APOCRYPHAL VISION LUCID DREAM

Last night I had a disturbing dream about what could be a terrible event of destruction in some modern city, maybe a future event or maybe just a dream vision or OBE I am not sure. I found myself amongst a group of people, woman, children and men of all ages in some place/sanctuary that over looked a large city At first a thought it might be Johannesburg where, I reside. Looking at the skyscraper building they were on first appearance a lot like Johannesburg, which highest building is about 70 stories high very much like a very small New York City.

But it was not Johannesburg, the city was much larger and more like Atlanta or possibly even Huston. Were gathered at high hill or vantage point of some sort over looking this city from a fairly long distance. We all taken into a large hall (not forcibly it was more in a festive mood). Where it was revealed why we were here. A movie was being run over and over again and it was emphasized that we were somehow a privileged few.

The movie revealed that a huge terrorist stronghold had been uncovered that needed to be destroyed with immense power to give them a message they would never forget. The destructive force that was going to bring down was a million or more tones of TNT that the agents had smuggled in and set a time fuse to go off at about 03 30 in that very morning and we were there to see and here this enormous explosion something like the first physicist and scientist viewed the first atom bomb in Los Alamos.

We were told the explosion was chemical in nature and not a nuclear bomb. It was to be the most powerful chemical explosion in history and would be mindbogglingly loud and colorful. It was 02.30 when were told to phone our friends and family to expect the loudest bang and colossal noise they were ever going to hear in their life times. So I did some phoning about.
Crazy guys.

AT about 03.25 all gathered around in excitement to watch this event. Some wore earplugs others earplugs and dark glasses others just closed their eyes, put fingers in their ears and waited

I was in the front line of many persons lined up row by row like soldiers standing at ease. Then it happened all hell burst loose I saw a huge building in the middle of this city explode in blazing unimaginable colossal destructive force. Out of the collapsing building, a small mushroom cloud rose up high into the air and we all burst into applause. This greatest of terrorist strongholds and headquarters were no more.

Then silence a silence malignant, malicious, and frightening... The remains of the target building began to burn as if it were made of firewood and out of it came a mysterious cloud black boiling, maelstrom of colors and heat. The fire spread into other buildings consuming everything in its path like some monstrous out of control forest fire racing towards up as if it was been blown by thousand miles an hour winds.

People in this city began to run and scream, I could see and hear them even though at this stage they were far off in the dying city. We stood transfixed in horror as this monstrous fire came towards us at greater and greater speed much faster than the speed of sound I think.

People burst into flame and vanished and some attempted to run from this man made horror in vain. Then I saw people men, woman, and older children running with their backs on ire to wars the first row of men where I had positioned myself for the spectacle, some spectacle.When they reached us they ran amongst us setting us on fire, I selfishly in terror used a burning man as a shield to keep me from the heat in which I was dying


Then this awful vision ended and I woke in a cold sweat. If I analyze this dream, assuming it was more than just a nightmare. It appears that the huge chemical explosion set off a nuclear weapon in this terrorist fancily with tragic consequences. I don't have any deep hidden fear of nuclear disaster and in South Africa were I stay there is absolutely no threat of terrorism

I am open to your ideas

Alan

I have no idea Alan. other than I read somewhere during this time of the shift in consciousness many pockets of lightworkers are steadily increasing the probabilities of world peace and avoiding nuclear all out war. and also Michael, reading from a channelled source declares there will be no world war 3.

I also read a few singular bombs will be set off, but not in America, and not in Africa. It was somewhere near Asia, it was an underground bomb. Israel and Indonesia come to the top of my head, but don't quote me.  There's supposed to be a hidden bomb somewhere. Some of these dreams or experiences will reflect what's going on in your inner phyche and sometimes they will be predictions, but more likely a mix of the two.

For instance the dream reveals no matter what you think you believe, that you are not free from a fear of death, the dream reveals that your survival instinct, the first chakra, fight or flight, is active. it's rather an instinct built into the dna, but we can reach a state of consciousness to circumvent this instinct and DNA can be changed by consciousness.

If you do conquer all fear within, and you will, and I will too, then your dream vistas change automatically increasing the chances for survival during these turbulent days ahead.

this board is privileged, in a way, to bring thoughts of world peace, so that the idea catches on that terrorists practices have no power to influence us further to war practices.

What a frightening dream, Alan. Very shocking, right down to the very end. It seems that we cannot actually bear to dream our own deaths, but we can imagine all kinds of terrors which might precede it.

But, perhaps elements of this dream are prophetic in some way. It remains to be seen.

Thank you for sharing, as always. I can only think that someday we will all wake up, just as you did, just in time.

love, blink

I've found that people often receive messages of future possibilities, not actualities. They receive them so that some people will be inspired to do something about it. Perhaps some of us can send love and a nice few thoughts to whichever people might be responsible. I don't believe we should underestimate the effect of doing so.  By doing so we might get people who don't usually open up to their soul's message, to do so. We don't need to know who precisely is responsible. We can ask divine guidance to help us direct our love and positive thoughts.

I agree with Recoverer. and to add a positive note, a daily meditation plan to send light into darkened corners is a practice that does help us create as well, a possibility of peace occurring instead of the possibility of war and destruction which leaves that image in our minds.

I think just 10 minutes a day is helpful to visualize peace. the energy towards peaceful conditions is collected by the event planners to counterbalance the opposite forces.
your vote counts here or there.

How about an experiment. We all send love to Alysia today at  1:00 pst, 4:00 et. She'll let us know if she felt it. My guess is that she'll be able to confirm that we can send love to specific individuals, without distance being a barrier.

P.S. Alysia, I hope you don't mind me nominating you to be a receiver of love. :)



LaffingRain wrote on May 23^rd, 2008 at 1:34pm:

I agree with Recoverer. and to add a positive note, a daily meditation plan to send light into darkened corners is a practice that does help us create as well, a possibility of peace occurring instead of the possibility of war and destruction which leaves that image in our minds. I think just 10 minutes a day is helpful to visualize peace. the energy towards peaceful conditions is collected by the event planners to counterbalance the opposite forces. your vote counts here or there.

Greetings,

I don't know how to determine whether your dream, Dear Alan, is a metaphor for current conditions or if it is prophetic.

We could look at various parts as symbollic and see what that leads to----

You felt that being on the sanctuary's higher ground made you safe. You mention that even before the dream told you so (deviously or mistakenly?) You were repeatedly assured that you were among the privileged few.

Immense power would be used against the terrorists. Colors! Loud noises! Something to talk about with your friends! Minimal protection for the chosen few.
The effects of the great power did not dissappoint.

But there were side effects! Those secondary effects spread farther and destroyed more than expected.

All in all,
I sense it's an alleghory--your soul's eye view of either of several serious conflicts going on now.
The times given-- if meant to be warnings of dates-- seem too far in the future, almost a full year away. If your spirit were picking up dangerous plans for this event, I'd expect the event to be closer.

That's just my point of view.

Love, Bets

Definitely, Recoverer and Alysia!  the real purpose of such a dream can be to take action on whatever plane to try to avoid such devastation!  Count me in on "Target Alysia"!

as much as I may be a love hog R, I think we are ruining Alan's thread. ;)

Bets usually has good points..Alan I'm beginning to think the vision refers a sort of philosophy that a nation needs to start a war in order to end a war, and the aftereffects vetoe out the supposed or expected result to avoid destruction.

Alysia:

As I stated earlier, it may be that Alan was informed of a possibility rather than an actual event. This is how it often goes when people receive such imagery. A negative possibility can be negated when people take positive steps such as sending love and positive thoughts to those who could use a positive influence.  I suggested that we conduct a little test and send love to you at 1:00 today so we could see if you would feel it. I guess you didn't.

We could've sent it to any of us, but I chose you because of the below post.


Alysia said:  "I agree with Recoverer. and to add a positive note, a daily meditation plan to send light into darkened corners is a practice that does help us create as well, a possibility of peace occurring instead of the possibility of war and destruction which leaves that image in our minds.

I think just 10 minutes a day is helpful to visualize peace. the energy towards peaceful conditions is collected by the event planners to counterbalance the opposite forces.
your vote counts here or there."





LaffingRain wrote on May 23^rd, 2008 at 7:17pm:

as much as I may be a love hog R, I think we are ruining Alan's thread. ;) Bets usually has good points..Alan I'm beginning to think the vision refers a sort of philosophy that a nation needs to start a war in order to end a war, and the aftereffects vetoe out the supposed or expected result to avoid destruction.

A late P.S.

Considering what Alan wrote below on another thread, I believe he wouldn't mind.


Alan said: "Hijacked come on !! a thread must take its own course like a living entity meandering down pathways of interest. If you become a member of a forum and post a topic this topic belongs to the forum and not to you my friend."

Alan probably wouldn't mind hijacked threads, even if they are his he started, as long as someone tries to include him back into the discussion.
actually I like relaxed threads that go everywhere and end up who knows where..it's creative, so long as it doesn't wander off into some debate totally unrelated to the original posters needs. I seen this happen and then nobody's happy....
But Alan's different...he's flexible, then he can be ultra sensitive too.

Greetings, Alysia, Recoverer, and Alan,

At 3  and 4 pm here I felt a change of energy which reminded me to send Alysia PUL tho it seemed too early. I expected there were 4 time zones across the US meaning 5 pm would have been real time for the east coast. But at 5 we were having an early dinner of pesto on spaghetti and I missed it.  ::)
Perhaps others felt it even if Alysia hasn't remarked on it yet.
Maybe Alan felt it as his part of the connection.

Bets-0 loves her pesto !

I don't know Bets, I did feel a tingle between my ears just now  :) secrets: yesterday I was feeling like dancing...but that was yesterday.. ::) do u think R sent love early? haha! this board makes me feel love most every day..it's hard to tell if theres an extra influx of that stuff..but doesn't mean it didn't work, because sometimes it gets saved up and spread out as needed..ah...I mean no thought of love is ever like a waste..if you get my drift. next time u guys send special delivery so I know who's serving din din.

thanks for the thought.

Alysia,

Secrets make you tingle between your ears?
Or you then told us secrets about dancing etc?

Bets

reading U made my ears tingle because we like each other. :)  I have a secret dancing frenzy in my kitchen occassionally and my neighbors have begun to talk.

just kidding..but I do have neighbors stranger than myself.

Recoverer:


Quote:

I've found that people often receive messages of future possibilities, not actualities.

I agree with this statement.   Probabilities are played out in the dream state, thats to say they are experienced in another level of reality, and the ones which best suite your present beliefs are manifested in physical reality. These experiences are sometimes remembered as dreams. Most people do not realize the significant interconnection between the dream state and waking consciousness.  When this is realized, syncronicities begin to occur at an increasing rate between your dreaming reality and your waking reality.

Hi guys thank you for your input, I was a bit wary about starting this thread because of its negative nature!


Bets

Quote:

I don't know how to determine whether your dream, Dear Alan, is a metaphor for current conditions or if it is prophetic.

I have had dreams much like this before and they were usually prophetic in nature, The reason I posted this dream here instead of the dream segment of the forum was because it was more than a dream as I could feel the heat, pain see what was going on all around me I was inhabiting another body so it falls into the OBE I think

I agree with recoverer that the thread must take its own course from this as we unraveled many truths by our forum group mind

I don’t think the future is carved out in stone and there are choices humanity can take to avoid the awful scenario of this dream. What might happen is that an accidental nuclear blast could happen and god forbid not in any American city. There are many cities outside the USA that could fit the dream event perfectly.

Alysias suggestion that we send contra -love light energy or prayer is vital as what I call the Super -Consciousness does not show us possible future events for nothing.

So lets all send blazing light energy into this dark possibility, yes now just a possibility.

One thing I do know and agree with Allysia is that mankind is not going to be obliterated in some nuclear Holocaust.

love

alan

Out Of Body Dude,

Gosh it is nice to catch you in your body again


Quote:

I agree with this statement.   Probabilities are played out in the dream state, thats to say they are experienced in another level of reality, and the ones which best suite your present beliefs are manifested in physical reality. These experiences are sometimes remembered as dreams. Most people do not realize the significant interconnection between the dream state and waking consciousness.  When this is realized, syncronicities begin to occur at an increasing rate between your dreaming reality and your waking reality

.

Out Of Body Dude

I concur with your statement we are “energy bundles” of different densities all vibrating in sequence with our wake realities and slightly out of syngronicity or sequence with other dimensions, which are vague and often dream like in nature to us. We see them in our dreams or visions etc..

We are all simply dreaming monads,  to monads existing in higher levels of consciousness than us, and conscious  monads existing in a lower vibratory state or dimensions than our wake state.

alan

Hi Alan. I read your original post before in a hurry, but didn't extract any conclusion  - probably because I was rushing.

Reading it again now it seems quite different. My sense is that while it could perhaps have included a prophetic element that it's actually a very clear symbolic message or teaching.

One of the lessons we've as a species failed to learn is that violence solves nothing. The opposite in fact - it leads to inevitable escalation as person after person is drawn into the cycle of preemptive attack, outrage, aggression and revenge.

Terrorism (as we have lots of experience of here in Ireland) starts with perceived injustices against weaker minorities and groups. They turn to surreptitious violence, as open war would result in their being exterminated.

They depend on tacit support from parts of a general population. Power hungry political or religious fundamentalists are often in the mix - stirring hate, providing justification and so on. On both sides - one side are the terrorists, the other the leaders of those the terrorists are reacting against.

Eventually a population of violence addicted people and vested interests is produced who won't stop even if the original justification is removed, and at this point it becomes very hard to end. (a small minority of ours have gone on to become hit men for criminal elements and so on, others continue to make a living as officially sanctioned deliverers of violence on behalf of the state)

Pardon me if this feels political (because it's not - it's just a view on the nature of violence and the use of force), but the mention in your dream Alan of 'teaching the terrorists a lesson', and use of massive but surgically targeted force seems all too typical of the rhetoric and mistakenly conceived approach adopted by our lords and masters on our behalf.

I'd suggest that the symbolism may be a demonstration of the above principle - of the way that there's no such thing as violence that does not escalate. The effects of the bomb blast initially seem focused, but of course they rapidly spread out to seriously effect everybody.

There's even the little sting in the tail (people using people to shield themselves) that reminds us that in a world where this sort of delusional thinking holds sway the usual state affairs is that when push comes to shove short term self interest rules above all other considerations.

Put another way. You can't solve a problem at it's own level, you can't fight fire with fire without making the situation worse. We're instead required to adopt a higher (integrating) viewpoint, and to search for solutions in the middle ground. This is a very ancient teaching....

Varga,


Quote:

I'd suggest that the symbolism may be a demonstration of the above principle - of the way that there's no such thing as violence that does not escalate. The effects of the bomb blast initially seem focused, but of course they rapidly spread out to seriously effect everybody

Your valuable contribution, analysis and examination just goes to show how important a group mind is in really understanding what the Super-consciousness/ God cosmic mind call it what we like is trying to convey to we mortal humans, so often deaf to this eternal voice. We must try to understand the symboloism as you pointed out.

At first hand I also just saw the first layer of this multi- dimensional dream message, but it may also have many other possible warnings imbedded for us to see how we can avoid the consequences of wrong decisions actions etc, that could have disastrous consequences if not headed to in time.  To us in particular and mankind in general

This applies down to our personal lives up to nation and world decisions. Like Island South Africa has been plagued by hate, violence, and the so-called justifiable violence by the self-serving so-called good guys only resulted in more violence. indeed a runaway chain effect much like the dream. When the initiators of the violence, from either side, bounces back on them they shield themselves by even using the bodies of their so called friends in arms, (suicide bombers just one example)

Varga , this new pathway of thinking about the significance of the dream vision was opened to me after reading your well thought out analyses of this multi-dimensional message, that this vision of the night was trying to bring over to the whole forum, not just me.

You have  prompted me to reexamine the dream and see if there are not more hidden warnings in this message, or maybe not just warning but "teachings" of how to conduct our lives and how we can contribute to the good of humanity each in our own small way.

Like Alysia said meditate on peace and love and send light energy into the darkness still lurking somewhere in the human psyche.

Alan

Thanks Alan. I wasn't sure if I wasn't being a little provocative. It'd be interesting to hear of any more insights that you get.

The collective belief transmitted by our popular media, political system and culture that you can make peace with violence is something that really throws me. I was involved in a US based non spiritual forum with members mostly in the 25 - 45 age group pre and post 9/11, and in the run up to the invasion of Iraq, and found it really distressing.

I tried to speak out (by putting the teaching I'd had in normal language while treading on eggshells) in purely factual and non political terms, but after several months of nibbling away ended being threatened with all sorts of spectacular nastiness. The moderates were eventually forced into keeping their heads down. The people there (mostly SE US states) were so heavily conditioned to rally behind whatever the great leader said, and to talk in cliches. The news reporting they were receiving seemed to be pure propaganda.

With a couple of others we predicted most of what has come to pass. I suppose that the good news is that sneaking looks in more recently shows that even those who were most aggressive are now seeing things in a different light  - are now against that leadership. But much of the same aggression and focus on being top dog through smart ass repartee is still there.

One more thought. I discounted the Joburg like skyline in your dream on the basis that it was probably your mind using an image it had to hand. But could it be that it was a teaching or some sort of prediction regarding that city too?

Was that skyline an image you have come across before? If yes, then its use may just have been a matter of convenience...

Reading this whole thread, it's clear we do have a group consciousness acting, where one person fills out the thought of the other. I commend Alan for even posting such a vision/dream as it was a waker-upper.

Vajra, yesterday while considering Alan's vision, the phrase passed through my mind Fighting fire with fire. now I see you have said that also. I know fireman do it this way, and with varying success rate, but it depends on which way the wind is blowing and can't often predict wind currents. so I didn't put the thought out. just was surprised we are all on the same level of thought.

I like your well thought post too Ian, what I had said about starting a war to end a war, was the same thoughts, but you took them and ran off with it and explained it so it just became more clear to me, and with the clarity, I feel not so alone in doing my small part step by step, whatever that turns out to be.

I do not grasp politics well, and all the senseless violence in the world, and the way the media will always try to sell sensationalism which might have very little facts to that..but Ian has an understanding of politics. I just saw you as the great leavening spirit, encased in a body, doing your bit.

each of us do our part, in whatever way is shown. each little bit helps..thats why I mentioned, if you don't know what to do, and feel so small, 10 minutes a day, just to ask, is a start.
Last night spirit sent me to a dying man. He is dying all alone. I took some of his pain home with me to transmute and said what comforting words I was led to. This is what we each can do..reach out to one person at a time, then if everybody gets the idea they would be reaching out to a single person as well, then we can be braver if we're together on what kind of world we could create if we knew it was that easy.
:-*

R said: I suggested that we conduct a little test and send love to you at 1:00 today so we could see if you would feel it. I guess you didn't.
____

I didn't know you were conducting a test R. We usually do the sending of love over in the PE thread. Sorry perhaps I try to catorgorize this place because I already know it's not a test for me, it really works.

I didn't especially feel anything yesterday; this may be because I was not receptive at the time or preoccupied. In my experience when love is sent, if the recipient does not feel anything, then what is sent is saved for them until they are able to receive it. It's not a futile offering in other words.

In Rick's case, where healing love was sent after his motorcycle accident, the healing forces took a full two days to finish it's work, but by the time he was healed, he knew without a doubt he was healed quicker than otherwise through weeks of time.

Also I'm already so much daily on a love high maybe my quota is all filled up and no more fits in there right now. If there's any love sent to me, you can bet I save it for a rainy day.

thanks for the thoughts, don't you like whats happening on this board these days?  :)

Hello friends,

Reading all your posts again, brought me to realize "that those that live by the sword will die by the sword".

Like Vajre, I don not want to plunge into the political. However, if we look at the Iraq war and assume President Bush knew exactly the threat that country posed to the American people and acted in good faith and good conscious the war was still a disaster.

Violence begets violence, and I can never rap my mind around or reconcile the scenario of two nice young boy soldiers from both sides, who do not even remotely know each other, having to kill one another because of a decision some unknown remote leader. They then have to live with this trauma the rest of their lives, while the leader basks in a perceived victory.

The old quote, when good men do nothing evil prospers” and even when good men do something such as apposing Hitler, evil still seems to get the upper hand. Millions of American and British boys had to die in that unspeakable holocaust of the 2nd world war. Roosevelt and Churchill were both amazingly good and wonderful men, but their decisions lead to millions dying.

Then we have the case of the Atomic bombing of Hiroshima, who was accountable to God, the pilots who flew the planes, Tibbets and co or President Truman who made the almost impossible decisions to nuclear bomb those doomed cities.

Take the case of two seemingly good peoples both undergoing a desperate famine with their people both dying in their thousands for the almost vanished food resources. They look at a food source equally remote from each of them that are owned by no one.

So they both pray to the same god for help for the exact same reason, both are perceiving themselves to be the good guys!! Where does this leave poor god in this dilemma

“In God we trust” DO WE??  

Love

alan

It is my belief that dreams at night, like our waking dream during the day, is a mirror of (what else) our self. I think you had a bad dream, Alan, and it reflects aspects of (what else) you. A Course in Miracles suggests none of it, waking or asleep, is real. The prologue says, "Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists. Herein lies the peace of God."

Just as you knew you were dreaming when you awoke that next morning, so will you know you are dreaming even now when you awaken and that the world we look upon is merely a device for that purpose.

And so, I would encourage you to put your mind and thoughts on what you want, not what you do not. Perhaps your dreams would then refelct your desires rather than your fears.

Great Love and Light,

Thomas

Excuse me if this is too long, or again if it's somehow 'political'.  :)  ;) Thanks for the opportunity to suggest the basis for an alternative positive vision though!!

I guess Alan that as we all know violence escalates.  When the exchanges get going they are generally only ended by total defeat/victory or perhaps by stalemate.

The only way it normally can happen without the parties fighting themselves to a standstill (whether at individual, societal or national levels) is when one is brave enough, insightful enough and skillful enough to risk foregoing returning a blow to extend the hand of peace.

But this almost never happens. It requires a titanic act of foresight and will given that our entire culture and our lifelong conditioning legitimises violence, and is structured around rule of the fittest and winner takes all. Germany for example fought to almost total destruction in WW2, and still the leadership remained in power. The conditioning was so strong that people obeyed orders right to the end.

We don't normally train children in a right view, and to have the courage to set out to live it, we instead train them in conformity, and in the dog eat dog view. To as a result be fearful enough to need to dominate and outfight the other guy, but able to rationalise this as being not just OK  but actually  praiseworthy.

The popular culture (films, computer games, books, sports, myths) rams home the glamourisation of violence and winning (the zero sum game - getting ahead at the other guy's cost) to kids from almost before they can walk.

Business functions by rule of the fittest.

The law is trial by verbal combat between opposing sides in front of judges, the winner again takes all.

The caring professions often work on the basis of knowing better than the patient or family what's best  for them, and will force 'treatment' if needed.

The police 'keep the peace' using force. (????)

We have military 'peacekeepers'.

The religious sing 'onward christian soldiers', and continue to ask God to 'bless our just war'.

Society is conditioned to accord respect and status to military service.

The military itself in training seeks to break down by aggressive means normal human empathy in recruits and to replace it with a brainwashed readiness to kill.

The state/nation is permitted to use the most extreme forms of compulsion and violence in order to collect taxes, force compliance and maintain its rule.

Those teaching an alternative view risk being seen as a threat to society.

Our politicians in the selfish pursuit of power almost never give leadership through adoption of a higher view - they inevitably pander to the big vested interests (military/industrial and related) that put them in power, and to the lowest common denominator in society. They've even invented a whole language to slip war past those of us with scruples, and collaborate with the media to get a platform - talking of defence, pre-emptive defensive attack (???) and relentlessly hyping fear.

Pandering to the lowest common denominator inevitably means responding to or manipulating the fears of the many still stuck in or at least not wholly released from a selfish dog eat dog view of life, and their demands that they be 'defended' or their interests looked after no matter how unrealistic their fears or at what the cost to others.

When there's a winner there's always a loser. This is the zero sum game. Co-operation  in contrast makes possible outcomes where everybody does better.

This is unlikely to change while we wait for our leaders to act, and while we remain bound by the delusional belief system our cultures conditions most us into accepting. We're only ever going to see movement in the right direction when more and more people individually move beyond this conditioning to 'see' what's right, and become willing to in a practical way live out their convictions in normal life.

This is a change that's going to have to come from the bottom up, and will only be delivered when enough of us see past our conditioning to no longer be duped into the suspension of our own knowing.

This means our 'extending the hand of peace' as above, our taking the initiative in trying to live wisely through the alternative value system that is love.

None of this is original. Some spiritual teachers (people like Gjurdjieff and Richard Rose) have taught explicitly of the fact that spiritual development entails transcending these belief systems. It's implicit in the teaching of all the great traditions.

This in many ways is perhaps the fleshing out of some of what the hoped for step up in the consciousness of mankind might entail - a listing of some of the outmoded attitudes we might hope to leave behind.

It'd be so much more powerful Thomas if we could move it on to a set of positive developments to aim for all right, what we might replace it with.

I'm cautious about Utopian theories of how things should be given humanity's dodgy history in this regard. I wonder what the process is, if there's anything we can do other than be patient and try to stay on view and influence...

Thomas nothing real can harm you? Man!! You must be an Alien from another world sent here to solve mankind’s problems,

When a tornado or tsunami rips apart your home and kills your family you will have to rethink this strange statement, my obviously non-friend

Vajra
Thank you for your helpful comments, we concur on every point, violence begat violence. Dialogue and more dialogue is the way to solve deputes.

By the way Vajre, this was not just a nightmare about some subjective fear as the above person said, it was a warning and teaching.

I have had other dreams that came exactly to pass, the forum will remember just one of them, when I said a dam would overflow and many would die. Look at what is happening now in China...

I will look it up and bring it forward


Regards

Alan

Hi Alan. I guess to be fair to Thomas the quote from ACIM to the effect that 'nothing unreal can hurt you' is a matter of perspective. From the absolute viewpoint (which i think is that of this quote) we're immortal and cannot be damaged by this sort of event.

On the other hand from the physical/relative viewpoint we very definitely can get hurt.

The point is that  as we've said the violence in the world flows from what is probably an over identification with the latter view (which basically holds that death is the end), and a failure to appreciate or to intuit the former. (which does not)

It's very hard to show compassion, or to put the fate of others ahead of your own if you're stuck in the  solely physical/individual view....

Regarding the below, I don't believe that wisdom comes through making a bunch of afirmations. All we do, whether we realize it or not, is create a belief system when we repeat a bunch afirmations we found in a book. If we want to grow, we don't need to add, we need to let go. The more we do so the more we'll see that we can't dismiss our fellow human beings as a bunch of illusions.

Sure a day will come when each of us will move on to a higher realm. But until that day happens for all, we need to act as if suffering is real, or the healing that is required in order for perfection to manifest will never come to be.

Just so there is no confusion, I don't mean to suggest that Vajra makes afirmations. He doesn't seem like that kind of person. Obviously he's looking for ways to let go.



wrote on May 27^th, 2008 at 7:39pm:

Hi Alan. I guess to be fair to Thomas the quote from ACIM to the effect that 'nothing unreal can hurt you' is a matter of perspective. From the absolute viewpoint (which i think is that of this quote) we're immortal and cannot be damaged by this sort of event. On the other hand from the physical/relative viewpoint we very definitely can get hurt. The point is that  as we've said the violence in the world flows from what is probably an over identification with the latter view (which basically holds that death is the end), and a failure to appreciate or to intuit the former. (which does not) It's very hard to show compassion, or to put the fate of others ahead of your own if you're stuck in the  solely physical/individual view....

R said: Regarding the below, I don't believe that wisdom comes through making a bunch of afirmations. All we do, whether we realize it or not, is create a belief system when we repeat a bunch afirmations we found in a book. If we want to grow, we don't need to add, we need to let go. The more we do so the more we'll see that we can't dismiss our fellow human beings as a bunch of illusions.

Sure a day will come when each of us will move on to a higher realm. But until that day happens for all, we need to act as if suffering is real
_________


Affirmations alone will not do much for character building. ACIM does have a 365 day lesson plan on understanding where the thought is leading, in each day's affirmation.

It's hard work to understand each one. Mainly, after the year is up, and the text read, ACIM says to forget this book. go and live, and test out what you learned.

the problem is we get entrenched in our respective belief systems, until we display habitual behavior. in that case we can become predictable people. even down to predictions such as the possibilities that Alan's vision could be forming in the ozone...negative energies create that, of the combination of all the people. as we refuse to be open to other's perspectives, their education, their books, their culture, whatever it is, then this is negative energy versus positive, what is PUL, what is compassion, what is to be done, verus what is to be destroyed. it is not our job to tear down, which would be like war.

We shouldn't fall into reactionary modes of thinking, at least not here, where we are trying to build something positive, where all have a voice and that voice is respected, even if disagreed with.

Back to the benefit of affirmations, personally speaking, they would not be good all by themselves, but must be read with the text, which helps to explain what they are leading to...to help you realize what true forgiveness entails, which always leads to PUL. Forgiveness will clear out a mind of negative buildup, and allow a new day to form, where we can create the peace around us we probably all agree, that we want peace, not war.

It is clear that people must see before they believe. It is also true that folks must believe before they see. that is the usefulness of affirmations that they provide a doorway into meditation, where within mediation guidance is available to many great truths, which we already KNOW but have to remind ourselves by studying the truth.

Go and get an experience says ACIM, test it out.  Reveal love behind everything. Because Love is what you are. Beliefs are transitory things just as this world is transitory.

I am just passing through. So are you. In one day, we never know, we may not go online tomorrow, so treat each other better, and don't say cruel things, like "you're obviously not my friend"

Alan, that was mean. I would never think you would say that to Thomas. Put yourself in his shoes for just a second and you'll know what I mean.

Forgiveness is necessary so we can always make a forward movement, but together, how else can the human race evolve unless we are all together on the same page?

love to you all, you rascals ::)

Ugh!  How'd we get on affirmations again ?!
::) Alysia and recoverer, haven't we heard this all before?

Double Ugh  ! !  How do my beloved heroes not befriend each other !?

Thomas, you are a retriever of heroic abilities, but you do not live in an area that is surrounded by so much mayhem and violence as Alan does. If you did, no doubt your world view would be affected by it.

Alan, you have truly heroic spiritual experiences, but no one else has met the entities you have and so cannot share the overview you have. Please befriend us all as we struggle for better experiences and understanding.

PUL

Regarding bad dreams and rascals,
it is comforting to imagine that one "day" you'll wake up from this life like you have been waking up in that life from a dream. Now, let's say we had a quite hateful life with lots of dead enemies. So now, as we are awakened from that life-dream to the glorious truth, we would hug our enemies and laugh, what rascals we had been in the last life, and that it was quite a bomb.
 Is it that way? Maybe.

Spooky

Hi guys.  :)  :) Re. this and some of the other threads. Not sure exactly what's going down, but how's about we lighten up a little?? Perhaps open to where we were again??

As often happens on the board we've seen a grouping of posts arrive together that explore various aspects of the 'what happens after death' question. This brings the possibility triggering a certain amount of edginess in us all, especially if what's said can possibly be read as threatening our beliefs in any way.

If so maybe we need to just be careful about how we respond.

There's in my experience always been such a positive, caring, accommodating and helpful vibe on the board. Let's not lose it, or any of the very wonderful established contributors. Nor put off anybody needing help that might wish to post but get put off by any harsh vibe that might creep in.

I can't help feeling that we're in roughly the same place on most of the topics that have come up, but that we're occasionally somehow misunderstanding or getting focused on minor differences....