Do you beleive Jesus is coming back to set up his kingdom on earth?he said he will plant in there minds and hearts and change there way,and there will be no more hate in them,they will work there land and grow there own food,and his kingdom will last for ever and ever

George,

The bible says that, but the earth is not eternal, our sun is getting cooler very slowly and will expand into red giant and burn up the earth in the distant future.

Also the Book of Revelation states that the heaven and earth will pass away and god will make a new heaven and earth, unlike this one and it is there that one can exist forever.

There is fundamental law or constant called entropy that makes it impossible for our universe and world to exist forever. Entropy just really means the whole universe is getting colder and colder or putting it another way it is running out slowly of useful energy just like our earth and sun is

Take Care

Alan

I don't know, but perhaps it will come through us. Anybody who lives according to love brings the Christ spirit into the World.

I couldn't tell you everything the Bible has to say about the matter, but when I read the beginning of Thessalonians (I can't remember which one), and other places, it seems as if Paul was telling Christians of his time period that Christ would come again while they were alive; therefore, they should endure the travails they were going through. It doesn't seem like Christ did come again during Paul's time period.

People also refer to the Book of Revelations, which sure seems to be about the time period in which it was written, as a message about the second coming. If it was relevant to the time period, how could a second coming be coming.

It is kind of ironic.  There are Christians today who believe in the rapture who aren't concerned about things such as the environment and national debt (Ronald Reagan was one of these people), because they believe that when the rapture takes place these things won't matter. Yet, yet, they figure John, despite all of the tribulations Christians from his time period were exeperiencing at the hands of the Roman empire (sometimes referred to as satan in the Bible),  didn't have his own time period in mind when he wrote the Book of Revalations. Rather, he was concerned about people two thousand years or so in the future.

Recoverer,


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It is kind of ironic.  There are Christians today who believe in the rapture who aren't concerned about things such as the environment and national debt (Ronald Reagan was one of these people), because they believe that when the rapture takes place these things won't matter

The rapture is not scriptural but an event concocted by an 19 centaury theologian

It is just a dogma of escapism, some people have believed this type of thing to the extent that they gave away all their possessions and waited on a mountain at the precise moment they believed Jesus was coming to fetch them The Millerrites now known as Seventh Day Adventists

Alan

George, just think of what he's already done for you!

People, I swear, they just want a piece of you. I mean, if you're like Jesus, in demand, like he is.

The kingdom of God is within you, George, love, blink

my opinion is the rapture is an internal affair which sort of turns into a wave, but it starts with the individual who then effects the next person and all whom they come in contact with...sort of the 100th monkey is born with new talents then, just knowing already what the others had to learn by trial and error. encoded into the DNA with the new births..sort of. hard to talk about stuff in the bible, as you gotta realize, they had a different language then, a different life style. like burning bushes, that's a symbol for getting a guides message. I'm sure no bush caught on fire, and if it did, it was just a way to get him to listen to his inner voice,  as fire gets attention.

the mind at attention, is an awesome place to be born new ideas of significance to the rest of us..

but rapture, it signifies energy wave to me, all is energy. even our bodies are broken down to energy particles in movement..

we're not as solid as we think we are. and neither is our surroundings.
love, alysia

oh wait, hi George!  yes, I think we will someday allow heaven to be one with Earth. however, I'm not giving you a date!  :)

and by the time earth disappears, I assure you it won't matter to us here now, but just as it disappears, some other planet is born, the way I see it.

Alysia

I like your avatar puppy, I love dogs of al sizes shapes and colors


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and by the time earth disappears, I assure you it won't matter to us here now, but just as it disappears, some other planet is born, the way I see it.

You are right the scientists say the earth will endure for at least another six billion years. Humanity mortal or otherwise would have been long long gone by  then

Love

Alan

George, after all those years of reciting that I believe in the resurrection of the body, I had to start to learn that if the kingdom of God is within, what do you need a body for?

Are you a literalist? I am curious as to why a literalist would be interested in afterlife stuff.

Hello -I don't post too much but I follow your conversations closely -

I was just wondering what your definition of a literalist is? Could one not be a literalist about the afterlife?

I believe the "Kingdom of God" or realm of the spirit is both within and without -I believe this literally, not as faith or belief but as fact based on my experiences.

I don't think that Jesus is coming back to earth to set up a kingdom. That's not saying he hasn't reincarnated or will not incarnate again. He may have that need or there may be others of his disk group that require him to do that in order to progress. (It could be that we are all apart of that same group.) I don't think that he would need to set up a kingdom, with him at the top or as the king. As this would not reflect love but be an expression of ego.
Joe  

Sort of related to Alysia's 100th monkey theory, what if love energy vibrates in a manner so that when it makes contact with other energy, perhaps packets of fear or hate, love causes this negative energy to be transformed into love? This transformed energy will in turn transform other negative energy. If enough people release love energy, it could make a difference. Perhaps this could be a second coming.

Does anybody know if it's possible for energy that vibrates at a fast rate to alter energy that vibrates at a slower rate? Robert Monroe's LOOSH story seems to suggest this.

When your Savior comes back --- He/She will appear to your eyes and faith as YOU want he/she to be. That is the truth.

Hi Recoverer. Don't know about the science, but for sure love energy (or lack of it transmits) - some can transform the vibe in a group very quickly.

Mind seems capable of causing all sorts of energetic influences - from a Tibetan lama I've experienced who caused very striking energetic shifts in a room, to my own experience of switching a lamp when emotionally upset.

You'd be familiar I'm sure with ideas of transmission in Buddhism or I think satsang (?) as (if I have it right) it's called in vedanta - as in the case where a realised person transmits the essence of the realised mind state to those around.

Whatever the terminology it's a widely held view that we're all connected at higher levels of mind.

I don't know if the prime mover mind exerts is energy - isn't there a view in quantum theory that intention interacts with energy to create matter, and vice versa?

I guess as Identcat says pretty much any being we perceive (whether spiritual or relative) is a manifestation of higher mind, in other words of Spirit? - that is brought into existence by the intention of higher mind.

So I suppose the Christ energy can manifest as anything from a herd of cows to a replica of the figure in a holy picture - anytime, anyplace, any form, to suit any tradition. It's all perhaps a matter of higher will/intention...

identicat


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When your Savior comes back --- He/She will appear to your eyes and faith as YOU want he/she to be. That is the truth

How do you know this? Are you sure ?

Alan

Alan McDougall wrote on Oct 14^th, 2008 at 12:35pm:

George, The bible says that, but the earth is not eternal, our sun is getting cooler very slowly and will expand into red giant and burn up the earth in the distant future. Also the Book of Revelation states that the heaven and earth will pass away and god will make a new heaven and earth, unlike this one and it is there that one can exist forever. There is fundamental law or constant called entropy that makes it impossible for our universe and world to exist forever. Entropy just really means the whole universe is getting colder and colder or putting it another way it is running out slowly of useful energy just like our earth and sun is Take Care Alan

I believe there is a counter force to entropy Alan..Its human consciousness....acka "The Never Ending Story" The sun may be cooling down but that will only affect us on Planet Earth Millions of Years in the Future.It has no bearing on our Earthly situation right now.Its not worth talking about actually.It doesn't help the human condition at this time.

devayan..



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believe there is a counter force to entropy Alan..Its human consciousness....acka "The Never Ending Story" The sun may be cooling down but that will only affect us on Planet Earth Millions of Years in the Future.It has no bearing on our Earthly situation right now.Its not worth talking about actually.It doesn't help the human condition at this time.

I said the sun would cool down and turn into a red gaint in about six billion years

But George asked if we are going to live forever on an eternal earth and I said no

But your point is taken as far as us mere mortal that time span is as good as eternal to us

I have two brothere and their families living in Ausie, one in Sydney and the other in Bribane

Alan

recoverer wrote on Oct 16^th, 2008 at 1:52pm:

Sort of related to Alysia's 100th monkey theory, what if love energy vibrates in a manner so that when it makes contact with other energy, perhaps packets of fear or hate, love causes this negative energy to be transformed into love? Does anybody know if it's possible for energy that vibrates at a fast rate to alter energy that vibrates at a slower rate? Robert Monroe's LOOSH story seems to suggest this.

not sure if my answer would be in answer to this question, yet somewhere on this board Ian answers this in a way, about how a teacher can change the vibrations in the room with his own energy. I don't think packets of fear, or hate is appropriate descriptional terminology, as hate and fear do not live inside a person as a packet. hate and fear are not things in that sense.

what a person feels, as an emotional factor can be transmuted by love, of the unconditional sort, yet the habitual feelings will return to that person once they are not in the same area of that sender's proximity, because a person has to change their belief system before the emotional content changes of their being.

but I see where u are heading with this thought...PUL has a mind expanding potential. it also expands the sensory system, and effects pockets of disease within the body physical.

It would seem, a person can generate an electrical field around them with this PUL, and we call it presence sometimes. they then can use this electrical field to project an astral body, for purposes of healing, exploration, etc.
some people who walk into a room can generate attention without saying a word. In some cases it is PUL doing the talking.
Or u could say their energy field is touching the other's energy field, which promotes the attention factor. because we are all recognizing what PUL is. It is one mind, joined in PUL.
as I see it, each person must realize it from within, you can't get love from another person that is stable love, but you can get a lot of boost from others, which helps a lot.

Heck!! I keep making keystroke errors My eyes are stll adjusting

Alan

Alan McDougall wrote on Oct 19^th, 2008 at 8:18am:

Heck!! I keep making keystroke errors My eyes are stll adjusting Alan

how long will  it take did the doctor say Alan, for your eyes to completely adjust? maybe you don't want to strain your eyes right now?

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I was just wondering what your definition of a literalist is? Could one not be a literalist about the afterlife?

I've been thinking about this a little for a while now. Clearly one needs to define one's terms!

'Literal' used to mean to me something that could be defined in physical terms or in physical reality. I guess I think it is a characteristic of C1.

Do I think that Jesus (as he appeared 2000 years ago) wll literally return in the physical and the lions will play with the lambs?

Probably not.

But then I am left with the problem of defining (for myself if for no one else) what is symbolic and what that means. For instance, when I read a poem that resonates with me, and I know the symbolism is not meant to be taken literally, then what is happening? What is Reality?

And are there...things...that are literally true even though not expressed physically?

I think you mean to say that 'literal' means that it is real (whatever real means). Did anyone ever refer to the afterlife as merely symbolic?

___________________________

One thing related to this that tickles my mind is noticing how spiritual truths can be taken different ways....each person thinks they have the 'literal' meaning.

This morning as I moived through the tv channels, one caught my ear. An eveangelical type minister was quoting New Testament verses and commenting on them.  It struck me that what he was saying was pretty close in essence to what some things in The Secret say, and to some things that Eckard Tolle writes. Yet from the results, I would guess that each group interprets the same thing slightly differently. This illustrates some of the problem of defining what 'literal' means.

_______________________

I like the symbolic level but I don't know why.

I also like Blake:

Little lamb, who made thee?
Dost thou know who made thee,
Gave thee life, and bade thee feed
By the stream and o’er the mead;
Gave thee clothing of delight,
Softest clothing, wooly, bright;
Gave thee such a tender voice,
Making all the vales rejoice?
Little lamb, who made thee?
Dost thou know who made thee?

Little lamb, I’ll tell thee;
Little lamb, I’ll tell thee:
He is called by thy name,
For He calls Himself a lamb,
He is meek, and He is mild,
He became a little child;
I a child, and thee a Lamb,
We are called by His Name.
Little lamb, God bless thee!
Little lamb, God bless thee!

I guess Einstein would say it's all relative Lucy.

nice poem. I found a tune on the internet by Tom T. Hall, I think.

when you talk to a goat you say Baaaa!

when you talk to a chicken you say cluck cluck.

you don't say meow to a cow.

you don't say cluck cluck to a baby goat. you say baaaaa!

lol.

Quote Lucy: "For instance, when I read a poem that resonates with me, and I know the symbolism is not meant to be taken literally, then what is happening? What is Reality?"
It's just that our means of perception aren't working as some modern models are suggesting, that everything comes in bit for bit and then these bits are connected. It's more like whole packages, like Monroe's rotes, so that we know precisely a whole situation, without being able to tell about the details.
We are context-sensitive. When we hear about lions and lambs within a context, we know for example it means peace on earth.
There is this thing called "Nonverbal communication". That's something one becomes familiar with when meditating in the TMI- and Bruce Moen-style. You don't know what you communicated in words, but still you know it- only it takes some effort to express it in words afterwards, and never the wording is totally correct. I guess we all do this nonverbal thing, but in it's pure form it is so different from our verbal thinking/communicating, that it can be scary sometimes, as it is a bit like loosing structure and control.

Spooky