Even though I just became a member on this forum, I have been on this site reading all the threads for a little over a year.  I joined the site because I finallly gathered the courage to begin exploring myself.  But it seems that this forum is much less active now than it was back then.  It seems like there has been a spiritual drought here.  Has everyone already talked about everything this is to talk about?  Is noone exploring anymore?  Or just keeping things to themselves?

Your perception is correct and I will probably take another prolonged absence because of the lack of stimulating discussion that used to characterize this site.  But I do have a suggestion.  Survey the many pages of threads posted during the past few years and respond to one that intrigues you.  By doing so, you will bring back topics that might stimlulate the kind of discussion we used to have.

Don

Everything happens in cycles...
Plus there are many more sites out there too.  People are 'exploring' those as well I would assume....

cycle is a good word....quiet times are natural

i know people who are really really really uncomfortable with 'quiet' times, so much so that they must 'fill them up' with something

so they throw 'something' into the mix

nothing wrong with that...creative, if you ask me

but i don't mind a little silence either....gives me the feeling of people quietly gathering their strength for what is next

and, after all, it is spring, where i live...don't people have a little wanderlust in these times?

then again, we could all simply be terrible bores
that's always a possibility

i go out and look at the other interesting sites....witness the adrenaline rushes...listen to the music...listen to a story

a friend of mine says in passing that he thinks about death every day...what a good thing it is to think about one's death every day, and i have to agree

that's why i come to this site, to think about life, to think about death, to wonder what i am missing at any given moment

there is always something interesting around the corner, so it seems
------------------

i just noticed this article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8021845.stm

it's about a message in a bottle, a message from Auschwitz, from some inmates from France and Poland, a message written in 1944, found in a wall, hidden for all these years...

they wanted to be remembered

so many things are like that, just like that

Hi

I agree with what's being said
and would like to add that IMO we could do alot more discussing if folks would read (Bruce's) books so that we have some terms and concepts we can share. It's impossible to get to the truths here without some background in this field.

Betson

Having been a member of AK website for over 10 years, having read all of Bruce's books (and many many others since the early 1970s), and having gone to Bruce's workshop, I think what's going on is that a lot of folks are just burned out.

Although the website is called Afterlife Knowledge, let's face it....we really don't know much of anything about what the afterlife is like and what goes on there.  I have yet to read a comprehensive description of life on the "other side."  I don't think there is such a thing with the possible exception of ES' books.

Yes, plenty of NDE stories etc but those don't describe what goes on in the afterlife.  

Another problem is that many of the "old timers" on this board who really had intellectually stimulating contributions have left.  

Years ago Bruce was very active on the board.  When he became more or less absent, the board wandered all over the place and lost its focus.

Having said all of this, it's maybe for the best.  We are all living a physical life for a reason.  I doubt the best way of living our lives is to immerse ourselves in endless speculations about the afterlife. We'll get there soon enough.  

In the meantime it seems to me far more important to shut off the computer and hopefully fulfill the purpose for which we were born in the first place.

Well I for one, have to say that things are going quite wonderfully for me spiritually.  No drought.  Doing well spiritually doesn't mean you have to do a lot of non-physical traveling. It is more about finding ways to let go of limitations so you can live according to love more completely. I have enough information to know that a wonderful future awaits me. I believe this is so for all other souls, even though some souls ("seem") to take a longer time getting there than other souls.

The more we let go of limitations, the more we recapture our spirit selves. One limitation we need to let go of is the fear of making contact with our spirit selves, which are connected to the rest of the World of spirit. Since we always have the choice when it comes to what kind of person/being we want to be, we don't have to worry about making conscious contact with unfriendly spirits.  If we have good intentions, we'll make contact with spirits who love us dearly and have our best interests in mind. They'll reveal things to us in a manner that is certain, even if the way we do so doesn't follow the guidelines of skeptics. When you find that you are feeling more and more like a light being even while human, you'll know that you're doing well.

Hi
I've noticed the quiet not only on this board, but other boards that deal with the afterlife/otherside stuff that I go on.
So.. maybe it's just quiet time, and that's ok

Aras

Aras wrote on Apr 28^th, 2009 at 2:43pm:

Hi I've noticed the quiet not only on this board, but other boards that deal with the afterlife/otherside stuff that I go on. So.. maybe it's just quiet time, and that's ok Aras

That could be true.  I am not on that many Spiritual Boards or boards that are just Spiritual Based.
However, the Astal Pulse seems to be doing just fine.  They are steady.
Here is a link to their STATS
It is a pretty good forum.

My home forum is up and we carry all sorts of 'Not So Normal Subjects' too.  ;)
Spirituality being just one of them...
However, we have a 'TV Station' now and we are getting hits from that.

Here is TVOM
There is OnDemand too.  Very Decent Programing here...all Free.
No money is made at all for Open Minds forum.

Old Dood,
I visit the astral pulse site too. It's a good one, and a lot going on there it seems all the time.
Thanks for posting your links too!

Aras

Alan is what happened here.  He basically ruined the site in my opinion.  Even older posters who were difficult (Chumley and what was the other one's name - Space... hmm?) were never as personally insulting and incredibly hypocritical as Alan.  At least you could have deep conversations with them, and they wouldn't begin threads with self congratulatory ego masturbation that tries to pass as spirituality, with half the site's readers buying it.

http://afterlife-knowledge.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1198056872/5#5

Blaming one person for the slow down of traffic on this site is a cop out.  If there is a thread I want to reply to (or don't) I make the choice - and so can anyone.  An open forum means, much like the real world, we will have people of many different backgrounds

Now it is true that some posters, when they are eager will post 5-10 new threads a day, and that alone may make it a more difficult board to appreciate, but we manage.  

If you want the board to be more active, or discuss certain topics, then take the initiative.  Give some thought to your interests and respond to a post or start your on thread.


M

A cop out?  Doc is seems like you are not willing to read the thread that I indicated and then attack the conclusion without looking at the evidence.  If you had something to say about the thread in which Alan is exposed for who he is then your response would be more appropriate.

I did post, quite a lot, before I became disgusted with posts that we're self aggrandizing b.s. and a community that was willing to sacrifice truth and critical thought for keeping things nice and pleasant.

I would say an example of a cop out would be placating a plagiarizer, or not calling him out on inappropriate behavior, or not noticing the glaring hypocrisy involved when it's coming from someone who is claiming to be so spiritually advanced.

I don't agree with everything Alan says, but I'm happy he's here.  Sometimes we do agree. Even when we don't, I don't take offense, because I believe each person should be free to make his or her point. If we don't agree with what he or she says, just say so.

Prateykya,

I read the thread.  I know Alan plagiarized his post/thread  I chose not to comment on it, simply because it was brought to everyone's attention and then fell into the abyss, as many threads do.  My expressing scorn for Alan would accomplish nothing.  He did wrong, and while I didn't like it, I felt that for me, it could drop.  

Like I said, we have all kinds of people on this forum.  So many different cultures, beliefs and feelings.  I will call someone out if I think they are out of line, but I won't belabor the point after that.  You did the right thing - and then it should drop.  

Instead of lambasting Alan, I chose to find threads I wanted to respond to, or to create my own.  

You should post more, even if you go against the grain of New Age thought; I for one would love hearing more from you.
M

My personal view as one who has been absent for a variety of reasons is that perhaps the site has become very focused on the intellectual discussion of what amount to hypothetical and technical matters.

Now this may well apply to me as much as anybody else, but it leads to a sort of directionless babble. (Buddhists refer to the the phenomenon as 'dharma babble')

While intellectual understanding can be an important tool in reducing the fears that block the dropping of limiting beliefs and our opening, and in gaining some understanding of what to expect on the path and how to respond it  - it very easily becomes an end in itself, something else for ego to fasten on to.

Getting grounded in this territory means in my view staying with the knitting - the meditation, self enquiry and study/reading as necessary - and then dealing with the help of others with issues arising out of our own experience.

Getting involved as a means of gaining intellectual stimulation is no different to reading pulp fiction - all it's doing is filling the mind space that had it been left open might have led to insight and progress.

There's nothing to be gained from interminable discussions in an attempt to in any finite way 'understand' the afterlife (and even 'afterlife is a questionable term), because it's by definition not capable of objective intellectual/conceptual understanding. Making an objective of this will bury us in babble forever.

The other factor that's really important is to keep it motivated by the urge to help and be kind to others others as opposed to the need to project ourselves, and to avoid the emergence of the sort of intensity that tends to suck others into argument.

Most of us very easily get sucked into the babble space, adversarial tendencies soon follow, and the vibe heads out the window. It behoves us all to be very mindful of what we may be projecting.

The other problem with the babble space is that when its feeding what's essentially the ego urge to be entertained it inevitably in the end becomes boring as the topics start to repeat, others start to grate and people will peel away.

My sense is that if all will work towards the sort of calm, easily paced, supportive and insightful environment that was around that many will return.

Please don't take this as dissing anybody.....

<<There's nothing to be gained from interminable discussions in an attempt to in any finite way 'understand' the afterlife (and even 'afterlife is a questionable term), because it's by definition not capable of objective intellectual/conceptual understanding. Making an objective of this will bury us in babble forever.>>

Well said Vajra.  Even assuming there is an afterlife (whatever that term means), we end up spinning a circular path that invariably leads right back to the starting point.  !0 years from now, or a 100, if all of us lived that long and the board was still in existence, we wouldn't be any further along in our quest to pin down conclusively the mystery of what (if anything) lies beyond this life.

So maybe it's the journey, not the destination, that we should focus on.

I mean, there is so much in our own physical world that is wonderful and should be explored.  Great literature for example.  Uplifting poetry, art, music, etc.  And yet there are some folks who spend countless hours creating countless posts speculating about this or that aspect of a possible afterlife.  Strikes me as such a pointless waste of time.

I realize there are exceptions.  Some posts are truly thought provoking and well thought out. There ARE things that fall outside the physical senses and that hint at something beyond our physical world. There are credible people who have experienced incredible things.  I like to hear about those stories as much as anyone.

I just think it's a matter of balance.  And having our priorities in the right order.

Varja,

That's quite an intellectual post about the dangers of intellectual posts, and by your own words, dharma babble. See the snake biting its tail? - On the other hand you make several points, but discussing/commenting them now seems not to be an option if one doesn't share the same view, the same way of expression, as that might be adversial, ego, and babble. Hmm. Babble space up ahead? Oh, well.

Helping others can be helpful. Sometimes it can also be helpful to let go of the ego gratification one get out of being a helper, and allow others to learn to help themselves.

Volu wrote on Apr 29^th, 2009 at 2:10pm:

Varja, Helping others can be helpful. Sometimes it can also be helpful to let go of the ego gratification one get out of being a helper, and allow others to learn to help themselves.

Yes, the EGO can do more harm then good at times.
I see way too much ego behind many people's posts...even with good intentions.
I am not immune to this either but, I am aware of it...

Hi Guys,

If your interested, I am also a member of a web site www.mybigtoe.com it is run by Tom Campbell who  along with another fellow produced the hemi-sync music at the Monroe Institute and actually built the lab and Chec units for Bob and in return Bob taught him what he knew about OBE and what not, He has since taken his explorations/knowledge to another level and is constintly on line and helping/replying to others who have questions and need answers or a better understanding.

Have a great day.

Toby

 First off I would like to say that I like Vajra and respect what he has to say, even if I don't always agree with him (and he gently disagrees with me).  The reminder that intellectual discussion of issues having their limits and being a means rather than an end is a good one to keep in mind.  I would say though that having said that, logic and rational thought do have their place, not just for knocking down intellectual barriers to leading a spiritual life but also for building it up for those who are so inclined.  It's just that this kind of rational thought without it moving towards action (loving actions or intuitive interaction with something greater than ourselves) can be worthless or even harmful if it doesn't lead to better interaction.  The bible (which I know is not the best authority on this site) makes the case in the book of James when it says 'You believe in God?  Good!  But even the demons believe, and shudder.  Faith without works is dead'.
 Aside from the self refuting issue which will lead nowhere, the other issue is what I wanted to respond to: is it appropriate to be caught up in the enjoyment of doing good things to others?  I would say yes.  I would say this is a healthy and self sustaining form of doing good things toward others.  Not in the way that we feel better comparatively to others because these actions are done (God, thank you that I am not like other men), but because of the alleviation of suffering or bringing of good to others (God thank you for the opportunity to make that homeless guys' day better).
 However, some might argue that thinking about the betterment we bring to others at all is a type of selfishness, even if it is a good type of selfishness.  Some might say that we should not be in the equation at all, that good actions should be done without ego.  I am not sure (at least for myself) that this is self sustaining or possible over a long term for a spiritual life - I think most people in essence are hedonists, need some pleasure, and the important thing is to change motivations through good action and reflective thinking so that the things we take pleasure in are good actions towards others.

Related to what Pratekya just wrote, you don't have to an enlightened being who has supposedly completely overcome his or her ego in order be motivated by love. Divine inspiration doesn't require that we stop believing in the existence of our soul.

As we try to balance ourselves out, we'll have a mixture of motivations to deal with.  It isn't an all or nothing affair. If there is a such thing as an ego based strategy, perhaps an all or nothing approach is such a strategy. With such a strategy you don't have to deal with particulars.  

That's very true R. We almost all have a way to go it seems, and as a result we are to varying degrees prone to heading into more or less egotistical  territory without being aware of it.

The point is not that the intellect or intellectual discussion has no role to play - rational judgement aided by the sort of intuitive knowing that emerges over time is critical. Otherwise we are lost.

But there are many forms of ego driven relating to the intellect.

- Our society, pace of living and what has become the prevailing scientific and philosophical dogma tend to value linear intellectual (relative and hence limited) logic above all, and conditions us in all sorts of way to default to that mode of understanding.

- Most of us struggle to exist with internal silence - our rush to entertainment/diversion/ease of boredom is in essence an ego driven urge to fill this space.

- Many of us use our intellect as a tool to dominate others.

- Many of us become addicted to the process unravelling intellectual puzzles.

- Many of us have a tendency to see the speed of our mind accelerate without being aware of it. With this loss of mindfulness comes the risk of sliding into 'vibe changing' behaviours.

- We can as you say even turn apparently 'spiritual' or 'loving' behaviours into ever more subtle forms of self aggrandsement - spiritual materialism is the term i've heard used. We may even like to have others come on to us in this way, in that it's representative of what  traditional religion has often made seem normal.

One problem is that the intuitive knowing/feeling/seeing that leads to spiritual development is drowned out in the resulting clamour of excessive internal dialogue. Our task is to balance and integrate this knowing with the intellect - it's not a case of either/or.

So it's a very subtle balance, and one not easily understood - let alone a place often found in practice. Study and intellectual engagement have their place, but easily are hijacked by ego to take us into spaces like the above.

It makes perfect sense to seek to gain a broad understanding of our experience, in that it helps accelerates the process of growth. But it's unlikely that we're going to ever in our lifetime bottom an objective understanding that is better than a partially true one sided perception of what's going down. That's not to say it's impossible, but guess what - if we realise this it's unlikely to be an intellectual understanding and much more likely an intuitive knowing.

So it's better not to let this quest grow into a lifetime diversion up what's likely to be a dead end, or to become a quest, or lose its lightness and sense of fun and adventure. The compulsive urge to know and understand rather than to trust and go with the flow of life is yet another symptom of our basic problem.

As above i offer this only as my rather poorly put take on what are pretty standard spiritual teachings. I make no claim whatsoever to have somehow transcended this problem myself - this i recognise as fact. I have to apologise if i seemed to be targeting anybody, because that was not the intention - i haven't even been around enough in recent months enough to do more than get a flavour for what the vibe is.

Even more fundamentally we cannot be what we are not. Acting out some sort of pious 'spiritual' pattern of behaviour will get us no where either. There is however a lot to be gained if each of us can recognise that this is a valid risk, do our best to gain a feeling for where the balance lies and act accordingly - because if we're undisciplined and unthinking in our actions the effect on the vibe and degree of sublimated aggression and competition can escalate like of a spark coming in contact with an inflammable material.

This might mean stuff like: maintain a high degree of mindfulness of our behaviours, seek always to remain gentle - doing our best not to intensify the vibe. Be open to and responsive if others hint that maybe we could tone it down a little. And perhaps most of all try to raise issues out of our actual life situation and experiences rather than because they just happen to tickle our intellectual fancy.

From the other side its important that when one or more of us does get 'carried away'  (like me) ::) that we observe, act precisely if required, and out of a wishing to do what's best for all do our best not to get sucked into reactive responses.

Please pardon me if i seem to be lecturing, or the pot is calling the kettle black. I just felt that as somebody that's not been posting lately i amounted to a relatively neutral observer.

:) I'll go away now.....