Greetings,

If you are going OB then you have increased the rate and efficiency of  your subtle body energies /chakras (or at least this is how it's described in some models of out of body experiences. )

And with that clearer faster energy you may have sensed that the seven chakras on/in the torso and head are supplemented by at last one below (the root chakra) and at least one above (named something is Sanskrit, I seem to recall.)

The root chakra is like a tail and also like an energy conductor. Its vibration feels slower and wider than others.  I think it keeps us grounded as well as supplying us with a base of vitality. Perhaps it's referred to in martial arts as an aid to staying balanced?

My real question though is ---
Have you ever been aware of the root chakra while OBing?
I find that I cannot have any sense of the root chakra if I want to disengage my other subtle bodies in order to 'fly.' It seems to be counterproductive to true OBs.
Have your experiences with the root chakra been 'positive' or 'negative' ?

Bets

Delicately put Bets.  ;) I think there's a definite stage we go through where raising our energy can cause sexual feelings, with an associated urge to dissipate this energy through sexual or other compensatory activity. Or cause fear, as a result of a lack of rootedness.

One of the keys to being able to maintain a raised energy state seems to be the ability to avoid dissipation and fear, to rest easily in this more highly energetic state.

This I guess is why abstinence has got stitched into so many traditions, and was escalated to prudery and an obsessive form of denial in the case of Christianity. Also why so many reject out of hand anything that doesn't go 'clunk' when you kick it.

As ever when it's happening right it seems to happen easily, and feel right. My personal experience is that over the years one becomes better able to contain and rest in the energy, that eventually it's directed towards other ends.

The eastern tantric traditions comprise a whole science of working with them, one which as ever is often misunderstood or lost the resulting charged innuendo.

As ever it's something that is dealt with correctly when the time is right, when we have developed sufficient equanimity.

Prior to this we commonly get into the above obsessive denial, or into indulgence, or suppress urges to the spiritual. Or at least reside in an edgy stasis caught between urges.

These behaviours I guess constitute the good old ego yet again trying to use even the urge to higher knowing for its own ends...

Hi Vajra,

good to hear from you.
Maybe a tantric website would be a better place to post this concern -- Do they OB alot or stay in the physical?

Maybe it's a female view of things, but I didn't think the root chakra was very sexual. I thought chakras one and two were more involved with that. The root chakra to me is like a very low bass chord, so slow in its frequency that it slows down and deters other chakras. It was explained to me once as having its purpose in  survival energies used in will power more than in love.

When I first started OBing, I was doing alot of soul melds as a way of sending PUL out into the afterlife. During maybe one in twenty of these soul melds the partner's root chakra would get involved and it always pulled me down.

Maybe it's a balancing problem, and I didnt have enough energy in that area above the crown to deal with it. -- Having sensations from beyond your phyical perimeter is shocking, even when you're OB!  Apparently a sense of one's body stays with them at least in the first few subtle bodies !

Bets

hi bets could u pls check ur pm.

Can't say for sure on OOB in tantric practice Bets - because I never reached the required level of training. The focus in Buddhism is very much straightforward shamatha (calm abiding) and vipassana (insight) up to the level of the Mahayana practices - cultivation of the ability to rest in a given mind state, and development of insight  and other higher qualities (especially compassion, wisdom and equanimity) in the student.

The vajrayana or tantric practices in Tibetan Buddhism utilise esoteric methods for a riskier but much more rapid path to enlightenment - this entails working with (kundalini) energies and the higher self - with various aspects of mind which may be experienced as guides/deities in what from the outside seem effectively to be OOB states. (although those terms don't seem to be used)

These methods are only transmitted privately from teacher to student, are not to be divulged on pain of serious karmic consequences, and are passed on only when the teacher is sure the student is ready. They entail both taking vows and making multi life commitments to each other. The teacher in fact takes on karmic responsibility for the student, and the student commits to 100% obedience to the teacher - so it's not done lightly.

The seriousness and care with which the esoteric is approached in Buddhism cannot be overstated. It's on the one hand routine, but also seen as risky and not to be frivolously meddled with.

Pardon me on the chakras - I got it wrong. It's indeed mostly the second or yellow chakra that pertains mostly to sexual energies....

Yessir!

I agree completely
(when you say  :
The vajrayana or tantric practices in Tibetan
Buddhism utilise esoteric methods for a riskier
but much more rapid path to enlightenment -
this entails working with (kundalini) energies and
the higher self - with various aspects of mind which
may be experienced as guides/deities in what from
the outside seem effectively to be OOB states.
(although those terms don't seem to be used)

These methods are only transmitted privately
from teacher to student, are not to be divulged
on pain of serious karmic consequences, and are
passed on only when the teacher is sure the
student is ready. They entail both taking vows
and making multi life commitments to each other.
The teacher in fact takes on karmic responsibility
for the student, and the student commits to 100%
obedience to the teacher - so it's not done lightly. )

But there are situations and conditions which can make variations from that necessary and beneficial. But I appreciate the reminders
---thank you!

Bets

 Honestly i don't think it's so much techniques or tools which make us spiritually grow, it's living according to love and the more we do that, the more we mature/grow.  

  With that said, i've been told in various ways that becoming celebate can speed up certain energy changes in the body and in the endocrine glandular system, BUT without increasing PUL simultaenously you will go nowhere fast with this and because of intensified kundalini one can actually make things worse for themselves.  

 As Yeshua said so long ago, there is no other way to the Source within, other than living a life of PUL.   By far it's the most important and overriding condition in spiritual growth or lack thereof.   Sometimes different organized belief systems can over complicate and cloud things i've come to observe.

 P.S., i've gotten the sense that both the 1st and 2nd Centers are involved strongly with sexual energy.   The 1st in a more purely lust, "I WANT THAT ONE" animalistic sense, and the 2nd in more a relating, sharing sense, but still largely based on Earthly, animalistic energies.  

Perhaps I'm echoing some of what Justin wrote, but I don't believe that a dogmatic guru based approach is going to work. I know about the kundalini guru thing, and many of them got their followers to raise their kundalini, these followers ran into problems such as psychosis and suicide, and their gurus could do nothing to help them.

If you work on growing in love and letting go of what needs to be let go of in a balanced way, your energy (forget the term kundalini) will raise quite naturally. I've found that spirit guidance can help out. Just make certain it's friendly spirit guidance.

Regarding Tantric sex, I wonder if there is such a thing as Tantric eating. In a way, isn't sexuality just a body based drive like eating? Pretty much every kundalini guru (sorry about using the K word again) I've known about preached celibacy and then fooled around with his followers in ways that were inappropriate. This isn't just innuendo. People make claims about the negative behavior of their former gurus, because their claims are often true. If a person is overly quick to deny what former followers have to say about their former gurus, perhaps a person is playing some form of denial game. Ah, that so-called ego thing can raise its ugly head in various ways.

To tell you the truth, I haven't figured this sex thing out yet. I was completely celibate for two years and my attraction to women didn't go away. I figure if you're going to have sex with another person, just make certain that you do so in a manner that includes love, respect and balance. To conserve your energy, it is probably best to limit the frequency. I figure we have the basic sex drive, and then we add our preferences (which can become quite extreme and perverted) onto our basic sex drive. This can cause our energy to be blocked and unbalanced.

Regarding overcoming sex completely, I don't know if this can be done. What takes place? Do our sex hormones become inactive? Does the part of our brain and nervous system that relates to sex become inactive? Is there a way to disengage our subtle bodies from the part of our brain that has the sex-drive program?

P.S. I've shared this before, but I'll go ahead and share it again:

One night I was shown a life size image of a heavy metal rocker dude. I could see kundalini flowing within him. He said he uses his kundalini for evil. Next, I saw a lifesize demonic image of myself. Next I was shown the face of Jesus Christ. I believe the point of these messages was clear. If I'm going to go through the kundalini unfoldment process, make ceratian I do so with Christ consciousness/love in mind.

Kundalini is a powerful energy. Not to be played with by some technique taught by a guru who wasn't/isn't what he or she claims. I aksed Christ for help and received very positive results. Nevertheless, I did have to go through some growing pains.  Not to suggest that I've completed the path. I'm still learning.

What's been posted more or less illustrates the point I think - for sure there are many teachers of this stuff that are not competent, for sure raising these energies can run you off in negative ego led directions if not appropriate to the stage of development of the student, and for sure there's lots of non reality based over conservative bunkum surrounding the subject as well.

While working with kundalini energy is central, the sexual thing is actually only a very small part of tantric practice, and then only at very particular stages  - as best I understand it. But as usual in our hung up society we get hugely focused on the juicy part.

I must say though that I've developed a high level of respect for practical Buddhist teachings on this stuff, even if I'm less sure about the cultural and ritualistic trappings that tend to come in the package too.

Most of the problems seem in my experience to be classic institutional religious ones.

Standard training paths are laid out on a one size fits all basis. Everybody is herded through them.

By and large if you make the right noises over time you will progress through the levels, and will be assigned to teaching others. The very odd time you come in contact with a teacher who has real knowing, and can see stuff about your needs not evident to yourself. Much of the time though they just go through the motions too.

When as for example as I feel I did you find yourself assigned to a teacher who says one thing, but does another in real life when e.g. confronted with practical situations then I think you have to use your discretion and back off.

Now on the other hand it can happen too that we don't recognise real teaching, that our perception is skewed by say our cultural conditioning or fears. (ego again) Then it's easy to wrongly walk away.

So there's good but unrecognised teachers, and others with the highest 'paper' qualifications that have only realised the teaching they have received to a very limited degree.

So it's very easy to get cross threaded - whether through your own or your teacher's mistakes.

To give Buddhism credit it teaches very openly on these issues, even to the point of emphasising the need for a good match of temperaments between teacher and pupil. At the Vajrayana level it's seen as like a multi life 100% mutually committed marriage of minds almost.

The trouble as ever though is that even at that level all sorts of 'wanna be' stuff comes into play - on both sides. Students get blinded by organisational culture and their own need to be something, many teachers like the status of the role. Even the practical issue of teachers taking on students they might only see once every few years is a major problem, and has been the source of many controversies.

My personal take in recent years has (despite Buddhist teaching that you can't in the end get there without a realised teacher) to follow my own path, and to rely on the guidance that seems to be so generously provided. Maybe the day will come when I encounter somebody, and something clicks.

There's a chapter and more on the issues of the pupil teacher relationship in 'Cutting Through Spiritual Materialism' by Chogyam Trungpa. (Shambhala Books) - not to mention many more on the pitfalls in relating to spiritual traditions.....