In Rosalind McKnight's Cosmic Journeys, her guidance reveals that there are five main levels of consciousness in the Earth system:the physical, the etheric, the emotional, the mental, and the spiritual.  Her guidance then says that projections to the etheric level, which includes most dimensions experienced during OBEs and lucid dreams, cause the physical body to become open to posession, the reason being that the physical body no longer has the protection of the etheric body, for it is out exploring.  Her guidance claims posession is less likely in higher levels, such as the emotional level, because the etheric body is inactive and merged with the physical body during these higher projections, protecting it with its energy.

This theory is flawed, however, for it ignores the Mind Split Effect, a phenomenon of projections of all levels.  

Our main energy body, called the etheric body, is connected to our physical body at the core until death, and it is from this energy body which our many other finer, more subtle energy bodies emerge.  Our consciousness splits off as our energy bodies project into their resonating levels.  Our waking consciousness usually only expeirences one level at a time due to perceptual limitations of our physical state, but it is possible to experience more than level simultaneously.  I have done this on a couple occasions, and have personal experience to verify all of these statements.  So it is safe to say that our physical body is never left unoccupied.  Our base level consciousness and life force is always with it, intertwined in it until death.  

Heck, we go out and experience these levels every night during sleep.  With Rosalind's way of thinking, we should be suseptable to possesion every night, for our energy bodies disconnect from the physical and operate in the etheric level while we are sleeping.  There is apparently a lack of understanding of the relationship between our consciousness and our energy bodies, as well as the finer aspects of multidimensional projections, although there is a fairly strong base level of understanding which I respect.

I was suprised to hear such fear-based thinking from McKnight, for her material usually resonates with my own experiences and beleifs.  But I suppose these distortions of truth can be expected, for we are dealing with channelled information.  

However, I am not going to let this one aspect of her work effect how I percieve the rest of her work, for I already know there is much truth in her experiences and guidance.  

Most channelled material will contain an incongruity here and there.  
Some say that one questionable statement depletes the crediblity of a source, but I disagree.  I don't perceive Rosalind and her guides to be misleading and deceptive, even though they make a few false, fear-based statements.  Distortions will occur, for these experiences and channelings must be translated through the human being.. that is the nature of our consciousness and its realtionship to higher levels.. it is impossible to retain the full meaning of anything nonphysical in the physical level, and is especially dependent on the person's spiritual attunement.  So it is understandable.  When one sees what the greater purpose is, little things like this loose much of their power to deter.  My way of thinking has worked with Seth's material as well, for I was able to see the greater purpose and overall truth of the material, and therefore wasn't bothered by comparably small inacuracies that occurred between the material and my own beliefs and intuitions.  I don't want to start another Seth debate lol, I bring it up because these two topics are very much related.

It seems as if a lot of people go out of body without the problem of a spirit invading their body. On some forum, I believe AstralPulse, a person wrote that she came back to her body, and a spirit was in it. She yelled at the spirit "Get out!" and it got out.

When I've had OBEs with all the effects, I maintained awareness of my physical body, even though I experienced myself flying around some place.

I lose awareness of my body when I have an OBE that starts out as a lucid dream.

I don't know the answer to this issue. Perhaps it is more of a matter of how much energy we keep attached to our body, and etheric body represents a sufficient amount of energy left with one's body.

How about people who have NDEs? Does their etheric body stay attached? Do they ever get possessed?

Interesting post, and a subject that i have given some deeper thought too.  First off, i don't believe any channeled or psychically derived  material is 100 percent accurate all the time (this goes for even Bruce Moens work).   For that to be the case, the channel themselves would have to a pure conduit and even then translating such beyond earth concepts into human words makes for issues and misunderstandings too.  

 I'm not sure either way, if Rosiland's material is off or correct about this topic.  Some things, like you said, don't seem to add up at first glance, but a deeper look might reveal more about this subject.   Here are some impressions.  

  Rosiland's guides never said the body physical is completely unshielded or completely left alone when one is traveling in classic OOB state, but seemed to imply that there was less or least sheilding in this state as compared to when phasing in the emotional body or "higher" so to speak.  

  Sometimes some have a tendency to think of these different bodies as things, when the best way i can describe is that these various "bodies" are interconnected resonating fields which all have their own various vibratory range relative to another and to the Whole at the same time, but also interpenetrate.  

 The etheric "level" or range is the most connected to the physical in the sense of being closest in vibrational similarity.   As you mentioned, some aspect of consciousness is always resonating within the physical field to some extent, until full physical death.  

 Its not that these so called "bodies" actually "go" anywhere, for there is no space really, its that there are relative degrees of harmonization and wavelength matching OR discordance/dissonance and inharmony.  
When one says that they are using the "imagination technique" that Bruce talks about, what they are saying really is that they are resonating strongly and harmoniously their physical consciousness/field vibratory range with say the mental consciousness/field--these then become more temporarily merged and unified compared to the average human in its deep and narrow focus in the physical range of vibrations.  

 This, i'm finding, is really hard to explain in a more full and sufficient manner.  

  So, you are correct, there is always some degree of "other" consciousness imbuing the physical level, but again it is a question of degree, and there can be experienced a discordance/mismatching or rather a strong static state.   In a sense, its like turning the dial of a radio and going from one station to another, except in a multi-leveled and nonlinear sense.  

 Its in that static state, of dissonant resonance wherein another "outside" consciousness can unduly INFLUENCE a persons body consciousness (for the body physical, really is a consciousness too).  It's not the old and inaccurate concept of "possession" that this outer thing comes into and completely controls this thing called a body, but its more like matching wavelengths or frequencies with another field and trying to influence it then.  

 What Rosiland's source failed to mention, which would have made it all more clear, is that the real reason that those who are focusing primarily via the etheric state are more susceptible is that they are essentially more material minded in tendency than those who are focusing primarily in say the mental range of consciousness.  So in this somewhat dissonant state, and them potentially attracting more ignorant or unfriendly consciousnesses, they are also more open/receptive to these, for many of THESE ALSO FOCUS PRIMARILY IN WHAT WE COULD CALL "ETHERIC" RANGE OF ENERGIES.   That is where most "stuck" folks are focused in primarily despite the fact that they have dropped the physical body aspect of it.  

 See what i mean, there is a stronger innate resonance there, and its oft an average indication that a person who primarily focuses in that range, still has certain blocking issues to begin with like fear, lack of PUL, or various limiting beliefs, etc.  

 The more pure the level of PUL within a person, the more they resonate to PUL, the more this shifts them into faster vibratory "levels" or field ranges of consciousness automatically.  

This is why for instance, Bruce Moen had so little success with experiencing the classic OOBE state.  His average inner vibratory state was just too fast vibrating for him to focus so primarily in the physical to etheric state.  He was automatically matching the physical field to the emotional and mental fields (and in the case of the Planning Intelligence "contacts", the physical to spiritual).

 This was proved to me by experience, for the one and only time i had a classic OOBE (wherein i was floating around) was when i was going through a temporary cycle of unusual negativity and uncenterdness on my part.  I was vibrating at a much slower rate than normal.  I was also hornier than hell around that time, and normally i give little energy or attachment to sex and physical attraction.

 I will address some of the other questions you brought up in another post.  If one wants to get technical about this issue, then "possession" really happens quite often.   Whenever a slower vibrating consciousness "outside" of self that doesn't respect a self's freewill, tries to unduly influence that self by matching energy fields to certain aspects of that self which are more "receptive" and strongly projecting their energy.  

 This occasionally happens to me, similar to what Albert was saying in another post.  Mostly and consistently i'm in touch with Light beings, but occasionally a rather twisted thought/feeling will suddenly enter into my consciousness and i'm like "where they hey did that come from?"   These thoughts and/or feelings are so unlike me and they always feel rather "alien" in nature.  

  These kind of stuck consciousnesses don't pay a lot of attention to the average and closed down folk out there because these are rather desensitized (Linn and i discussed this during my reading btw).  They will still try to influence them and often do subtly, but its the energy sensitive ones that they like to concentrate on and try to influence the most for they know that these humans can more consciously pick up on the thoughts/feelings/energies that they are trying to influence a person through.  

 Ok, next questions in another post

 

 Dude wrote,
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Heck, we go out and experience these levels every night during sleep.  With Rosalind's way of thinking, we should be suseptable to possesion every night, for our energy bodies disconnect from the physical and operate in the etheric level while we are sleeping.

 Think more deeply about this Dude.   Perhaps there is a difference between falling asleep and consciously going OOB in the etheric state?  
Perhaps people, because they go so deep while falling asleep, that they bypass the etheric state and/or there is a more harmonious resonance for when one falls asleep, the Greater self tends to have more influence with its probe?

 What is physical consciousness?  What is and what does "falling asleep" mean?    Why do all of us stuck humans click out so deeply at some point in this process of "falling asleep"?  

 Because there is so little resonance with the physical state or range of frequency.  Sleep is the small, temporary, but not full "death" experience of the physical level within self.   It is not the same as a person physically relaxing and consciously focusing primarily in their etheric energies during a classic OOBE.

 The reason why we click out for a time during the falling asleep process is because so many of our other energy bodies are involved simultaneously, that it is too much for our conscious minds to handle until the physical state/range of consciousness has been purified.  

Meaning, this is why some people like "He/She" of Monroes 3rd book doesn't sleep anymore at all.  No need too, for their is NO LOSS OF CONSCIOUSNESS within self.   And this is because their various and seemingly "different" energy fields are completely merged and balanced.   There is NO static, there is NO dissonance, friction, or inharmony anymore.  The self can handle all levels of info involved.

 What is death?  What does "death" signify, and we're not talking in the physical sense of the breakdown of a physical body?   Death, the very meaning of same means or implies a temporary loss of consciousness.   When one is so attuned to PUL and to Source, like a He/She their consciousness is a full, uninterrupted conscious continuum.  There isn't ever a loss of consciousness within self, for the little self is completely merged and at One with the Whole.  Death is the seemingly opposite state of this full Oneness, it is the loss of consciousness on some level, of some or many levels.   Death is in reality, ignorance of the true nature of the True Self.  

 So back to sleep, because of the nature of sleep and the process of falling asleep, one is not all that susceptible to the undue influence/resonation with a stuck consciousness as one might potentially be when one is primarily matching the physical state to etheric state.  

 Again, i'm explaining this as best as i can, yet its not as clear as i would like it to be.  

 I do not believe that Rosiland's guidance was fear mongering on this, i think they were just pointing out a natural tendency, based on a deeper understanding of vibrational resonance.   Humans are complex, multi-leveled beings and until all Fields within self are purfied in Spirit, then there is always some potential for undue influence from those stuck in their etheric levels of being.  

 But, this undue influence can become more amplified when one is likewise focussing primarily in the etheric state.   This, like many things pertains to Like attracts, begets, and resonates Like law that runs throughout all levels of this particular Universe.  

Next, we would like to talk about the influence of alcohol and that this self has seen and experienced in others, the so called state of "possession", which really means a strong resonation of some level of a human, with that of a stuck consciousness.  

 How and why does this happen and is much more common when those are indulging too much in this substance?   This would have to be delved very deeply in, and one would have to understand that all so called "physical things" are really emblematic of certain consciousnesses, that physical "things" have a deeper meaning beyond what humans consider the physical, outer aspect.  

  What does alcohol then represent?   It represents the concentrated desire of many humans throughout time immemorial  for something outside of self, to make self happy.  It is a materialistic desire which distorts spiritual truth and consciousness, for happiness can only really be found within when one attunes to PUL.  

 So when a physically incarnate person imbibes quantities of alcohol, from the typical reasons, intents, and motivations that most do, there is imbibed not just the chemical/molecular pattern in the physical substance, but also what we would call the "spirit of alcohol".  

 This then, especially in the average situation with the average human, is an act of deep materialism, which translates to super slow vibrations.   This then facilitates an inharmony between the physical field with those of the faster vibrating fields.  

 With inharmony, or dis-union, comes weakness in one form or another.   The energy patterns in a drunk human become weaker and more dissonant with one another.  In a sense, or for an analogy there are "bigger cracks" temporarily opened up for a stuck consciousness to "poke through or into".  

  A stuck consciousness with its lack of respect of freewill, and its limiting or negative intents, then sees or senses this opportunity, and then tries to merge strongly with certain, more receptive aspects and levels of that human.  For the reasons given above, it is easier for these to do this and to have a greater influence on that body under this circumstance.

 This is a bit different than the question of the etheric OOB state and being unduly influenced by stuck consciousnesses.  Yet, in the comprehension of the energy laws behind same, there are some similarities which is why we mention this, that and to tell especially those sensitive types to avoid getting drunk.  

Some are so positive and loving in nature and have transformed so much of what some call the shadow self, to have little ill effect from imbibing a little too much occasionally.

 To drink alcohol is not necessarily always "bad", but it depends as in all things, about the intent, deeper motivation.   This channel occasionally drinks small amounts of organic red wine because of the health promoting properties on the physical level of this substance.  The positive, respectful intent behind this, nullifies the nonconstructive collective consciousness that created the "thoughtform" which later materialized as "alcohol".  

It is important to treat the body physical with respect, for though it is ultimately an illusion, it is an illusion or temporary construct that is helping the real and eternal parts of you to realize its deepest dreams and desires.   To be in conscious awareness of Home again--to merge with the Whole and with Source the original Creator Consciousness.

 We hope we have given some food for thought in this dissertation.  We have not advocated fear, but awareness of how energy works and the interconnection between the various levels within Self.   As this channel oft says, like attracts, begets and resonates with like.  This is such an important, overriding, but little understood in a holistic manner, Law that pertains to so much of human and nonhuman experience that we try to approach the explaining of it from many various angles in order to make it easier to comprehend.

 PUL is the greatest "shield" around, if one consistently chooses and attunes to that underlying, all inclusive Reality, then there is no need for caution or other kinds of "shielding" or energy considerations.   But how many humans choose thusly in a consistent and more pure sense?
 Hence, the other cautions given through another channel from our level and levels connected to same.  These are what you would term "common sense", from our perspective.  As this channel as figured out via both experience and from guidance from our levels, when one is consistently and highly attuned to PUL, it is actually hard to have a classic OOBE.

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This is why for instance, Bruce Moen had so little success with experiencing the classic OOBE state.  His average inner vibratory state was just too fast vibrating for him to focus so primarily in the physical to etheric state.  He was automatically matching the physical field to the emotional and mental fields (and in the case of the Planning Intelligence "contacts", the physical to spiritual). This was proved to me by experience, for the one and only time i had a classic OOBE (wherein i was floating around) was when i was going through a temporary cycle of unusual negativity and uncenterdness on my part.  I was vibrating at a much slower rate than normal.  I was also hornier than hell around that time, and normally i give little energy or attachment to sex and physical attraction.

I agree, the etheric level, being the lowest, attracts more negative/lower energies, and so if your own natural energy is resonating at this rate, this is the level you will experience.  However, the OBE and astral projection are simply methods of experiencing higher dimensions, just as Bruce's phasing is a method of exploring.  For example, it is possible to explore the etheric level via phasing.  Regardless of whether you leave your body or phase, you will only experience the level resonating with your highest energies.  So if Bruce found OBEs easier than phasing, he would have most likely still projected to the same levels that he did via phasing.  

I can relate to your OBE and its connection with sexual energies.  Some of my early OBEs were extremely sexually charged.  As my energies became more finely tuned , I lost the sex drive and began to access higher realms of a more love attuned energy.

To quote from the book..
"There is always fear that a wandering soul will take over the physical body when the higher aspects of the self are wandering through other levels.  The greatest possibility of this is when the soul goes out from dimension two and leaves the physical body in isolation.  There are no other levels other than the physical there to provide protection, and the body is more susceptible to invasion."


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Rosiland's guides never said the body physical is completely unshielded or completely left alone when one is traveling in classic OOB state

Ah, but they do.  See the above quote from the book.  She says the physical is left in isolation.  Isolation, isolated, left alone, solitary.  

This simply is not truth-the body is never left in isolation.  I think we both agree on this.

If it is true that during sleep our consciousness splits off via our multidimensional energy bodies, then our nightly sleep activities are not much different than when we have a conscious etheric level projection, because the same exact thing is happening, with the exception of one's level of awareness.  The etheric body doesn't just lay around and wait for us to have an OBE before it becomes consciously active.  This portion of ourselves exists and is active regardless of our conscious awareness.  I know this for a fact, for I have awaken mid-astral projection, finding myself exploring nonphysical realms mid-journey.  Therefore we are no more or less suseptable to "possession," regardless of the type of projection.  

Think about it this way... Let's say we have an etheric level projection.  Our awareness is focused in the etheric level, but this is just one portion of our total consciousness... another aspect of us is still with the physical.  Now, lets say were sleeping.  Our awareness is basically totally unfocused, C1 awarenessly speaking.  However, portions of our awareness are still out exploring their resonating levels.  So the physical body is still in the same position, because the energy of our focused awareness is not present in the physical either way.


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It's not the old and inaccurate concept of "possession" that this outer thing comes into and completely controls this thing called a body,

I likewise mostly disagree with the popular concept of full body possession.  However, her guides seem to imply this very idea, for they claim it is possible for a wandering soul to take over the physical body.  and the body is more susceptable to invasion.

I know that Rosalind's guides are very very love oriented, which is why this obviously fear-oriented dictation is so surprising.  

there is no difference between "phasing" and projecting in an OOBE state.  The difference is in the perception or the feeling of difference, but they are the same basic phenomena.   That of "going up and down the vibrational scale within self and the Field", so to speak.

 Why they feel different, is because of the different states or levels tapped into within that continuum.  

 OOBE feels initially more "real" to a human, for the very reason that its not that far so to speak, from the physical vibratory range.  

 All of these "altered consciousness states" happen when one resonates the physical field with a different, but interconnected field.  In the case of OOBE, you are resonating it primarily with the etheric field and range.  

One can initially focus primarily through that, and as they go "deeper", they will phase into other Fields and awareness (occasionally some being perceived simultaneously), and often the physical like sense of another "body" is lost, and more there is a "mind awareness" that happens.

 This happened with me during my classic OOBE, wherein at first i felt a very physical like, separate type body, but as it went on, i started to phase into faster vibrating dimensions within self, and i started to become more of a mind awareness and it started to feel different.  

 My wife also reports some experiences like this which first seem to be concentrated in the etheric state, but move their way up into faster vibrating (and often less physically "real" feeling experiences/awareness).

 This has everything to do with "Chakras" and the energy movement of Kundalini.  If there are no blocks to this energy flow, and PUL is part of the experience, then this naturally "rises" to so to speak up into the faster vibrating/more expanded energy centers.  

 One may first notice this altered state, when one moves or "phases" into the etheric state or range of vibratory frequencies.   This corresponds to "levels" inbetween the 1st and 2 Chakra (closer to the 2nd though), to the 2nd, and to some levels inbetween the 2nd and 3rd Chakra (closer to the 2nd though).  

 Many of my experiences happen within the mental range, which becomes approached in the latter levels of the 5th Chakra, and inbetween same and approaching the 6th Chakra.

 Albert can also relate to this, before now, before he grew in love a lot, dropped various limiting beliefs, and became much more clearer, he use to go OOB with all the bells, whistles, and physical like affects and feelings.  Now, it seems he focuses through and in primarily the 6th Chakra.

 Each of the 7 main Chakras, also have 7 sub dimensions within them.  So, one could say, that in this Universe there are 49 focus levels from a humans perspective.  

 When one phases past the 49th "level", then one becomes a fully conscious Co-Creator God amongst other possibilities.  One becomes a "Christ".  

Seems you are right, seems to be an example of some skewing involved in this part.  Yet, i believe this concept can be looked at differently and explained logically when the semantics of specific, individual words are taken out.  

 I believe there is a reason for caution, for the very reasons that i, not her info, outlined.  

 It's also possible that her sources were trying to "dumb down" the info so it would be more easily understood at the time and with the people involved.  

 You see this in the Edgar Cayce readings as well.  Despite the fact that his source stated that time and space were illusions, when it came to Life readings and to reincarnation/other lives, these lives were always spoken of in a linear sense to people.  

 They were already blowing the minds of the people involved enough, without stretching them to the whole non linear, simultaneous perspective of other selves within a Greater self.  

 That doesn't mean that the guidance involved lacked, or was getting skewed so much as such sources speak to people in the language and concepts they can handle and understand.  

 Perhaps its similar with Rosilands guidance and this instance, perhaps they overly simplified the issue because they were already stretching the minds around them quite a bit.  

  This, i will note, is completely different than a source speaking on material info/knowledge, such as a historical event involving a physical personality, and them getting it completely wrong and off.  That is obvious and no questions asked skewing/error.  Since you earlier mentioned Seth, i would say this pertains more to that source than Rosiland's guides trying to explain complex, nonphysical, and hard to translate into physical info.

 

You're right, explaining a historical physical event is different than explaining a natural nonphysical phenomenon.  However, reality is reality.  Either Jesus was crucified or he wasn't, just as either our physical body is left alone during OBEs or it isn't.  While my personal experience hasn't yet verified the details of the crucifixion, I have personally verified the fact that our physical body is not left as an isolated shell.  Other more advanced explorers have found the same.  

I'm not saying you are wrong about Seth, I am simply saying we find Rosalind in a similar position as Roberts, for we have found inconsistencies in both of their material, this one existing in the spectrum of fear rather than love.  

I honestly believe this was more of Rosalind's belief than it was her guidance.  I agree that some of Rosalind's guidance is dumbed down, not that it really needs to be when you look at the complexity and detail of some material out there these days.  In fact, Rosalinds work is not much more complex than Monroes and the like, if it is at all, and therefore the issue of her needing to oversimplify the concepts does not apply.  In fact, this excuse does not apply for another reason- what is stated is not an oversimplification, it is simply false.

In my opinion.  (Which is based on personal experienced and extensive research into the subject, of course.)

We have to be careful, to understand that these different bodies, including our physical body, are creations and vehicles for our consciousness.  They have no intrinsic separate life on their own.  Those who believe that they do, create a "split soul" theory, with horrifying implications - but all of that is fear based drivel.  

As the great sage Buckaroo Bonzai used to say: "wherever you go, there you are."  Essentially, that is the meat of the concept here.  Now I have heard some spiritualists like Kubler-Ross, explain and show in drawings from NDEs that we have a "silver cord" connecting our consciousness with our bodies.  She describes it, as impossibly long, and always connected until we die.  Whether this is a figurative tether or an actual ectoplasmic connection, she doesn't say, but for this reason, I believe that for most people this connectio is a guarantee that their consciousness comes back to their body.  My impression about the data on this is that the cord is such a strong connection that it would be difficult if not close to impossible to displace it.  

How might possession take place then?  One of the key factors (IMHO), must be the state of mind of the astral traveler.  If their deepest belief allows entrance to another, if they greatly fear or anticipate this assault, then as it is said "it is done unto you as you believe."  This could be a deep-seated subconsicous belief.  Just as many sources confirm that deep belief and thought truly create reality both in the physical and astral planes, so too negative beliefs can manifest themselves with our subconscious permission.  

As to the different vibratory levels, as to defining several layers of lighter bodies beside the physical body we can explore, I say - if that is your cup of tea/belief, great for you, but be careful with such distractions.  

For me, our consciousness is primary.  To myself, this is intuitively obvious.  It is clear that we all create our physical body, to some extent to manifest on this plane.  If you want to create other bodies to explore with - go right ahead.  But you may be missing the point.  There is a unity of things, separate from the divisions.  If you need to have various vehicles (like owning several cars) to get around in, you can have them.  But in the end, there's no place like home.

I don't believe in the sages who speak of mastering and then unifying the various planes or bodies.  Robert Bruce, at one point spoke of constructing his "light body," now while incarnate so that he would avoid the diffiulties associated with death and have a smoother transition.  That to me, seems to be missing the point.  

I hate to quote from the Matrix movie, as it doesn't sound very scholarly, but there was a great scene in it where Neo sees gifted children levitating and bending various objects.  A little boy then watches Neo trying to bend a spoon with his mind, and they have the following conversation:

   Boy: Do not try to bend the spoon; that's impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth.
   Neo: What truth?
   Boy: There is no spoon.
   Neo: There is no spoon?
   Boy: Then you will see, it is not the spoon that bends, it is only yourself.

There is no physical body, no etheric, emotional and mental body.  There is only consciousness.

Matthew

Spending too much time on trying to map these various states and levels of consciousness can become a distraction, especially if PUL is not a strong inner ideal and is not the more concentrated on reality.  

 That there is a "difference" in feeling and experience between the physical consciousness level and that of pure Spirit, is self evident to any who has conscious remembrance of both states (rarely i phase more fully into my spiritual body {when i do, there is almost a total loss of awareness of the physical}, which is where i experience the perception of the pure White Light).  

It is also self evident that at some point, what we call "physical energies or consciousness state" becomes completely transcended and not used by a particular probe (at least in the majority).  

It is important to realize that each level after pure Spirit is an ever more distorted reflection of Spirit, with the physical range being the least clear and true reflection.  

 How and why this happened, is a whole nother question, and one i rarely find any agreement with others on, so i will keep it to myself.  Suffice it to say, the physical is an illusion in the grand scheme of things.   Only pure Spirit is completely real, for it is the state of eternity and eternal, unbroken and completely connected, and completely conscious of same, consciousness.  

 That physical is temporal is the biggest clue to it being an illusion within the grand scheme of things.

 Many mystics, seers, and shaman types have spoken of perceiving Reality/The Field as various interconnected levels, states, steps, planes etc., that are like a vibrational scale--they go from the slowest vibrating state, to the fastest possible (which i consider and call "pure Spirit awareness").

  This is not in a straight line though, its more like a circle for an analogy.  Rather more the ancient curly cue symbol wherein the point starts in the center, and goes outward in a circular pattern, but eventually comes back into the center again.

 During my Gateway Voyage at TMI, while in meditation i got a visual of this inner twisting mobius like Piano with many, many "keys" on it.  It was representing the nature of reality, and saying that the vibrational scale theory is essentially correct, though not well or more holistically understood by many.  Also, my experience which started out as a classic OOBE but i started to phase into faster vibrating levels within self also likewise confirmed this essential reality to me.

 It's also what the ancient Chakra system is based around, and that as above, so below.  

  Our physical endocrine glands are the distorted, materialized reflection of these 7 main energy states/dimensions within the Self.

 It is one thing to speak more from theory and intellect, and another to speak more from experience and deep intuition.

 But yes, Oneness and PUL are the most important ideals and concepts to get.  If one gets these, and more importantly starts to live them in a consistent manner, it often opens up ones perceptions in many ways to many phenomena.  This is similar to what Bruce Moen also says is his experience and what guidance energies tell him.   I could not agree more on this aspect.

 To simplify this subject, one could make the analogy that our origin is from the uncaused Cause/pure Spirit/Source, and the freewill choices of some or many led to a cause and effect.  

 The effects of this collective choosing, is then the various states, bodies, consciousness/vibratory levels, etc. that one can perceive as being somehow different from, yet connected, to one another and the Whole.  

 This, in my perception was a more unconscious "manifesting" (not true creating), rather these states and experiences were the natural result and effects of certain freewill choices i.e. the "cause" behind the effects.

 Think not that Source set it up this way for us, rather Source set up certain intrinsic consciousness/energy laws, which allowed for the manifesting of physical and afterlife in the manner it has developed.  Source always desired for us to stay completely within Pure Spirit Awareness and to be full, and fully conscious Co-Creators with It.  But it won't ever interfere with our Freewill, once it was given.  But ever it beckons us back via its Child--the Planning Intelligence.  

recoverer wrote on Feb 3^rd, 2009 at 9:18pm:

How about people who have NDEs? Does their etheric body stay attached? Do they ever get possessed?

 I would say this is similar to what i was talking about re: the sleep state.  In many NDE's, at least the more numerous positive ones i've read about, it seems that a persons consciousness is automatically phasing into much faster vibrating inner dimensions than what happens with someone going and staying OOB while in a conscious state.  

 Chakra wise, it seems that many NDE's take place in the 4th Center, and/or beyond.   Some seem to be experiencing the 6th, or even occasionally the 7th plane.  The latter all being within the "higher" mental body and phasing into the spiritual body.  

 My guess is that in some of these latter cases, they are being vibrationally lifted up by Guide and/or Elder/completed Being types in order for them to experience such profound and expanded states, and bringing them back into physical awareness again.   These are messengers with a purpose.  Often they agree to this before the physical incarnation takes place, while still phased into the nonphysical dimensions.

 

Robert Monroe enountered problems with OBE possession.   He recounts these in "Journey's Out of the Body."  For example, when traveling to Locale II, he fuond himself accidentally possessing someone's body and thereby creating problems for that "person."   He was eager to disengage to avoid messing up that "guy's" life.

Don

This is true, Monroe indeed had experiences of seemingly possessing another individual's body in another dimension.  However, this individual was not having etheric level projections at the time of the "possession", but rather was physically active, and so this example does not really apply.

And it may have been one of his other Disk/I-there selves, which would make for the fullness and ease in which he merged his nonphysical consciousness with the consciousness of this persons body.

I Am Dude wrote on Feb 4^th, 2009 at 4:14am:

You're right, explaining a historical physical event is different than explaining a natural nonphysical phenomenon.  However, reality is reality.  Either Jesus was crucified or he wasn't, just as either our physical body is left alone during OBEs or it isn't.  While my personal experience hasn't yet verified the details of the crucifixion, I have personally verified the fact that our physical body is not left as an isolated shell.  Other more advanced explorers have found the same.

 Vincent, you seem to have missed my point about comparing physical details and skewing of these, to translating nonphysical concepts into physical concepts, language, etc. in a way that is easy for us to comprehend more accurately.  These are like comparing apples to oranges.  Btw, i agree with you that a body is not left completely unresonated with by a probes consciousness until full physical death.
As i mentioned earlier, i don't believe that any channeled or psychically derived source is completely accurate, 100 percent of the time.
 In Rosiland's case, it may just be an example of skewing, but its also possible that they just over simplified it to get the main point across, that in the etheric state one can be more easily influenced by stuck nonphysicals.  That's the core of what they were saying, but perhaps they presented it in an overly simplified manner.

 I tried to explain it in a more accurate and less simplified way, and i found it very difficult.  At one point i had to dissociate a bit, and just let info flow in order to get the right concepts (in the right language) across and still it lacked.  It is a rather complex and hard to understand topic for the left brain part of us.

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I'm not saying you are wrong about Seth, I am simply saying we find Rosalind in a similar position as Roberts, for we have found inconsistencies in both of their material, this one existing in the spectrum of fear rather than love.

 

 And i'm not saying that you are necessarily wrong about this particular bit of info in this work being an example of skewing.  However, possession or something like it is a reality, and can be a very difficult situation--hence why cautions from not just Rosilands source, but also Cayce's source.  

Whether or not this was an example of error and skewing, or a more simplified and thus less accurate depiction, i believe the basic, core concept is sound in that when one phases primarily in the etheric state i.e. resonates the physical field to the etheric field primarily, there is an easier opportunity for beings which are stuck in the etheric state to find an "opening" so to speak, to influence the said explorer--they can become too attached and enmeshed within the energy field of that person, which then causes lots of other issues.  

 Also, whatever the real reason behind this part, i do not believe that her guidance was actively trying to instill fear.  Is one fear mongering when a parent tells its child to not to put its hand on the hot stove because it will hurt?   Whether people want to believe it or not, there are difficult consequences both in the material and nonphysical planes.  One of them is possession (i don't like this term, because it implies full bodily control of anothers body, and in my perception that is extremely rare).  

 I have some experience with possession, particularly with my Dad who is alcoholic.  Now i've seen various sources mention that when the average person gets drunk, it leaves them much more open to being influenced by stuck folks.  I know this by experience.  I explained the whys pretty well and logically, just as i explained the whys and hows logically behind the OOB state and potential undue influence of stuck/unhappy beings.  

  Are you saying that you know for sure, a 100 percent that neither takes place, and that Rosilands source was just trying to instill fear in others?    


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I honestly believe this was more of Rosalind's belief than it was her guidance.  I agree that some of Rosalind's guidance is dumbed down, not that it really needs to be when you look at the complexity and detail of some material out there these days.  In fact, Rosalinds work is not much more complex than Monroes and the like, if it is at all, and therefore the issue of her needing to oversimplify the concepts does not apply.  In fact, this excuse does not apply for another reason- what is stated is not an oversimplification, it is simply false.

 I will put this into a broader perspective.   Cayce gave his readings from the early 1900's to almost mid 1940's.   He was stretching the minds and beliefs of people back then with certain specific concepts and info.  
Rosiland worked with Monroe in the latter 70's and very early 80's (i believe).   Bob's 1st book was published originally before he met Rosiland.   Bob's 1st book is pretty simple and lacking a lot in breadth of info and insight.  Bob and Bob's 1st book when i read it, struck me as pretty clueless in some respects and that was as a 16 year old reading it.
Bob wrote or published his 2nd book in the mid 80's.  He wrote or published his last book in beginning of the 90's.   From one book to another, you see a progression in depth, complexity, and breadth of info.  It becomes more broad, complex and accurate, because Bob was growing spiritually from one book to another.  

 Now, there are various sources which say that as we move closer to the Aquarian Age, and to certain cycles like the Galactic-Winter Solstice Alignment, which we are now in, the collective vibrations of the ELS are being raised more and more.   More and more people can understand, accept, and handle greater depth and detail of info.  

 I have a feeling that if Bob was here today, he would say that even his mind was stretched at times by Rosiland's guidance.  For awhile he looked avidly towards these sessions because of their enlightening nature.  He writes in his 1st biography about this, and that it was very addictive for him and something he always had to consciously pull away from.  
  For even him, and for people then, it was not so simple and easy to grasp.   There are plenty of times when Bob got "aha" info from Rosiland's source.   That's why he called Rosie's main guide, "Ah So".

 You, i, and all of humanity and the Earth herself, have the benefit of living closer to those important cycle markers, and enjoying an overall faster vibrating Earth dimension.   Guidance is now more willing and can now more easily communicate certain concepts that they may not have 30 years ago.  

 Relativity Vince.  Just as Cayce's guidance didn't communicate about a Greater Self existing outside of time, which has within it many innate aspects, which some get turned into free willed personalities which live physical lives.  But, really this is happening from a "no" or rather all time state.   About 40 years later, other sources felt it was time to speak more clearly and accurately about such concepts, as both Monroe and Rosilands info talks about.  

 So what is your point?  No doubt there are sources today which speak with greater complexity than Rosiland's guidance did, but you have to allow for a natural progression here.   There are also, besides the general vibe of the Earth being faster vibrating, more individuals who are living in a much faster vibratory state then there was say 20, 40, or 80 years ago.


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In my opinion.  (Which is based on personal experienced and extensive research into the subject, of course.)

Imo, i believe you are too quick to try to defend the Seth material, and lets not be coy, one of the reasons why you started this thread was in part to defend Seth in a round about way.  

  I also question your discernment and degree of intuition when you express strong interest in sources like the Matrix 5 material, when to more seasoned explorers, these automatically ring the 'rather off bells', even without needing to read a lot of the material itself.  

 I had a similar feeling with Seth, even before i read about the whole Jesus crucifixion issue.  I'm a deeply intuitive person who feels fairly clearly, what outer sources are mostly about or not.   I don't doubt there is truth in Roberts work, just as i don't doubt there is truth in the Matrix 5 material, but neither seems all that helpful to me and funny enough, both degrade the life and example of Yeshua.

 If Roberts work was so helpful to you in faciliating a faster vibratory level, would you have been as interested in buying the Matrix 5 books as you seemed to be?   Can you not just intuitively feel what these or other sources are about?   Seems Roberts work hasn't been as helpful to you as you think, but seems to have kept you more in an intellectual place (btw, the Matrix 5 books likewise has a very intellectual/mental polarization to it).

 I see quite a lot of potential in you, and have said some things about you that i would not say about too many other people in these times.  Yet, you still have some limiting beliefs and sources to let go of, if you want to more fully realize that potential.   You are letting outside sources have too much influence on your beliefs.

  So yes, you can find errors in pretty much any channeled or psychically derived source, heck i strongly disagree with Bruce about his views on vegetarianism, BUT there is relativity here, meaning there are degrees of accuracy and offness.  My guidance leads me to the sources which have the least offness and inaccuracy, and they do a good job of same, because i have spent a long time in this life, and in others lives of learning to listen.

 Comparing Seths possible (to you) skewing about a physical world event, to a possible skewing (to both of us) of Rosilands guidance re: the etheric state and all that jazz is like comparing apples and oranges.  
Not one source that i've come upon, and got a lot of PUL and highly aware/expanded vibes from, ever speaks derogatorily of Yeshua and his life or example (and they all affirm his birth, crucifixion, and resurrection), yet i've found it is common in ignorant or purposely misleading sources.  You know how many Gurus have claimed to be Jesus reincarnated, but that they were beyond Jesus?  Or other Gurus say false things about him and his life?  

  There seems to be both a conscious and unconscious agenda against Yeshua and his example.  

  If true, a good question to ask is why?   Maybe because he represents the most intune and powerful example of true spiritual livingness publicly known about, and some sources dislike or disagree with him based on like attracts like i.e. they are far from being in resonation with such a pure energy OR in some cases there are forces out there that like a stuck humanity?   His example, when put into perspective, is extremely inspiring, and for me personally the most inspiring example that i've yet come across though i rather like and inspired by those like Yeshua's mother, Cayce, Moen, Monroe, Dr. King, Gandhi, my Mom, etc.

 Also, i believe that Rosiland's sources also said that if one wanted to explore via the etheric state, that affirmations and asking for help from constructive sources would help one to avoid possession type issues.  

Hmmm, maybe this is part of why Monroe developed part of his affirmation with its part of asking for help from guidance energies to steer one from unhelpful energies and experiences?  

 Or that Cayce told people that if they were going to meditate, they must go into with love, and asking for help from spiritual constructive sources (particularly Christ was mentioned to be called upon, and something that Cayce personally did almost every time for his latter readings)?

 When one meditates, they move into a more receptive than normal state.  If they leave themselves open unduly to the influence of others without certain precautions, they too can likewise become unduly influenced

 This happened to me when i was younger.  I started doing Yoga when in 7th grade, and experimented with meditation.  I was already innately energy sensitive beyond the norm, and i was a bit clueless about deeper aspects of meditation and what this means.  

 For awhile, i became unduly influenced by rather lacking in light forces.    I had left myself too open, wasn't cautious enough, and some consciousnesses slipped their way in (at times more intensely and others less so).  

It wasn't all that hard because of the above, and also because i had an extremely stressful childhood, and felt a lot of anger, sadness, discontent, etc. anyways because of that and i was going through puberty.  I constantly had really weird thoughts at one point, and more and more i contemplated suicide as a way out of my depression.  That eventually got really bad.

 In short, i was being unduly influenced by some stuck/unhappy, and ill intentioned consciousnesses on top of other outer and inner issues.   It took a lot of self work and a lot of time to clear myself of these influences.  I was unconscious of this fact and past influence, until rather recently.  I experienced a mini cycle of it a few years ago, but nowhere as bad as it had been.  This re-happened for various reasons, one was that i let myself get temporarily caught up in a limiting and non constructive channeled source--also again i was experiencing a lot of outer stress and challenge, and i wasn't choosing positively enough in the face of these.

 So, with all due respect Vincent, i am perhaps speaking more from experience on this subject than you are.  To the ignorant (like i was in my teen years), there is need for some precaution in such practice/work, particularly with people who are more energy sensitive than the average.  For there are many, many sources out there that would like to mislead people.

 Being more energy sensitive than ever, being more clear and spiritually attuned than ever, and having had some of these past experiences, i now have A LOT more discernment and discrimination than i did.  If i had come upon Roberts info when i was like 14, i might have liked it and swallowed it hook like and sinker.  Thankfully then, i was led to outer sources which were more helpful than not.  Sources which had the ideals of universal love and service within from the get go.  
 If i hadn't found these sources, and if my Disk wasn't overall very mature and my personality without the potential for a lot of maturity, things might have been much tougher for me, and may today even be rather difficult.  Instead, in the last couple years i find that i'm almost always consistently joyous, appreciative, and clear in feeling.  I feel rather alive.  I laugh and smile a lot in person, even during more difficult and challenging periods which i still am going through here and there.

Justin

My motive was not to compare the Seth material with Rosalinds work.  Rather, it was to point out a rather obvious flaw in this aspect of the thinking of her guidance, perhaps simply as a reality check that no source is completely accurate, regardless of how love-attuned they are.  I am not saying her guidance was trying to instill fear, but that this may have been the outcome for some readers regardless of the motive, which could have been avoided had Rosalind had more accurate knowledge regarding our consciousness and its relationship to our multidimensional existence.  

By the way, you completely misinterpreted my post in the Matrix 5 thread.  I was not stating my own personal viewpoints on the book, but rather trying to convey the message of the author and what the book was about in general.  I have not read any of this material, nor do I have a real interest in it.  I likewise get a feeling from it that does not resonate with me.  Please do not judge.

BTW again, you are not the only one who has dealt with negative influences.  Everyone has, and does.  The issue here is not about negative influences in our daily lives, but the question of whether or not having OBEs makes one more susceptable to possession.  Being that you have had just one OBE and I have had countless, perhaps I am still the one with more experience on this subject.  Heck, the reason my life became so positive was in part due to my out of body exploration and learning.  But that is not the point.  The point is that Rosalind's guidance clearly states that it is a real possiblility that you may be possessed while out of body, and yet this theory does not add up to reality.  Her guidance states that our bodies are left in isolation, and yet you yourself admit that this is wrong.  

Basically what I am looking for in you is to not make an excuse for this inaccuracy, but to admit that there is a good possibility that she was wrong, and to realize there is little difference between this mistake and the mistakes made by other channels.  You yourself said that one flaw makes an entire body of work questionable.  Yet in this case you seem to overlook this.  

I am not saying this inaccuracy jeperodizes the credibility of her work by any means, but rather it shows that a source of truth and love can still contain flaws, and yet one can still benefit from such a source's guidance without having to judge the entire body of work based on one incongruency.  

Reading this reminds me Whoopie Goldberg in ghost. At the very end of the movie, she "allows" deceased spirits to pop in and out of her physical so she can become their voice. One man poped in without her consent and she "shook him out".  

I think because I had the innocence of a child, I never feared a possession when dreaming or meditating or astral traveling. I always "begged" God for more experience, until the nuns convenced me that it was all Satins doing, the he would take over my body and I would go to hell. My parents told me to respect what the nuns said, so I took it as Gospel truth.  Well, here I am at 59 years old, still meditating, dreaming and OBEing and I'm not possessed!!  

I my way of thinking, if a subject is filled with fear, s/he manifest the fear into something "real". If you recall, in Rosie's book, she also says that when she comtemplated suicide, instead of being possessed by evil, she was possessed by her guidian angel who wrapped his/her "wings" around her body and when he opened them, she was in the presense of God. She wasn't fearing the "evil" of suicide, but rather thinking of how she needed some think to uplift her from her depression.

The mental status of the individual, at the time of the OBE, has much to do with what the outcome of the experience is remembered. I don't deny that an evil possession can/does happen.  There are many things beyond this world reality that are not "clearly" shown to me.

Carol Ann

I Am Dude wrote on Feb 5^th, 2009 at 5:21am:

Justin By the way, you completely misinterpreted my post in the Matrix 5 thread.  I was not stating my own personal viewpoints on the book, but rather trying to convey the message of the author and what the book was about in general.  I have not read any of this material, nor do I have a real interest in it.  I likewise get a feeling from it that does not resonate with me.  Please do not judge.

 I remember reading that you personally had an interest in reading this material.  Perhaps i read or remembered wrong.


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BTW again, you are not the only one who has dealt with negative influences.  Everyone has, and does.  The issue here is not about negative influences in our daily lives, but the question of whether or not having OBEs makes one more susceptable to possession.  Being that you have had just one OBE and I have had countless, perhaps I am still the one with more experience on this subject.  Heck, the reason my life became so positive was in part due to my out of body exploration and learning.  But that is not the point.  The point is that Rosalind's guidance clearly states that it is a real possiblility that you may be possessed while out of body, and yet this theory does not add up to reality.

 So you are completely sure its not a possibility?  Can you speak for everyone else?   Just because it doesn't happen to you doesn't mean jack crap no matter how many times you have gone OOBE in that manner.  
  As far as i know, Rosiland's guidance doesn't say something like, don't ever go out of body via the etheric, you must not.   They mention that there is a possibility for those that do so to experience a possession type experience, and also give a solution by saying that its important to use affirmations and to ask for help from constructive sources.

 You are arguing what they call a straw man argument.   Now, if someone does get possessed to some degree while OOBE, are we always going to know about it when looking at them?   Maybe "possession" tends to be more subtle than what the movies make it out to be?  

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Her guidance states that our bodies are left in isolation, and yet you yourself admit that this is wrong.

 Yes, i disagree if what they were saying was an absolute statement, and not just an oversimplification for the purpose of not trying to put super complex/nonphysical concepts into physical language.   However, my feeling IS that there is less potential sheilding that happens when one goes OOBE in the classic, etheric sense.  

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Basically what I am looking for in you is to not make an excuse for this inaccuracy, but to admit that there is a good possibility that she was wrong, and to realize there is little difference between this mistake and the mistakes made by other channels.

 I've already said that i'm not completely sure whether or not it was skewing.  I am open to that possibility, but i do see other potential explanations for it when put into a broader perspective.  You consistently ignore the broader perspectives and relativity around this issue that i have pointed out.

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You yourself said that one flaw makes an entire body of work questionable.  Yet in this case you seem to overlook this.

 

 No, i never said that.  I said in the case of Roberts, i sensed an offness about her work even just when starting to read her book, and i was not surprised when i found out how she spoke of Yeshua.  For me, it confirmed that earlier feeling of "offness".  There are also other concepts in there not having to do with Yeshua, that both Spooky and Albert have touched on and said were rather off and inaccurate, and i've agreed with them.   I trust the instincts of Spooky and Albert.  They are mature people who have been at this nonphysical exploration stuff for a long time, certainly a lot longer than you have.

 I've said many times that no channeled or psychically derived source is always 100 percent accurate all the time.  I have stated many times that there are occasionally skewing and errors in the Cayce readings which are one of my favs.  

 Yet, i have also stated, its a matter of degree, that there is a relatiity involved in judging whether a source could be considered more helpful to not.  

 I have consistently pointed out that in all the sources that i have mentioned, except Monroes first book, they all speak of the importance of PUL type concept from the very get go, and that Roberts earlier books that i've read didn't seem to have much of any focus on that essential concept.  You yourself said that is true, but said that the latter books do.

 After you told me that the latter books do, i noted an rather obvious observation that this makes it look like it doesn't come from a highly evolved Spirit being, but rather indicates it coming from the unconscious of a human who eventually learned the importance of, and started concentrating on PUL--hence the latter reflection in the latter work.  Not a hard concept to get Vince, and rather plainly indicative of the "level" Roberts or her source was at earlier.  

 I also noted that having heard the voices of channeled material from sources which to me seem much more credible (particularly Cayce and Rosiland), i noted that these were much more flat and monotone in voice, like one would expect from a highly evolved nonphysical being because they do not have the strong emotional system and energies going on that a human and stuck person often has.  

 By comparison, "Seth" is flamboyant and over the top.  Right there is a big clue to it being more Roberts unconscious than anything, or possibly her tuning more into a stuck, etheric-emotional level being, or possibly a combo.  Either way, its not just because what she said about Yeshua is why i advise leaving it alone.   Yet, for me that is a pretty big one unto itself, and Cayces guidance advised people a long time ago that a good yardstick for such channeled, mediumistic, and pyschically derived material was if they recognize and affirm the birth, basic teachings, crucifixion, and resurrection of Christ or not.

 His guidance said that those sources which do not, its best to leave them alone.

 This may sound like a fundamentalist teaching, but when one really figures out who and what Christ is and about, and one sees it from a much larger and nonreligious perspective, then one would see that its not a fundamentalist statement but a common sense perspective.

 Is it a coincidence that various sources point to Christ being the Co-Creator of this Universe?   Is it a coincidence that Bruces exploration partner, when they were tapping into the Planning Intelligence, kept getting the Christ association with the Planning Intelligence?
Perhaps if this is true, then sources which speak derogatorily of Christ and his life on Earth in some manner, are either ignorant, or purposely misleading?  Again, keep in mind i'm not religious, nor a fan of religion.  If just ignorant, would one want to take classes from a fellow student whose grades are worse or not much better than ones own?  

I am not saying it is impossible to become "possessed" during an OBE.  What I am saying that going into the etheric level does not increase the chance of being "possessed".  

Just look possession in our history.  How many of these cases do you think happened while the person was out of body?  Probably close to none.  It just doesn't seem to add up.  Whether you are out exploring the etheric level, or you are sleeping, your consciousness is not focused on your physical body, although a part of it is still there with it.  When you have a higher level projection your etheric body does not remain with your physical body, it is projected to the etheric level regardless of your awareness.  So it is easy to see that etheric projections do not increase the risk of possession any more than sleep or higher level projections.


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Yes, i disagree if what they were saying was an absolute statement, and not just an oversimplification for the purpose of not trying to put super complex/nonphysical concepts into physical language.

"There is always fear that a wandering soul will take over the physical body when the higher aspects of the self are wandering through other levels.  The greatest possibility of this is when the soul goes out from dimension two and leaves the physical body in isolation.  There are no other levels other than the physical there to provide protection, and the body is more susceptible to invasion."

It was a crystal clear statement.  

But I see what you are trying to say, and I agree that projections into the etheric level may attract beings of like energies into your consciousness.  However, this is much different than saying that beings will wait around for you to have an etheric projection and then attempt to inhabit your body.  This is because the reality of sleep and projection is that the physical body will always be without the energy of its higher energy bodies during sleep as they project into their resonating levels.. which is the same exact thing that happens during an etheric level projection, with the exception of one's level of awareness.

 Hi Vince, i'm going to leave Rosiland and her guidance info out of this, because as i've said before, i'm not totally sure 100 percent either way if this was skewing or not.  Why debate something that you are not all that sure to begin with?

  I don't know much at all about possession in our history.  I figure there are many ways and states that one can become or allow themselves to be unduly influenced by lacking in light consciousnesses.  
I mentioned meditation as one because one becomes more receptive in that state.   Ones deeper and unconscious intentions/motivations, beliefs, as well as ones more conscious intentions and beliefs can greatly influence what one experiences along these lines when in a more receptive state such as meditation facilitates.   Also how one lives, and what one thinks, etc. can be a factor in the like attracts and begets like sense.

 Also, because the Earth dimension is one based on and of temporary polarization, at times seeming "opposites" also attracts.   My perception is that some particularly lacking in light consciousnesses are sometimes strongly attracted to some rather filled with light human beings, and these latter type of humans do tend to be more innately energy sensitive than the average to begin with so these lacking in light consciousnesses know that they may be able to influence them on a more conscious level and so tend to try harder with these.  
The severely lacking in light consciousnesses, tend to vehemently dislike the purer light.   We can see this example in the Earth, in Yeshuas life i.e. a great case of Polarization.  

 Being ignorant of historical cases of possession, i will not speak much on them, beyond stating my general impression that there are potentially many different factors that go into such cases and can vary between individual cases.  

 Re: the classic OOB state and the sleep state more specifically, i see some major differences between the two.   In the sleep state, there is a lot more going on energetically, and a probe tends to be more strongly guided by its Greater, Disk self during this state.    The fact that so many levels are involved, often times simultaneously, is one of the reasons why we "click out" for a time when we "fall" asleep.  For a time, we become unconscious to self, or rather more accurately to our physical field and part of this is because of the depth and complexity of the experiences and energies going on.  It is too much for our waking conscious minds to handle.  

 This is ever the reason for "clicking out" or unconsciousness to the waking conscious self.   I feel that in the sleep state, we spend very little "time" in the etheric overall, though it depends on the person of course, but i believe that even less mature people tend to work more on the emotional levels while in sleep state.  

 I feel that when we become a "completed being" or full graduate while in the flesh, like "He/She" of Monroe's 3rd book, we automatically lose the "need" for sleep for various reasons, but one of the main ones is because our physical field/consciousness becomes fully integrated and balanced with the fastest vibrating field, the spiritual, within.  
Or in other words, once you reach those developments you can't and won't "click out" anymore in any sense.   Another way to say this, is that now you live and function in the "physical" so called reality, from within your 7th Center, which is the one that resonates to the God-Head in our system of energies.  There are various esoteric and religious references to the "7th heaven" type experience, wherein one feels and becomes aware of God, or Godly like energies.

 Anyways, what happens in a classic OOB type experience, is that one is resonating the physical field strongly with the etheric field/range of vibrations.   In a sense, it is similar to the general principle behind meditation, in that one becomes more sensitized to nonphysical energies than most are in normal waking state, but also different because one is now in the level that various stuck beings are completely or almost completely focused in.

 There can be various reasons why a person will "explore" via that level of self.  For some who have a lot of doubt about the reality of the nonphysical, it can be one of the most convincing experiences of same because it feels similar in some respects to physical reality, feels more physically "real" in some ways.  

 For those who consistently explore via this route, again there can be various reasons for that, but the mains ones that i'm aware of are as follows:   One just may be overattached to that kind of exploring for whatever reason.  2 one may have beliefs which are limiting the person from exploring in other ways via ones faster vibrating levels in self.  3:  Ones average and consistent vibratory rates within the waking conscious self, may be too slow to vibrate in resonance to the faster vibrating dimensions/fields within self and this ultimately and essentially relates to ones consistent degree of attunement to PUL or lack thereof.  

 It's possible for there to be a mix of some, or all of the above.   In some or many cases, it is indicated that there is some kind of limitation going on.  By its very nature, limitation means or represents "slower vibrations", and because of like attracts and resonates with like law, there is a greater degree of both sensitizing to and resonating with stuck beings in the general etheric realm.   Because of that greater openness and receptivity to those kinds of energies one can potentially become more influenced by same than in various other states.  

 The physical in and of itself is so closed down and narrow in band, that it tends to shut out such nonphysical influences.   Yet, the more material minded and slow vibrating one is in the physical, the more one will be influenced by rather lacking in light/stuck physical beings i.e. fellow humans.  
Such a one, while trying meditation or some other form of opening and sensitizing self, may become very influenced by very lacking in light nonphysical consciousnesses.   I believe this was the case with Hitler.  
Hitler was a bit of sensitive (not just my impression, also in his astro. chart with the planet Uranus very strong).  And, he actually had some good ideals to start of with, but a mix of things happened with him which led to some of the most lacking in light consciousnesses developing within him.  He was sort of a Darth Vader type in that he had a lot of potential for good, but via self choices and being influenced by very negative outer sources, he went far down the lacking in light path.

 This also pertains to some well known Gurus, who some probably started off with some good intentions and some spiritual inclinations, but for a mix of various reasons, including their greater sensitivity, boy did they go far down a very lacking in light path.   Also many of these became to some degree "possessed" by some very stuck consciousnesses.   I read an interesting account of a sensitive woman who was involved for awhile with the Guru named Sri Chimnoy, and she said she at one point perceived various lacking in light beings talking to him on a nonphysical level and him listening more than not to these "voices".  Whether ultimately true or not, it is an instructive theoretical example of what can happen with people.  And Chimnoy wasn't near as abusive to his followers as some other Gurus have been.  
 I think this subject is a very complex and relative subject.  And ultimately, i believe there is a greater potential for being more influenced during the OOB state.   As i've observed before, there are various levels of more resonation with stuck energies of some or many people who consistently go OOB in the classic sense.

 I brought up 3 good examples of people who have experience with both classic OOBE, but also other states.   In one case the person experienced an OOBE during an unusually slow vibrating cycle for him--normally when he explores he explores via faster vibrating bodies (most often the mental).  In another case, the person wanted to do classic OOB for years, tried hard to do same, but with couple exceptions could not and is a person that seems quite filled with Light and PUL.  

 In the 3rd example, we have someone who use to go classic OOB a lot with all the affects of same, but as he grew more and more in love and let go of various limiting beliefs, his classic OOBE's became less and less, yet he was still "exploring' the nonphysical often and consistently.

 I would not be surprised if there were other members on this board who had a likewise similar progression happen with them.   Perhaps Bets?
 It seemed to happen with Bob Monroe as far as i can tell.  In the earlier days, it seems he mostly explored via his etheric state and thus experienced mostly classic OOBE's.  Much later on in life, he talks about "phasing", and while he doesn't outright say it, it would be logical to assume that his classic OOBE's lessened and he started resonating his physical field with his faster vibrating fields.   In the case of his "ultimate journey" it seems he temporarily merged his physical field with the highest, or near highest levels of the spiritual or to put it in another way, he focused primarily in his 7th Center, that one that corresponds, when spiritually/energetically awakened, corresponds to the perception and perceiving of the pure White Light.

 Notice how in this experience he lost so much connection and awareness with his physical body/energies, that his body was starting to shut down from lack of connection.   This is because Bob was not fully balanced between all his various bodies--he really wasn't ready to exist completely in that state--he was still too far material in nature.  All the various bodies must be completely balanced with one another, and then fully resonate with the spiritual for their to be the experience of not separating from the physical as Monroe almost did.

Had he been ready, he would have experienced what some call "Ascension" or realization of the "Light body" within the physical.   Such as we may assume "He/She" of his 3rd book achieved, and from the historical testimony and from the psychic testimony of credible sources that Yeshua likewise achieved.  

 What happens in "ascension" is that their is a process wherein the vibratory energies of the physical body (and all bodies below the spiritual), get in a sense "lifted up" to and resonate so fully with the most expanded spiritual energies within self, that in this resonation the two (and more) merge and the physical is converted into pure Light.

 After this process of alchemical transformation, one is left with the experience of being able to exist in the "physical world" and can interact with other inphysical beings in a physical like way, and yet be totally outside same in every other respect.  There are no human, physical limitations left anymore.   One is also consciously aware of all levels of consciousness, the full 49 focus levels of our system, 49 corresponding to the Galactic Center Consciousness.  

 I got a bit off track, as i'm apt to do at times, but sometimes you need to interweave various concepts and points together to get a more full picture of what's going on with one subject.  

I agree, possession is most likely caused by a number of different factors.  

Its not so much a matter of the unwelcomed spirit suddenly inhabitting ones body as it is a connection made between you and them which allows them to enter your consciousness and exert influence over your thoughts and maybe even actions.  Rosalinds guides seem to indicate the unwelcomed spirit simply comes and jumps in one's body while they are out exploring.  

I believe there is less difference between OBEs and sleep than you may think.  In fact, an OBE is nothing more than an individual being consciously aware of an aspect of one's nonphysical activites during sleep.  Our consciousness projects to these levels during sleep, and when we are aware of this we call it an OBE.  The level one experiences during an OBE depends on the level of the developement of that individual's consciousness and their intents above and below the surface of their consciousness.  

I don't believe there is a strong connection between the OBE method of projection and one's level of spiritual advancement.  Rather, the connection lies in what levels the individual is attracted to.  I have projected OBE style into a level so high I was able to merge with my higher self, which may have been the highest vibrating dimension I have expeirenced consciously.

However, I do believe that phasing naturally produces higher level projections, simply because we occupy a finer body of consciousness during these.  Robert Bruce beleives we travel via the mental body when we phase, rather than the slower vibrating energy bodies used in OBEs.  Of course, if an individual is attuned with his higher self they will be able to exit their body via OBE and phase into a faster vibrating energy body, such as the mental body.  

Regarding "progressing" beyond the OBE type experience..

What happened to Monroe seems to have happened to me.  My first OBEs produced very heavy energetic sensations, and projections into mostly the Real Time Zone.  However, as I developed spiritually and gained more and more nonphysical experience, the once heavy OBE sensations dimmed to a level where now, I do not feel a thing when projecting.  I simply phase out of my body smoothly, into higher levels than ever before.  

However, the same nonphysical process is occurring... my body is falling asleep, my nonphysical self is expanding into its natural levels, and my consciousness is going along for the ride, so to speak.  Only now I am developed enough to pass right through the intermediary RTZ and lower astral levels and bypass the energetic beginner's "static", projecting directly into higher levels of self.

Of course, this does not mean that I no longer exist in these "lower" levels, but rather that my waking consciousness is at a level which is capable of having meaningful experiences in these higher realms, and so I automatically resonate at these higher levels.  One can only consciously project to the highest level which they consciously resonate with.

 That's interesting about your experiences Vince, and i'm not surprised.  While i'm not totally sure, i get the sense that Alberts experience and progression was also similar to that, but also that he, for the most part, stopped phasing so much and primarily through the etheric level.  

 In my OOBE (i had another one, but there wasn't much movement involved, was rather brief, so i don't mention it besides it being connected to an E.T. or interdimensional being), at first it felt very, almost physically real in the sensations.  I really felt like i was in another body floating around.  

 But as the experience went on, i started to shift my energies a bit, and it became less physically real, i became a bit more aware of my body and it seemed to become more of a mind journey type thing.  

Btw, there was no accompanying vibrations, noise, etc. with it to begin with.  

 My wife one time went OOB in first the etheric state/level, but as it became a more spiritual experience for her, it shifted.   She experienced a Kundalini type movement of energy "up and down" all her Centers, which culminated in the most intense orgasm she has ever had.   Right before that, she flew up into space, and came to a larger, older, and more White hued Star.  

 It was as she was observing this "Star" that she had the Kundalini movement.  She said it was this intense White-Blue electrical like energy which reverberated up and down her energy system.  

  After this happened, she shifted back more into the classic OOB state, and reentered her body.    I wonder if she was viewing a 'star" at all, and not her own Crown Center...perhaps also there is a connection between our Galactic Center and the Crown Center.  Dr. Paul LaViolette theorizes that our Galactic Center is not a massive black hole as currently believed by the mainstream, but a massive Mother, Creational Star.  (as a side note, my wife has had more of her journeys and experiences in the classic OOB state)

 As he points out, there are some major holes in the theories of Galactic Cores being black holes.

 Anyways, you wrote
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"One can only consciously project to the highest level which they consciously resonate with.

 Good point, and i totally agree.  Its based on the like attracts, perceives, resonates with, and begets like law which underlies all phenom in this Universe.  


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Of course, this does not mean that I no longer exist in these "lower" levels, but rather that my waking consciousness is at a level which is capable of having meaningful experiences in these higher realms, and so I automatically resonate at these higher levels.

 Also some good points.  I would just clarify that our perception of existence in these "lower" levels is perhaps ultimately an illusiorany one, which remains until we transcend all limiting energies within self, and then when all have done likewise, these will disappear.  

 Rather these levels are like reflections, of reflections of reality (and depending on what level one is referring to, there are many reflections of reflections involved).

 My feeling is that as you grow more and more in love, and lose limiting beliefs and energetics (i.e. in the form of limiting tendencies, stuck aspects, etc), you will also begin to have less and less overt and more classic like OOBE's.  Seems like that is starting to happen already.  Your current OOBE's sound to me to be taking place first at the upper levels of the etheric/near emotional, and are phasing into faster vibrating levels.

 I'm not saying that you're not a loving, aware, and mature person now, but there are degrees of this.  As i've said, i believe you have a good chance at possibly become a full graduate in the flesh at some point.
 Btw, re: your energetic experiences etc., not sure if you already do this or not, but eating less meat, especially the heavier kinds, will help to facilitate the experience of resonating the physical field of energies with the faster vibrating bodies of mental and spiritual more clearly, more powerfully, and in a more balanced way.  

 I very much agree with the advice of Rosiland's guidance re: this issue.   A lot of physical energy goes into processing meat in the system, which takes away from energy to do other things with the physical energies i.e. conscious mind involved, not to mention the slow vibratorty facilitation that the more dense meats have an effect of due to there being laden with emotional fear energy.  

 But i would not be surprised if you already ate little meat, or were a full vegetarian.   I'm just saying if not, it can only help, and to me is much more than crutch for there are a lot of other benefits besides having more physical energy and a more clear energy system.

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It was as she was observing this "Star" that she had the Kundalini movement.  She said it was this intense White-Blue electrical like energy which reverberated up and down her energy system.

This strikes a chord with my own experiences big time.  During several projections I have come into contact with what at first seems like gigantic starts and planets, but these bodies of consciousness radiate an energy so strong it shatters through my being and causes intense feelings.  I have also seen clusters of stars, probably close to millions, in plain sight, while in higher levels, and my first glance at these "stars" caused a jaw dropping explosion of love coupled with a direct knowledge that these were actually higher self clusters.  


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Dr. Paul LaViolette theorizes that our Galactic Center is not a massive black hole as currently believed by the mainstream, but a massive Mother, Creational Star.

 

It is very interesting that you brought this up, because a few months ago I was having a conversation with a friend about our galaxy, and theorized that perhaps its central point was a giant star, just like our solar system.  I was not aware this was a credible theory, I was taking a shot in the dark.


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Rather these levels are like reflections, of reflections of reality (and depending on what level one is referring to, there are many reflections of reflections involved).

I agree.  The higher levels are reflections of the higher earth energies, just as the lower levels are reflections of the lower energies.


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Btw, re: your energetic experiences etc., not sure if you already do this or not, but eating less meat, especially the heavier kinds, will help to facilitate the experience of resonating the physical field of energies with the faster vibrating bodies of mental and spiritual more clearly, more powerfully, and in a more balanced way.

Funny you should mention this.  Just last month I made the decision to cut down my meat intake to only fish and chicken, and to eat mostly fruits and vegetables.  My food consumption right now is probably 70% vegetables, 20% fruits and 10% meats.  I made this decision after reading McKnight's guidance on the subject.  It really resonated with me.  The benefits of my new diet were seen immediately.  I am not sure about becoming a full vegetarian, however.  I have heard a full veggie diet lacks in some nutritional aspects.  How is your diet these days?  Perhaps you could give me some more advice so I can fine-tune mine.  

You the man Justin!

 Hi Vince,

I've been pretty much a full vegetarian (with a couple indiscretions here and there) for almost 8 years now, and have seemed to do well with that health wise.  It's helped me in a lot of ways.  I did this before i read Rosiland's book, and it was just a natural kind of progression with me.  I lost the taste and appetite for meat, around the same time i became aware of and concerned about animal cruelty.  I also saw a couple interesting references to not eating meat in the Cayce readings.  

 I have O negative blood, and according to some theories (which i think are limited), supposedly my blood type should be eating the most meat.

 What i don't recommend, is gong purely vegan.  I tried this for a few months, out of compassion to all animal suffering, and i didn't feel so well.  I asked guidance about it, and they sent some suggestions.  One was to switch back to a moderate vegetarian lifestyle, and try to source animal products from more responsible and ethical places, and that in such cases, animals don't tend to suffer as much as many Vegans believe they do.  

  There is only one major nutritional issue with being a full vegetarian, and especially a full vegan, and that is B-12.   There are no good non animals sources of this nutrient, and most fortfied foods aren't such a great source of it either.   B-12 has a very tricky nature and doesn't absorb or assimilate very well.   There is a fascinating correlation between this and a Cayce remedy, which i will talk about later.  

 Anyways, i occasionally supplement with a high quality B12 supplement.   All other nutrients can easily be obtained via a balanced and varied vegetarian diet.   The protein issue is much less a concern than many think.  

 Otherwise, to keep up my B12 levels beyond the supplement, i eat a lot of low fat organic yogurt, drink quite a bit of both regular and kefired goat milk, and occasionally eat some sheep or goat cheese (my body can't handly cow dairy excpet in the form of Yogurt).  Also, i occasionally eat either raw or lightly cooked egg yolk (from small, real and organic farms)

 To keep up my protein levels, i eat sprouted breads or cooked grains, eat quinoa, and occasionally some Tempeh (a soybean based food).  The yogurt and goat milk also helps with the protein aspect.

 I avoid most soy products, unless they are both organic and first cultured or fermented in some way (like Tempeh), and even then i make sure to eat these within moderation.  

Hope this helps or gives you some helpful ideas to spring off of.  Thanks, u da man too.  :)   I'm not sure i'm so much the man, as just very intuitive and good at listening (not always, thats for sure!).

 Definitely check out Dr. Paul LaViolette.  He is one of the most interesting and enlightening people that i've so far read.  He strikes me as both a genius, and as one of those that Rosies mentions about some spiritually evolved E.T.'s sending through their energy into human form to help with the changes and with ET to human communications.  

 Anyways, he has many, many interesting theories.  A lot of his work is based around the Galactic Center and cycles related to same, and their influence for the Earth.  

 His info explained in a sound scientific way, the causes behind a vision of mine, of the red skies, and later on a meditation vision of a more super active and reddish tinted Sun.  

 He is sort of like a Bob Monroe, but more in a scientific way and field (he talks talk about non physicality and spiritually too though).

Hi Vince,

 If you do think about going all the way in living a vegetarian lifestyle, i think the way that you are doing it now, as in gradual, is a good way.  It can be hard on the body to completely stop eating all meat right away, and due to that difficulty, some will think "i guess i need to eat meat in order to be healthy", when really its more of a cleansing reaction, and the body trying to adjust to a different way of being from many years of habit.  

  When i was 16, i stopped eating pork (i ate very little of this to begin with previously) and beef, due more to health reasons and concerns.   I ate foul and fish.   Gradually i ate less and less.

 As mentioned, when around 21 or so, i completely lost the taste and appetite for all meat.  Since also around that time i became more aware of and concerned about animal suffering, environmental issues around the meat industry, etc., i decided to completely stop and it was very easy for me.  
Very, very, very rarely, i feel the inner urge to eat a little fish, or recently when i went to a friends around Christmas, he had cooked fish thinking i ate that, and in the spirit of good will i decided i would just eat the fish with him.   I believe its important to not become overly dogmatic, fixed, and extreme regarding any practice or belief.

 Re: Cayce and interesting remedy relating to B12.   Some modern research has shown and suggested that due to its tricky nature, B12 is best absorbed via letting it release slowly in the mouth, and absorbing more that way than via the intestines and through normal digestion.  
 The high quality B12 supplement that i occasionally take, is designed to melt in the mouth and release and absorb primarily that way.  

  Many years ago before this modern research and before a lot was known about B12, Edgar Cayce gave a peculiar remedy for those he specifically said had anemia or his source generally said needed a strengthening of the blood forces within the body physical.  

   What he advised people to do, was to get some kind and amount of beef (i forget what part and how much), chopp it up, and put in a jar, and boil that jar with the beef in water for a time.  

 Eventually the juices from the meat would leach from the fibers, and separate.   Then he said to pour the juice into another jar and immediately cool it.  

  Then, depending on the person and situation, he said to take about a tablespoon or so, of this a couple or few times a day (depended on the individual), and to keep the juice in the mouth and to let it slowly absorb via mouth and mix well with the saliva.

  Now we know that anemia is oft caused by lack of proper amounts of iron and right ratio of certain b vitamins, particularly B12.  

 This "beef broth" remedy would provide both in good measure.  The verification comes in, in that B12 with its tricky and not easily absorbable and assimilated nature which has been shown by more modern research, would absorb ideally (especially if there are digestive issues as there oft are in people with dis-ease or disease as Cayce oft treated) in the mouth and not through normal means of digestion.
 Keep in mind, many of these people were already meat eaters, but they just weren't getting adequate amounts because of digestive issues, maybe not enough meat was being eaten, and because B12 is not the mos easily absorbed and assimilated nutrient to begin with.

 Some research has shown that amongst vegetarians, vegans, and meat eaters, that vegetarians who supplement with B12 tend to have the highest and most proper levels of B12 in the system, compared to even most meat eaters.  

 Vegans who do not supplement with a high quality B12 supplement, and who only occasionally eat fortified foods, tend to have harmfully low levels of B12, which then can lead to all sorts of issues and dis-ease symptoms eventually.  

 From a combo of experience, my intuition, reading McKnights work, and reading Cayce's work, i have come to the conclusion that on average the more material minded a person is, the more their body needs meat or at least the more they are attracted to eating same (McKnights' guidance touches upon this like attracts like issue with meat).
On average, the more spiritually minded a person, and more attuned to PUL, the less of a need for meat in the body physical system, and the less attracted to eating same.    I'm speaking in general, and there are always exceptions to such generalizations.  Such as a spiritually minded and very attuned to PUL kind of person, may get guidance to eat some meat because of dis-ease issues with the body physical, and which would be helped by the specific nutrients found in same.  
 When the body physical is more balanced, strong, and vital, it is easier to maintain that perfect balanced between Spirit, mind, and body which is so necessary in the "ascension" process.   This is also why i believe that some key and influential spiritual teacher/leader types occasionally promoted, or at least practiced themselves, fasting (even Yeshua did, and he seems to have not emphasized diet and health all that much).  
 Its an effective means and a practice of helping to bring these 3 into balance if the right intentions, motivations, etc. are there.