What do you guys think about Elkhart?? I think he has some great teachings and I loved his book "The Power of Now." If, you guys haven't read his book, please do it for the better sake of yourselves..

peace n' love

To some extent, various teachers are needed in the Earth, and i'm grateful for everyone of them with a more pure, loving motivation.   Yet, those who perceive perfectly (or limitlessly) are those who fully live perfectly (limitlessly).   Few are those in our recorded history and few in our modern times.  I personally know and am sure of only one who completely transcended the flesh while in same, but that's a loaded subject apparently and so i won't name names.

 To me, it makes sense to listen more deeply and closely to those latter Earth incarnated teachers, but going within self is extremely important and ultimately becomes the guiding light once the basic, right ideals are established.

The weird thing is, you never really need a teacher, and yet for many it oft becomes beneficial at some point to listen to same if you do not become overly attached to them and/or their teachings.   Odd and contradictory boat we find ourselves in, isn't it?

 To answer your question, he seems like a good author and teacher.   Whether or not he has completely transcended illusion within himself, and thus his perceptions are free of misconception, limitations, etc. is another question.    

 People here are generally more interested in finding out stuff less through books than through direct self experiencing and exploring.

Well put Justin. Regarding Elkhart Tolle, I read some of the power of now, and some of the things he says are good. I definitely don't believe he has all of the answers. It would be better if he taught what he teaches without labeling himself as enlightened. Eventually a person will get to the point where they realize that the word "enlightened" is way over used.

I'll say this for Elkhart. During an interview he stated that he doesn't like to be on tour for too long because he loses touch with the stillness. This is one of the most honest statements I've heard a guru make. Many try to claim that they are completely transcendent when they aren't.

I don't believe that enlightenment comes in the way Elkhart claims. You're depressed, you almost commit suicide, and then you become enlightened. If this were true so many suicides wouldn't take place and instead we'd have a bunch of enlightened people in this World.  Enlightenment, to whatever degree one has it, it doesn't have to be an all or nothing matter, comes through looking at one's limitations honestly and letting go of these limitations. Sometimes these limitations include the belief systems we picked up from gurus. If we can't get ourselves to the point where we will question the assertions of our favorite gurus, how far will we progress?

recoverer wrote on May 28^th, 2008 at 1:42pm:

Well put Justin. Regarding Elkhart Tolle, I read some of the power of now, and some of the things he says are good. I definitely don't believe he has all of the answers. It would be better if he taught what he teaches without labeling himself as enlightened. Eventually a person will get to the point where they realize that the word "enlightened" is way over used. I'll say this for Elkhart. During an interview he stated that he doesn't like to be on tour for too long because he loses touch with the stillness. This is one of the most honest statements I've heard a guru make. Many try to claim that they are completely transcendent when they aren't. I don't believe that enlightenment comes in the way Elkhart claims. You're depressed, you almost commit suicide, and then you become enlightened. If this were true so many suicides wouldn't take place and instead we'd have a bunch of enlightened people in this World.  Enlightenment, to whatever degree one has it, it doesn't have to be an all or nothing matter, comes through looking at one's limitations honestly and letting go of these limitations. Sometimes these limitations include the belief systems we picked up from gurus. If we can't get ourselves to the point where we will question the assertions of our favorite gurus, how far will we progress?

Good points, you guys... I agree, that you must always question your teacher and not take every single word for what they say it is.. Because really it all just comes from your own inner experience, that gives you the right answer.. No one can tell you what life is, it has to come from your own feelings about life..

I know Elkhart doesn't have all the answers, but to me he is a good start.. I have many teachers and I don't just stick to one.. From many different philosophies.. I'm trying not to get stuck in one belief system..


peace n' love

briggs5534 wrote on May 28^th, 2008 at 1:46pm:

Good points, you guys... I agree, that you must always question your teacher and not take every single word for what they say it is.. Because really it all just comes from your own inner experience, that gives you the right answer.. No one can tell you what life is, it has to come from your own feelings about life.. I know Elkhart doesn't have all the answers, but to me he is a good start.. I have many teachers and I don't just stick to one.. From many different philosophies.. I'm trying not to get stuck in one belief system.. peace n' love

  That's a very good stance to take Briggs, or at least i believe.   I believe it's not so much about specific belief systems and all, but more about how one lives in relation to ones other selves and to Creation in general.

If you are loving, helpful, positive, kind, and appreciative to others and toward Creation in general, you will have nothing to worry about and everything to gain.  

Sure, some specific limiting beliefs here and there may have to get reevaluated, but by far it's how you live and treat others that's important and not so much the specifics of your beliefs UNLESS they are blocking certain aspects of doing the former.  

 The path is totally Universal, though i would say some teachers are more effective catalysts than others in the direct and general sense.  

Elkhart:

Sounds like a great plan. Don't make the mistake I made and get stuck in any one way of thinking for too long.  Despite how it might seem, I'm not sorry that I got involved with Advaita Vedanta because I did learn some things during that stage of my life that were useful.  

Regarding how much Elkhart helps people, I figure it varies from person to person. We have different needs during different stages of our life.



I know Elkhart doesn't have all the answers, but to me he is a good start.. I have many teachers and I don't just stick to one.. From many different philosophies.. I'm trying not to get stuck in one belief system..


peace n' love[/quote]

Hey,


I agree, wholeheartedly with you as well! I just try to treat everyone with the same respect I like to be treated.. I try not to judge anyone.. So, it's best to just go with the flow and be a loving person..

peace n' love

briggs:

I hope I didn't write anything that you found to be offensive.  When a person asks what people think of a source of information, I figure he or she wants to hear what people think.  I could keep quiet, but I don't believe it would be loving for me to do so. If we can't share what our experience has showed us, what are we left with?


briggs5534 wrote on May 28^th, 2008 at 2:18pm:

Hey, I agree, wholeheartedly with you as well! I just try to treat everyone with the same respect I like to be treated.. I try not to judge anyone.. So, it's best to just go with the flow and be a loving person.. peace n' love

Hi Briggs, I loved The Power of Now back when it came out. It helped me a lot at the time when I read the book and listened to his cassette tape in my car. I have skimmed most of A New Earth, not so long ago. I like Tolle a lot, and I can see why he is so popular.  

I suppose, from my own point of view, that it doesn't really matter to me whether someone calls himself "enlightened" or not. Not in any way that counts, I could say.  There are a few ways a book can fall into my hands...I could pick it up, someone could hand it to me, or maybe I might write it myself. All the same to me.

Tolle is a very calming influence, and no doubt is accomplishing a great deal in his quiet way. I think the world could use a few more friends like him.

recoverer wrote on May 28^th, 2008 at 2:47pm:

briggs: I hope I didn't write anything that you found to be offensive.  When a person asks what people think of a source of information, I figure he or she wants to hear what people think.  I could keep quiet, but I don't believe it would be loving for me to do so. If we can't share what our experience has showed us, what are we left with? briggs5534 wrote on May 28th, 2008 at 2:18pm: Hey, I agree, wholeheartedly with you as well! I just try to treat everyone with the same respect I like to be treated.. I try not to judge anyone.. So, it's best to just go with the flow and be a loving person.. peace n' love

Hey Recoverer,

Oh, not at all my friend.. That's why I asked in the first place.. I don't want people to spoon feed and sugarcoat stuff.. I'm glad your bringing something different to the table.. It opens my eyes to seek the truth... Right now though Advaita Vedanta is helping me out and other people I talk to with different philosophies...

Thanks, for your feedback!! :)

NAMASTE! peace n' love

briggs:

You don't want people to sugar coat stuff? That's music to my ears.  :) I've found that good friends can speak honestly with each other. For example, Justin and I aren't afraid to be direct with each other on personal messages. However, we never communicate to each other in a vindictive way.



briggs5534 wrote on May 28^th, 2008 at 5:07pm:

recoverer wrote on May 28th, 2008 at 2:47pm: briggs: I hope I didn't write anything that you found to be offensive.  When a person asks what people think of a source of information, I figure he or she wants to hear what people think.  I could keep quiet, but I don't believe it would be loving for me to do so. If we can't share what our experience has showed us, what are we left with? briggs5534 wrote on May 28th, 2008 at 2:18pm: Hey, I agree, wholeheartedly with you as well! I just try to treat everyone with the same respect I like to be treated.. I try not to judge anyone.. So, it's best to just go with the flow and be a loving person.. peace n' love Hey Recoverer, Oh, not at all my friend.. That's why I asked in the first place.. I don't want people to spoon feed and sugarcoat stuff.. I'm glad your bringing something different to the table.. It opens my eyes to seek the truth... Right now though Advaita Vedanta is helping me out and other people I talk to with different philosophies... Thanks, for your feedback!! :) NAMASTE! peace n' love

Hey, good to see that your an honest person! That's what I want from everyone.. I just don't want to be associated with any religion really or guru teacher.. Because it's all really up to myself and God to choose the best path for myself..

I'm not really anti-religous ,but I guess it's all for the right thing..

That's why I like taking the non-duality approach in life.. Because you don't separate people from others.. Were all created in God's image...That's what I like so much about advaita vedanta..

So, keep talking to me about your opinions on the things l'm interested in..

peace n' love

This site Briggs has been a big help to me too. Writing is sometimes a great way of exploring our own view on stuff. There's very few places where it's possible to discuss this sort of stuff, and as such it's a resource to be treasured.

I'd have to say that I'm a fan of Eckhardt Tolle too. Much as you guys say he may or may not be the real deal - but it's clear that he has a gift for putting teaching that feels right in a very practical and consequently usable way. My sense is that he transmits rather more than the words too.

I'm there too as you know on beliefs. My sense is that getting attached to beliefs is the biggest barrier to our opening there is. It happens so subtly.

Language is another issue - between it's limitations when dealing with the ultimately inexpressible, and the tendency we all have to selectively perceive it can be very hard to not get our wires crossed...

wrote on May 28^th, 2008 at 6:52pm:

This site Briggs has been a big help to me too. Writing is sometimes a great way of exploring our own view on stuff. There's very few places where it's possible to discuss this sort of stuff, and as such it's a resource to be treasured. I'd have to say that I'm a fan of Eckhardt Tolle too. Much as you guys say he may or may not be the real deal - but it's clear that he has a gift for putting teaching that feels right in a very practical and consequently usable way. My sense is that he transmits rather more than the words too. I'm there too as you know on beliefs. My sense is that getting attached to beliefs is the biggest barrier to our opening there is. It happens so subtly. Language is another issue - between it's limitations when dealing with the ultimately inexpressible, and the tendency we all have to selectively perceive it can be very hard to not get our wires crossed...

Your right this is a great site! To me honestly, Elkhart Tolle is an honest person.. I wouldn't say he's the best teacher or anything, but he totally is an enlightened person.. You can tell just by his pure prescence.. Just watch his videos and you will know what I mean.. From what I've watched on him and read his books, he seems to speak from the heart and is very truthful..

peace n' love

Briggs: he's the genuine article alright; a real teacher with an important message to impart.  Important for a new generation that is, those who missed the great Alan Watts, another fine modern american teacher in the Zen tradition.  I spent a lot of the seventies and eighties reading and mulling over Alan Watts and some of the more traditional zen teachings, so most of Tolle is "old hat" to me.
And that's not bragging; that's just what happens when you've been around awhile.

gordon phinn



briggs5534 wrote on May 28^th, 2008 at 12:38pm:

What do you guys think about Elkhart?? I think he has some great teachings and I loved his book "The Power of Now." If, you guys haven't read his book, please do it for the better sake of yourselves.. peace n' love

 My perception is that if Alan Watts (or any teacher now dead) was completely enlightened, chances are he would still using form (an apparent physical body) to be of service to his fellow human beings, like He/She of Monroe's last book and Yeshua of the N.T. and of the Shroud of Turin are doing.  

 The most effective service to others, is holistic service, and that means consciously within every dimension simultaneously.  

 It is a lack of understanding of true and full enlightenment that facilitates people buying into the notion that this, that, or another teacher is fully enlightened just because they say are, have meditated for a long while or had unusual experiences, and can speak wise words.  

 "Enlightenment" is exactly that for a human, the entire energy system of a human, including the physical body translates and resonates to a pure, super fast coherent Light frequency and in that resonation space/time and all accompanying limitations are dropped for good.  

 My sense is that there are definitely others out there besides He/She and Yeshua, but few of them are "public" in the sense that they proclaim themselves this or that, or look for followers.  They are probably fairly quiet and just go about their work being a constant example of pure Light in action and transforming energy and consciousness of those around them.  

 My sense is that more of these will step out into the limelight after the major part of the changes take place, and that there will be a percentage of humans alive now who have the probable potential to complete this within their selves within the next couple generations who also will become more public teachers after and during the changes.  

Hi All, I didn't know this thread was here discussing Tolle, and here I was over in announcements thread talking about his new book New Earth all by myself! lol. it illustrates that we are developing a group consciousness.

as well sometimes I end up talking with a member out there at night and remember snatches of conversation which shows up here..those are nice synchronicities I almost come to expect graciously.

Briggs, I don't know if you know Kathy, Lights of Love, she mentioned it was a good read, and I had gotten the Power of Now a long time ago. I find his new book to be more flowing, while the Power of Now made me concentrate harder, which is good too. my mind wanders a lot when I read, so I have to disapline myself which is coming along ok.

Yes, he's the real deal from my perceptions, and I've viewed him on U-tube, where you can read body language and see the eyes..subtle language of spirit going on there. He's happy. not many happy people in the world. most unusual.

I've also had the pleasure of viewing our friend Gordon on U-tube!  Gordon, you too are a delight to view, you have a soothing voice as well. Briggs, if u get a chance read Gordon's book, How to Enjoy Eternity, wait, Gordon, please correct the title.

and mention the 2nd one I'm on now, I only have less than a hundred pages to read on it, I like to savor each page. when I read entire rotes start floating by..I get completely immersed in a good book. If you like authors who do not BS around, that's Gordon. As well, Gordon actually has a personality and a sense of humor, pluses in my book.

Tolle inspires me to create a space in myself, a center, he speaks of the new consciousness upon the Earth, he will mention certain things JC said now and then to back up his verbose, which I like that too. He will now and then quote something from ACIM, but mostly it is him speaking about this new age upon us, where you Briggs, will still be here to enjoy what's coming, long after I'm gone and I want to check in on you and see if you're having fun after I'm gone, that is if you don't mind!

just a little note: it's very difficult to write a book without personal bias. it's a grueling task to be reading your own book as if you were another personality..but this is necessary to read your self, as we write things later, we wish to change one minute later, we are constantly becoming here, but some are masters, they are just enjoying who they are, still learning perhaps, but by sharing what they've learned, we are able to spread what is our common truth, a bit of happy, a bit of progress.

It's the little things that count. So I applaud most people for writing a book, for even trying to and always ask which book to read, as we can't read them ALL!

so we pick what resonates best with our level of understanding. Spirit will not fail to answer the sincere question which book to read that is our next level to leap to.

thank you Gordon, for I do believe, to my perception, for what it's worth, your book will someday be a classic. and maybe Tolle's will too. love, alysia

Thank you, alysia, for the kind words about my books and video.!
gordon





LaffingRain wrote on May 31^st, 2008 at 10:40pm:

Hi All, I didn't know this thread was here discussing Tolle, and here I was over in announcements thread talking about his new book New Earth all by myself! lol. it illustrates that we are developing a group consciousness. as well sometimes I end up talking with a member out there at night and remember snatches of conversation which shows up here..those are nice synchronicities I almost come to expect graciously. Briggs, I don't know if you know Kathy, Lights of Love, she mentioned it was a good read, and I had gotten the Power of Now a long time ago. I find his new book to be more flowing, while the Power of Now made me concentrate harder, which is good too. my mind wanders a lot when I read, so I have to disapline myself which is coming along ok. Yes, he's the real deal from my perceptions, and I've viewed him on U-tube, where you can read body language and see the eyes..subtle language of spirit going on there. He's happy. not many happy people in the world. most unusual. I've also had the pleasure of viewing our friend Gordon on U-tube!  Gordon, you too are a delight to view, you have a soothing voice as well. Briggs, if u get a chance read Gordon's book, How to Enjoy Eternity, wait, Gordon, please correct the title. and mention the 2nd one I'm on now, I only have less than a hundred pages to read on it, I like to savor each page. when I read entire rotes start floating by..I get completely immersed in a good book. If you like authors who do not BS around, that's Gordon. As well, Gordon actually has a personality and a sense of humor, pluses in my book. Tolle inspires me to create a space in myself, a center, he speaks of the new consciousness upon the Earth, he will mention certain things JC said now and then to back up his verbose, which I like that too. He will now and then quote something from ACIM, but mostly it is him speaking about this new age upon us, where you Briggs, will still be here to enjoy what's coming, long after I'm gone and I want to check in on you and see if you're having fun after I'm gone, that is if you don't mind! just a little note: it's very difficult to write a book without personal bias. it's a grueling task to be reading your own book as if you were another personality..but this is necessary to read your self, as we write things later, we wish to change one minute later, we are constantly becoming here, but some are masters, they are just enjoying who they are, still learning perhaps, but by sharing what they've learned, we are able to spread what is our common truth, a bit of happy, a bit of progress. It's the little things that count. So I applaud most people for writing a book, for even trying to and always ask which book to read, as we can't read them ALL! so we pick what resonates best with our level of understanding. Spirit will not fail to answer the sincere question which book to read that is our next level to leap to. thank you Gordon, for I do believe, to my perception, for what it's worth, your book will someday be a classic. and maybe Tolle's will too. love, alysia

gordon phinn wrote on May 31^st, 2008 at 7:34pm:

Briggs: he's the genuine article alright; a real teacher with an important message to impart.  Important for a new generation that is, those who missed the great Alan Watts, another fine modern american teacher in the Zen tradition.  I spent a lot of the seventies and eighties reading and mulling over Alan Watts and some of the more traditional zen teachings, so most of Tolle is "old hat" to me. And that's not bragging; that's just what happens when you've been around awhile. gordon phinn briggs5534 wrote on May 28th, 2008 at 12:38pm: What do you guys think about Elkhart?? I think he has some great teachings and I loved his book "The Power of Now." If, you guys haven't read his book, please do it for the better sake of yourselves.. peace n' love

I agree, with you..  I love his material and his presence is so good when you watch his videos.. You can tell he is a very well-educated man and a spiritual man too.. Whoever thinks he's a fake, I must say shame on you...

peace n' love

Just to add a bit more on Eckhardt. The Power of the Now is a great book, but deals with a certain view of path and existence.

He has a CD out called 'One the Edge of Awakening' which I can highly recommend as well. It's a  treatment of the nature of enlightenment - from a point of view that says that while certain intellectual ideas can get you so far, (he terms them signposts to get you to the edge of the cliff) it's in the end about the need to ultimately drop our identification with even them.

He goes on to develop his view on the problems inherent in getting attached to belief systems, and on the way that seeking after ever more sophisticated theoretical perspectives can sneakily substitute for this  - with the result that we can end up 'stuck'.

The point of course being that eventually we have to drop dependence on the edifice of thought, as it's actually a subtle form of grasping or ego building.

This as Gordon says is fairly standard Buddhist teaching too, but he gets the point across so well and lots more besides....

The scenario of Tolle's having a breakthrough experience following intense emotional distress is not the usual path but not unheard of. Who hasn't occasinally longed for a breakthrough shortcut to "see the Light" like the one Saul of Tarsus experienced. Wouldn't that cut through a lot of work and bs?

What would happen if a significant number of people achieved the "stillness"? What would the world be like?

Which is "more advanced"? to try to achieve the stillness or to try to achieve mastery over creating your own reality?

Has anyone ever met Tolle? Anyone can write anything. The person's presence would tell much more than their writings. But you might have to hang out with the person for a while before you could really tell .... anything significantly different about that person.