I think, considering the topic "What is God" and "Quantum Physics and the soul", that we should wonder at first: What is the soul?

It is a very important question.

In fact, one of the reasons I was attracted by retrievals is not making a MAP of the afterlife, but the search for our true nature, DEFINING the soul.

I think God is the soul that has found how to BE.

If we would know the very nature of the soul: we could define "Black Stuff", the real nature of good and evil, the reason for our quest for PUL and happiness, stabilize PUL and happy-states, use our full mental/spiritual potential, un-root harmful beliefs or feelings of hurt in an easier way, etc...

Any clues are welcome.

Love,

Sonia

Hi Sonia,

I prefer to use consciousness as word for our immortal self.  

Let imagine a BIG, primordial consciousness.  Call it God.  There is just one big thing, itself.  It want to expand and find organization within itself.  It want to find the optimal configuration of its own soul.

The best way it initially found, is to divide itself in many part, to explore and try as many thing as possible to find his maximum synergy.  

When those parts began to organizes themselves enough, they use the same process (dividing), on many level.  It's God within god within god.  Each step made by its 'little' part, produce a step for the 'bigger' part.  

At some levels, those part create many worlds, or let say Labs or virtual realities, with many rules sets to experience new things, to learns, and to find the optimum configurations.  The rule is to allow free will to the lower part, so it don't interfere with the process.

We can say we are at the a very deep level of those parts.  By developing spiritually (increasing our consciouness quality, toward love), we help the greater part to do the same.  

Love is the expression of high quality of consciouness.  Fears is expression of a lesser quality.  Chaos in our mind bring fears.  The free will of each others allow us to choose the part we want.  Some choose the Good (toward love), some choose the Bad.

Member unknown wrote on Sep 5^th, 2008 at 9:01am:

I think, considering the topic "What is God" and "Quantum Physics and the soul", that we should wonder at first: What is the soul?If we would know the very nature of the soul: we could define "Black Stuff", the real nature of good and evil, the reason for our quest for PUL and happiness, stabilize PUL and happy-states, use our full mental/spiritual potential, un-root harmful beliefs or feelings of hurt in an easier way, etc... Any clues are welcome. Love, Sonia

Hi Sonia,

It sounds like you are on a journey.  One thing I learned today.  I went for a long walk by the water and it was very sunny and hot and I got blisters on my feet (new tennis shoes).  I felt like I had to keep walking and walking (it was a long walk) but I wanted to rest.  I was so tired and it was so hot out today.  The only place that felt good was in the shade of a tree.  I sat down and then a cool breeze came and it was very soothing.  Each time I got hot and tired on the way, I looked for the shade of the nearest tree.  I understand shade now.  I am grateful to have learned from this walk.  Very grateful.   :)

Wow Hope,

It sounds like that walk of yours was really wonderful. I love the simplicity of it.

For me, I keep having questions. Things are not simple and I keep being curious as to know: How can I learn (more/better) what I should be learning? You see. :D It drives me crazy sometimes.

But hey, I am happy to share all of my questioning state of minds, here. I so feel it fits in somewhere here.

Thank you, Hope, Phantasyman, for soothing my hunger for answers and understanding.

Much appreciation sent to you both,

Sonia  :)

Hey Sonia,


Quote:

How can I learn (more/better) what I should be learning? You see. Cheesy It drives me crazy sometimes.

I'm curious to know, what does 'learning' means for you?  Maybe I'll have some sign posts after your answer ;)

Sonia,

The soul is the eternal life energy that animates the body at conception and leaves it on death to returm to God who created it


Is is the mind , the conscious awareness, your unique personality. the thinking part of you that never ceases.

Love

Alan

Alan,

I very much like your definition of the Soul, so how would you define Spirit, please?

roger

Roger,

Many believe the soul is just another word for the spirit. I think the soul is animated by the energy that pervades the universe.

That is why a ghost or trapped souls who lack energy have to draw on this energy for us to become aware of their existence in this dimension. Temperature drops when a ghost is in the surrounding, and we feel cold, hair stands on end and we get Goosebumps.


The spirit on the other hand is the “God Part” of us Composite light without needing energy. God is light and in him is no darkness  and whatsoever.  God =Life God is a Spirit and, therfore. Spirit also=Life

We progress, hopefully toward that light in the afterlife, and like our physical mortal bodies we take off the soul in like manner and become one with God, within the Super-conscious that is the collective and consolidated of all ascended sentient beings maybe all sprit life

We become finally pure MIND able to create like God, of course on his terms Mind equated to SPIRIT.

The soul refers to an individual's identity in the context of eternity and God, while spirit refers first primarily to the nature of God and of everything created by God.

At the heart of everything spirit precedes substance. Thus it is only thourgh our spirit that can really commune with God, the Holy Spirit

Our spirits like God are thus infinite and eternal
" God said I knew you before the creation of the world"

In my opinion, The Spirit and Soul are separate things altogether.

The Spirit is life., while the soul is you that which think

The soul also the individual and the collective.. Your Soul is you. It's your consciousness, your personality. It's what makes you, you.

We need the Soul, however at it uses its spirit to connect with God and God exists in everything. He connects the Soul/Sspirit to everything else, to infinity.

This infinity is inexhaustible abundance. All matter exists as energy. This energy has the unlimited potential to take any form, and do anything. Energy cannot be created of destroyed, only used and changed

Thus our spirit has no form, and if we were able to see it we would observe our spirits as a "light point particle"

This energy is given shape by the Mind (GOD). Mind drives energy and gives it form. Thought is the vehicle that we use to interact with the limitless energy.  "The Word" of creation.

Thought or the soul is driven by desire, emotion. Everything exists as a desire, the desire to live, fight, work, sleep, even to not desire. This Emotion is what drives thought.  We create by the soul which is just another word for the Mind

Emotion is the fuel that energizes Thought and makes the pictures in the Mind powerful. These pictures, once charged with matching energy begin to shape the infinitely of energy that exists., into concrete matter

The soul refers to an individual's identity in the context of eternity and God, while spirit refers first primarily to the nature of God and of everything created by God. At the heart of everything Gods SPIRIT precedes substance and creation..

God , therefore has no form, but of course he can manifest form for specific reasons or events

In my opinion, The Spirit and Soul are separate things altogether.

The Spirit is life. The Native Americans called it "The one that flows through all." Kabbalists call it "Light" or sometimes "God". It's the creative force, the connecting force. That which makes everything "one". It's our link to abundance. It is related to Jung's Collective Unconscious but not quite the same. Spirit is the connection to the cosmos and all other beings.

Soul, on the other hand is us. It's the individual in the collective. Your Soul is you. It's your consciousness, your personality. It's what makes you, you.

The Soul is connected with Spirit. Spirit exists in everything. It connects the Soul to everything else God the Infinite, to infinity. This infinity is abundance. All matter exists as energy. This energy has the unlimited potential to take any form, and do anything.

Spirit connects us to this limitless energy. It is your spirit that connects you to God, the Great Spirit.

The universal energy is given shape (MATTER) by the Mind (GOD). Mind (GOD) drives energy and gives it form. Thought is the vehicle that we use to interact with the limitless energy. We must know what we want to do before we can do it.

Thought is driven by desire, emotion. Everything exists as a desire, the desire to live, fight, work, sleep, even to not desire. This Emotion is what drives thought. Emotion is the fuel that energizes Thought and makes the pictures in the Mind powerful. These pictures, once charged with matching energy begin to shape the infinityy of energy that exists.


The soul is the ethereal body of the spirit and it is not pure light like the spirit that is why there are dark soul entities and beings of the purest light.

I believe that the spirit and soul are somehow separate, the spirit animating the soul and the soul and spirit animating the physical body.

So the reality we call life originates from the spirit. The spirit in indestructible because it is our "God part" in finality of our existence.

However, God can destroy the soul, but as the Great Spirit or Father Spirit he can withdraw the “life or spirit ending the existence of the soul, or personality thinking part of a being”. (Hell??)

The life force (Our spirit)  then reverts back to God. Then  soul awareness is gone forever... The ultimate punishment if you like cessation of existence. (hell?)

This a difficult topic with many views around it with little real consensus.

The rest of us like moths to the LIGHT return to God after our protracted learning

I gave it me best shot, maybe others can elaborate further.

Heck what a lot of convoluted rambling, but  I hope there is some sense it it

Regards
Alan

Actually, I am much more looking for a scientific explanation of the soul, than a philosophical debate.

I think the soul is indeed a kind of energy. I think that energy's basic characteristic is "vibration".

To give an example: Good/high souls, vibrate differently than evil/low soul.

This vibration is what directs incarnation. For example: A man who tortured others during the Inquisition in Spain. He ends up in tortures/tortured-HELL. Then, when he incarnated, knowing nothing else but torture, he "contamins" his body with these vibrations and is borned with the illness "Multiple Sclerose", which will torture him for a life-time.

Good vibrations are faster, and therefore englobe all vibrations, even bad one's.
Bad vibrations are slower.

Did anyone here, hear about such things?

I seek a second opinion, really.

Sonia

Phantasyman,

YOU WROTE:
"I'm curious to know, what does 'learning' means for you?  Maybe I'll have some sign posts after your answer"

It is a very good question and one I was never asked.

The Longman Dictionary for learning, hereunder will serve as a basis for my explanation:

TO LEARN
1) to gain knowledge of a subject or skill, by experience, by studying it, or by being taught [ teach]: --> So I want to learn about PUL, the SOUL, etc....
2) find out [intransitive and transitive] formal: to find out information or news by hearing it from someone else or reading it [= discover]: --> I am trying to find out the closest thing to the truth concerning our real spiritual nature
3) remember [transitive]: to get to know something so well that you can easily remember it [= memorize]:
4) change your behaviour [intransitive and transitive] to gradually understand a situation and start behaving in the way that you should
learn (that) --> I am doing that as to not make the same mistakes again and avoid future mistakes. I define a mistake as a behavior or act that hurts somebody's feeling due to MY misconceptions.
5) somebody has learned their lesson used to say that someone will not do something wrong or stupid again, because they suffered as a result:
6) learn (something) the hard way to understand a situation or develop a skill by learning from your mistakes and bad experiences --> I believe that through knowledge I can avoid learning through the hard way, by making and suffering mistakes.

Is that helping you, as an answer.

Sonia

Yes, Dear Sonia,

I think about and experience what you have described.

You are right - on !  You are like a flower, opening !!
Or perhaps you are a sophisticated professor who only played out your earlier worries to get more involvement from people here !  :o :o

You have described what retrievers and 'sensitives' (people open to psi) feel all the time. Apparently you feel it too.

The vibratory level of souls is more obvious when they 'have their skin off,'  :)  when they are discarnate. When we go in to retrieve them it takes me a moment to adjust to the vibration of some souls -- a certain amount of 'armoring' must be done, but not too much or the retrieval will not continue.

While retrieving the armoring happens rather automatically so it's not a problem.  But some of us don't use enough armoring while meeting people here on Earth. People 'get under our skin.' We are too sensitive for our own good. Especially if one is feeling not well.

Right now there is no science that can measure what you fsense about soul emanations.  Science is beginning to have the instruments that are sensitive enough to record auras and skin tension. Someday they will be able to measure 'ghostly' vibrations and then you will have your 'scientific' explanation.  :)

Bets

Hi Sonia,

Sonia said,
Quote:

Actually, I am much more looking for a scientific explanation of the soul, than a philosophical debate.

The clearest definition I have found in my own searching is in Sri Aurobindo's writings. These are admittedly not easy to read, but I find they are ultimately helpful and rewarding. Below is a quotation from a series of books where excerpts have been extracted from letters he wrote to his students in which he answers these and other questions. In this particular instance he offers some definitions of the soul, even getting into specifics and nuances.

The chapter from which the passage below was taken may be of special interest to AKC members as there are roughly 150 pages devoted to the subject of "Planes and Parts of the Being" - a general subject quite frequently discussed here, and so the material may be found to have some utility in that regard.

http://sriaurobindoashram.info/Content.aspx?ContentURL=_StaticContent/SriAurobindoAshram/-09%20E-Library/-01%20Works%20of%20Sri%20Aurobindo/-01%20English/-22_Letters%20on%20Yoga_Volume-22-23-24/-11_Planes%20and%20Parts%20of%20The%20Being.htm

If you find that you might have further interest in these writings in general, a very comprehensive compilation is available online at the below link. I usually recommend exploring titles and tables of contents there, as many issues and questions common to all seekers can be found in this material. Whether it becomes useful to anyone's individual quest must of course be determined personally.

http://sriaurobindoashram.info/Contents.aspx?ParentCategoryName=_StaticContent/SriAurobindoAshram/-09%20E-Library/-01%20Works%20of%20Sri%20Aurobindo/-01%20English

Sri Aurobindo, in "Letters on Yoga", Part I, Section V, "Planes and Parts of the Being", pgs 282-284,    
Quote:

The Jivatman, spark-soul and psychic being are three different forms of the same reality and they must not be mixed up together, as that confuses the clearness of the inner experience. The Jivatman or spirit, as it is usually called in English, is self-existent above the manifested or instrumental being – it is superior to birth and death, always the same, the individual Self or Atman. It is the eternal true being of the individual. The soul is a spark of the Divine which is not seated above the manifested being, but comes down into the manifestation to support its evolution in the material world. It is at first an undifferentiated power of the Divine Consciousness containing all possibilities which have not yet taken form, but to which it is the function of evolution to give form. This spark is there in all living beings from the lowest to the highest. The psychic being is formed by the soul in its evolution. It supports the mind, vital, body, grows by their experiences, carries the nature from life to life. It is the psychic or caitya purusha. At first it is veiled by mind, vital and body, but as it grows, it becomes capable of coming forward and dominating the mind, life and body; in the ordinary man it depends on them for expression and is not able to take them up and freely use them. The life of the being is animal or human and not divine. When the psychic being can by sadhana become dominant and freely use its instruments, then the impulse towards the Divine becomes complete and the transformation of mind, vital and body, not merely their liberation, becomes possible. The Self or Atman being free and superior to birth and death, the experience of the Jivatman and its unity with the supreme or universal Self brings the sense of liberation, it is this which is necessary for the supreme spiritual deliverance: but for the transformation of the life and nature the awakening of the psychic being and its rule over the nature are indispensable. The psychic being realises its oneness with the true being, the Jivatman, but it does not change into it. (...) The Jivatman is already one with the Divine in reality, but what is needed is that the rest of the consciousness should realize it. The aspiration of the psychic being is for the opening of the whole lower nature, mind, vital, body to the Divine, for the love and union with the Divine, for its presence and power within the heart, for the transformation of the mind, life and body by the descent of the higher consciousness into this instrumental being and nature. Both aspirations are essential and indispensable for the fullness of this yoga. When the psychic imposes its aspiration on the mind, vital and body, then they too aspire and this is what was felt as the aspiration from the level of the lower being. The aspiration felt above is that of the Jivatman for the higher consciousness with its realisation of the One to manifest in the being. Therefore both aspirations help each other. The seeking of the lower being is necessarily at first intermittent   and oppressed by the ordinary consciousness. It has, by sadhana, to become clear, constant, strong and enduring. The sense of peace, purity and calm is brought about by the union of the lower with the higher consciousness. It is usually either intermittent or else remains in a deeper consciousness, veiled often by the storms and agitations of the surface; it is seldom permanent at first, but it can become permanent by increased frequency and endurance of the calm and peace and finally by the full descent of the eternal peace and calm and silence of the higher consciousness into the lower nature.

sadhana (sah'-dah-nah) basically means "practice"

- u

Betson,

YOU WROTE:
"You are right - on !  You are like a flower, opening !!
Or perhaps you are a sophisticated professor who only played out your earlier worries to get more involvement from people here !"

What exactly do you mean. It is not very clear to me.

Sonia