Images of Hitler's Extermination Camps have been deleted.  I find these images to be Off Topic for this website and personally objectionable.  I agree that these images depict an extreme form of evil caused by an extremely evil man, culture and set of beliefs, but their posting here is not acceptable for the purposes of this forum.  If the author of this post would like to provide a link to the deleted images so that those visitors who choose to view them have that opportunity, I have no objection to that.

Bruce



May he and his kind burn in hell forever, just like he burned these poor innocent victims

My mother was Jewish Siderrasky and if we had lived in Poland (Were she came from) ou whole family would have been murdered by this evil beast

Do not ever tell me Hitler is in heaven "I SAW HIM IN HELL"

What it is the purpose of this post?

Mr.  Donald Walshe and others insist that dear Mr. Hitler is now in heaven, maybe sitting on the lap of Jesus.

Maybe Jesus said to him you naughty boy next time you get a tap on your backside. This is New Age nonsense

Well is easy for me to describe goodness But Hitler and his evil Nazi followers were the ultimate in human depravity, “May they burn in hell forever”

My mother was a Jew and all my family of more that 200 innocent people would have been murdered by this beastly regime

May he and his kind burn in hell forever just like he burned his poor victims (I repeat)

The next time I here nonsense like Hitler singing joyously amongst the angels I will throw up.

We are accountable to a Holy Divine God for our actions, good or Evil,
This is an unavoidable fact. There is darkness and there is Light.

There is Hate and there is Love.

God is not some white haired old granddaddy afraid of his own creation; he can be a refining fire,

I can remember the Second World War albeit as a small boy and I had to listen to my mothers sorrow for her people Of course the true reality of this despicable unspeakable depravity was not then known

Maybe you are going to tell me this post does not belong in this segment. How many lives were ended and sent into the afterlife long before they should of?

6 000 000 Jews?
400 000 000 Russians?

15 000 000 others ?

60 000 000?


 

Does it make you uncomfortable? The truth can hurt

Alan,

You wrote:
Do not ever tell me Hitler is in heaven "I SAW HIM IN HELL"

If you saw Hitler in hell anyway, and if you want him so much to be there, why do you sound so upset?

You wrote here, that he received the punishment he deserved according to your beliefs.

You wrote:
"Does it make you uncomfortable? The truth can hurt "

No, the truth does not hurt me. I believe the truth is necessary to learn from it.

We know how much lifes Hitler destroyed. BUT, there is a difference between knowing it and experiencing it, like your family did. I cannot talk about how it must feel. I can only try to imagine.

I am so sorry that this ever happened.
I wish Hitler would have been good.
I wish people wouldn't have voted for him.
I wish german soldiers would have fought Hitler instead of supporting him.
I wish all countries would have seen what he really did and made an effort to stop him much faster, before their would be any harm.

Everything I can wish for, will not change the past,
but I wish humanity would learn from all the mistakes made during that war,
and all the consequences that are implied.
I wish, like you, we would understand the suffering caused and be reminded of it,
so that it would never happen again.

I believe you can never receive enough understanding, for what was endured, by you, your family and so many others.

Sonia

Alan, it is a fact that, as humans, there is always someone, sometime, somewhere, who would like to kill us. For some, that is not good enough. They would like to torture too. There are countless reasons.

The question is, how do we deal with it?

I've had my life threatened numerous times. In fact, I have escaped death more than once. I could go through my life with a fine toothed comb and find every moment in which I felt put upon, murdered psychologically, my very existence as a legitimate being questioned by life itself.

So, I can understand pain.

We all love you here, Alan, and I am truly sorry you are suffering with these very upsetting and painful images.

sending love and healing, right now, blink

Sonia,


Quote:

If you saw Hitler in hell anyway, and if you want him so much to be there, why do you sound so upset?

"The thread was not directed at you it is directed at anyone who is silly enough to believe the abject nonsense that Hitler lives peaceful with God.

My heart overflows with deep anger when I think that this monster would have thought less of my wonderful loving mother, "than he did of a cockroach"


I get really really upset and mad when I read accounts from the likes of Neal Donald Walsche who supposedly has direct communication buddy buddy minute by minute with almighty God, who supposidly told him that Hitler now resides in heaven


He decidedly does not I did not put Hitler in hell he put himself there. May he remain there forever? I simply cannot find any mercy or forgiveness in my heart for him.

And I hope that God also does not, extinction is too good a punishment for this beast

Alan

Your right Alan, the part about the truth hurting. I feel for your pain. Hitler most likely has ended up in a heaven. I always had been given the impression that God forgives sin. Even Hitlers sins. Don't forget that Hitler wasn't out there killing people. Your anger is misdirected. What about the people who were doing all that killing? What about those Jews that were more than happy to turn in their neighbors to save themselves. What about those Catholics at the Vatican that turned a blind eye in order to bring in a very large amount of money into their good Church. What about those Americans and English, Canadians, Russians, Japanese, etc, who did all but the same sort of thing. Rape, murder, steal from the week and oppressed. You see, they won, (except the Japanese) you are not showing the evil on that side. It also sickens me to think that all this energy and emotion is directed to one man when it more deserving should go to many. Or even better, released in order to let yourself free. Your personal attack on Hitler shows me where you are spiritually. Good luck Alan.

Hawkeye

I am talking about "Hitler", not all those others people you mention. he was accountable for every horror of te war just as if he murdered each innocent soul himself

He is in hell i saw him there, very few people are evil enough , however to end up there.

Go to Kevin Williams Near Death forum and you will read account from people who have seen hells that make the Christian hell look like a teddy bears picnic

Think about the word: Peace.

Does this word belong to any person in particular?

I think it belongs to everyone, Alan, no matter who they are. This is a question which is difficult for me sometimes, I admit.

But, that's where I stand on this subject, as you, most likely, know by now....

Perhaps you will explain why you were there with him in that hell?  Hitler was, nor is, accountable for all the atrocities of the second world war. In my personal view, that is a ridiculous statement. I feel for all of those effected by the actions of hate and fear during the second world war but your targeting of one person only as the cause of "all" evils of the second world war is not appropriate.  
There is no Christian Hell except for those Christians who believe it as being. That includes any and all other types of hell that could be envisioned.
I should also clarify that I am not a Jew nor did I have family killed in a concentration camp. Perhaps if I had been indoctrinated during my upbringing to never forgive, I would feel different.

Thanks Bruce for your moving these posts (pictures) to a more appropriate place.

Blink, and others,

Jesus said "I come to bring peace but not the peace of the world but the peace beyond all understanding" Jesus said "I am the truth the life and the way"

Hilter said "I bring war not a war like any before but a war unlike the world has ever seen" "Hitler was a liar and brought death and the way to hell"

There are not two ways

I choose Jesus.

Hi alan I'm sure i read once in Doris Stokes the mediums book she wrote that there is a very low plain where evil people go such as Hitler and the higher spirits come down there and asked who wants to rise and have remorse but some of them spirits are so evil they refuse to rise and i beleive that Hitler would refuse to rise because hes to evil.

I  cannot forgive Hitler myself as i cant come to terms that he should be forgiven,if someone murdered my children i would never forgive that either and in all honesty here i dont think anyone on here would forgive someone who murdered there children.

Hitler belongs in hell and i love God and i feel God understands when we dont forgive as we are all human.

I'm not jewish alan but i hate and dispise Hitler for what he did to the jewish people and the jewish children,Hitler had no right to do what he did,he broke Gods commandment "Thou shalt not kill" he deserves to suffer in hell and if he suffers for eternity,it would not make up for the terrible suffering he caused the jewish people and children,God forgive me as i will never forgive Hitler as long as i live.

Love and God bless   love juditha

I figure that if Hitler decides to become honest about what he did and seeks to change his ways, no being who lives according to love would prevent him from doing so. In fact, they would provide him with as much help as possible.

We exist for all of eternity. What are we going to do, condem a person for all of eternity? What would be the point of doing such a thing if Hitler changed his ways and all of Hitler's victims have become light beings that are completely happy?

Related to what Juditha wrote, I had a dream one night where Hitler was in a room all by himself and the room was filled with cobwebs. The cobwebs symbolized a reality he weaved for himself.  Imagine what his life review would be like, whenever, he chooses to rejoin the light.

There have been times where I felt bad for spirits in lower realms, and in some way my guidance would show me that spirits in such realms are  completely free to leave a lower realm if they choose to change their ways. Nobody forces them to be there.

In a way I find this issue puzzling, because when I look at this World I see there are so many situations where a person can be influenced in a negative way. Yet, I've been told that we always have the choice to choose a positive way to live our lives.

I believe what happens is that sometimes people make bad choices early on, and the more they do so the more they seperate themselves from their divine self and the deeper they dig their own hole of darkness. They lose contact with their conscious.

This reminds me of an image I was shown recently. First I saw a ball of white light that was made up of numerous points of light which represented Souls. A few of these points of light jumped off of the ball of light and into the darkness that surrounded the ball of light. Then I heard the words: "They thought they were more important than everybody else."

Quote:

Thanks Bruce for your moving these posts (pictures) to a more appropriate place.

Oh!! So there is an appropriate place, where exactly is that?

recoverer


Quote:

We exist for all of eternity. What are we going to do, condem a person for all of eternity? What would be the point of doing such a thing if Hitler changed his ways and all of Hitler's victims have become light beings that are completely happy?

I said I saw him in hell I never said he would remain there forever

Alan:

I wasn't speaking to you specifically.  



Alan McDougall wrote on Oct 10^th, 2008 at 3:59pm:

recoverer Quote: We exist for all of eternity. What are we going to do, condem a person for all of eternity? What would be the point of doing such a thing if Hitler changed his ways and all of Hitler's victims have become light beings that are completely happy? I said I saw him in hell I never said he would remain there forever

Recoverer

If I commit crimes of the most heinous depravity against little children and the Judge or Jury finds me guilty and sentences me to death or life in prison.

Using your logic. I could just say to the judge "I am so so sorry that I molested little children for the past 30 years and I have really changed my evil reprobate ways"..

Would the judge,  "have you really?, "promise me you have". I say your honor I really have, OK in that case you are free to go, take off his shackles

The attributes of God are not just love.

Alan

One thing that is helpful for me to remember is that no one can take my love for them away from me without my permission. No one can take my acceptance of them away from 'my experience' without my permission. If I so choose, I can watch someone take every iota of my reality away from me and still see that person as a human being who makes mistakes.

This may seem like an unlikely claim. Anger is only human, right?

But, tell me, how is anyone going to learn how to love if no one is willing to show them?

We can always raise the bar. We can always say, well, I will forgive this and this and this, but never that.

I have no earthly idea what I will be required to forgive in this lifetime. I've seen a lot. But why not practice love, as much as possible, for as long as possible?

If each of us went through our lives and wrote a list of all the times we have hurt someone intentionally or unknowingly, we might be surprised. I know that there is nothing anyone, even Hitler, has done, that I have not done.

So, chances are, if he's in Hell, I'll be saying hello to him sometime. I hope, even in hell, everyone has someone who can sit beside him/her without hate in his/her heart.

This question is so perplexing. I think I'll need to meditate with this a while.

love, blink

Alan:

The key is that a spirit doesn't get to move towards the light until it is truly sorry for the misdeeds it committed and wants to change. When it reaches this point dishonesty won't be a part of the equation. When it reaches this point, it will feel far worse about what it has done than anyone else will feel. If a spirit lets go of a negative way of being, what is left over to condem?


Alan McDougall wrote on Oct 10^th, 2008 at 4:22pm:

Recoverer If I commit crimes of the most heinous depravity against little children and the Judge or Jury finds me guilty and sentences me to death or life in prison. Using your logic. I could just say to the judge "I am so so sorry that I molested little children for the past 30 years and I have really changed my evil reprobate ways".. Would the judge,  "have you really?, "promise me you have". I say your honor I really have, OK in that case you are free to go, take off his shackles The attributes of God are not just love. Alan

Hi recoverer I saw this programme on the TV and it was called "songs of praise" and it was about all the men women and children that died in the gas chambers and they had this picture what was being shown of a little jewish girl dressed up ready to go in the gas chamber and you could see the fear and the sadness in that little girls eyes and as they were showing this picture of her ,they were singing "make me a channel of your peace" and i just cried and cried because i could see her frightened little expression on her face and Hitler was the most unfeeling monstosity that was allowed to walk this earth plain,he showed no mercy to these innocent children so i feel he should suffer  for what hes done,God knows i cannot forgive Hitler and God knows that i still have love in my soul so i think God understands me.

Love and God bless  love juditha

Juditha:

Don't forget Jesus' prodigal son story.

What would be better? To make it so that Hitler's spirit remains negative for all of eternity or an extended period of time so vengence can be sent his way, or to allow his nature to change for the better, so a negative minded spirit no longer exists?

Howard Storm wrote that during his NDE Jesus showed him what happened to Jewish people who were exterminated. He saw their spirits exit smoke stacks and get greeted by thousands of angels.  I heard him speak about this on youtube. If I remember correctly, he doesn't believe he saw an actual event where spirits rose after having their bodies were killed.  Rather, he saw a symbolic representation of what happens to spirits after they are killed.  Their spirits can never be harmed by the actions of another.

What would be harmful is if these spirits held on to resentment towards Hitler. They wouldn't accomplish anything positive if they did so. Instead, they would allow negative feelings to occupy a part of their Souls rather than allowing their Souls to live according to love completely.

Recoverer


Quote:

Juditha: Don't forget Jesus' prodigal son story.

To try and equate the prodigal son parable with the life of Hitler stretches credulity to the utter limit. The life of the prodigal son and that of the prodigal son are just not comparable, the prodigal son loved his father and even when doing wrong knew he was doing wrong.

And he went on his knees and wept and asked forgiveness, he did not shoot himself in the head like the coward Hitler

The prodigal son is as different and far apart from Hitler, as one is to infinity; the Father of the prodigal son always remained his “father (GOD”). Hitler never considered his father to be God, he like all despots only used religion to further for his own evil purposes

Hitler was no prodigal son of God, that story relates to a son that although he had left his beloved father or parent and about a son that, knew his he had taken a wrong path of life against his fathers will.

Hitler had total disregard for the will of God

Hitler disowned God and only used the concept of a divine being for his own purposes. He removed Bibles and replaced then with his Mein Kampft In that in that book one can read his premeditated plans to eliminate (murder) all those that stood in his path and all those he hated

He was an entity of hate not love


There is a verse in the Bible that says “there is a sin against God or man for which there is no forgiveness in this life "or the next life” I think it anyone crossed that threshold it must be Hitler.

If this is correct even after death Hitler might have gone beyond the almost infinite mercy of God and reached the utter ultimate depravity to reach this abysmal dark depth of ultimate evil. There are very very few humans in history that reached this level of evil and that is why I only saw a few there, and they were not being tormented day and night in flames, just separated.

My anger is not Gods, I  would have put them is the Christian type of hell. I just can not rap my mind around the fact that another human being can get glee out of watching little children, mothers, young men and woman and old men being disposed of like vermin in the ovens of death.

The Jewish people called the death camps gates “The gates of hell”

Please try and put yourselves in the shoes of the innocent victims. think about their destiny please. Although this would be difficult as Hitler removed all the shoes of the slain and gave then out to his poor suffering population.

Alan

"You Hitler Evil are just like your dark spiritual father and the depravity of your dark father pervaded your soul while you lived on earth.

You were a murderer from the beginning, a liar and no truth could be found in you.  Because there is no truth in you, you believed only in evil. When you spoke it was a lie.


And because I Alan tell you the truth, you did not believe me, so now you exist with the consequences

There was only one word that moved men from love to hate and that was a lie

Alan

Dear Alan,

Please find something else to focus on. I really think this is harming you.

Here is a thought for you. Even Hitler was once a little baby, a little child. If you were to visit this little child, this little boy, how would you speak to him? Would this little child be able to understand what was to become of his life?

Many of us do not understand how we have come to be where we are, so lost.

So, we can afford to have understanding for those who have not found their way, no matter how difficult it is to do.

There is nothing wrong with mourning the dead, Alan. But we must be careful. This is a very dark, grey picture that we see, sometimes. We are asked to look beyond what is obvious to see what is underneath.

There is more to this story, I feel. Perhaps one day you will agree with me. But it is not really important whether you agree with me.

I would just like to see an end to your suffering, and I believe there will be one.

love, blink


Alan McDougall wrote on Oct 11^th, 2008 at 4:31am:

"You Hitler Evil are just like your dark spiritual father and the depravity of your dark father pervaded your soul while you lived on earth. You were a murderer from the beginning, a liar and no truth could be found in you.  Because there is no truth in you, you believed only in evil. When you spoke it was a lie. And because I Alan tell you the truth, you did not believe me, so now you exist with the consequences There was only one word that moved men from love to hate and that was a lie Alan

Alan,


Alan McDougall wrote on Oct 10^th, 2008 at 3:45pm:

Oh!! So there is an appropriate place, where exactly is that?

The appropriate place is where ever on the web or your own personal computer you find them, not as part of a post anywhere on this website.  Many vistors will find these images shocking, repulsive and disturbing, which they are and should be to any normal human being.  But it is not the intent of this website to surprise visitors with involuntarily be exposed to shocking, repulsive and disturbing images.

Bruce

Hi I love you all,but alan feels so strongly about the evil Hitler did and i agree with him that you could try and put yourselves in the jewish peoples shoes and try and see how they felt ,when mothers had there children snatched away from them and there children crying for there parents,theres no excuse for what Hitler did,he was evil and sadistic and deserves no mercy from anyone.

I would like to ask you all this question"Would you forgive someone for murdering your child or children and also your family"I would not forgive no way never,so would you all forgive this.

I  will never forgive Hitler either,he does not deserve forgiveness and alan was right hitler took the cowards way out and shot himself,thats why hes in that lowest plain because he wouldnt want to move from there because if he did he would have to face up to what he did and feel all the pain and suffering he caused the jewish people and hes to evil and to much of a coward to do that.

I love God with all my heart but there are some things you cant forgive and one of them is Hitler.

I ask again could you all forgive someone that murdered your child or children and your family.

Love and God bless   love juditha

I am sorry if this is painful for you to hear, Juditha, but the answer for me is yes. I don't expect you to feel the way I do. That would be unreasonable.

love, blink

I have to admit I'm surprised by some of the venom expressed on this subject. And no, I'm not excusing Hitler or any part of the holocaust.
But has everyone forgotten that if we're looking at killing people off in great numbers, the Stalinist purges over the decades in Russia make Adolf Hitler look like amateur night? And if you could calculate numbers from the dictators of past centuries you'd find other examples.
So can we level the playing field?
I'd like to take another angle here.
From what I've read, we all agree in our pre-life plans before we incarnate this time to where and when we're going to live; not only choosing bodies, families, partners, etc, but also the country that we'll live in, AND THE POSSIBILITY OF WARS/MAJOR DISASTERS.

So remember the maxim: There are no victims, only volunteers. (I think Denise Linn mentions that in her books.)

So I'm asking (because I don't claim to know anything on this): did all the folks who've suffered and died in pogroms and holocausts over the centuries agree at a soul level to take part. Obviously, when you're back home (up there?) you'll maybe be thinking 'Wow, that was an experience and a half. Okay, been there, done that, what's next?'

You plan a lifetime, but you also know how you're going to exit this life. It could be peacefully surrounded by family and friends, it might be in a car accident, it might be in a war. Although from what I've read, free will can mess even that one up!

So Hitler (and Stalin for that matter) might have been acting a very important role in being in the positions that they were in and providing a large chunk of humanity with a crash course in extreme experiences:  war, death, blind ignorance, paranoia, pain.
But through that, maybe some of the souls that experienced this may have found themselves developing soul compassion and empathy to a level and at a speed that normally would have taken many lifetimes to achieve.
That's not to say that they weren't very dark and shady characters, but I would also try looking at the powers behind the throne; the ones who probably aren't in the history books. Maybe the 'great' dictators were only front men for something else entirely.
But (and this is a big but) in the scheme of thousands of lifetimes, maybe the one as a dictator is an important one that might incur a lot of extra karma, but in the end balances out through thousands of other lives spent redeeming the soul quality and refining it through experience and realisation.
But if Shakespeare was right on the money with 'all the world's a stage and the men and women on it merely players', are we playing a part in a play, and at the end of the play (this current life) we got home and choose another part completely?
So if Neale Donald Walsch is correct, the artist formerly known as Hitler
is now planning (may even be living) a life somewhere as a quiet monk or doctor in the most deprived part of the world (or universe?) you can  imagine, and -FROM CHOICE.

Needless to say I can't prove any of this and I can't back it up. It's all conjection on my part and others here will be able to either rebut or back up my thoughts.
You may not forgive Hitler, but you don't know what his original lfe plan was supposed to have been, how it got subverted, and also the life plans of his victims.
I'm guessing that this ELS looks a whole lot different from over there.

Hope that this helps,
Love and best wishes to all,

David. :)

Quote:

So I'm asking (because I don't claim to know anything on this): did all the folks who've suffered and died in pogroms and holocausts over the centuries agree at a soul level to take part.

Hi David,

Very thoughtful post!

I’m not sure how much pre-planning takes place. It could be as little as simply making a commitment to participate in the ELS knowing full well that one would have the freedom and the ability to choose either good/love or evil/fear. The difference between these two opposing concepts results in a perceived power struggle that sets the stage for the evolution of consciousness.

Initially the struggle begins with an internalized survival instinct that produces fear. In our attempt to survive in an unfamiliar world we create an ego identity with form. Our ego identity is really an attempt at righting ourselves with the spiritual wisdom we’d been born with, but lost as we identified more and more with form. Bottom line is all of the horrendous destructive behavior we have seen and continue to see in our world is the result of fear, which in turn results from the identification of form.

Hitler, others including you and me all acquired an ego identity that evolved the idea that in order to survive we must live fearlessly. The question that arises is… How? To the ego living fearlessly means superiority and in order to be superior one must have power and in order to have power one must use force and in order to use force one must have money and in order to get money one must…  and so it goes.

Even though we lost most of our spiritual wisdom, we haven’t lost it all and out of this retained inner wisdom; our sense of morality developed and continues to evolve as we learn more about who/what we really are. Though all of the trials and tribulations in the ELS not a single one of us, including the Hitlers of the world are ever completely disconnected from God. We all are of God just like the cells in our bodies are of us. This may be a poor analogy, but maybe one could say we are like cells of God. We are insignificant yet extremely important to the evolution of the whole of consciousness.

Love, Kathy

Hi Kathy,
thanks for the reply: very welcome.
From my reading of Michael Newton's books there can be a quite detailed plan of the future life. The more lifetimes we have under our belts, the more we begin to understand the ELS, and we can start to look at particular aspects of ourselves through those experiences, which includes handling the ego. As I understand it, you might decide in order to progress more/quickly to have a lifetime of real hardship to find out about soul qualities that you either lack or need to explore, and as part of that you may mix with some very unsavoury characters, or indeed become one.
My point is that through experiencing terror, extermination, hatred as both victim AND PERPRETRATOR in different lifetimes your soul (you) comes to fully understand both sides of the coin; what makes someone 'sell his/her soul' to the devil (who is a Christian church construct anyway?), and also experience the results of that persons' actions.
So you get to directly experience this. For example, I might have had a life as a concentration camp guard/executioner, and also a parallel life as a victim of that executioner. Effectively, I kill myself!
Or, you might find that you work with members of your soul group: I'll murder you this time around, you can murder me next time around, then after that we'll get married, then I can be your grandpa....... all options are open I suppose. Sometimes the hardest experiences are with the closest souls.

Newton's books to me have been a revelation. I know that I'm going to have to judge myself at the end of this life and look at all the errors I made, and there's no rationalisations and excuses available.
But the point is that no-one judges you: You do it all, and you can be far harsher on yourself than any judge.
(I know I beat myself up for England in the past over things I've done wrong...)

So (getting back to the point :)): just imagine what Hitler would have felt after committing suicide.
(as a side issue, there are various reports that he actually escaped and survived until at least 1958, but that's for another discussion elsewhere).
You've committed suicide, you realise that you still exist, and you undergo the life review.
Now remember that to all intents and purposes, morally Hitler was crazier than a one legged tap dancer, so getting back into spirit might seem like waking from a terrible nightmare, as for the first time in a lifetime (?) he would actually be thinking clearly. No ideologies, no excuses, no belief system to hang on to. You actually see what you've done and relive it. With no cushion of expediency and rationalisation to excuse things, there's no refuge.
So after time alone for deep reflection, it's time to go to the guides and plan what issues to work on. I don't feel that Hitler/Stalin/(insert evil dude here) may be inherently spiritually evil or negative, more diseased. The healing may have to be in the form of experiencing what you inflicted upon others directly, having a lifetime in a very emotionally hard and unforgiving environment, or even having a life on some strange planet where you hardly live at all.
Now all of this is conjection on my part...again  ::)
But I wouldn't myself start slagging off Hitler (or any despot -what's Mugabe's standing spiritually at the moment?) without knowing the full soul story, and that -of course- is impossible for us in the ELS.
Like the American Indian saying: walk a mile in my shoes.
(and at the end, you'll be a mile away and I won't have any shoes  ;D).

That doesn't mean that we all sit back and relax and let said 'evil dude' continue. But just realise that there are much bigger issues in anyone's life than might be immediately apparent to the outsider.

And finally (sorry for the rambling nature of this post by the way :-[)

quoting Alan:
"There is a verse in the Bible that says “there is a sin against God or man for which there is no forgiveness in this life "or the next life” I think it anyone crossed that threshold it must be Hitler."

Alan, I would regard this quote with some suspicion. The guys who wrote that I'm guessing had an agenda. We all know that the Bible has been subject to an immense amount of revision for political purposes, and one of the tenets of the 'evil church dudes' might basically be summed up as:
'Do what we say or else. Do what we say or after this life you're really going to get it. Even God won't forgive you.'
Well it seems to me that a supreme being who is represented in the bible as a jealous god (10 commandments), loving god, wrathful, demanding obeisance at the slightest pretext, is a bit of a basket case and schizophrenic in the extreme. The Bible version of God has got it wrong, ergo God is not the perfect all being being that established churches would like to con you about.

The basic point as I understand it is that we have free will as our birthright. Therefore, we have the right to screw up royally for as many lifetimes as we want and big G is just going to sit there and let us get on with it. It's our game, and we judge ourselves on the results -not big G, who is way above anything we can conceive of anyway, and probably has far more important things to do, like running everything we can conceive of and much more that we can't.

This lifetime is only one of thousands, hundreds of thousands, maybe millions of lifetimes that we'll experience in this universe, and that's not counting all the other universes we have/will experience.
Each life gives us the experiences of everything: saint in one, mass murderer in another, wealthy tycoon here, pauper there, religious bigot here, spiritual pioneer there.
It all adds up in the end.
And we'll all get there in the end .
We can't fail, it's guaranteed.
All we have to decide is by which route and how long it's going to take to get there.

Lots of love to all

David.
:)

Going by the information I've received the spirit World provides souls for the many difficult incarnations that exist in this World not because they want to, but because we keep creating them. When we enable this World to be a better place, the spirit World will have better options. The souls who volunteer for difficult incarnations are really courageous.

Consider this matter. About 65 billion animals are raised in harsh conditions each year in order that they can be eaten. Is it desirable to incarnate souls into these lifetimes, or is it simply a matter of there being no choice?