I'm new to this forum and have been having OBE's since around age 12. After reading Monroe's and Bruce's books I have decided to stop and ask questions of people and creatures I run into instead of just zipping around aimlessly. Recently I started to document some of my trips. Here is one such trip. I hope I put this in the correct section of the forum.

5/10/09 0700 Eastern Standard. I think this trip was somewhere into the belief system territories. I found myself in an environment similar to the 1920's. Reminded me of the depression in a city slum.  Lots of old people in shabby clothes milling around chatting and carrying on. I noticed a table with about 8 people sitting at it. One old man with hardly a tooth left in his mouth was shuffling cards as the guy next to him impatiently waited. I took a seat to the left of a woman who looked to be 60 or so. She was talking to the woman off to her right. I was determined to get some info on this trip so I decided to interrupt her conversation. This is a summary of what happened from my notes.
I asked the woman who she was and she didn't really pay attention to me. I asked her again more sternly and she finally realized I was talking to her. She said her name was Kate. I asked her for her last name and I had a hard time making it out, sounded something like Copert. I asked her if she was from earth and she gave me a very puzzled/surprised looked and said ," Yes ! I'm human" This was a gathering of people that happens a lot but this gathering was special, turns out this was a tournament ( card game of some sorts ) I asked Kate where she was from and she said Arizona. I asked what town and she said something that sounded like Zooma. I asked her if the people here knew they were dead ( I don't know if I should be asking that ) and she said not all the people knew they had died. She was very uncomfortable answering that question and I think I made her question herself as to whether or not she was still alive. Her exact words were , " Well no, not all know "
She knew something was different with her and what I got out of Kate was that these old peopled dismissed funny things that happened there as their imaginations for being old.I felt myself starting to phase out and quickly said sorry got to go, thank you. I'm not sure if they got the message.
One thing that was different about this trip was I had no sense at all of my physical body. I didn't want to try and feel for it because a lot of times when that happens I phase out and come back. For a moment I had thought maybe my body died in its sleep and if that's was the case I had nothing to lose but hang around and get some info before trying to come back. Its hard to put it all into words and have it make sense, but that's it.

Hi Charley,
the atmosphere I picked up from your notes sounds familiar to me. It's a kind of half-half thinking, people sense they had died, but don't think much about it. I came across people who had -sort of- accepted that they had died physically, but their attention is very much focused on their immediate surrounding and what's going on, and so it doesn't even matter to them. I guess if they would deeply realize this "jump" from the physical to the nonphysical, they would become more distanced to their surroundings which would allow a greater freedom of chosing where and how they want to exist. But this may be accompanied with fear as well.

Are you having OBE's during sleep, or as well when just relaxing?

Spooky

Hi Spooky,
Majority of my trips occur in the mornings. I will feel myself waking up, or I will hear myself snoring. Sometimes there are vibrations but usually I will wake with my body still asleep. Its very hard for me to go to a specific place because all it takes is just a second of thinking about somewhere and I'm there. Its instantaneous travel with no feeling of movement. Some places have lots of activity, some places are boring. One trip I found myself looking down on a farmer in his field. He was busy raking the hay that was scattered around his tractor. I decided to swoop down and started to do very fast circles around his head. He became extremely  agitated and started yelling at me telling me to go away. He had his rake up trying to swap me like I was a fly. It was at first very funny, but realizing I was causing this man a lot of pain, I quickly left. When I come back I think myself back, or I think to move my physical right index finger. It wasn't until I came across Monroe's books that I realized what it was all about. His books led to an internet search, which led to Bruce's books, which led to this site. Its very comforting to see so many people who have never met, have had the same experiences.

Hello CharleyTuna,

Welcome and thanks for sharing these experiences!
No doubt, you do get around into the afterlife, don't you!?
Now if you would add a nudge and suggestion that these stuck souls look for the light and move toward it, you'd be retrieving them and helping clear some crowded belief territories.  :)

Bets

Betson I don't consider myself any type of helper or retriever. And I have never experienced a type of light, or tunnel that others have reported. But you are right about lots of people out there that are stuck. Here is another trip were there were many confused and lonely people just waiting around for whats supposed to happen next.

Having spent 10 yrs in the military I decided to try and find some military people on my next trip out.
5/30/09 0615 am eastern standard.I felt myself waking up and then thought about going to see some military people. Instantly I found myself on a small hillside of grass with little boulders laying around. The sky was very sunny, mountains dotted the horizon, absolutely beautiful scenery. I saw dozens and dozens of men and women all shuffling along very slowly on a path that went up one side of the hill, and down the other side. They were making one big loop and all following each other. Some of them were alone, some in small groups. Not much talking. They all seemed to be waiting for something. Some had just arrived at this place and some had been there a while. These people were dressed in desert style camis, and the old olive drab type. Remembering that I was intent on talking to someone this time I went right up to one young man and got directly in front of his path. I said , " Hey ! can you see me ?"
He slowly raised his head and said yes. This young man had just recently got there and he was very confused as to where he was, and how he got there. His mind was racing trying to find a explanation. He was military, a white male,short hair, desert camis, and had on a olive drab t shirt which was unusual ( we would sometimes wear desert or olive t shirts depending on what was clean that day ) I asked him his name and he didn't answer me. I asked him one more time and he said, "I'm Reggie"
I said, " Reggie who ?"
He thought for a second and said ," Reggie Beastion " (Very hard to make out last names for some reason )
He seemed really happy to remember that and to talk to me so I asked him where he was from. He told me New York. I took up a position next to him as he walked with the rest of the people. This time I decided it was not wise to ask him if he knew he had died. Instead I asked him how old he was and he said 19. I asked him if he knew how he got here. He started to tell me just as I felt myself fading out. I quickly said Thanks and came back.

CharleyTuna wrote on Aug 31^st, 2009 at 2:21pm:

Betson I don't consider myself any type of helper or retriever. And I have never experienced a type of light, or tunnel that others have reported. But you are right about lots of people out there that are stuck. Here is another trip were there were many confused and lonely people just waiting around for whats supposed to happen next. Having spent 10 yrs in the military I decided to try and find some military people on my next trip out. 5/30/09 0615 am eastern standard.I felt myself waking up and then thought about going to see some military people. Instantly I found myself on a small hillside of grass with little boulders laying around. The sky was very sunny, mountains dotted the horizon, absolutely beautiful scenery. I saw dozens and dozens of men and women all shuffling along very slowly on a path that went up one side of the hill, and down the other side. They were making one big loop and all following each other. Some of them were alone, some in small groups. Not much talking. They all seemed to be waiting for something. Some had just arrived at this place and some had been there a while. These people were dressed in desert style camis, and the old olive drab type. Remembering that I was intent on talking to someone this time I went right up to one young man and got directly in front of his path. I said , " Hey ! can you see me ?" He slowly raised his head and said yes. This young man had just recently got there and he was very confused as to where he was, and how he got there. His mind was racing trying to find a explanation. He was military, a white male,short hair, desert camis, and had on a olive drab t shirt which was unusual ( we would sometimes wear desert or olive t shirts depending on what was clean that day ) I asked him his name and he didn't answer me. I asked him one more time and he said, "I'm Reggie" I said, " Reggie who ?" He thought for a second and said ," Reggie Beastion " (Very hard to make out last names for some reason ) He seemed really happy to remember that and to talk to me so I asked him where he was from. He told me New York. I took up a position next to him as he walked with the rest of the people. This time I decided it was not wise to ask him if he knew he had died. Instead I asked him how old he was and he said 19. I asked him if he knew how he got here. He started to tell me just as I felt myself fading out. I quickly said Thanks and came back.

Interesting read and thanks for sharing. Why did you feel the need not to tell him that he had passed on?

I don't feel I am the one to be telling anyone that. At least not yet. I am on fact finding trips. Gather what info I can out of whoever I run into, and then write it all down when I return. But I am being watched all the time by someone or something. Its like I sit back until I get the "Ok" to go and make contact and once I do it and ask a few questions I get pulled away. But its not always like that, sometimes I get noticed without looking for attention. One trip I found myself next to a long line of people funneling into a building. I stopped and was trying to figure out what was going on when 2 women that were waiting in line noticed me and startled smiling. One of them attempted to touch me but was quickly pulled back by her friend and she said " No, you might scare him "
I said " Hi"
All they did was giggle
The line kept moving and no one else was doing anything interesting so I left.
But anyways, I don't want to be the person who says congratulations your dead. I think Betsons idea of suggestions and nudges would be better to stop any shock

Yes, do what you feel to be appropriate in a specific situation. When I started doing retrievals I wasn't planning what to do, I just did something out of intuition, which I felt might not only come from myself, but from guides nearby, who but remained in the background. You could read the posts in the retrieval section, maybe that would be interesting for you.

Thank you for posting here.

Spooky

I asked her again more sternly...She said her name was Kate.  I asked her for her last name and I had a hard time making it out.  It sounded something like Copert."
 
"I asked him his name and he didn't answer me.  I asked him one more time, and he said, "I'm Reggie."  I said, "Reggie Who?"  He thought for a second and said "Reggie Beastion."  (very hard to make out last names for some reason.)...I asked him where he was from.  He told me New York."
__________________________

Charlie,

I love your determination to acquire specific names and locations with the potential for verifications which are almost never present.  Their absence, in my view, discredits the genuineness of such contacts.  After some awesome OBEs, I now dismiss my own OBEs as bogus--i. e. lucid dreams in disguise. 

Your experiences neatly fit my theory about the inevitability of mistaking lucid dreams (or their waking equivalent) with OBEs (phasing).  The unconscious is constrained by the survival instinct.  It will sabotage any altered state that might discredit what it wants to believe is real.  Either it will not permit qusstions of name, home town, address, and date of birth to come up in the alleged OBE or it will sabotage the clarity of such information to abort potential falsification.  Over the years I have read the many retrieval reports on this site and your report about unclear names seems standard.  My theory allows for exceptions: if the astral traveler is so enslaved to blind belief that he lacks an honest and open quest for the truth, then OBE names can be provided because the unconscious knows the percipient has no interest in verification or the expansion of public knowledge.

I have posted and lurked on this site for several years, and have never seen an OBE report with a convincing verification.  I have read all 3 of Monroe's books and am unimpressed with his alleged verifications (e. g. "the verified pinch;" the alleged encounter with a younger version of his doctor friend).  Even mere lucid dreams, including my own, occasionally achieve minor paranormal information.  But Charlie, you are an OBE novice; yet you seem determined to achieve what so far is lacking in this type of exploration.  I will eagerly lurk here to see if you ever get the kind of verifications that can make the decisive difference in public confidence. 

Emmanuel Swedenberg seemed to be able to acquire them at will, but there are no modern Swedenbergs--Hey, what is your name again--Tunaburger?.  :-)  Keep on posting your experiences.

Don
" 

A few comments which come to mind after reading Berserk's post:

It's a funny thing when people don't trust their own experiences.  It's really no different than not trusting your very self. 

Physical verification of nonphysical experience is borderline illogical. 

Obtaining the name of a deceased individual while out of body will not make the experience any more or less real. 

To believe an OBE is more real than a lucid dream is simply false.  Anyone with a good amount of experience with both knows this. 

I may elaborate more when I get the time.

It is true, that verifications using a phasing method  lucid dream type experience (or imagination) are not always concrete.  However, there are innumerable instances of well defined confirmations from people all over the world; some or many by mediums (George Anderson and others), EVP or other methods.  To dismiss all confirmations as either pure fantasy, "cold reading" or ESP is to apply one's own beliefs and deny the greater possibilities. 

One of the issues that I believe is that our "rational mind" is, in fact grounded in the physical plane in some ways.  Swedenborg writes of spirits unable to communicate that which no longer has a spiritual equivalent in the ethereal plane.  One issue spoken of is the concept of linnear time.  To Swedenborg, many spirits simply could not understand the notion of time passing any more - rather, they understood a change of state, from one state of being to another.

Swedenborg also reports meeting those in spirit who were esteemed "scholars" while alive.  Somehow, they memorized a great deal of factual information.  Yet when they were in the spiritual plane, this factual memorization, bereft of, or uncoupled from a loving intention, appeared to Emmanuel to be incomprehensible gibberish.  Thus some spirits, who were trying to impress him with their knowledge of languages or historical facts, were like fools, no longer grounded in the physical plane.

One must therefore wonder whether these concrete pieces of knowledge (social security numbers, dates of birth, etc.) are as accessible in a spiritual plane.  Clearly, they are not very accessible in our dream life. 

How long does it take a child or adult to learn a language?  Then when dead and in spirit, for how long are we fluent in that language or the expression of precise numbers, like we were in the physical plane?  What if I, Matthew passed into spirit and found out that Matthew was only a small part of my true nature or identity?  For how long what I be able to recite chapter and verse about the street number where I lived while incarnate, or my date of birth?  Wouldn't it seem that the recently deceased would have the most access to this sort of verification? But after the layers of earth life are peeled off in our own examinations, isn't the greater realization that this earthly memory minutia is not truly what our greater nature is all about? 

This thread fits in nicely to a thread I plan to start after labor day on rational thought and the afterlife.  Somehow, our different states of consciousness should be reconciled when exploring different realms.


Matthew

I am familiar with lucid dreams and they are different than an OBE. ( at least to me ) During a lucid dream you are in control of everything and can change events and objects with thoughts. Its also different entering each one. I will wake up in a dream and realize I'm, dreaming. To have an OBE I enter it while my body is asleep but I'm wide awake and excited because I know a trip awaits An OBE trip is filled with emotions. You can feel wind, warmth of the sun, sand in your hands and between your fingers. Its a different experience and I believe you don't always remember it.I have never tried to measure time, but I know when I have been out a very long time because when I return I am completely and totally lost. I stumble around and it will take me 5 minutes or so to realize just where I am. And sometimes its not always that easy to come back. One return trip I saw my body laying on the bed and just decided to lay into it. I got right into it but I couldn't get back it. I tried again and it still didn't work. The 3rd time I laid perfectly into myself and then tried to move my right finger and snap, I was right in. If you read Monroe's first book he talks about having almost the EXACT same trouble once. Many of his experiences in that first book mirror mine.
What I really want to do is find that park/reception area.
In the meantime I will continue my fact finding trips and will start asking dates of birth. I wont bother asking SSN numbers because I can barely remember my own.

CharleyTuna wrote on Aug 30^th, 2009 at 6:50pm:

I asked Kate where she was from and she said Arizona. I asked what town and she said something that sounded like Zooma.

Just FYI: There is a city in Arizona named Yuma, could be the Zooma you refer to.

That's fun!  :D

Her new-found zooming abilities mixed in
with her memories of Earth life!

That does support the idea that souls don't keep alot of Earth memories in their Afterlife existence.

Sounds like a good motto for the Yuma Tourist Bureau--
"Come Zoomin' in Yuma!"  :)

Bets

I have a question that may or may not have been addressed -in Bruce's books he mentions that while doing retrievals and other non-physical activities there are sometimes living people -sleepers/dreamers who are observing as well. If we come across people who seem to be unresponsive or uncaring how does one know they have actually passed over and are not simply asleep? Or maybe the sense Charlie got not to mention they had died was a hint that he should not as they were not?

Mark wrote on Sep 4^th, 2009 at 1:15pm:

I have a question that may or may not have been addressed -in Bruce's books he mentions that while doing retrievals and other non-physical activities there are sometimes living people -sleepers/dreamers who are observing as well. If we come across people who seem to be unresponsive or uncaring how does one know they have actually passed over and are not simply asleep? Or maybe the sense Charlie got not to mention they had died was a hint that he should not as they were not?

That IS a good question!

How Can you tell the difference between a disembodied soul who is stuck, and just a dreamer that is asleep? I never thought about that!

charley
fascinating story,but what kind of astral plane was that supposed to be,what level?..As i understand it,according to communicators from the afterlife,there are seven planes of existence..

The four planes of form

1.Earth ( including earth bound spirits)

2. Hades (or the intermediate state,including purgatory)

3.The plane of illusion (or lower astral)

4. The plane of colour (or upper astral or summerland)

The three formless planes (or planes of pure consciousness)

Yes, I've read about the seven planes of consciousness as well in various forms over the years. However, I just wonder if some of those (particularly Hades and Purgatory) are BSTs in themselves?
As a side issue (and forgive me if this appears to be a stupid question) over 'the other side' is there any sense of passing time? I notice in RAM's account of the Michael tape that he's been clinging to a piece of wood after his ship went down in the afterlife for over a century (if memory serves) but to Michael it seemed like a few hours.
Does this mean that there's no concept of linear time over there, or is all time happening at once and we can dip in and out of parts of linear time with the right techniques? If so, could I (in theory at least) travel into the future and see what I'm doing as well as going back into the past, whether a few decades or many thousands of years (or even further?) . Are the past and future constantly changing as we exist and make decisions. If the past is not changeable, then does that mean that the future is already written in stone, or is it only a probability which can be changed by our intentiosn and actions?
Sorry if this has wandered off subject, but to me it feels like a paradox that must have some kind of answer.
Any ideas folks?

Best wishes,
David.

Mark, every human spirit I have run into and made contacted with had no physical body. For instance, Reggie, the military guy, I know he died so fast it was instantaneous. When I came across him he was playing his last memories over and over trying to find out how he got to that field he now found himself in. He did not know his body died. How could he be dead ?
He was still thinking, walking and talking.  Now you may ask,  how do I know that. Well I cant answer because I don't know, you will just know. I have never run into any sleepers so I cant answer that question. Iank I have never heard of the 4 planes. Imagine a piece of blank paper with a dot in the middle and then a bunch of rings around that dot ( sorta like the planet Saturn ) The dot represents earth, and the rings are focus levels. If you ask me, your idea sounds basically the same. Confusion arises when people try to translate non physical environments into physical. In my opinion, Monroe's and Bruce's books are without a doubt the best attempts at making that translation into something that you can visualize and make sense out of.