Below are some of the reasons I don't believe A Course in Miracles is a good source to rely on. In the spirit of being able to believe as we like, please feel free to disagree with the points I made.

1. The course says that this World wasn't created by God, because everything God creates is perfect.  This can lead people to believe that the World is separate from God. It also leads to the assumption that something other than God exists, because it contends that something other than God created this World.

2. Related to number one, when you look at the big picture, despite the problems that can be found within this World, the World isn't imperfect. It is just that we have to go through some growing pains. Unfortunately, it seems like we're going through more than we need to go through. This doesn't mean that God created something imperfect. It just means that as a part of his plan he provided us with free will.

3. The course speaks of how nothing you see is real; therefore, you don't have to be concerned about the troubles in the World. It is true that what we go through isn't permanent and doesn't represent the ultimate end, but while people and other forms of life live in this World their life is real, therefore, they do indeed suffer. Also, the story of this World doesn't come to an end until we bring it to an end in a hopefully positive way.

4. The course places too much of an emphasis on the ego. To an extent where a person might end up creating an ego like aspect of mind that is beyond what they already have. We do exist as individual Souls, and even when we become aware of the oneness again our individuality doesn't go away. The bodies we make use of include a self-defense instinct. If we give this instinct more credit than it deserves by creating an ego like aspect of mind, we give our self-defense instinct too much power. If we place too much emphasis on trying to see that we aren't here, we lose track of the goal of developing ourselves as much as possible. It is very possible that when our bodies pass away and we leave this World, the self-defense instinct we make use of will be left behind with our bodies. Therefore, we don't have to overcome our egos in the way ACIM suggests.  It will be more of a matter of looking at the psychological issues and beliefs that prevent us from moving forward towards the light.

5. ACIM states things such as we are afraid of God, we have guilt because we separated from him, and that we "hate" God. There is actually a statement within the course that says we hate God. I don't buy this. Regarding guilt, why should we feel guilty about taking part in a growth process that is a part of the divine plan? How are we supposed to learn what existence is about and develop uniqueness and capabilities, if we don't go through some sort of growth process?

6. The course relies on affirmations too much. Spiritual growth doesn't take place by making a bunch of affirmations. It comes by letting go of limitations. If one takes a path that involves making a bunch of affirmations, one will end up encasing one's self in a belief system. This is true regardless of how positive the ingredients of a belief system seem to be. The fact of this can be seen when one becomes defensive when one's belief system is questioned. True knowledge doesn't need to be defended. True knowledge doesn't need to express it self through the words of a course.

7. The course has many words yet there are things it doesn't talk about one would think a course from Christ would talk about. One way in which people try to brainwash people, is by having a person read basically the same thing over and over again. If you get them to read it enough, chances are they will take on a belief system they will be afraid to question. When I read the course for a while I could tell that it has a brainwashing effect. In the past I've posted an article where course teacher Hugh Prather spoke about how most of the course members he met years after they started the course were very narrow minded.

8. If the course doesn't actually come from Christ, then to the extent it disagrees with the truth Christ represents, it will mislead a person.

Here is another link about the course. It has information I provided before, plus some new information.

http://www.losangeleschronicle.com/articles/46708

I don't think it matter what the religion or the indoctrination is. I think they are all into mind control. Whether the channeling of Jesus Christ in an effort to solicit funds, or the interpretation by some religious groups that allow the molestation of young girls, to the ones who would allow their children to die instead of getting them medical help. That makes ACIM no better or worse than any of the other, what I consider, mind control cults or as some call them, religions. They can all be dangerous if you allow them the control of your mind. I personally think that some people are so week of mind that they need religion. Need to be told what to believe in. Need to be told who and what God is. How many times, in recoveries, have you gone to Focus 26 and assisted in moving one from this area? Many stuck in their religions and beliefs. How many times have you heard of a person claiming to have heard the voice of God and then started their own religion or cult? To many for me. From the Jim Jones types to the Branch Davidians or what ever they are called. Then the "Saviour" of that group in Texas that is into molesting children.  Yup, all OK because they heard the voice of God. I could go on and on. So I agree in part with Recoverer. It may not be a good fixed source for everyone. I think fluidity is a better way to look at religious beliefs. Take the good and leave the bad behind. ACIM will provide some good.  

Hawkeye:

I agree with a lot of what you say. Interesting that you brought up Jim Jones. Look what happens when you google Mkultra and Jim Jones at the same time. 15,700 responses.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22jim+jones%22+%22mkultra%22&aq=f&oq=

http://www.whale.to/b/jonestown1.html

You get only 16,000 hits when you do A course in miracles and MK ultra.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22a+course+in+miracles%22+%22mkultra%22&btnG=Search

I looked at the web site. It seams to be inexpensive. I wonder if the channeling itself came from Jesus as she thought, or from a helper of a differant source. With Jesus being used in an effort to make it more palatable to her as she had a belief in God. I have received a number of messages throughout this life but I have never though they came from Jesus. Could that be because of my lack of belief in organised religions? I have had religious experiences. I have always felt the messages come something more, just not Jesus.

Whatever the source is, it claimed to be Christ.

Perhaps there wasn't a source other than Helen and/or William Tetford's mind.

I've gone through a lot of energetic work, and it isn't that easy to receive word after word after word. I can have all kinds of experiences while with spirit guidance, but can receive only a limited number of words. I believe light beings communicate in a way that doesn't involve words as people use them. Consider the ROTE principle.

R said:
Below are some of the reasons I don't believe A Course in Miracles is a good source to rely on.
and I accept your humble opinion and offer my own.
R:
In the spirit of being able to believe as we like, please feel free to disagree with the points I made.
deal.
R:
1. The course says that this World wasn't created by God, because everything God creates is perfect.
This means that God is saying we believe we have to have wars and acts of aggression in this world due to various belief systems we carry which say we are not one, but many, in a sense of being separated from God. Being, or believing we are separate from God is an illusion, but seeing as we have a body, the body itself seems divorced from God. In our true homes, we will not have a body, unless we create form around ourselves. This is where you are having a hard time, to consider, you are not your body. it is a vehicle of your consciousness. don't feel bad. everybody has a problem seeing that the body is pretty much useless after you're dead. and I might add, religion is useless, unless you're in a religious belief system territory; religion is just another belief system as well.

R:
 This can lead people to believe that the World is separate from God.
my opinion is that this world was created by us; joined as one vast cloud of beings, all as one. We were the spirit that moved upon the water..we created the world. At home in the heavens, we were on a scouting and probing mission. and here we are, still scouting, still probing the world. Home, utimately, is a place we cannot imagine, because we have deliberately forgotten, in order to be in a body with very little awareness of our beginnings. that's what we do here is explore our consciousness, and religion is one way of exploring those concepts. ACIM is not a religion, so much as it is explaining how insane we really are. Tell me that this world is not insane, and I will have to disagree with you.

R.
It also leads to the assumption that something other than God exists, because it contends that something other than God created this World.
actually, ACIM says the opposite of what you just said. It says the ego thinks it's real, when the body, which belongs to the ego, is unreal, unlike God, as God has no body and God is Love, and so God has no separate ego. the ego is defined as a thought system which chooses to be special, set apart, it worships only it's own tenements and feels separate and unloved by others, it desires power over love. the Course is saying choose either fear thoughts or choose love thoughts, but you cannot ultimately serve both love and fear at the same time.
R:
2. Related to number one, when you look at the big picture, despite the problems that can be found within this World, the World isn't imperfect. It is just that we have to go through some growing pains.
The course helped me with those growing pains to ask me what I was believing about myself, and to ask whether what I was believing was true. It helps you to examine your own nature, then you can see we are basically making up our world to be what it is. It forces the issue towards taking self responsibility for what you percieve out there. It undoes the error of the separation belief of the ego. think about the ego, how it must always have more, better, is never satisfied and there is no end to this way of thinking. the ego is usually trying to prove there is no good will come with the rising sun, only bad. With taking responsibility for you feel, for what causes trouble in our lives, each one ceases to blame outer circumstance and other people. This frees the mind to become a positive influence while we yet remain in the body.
R
Unfortunately, it seems like we're going through more than we need to go through. This doesn't mean that God created something imperfect. It just means that as a part of his plan he provided us with free will.
this part u got right. yet many would dispute we have free will, because we are in bodies, and the contrast of not being in a body is great on the spirit side of things. However, we can choose between a fear thought and a love thought and that is practicing what we wish to believe while creating that, and to do this consistently is difficult, but doable.
R
3. The course speaks of how nothing you see is real; therefore, you don't have to be concerned about the troubles in the World.
this is the way you interpret it. it is not my own interpretation. you need to see your mind as what it perceives firstly, and then the action of your mind to interpret follows.
The Course teaches true versus false perception. It teaches you love is real, although your ego does not see it this way, that love is real.
R:
It is true that what we go through isn't permanent and doesn't represent the ultimate end, but while people and other forms of life live in this World their life is real, therefore, they do indeed suffer.
This is another interpretation from your side. The Course is aware people suffer and they can change their minds about that suffering, with a study of their internal mind system, and how we can attach emotionally to our own belief systems. this attachment is the mark of a closed in mind, as well a closed up heart. Exploration of all thoughts and belief systems, all emotions, is a good place to start to alleviate suffering.
R: Also, the story of this World doesn't come to an end until we bring it to an end in a hopefully positive way.
yes hopefully, positive. thats my hope too. and the Course does not talk about the end of the world. It mentions that we wait for God to take the final step for us. that's all. and we continue to daily choose over love or fear. The Course makes one a happy camper here. life becomes enjoyable and learning continues, but in a smoother more efficient manner than before. also people notice there's something different about you, and they want to be around you. it's because you don't have so many negative fear thoughts anymore, it's the undoing of the ego thought system.
R:
4. The course places too much of an emphasis on the ego. To an extent where a person might end up creating an ego like aspect of mind that is beyond what they already have.
Thats a concern of yours personally. I understand you to mention this before. I think you understandably fear the ego getting out of control. It won't do that, because of the love you feel, keeps it humble. love is a very humbling feeling when it comes from spirit. You somehow understand that God is not that far away, when you remember that you are one with God, but thought you were lost.

R:
We do exist as individual Souls, and even when we become aware of the oneness again our individuality doesn't go away.
if it's important to be an individual, you can be what you want with your free will. But if you want to merge with God and rest for an eternity, and never become individualized in ELS, that is also a choice granted after all lessons are learned. yet I think you are thinking beyond the Course here. It's message is simple, there are many questions if will not try to answer, as we haven't even got the basics down yet. that everything is a belief system here. Forgiveness, the lesson of learning that, is to pave the way for a grace to enter the soul, that makes the way smoother until God takes the final step. Part of the ego's job is to forever and ever ask questions, but never to be satisfied with any answer. We have all sorts of spiritual pathways, we utilize them in our respective growth. but they will change and that is normal.
R
The bodies we make use of include a self-defense instinct. If we give this instinct more credit than it deserves by creating an ego like aspect of mind, we give our self-defense instinct too much power.
u must remember we can only speak for ourselves. you are speaking what you feel is a truth, that u r expressing once more, a fear thought. you are afraid your self defensive mechanism will get out of control. as you are aware you have this fear, you will certainly not allow your self defen[color=#0000ff]se mechanism get out of control.[/color]
R:
If we place too much emphasis on trying to see that we aren't here, we lose track of the goal of developing ourselves as much as possible.
this is another personal interpretation. Seeing what's real and what's unreal is a phase to go through. nothing bad happens. all u do is see that it is you who places meaning on everything in your life, including the objects which surround us, appearing as if everything is "out there." What the course says is your internal world is within you. not out there. then u can get the idea nobody is out to get you. you can see it's not a dog eat dog world. it never was. you were believing something false.
R
It is very possible that when our bodies pass away and we leave this World, the self-defense instinct we make use of will be left behind with our bodies.
you are perceiving your first chakra, the self defense mechanism, as you call it, to be something separate from your thoughts. like it's something you wish you could just throw away someday. yes you will leave it and it won't be important, but it's not separate from your belief systems. you have to figure out why you dislike the activity in this first chakra. its a basic energy. It can be surmounted, so that you never have to feel manipulated by that energy there. People change all the time. It means working more consistently with the heart chakra.
R:
Therefore, we don't have to overcome our egos in the way ACIM suggests.  It will be more of a matter of looking at the psychological issues and beliefs that prevent us from moving forward towards the light.
again, it's your way of putting words together, to say overcome the ego. The Course is saying ask the HS for the undoing of the ego, but it says nothing of fighting to overcome the ego. It is asking you have faith that you can see the truth of yourself as love. you're right, it is all psychology and self discovery.
R:
5. ACIM states things such as we are afraid of God, we have guilt because we separated from him, and that we "hate" God. There is actually a statement within the course that says we hate God.
heres where u got that idea: The course does say some radical things granted. but if you sit and think about it, I have seen some pretty vicious people in the world, and in a sense, if they don't believe they have anyone to answer for, they will continue to enact pain and suffering on others, feeling separated from love. In this sense, they are attacking "the thought of God." another definition for the nonreligiously inclined is the word God came from the word Good. There is a part in each one of us who might be capable of murderous thoughts. I know I was in another life, and in this one, I can still have unjustified anger but I can check it now before it gets out of hand. Others don't. they just let their feelings make them react to circumstances where it appears they are not getting what they want. It's all about true knowledge versus overreacting to one's own selfish agendas, and not being able to tell the difference.
R:
 Regarding guilt, why should we feel guilty about taking part in a growth process that is a part of the divine plan?
We feel, from the ego standpoint, because of our respective sufferings, and all of us do have our measure of suffering, whether it's a disease on the body, or watching someone die hard and feeling helpless about helping them, we get to feeling guilt over the knowledge we do not have, and the basis for this guilt is we feel we will be punished by God. So we punish ourselves first, in some cases. u have to remember, we have various degrees of insanity on this planet, due to selfish self interests. In the growing oneness concept, which ACIM is monistic, we begin to cooperate within the service ideals, where my interests would not be different from yours and so we would harmony coming about then.
R:
How are we supposed to learn what existence is about and develop uniqueness and capabilities, if we don't go through some sort of growth process?
more interpreting for you and me. developing uniqueness is not a be all, end all, within this thought system. More so than that concept is to be yourself, where you are expressing this love that you are more and more consistently, in order to see it materialize as your truth, and it has to do with the Oneness is more important than standing out heads above the others, as to be worshiping self. Others become more important than the self. In ACIM then, it's not about growth, it's about undoing what the ego believes, that perhaps it has believed since childhood, for instance, I believed I was not lovable person. Then what I believed came to pass to show me those perceptions. It is only after examining my beliefs, with the HS, that I saw I had been told an untruth and now I had the power to change my mind because ACIM said I could "choose again."
R:
6. The course relies on affirmations too much. Spiritual growth doesn't take place by making a bunch of affirmations.
this is your resistance speaking, to the Course. if you think about it, everyone has an affirmation, even your parents must have thrown an affirmation at you. Affirmations will only point to the truth, like a road sign, it is not the actual destination. Meditation on the affirmation is the only thing that yields up the entire rote.
R:
It comes by letting go of limitations.
here u have made your own affirmation and offer it to us. we have a choice that it's that easy. just let go of limitations and life is smooth. I would say you have a great deal of will power. Not everybody is like you. we all are different. It is not so easy to let go of a limiting belief system without a spiritual tool or two, such as many pathways will provide, not just ACIM.

I'm amazed you spend so much time here pooing on the Course. you are really expressing a great fear here. If your head was in a good place, I should think you'd be off doing something more pleasant? I can only say I'm trying to shed some light on the subject, due to I know you suffer with this. but in the end your need is more than my gift of delivery, and I will need to back off.
______
R: If one takes a path that involves making a bunch of affirmations, one will end up encasing one's self in a belief system.
I want you to reread this post, as EVERYTHING is a belief system. We are in one or another so long as we are in ELS, which is a belief system planet.
R:
This is true regardless of how positive the ingredients of a belief system seem to be.
you can also follow a negative belief system right to the manifestation of the negative outcome. it's your free will again to believe in what you want. but think it over carefully, as you may get what you think you want, and then you can change your mind, deciding it's not what you want after all. So meditate and ask yourself what you want, but the ego going here frequently is aimless without a consistent belief in love, or god.
R: The fact of this can be seen when one becomes defensive when one's belief system is questioned.
well dearie, if you're talking about me, I'm not defensive so much as I feel like you're in deep trouble and not letting me offer any consolation. if you're still angry that I kicked you out of my inbox one time, you had not right to say the things you did to me. it was highly disrespectful to ask someone to pray to god as they are on the wrong path. its none of your business what path I'm on.you stepped over the boundary line. you have 0 empathy for others.
RL True knowledge doesn't need to be defended. True knowledge doesn't need to express it self through the words of a course.
your intellect is lightweight. If you had true knowledge we would not be in this conversation. and as well, I see I am being judged for defending myself. obviously, you are greatly competitive in your nature. you see yourself as powerful and that none should question u when u speak. this is the ego, and yours is out of control, but you can change if you want. I'm willing to bet nobody stands up to you much. hello, I'm calling your bluff because nobody else will.
R:
7. The course has many words yet there are things it doesn't talk about one would think a course from Christ would talk about.
I think the subject of our being love essence is quite enough to talk about.
R:
One way in which people try to brainwash people, is by having a person read basically the same thing over and over again.
your fears of being brainwashed stem from having been a part of a cult. since this wasn't my experience, I don't have much to say about it, except I'm said it happened to you. However, if I can have been molested and maltreated in my life and still get over it, so that it is no longer even something to think about, I don't see why you can't get over having been brainwashed in your cult.
R:
If you get them to read it enough, chances are they will take on a belief system they will be afraid to question.
again, is this your experience? With the course, we are asked to consider our fears, and choose once again, it does not say you won't have questions. it says the ego never ceases to question as ego wishes to have and maintain control over what it wants, and it does not care usually what another wants.
R:
When I read the course for a while I could tell that it has a brainwashing effect. In the past I've posted an article where course teacher Hugh Prather spoke about how most of the course members he met years after they started the course were very narrow minded.
____
I do not see it that way. I consider myself one pointed, not narrow minded. and Course students are just people like the rest of the world. they use the course to help them think, they are not brainwashed, as it's not like the course is binding you to read it, it's a choice to read it and attempt to figure it out without jumping to false conclusions. however the HS helped me read it. it takes a long time to understand it. other pathways will suffice to teach love and forgiveness. you must find your own pathway, as life is about choosing for yourself.
R:
8. If the course doesn't actually come from Christ, then to the extent it disagrees with the truth Christ represents, it will mislead a person.
to my perspective it does not disagree with the truth that Christ represents. it does not mislead, if it is asking you to choose between love and fear thoughts, and to learn what forgiveness is about, and to have faith that God will take the final step for you, if you trust that it what will happen, and always listen to the small still voice inside you; it is the HS, it's in all of us, it is love. When Christ left, he left the voice for god here, the HS is that voice, and you can hear it, it speak of love and he did show us how death is nothing. He is still here, and he loves you, and is trying to reach you so that your faith can grow and your suffering stop. blessings, have a good one!

Thank you for the input Alysia.

R said:
6. The course relies on affirmations too much. Spiritual growth doesn't take place by making a bunch of affirmations. It comes by letting go of limitations. If one takes a path that involves making a bunch of affirmations, one will end up encasing one's self in a belief system. This is true regardless of how positive the ingredients of a belief system seem to be. The fact of this can be seen when one becomes defensive when one's belief system is questioned. True knowledge doesn't need to be defended. True knowledge doesn't need to express it self through the words of a course.

----------

The above comment has nothing to do with ACIM. To me, it appears to be a blanket statement that is not true. Affirmations, in my estimation, can be extremely helpful, especially when absorbed under ideal circumstances.

The mind automatically sifts through what is true and untrue -- personal experience is underrated. It is a process. Are you really worried about people being misled? It is a comfort to me to know that there is a greater source of love which knows what we need and when we need it. Without trust, the lesson is lost.

Well, this subject isn't that important to me. Not really. But maybe it is to some. Always a possibility.

I found the below forum discussion today.  I find it interesting that people were allowed to express different opinions about ACIM, without being accused of being unloving, negative, and having a big ego.  Perhaps some people figure that people won't use the internet if they don't want to hear about differing opinions.

As I found, and as Justin from this forum found, some people on the below forum found that the course has a wierd psychological effect. The course caused me to click out in an unpleasant way. The same thing happened for Justin. The only other source that has had this effect on me, was another supposedly channeled source that also overemphasized the ego way too much.

Some of the participants on the below forum have also found that the course can cause people to be indifferent to the World.  This is the same effect Advaita Vedanta can have.  Ramana Maharshi's name is mentioned on the below forum. I used to be really into his teachings. Everytime a person would ask Ramana about the problems of the World, Ramana would basically answer that the World is nothing but a dream, so it doesn't matter.  Say that to a little girl who his forced into prostitution. Say that to a lady who lives in fear because her husband beats her. Say that to the millions of refugees in this World. Say that to the many people who suffer, partly because of the indiference of others. Would Christ provide teachings that lead to indifference?



http://forum.noblerealms.org/viewtopic.php?id=3280&p=2

Let's assume that ACIM was authored by Jesus.  That raises the obvious question....why would Jesus choose to channel his teachings via Helen Schucman rather than simply reappearing in our midst as He did 2000 years ago?

ACIM is a ponderous tome, difficult to read.  Not only that, its tone changes- sometimes it is loving and gentle, other times it is critical and even hectoring almost as if "Jesus" is having a bad hair day.

Surely the real Jesus would know, in advance, that there would be enormous controversy about ACIM's authenticity!  

And by the way, why did Jesus change the very essence of His teachings from 2000 years ago? Why did sin change from something that we needed to avoid to something that is now just an illusion that doesn't even exist??

In the Bible, Jesus tells us we are accountable for the sins we commit.  But in ACIM, He tells us there is no such thing as guilt because there is no such thing as wrongdoing.

So.....either Jesus changed His mind on some very fundamental things, or there is some other explanation.

R

Rondelle:

Regarding sin, I believe it was more of a as you sow so you reap thing. If you live your life in a negative way, there's a good chance you'll end up in a lower realm after you die. You might even make an energetic connection to unfriendly beings during this lifetime. One would think that with all the words the course contains, Jesus would've said at least a little about the as you sow so you reap principle, rather than basically saying the same few things repeatedly.

It's clear as day that ACIM's agenda is to remove personal accountability from our actions.  That's so obvious and stated so often that it's really not open to debate.

The real question is why?  Well, if no one is guilty of doing anything wrong, it pretty much leaves our options wide open.  Taken to its extreme, society can fall into anarchy because there really is no point in having a right and wrong framework within which to live.  

Didn't Monroe also no believe in the attachment to right and wrong?

I also rarely hear words while exploring, giving and receiving information from "other" sources. Most times it is through pictures, emotion, sights. Not that some words have not been present, but rarely.

Hawkeye:

Here are some of the reasons for which I believe a lot of words aren't received:

1. Spirit beings don't have vocal chords and minds that are limited by a brain, therefore, they aren't able to create sound in the way we create sound, and they aren't limited to one thought at a time communication.

2. Aspects of our mind are more likely to get involved when thoughts are sent, than when symbolic visual messages and experiences such as short waking dreams and OBEs are used to communicate. In fact, I've found that aspects of my mind can interfere with thought messages, but they don't intefere with other means of communication.

3. When it comes to receiving and understanding spiritual messages it is important that our heart and intuition gets involved, and methods of communication other than receiving thoughts in a linear way help develop our ability to listen to our heart and intuition, more than receiving thoughts in a linear way does so.

4. Experience has more of an impact than receiving thoughts.

5. Perhaps, so we'll question sources which claim to receive thought after thought after thought. As I said, I've found that it isn't that easy to do so.

rondele wrote on Oct 8^th, 2008 at 5:23pm:

It's clear as day that ACIM's agenda is to remove personal accountability from our actions.

Hello,

In my experience and  understanding, ACIM is the opposite of this.  It is more about helping one recognize the difference between ego and spirit, and learning to choose between them, between separation and oneness. That is a moment to moment thing, not an in-the-future thing. The lessons are to help one experience this rather than just reading theory. It is written on different levels, as I think the Bible is also. Sometimes in the same sentence it will address the ego and then the spirit, so yes, it can be confusing. As with any teaching, students interpret and act in different ways, so don't judge it by others interpretations. ACIM says that it is just one way to return to God, so if it doesn't speak to you as a path to take, that's fine, don't worry about it. It may work for others, but not for you, and visa versa, what works for you may not be for someone else. That's ok. Actually, ACIM says we never left God, that would be impossible, we just think we did, invented an ego and made up this world of differences and separation, to support that idea. It was just a brief thought, which is over and corrected, but we keep deciding to experience the separation idea over and over again. That is why we are personally accountable, because we keep choosing this. We tend to think NOT doing this is scary, because without it we would not be egos. We think we are our egos, but we are not. The miracle is, when we remember we are choosing this, we don't know what it really means, and we ask the Holy Spirit to help us choose differently. It's a moment to moment thing. At least, that's the way I see it. I am not trying to defend ACIM over any other spiritual beliefs, because all are valid, and all can be interpreted and experienced in different ways. I just wanted to share my understanding.

Love,
Carolyn

Does the word "cult" apply to something that actually exists, or should the word be taken out of the dictionary?

Why do people talk of getting stuck in belief system realms, if all beliefs are valid?

Why do people speak of patterns of mind that limit people, when all ways of thinking are valid?

Why does the word "discrimination" appear in the dictionary, if there is no need to make use of what is referred to by the word?

Hi Carolyn I had forgotten you told me once you would look at ACIM. you have a great understanding of it. thanks for you post, great to see you back on board again.

it's interesting about the choose again thing in ACIM. a friend and I are discussing how you can tell between the ego voice and the HS.
it's not easy exactly, but in general, the ego always speaks first. as it wants to feel in control of things. the HS speaks 2nd.
just speaking personally, to share. the ego also will try to get the last word. uhmm. that's probably me.

after working with the material's principles it's easy to tell when the HS is speaking, because it's quieter, softer, never forceful and sometimes it comes as a question rather than an answer right off the top.
then the question, if meditated on yields up it's tail end, the answer, as the question and answer are like one thing in truth.

basically, if you create peace within your own self, this increases the momentum in outer circumstances for a peaceful world, as the numbers of persons choose for the peace idea, by working on their own reactionary stances.
the basis of ACIM is not to make one into a loafer but to help us realize we are not helpless, but the issue rests with the individual, rather outside on all the rest of those people who are doing wrong.

it depends where you focus your thoughts, your mind. If you're looking for dirt, well, that's what this world is made up of, you will find the mind's perceptions will follow your leading beliefs about the world.

seek and you will find is the real message. negative are easy to find. finding the positives is just a tad harder, but once you do, you become a light worker eventually. meaning, you believe in love.

love is the real miracle in ACIM.

that we can create those circumstances in the world by a shift in our thinking first. a focus in the right direction. but it's work, no doubt about it,  no one said living a life was easy.

ACIM will say you will find the message of love and self responsibility in many pathways, but somewhere, someday, somehow, we will all return to love, each in their own time and place.
as well Rondelle, I would assume JC does not mind contradictions to occur as concerning ACIM, as look what happened when he was here in the flesh.
wasn't too nice was it? the ego is vicious. there is no doubt in my mind that the ego is not our true and eternal natures.

It's time, no matter what path you arrive on, it's time to take charge of our own selves by focusing on solutions more than problems which keep us eternally debating the problem itself.
that means we need to realize that we go not alone here. there is a voice we can listen to for guidance. whether it's our oversoul, or we call it guides, or helpers, or Atman, or Holy spirit, it doesn't matter, something is willing to help in the least expected places it can appear, and through any means whatsoever, as varied as our personal experiences are.

we are healing the separation in this time, some quite fast, some quite slow, but it is occurring for those who have eyes to see.

recoverer wrote on Oct 9^th, 2008 at 4:05pm:

Does the word "cult" apply to something that actually exists, or should the word be taken out of the dictionary? Why do people talk of getting stuck in belief system realms, if all beliefs are valid? Why do people speak of patterns of mind that limit people, when all ways of thinking are valid? Why does the word "discrimination" appear in the dictionary, if there is no need to make use of what is referred to by the word?

first cuddly one, I thought that your post regarding your night in heaven was brilliant. wish you would write it again and again for us here, at least once a week.

not only was it slightly different this time, the description but you mentioned how in another experience you realized that time and space are not the true reality. this is supportive of ACIM, which says time is an illusion, and we think we are here in bodies when we are safe at home. I wonder if anyone relates..have you ever felt like you weren't here? that you were  a million dreamy miles away?

I think that describes an accurate yearning to awaken from a dream and be our true selves once more, free to express love, rather than, no no no! I'm different than you! or separate.

everybody wants to be somebody. what about us that don't want be anybody?  ::)

because precisely. we are not bodies. in that limited sense.

what's all this about words and dictionaries stuff? I think you just wanted to continue this thread R, and you know how to egg me on don't you? proud of yourself?  :D

take care fidgety one. you are to find all mysteries soon.

My idea of a cult includes the Catholic Church. I think Catholicism promotes many cult-like attributes.

Here's an example:

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2008/10/13/bid_to_canonize_girl_draws_mixed_reaction/?page=full

Now, I personally don't care if people found hope and inspriation in Audrey's presence. I do believe them when they say they did. I don't think cults are necessarily bad. It is just too bad that these people were not ready to understand that they created those signs by their beliefs. It is something that must happen on a subconcious level because it is so difficult to learn to conciously be part of it.

But I don't think ACIM is any stranger than the Catholic Church is.

recoverer wrote on Oct 9^th, 2008 at 4:05pm:

Does the word "cult" apply to something that actually exists, or should the word be taken out of the dictionary? Why do people talk of getting stuck in belief system realms, if all beliefs are valid? Why do people speak of patterns of mind that limit people, when all ways of thinking are valid? Why does the word "discrimination" appear in the dictionary, if there is no need to make use of what is referred to by the word?

Hi Albert,

Thanks for starting this thread here. I haven’t read ACIM so I can’t comment on it specifically. I do have some thoughts in regards to some of the things mentioned.

According to Webster a cult is a formally organized religion that has devotees. This definition seems to include any and all religions.

All beliefs are valid because all can be defended or justified in one way or another. Truth is subjective and depends on the person’s interpretation.

For example yesterday our family went to a pumpkin patch to spend the day. My granddaughter lost her mother’s camera. My daughter said, “Someone will turn it in.” And that was all she said about it. Her “truth” is that everyone is basically honest and will act in an appropriate manner. Someone else may have gotten upset, perhaps scolding/punishing the child, making a big issue out of it because his or her “truth” is that most people are dishonest and act accordingly.

There is always more than one way to observe something and this is what makes truth relative. btw the camera was turned in just as she believed it would be, thus validating her truth to her as well as to those of us who share the same perspective. Even if the camera had not been turned in, this would not have been enough to change the pattern of her deeper belief that most people are honest. We can only use our discernment according to our own personal beliefs and attitudes.

It’s pretty clear that Alysia views ACIM differently than you do. Each of you has your own truth and both differing truths are valid because of your own experiences and the meaning each of you has given to those experiences. The key here is to respect the other’s perspective rather than trying to convince a person to believe, as you believe. Certainly you can share your perspectives as you’ve done in this thread, which seems to have turned into an interesting conversation.

Kathy

Quote:

Does the word "cult" apply to something that actually exists, or should the word be taken out of the dictionary? Why do people talk of getting stuck in belief system realms, if all beliefs are valid? Why do people speak of patterns of mind that limit people, when all ways of thinking are valid? Why does the word "discrimination" appear in the dictionary, if there is no need to make use of what is referred to by the word?

Hi recoverer,

Good food for thought in the above....

As in:
One could also use "discrimination" in the use of their dictionary.

The word "cult" once simply meant sect, branch, group - referring to any particular type of belief system, often a subgroup of a larger body. The negative connotation of the word is a relatively recent development that comes from the demonizing of non-traditional belief systems by individuals and institutions that represent more dominant and/or traditional beliefs. It seems that the individuals, groups, or institutions who are making these negative claims and assertions are deliberately doing so often with the intention of establishing or maintaining their own superiority by the denigration and vilification of those who are targeted as being inferior or wrong by comparison.  

Regarding this contemporary and now fully accepted negative connotation of the definition - any open minded person who observes our society with a modicum of neutrality could easily come to the conclusion that many aspects of our culture in which people relate as a group of any size for any common purpose, could legitimately be defined as a cult, when compared to others who do not have the same values, beliefs, goals, or purpose. Here I am talking about sports, entertainment, pets, finance, food, wine, model trains, golf, etc., etc., and yes of course religion. Is there any group that doesn't appear "wierd", "harmful", "destructive", "distorting" by any number of negative associations based on attributions of cohesion, obsession, diversion from convention and "normality" - especially disparity from the values of the one making the observation and comparison? I may suggest that a very easy way to explore this proposal would be to go to a large bookstore, where even the casual perusal of a large selection of magazines on different subjects will reveal the shocking level of "cultism" in our modern world. You might be amazed at what qualifies as a "cult", even by the strict dictionary definition. Surely this website would also be one of them by someone's interpretation of the standard definition. (Do some people really need to talk about the "afterlife" every day of the week? What kind of obsessive "death-fear" cult is this anyway? Sounds "fanatical" to me....lol)


The dictionary houses many words.
Like life, it is a universe of possibility in which options are presented that have different meanings for different contexts according to individual necessity. The words "bigotry", "fanatic", "intolerance", "fundamentalism", "pride", "negativity", "exclusive", "superiority", and "projection" also appear in the dictionary, but the dictionary itself, according to its intended purpose, neither exacts nor implies any mandate for a particular attitude or orientation in how words are retreived and used -- therefore it would be quite arbitrary "should the word be taken out".

If people open the dictionary to the same few words over and over again according to their particular wants or needs, this would be indicative of some choice making as a function of their personal preference (including the attempted validation of a prejudice), rather than any inherently authoritative power of the dictionary to confer validation to those preferences, even if it does give accepted definitions of the words in question.

Believe it or not, "patterns of mind that limit people" are also valid, even if ACIM and other paths define them as illusion, as they may, and do represent passages that are used temporarily as stepping-stones by human beings - including the more subtle issue of: what was once an expedient may now be a hinderance. We can see this everywhere, even in ourselves - so we don't have to look far or to others to see it. It could even be said that the majority of human life is often represented by this general construct and it could further be seen that the very fact that it is allowed and patiently, compassionately supported and transformed through evolution shows that even so-called negative unproductive thought and behavior, which is quite relatively and subjectively defined in the spiritual sense, is available as a free will choice for individuated beings as possibility, even if these have so-called negative consequences.

Getting "stuck" in belief systems and BST's (whether in physical or non-physical) is something that happens when people mistake the belief system - a mere expedient - for the intended goal itself and/or persist in that attachment even when obsolete or inappropriate, which is according to free will choice - a possibility. This tendency for attachment is not inherent in the specific vehicle itself, but is a function of the intention and subsequent identification with any consciousness toward the fulfillment of the intention. If someone is "stuck", it is because they simply have not chosen the means appropriate to the intention (and there can be many), have not the willingness to enact it, or they have not formulated the appropriate intention according to the situation. It is not the "fault" of any vehicle. It is simply a failure of the individual to assess the situation, to formulate an intention, to select a means of fulfillment, to carry out implementation of the chosen means - any or all in varying degrees are reasons for people getting stuck. This has nothing to do with ACIM.

So in getting back to the original intention of the thread and responding to the above:  to use the dictionary as a means to demonize ACIM as a cult seems to be ineffective, since the impetus for this approach appears to be the result of a personal prejudice, rather than any quality intrinsic to dictionaries or words contained within, in "proving" the falsity (or truth for that matter) of ACIM. It might be true however that ACIM, like a dictionary, is a tool, a vehicle, an expedient for the ordering of life towards the desired fulfillment of some intention according to someone's personal choice to use it. People use the book and its contents. The book is not using, controlling, or manipulating people. People identify with the consciousness they subjectively recognize as having some meaning or utility for their intention. Everyone makes their own choice from limitless possibility at every moment - just like using a dictionary.


- u


PS, as a side note: I have not read ACIM, but I have known a few people who have, including some who
I would regard as fairly genuine seekers of Truth/God (including some here), who have reported that it was significant and helpful in their search or practice. Without personally investigating it, I cannot make a direct comment on it, but I do regard as significant the testimony of others who exhibit a certain level of integrity and authenticity according to my observation of their life or written expression.

Thank you for the continued input.

thanks Kathy for the example. Well thought out article Ultra. good summation.

I think that being physical human beings here we enter Earth Life system which is a system of duality. and it is a system of having beliefs, or being attached to beliefs is a misnomer, because everybody has to have some sort of paradigm here, it's inescapable to consider  "being" without believing in something. has to do with our free will.
we even have in political terms the right to free speech, and that also can be a spiritual aspiration.

I like what Ultra says about ACIM, or any path of belief, self chosen, as a tool. or something that expedients growth, or mind expansion, a given direction to go in, and then he says it's like only a step in that person's pattern of growth. I found that to be so true, and all the more reason to be unattached emotionally to our respective pathways we have chosen, because everything passes towards our becoming more than we thought we were yesterday.

I found when I was finished with the material I came to some instruction within it that said "forget this book." Go and seek an experience.

I had become attached to it emotionally and so did not want to take this instruction at first. Yet as I thought about it, it was a good instruction point, to forget it and seek that experience.
In my mind, I was thinking it meant I had to actually practice the principles, to test them for authenticity, as a genuine experience, rather than surface acceptance and that kind of intellectualizing, as if I had all the answers.
I did not know anything really, I simply had a tool, what I call a road sign pointed at a fork in the road, and I chose now, which road to go down, to see if it was true, if I implemented some of what I'd learned, could be true, then again might not be. It means you take a risk and choose.

One of my wonderings at the time was whether a benevolent universe existed, or was it, as I'd been taught a dog eat dog world, and I also believed in Murphys law. that whatever could go wrong will certainly go wrong.

I am not trying to persuade anyone to read ACIM, as part of ACIM's teachings is that everyone has their own individual choice what to do, what to read, etc. it is the nature of a diverse world of diverse people.

I would like to share some few experiences of a personal nature which seem funny, or loving, or added meaning to my life in some way, and directly happened due to my foundational ACIM studies.

before I get off track with the avalanche of words which come in, each with their own secular meanings, I did discover  a benevolent universe operating, through relationships. ACIM had told me that relationships are important. as what else is there? I discovered I needed people, as what else am I going to relate to if not people?

yet also my own life experiences showed me how people pass in and out of our lives, one minute they are here the next they are gone and u can't help but wonder if the love they shared with you has also gone with them. I discovered, with ACIM, that the love is still there, in you, it had never gone away with their physical body, but was stored in the soul somewhere, even like a tool, it could be remembered and then was born gratitude for the hard times as well taking the good along with the not so good. then Monroe comes along with his "there is nothing good, there is nothing bad."
all just is life being.  this explains nonjudgmentalism. this explains the acceptance of love, is there, even if we do not perceive it to our expectations. just because you turn on a fan, and the blades are spinning so fast you cannot define their edges, does not necessarily mean the blades have disappeared and are just not there.

thank u Ultra, for showing me there certainly is life after ACIM, or putting that into well chosen words. as I know in the end, there is so much more in heaven and earth than we can possibly imagine.

and those are not even my words. the first step to wisdom is to say I do not know the thing that I am, or what this relationship is for.
to admit you don't know. that will help us all to learn what truth is and maybe someday we will all entertain the possibility, that it is a benevolent universe after all.

 I'm not interested in talking about ACIM anymore.  Most here already know I feel about it, and yeah it would be redundant.  

 But I do want to address this, Recoverer wrote,
Quote:

1. The course says that this World wasn't created by God, because everything God creates is perfect.  This can lead people to believe that the World is separate from God. It also leads to the assumption that something other than God exists, because it contends that something other than God created this World.

 This is my understanding of the question or situation.   In the "beginning" was pure Source Consciousness, all by Itself.  It moved within Itself, and created various different aspects of itself with a sense of independence (freewill) from the Whole, yet always One with same in essence (in a sense, smaller circles ever within the largest circle).  

 The hope of Source was that It's Children would choose out of their own volition to become both Companions and Co-Creators with It, and to set up this situation the "opposite" of Sourceness had to be a possibility, not that Source itself "created" the opposite of its nature, but allowed the possible awareness to arise.  

One Spark, did remerge with Source before any other Spark did, and it became the first full and fully Conscious Co-Creator with Source.  

This particular Universe we find ourselves in, is the result of that harmonization/merging/Co-Creation.  

 But originally this Universe, and this Earth existed in a non physical type pattern.   Or in other words, it ALL was on a faster rate of vibration/frequency.  And because of that, it was much more fluid in nature, just as thought is completely fluid in nature.   It was thought, the thought Creation of one Shining Child delighting in working with its Father/Mother.

 The One who Co Created this World and this Universe, decided to get involved with it in a more personal way, along with many of It's other siblings.  

   Some of the Siblings though, decided to try to alter the pre-existing patterns, which seemed ok at first, but it increasingly led to less harmony, and to a desire of SELF creation, over Collective Self Creation.  

 In that, selfishness became known, and then Fear developed because of the ever growing sense of separation that these individuals and groups were feeling from the Whole and each other.  

   The ones involved with Earth, as they forgot more and more of their heritage, and as they further emphasized the little self more and more, their energies, and the energies of their "creations", became slower and slower in vibratory rate.  They became ever more "set" and stuck in nature.

 Eventually to the point where what we now know as "physical" came into existence.   The pattern for it was always there, but in a pure, harmonious, and completely connected manner originally.  

 What we now experience is the illusionary reflection of that original Creation of the Planning Intelligence/Christ working with Source, and it was not Source, nor really the P.I. who created this aspect.   They of course allowed it to come into temporal existence because of their respect of our freewill.  

Since the turning away, the P.I. has been working it's butt off to reorient it's Siblings back to the ways, consciousness, and Beingness of Source and Sourceness.  

 In order for It to do that, it had to become fully involved in the whole drama, and there was an element of risk, of chaos involved, for It knew that there was a possibility of It also losing its way once fully immersed in the cacophony/de harmonization of noise "here".  

 So now He, became subject to what some call reincarnation and the wheel of "life and death", and of temporary forgetfulness, of the limited perceptions of space/time.   But He held strong, more often than not, and lived many lives of helpfulness and service to His Siblings--ever growing back to that full Source Consciousness.    

 His peak, and zenith, saw a personality born, unlike any other seen yet in the Earth, the fastest vibrating human ever to be born, to whom physical death was no barrier, and He blazed the way fully and surely for others to follow.  He created such a powerful ripple in the Quantum field of reality and unreality, that it is now easier for us to achieve, re-remember, and re-become what He is now, and we were once (and really always were...).    

  So the World, IS illusionary, but only part of it, the part that is Temporal and which was created by us who have chosen to forget and fully live the ways of Source.    Eventually enough of us will get our act together, and the vibration of this World will raise enough and reach that peak momentum, and physical aspect and all the inharmony and distorted info, the false reflections that goes along with it, will fall away.

 While that aspect of this World is illusionary, it still serves a very useful purpose though!   It is still necessary at this point in our collective remembrance.  

 It is the very catalyst, along with its suffering nature, to help us want to re-awaken.  

So in the problem, lies the solution.   Beautiful isn't it?  I'm not particularly worried about the whole thing, I think things are more or less working out the right way, and yet to become overly passive in this life is not well either.   Stay positively active, and help the process along as much as we can.