suggest that you follow in my belief. Unlike some Veg Heads, I don't need agreement. I have enlightenment already. I repeat. Plants feel. They knowingly become a part of our food and happily sacrifice themselves for us. Just like they do for one another. If some of you cant grasp that plants have consciousness, thats your personal loss. Burger good, Brussel sprouts, bad..

  Joe, you have an amazing ability to distract from the key points and issues that someone who disagrees with you has brought up in a very clear and concise manner.
 
  To point out a few gaping holes in the above.  Rosiland's guidance as outlined in her book was giving general advice to Rosie, Bob, and probably to the people they knew would eventually read her book even though it was many years in the making (thats how nonphysical guidance works being much more aware of future probabilities than most in physical personalities).

  It was not about Rosies "heart" or any of her health problems, which hadn't developed at that point to begin with.  Not once did i read about them specifically saying anything to her about her health or lack thereof in their talking about the helpfulness of reducing and/or completely cutting out flesh foods.

  Again, it was primarily about the GENERAL, universal issue of emotional fear energy contained within or connected to flesh, which has an adverse effect on the human energy system in general. 

It's there quite clearly in Rosiland's book, "Cosmic Journeys".  Why you feel such a need to distract from the basic facts found therein, is quite telling in and of itself. 

  Notice I wasn't speaking, earlier, of what Rosie or Bob did or didn't do personally, or what they believed, practiced, etc.   I simply stated what her nonphysically focused guidance recommended and why they did so.  The apparently missed obvious point i was trying to make is that Rosiland's nonphysical guidance was more wise, more intune, more consciously aware, and less attached than was Rosie or Bob themselves.   Hence, one can get the real scoop or skinny from such expanded sources and not fleshly weak in physicals with strong material appetites and attachments.

  Ever hear the saying, "The Spirit is strong and willing, but the flesh is weak".  That is true so much of the time for so many in physically focused consciousnesses.   

   So, if you are going to "refute" my posts, please refute the actual specific points i bring up, and not go on some rambling diatribe about how Bob Monroe ate and enjoyed meat, Rosie's heart, blah blah blah.

Monroe was a cool guy, a basically good and fairly aware guy, but he was no He/She type by a long shot in that life.  That means, Bob had areas to work on in self, illusions to wake up from, more attuning to PUL to do, etc. etc. 

   Not eating meat doesn't directly make one more spiritual, nor does eating meat directly take away from the spiritual development of a person. I've stated this clearly many times on this thread. 

What meat eat does do (especially when eaten constantly and in larger amounts, particularly certain kinds), though, is have a generally adverse effect on the human energy system, making it harder to clear and balance same for the other levels of self. 

  It just makes it harder to keep one's various energies levels clear and in a balanced relation with one another. 

  Can you speak to this having not been a committed vegetarian for a long time, having gone from eating a lot of meat? 

  Speaking of Bob, then, isn't experience the best teacher as he often said.  Well, my actual, bonafide experience has taught me that what Rosiland's GUIDANCE (not her, not Bob, etc) taught and suggested is quite true.
   
    In other words, it's been "verified" for me.  It cannot be "verified" or dis proven for you or another until you or another actually have the experience.

  But that would require self change, discipline, hmm that dirty word "self sacrifice", etc. and that's where the problem comes isn't it?

   Just like with Edgar Cayce and his guidance, neither Bob nor Rosie always listened or followed as much as they should have to the guidance they communicated with.  Again, it goes back to that old teaching about the Spirit being strong and willing, but the flesh being weak. 

   I also fall short of what my guidance asks of me, and so i know this well enough.  Sometimes my flesh is also weak, though the Spirit strong and willing.

Crossbow:

If you want to believe that people can't be opposed to how animals are treated for genuine reasons that isn't about judging others, that is your cynical choice. What's next, there is no such thing as love?

If it seems as if I was upset as I wrote some of my posts, this is because I was upset. I find it infuriating that people are willing to dismiss the way in which many animals are tortured, while at the same time they claim to be superior. B.S., B.S., B.S. If somebody tried to justify beating  children, that would also infuriate me. If somebody  said, "plants suffer too," I still wouldn't believe it is okay to beat children. Animals don't have to be raised in the cruel manner they are raised in order for people to eat.


crossbow wrote on May 9^th, 2011 at 11:30pm:

Recoverer said: "..... Don't tell me you give a damn about their welfare when you eat them. If you truly cared about how they are treated you wouldn't eat them...." It seems I misjudged you Recoverer - it turns out you are one of those people who likes to think that being a vegetarian makes you more caring / spiritually superior to others. I imagined people on this forum would have a little more sense - and genuineness. Such an attitude of I'm-a-good-person-and-you're-not-because-I'm-a-vegetarian is phony virtue. Look deeply and honestly into your heart and see that what you eat has nothing to do with your spiritual comparison to others. Your heart is not one shade brighter from your vegetarian diet, but your sly boasting of being spiritually elevated above meat eaters darkens your heart because it is the practice of phony spiritual elitism. Your attitude is insulting to others, as I am sure you are fully aware and therefore intend it to be, but the greatest harm of your attitude is to yourself. Grow up man and recognise that the content of your heart is not governed by your diet, and those who eat different foods to yourself are not spiritually inferior to you.

recoverer wrote on May 9^th, 2011 at 1:17pm:

Watch the Meet Your Meat video if you dare. I don't care what kind of justifications and rationalizations Hawkeye can come up with. The way livestock is treated is heartless and barbaric. http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/default.aspx http://www.animalfreedom.org/english/information/abuses.html

  Yum, certainly makes me hungry.  Well sarcasm aside, in reality, i watched most of the first one, but couldn't finish watching it as i was both feeling sick to my stomach and crying at the same time. 

  This is part of the reason why earlier on this thread, i recommended that if one feels that they must eat meat, then it's best if one hunts or raises itself.  I did not go into the unconscionable way in which many, many (most) animals are raised, abused, and slaughtered for food (though i was well aware of that beforehand).

Rather, i appealed to people's self interested side and said that hunted or personally raised animal meat is much, much healthier for one's body. 

  Here is what i've learned about this issue, unless one is approaching or talking to a person on the precipice of change to begin with, it does no good to mention the extremely and unbelievably inhumane, cruel, and sad way in which most animals raised as livestock and dairy are treated.

  Most peoples hearts are hardened and deaf to this.  Oh, if they deign to, or have the courage to watch some, they might feel bad while watching same, but they quickly put the reality out of their mind, and go on their merry way.  Because of attachments, and ultimately, lack of compassion and attunement to PUL.  Their selfishness is stronger than their love. 

  Such same people often mention the more spiritually intune Native Americans and that they ate meat.  Well sure, but they didn't eat the meat from animals raised like they are in the U.S and in many other "developed" (technologically) countries.   I think if we could transport one of those more intune Native American tribes from the past to the future and have them watch this.... I think they would all cry, and think they have been transported to some kind of living hell wherein the Great Spirit has been utterly forgotten and spat upon.  They would probably try to free all these mistreated and completely disrespected animals.

  So, i've become to think it is more effective to appeal to people's self interested side. It's where the majority can be reached.

I've wondered if this is why Rosiland's guidance mentioned the imbalancing effect that a lot of meat consumption tends to have on the human energy system?  And that if one really cuts down or completely cuts out same, it's easier for one to more easily perceive and experience faster vibratory nonphysical levels or states... (way "beyond" classic OBE experiences and states btw).

  See, they were appealing to people's self interested side, rather than to peoples ethical or compassionate side.  I'm sure they were well aware of the unconscionable way in which animals are treated in the country that Bob and Rosie lived in.  I'm sure they cared.  I'm sure it broke their nonphysical hearts to see how much disrespect and cruelty humans showed to fellow, sentient, emotionally attuned, and pain feeling creatures.  Yet, they did not approach it in that way, and i have a feeling they knew better there.

   But back to my new approach.  Same with health.  Many health sources agree that cutting down on meat consumption, especially from animals like beef and pig, definitely improves one's health. 

  Or like i said it's also healthier to hunt or raise it oneself.

  But while i feel for these animals myself, and really wish things were different, i think i will primarily stick to trying to appeal to people's self interested side, rather than to their ethical or compassionate side.  People's hackles and defense systems tend to automatically raise when one tries to appeal to the ethical and compassionate side of things and point out how they are supporting and contributing to such a disgusting, unloving, and inhumane system.

  Perhaps my feelings, thoughts, etc. on this topic make me an arrogant person, a spiritually confused person, or someone whose spirituality is fake and based on judgment of others...

  Maybe, but i would rather be on this side any day than on the other side which supports and furthers the kind of mass inhumanity and cruelty that goes on daily and with literally billions and billions of animals in the world.

  We might not willingly stop this any time soon, but soon is coming a time when the Creative Forces will stop us, and we will have no choice but to change.  Every time a generations collective heart gets so hardened, so atrophied, does nature and the Creative Forces conspire to send humanity a severe wake up call and knocks down our built up civilizations as if they were nothing but rotted twigs. Rather more accurately, more so it's what we co-create and attract to us via the Like attracts and begets Like Law that runs this whole Universe. 

  If we constantly and mostly collectively put out/express destructive energy, it's what we will eventually attract collectively.    

 

Justin:

You and I know each other beyond this forum.  Therefore we know that each of us is a vegetarian for reasons other than what Hawkeye and Crossbow suggest.

Because they were so quick to label us in the way they did, I wouldn't be surprised that some of the other vegetarians they speak of in a judgmental way also have pure motives. They probably respond to such vegetarians with defensiveness rather than an appreciation for what they do. I know of other vegetarians who have pure motives.

I've been a vegetarian for more than 25 years. Throughout the years people have made comments and or have given me looks about my vegetarinism that weren't flattering or thoughtful. They basically assume I'm some sort of a moron for not eating meat. I bet you the souls of the many animals that are treated cruely wouldn't tell me the same thing. Such souls would say that despite what plants go through, it isn't okay to treat livestock animals in the cruel way they are treated.

Justin and Recoverer, 
Re-read my posts above if you like, and see that I entered this thread with a reasonably balanced view on the subject of diet. I suppose I should have anticipated there would be holier than thou vegetarians here who fancy their vegetarianism qualifies them to spiritually insult other people, but for some reason I thought such nasty types would not be on this forum. You fancying that your vegetarian diet makes you more spiritual than meat eaters is grossly mistaken. And your putting down the spiritual level of meat eaters is pathetic and cheap:

A few of many examples:
"..... Don't tell me you give a damn about their welfare when you eat them. If you truly cared about how they are treated you wouldn't eat them...."
“…the extremely and unbelievably inhumane, cruel, and sad way in which most animals raised as livestock and dairy are treated…”
“…lack of compassion and attunement to PUL”

What a horrid pair you are. Accusing meat eaters of not caring about animals and of lacking compassion and love, and saying meat eaters need to be appealed to on a level of self interest. Saying such things about meat eaters might make you feel more spiritual than them but its a false feeling generated by false thinking.  

You two self-lovers are wrapped up in your own feel good fantasies about your self. That is what's called wanking.
In your case its moral/spiritual wanking. Break the habit boys. Grow up and get real.

crossbow wrote on May 12^th, 2011 at 6:35am:

Justin and Recoverer,  Re-read my posts above if you like, and see that I entered this thread with a reasonably balanced view on the subject of diet. I suppose I should have anticipated there would be holier than thou vegetarians here who fancy their vegetarianism qualifies them to spiritually insult other people, but for some reason I thought such nasty types would not be on this forum. You fancying that your vegetarian diet makes you more spiritual than meat eaters is grossly mistaken. And your putting down the spiritual level of meat eaters is pathetic and cheap: A few of many examples: "..... Don't tell me you give a damn about their welfare when you eat them. If you truly cared about how they are treated you wouldn't eat them...." “…the extremely and unbelievably inhumane, cruel, and sad way in which most animals raised as livestock and dairy are treated…” “…lack of compassion and attunement to PUL” What a horrid pair you are. Accusing meat eaters of not caring about animals and of lacking compassion and love, and saying meat eaters need to be appealed to on a level of self interest. Saying such things about meat eaters might make you feel more spiritual than them but its a false feeling generated by false thinking.   You two self-lovers are wrapped up in your own feel good fantasies about your self. That is what's called wanking. In your case its moral/spiritual wanking. Break the habit boys. Grow up and get real.

  I've mostly been speaking in a very general sense about humanity as a whole. 

  In any case, i don't see this as such a black and white issue as you seem to be portraying, and i will explain some.

  Even though i personally choose to eat 99 percent vegetarian (as mentioned, i occasionally eat some fish), i actually have a lot of respect for people that hunt their own food, raise the animals in more decent, humane ways themselves, and/or pay the extra money to buy meat from small local farms wherein it's closer to the old traditional ways of raising livestock and the animals are not raised in horrible and extremely inhumane conditions (wherein many actually go insane). 

  What i have a lack of respect for, is the attitude and position of wherein people ARE aware of what goes on with the huge agribusiness of meat, dairy, and poultry, BUT support it anyway as if they somehow "have to" or rather convince themselves of that. 

  You don't have to become that dirty word, "vegetarian" to not support the cruelty, inhumanity, etc. that goes on daily with literally billions of animals in the world, to still eat flesh. 

  So yes, sometimes i am very frank and direct and i call a spade a spade but i don't care how you try to slander, belittle, and minimize me. 

    If you follow the first above pattern of hunting, raising, or buying more ethically raised flesh, then all the more power to you and i have respect for you in that area. 

   If not, then i have less respect for you in that area, but that doesn't mean i have little or no respect for you at all, and think you are a horrible person.

  Bruce Moen, the founder of this site, is someone i have a lot of general respect for and i'm aware that not only does he eat meat, but he supports indirectly that above cruel and inhumane system.   

  It doesn't mean that i think he can't be a generally loving and aware person to do so, and that i don't have a lot of respect for him in various other areas, but yes i do feel there is a lack of PUL and compassion in that specific area of his life and self if he willingly and consciously supports such a system if he could do differently.

  So again, it's not a black and white issue in my eyes.  I am really passionate and care a lot about the issue of animal torture and cruelty for food.  I am not totally against the idea of killing an animal for food nor am i totally against the idea of eating an animals flesh.   

  But i am totally against the idea of supporting the mainstream system that brings most meat to most groceries.  In some countries, it's not quite as bad as the country i live in, but it's still a pretty severe issue world wide in so called developed countries.

  A thousand years from now, the humans alive then, are going to look back at this time now, and they will wonder strongly of how we could have been so unbelievably barbaric and callous to the suffering of other of Source's creatures.  Such people in the future, collectively will not support or even think to start such a system.  Why?  because they are collectively more spiritually mature, because spiritually maturity is simply all about the degree of attunement to PUL.  A huge component of PUL is compassion. 

  In any case, i think it's common that a lot of people alive today, lie to themselves, justify or rationalize a lot of things because of self or body based weakness.

  I have some compassion and understanding for that because i know what it's like to be human and to be weak, but i little compassion for when people who loudly support that sick and barbaric system by denigrating those who are strongly against same for ethical and PUL based reasons. 

  I have not once, on this thread said that people should or have to become vegetarian.  I've mostly stuck to stating the holistic benefits (health and helps to keep the human energy system in balalnce) of cutting down amounts of certain types of meat (namely the common beef and pork). 

    So yes, characterize us as a horrible pair if that is what makes you feel better if you happen to support such a inhumane and barbaric system of animal cruelty.  I know where you are truly coming from in attaching such extreme and negative fixed labels to Albert and i, and i don't take it all that personally because it's your issue of needing to judge based on (self) defensiveness.   
 

  I wonder if all the major spiritual teachers and leaders, many who are further in the past, like Buddha, Yeshua, Krishna, etc., i wonder if they were alive now, would they knowingly and willingly support such an inhumane and cruel system (not to mention HUGELY polluting) so unique in its extremity in our modern times?

   Would they, or some, speak out about it, or would they remain silent?  Would they be worried if they were coming off as "spiritual" and worry about offending peoples defensive egos? 

  There is a non religious, but psychically derived book called "The Aquarian Gospel of Jesus the Christ" by Levi.  Levi was an interesting man who spent a lot of time in mostly selfless service to others throughout his life. 

  He was convinced for a good portion of his life, that consciousness somehow "recorded" in some area of consciousness all human events and thoughts, etc.  He spent a lot of time preparing himself in meditation and prayer to be able to consciously tap into this area of consciousness at will in order to "read" same so to speak. 

  Pretty interesting considering the guy was born in the 1800's well before any more collective New Age movement.   

  Anyways, what was dictated from this level of consciousness wherein all human actions, thought, etc. is recorded, was an life account of the spiritual Teacher known to us today as Jesus.  It included his "lost years", and while i don't think it's a 100 percent accurate in it's psychic accuracy rate, it's still a very interesting and worthwhile book imo. 

  Why do i bring it up.  In this account, we find a young Yeshua, who even when 10 or 11 years or so old, became greatly distraught by the barbaric "burnt offerings of flesh to God" which was part of the ritual Hebraic sacrifices they practiced in his time.  Animals like doves etc. were quite literally tortured, killed, and then bled. 

  Again, we find human cruelty and barbarism towards animals, but this time even worse, in the name of God, as if God somehow appreciates or demands this.

   So little Yeshua, who probably had more spiritual awareness and PUL attunement in him at age 11 then, then the huge majority of us now even at ages 20, 30, 40, 50, 60 etc., became very upset by what he was seeing and tried to stop it by telling the Rabbi's that it was not only pointless but also plain wrong.  He begged them to stop this torture and cruelty.

  All the while crying at the sounds of pain and torture he was hearing on behalf of beings with very developed pain and emotional senses.  Simply put, being very empathic, he could feel their pain and fear--he was more CONNECTED to them in consciousness, or rather more awareness of his Oneness with them.

   Now, i'm pretty sure that he probably sometimes ate fish, and maybe even lamb, but according to the above account he wouldn't support the above needless and barbaric practice, nor do i think he would support, in our times, a system that is FAR, FAR, FAR more cruel and inhumane than even what he was seeing. 

Anyways, some food for thought, quite literally.   

Crossbow:

I will not apologize for feeling strongly about not torturing animals. I also will not apologize for standing up for vegetarians who are disparaged in the unintelligent way you do so.

When it comes to me, believe whatever you want.

  Notice Crossbow that in my disagreeing with you, or rather in what you believe, that i did not make it all about you and how negative etc. you are? 

  Notice how your "debate" to both Albert and i are all about not the points we brought up, but almost totally focused on how negative, judgmental, unloving, and spiritually immature we are?

  What does that tell you about self?   What does it mean when a person won't civilly disagree the points or beliefs of the other, but instead spends all their time and energy focusing on tearing down the other(s) who has different beliefs? 

   You are well named here, Crossbow, a fitting name.

  Rosiland McKnight's guidance hasn't been the only nonphysical source of guidance which recommended cutting down and cutting out meat.

  Here are a couple of interesting excerpts from the Edgar Cayce Readings relating to this subject.

  Here is some advice to one individual who was more spiritually intune than the average, "Let the diet be only vegetable forces, do not lower the plane of development by animal vibrations."  Reading 1010-1

  In another very long and involved reading about the nature of sleep, dreams, and activities of same relating to both physical and nonphysical energies and processes involving the glandular system his guidance says, "In the purely physical...the same body fed upon meats, and for a period--then the same body fed upon only herbs and fruits--would not have the same character or activity of the other self in its relationship to that as would be experienced by the other self in its activity through that called the dream self."  Reading 5754-1

  Seems to be saying that there would be a noticeable difference in dream activity and type if one tried a vegetarian diet vs a omnivore diet. 



 

(Im feeling that vegetarian love now.) As far a PETA propaganda movies go, they are just that. Propaganda. Posting them on this sight is no better that posting movies/pictures of Hitlers atrocities. Both as sickening as the other. (They were removed because of their content.) Justin and Recoverer are just as correct in their assumptions about spiritually as I as a meat eater is. Spirituality is a personal thing. Just because ROMC's guild believed it right for her to go Vegy doesn't make it right for me. Not that hers is wrong...just that its differant for me. Think about the story of the mass of spiritual bodies all slithering all over each other in a attempt to have physical sexual experience in Bobs book. I believe the same to be true of anybody who keeps their mind closed and attuned to only one belief. Fundamentalist vegetarians could end up in a massive pile of rotting vegetables. Kidding of course but hopefully you get the point. Whats good for you doesnt necessarily mean it good for anyone else. Pushing your beliefs upon others is morally and spiritually wrong. Posting these sick movies in an attempt to sway people to your beliefs is wrong in my mind. Don't eat meet if you don't want to. But don't preach to other that its wrong or that they could miss the spiritual boat because they eat meet. That also wrong.  Just that your belief, dosent make my beliefs wrong. I think its great that some people are vegetarians. But I hold anything against people who eat meat. Now I do hold those responsible for the amoral treatment of animals, in low esteem. Now they are the bad ones. If you believed PETA, that would be all farmers and ranchers. But thats not true. That is a bold faced lie made in an attempt to suck money out of peoples pockets. (My opinion only) So I apologise for offending those vegetarians that feel that necessary. A  message to those who eat meat. Keep on eating it. Its all good. God probably loves you more.   

I eat meat but I've cut back a lot from what I used to eat. I am a protein nutritional type meaning I either eat a little meat or a ton of beans and whatnot to keep from grazing all day and night. I do however wish that all beef was grass fed and all fowl was cage free. I make some sacrifices in other areas to make it possible to pay the higher price. I can't say I always get the good stuff, but I am aware and I try to make the effort. I've become a real Trader Joes fan and I'm trying to find grass fed from a local farm too.

Beau,
Depending on where you live, you should be able to find a local farm that raises the cattle and poultry on grass and lets them run free. We found one a few years ago, and now purchase most of our beef (we buy half a cow which lasts us more than a year), our chickens and turkeys, and we get our eggs from there.  It is a small step, and it is more expensive, but I do feel better for it, both physically and spiritually.

Yes, Bardo, I am sure I will be able to find a farm. Actually I've already found one, but its about 40 miles north of where I live and they only deliver when enough people have signed up. I am still waiting on more folks to sign up so I can get my produce and also talk to them about the meats. :)

That's the way it should be done. Local if possible. We also purchase as much of our meat products locally raised as possible. A friend of ours raises our pork, duck, and did do chickens also. Beef we haven't found, but we eat so little of it anyways it wouldn't work to buy a half for just the two of us. eggs are local and they just cant be beat. Dark and yellow. They are so good. They are just so much better when those chicken eat MEAT (bugs) than when their only grain fed. Knowing where your food comes from, including your vegetables is important. Purchasing veggies off factory farms could be considered just a wrong as factory farm produced meats.
Just because I eat meat doesn't mean I support the factory farms as shown in some of the postings. I surly don't. That would be like saying that because I eat vegetables means  I support factory farms that have pushed out the majority of small family farmers. Or I support those who have introduced modified grains and vegetables. I don't. Recover and AKA aren't wrong in their beliefs. Nor am I or Crossbow wrong, etc. We just have different beliefs.(IE Vegetarians aren't necessarily Christians, and meat eaters Muslims.) Its all just beliefs. Belief, not truth. What people like Monroe, Cayce, AKA, ROMC, Her advisers, myself, Recoverer, Mohammad,  Christ, etc think...are just beliefs. Nothing more. Nothing less. So if you believe that your spiritual experiences will be lesser if you eat some meats then they surly will be. But that just not the case for everyone. Me as an example. I believe that by eating grains and vegetables produced without good spiritual choncisness, like on factory farms, could,(COULD) be a detrimental spiritually as  eating meats produced on factory farms. But then thats just my belief, and in all reality may only mean something spiritual to me. Having communicated with the choncisness of plants, I know they are as alive and spiritually aware as any animal is. The belief that because they do not experience consciousness, even pain, the same way as a animal does, making them less or lower, to me shows an unknowing of true spiritual awareness and connection with God. Dont we all still have so much to learn?          

  It's really cool that you guys try to buy local, real farm sourced food and try not to support the huge factory "farms" sources.  If there were more of us who did this, it would eventually shut down the factory farm crap.

  Joe, i agree with you about the quality of eggs bought at a real, smaller, more traditional farm as compared to the mass produced stuff. 

  There is no comparison in the quality, and the former is often notable for how much darker and more yellow the yolks are from these sources.   I also buy eggs from smaller and/or more traditional farms.  When i can't get these, i go to "certified humane" stuff.  Chickens are some of the most mistreated animals in the factory farms--particularly in the hen and egg area.  Unfortunately, in the U.S. at least, when in regular grocery stores, most of the eggs sold in same do come from these mass produced factory farms.  This is a pretty well known and corroborated truth.

Justin,
So true. Have you noticed how the local eggs break so much more easily? The factory farm eggs are engineered to have tough shells to prevent damage in shipping.  We also do the Community Supported Agriculture (CSA) for our veggies, although we have a garden of our own.  We get a box once a week from May go November of whatever is producing at the time. This was our first week and we got some small broccoli, lots of good lettuce and some radishes and Boc Choy (SP), which I have not figured out how best to cook yet. Teaching my kids to garden is one of the most rewarding things I do. That and soccer, which is probably less spiritually profitable than the veggies!

  Hi Bardo,

  I have noticed that, and wondered about the difference.  Your explanation makes a lot of sense. 

  Very nice that you have a garden and are teaching your kids to garden!  That knowledge and experience will come in very handy for the future.  Actually, it will be the way of the future.

My wife and i are in the process of buying our first house, and i'm probably most excited because it will allow me to garden again.  Most of the places i've rented at, i couldn't have a garden.  So definitely looking forward to it.