I used to have the same idea of afterlife as most of you do, but lately I've been seeing the world with an different perspective.

My view is that we are all born blanks and as we get older our personality is formed by everything that accords in our life. So, our complex brain starts believe that we are an curtain person and we have our aspects on life and everything life holds.
When we die and our brain stops working the person whom we have become dies with it.
As for near death experience, what I think happens is that our brain is still working and we start dreaming. Just like people who are in a coma or when we sleep.
I have tired to reach different focus levels. I've twice had the experience of meeting deceased people and they tried to show me afterlife and explain it to me. But what I think happened is that I wanted to explore afterlife so much that I went to a dreamlike stage and my mind made up these persons I met.

I would like it very much that there would be a life after this one, so please prove me wrong.    

Hello Guns:

I can't say I agree with you.  When it comes to what people experience during NDEs, some of what they experience is way beyond what is experienced while in this World. This being the case, I don't see how their minds could create such experiences.

I had an experience sort of like an NDE without a near death incident, and what I experienced is so certain it is hard to doubt. This is especially so, because there is a way of understanding that takes place during such experiences that is beyond what the doubtful parts of our mind can understand. If sceptics of NDEs experienced what people experience during NDEs, I doubt they would be skeptics.

Consider how people who have been blind all of their life are able to see during their NDEs.

Besides the experience I wrote about above, I've had many other experiences including numerous communications with spirit beings, and it is very clear to me that I've experienced something more than my mere imagination, even if I don't consider instances when I received information I had no way of knowing about.

Plus, being in contact with my my higher self and spirit guidance has helped me grow in very noticeable ways.

Hi guns.If we did not have a spirit in are bodys,we would die.the body does nothing.it is the spirit that makes it move.you are not your body.George

Hi Guns, I am quoting just from the last portion of your question here. You said:
"I have tired to reach different focus levels. I've twice had the experience of meeting deceased people and they tried to show me afterlife and explain it to me. But what I think happened is that I wanted to explore afterlife so much that I went to a dreamlike stage and my mind made up these persons I met. "
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I think this is the point that Bruce Moen suggests that you experiment with the kind of information you get while you move through the focus levels. See if you can get some concrete information, specific questions answered. This proves your sources to you. It sounds to me like you are very close to being able to do that, if you have spoken to a few 'characters' out there.

Many members of this forum have been able to do just that. They are fully convinced, due to evidence which was clear to them. Perhaps what you seek is actually forthcoming. Keep trying, is my advice. One thing is, it is important to maintain a certain level of detachment until you get 'into' the experience. The only way I know how to describe it is that it is like stepping off of a very very very very teeny tiny step/ledge/ciiff edge into....somewhere. In the past, in my experiences, it has felt kind of like dropping off the edge, but without being startled or overly intrigued emotionally. At that point, I have to 'let things happen' and have not learned any special control or 'artistry'  to handle it, not that I have noticed. Others have developed quite a lot of control, from what I have read.

How did the experience go, when you were 'touring' the afterlife? I think that sounds pretty interesting.

I spent a lot of time, at least 10 years, seeking proof that their is no afterlife and it kept bringing me to the same conclusion ...that there is one. Physics points to C1 being a subset of another superset. Of course there are many scientists who can't let go of the idea that C1 is the superset. They are the same ones, no doubt, who insisted that the world was flat and the earth was the center of the universe. There is much better evidence for an afterlife especially if you try to prove that there is none.

thanks for you're answers, especially then one I got from recoverer, it made me doubt my doubt of afterlife.

Beau, can you please explain C1 to my, never heard of it before.

You're welcome.

If I may ask everyone who currently believes that there IS an afterlife:

What would your top-3, or top-5, or top-10 books be in regards to what convinces you there is an afterlife?

Thanks

The first and biggest influence which shaped my current beliefs regarding the afterlife was Robert Monroe's Ultimate Journey.

Mark,I dont give much thought to books about the afterlife.I go on my own experiences that I had that proves to me that there is an afterlife.I have seen a lot of people that I know who have died,even in broard daylight.George.Thats why im not afraid to die.George

Guns:
This world is 'interactive' with our imaginations, and gives me verification in subtle ways. This is in 'C1' as it is sometimes called here.

Recoverer speaks of experiences that he knows he could not have imagined. This happened to me last night in a meditation. It was far beyond what I expected, like I moved up several levels in clarity, and the intensity of the experience was remarkable.

When people here talk about us, as human beings, being far more than our physical bodies, they are not kidding. The guides will take you as far as you are willing to open up, to let down the 'guard' which insists on interpreting for itself. The guides can show you more when you let them show you more. This can take repeated efforts, repeated study. We are constantly learning and growing, building on our previous experiences, just as you say. My own point of view was exactly like the one you reported, and I still doubt, or shall I say 'wonder' every single day.

But more experiences like the one I had last night will definitely show me what I need to know, to be fully and completely, without a doubt, convinced.

I am working in a level between lives. I will continue to work there for a while.

Mark, Books:
For me it is not a book, or specific books. It is not a specific experience, either.

However, I highly recommend Bruce Moen's books, and the books of Robert Monroe. I recommend any books of spiritual wisdom. I recommend high quality cds with meditation training that works for you. Even this internet is a source of support for me.

Sorry Guns, there is no one here that can prove the afterlife for you. You will need to do that all on your own. At least you are understanding the possibility of there being one, as you seem to be looking for proof. You will get there one day. By keeping your mind open to the possibilities of things not currently within your scope of reality,.. will keep you moving towards a place that is very exciting and fulfilling. I doubt that the knowledge you seek will be found in any book as books represent viewpoints and nothing more. That's not to say that you shouldn't read the books mentioned here as they can help in opening your mind to the many differant possibilities, but its important to develop your own viewpoint and become your own leader and not just one who follows like a well trained pet. Good luck on your journey of knowledge and discovery! There are many here that can help you along the way. Bruces book are great, as are Bob Monroes. Among many others. But remember that these books mention ways to experience possible understandings of the afterlife. They are just one mans way of doing so and by no means represent the only ways. The experiences they write about are how they have come to understand the messages they have received. Good luck!

The best book on this topic in my opinion is Reasonable Faith by William Lane Craig.  It's written at about a upper division college level text, so its not the easiest to digest, but he is phenomenal.... WLC also verbally debates some of the most prominent atheists and anti religious academic types and wins in my opinion.  It's also definitely worth downloading some of his debates on mp3 format and listening to them.  His latest debate for instance was with Christopher Hitchens (God is Not Great author), although that debate I can't find for free, rather just for purchase (all of his others are accessible for free however).

I think there are a lot of great books out there for fine tuning one's belief in the afterlife, but each one I read seems to unlock new and interesting thoughts. Right now I'm reading My Big TOE by Thomas Campbell and I really really like it. There's no religious connotation to it but there is a morality to it. I also spent a month or two at his website before I ordered the trilogy. If you  are serious about figuring it out, even if you don't like what he says, his book is worth the read. I found Bruce's and even Bob's books hard to get into at first because they required a lot from my imagination. The pay off for doing your own search is priceless. It will only happen for you that way. If you can get past the idea that C1 (Here and Now, sort of) is a super set --which it is not and which Campbell is very good at proving, then you realize that the superset has to be non physical...and our waking life is a subset of that consciousness. If you turn yourself over to the journey and you are truly open minded but skeptical you will find what you are looking for. Best of wishes your way, friend.

Hi Guns,

I found this link that might help a bit...maybe. It's Campbell explaining some aspects of gathering info about NPMR (anything that isn't C-1) C1 = PMR in his information. I think he makes a lot of sense.

http://www.my-big-toe.com/phpBB34/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2915&hilit=

Man -- no one can prove anything that will satisfy you.  >:(

However -- if you open your eyes and look around -- you will see lots of evidence to suggest that souls exist and your this life is simply an incarnation.

There have been many documented cases of people going into hypnosis and speaking different languages,  knowing details about past events for which they did not have knowledge. Being able to provide details about battles, etc. Micheal Newton used to be believe your model - we are just a collection of brain functions and cells. This was true until he put under thousands of people and they told countless events of past history and all told of the same details about the spirit world. There are also alot of people doing that type of work.

Myself - i have had a past life regression and i told details of a 1776 battle and being a British solider training in Winchester.  Trust me - i am in the high tech field, and i have no clue about history. How did i know these dates and details about various battles and dates. After listing to my type and then using Google to do research -- i had chills.

There has also been many countless details throughout the world of ghosts. If we all just died when out bodies give out -- there would be no ghosts. People have typed objects moving, etc. There are even police records that can;t be explained.

I personally believe ghosts and newer sprits that do not want to move over to the spirit world.

So -- i would agrue with you that there is way more evidence to suggest that we are spritual beings than just a collection of cells and brain functions.

(1) Wilson Van Dusen, "The Presence of Other Worlds"
I have read widely on afterlife evidence.  Van Dusen's  chapter entitled "Minor Miracles," is by far the most impressive reading on such evidence I have ever encountered.  The chapter details the best verified evidence provided by the best verified astral explorer who ever lived, Emnanuel Swedenborg.  

(2) David Fontana, "Is There An Afterlife?  A Comprehensive Overview of the Evidence"

This book is by far the most comprehensive work of its kind.  Even so, it is not as impressive as my first choice.  By the way, I think Robert Monroe and Michael Newton ironically provide a disturbing case AGAINST an after, even though they purport to do the opposite!

Don

I've decided to give both of those books a try.  Thanks Berserk2.

Why do you say that Monroe provided a case against an afterlife?

'Survival beyond physical death is not a belief system therefore but a simple fact as natural as being born" - Robert Monroe " Far Journeys".

No person or book can prove to you beyond doubt that there is 'life' beyond death but you can prove it to yourself.
Trying to get it intellectually will never prove it to you absolutely.
When you accumulate the evidence, by direct experience, by yourself that there are things you can do and see that are classed impossible otherwise ,you are well on your way to proving it to yourself.
It doesn't matter what  anyone believes , it only matters what you know.  :)

For what it's worth I found Fontana's book a bit light where I really needed something solid to bite into, you know.

As for Swedenbourg, well I think what he writes is quite interesting, but I can't get past the idea that he is writing for a simpler time with a smaller reality of understanding than we have now. And that's why I like Moen and Monroe and Thomas Campbell. But like everyone else says too, you have to find your own way to this stuff.

pedigree wrote on Jun 20^th, 2009 at 9:46pm:

'Survival beyond physical death is not a belief system therefore but a simple fact as natural as being born" - Robert Monroe " Far Journeys". No person or book can prove to you beyond doubt that there is 'life' beyond death but you can prove it to yourself. Trying to get it intellectually will never prove it to you absolutely. When you accumulate the evidence, by direct experience, by yourself that there are things you can do and see that are classed impossible otherwise ,you are well on your way to proving it to yourself. It doesn't matter what  anyone believes , it only matters what you know.  :)

Wise words.

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Guns wrote on Jun 9^th, 2009 at 6:46pm:

I used to have the same idea of afterlife as most of you do, but lately I've been seeing the world with an different perspective. My view is that we are all born blanks and as we get older our personality is formed by everything that accords in our life. So, our complex brain starts believe that we are an curtain person and we have our aspects on life and everything life holds. When we die and our brain stops working the person whom we have become dies with it. As for near death experience, what I think happens is that our brain is still working and we start dreaming. Just like people who are in a coma or when we sleep. I have tired to reach different focus levels. I've twice had the experience of meeting deceased people and they tried to show me afterlife and explain it to me. But what I think happened is that I wanted to explore afterlife so much that I went to a dreamlike stage and my mind made up these persons I met. I would like it very much that there would be a life after this one, so please prove me wrong.

Try not to focus just try to BE AT ONE

Here is way you can know there is an afterlife. If you do not feel utter desolation to the very core of your being, God lives in you, god is infinite and eternal, your are a fragment of that infinity and it can never be extinguished because because infinity simply is infinity

The brain is not the soul of mind, it is the hard drive, the processor of your mortal body. The mind download constantly onto the brain right up to death and a little beyond and that is why some of us remember events from a near death experience


The Cosmic “the Soul” personalized is an infinitesimal part of God in man. Just as a drop of water from the ocean has all the ingredients in the ocean, this “the Soul” has all the powers of God.

However, just as a drop of water from the ocean does not make up the ocean, the “the Soul” of one person does not make up God’s “the Soul”. All the drops joined together become the ocean; all the “the Soul”s in the universe together make up God’s Cosmic Soul”.

The Soul” is the source of all happiness, all misery, health, and disease, abundance and lack, riches and poverty, joy and sorrow. As the greatest

Our “ Soul” is a microcosm and creates the macrocosm universe and more until it all consolidates into the GODHEAD.

If you experience these things then you have an eternal soul,do you think a state of soullessness emptiness exists in you?

If you do you must and would die, By that I mean your physical body will die, because it is your soul or mind that sustains it as one harmonious organism

Like a laser beam, “the Soul” can focus its attention on the smallest atom or see the whole universe as if it is a speck. “the Soul” can become part of the environment and embrace the entire cosmos.

I know this is true, because when I died during my NDE I became god for a few wonderful inexplicable moments outside of linear time and space  

The speed of thought is more than the speed of light. In a millisecond, “the Soul” can reach the farthest galaxy, billions of light years away.

It is instantaneous and unlimited by space or time. For example, the precocious genius Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart said that he could hear a musical work as a single event and not successively.

What is thought what is conciousness ??

What “the Soul” is and where it is situated has been debated for centuries. Rarely two philosophers agree on one definition or location for “the Soul”.

Rene Descartes, French philosopher, scientist, and mathematician said that there is a total and absolute distinction between mental and material substance and that “the Soul” he said situated in the pineal gland. I disagree the soul is a quantum energy field hovering around our body, especially the head area near the brain and many see it as an aura

“The Soul” is non material and cannot become part of a material such as the brain, pineal gland or amygdala.

We can go through every nerve cell, analyze electrochemically, spectroscopically, mass-photographically, electronically, and, using all known tests, we will not find any indication of “the Soul”.

There is no single location for the “the Soul”. The human “the Soul” is distributed throughout the human body and its environment.

Every cell has its own “the Soul” and has the ability to function independently or jointly with all the cells of the body.

For example, a neuron is capable of deciding whether it will transmit information to another nerve cell and, if it will, to which one among the thousands of cells with which it is in contact.

Similarly, endocrine cells decide whether they will respond to a demand for a particular enzyme by cells in another far corner of the body.

Even sponge cells exhibit a similar capacity of awareness. When a piece of sponge is ground up and individual cells are suspended in solution, they will come together and become a complete sponge within a few hours.

This indicates that each cell has a “ Soul” of its own to decide to combine with another sponge cell and with which of the thousands of cells floating in solution.

Just as each of the thousand pieces of a splintered mirror will show the same reflection of an object as the whole mirror, each cell reflects our “the Soul” and each cell in the universe we humans etc, reflects the universal

SOUL CALLED BY US as GOD.

Alan

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