What is the thing/knowledge/experience for which a soul has to take birth on physical plane ? Why is it not achievable in spirit plane itself ?

It is. Many beings participate in this Earth Life System who do not have physical expression. Many, many do so from what Monroe called Focus 27, and some call them angels, guides, spirits, or whatever. The Course in Miracles says, "God's angels hover near and all about."

Thomas

Greetings,

Another way of saying what Thomas just said is that
no matter what kind of matters a soul gets involved in,
on the Earth plane or others, the great spirit of God/ the Source has ways of being with us.
That Love is all that matters.

Bets

Similar to what Thomas said, I've heard that a lot of spirit beings don't incarnate physically. There are many ways of learning. Some of just happened to take on this method of learning because in the end we figured it would benefit us.

I believe that one thing incarnating into this World teaches us is contrast. Sometimes it isn't possible to fully understand the positive aspect of a possibility, without understanding the negative aspect. For example, can humility be fully understood without knowing about arrogance? Can grattitude be fully understood, without fully understanding how much we have to be gratefull for?

Living in this World also provides us with opportunities to develop the unique qualities of our Soul.

Living in this World also provides us with just one of many ways of learning to make use of the creative aspect of our being.

It is also a matter of seeing what is possible. We can take what is good, and use it later on.

Not too long ago I had this experience that was hard to remember, but it basically seemed to tell me that all is one, and despite how things seem, in the end everything works itself out so everything is just nifty. This oneness can't avoid doing so.

Higher Realm asked:
What is the thing/knowledge/experience for which a soul has to take birth on physical plane ? Why is it not achievable in spirit plane itself ?

-----------------------------

Why does grass grow? Why do birds fly out of the nest? Why do fish leap into the air?

Obviously, I do not have the exact reason that YOU are here. You are unique, and yet you are like me.

Perhaps we came here to learn these two things. How we are different, and how we are alike.

Perhaps we are part of the plan. If there is a plan.

It seems that we do have a small part in influencing this plan, in creating this world.

So, I would say, you have something to contribute to this world, just as a butterfly does.

I think we are as free as that butterfly. It's a gift.

Hi highest_realm,

I am not by any means an expert in the subject of your query, and indeed as blink suggests, it is perhaps the task of everyone individually to answer that question for themselves in their own way and according to God's Will. But since we can share our beliefs and preferences here in the interest of inspiration and service, and since I have also been interested in the same thing I will add the following -

My current very theoretical "understanding" which may either augment or contradict others here, is that:

The human life in the physical embodies the potential of fully realizing God-Identity while an individuated being.
Some humans choose this path and others do not.

Beings that do not incarnate in physical are 'typal' beings that conform to the various laws and limitations of the relative plane in non-physical they are denizens of while 'there' - ie: They can travel within their world,  put pressure on/have effect on descending planes from 'above' but generally not the reverse. Gods, gods, devas, asuras, angels, etc., etc. and other beings may effect Earth life according to their specific role and individual power, but if they want to realize God they too have to incarnate into the physical, and eventually into the human.

A human being with the 7 chakras is the embodiment in potential of all Reality. This could be why it is said that "Man was made in God's Image", that the "Whole universe was created for the soul of man", that the entire universe exists inside the heart of man. Also, this is perhaps the reason why the Buddhists say that getting a human life is the greatest blessing in either physical or non-physical existence. Humans have not only this potential, but also have free will, self-consciousness, plenty of help and protection from Source/God either directly or through various intermediaries - including very advanced guides and Incarnations Who have come specifically to help Earth with this process.

There are supposedly many beings and types of beings of a huge range of expression in non-physical that do not care for realization and have their respective roles to play in their respective realm. Some types may even incarnate in physical just for the brief experience of physical life, human or otherwise without accepting the path of realization. Animal souls that come to Earth may or may not elect to receive a human incarnation. But it is only in the human on Earth in which the human soul may acquire the results of this particular continued evolution (which by definition does not occur in non-physical) for this purpose and eventual goal of realization.

Conversely, humans may experience through the opening (deliberate and otherwise) of kundalini chakras - various other realms of non-physical existence while in the physical (which is much discussed on this website), but this is not necessarily representative of any embodied Totality or God-realization, even though fully realized beings will have full access to complete kundalini powers.

A human life is the only being/form that can achieve and permanently become the comprehensive, complete, infinite, eternal, immortal IDENTITY of both existence and 'non-existence'.

There have been examples of God-realization in human history, in addition to the special example  of Avatars (direct descent from Godhead into Incarnation - ie. Krishna, Buddha, Christ), Who are obviously by nature God-realized.

Realization has previously been very rare and still is compared to the numbers of human beings on Earth, but I believe we are living in a time when an acceleration of this elective processs is and will be more and more available to greater and greater numbers of people.


Suggested reading that has been helpful to me:

Sri Aurobindo  "The Life Divine"  http://www.sriaurobindoashram.com/Contents.aspx?ParentCategoryName=_StaticContent/SriAurobindoAshram/-09%20E-Library/-01%20Works%20of%20Sri%20Aurobindo/-01%20English/-18_The%20Life%20Divine_Volume-18

Sri Chinmoy  "Samadhi and Siddhi", "Great Masters and the Cosmic Gods", "God, Avatars, Yogis"  www.srichinmoylibrary.com

Best regards,

- u

There are some characteristics here on this physical plane which probably aren't available in other places.
PERSISTENCE: You may have many strange thoughts during the day, but they won't manifest physically (at least not immediately). Therefore, the physical surrounding forces us all the time to not drift off completely in our own private realm, but staying focused on the shared physical reality.
MIXING: In the physical, we have all types of folks. On the one hand, this can be quite annoying and is the reason for struggles of all sorts, on the other hand, it is a chance to become known of a greater variety of thinking than perhaps we would experience in nonphysical realms, when we follow the like-attracts-like-principle.
LIMITATIONS and INTELLECT: In the physical we have to deal with limitations which aren't there elsewhere. From this, humans learnt to develop intellectual, rational thinking and learnt humbleness.
ENERGY MANIPULATION: Monroe told, our physical way to manipulate energies is quite valuable in other energy systems, too.
PUL: Earth life graduates seem to develop the ability to send and receive this special energy in a unique way.

Spooky

Awesome views friends ! Thanks.

Now I do realize that physical plane has characteristics that are unique to it. "persistance", "limitations", "contrast", "potential of GOD-identity",  "real test" and so on.

On the other hand, yes, because of the ultimate ONE-ness, it does not matter, as its same as everything else really. Its just a different learning experience.

My further curiousity is -

(1) does a soul incarnate on physical plane by choice (what abt karmas ?) ?
(2) between two physical lives, what does a soul do on spiritual plane(s) ?

Love.

Betson has already given lovely views on this :


betson wrote on Aug 8^th, 2008 at 9:26am:

Hello Highest, What I've heard is that --- The highest planes that man can describe are 'above/ beyond' the typically described heavens or focus levels.  Beyond that, the intensity of loving energy and the lack of a sense of time or matter make the experience impossible to relate in human words. You can find some Near Death Experiences on the web that go so far into heavenly realms that they 'become one with the mind of God,' and have one of these unexplainable experiences. On this site, Alan McDougall is one who has experienced this. What they describe is the same as what mystics throughout human history have described. What those of us experience who visit the Afterlife which is nearer to our lives now is  an increase in Loving energies, a luminescence, and a less material lightness of being that seems to hint that these qualities will increase as the heaviness of material Earth-bound reality eases. Every realm is explored by a soul until there is no more to learn there. Every aspect of every realm is full of discovery and wondrousness. Every realm is closer to The Source. "Will we still be searching for Higher Truth and realities?" It seems that as we get closer to the Source, we unite with it, and so 'searching' for something separate from ourselves is no longer possible. It becomes more of a celebration of the essence of Life's vitality and love ! PUL Bets

I think there are no coincidences. I think we come here with a specific purpose or theme, and the rest of it is the filler for that.

I would have not have believed it, but there actually IS a line of people waiting to come back to Earth in handicapped bodies, as caretakers of those handicapped bodies, and as mirrors of those bodies. Whatever for, you might ask? To experience getting and giving Pure Unconditional Love. Love is all there is that is real; the rest of it is just blah-blah-blah. Now, a few years ago this would have sounded like New Age bullshit to me (still does in a way....). Yes, I think this can also be experienced non-physically, and I think that there are many, many such non-physical expressions doing exactly that. And other forms of expression, too (like plants, animals, etc.).

Last night I stood on my deck and was absorbed in swatting a mosquito on my leg and scratching last night's bite. Then I looked up to the stars. What an expansion! So-- don't forget to look up! The stars were there even before I looked, as they are now even though I cannot see them in the daylight...... all you have to do is look, and intend to see. Remember that the indians could not see Columbus' ships floating in the harbor even though they were there floating in the harbor. Their inability  to see did not change the ships floating there.....

So, too, said Jesus: "The kingdom of heaven is spread before your eyes, but you do not seeit...."

There is much more under heaven and earth, Horatio, than is dreamt of in our philosophies..... (Shakespeare).

Thomas

tgecks wrote on Aug 11^th, 2008 at 11:17am:

I think there are no coincidences. I think we come here with a specific purpose or theme, and the rest of it is the filler for that.

But if one forgets or does not remember the purpose as soon as born here (nobody normally remembers ?) - incarnation on earth does not serve any use right ? One may say we remember subconsciously and act likewise - in which case its ok - may be thats how the system is.


tgecks wrote on Aug 11^th, 2008 at 11:17am:

but there actually IS a line of people waiting to come back to Earth in handicapped bodies, as caretakers of those handicapped bodies, and as mirrors of those bodies.

How do we know that tgdecks ?

I know that because I have been there, and looked, and discussed it with the beings who manage it all with us. You can, too. Go see for yourself.

Like Bob Monroe told me, "Go see, and come back and let me know what you find."

Don't take me word for it. Excellent!

Thomas

Thomas - that exactly is my wish to know - why handicapped ? why spirit would choose pain voluntarily ?

I would be highly obliged if you can ask their answer to this - it would be a very meaningful message to have - wont it ?

Realm-
Well, I think we come here to learn, and that this is not a random event. It would not be nearly the same if there were not any challenges. Some souls choose to take on more than the usual challenges, and that can be as the affected individual or as a caretaker of that individual. For what? To experience Pure Unconditional Love in its many forms and manifestations. For the opportunity....to give it, to get it, to be shown the way by it.

My opinion, anyhow...

Thomas

highest_realm wrote on Aug 11^th, 2008 at 7:48am:

Awesome views friends ! Thanks. Now I do realize that physical plane has characteristics that are unique to it. "persistance", "limitations", "contrast", "potential of GOD-identity",  "real test" and so on. On the other hand, yes, because of the ultimate ONE-ness, it does not matter, as its same as everything else really. Its just a different learning experience. My further curiousity is - (1) does a soul incarnate on physical plane by choice (what abt karmas ?) ? (2) between two physical lives, what does a soul do on spiritual plane(s) ? Love.

Hi H_R

You can find all the answers at:

http://books.google.ca/books?id=P61usXlFKKIC&printsec=frontcover&dq=inauthor:Michael+inauthor:Newton&sig=ACfU3U3RZc-Sz3hmA8yT9ft9VMHXPF97Fw

"Journey of Souls" by Michael Newton - amazing reading.

Regards,
SL

If the greatest gift was to experience the "experience" of life then the greatest gift of love would be to allow some other soul to have the experience instead of yourself. Some will never experience the gift of life, but will remain helping those who need the experience or the challenge it offers more than themselves. The greatest gift there is to give of yourself. Sacrifice, in order to help another. It can be as little as a smile, an acknowledgement,  a seat on the bus, a parking spot. The size of this gift doesn't matter. The love expression it shows is beyond measurable size.    

Still_Living wrote on Aug 19^th, 2008 at 8:25am:

highest_realm wrote on Aug 11th, 2008 at 7:48am: Awesome views friends ! Thanks. Now I do realize that physical plane has characteristics that are unique to it. "persistance", "limitations", "contrast", "potential of GOD-identity",  "real test" and so on. On the other hand, yes, because of the ultimate ONE-ness, it does not matter, as its same as everything else really. Its just a different learning experience. My further curiousity is - (1) does a soul incarnate on physical plane by choice (what abt karmas ?) ? (2) between two physical lives, what does a soul do on spiritual plane(s) ? Love. Hi H_R You can find all the answers at: http://books.google.ca/books?id=P61usXlFKKIC&printsec=frontcover&dq=inauthor:Michael+inauthor:Newton&sig=ACfU3U3RZc-Sz3hmA8yT9ft9VMHXPF97Fw "Journey of Souls" by Michael Newton - amazing reading. Regards, SL

Here is an Excerpt from the Journey of Souls page #99:
(I have the full PDF version)

The Beginner Soul
THERE are two types of beginner souls: souls who are truly young in terms of
exposure to an existence out of the spirit world, and souls who have been
reincarnating on Earth for a long period of relative time, but still remain immature.
I find beginner souls of both types in Levels I and II.
I believe almost three-quarters of all souls who inhabit human bodies on Earth
today are still in the early stages of development. I know this is a grossly
discouraging statement because it means most of our human population is operating
at the lower end of their training. On the other hand, when I consider a world
population beset by so much negative cross-cultural misunderstanding and violence,
I am not inclined to change my opinion about the high percentage of lower level
souls on Earth. However, I do think each century brings improvement of awareness
in all humans.
Over a number of years, I have maintained a statistical count of client soul levels in
my case files. Undoubtedly, the figures are weighted to some extent at the lower
levels because these subjects were not selected at random. My cases could be overrepresented
by souls at the lower levels of development because they are the very
people who require assistance in life and might come to me seeking information.
For those who are curious, the percentages by soul level of all my cases are as
follows: Level I, 42%; Level II, 31%; Level III, 17%; Level IV, 9%; and Level V,
1%. Projecting these figures into a world population of five billion souls would be
unreliable, using my small sample. Nevertheless, I see the Possibility we may have
only a few hundred thousand people on Earth at Level V.

Notice his opinion on what level of souls most of us on planet Earth are...
I do not find that all that far fetched myself....

Here is some more on the same page:
My subjects state that souls end their incarnations on Earth when they reach full
maturity. What is significant about the high percentage of souls in the early stages
of development is our rapidly multiplying population and the urgency babies have
for available souls. We are increasing by 260,000 children per day. This human
necessity for souls means they must normally be drawn from a spiritual pool of less
advanced entities who require more incarnations to progress and are, therefore,
more available to return to another life.
I am sensitive to the feelings of clients whom I know to be in the early stages of
development. I cannot count the number of times a new client has come into my
office and said, "I know I am an old soul, but I seem to have problems coping with
life." We all want to be advanced souls because most people hate to be considered a
beginner in anything. Every case is unique. There are many variables within each
soul's character, individual development rate, and the qualities of the guides
assigned to them. I see my task as offering interpretations of what subjects report to
me about the progression of their souls.
I have had many cases where a client has been incarnating for up to 30,000 years on
Earth and is still in the lower levels of I and II. The reverse is also true with a few
people, although rapid acceleration in spiritual development is uncommon. As with
any educational model, students find certain lessons more difficult than others. One
of my clients has not been able to conquer envy for 850 years in numerous lives, but
she did not have too much trouble overcoming bigotry by the end of this same
period. Another has spent nearly 1700 years off-and-on seeking some sort of
authoritative power over others. However, he has gained compassion.

This is so true....I have not met ANYone that desires to be a n00b (Beginner) at anything...much less a Beginning or Under-Developed SOUL for that matter.  :)

Maybe this is why our planet has so many problems.
We simply have not 'Grown Up' in the REAL SENSE of that term.
Meaning Spiritually...

So when I read about people on forums such as this stating that they are NEVER coming back to Earth as a human being again kinda makes me laugh.
I have said this myself. I have wanted to believe that I do not 'need' to come back anymore.
However, in reality I can now tell that I definitely do NEED to come back and work on my lessons.
I have not met ANYone yet that does not NEED to come back in my opinion....

We do not HAVE to come back. We do have that CHOICE.
However, from reading this book I have come to understand that we do come back.
Over & Over again after we have had time to recharge, study, enjoy life on 'that side' of it.
Linear Time has NO MEANING there.  So it takes however 'long' it takes to get ready to come back in the 3D world.

There is an UpDated Version of this man's book too.
It is titled: Destiny of Souls.  A bit more indepth then the first one.

If you search you can find the bitTorrent of these books online and then turn it into a PDF file.
I am going to actually purchase these books soon anyways.
I just wanted to get reading right away.