Dear Friends-

As I was beginning to rant in another post about explorations and the point of doing the retrievals for me, it occured to me to inquire about other people's experiences regarding the other things that have been brought to my attention while exploring, and much of which was begun at Exploration 27 (at Monroe) in February 2008.

For some time I have felt the nature of the gateway or wormhole or doorway or whatever it is between the various levels has been dissolving and changing. More frequently I find the perspective of being in a still spot and having it all move and change around me, like I reached over and changed the channel on the Holo-Deck and then opened my eyes on an entirely different channel. In any case, the nature of these passages has changed for me, gotten a whole lot less distinct and separate and more a continuum. I set out to explore the BSTs (belief system territories per Bruce's books, Focus 23/24/25/26 in Monroe speak). I was struck with the extent of them, particularly the lower bardos, Focus 23 even, and 24, too. The variety and extent of the barely-there and self-punishment of hells was quite fascinating to me, and it seemed like I had visited many of them briefly myself in this and other lifetimes. I ended up in these areas while seeking to do retrievals on members of my "I-there" or "We-There", attemtpt to assist my I-There is collecting and reassembling our entire splintered One Self so that we might move on to more exciting and fulfilling things than endless reincarnation on the physical planes of C-1. My interest is moving on.

Initially this was very fruitful, particularly using pure and unbridled unconditional love and forgiveness. After all, I was loving and forgiving aspects of my own One Self. I usually went with guidance that I would acquire as I counted up, or sometimes got from Focus 27 on request. Later I worked on what I might call higher-vibrational levels. No hells, but some very  rigid collective thought-form areas populated by groups more than individuals (unlike the lower realms where I found more small groups and individuals). These, too, were retrievals for my I-There. These territories were extensive and populated (if that is the term).

But lately I am finding all these areas between 21 and 27 becoming less dense, less extensive, less populated. I am told they are being "cleared up to 27" and also find 27 MUCH more extensive and expansive/expanding than it has been. It used to be a place of stillness for me, and I find it MUCH more energized and populated. By the same token, beings with whom I have visited extensively on Focus 27 are moving to higher vibrational reals as well. My mother, who formerly "worked" in the Healing and Rejuventaion Center is no longer there, and is found more and more frequently farther on--- like around 33/34 for me. The Gathering (both Bruce and Bob Monroe wrote about it) is 34/35. I find my "I-there" someplace like 42 or so, and beyond that I sort of lose my way as yet...... but I do know it keeps on and one.

So to my inquiry---

Anyone else finding this thinning? As there are fewer beings there, there is less thought to sustain the illusion and these towns and cities are thinning and dissolving back in to the quantum field from which the thoughts collapsed them in the frist place. Like the path to 27 is being rebuilt and reinforced so peole don't take so many little detours along the way, and 27 is growing in preparation.

All of my exploration has been about the Earth Changes for which The Gathering is occuring. These times and these changes are upon us. I got some truly startling and almost unbelieveable information exploring The Gathering and interacting with the energies there, and look forward to more at Starline (at Monroe) in July. Such information is for a different post if anyone is interested.

Last time I posted about "beyond 27" there was not much response.

So-- are the BSTs being cleared?

Great Love and Light, friends.

Thomas

Hi Thomas. Nice post. I can't comment other than to say that that seems like an incredibly positive happening presuming it checks out...

glad to see you posting for us TG! :) You and Ginny who just returned here are very good retrievers and so I'm thrilled to hear your accounts and I know we are all One, it's becoming more clear with each day.
before I respond to your post thought it pertinent to confirm something for your confirmation you are who you say you are, in case the newbies think differently!  8-)

I mean if my opinion counts, lol. we do support each other in our oneness either here/there.  I wanted to remind all the new people here, whenever ANYONE posts here, they are giving a gift of themselves and we should honor it, no matter we don't understand a word they are saying perhaps.
this way, we can slide into the shift in consciousness gracefully instead of screaming for mercy.

the confirmation I'm giving forth of for you...a while back we worked on a retrieval together. You had noted it was suicide. I wasn't sure but I had seen something that looked like murder.
the party who inquired of our services has finally fessed up that it was suicide as you said. Before she would not say, preferring to make us work for that info. there appears to be a massive amount of guilt she deals with now. I am trying to help. just wanted to give you a kudo, not that you need it.

Your main question to us, who do retrievals and/or exploration is whether we think the lower astrals or BST's are being cleared?

Yes, this is a part of the plan and has been underway for years, steadily; each retrieval done on an individual alleviates some of the collective garbage thoughts/feelings out there, part of the grid sound gets mellowed out, creating more light pathways to the higher levels of truth and away from the self hells which are dissolved into nothing at that point.

As I see it, we are all one, and creating of the Grid/matrix/collective, and it can be symbolized as a massive energy cloud/sound laying closest to the Earth of solidity. Just before a storm, it can be seen as gathering intensity before breaking on Earth's shore, some event, or Earth change.

Individuals, here and there, like yourself, will act as conductors, or points of light. we are all in the right place, is what I picked up. As the build up of intensive change occurs, individuals will, in their own towns and cities on the Earth C1, take in the negative and push it out cleansed to those around them, transmuting or disengaging the fear that will be generated so no one gets stuck and finds that pathway of light you were discussing. This is all unconscious activity for the most part, but we are waking up to where we go at night slowly but surely.

as an aside, sort of, I was privileged to act as retriever for my own mother back in 2006. I noticed the BST I was in, was a bustling, heavily populated city, much like I would imagine the streets of New York look like, although I've never been there physically. Everybody was moving fast then; walking somewhere, jostling each other even. My mom was a head in the crowd. I needed to get her out of there. She needed to find me too.
I had a retriever station/apt there to my surprise. I was told another me, was always manning that station, parking people there and then going for guides to move them on.
I don't know what level this was of BST, but it had something to do with folks who are industrious, yet it wasn't focus 27 exactly, where I imagine has many sub levels, perhaps it was focus 26, at any rate mother was moving on and needed a little help upwards, or onwards and had earned the lift due to her service values. It's difficult to imagine astral cities not there anymore for the recently departed, rather I would see the clearing as not a total clearing, as there's always free will to be there,
I would see more easily a widening pathways to higher thought being accomplished, more road signs so to speak, the path made smoother, that sort of thing.

The main thing I'm here for is to make sure no one panics during these Earth changes..we all wanted to be here for the show anyway..somebody has to keep their head...

yes, I would be VERY interested in Starline. we don't get enough TMI posters. you are one of a handful who has come here over the years. matter of fact I've been on a perpetual rant that they won't post here. so that's why there's not much response to your beyond 27 post.

it's my personal observation TMI grads simply don't work here; all the more reason I value your input, and hey! we have no idea really who is benefitting from our posts, where or when, but I'm certain that it all helps to get us where we want to be..a peaceful world with a cessation of killing due to more enlightened behavior towards one another...is that too much to ask? ;)

An afterthought regarding wormhole or doorway or as TG says "whatever it is."

I think it can be likened to focus 21, called the Bridge to the Afterlife.

Awhile back I had an Obe where I began my trek towards the bridge. I saw only a few others ahead of me on this bridge, as I walked across the sand (the ocean was there too) others joined me on the left and right, we were all straggling towards the bridge with an air of great relief! and some excitement. I stopped to brush some sand off the face of a fallen comrade. I wanted him to go with me. he had said he would come later on. I think he's on the bridge now.

I see the bridge as illustrative of the shift in consciousness into a type of 4rth dimensional thinking, which is where the two worlds as we see it now, becomes One World. This entails direct knowing and a sense of not having to think, not having conflicts in the mind. just a knowing.

I will list the focus levels for newbies again, and Monroe's philosophy which is 4rth dimensional consciousness as I see it. you all should realize these are only words to try to describe a shift occurring on the earth right now, doorways, bridges, 4rth dimensions, 5th dimensions, focus levels, these are tools of thought pointing to our greater reality without explaining that greater reality. A while back I also saw this board operating as a retrieval base from 5th dimensional plane and from where many messages were sent out as well. it was a service based plane.


Focus Levels:
Focus 10 -- Mind awake, body asleep

Focus 12 -- Expanded mind

Focus 15 -- No time, view past lives, future lives

Focus 21 -- The bridge to the afterlife

Focus 22 -- place where Alzheimers patients,
drug addicts, alcoholics, etc. hang
out

Focus 23 -- Afterlife where souls get stuck

Focus 24, 25, 26 -- Belief system territories

Focus 27 -- The Park, TMI There, Reception
Center, etc.
your attention is a function of your energy being-creative
your mind simply responds to your attention

There is no beginning, there is no end,
  There is only change.
There is no teacher, there is no student,
  There is only remembering.
There is no good, there is no evil,
  There is only expression.
There is no union, there is no sharing,
  There is only one.
There is no joy, there is no sadness,
  There is only love.
There is no greater, there is no lesser,
  There is only balance.
There is no statis, there is no entropy,
  There is only motion.
There is no wakefulness, there is no sleep,
  There is only being.
There is no limit, there is no chance,
  There is only a plan.

Well, I want to thank you for these excellent posts.  I am one of those newbies who is enjoying reading them.  I know about the consciousness shift, but I sometimes like a whole lot of back-up from others who have more experience than I am aware of having right now.  I don't get into fear, but sometimes lose sight of what is happening when I hear about one disaster after another and everything else.  It is really great to hear that the belief systems territory may be  clearing out.  I wonder if some of us do work at night and may not be aware of it?  Anyway, I for one will return to read this thread if anything is added.

Thanks so much,
SHSS   :)

Hi SHSS and welcome here. Some lucid dreams give a glimpse to soul travels during the night, even if they are shrouded in symbols that need interpreting when u awaken, it is a glimpse of the areas you work within with your greater awareness.

C1 stands for waking consciousness and is known to be a limited perspective type of area. Your greater being can be seen as your eternal spirit connected to the collective mind area, where we are all One.
Your greater self, as Mind, does not need to sleep. It can be seen by sensitives as a form hanging close by the body while it sleeps, yet most often it will be flying to classes, groups, friends, etc. physical reality is only a shallow reflection of this other world.
You have only to set an intention and you will start to remember where you go at night. but be persistent and believe that you can remember.

and you already know something...be fearless. to be brave. love, alysia

Hi Thomas,
since I started with TMI-style explorations, the tendencies in my experience are

-- I feel less urge for doing retrievals. The latest stage in doing retrievals was doing group retrievals, being in F23 and sending out a signal of invitation to go up with me, then having the feeling of a some persons with me, and up it goes.
-- I had discovered that there is a region in F27 which is for those who move on. It's  not longer really there to provide a form/institutions, but to provide calmness and freedom for those who take the step into different, less human-shaped regions, and maybe partly living already there. The impression of this part of F27 is, it is a vast plane with light like from a sunrise, and here and there a someone, meditating. Maybe we can take this as a region between F27 and something different.
-- The differentiation in F27 has decreased, so that it doesn't really matter whether I'm at The Park, at one of the centers, or at My Place. It's more like asking for something, and it's there in a less shaped, less concrete manner, rather than moving around and seeing different areas.
-- I have found on two or three occasions that there is a both-side-contact between high regions of the BSTs (F26 or so) and F27, so in some cases, there is no that strict borderline.

I'm not able to judge if these are objective tendencies, or if it's a change in my perception.

Spooky

tjecks and alysia,

I interesting first thread on quantum physics as it relates to the metaphysical.

Indeed we stand still while all existence revolves around us, from our perpective even God would vanish if we did.

tjecks quote


Quote:

Anyone else finding this thinning? As there are fewer beings there, there is less thought to sustain the illusion and these towns and cities are thinning and dissolving back in to the quantum field from which the thoughts collapsed them in the frist place. Like the path to 27 is being rebuilt and reinforced so peole don't take so many little detours along the way, and 27 is growing in preparation

alysia reply to tjeck


Quote:

Your main question to us, who do retrievals and/or exploration is whether we think the lower astrals or BST's are being cleared? Yes, this is a part of the plan and has been underway for years, steadily; each retrieval done on an individual alleviates some of the collective garbage thoughts/feelings out there, part of the grid sound gets mellowed out, creating more light pathways to the higher levels of truth and away from the self hells which are dissolved into nothing at that point

post of mine in Blinks thread after alan...........


Quote:

Failed souls that have done wrong will be banished for a while or converted to mindlessness and regenerated, successful souls will retain their unique awareness within the “Infinite Cosmic ,Mind

”.

The above was my attempt in explaning this clearing, is this wrong in anyway ?

alan

Hi Alan, your quote: Failed souls that have done wrong will be banished for a while or converted to mindlessness and regenerated, successful souls will retain their unique awareness within the “Infinite Cosmic ,Mind.
_______

then u r asking if you said it wrong, to explain the clearing TJ was talking about.  In a way I can see you are talking about the clearing also. It's just the words strike fear into certain people, the way it's worded. words like banished, mindlessness, failed, this generates a type of preaching attitude, we have to get beyond somehow, because on a spirit level those seen to be successful on Earth plane can at the same time be seen to be unsuccessful to accomplish their intentions for incarnation on a spiritual level.

I think personally if I were God, I would not banish anyone or convert anyone to mindlessness, but I like the part of regeneration. I can see what you said about banished "for awhile."

this might be illustrative of the "sleep period" I saw where the life review is undergone and those realms of life we identified with strongly as being a part of us, are stripped away as not important. but banishment is hard to fathom as a part of a natural process of soul evolvement.

It also sounds like a machine like process, dehumanizing the soul. too cut and dried. I think while you are considering what you have seen out there, remember the religious term, that of redemption, what that really means to us. it may have some bearing on this talk, as redemption is all inclusive.

while I don't resonate well with your words, I know where your heart is, and it's in the right place, and I will agree with you only this far; there is free will, part of that free will is the urge to fight and increase the ego..these are those who choose this experience, they are still free to do so, within turf given to them for that purpose, to evolve as they will.
But I don't consider that banishment or reduced to mindlessless, but I could see these younger sparks put into a new dimension of the movie, or another planet even.
however I'm not knowing about other planets..just that it's quite possible to self destruct one and that we are being watched so we don't blow the place up with weaponry.

thank you for your visions, I'm sure you're on the right track and we speak basically the same values. I think though humans, young or old souls, whatever have this propensity to change their minds so quickly, to be transformed that it becomes difficult to say who's wearing the white hat and who's wearing the black hat, as an explanation for what's going to happen and so to predict the future accurately.

Remember Monroe: "there is no bad, there is no good."  What we do is change ourselves, then the other guy changes as well, because we don't resist evil, we don't see evil, we don't make it real that way."  The evil we see is or has been something we knew before, that it was us who did the killing before and now it's us who want to change that by only thinking of what is true, what is being spirit led and spirit filled, apart from religious terminology.

it's essentially a new consciousness on the Earth I spoke of in another place. We can call it 4rth dimensional consciousness, or just the shift in consciousness, but it's here, not in the future, not on the other side. It simply entails PUL, or a huge cooperative effort to save the planet from destructive forces starting with just you and me.

Alysia wrote "But I don't consider that banishment or reduced to mindlessless, but I could see these younger sparks put into a new dimension of the movie, or another planet even.
however I'm not knowing about other planets..just that it's quite possible to self destruct one and that we are being watched so we don't blow the place up with weaponry.


Remember Monroe: "there is no bad, there is no good."  What we do is change ourselves, then the other guy changes as well, because we don't resist evil, we don't see evil, we don't make it real that way."  The evil we see is or has been something we knew before, that it was us who did the killing before and now it's us who want to change that by only thinking of what is true, what is being spirit led and spirit filled, apart from religious terminology."

Alysia, regarding your above comments to Alan, if you consider Bruce Moen's viewpoint, some souls do get banished to mindlessness when they are disconnected from a disk because it becomes apparent that they will never move on to the light.  This suggests that there is bad, because there are some souls that don't get to the point where they get to experience perfection for all of eternity. If what Bruce wrote is true, how many souls get banished in such a way? If it is done on a percentage basis and an infinite number of souls exist, then an infinite number will be banished, because no matter how small of a percentage is involved, A x infinity = infinity.  That is unless an infinite number of souls exist, but manifestation was designed so only a minimal number of souls incarnate in a manner that could potentially lead to eternal destruction.

Another possibility is that an infinite number of souls "haven't" been created. This is hard to imagine if source being is infinite.

I can't say whether some souls get banished, because I haven't discovered the answer one way or the other. Some sources say that no soul ever gets banished.

I don't mean to suggest that somebody is passing out false information. I've found that sources that seem to be sincere and honest contradict each other at times. Perhaps the spirit World intentionally gives different messages to different messengers with the understanding that different people need to receive different messages according to where they are at.   The key is to provide each person with something he or she can work with.

If the below comment is true, perhaps it isn't a negative thing. It seems to state that if a Soul reaches a point where it can't be healed, its faulty memories are cleared so it can get a new start. This is diffferent than the viewpoint Bruce presented, when he suggested that a lost soul's energy will fade away and be absorbed by the other spirits who abide in the lower realm it abides in.

"Failed souls that have done wrong will be banished for a while or converted to mindlessness and regenerated, successful souls will retain their unique awareness within the “Infinite Cosmic ,Mind."

IMO, because so many of us have been brought up in religions, or we have other selves that may be stuck in these beliefs as we speak, religious under or over tones seem to seep into just about everything we can imagine.  God somehow punishing or sending failed souls to some sort of hell or recycling center is something I cannot buy at all.  I also do not accept the idea of karma as punishment of any kind.

Love,
SHSS  :)

Alysia, regarding your above comments to Alan, if you consider Bruce Moen's viewpoint, some souls do get banished to mindlessness when they are disconnected from a disk because it becomes apparent that they will never move on to the light.
_______

Bruce also said it was a rare occurrence.
____
R said:
This suggests that there is bad, because there are some souls that don't get to the point where they get to experience perfection for all of eternity.
____

We are still in 3 dimensional consciousness as a whole. When we begin the 4rth dimensional consciousness (more of us) we can see there is only an experience here; we can see we have extreme examples of deviation from misuse of free will. These are played up in the media for sensational value; however consider that the media would have no news unless it's bad news. that's what I mean about we are still operating from good/bad synthesis.
that something bad happened so something good could happen later, is the way I view my own life, in an overview, thus there is no bad, there is no good, if indeed guidance was operating, this can be seen in the life review, that there is cause and effect eternally, and free will just means we learn to choose rather than be reactive.
there are no more victim mentalities from a higher perspective, as all agreed to be here and participate. PUL begins to operate from a higher consciousness during the shift.
If you look at people as being a degree of that 4rth dimensional consciousness, then you see evolution of the soul as all of us having our placement according to our willingness to work on ourselves, and let grace (spirit)  do the rest.
I have a little story to tell. A man was a heavy drinker. He died. Several retrievers came to move him to his afterlife station. He didn't want to go but was instructed he'd probably like it where they took him, perhaps to see loved ones. He finally agreed and the three of them began to rise into the light towards focus 27 most likely. As they rose, the man had another body which tore loose from his soul body and all looked at this other body as it was to stay on the lower astral planes, while the man's true self went with the retrievers; briefly the party followed it to see where it went; it went into a bar, attached itself to a physical man drinking at the bar, and began to imbide of the fumes and "high" of the man in the bar, whispering for him to drink more.

and these are known as negs, or attachments. Most people with an addiction, are not even aware there are such things happening. this is why our criminals will say they heard a voice telling them to do something evil.

this is basically the lower astral which will be speeded up to dissolve these thought forms which have a certain degree of remembrance,  of who they were in physical life. This is what they builded up; they sat at a bar drinking, they built up "a false self."

the false self is not eternal, it is not essence, it is not a soul. It is something we created as co-creators and serves no real purpose to be returning to the disc. It's not a fruit of the soul. It's just like a thought form, a desire form of low grade intelligence and many of these are also like what we call a ghost, yet all ghosts are not negs, some are spirits attached to their houses or a truamatic happenstance, they can be retrieved to a higher level in that case.

over time insubstantial negs or thought forms which have this temporary life dissolve into nothing. I call them floaters when they begin to lose consciousness and break up. Remember they are not real souls, they are aspects of our creative function. These are often found in  the lower astrals, or the hell BSTs.

What was good and true and loving in the drunk man did go to his just reward, which in his case just to be with his family he might consider that a reward, because they loved him and love is what saves a soul, or is what is saved. his family would have been his disc members who had helped him plan his life experience and participated with him.
R said:
If it is done on a percentage basis and an infinite number of souls exist, then an infinite number will be banished, because no matter how small of a percentage is involved, A x infinity = infinity.
____
I don't understand your equation. sorry.
Infinity and banishment are not compatible concepts to me. I understand banishment to mean many mansions, many BST's, many stations of beingness, and degrees evolving into a myriad of choices to become, and universes where the rules are different than ELS.
_____
R said:
That is unless an infinite number of souls exist, but manifestation was designed so only a minimal number of souls incarnate in a manner that could potentially lead to eternal destruction.
____
I sort of agree, that only a certain number of serial killers incarnate during each historical period, but I don't see eternal destruction was ever a real possibility, unless that is like an alternate reality that happened, where this particular me, was not stationed, I could see planets exploding, but since the soul is eternal in its essence I would see the destruction of a planet as simply another step in evolution designed to point out what doesn't work so god beings can go back to the drawing table and begin again this marvelous experiment called life. ok, so it's not always marvelous, but change is the only absolute if you think about it.
_____
R said:
Another possibility is that an infinite number of souls "haven't" been created. This is hard to imagine if source being is infinite.
____
we don't know, but I've read about this theory, souls are birthed on the other side before incarnating here, or on the planet of their intentions. It's not too hard to imagine if you consider the human body can reproduce after it's own kind, why not souls reproducing after it's own kind, because this planet is suppose to be a shadow of the universe, or reflection, as above, so below.

One thing I would never waste my time trying to think of in terms of what infinity is, or where the edges of our universe is, because we cannot imagine that in C1, defined as limited being; however, we can go in our thoughts many places to explore.
_____
R said:
I can't say whether some souls get banished, because I haven't discovered the answer one way or the other. Some sources say that no soul ever gets banished.
_____
From what I've gathered, one can banish one's self into it's own hell place. Buried guilts will cause this. For instance, the guy who was addicted, where he was going, his lower desires could not go with him and so in a way, you could see the thought/body/desire body, the addiction as being banished. A friend of mine wanted to visit a hell. He found a man had put himself in a jail, and there was even a willing spirit there who wanted to play jailor. I assume, I've seen many, helpers on the other side working the BST's, clearing them out. We're not sure how it works exactly, not enough of us are doing it.
this guy who was in jail, I suspect can be persuaded to move out in time, to a higher level, first he'd have to forgive himself, whatever he did wrong, which he figures needs punishment. It might be shown to him later, some things he did which were good.

If you think about it, a lot of us are already in our self made hells. the best way I know of, is to say I'm sorry to whoever we hurt intentionally, then learn that hurting others causes us to feel guilty because frankly, we are guilty then. Thats why the bible said "if you have ought against any person, make it up to them somehow."  you don't want to get on the other side and be having your disc members up in your face telling you what you did wrong in injuring someone.   if you took pleasure in someone else's pain, this is a no no for spiritual evolvement to the higher planes.  Many times the intentions were good, but someone got injured anyway. So this can be pointed out. Any soul wants to turn over a new leaf can be aided in that very quickly.
R said:
I don't mean to suggest that somebody is passing out false information. I've found that sources that seem to be sincere and honest contradict each other at times.
___

yes, I know it's hard to discern truth from fiction sometimes. It's easier if you get on a heart path and let your heart be your guide. the heart doesn't lie. stay away from shifty eyes.. ;) they are hold outs.
_____

If the below comment is true, perhaps it isn't a negative thing. It seems to state that if a Soul reaches a point where it can't be healed, its faulty memories are cleared so it can get a new start. This is diffferent than the viewpoint Bruce presented, when he suggested that a lost soul's energy will fade away and be absorbed by the other spirits who abide in the lower realm it abides in.
____

when we talk of these things it doesn't have to be an "either/or" discussion. Something that happens to us that feels negative, later on becomes a positive, if thinking in terms of the highest good coming about. the astral form that clings unto the drinker for instance, it thinks it has beingness. I don't feel any compassion for a mindless entity such as what I see in this case. Bruce's viewpoint doesn't have to be wrong in order that another's viewpoint can be accepted as right.
the same with you and me. I tried to express to you that your viewpoint was right as well mine, which was a different viewpoint from yours, was right also, just another way of looking at it.
I think the trick is to find the common link between two viewpoints and distill the truth from that commonality.
with you and I, on another thread, I was considering how much you can love a person, which would cause you to try to find your loved one in a mirror, and the common link we have, is that she can find her loved one in the mirror of her mind, but has not attempted that yet.
However, upon occassion a real mirror becomes a temporary aide to get to the mirror of the mind, which would of course be the most desirable of the two means.
I had seen a picture of her father whispering to the medium to try the mirror one time as he was not able to make contact with her any other way and had been trying.
spirits spend a lot of time trying to figure ways to break through the veil to us, we are really dense but getting better.

u r mellowing out these days.  :)  or maybe it's just me being willing to a little further with all these words...did u ever see a more gabby woman in all your life?  :)

SHSS wrote on May 14^th, 2008 at 7:18pm:

IMO, because so many of us have been brought up in religions, or we have other selves that may be stuck in these beliefs as we speak, religious under or over tones seem to seep into just about everything we can imagine.  God somehow punishing or sending failed souls to some sort of hell or recycling center is something I cannot buy at all.  I also do not accept the idea of karma as punishment of any kind. Love, SHSS  :)

I agree we need new language for concepts besides the standard religious terms, or we could put new meaning on old words, such as atonement. I see this at at-one-ment. we are one.

I agree about karma is not punishment, for me, it was an agreement with the others I participated with, we planned the whole thing. it's just that I would have to forget I planned it, in order to have this type of drama I wanted.

Alysia:

Here's another way to put it. Different NDE people find different things. Some people say this is due to what a person is open to experiencing. It might also be a matter of what a person is willing to accept after an NDE is over.

I figure another factor determines the variance. NDE people are sort of like spiritual messengers. Different people are open to different messages. If a person has a really fundamentalist way of looking at things, he or she won't seriously consider an NDE that isn't fundamentalist.  This person will start out with an NDE that is somewhat fundamentalist, but has enough of a love message so this person will consider the love factor. This opening to love will enable this person to consider NDEs that are even less fundamentalist, which will in turn enable a person to open up to NDEs and other sources of information that are even less fundamentalist. Beings who represent the light know what people are like. Spiritual growth often needs to be a gradual process.

Therefore, whenever a person reads a source, even sources that are written by people who are clearly honest and well meaning people, this person will benefit if he or she allows his or herself to question such a source. Each person should write his or her own road map, rather than totaling relying on the road map of another. Part of the reason I like Robert Monroe and Bruce Moen, is because they seem to be people who believe that people should find out for themselves through exploration and other means.

recoverer,

I think that's a great way to put it.  My cousin had an NDE and jesus showed up for her and she felt so wonderful because she is a christian.  If I were to die and jesus or some ascended master or any other religious or new-age representative showed up, I'd freak out and run like heck.

Love,
SHSS  :)

SHSS:

I've had a number of experiences which showed me that Christ is a significant divine being, but not in a fundamentalist way. There are some NDEs which speak of him in such a loving way, there is no way he can be connected to some of the fear based ideas people have. I found that I had to go through a process of separating fundamentalist concepts from him.

One time I was shown a sequence of visual images. First I was shown a crucifix. I asked why. Then I was shown an image that is easier to describe by stating its meaning. It said, "They killed him (Jesus), they put him on display, they spotted his reputation." I figure his reputation has been spotted in various ways. One way is when they use him as a means of scaring people. I believe he is more about his love your neighbor as yourself message. Next I experienced myself pressing the high "C" note on my piano (not physically). This message meant that Christ represents the highest consciousness level there is.

I know of some other people who have had experiences with Christ, and they certainly aren't fundamentalists. They've found that Christ is a great friend. I figure that Christ set an example so we can all become light beings just as he is.





SHSS wrote on May 15^th, 2008 at 1:02pm:

recoverer, I think that's a great way to put it.  My cousin had an NDE and jesus showed up for her and she felt so wonderful because she is a christian.  If I were to die and jesus or some ascended master or any other religious or new-age representative showed up, I'd freak out and run like heck. Love, SHSS  :)

questioning a materials source is necessary for each of us R, and I agree totally the premise of TMI is upon self exploration.
Ultimately, it's the mystic journeys, such as Obe, phasing, meditation which yield up the only self credible information we can use as guidance in a world where a lack of love is expressing everywhere.
focusing on other's who discredit other's works is tunnelling into the negative end of it. Balance is to see both sides of a question and weigh the value by determining the person's intentions first behind a work.

there is the thinker. who is doing the thinking? there is nothing out there has not been thought of by another. then we have the knower. the knower does not need to think, weigh or balance anything.
the knower is at peace because the intellect is bypassed.
this way one does not run to internet sources in order to find out something. they already know.

Intentions can easily be determined when a piece of work drops out of the sky and falls into your hands because you are down on your knees dying.
each step is a sacred step of believing until you get to knowing.
We are Love in our essence. All we have to do is remove the blocks to the awareness of Love's presence.

We are now in the biggest belief system crash of all times. We need to aide each other with love and gentleness to make it easier for each other to get through these times.

I woke up this morning feeling a strange agitation..this signals to me a further revelation coming from somewhere, whether it's personal or related to the world, I can't say yet.

I do believe it's where we focus our attention right now which will yield up greater harmony in the world as we move into this shift in consciousness. The focus is on the PUL, which to mean the highest good beyond personal agendas. It is simply impossible to focus on the negative anymore. It's simply a lie.

love to you, as usual, alysia

Thanks so for all the responses. There are so few places such a topic would elicit a serious discussion (I can clear the room in a few minutes with such talk).

I especially appreciate your post, Alysia, about the Focus levels, and Bob's final riddles, too. I think that his roadmap of these levels has helped a great deal, in part by providing a common vocabulary with which to talk about it, and in part as a framework for all of us to flesh out. He used to talk about it like an Expressway, with exits here and there to areas like the BSTs and all the areas Bruce writes about in the books that led everyone here to this board.

I see such areas transcending judgement by condemning gods, and areas in the reaches of Focus 24 which were everything one might expect from the phrase "Burning Stinking Pits of Fire and Hell", too, are being cleared. These lesser versions of Heaven, these prisons of hell, these temples of the flesh--- all of them seem to be thinner and less populated. The beings who remain seem more wary and more aware, easier to approach and more likely to respond, in my experience. Previously I have found these beings very difficult to reach.

It is almost as if "ROAD CLOSED" barriers are across the exits, and everyone is bound for the fields beyond right and wrong and our puny religeons. God is MUCH more than a single version of Him/Her/It/Them. All there is is all there is.

Now, I think what I am calling Focus 27 is an advanced thought system like a recycling center for Earth life that feeds the Merry-Go-Round which is the Earth Time Space Illusion. This is not good or bad, just Earth based. I am more interested in alternatives to the Merry-Go-Round as I said.

Thomas

Hi guys,

Rethinking this topic


Quote:

Hi Alan, your quote: Failed souls that have done wrong will be banished for a while or converted to mindlessness and regenerated, successful souls will retain their unique awareness within the “Infinite Cosmic ,Mind.

I think I just phrazed the above quote wrongly . So I will rephraze it and see it it is more acceptable.

Failed souls (those who exist in the hellish realms of their own making) are banished for a while to see if their wrong thinking can be corrected, If not their memories are erased, so that they can embrace innocence again and be given a new chance to progress back into the cosmic mind. "They are returned to innocence, like a new born baby" (this is what I meant by regenerated)

Because in the afterlife all minds are open to all other minds by instant telepathy no wrong thinking soul or entity could ever be allowed into the universal/cosmic mind before it becomes pure.

To me the above is logical, but I made the unfortunate mistake of saying mindlessness instead of innocence.

Do I know what I have written is absolutely true and factual , absolutely not it is all based on my subjective experiences and beliefs.

alan



_______

For me its the whole "banished" part that I have some question about. As you are not "sent" to the hellish realms but exist there by your own design, and only you can correct or learn for your earthly life experience, is banishment the right word. The " if not their memories are erased" suggests that someone or something is holding judgemt over you. When in fact it is yourself who are Judge and juror.
Joe    

I've considered the below possibility before.





Alan McDougall wrote on May 16^th, 2008 at 12:46pm:

Hi guys, Failed souls (those who exist in the hellish realms of their own making) are banished for a while to see if their wrong thinking can be corrected, If not their memories are erased, so that they can embrace innocence again and be given a new chance to progress back into the cosmic mind. "They are returned to innocence, like a new born baby" (this is what I meant by regenerated) Because in the afterlife all minds are open to all other minds by instant telepathy no wrong thinking soul or entity could ever be allowed into the universal/cosmic mind before it becomes pure. To me the above is logical, but I made the unfortunate mistake of saying mindlessness instead of innocence. Do I know what I have written is absolutely true and factual , absolutely not it is all based on my subjective experiences and beliefs. alan _______

hi Alan, you usually manage to clarify your words so well..I think maybe that's what we are here for..to clarify ourselves as we all put different meaning to our words than another. thanks.

I basically agree that the afterlife is a cleansing process, yet we do that right here while in the flesh if we've a mind to, most of the people I've known, including my own family have no interest whatever in afterlife conditions and so they stay in their patterns of thought and action. that's another reason why forums like this are popping up everywhere...it appears to me, we are all starting to get a much bigger picture of our unlimited beings.

TG, the focus levels spoken of as expressways is so good an analogy, and I have found this expression also in "Otherwhere" by Kurt Leland who reports he has crossed the bridge of focus 21 and now has none of those barriars to deal with.  Leland comes out of TMI also, have you read his book? It's one of the best descriptions of the focus levels, afterlife, that I've seen. Bruce liked it too. Another study of mine "The Unobstructed Universe," a classic now, has called the expressways as leading to certain points within spacial reference. (it's hard to get a feel for nonphysical space)
Our "Otherwhere" is a type of space which can be contracted or expanded by units of consciousness (us) far out huh? that makes motion fairly immediate to be in another space or point of reference.

Gee whiz TG, so you know how to clear out a room too? ha! well I'm over here trying to make you stay put, so that's a switch. Monroe's riddles, I guess I never thought of them as riddles, but it's true for many, that they can be a riddle. as you say, we are, all explorers are in the act of fleshing out the focus levels. I've a feeling he's still around seeing what he started!

anyone following this sees Monroe's words as a riddle, I have a little encouragement to offer; In TMI I learned of a thing called a rote and began to occassionally experience receiving a rote. it's also been called a thought ball.
U can take one of Monroe's riddles and place it, pretend to place the words on your forehead, paste them there (lol) go on about your business...soon enough, a day, a week, your own time a rote will come sailing in to understand it perfectly. then go onto the next riddle. It is like opening the mind for the rote. it may come in sleep state also, but once you began a practice like this it happens in the day time awareness also.

We will get off the merry-go-round, I don't know about anyone else but I've seen that happen right here time after time, someone step off it, even momentarily is a good thing.  first thing to do..ooouuwee, clear out the hell BSTs. Those of you interested in hells existence or not, it's only a BST. There are NO references to a hell existing and eternal damnation, until Christianity began to preach about one to control the masses..the more that started to believe in hell, the more real it became to them.

a cessation of judgment is very high state of consciousness TG. if you have attained it, you are to be recognized as very accomplished. thank you again for sharing your thoughts. I needed to have my memory refreshed. love, alysia

Hi all,


hawkeye wrote on May 16^th, 2008 at 1:36pm:

For me its the whole "banished" part that I have some question about. As you are not "sent" to the hellish realms but exist there by your own design, and only you can correct or learn for your earthly life experience, is banishment the right word. The " if not their memories are erased" suggests that someone or something is holding judgemt over you. When in fact it is yourself who are Judge and juror. Joe

Yeah, I agree with this hawkeye.  Maybe it is your I/There that does not want to see a part of itself hurt anymore.  I want to remember who I am, but if some part of me wants to give me a sort of cosmic shock treatment on some painful memories, that's ok, I guess, but then how would I learn to not go through it again?  
tgecks, LMAO, clearing out a room, ain't it the truth?

Simply PUL

Hawkeye,

I thought of using your word  "sent", but this exonerates all souls from their wrong incorrect actions in life or lives.

I still stick to banish as this gives the souls a clear idea that they have not yet reached the point of merging with Source. Like alysia said there is a cleansing process and they need to know, that they need cleansing.This is just fair

It is not judgment but correction of bad life experiences both from a subjective and objective point of view. That the "banished" soul cannot overcome on its own power

Alysia

Kurt Leland is unknown to me and I will search the web about him Unobstructed universe, just up my alley of interest

Unlike Bruce Moen, I also find Robert Monroe difficult to follow and many of his experiences seem vague and ambiguous to me.

alan

Yet does not "wrong" indacate the idea of judgment? Who is to say just what is right or wrong? My teachings from the All are that sacrifice for the good of the All (others on your common disk learning experience)is what is important and that not everthing that you or that others do are good nor evil, just necessary in order to move you into a higher spiritual existence or being. I think that the lessons learned in "hells" are needed in order for you to move outward. Thats why you (or I)choose to expearence them.
Joe  

I've have Kurt Leland's Otherwhere and what he says is quite different than what Robert Monroe and Bruce Moen have found, and quite different than what I found. It is quite different than what many people have found.

He says that before moving to a higher level in the spirit World, some spirits have to inhabit a physical body of a person for a moment so they can release negative emotional energy, while an inhabited person has a moment of anger. He says that this is probably what takes place with people who have multiple personality disorder, bi-polor disorder, and turret syndrome.  I find it incredibly hard to believe that a person who has one of these conditions has them because a spirit occupies this person for a short period of time until he or she has the requisite anger moment that allows negative energy to be released.  Especially mutliple personality disorder. Multiple personality disorder is far too complex for such an explanation. Why would a person with multiple personality disorder hold onto to various personalities for extended periods of time, if just one moment of emotional release is required?

Kurt also wrote that spirits with unreleased emotional energy use the bodies of coma patients and other bodies in a vegitative state to do so.  How does a body in a vegitative state get activated so that a negative emotion can be released?

He also wrote that spirits enter the bodies of people who are asleep so they can release negative energy through their body. My feeling is that unless we are unbalanced in some way, we have a natural protection against a spirit entering our body so easily.  Kurt contradicts himself on this point when he speaks about George Ritchie's NDE. George Ritchie wrote that he saw the spirits of former alcolholics hanging around a bar waiting for a drunk to pass out, so they could use the resulting energetic weakness to jump into such a person and experience this person's intoxicated state. Why would such spirits have to await for such a weakness if as Kurt claims, a spirit can jump into the body of a person anytime it wants to? Kurt claims that George Ritchie was wrong when he said that spirits attach to alcoholics so they can experience intoxicaton. I would think that George Ritchie would have a better understanding of what he was told by Jesus during his NDE, than Kurt would have. Especially since numerous sources of information speak of how the spirits of former alcholics sometimes have the tendency to connect to the energy field of alcoholic people so they can experience an intoxicated state.  Are they all wrong, and Kurt correct?

In addition to the specific situations above, Kurt also wrote that spirits wait around for people to have a moment of anger so they can jump into such a person' body at such a moment and release their negative energy at such a time.

My feeling is that negative energy always releases from us without us having to manifest in some physical manner. This is why people are able to feel bad vibes coming from a person even when a person doesn't express these bad vibes through some sort of body language.  I figure that a spirit who isn't encased within a physical body would have an easier time releasing negative energy than a person who is encased within a physical body.  It is more of a matter of whether we keep creating negative emotional energy by holding on to the thought patterns that cause them to come into being.

Kurt's explaination of what happens after death is quite different than what Rober Monroe and Bruce Moen have explained. He says that after a person dies, a spirit helper moves into this person's grave, and squeezes this person's spirit out of their body sort of like releasing toothpaste from a tube.  NDEs etc state that a spirit has no problem leaving a body after death. Why did Kurt come up with a viewpoint that nobody else has come up with? Why do spirit helpers wait so long before they squeeze a spirit out of a body?  Does a spirit remain in a body while at a morgue?  During the embalming process? During the funeral? Probably not the former, because numerous sources speak about how spirits will attend their own funeral.

Kurt continues that after spirits are scooped out of their bodies, they are brought to a place where they are placed in a centrifuge like device so their negative emotional energy can be released. If this is so, why can't all spirits do so? Why do some have to release their negative emotional energy through the bodily emotional release of a person?

Kurt claims that after such emotional cleansing, spirits are moved to a place where they become depressed because they are unwilling to accept that they are dead.  Clearly this contradicts the typical joyfull crossing over story. Kurt isn't talking about spirits who need retrievels when he speaks of this.  He's speaking of "all" spirits. Also during this phase, according to Kurt, spirits adjust to no time.

After they do so, they are placed in drawers so spirit alchemists can convert their state back to a state of pure consciousness. Supposedly more emotional release takes place during this time period. Why can such emotional release take place without the aid of a physical body, when physical bodies are needed for some spirits during an earlier stage?

Next arrangements are made to reincarnate. No getting stuck, no lower realms, no belief systems, no focus 27, no disk/soul group to rejoin, a completely different way of doing things.

I could write more, but I believe I stated enough.

I didn't write this to be negative. I am simply trying to discuss the matter in an intelligent manner.

Just a little point about books..we all have favorites that we keep around after we've read them. We get attached to them.

I used to sell mine after a first read. then I would find myself wishing I hadn't sold it as I needed to go back to it for a reference. then I found a number of years go by, I pick up an old friend from the past and re-read and it knocks my socks off what I missed the first read.

So I'm planning to re-read Ultimate Journeys, I believe is Monroe's last work and the best. We also have some book references listed under Resources at the top of this page by Bruce.

Another book Disappearance of the Universe by Gary Renard is one of my personal picks.

and don't forget The Path, subtitle From Illusion to Freedom by William Cozzolino. Alan if you like Unobstructed Universe you will like The Path as well.

both of these books are mostly left brained, offering some more scientifically oriented principles of personal reality creating/belief systems/collective belief systems, etc.

sorry, didn't mean to overload you   I'm a book worm, see, here I am http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/bookworm.gif

Alan:

Regarding Gary Renard's dissapearance of the universe, it claims that each of us will have to reincarnate thousands of times, and this universe is nothing but a big mistake.

My experiences have told me differently. Each of us won't have to incarnate thousands of times. This universe isn't a mistake, it is a part of the divine plan. I figure you see things the same way. I could say "much" more, but sometimes much can be shared by saying little.

gee whiz, I read Kurt Leland and don't remember reading anything like what you read Recoverer. Guess I'll have to pull it out and do another read to be able to refer to those specific things you mentioned.

But right now I've got to finish Tolle's New Earth as it's a priority.

Off hand though, I would not infer that every single person is "squeezed' out of their body..that's probably pointing out a few souls who simply need a little help moving on here and there. my feeling is people with long illnesses are preparing to slip out easily. This reference, on the positive side, is that it's true, we are very busy aiding each other when we are nonphysical.

Releasing negative energy through a physical person is new to me, but at the same time I know there are people who deliberately take upon themselves another's pain body. Stigmatism is a reference in point. Encased is not a good word..as spirits we are not encased in a body. If that is Leland's word I don't know. The aura is a thought field/emotional field surrounding the body and permeating it and giving it vitality of life. The aura can be entered by nonphysicals and the thoughts are seen as patterns of color interplay in movement (just imagining our fields)

We share in a consensus agreement, the collective area our fields of awareness reach to, in that sense it shows our Oneness. sensitive people, like you can pick up other's thoughts in this collective area. You can also choose to shut down your aura, it's just like putting up a closed signal or sign, then nothing enters your space but what you choose. I admit, occassionally there is an unwelcome personage wander in and you might have to remind them the place is closed. We can all learn to do this in time.

so like I said, I have to read again Leland to see if I missed something that you saw. as I saw it, he had an entirely new perspective on what happens for the average person going through a purifying experience on their way to higher levels, that's all I remember. and the part about how things got more and more clear as he crossed over into areas where he was experiencing more and more illumination, a place I define as leaving all doubts behind that we are not just physical beings.

thats the whole point to these kind of books...people think, the majority, the physical life is the sum total of their identity...the more self exploration books of this type the better I say, because these need to start questioning that material stance.

That reminds me, several people have taken into their body my pain, only releasing it until later..then I think i did that too with one person. I think we need to improve on this method of healing, but not sure where to begin but through continued study.

Either that, study, or we could just agree we are all nuts and completely able to put that nuttiness down on paper and sell it.  we are all in this together. my own life, if I were able to get detailed enough, reads like a work of gothic fantasy if I include several more lives in it, I've lost anybody's interest!

just saying cut Leland some slack, writing is tough work, especially when writing of personal journey's where only symbolic things are offered for translation.

hope to chat with you Sunday in the chat room here Recoverer, and all!

Alysia:

I need to clarify that some of what I wrote came from Kurt's book the unanswered questions.

Whatever is true, I believe that all of us will someday find that things are set up better than we realize, and our varying beliefs systems will be something we chuckle at. Perhaps they are a part of the movie.

I'd like to join in on the chat room, but I only have internet access at work, and I won't be coming in to work on Sunday night.

recoverer wrote on May 16^th, 2008 at 5:35pm:

Alysia: I need to clarify that some of what I wrote came from Kurt's book the unanswered questions. Whatever is true, I believe that all of us will someday find that things are set up better than we realize, and our varying beliefs systems will be something we chuckle at. Perhaps they are a part of the movie. I'd like to join in on the chat room, but I only have internet access at work, and I won't be coming in to work on Sunday night.

oh ok. didn't know he had another book out. so u don't have a home computer? blow me down, now I know what u do at work..lol..you come to AKC.

Maybe we could set up a chatroom sometime so you could come too. love, alysia

I hope Kurt Leland is wrong and Bruce and Monroe are correct. He might have a point about inhabiting another body briefly, but I dont think it is to release negative energy. It just sounds evil to me. transmigration of the souls as in the voodoo religion. This concept is disturbing to me and even more mortifying and hideous for the victims if true.

I had an experience many years back. As you possibly know by now I am a controlled bi-polar sufferer. During an extreme manic high I left my body blazing with manic energy and entered the body of a man in a small room who was sitting there locked up and in despair for some reason.

This was unspeakably, terrifying and horrifying to me and thank god, yes thank god it has never happened again.,  Stick to Bruce believe me his methods are the safest I have read about an they concur with my own.

Believe me this once, I know what I am talking about, there are places and realms that are forbidder for some reason or the other and are well left alone. Of course this is my view based on my subjective experience, but in this case I felt the absolute terrified horror

Alan

hope to chat with you Sunday in the chat room here Recoverer, and all!

What time do you chat in the chat room on Sunday?

recoverer wrote on May 16^th, 2008 at 4:14pm:

Alan: Regarding Gary Renard's dissapearance of the universe, it claims that each of us will have to reincarnate thousands of times, and this universe is nothing but a big mistake. My experiences have told me differently. Each of us won't have to incarnate thousands of times. This universe isn't a mistake, it is a part of the divine plan. I figure you see things the same way. I could say "much" more, but sometimes much can be shared by saying little.

I thought about this big mistake part Recoverer, and I reconciled it in my mind, some of the things you bring up. when I look into a baby's eyes and get lost in that beauty, I cannot say that child is making a mistake to have come here, but at once I know I have this huge responsibility, just from the beauty the child reflected back to me it's joy to be here with me now. I thought it was her soul bearing the message and I thought she recognized me too.
this is my preference to believe we do have other lives, and that what is a mistake, is not the whole world and to come here, but what is a mistake is the pain, the illness, the struggle to survive, the wars, I would call that a mistake.
Anybody read Ruth Montgomery's Futuristic books? this is also another belief I took from her, that one day will come there will be no Earth as we view it now. It will be allowed to go back to it's natural state, meaning no more cities, concrete and chopped down rain forest. It will simply be a drop in station for vacationing beings.
just my belief, take it or leave it.

as far as the necessity or non-necessity of endless reincarnating; I believe in little lites and big lites.
the little ones may need more lives than the others, eventually the little lites become big lites and graduate like the big lites did. I don't know the number. I know of a couple dozen lives I've had, there's probably more.

I cannot say I've had thousands..hard to figure. I picked up another line of thought in regards to that; it is that each of us has between 700 and 1400 (again, an arbitrary number, but commonly, I've noticed people waking up on different forums have around 800 simultaneous lives occurring in different historic periods. so thats not linear reincarnation as we usually look at it.
not clock time. it's more like dimensions of time, time that is not dependent on the rotation of planets to denote a day has gone by.

this is analogous to the disc idea. each person possessing 800 other selves, other lives.
At some point One disc with the 800 individual units, would be able to graduate Earth circumstance.

Or, we should say gain that recognition that we can choose and plan another life, either within the disc selves, or I've heard we can join another disc.

If all my lives I could retrieve a memory or a precognition of, say, each one I have freed from having to re-enter another movie, so we can all graduate at the same time more or less, the thing is when talking about time here, we are limited in our definitions..we have 3 dimensional time, past, present and future here, what I'm talking about is nonlinear time, it's all happening at once.

this having a choice, I figure if you've done a good job here, say, for others, to do your best is all that's required to graduate, or have more of a choice of your next circumstances, until you've just about done it all and there's not much else to do but help others wake up, whomever is around you. You just know when you've earned the right to decide your fate for yourself.

until you earn the choice, your disc mates help you decide if another life is necessary, or sometimes folks like it here..imagine that! my mother wants to come back, so I imagine she will. we have certain desires, desires are not bad things. certain experiences we desire.

eventually all the 800 or whatever have gathered all they want to and speed out somewhere else, don't ask me where...must be a really huge universe after all, if you are the adventurous sort...

speaking of my twin daughters and I, they are like other me's. I know we're in the same disc and have been together before. they also knew I'd never come here without them joining me at some point.
these are just explorations of my beliefs, not meant to rile anybody up. take it or leave. at least I'm not charging you money! lol!
love, alysia

SHSS wrote on May 16^th, 2008 at 6:22pm:

hope to chat with you Sunday in the chat room here Recoverer, and all! What time do you chat in the chat room on Sunday?

3PM PST   I'll let u guys figure out what time zone you live in. I'm thoroughly confused about time zones, but I'll be here at 3pm. PST.

Recoverer can't come on Sunday. If he wants to choose another day as well, I'm up for that.
we're just getting this started. then we'll make it regular.

When I look at your invite post, I thought you had 6:00 pst in mind. Some people might get confused.  

I don't believe the time should be changed for my sake.  I can't partake during working hours. It is one thing to drop in and read or write a thread, and another thing to partake in a conversation. Thank you anyway.  :)

Actually, perhaps sometime I can use my lunch break to partake for a little while. I don't believe it would be fair to change the time for Sunday.

Heh! this thread has a life of its own and that is good!!

From alysia post


Quote:

I thought about this big mistake part Recoverer, and I reconciled it in my mind, some of the things you bring up. when I look into a baby's eyes and get lost in that beauty, I cannot say that child is making a mistake to have come here, but at once I know I have this huge responsibility, just from the beauty the child reflected back to me it's joy to be here with me now. I thought it was her soul bearing the message and I thought she recognized me too. this is my preference to believe we do have other lives, and that what is a mistake, is not the whole world and to come here, but what is a mistake is the pain, the illness, the struggle to survive, the wars, I would call that a mistake. Anybody read Ruth Montgomery's Futuristic books? this is also another belief I took from her, that one day will come there will be no Earth as we view it now. It will be allowed to go back to it's natural state, meaning no more cities, concrete and chopped down rain forest. It will simply be a drop in station for vacationing beings. just my belief, take it or leave it

Alysia,

Yes our world will be vacated by mortal man and returned again to its pristine perfection and glory.

And yes again there is more beauty than uglyness. Remember the song "I believe" every time I hear a new born baby cry every time I see the great blue sky. I cant remember the lyrics but it went something like that

This is similar to what I believe and posted in my message in Blinks thread After ………..alan.

We have to look  for that which is ugly and unpleasant because we are not drawn to this negative dimension but like a butterfly or bee to that which is beautiful. I do!!

And yes the universe is unimaginably glorious and beautiful “The heavens declare the glory of God“


My wording
We all are part or parcel of God.

Mortal humanity will have to exit a bursting world and migrate out into the vastness of the universe


As if a mirror polished to give a perfect reflection of the Sun, all those apparently separate rays of consciousness would know themselves to be the same “Eternal Light”.  
God THE EVER EXISTING ONE" perceives everything regardless. HE alone inhabits the highest realm of existence.  

Everything is in God’s imagination. Without it, nothing would exist.  

When a soul finally reunites with “Source”, it retains a certain amount of its individuality yet is still in complete harmony with all other thought beings.    

The Godhead is an ever-expanding energy force and each returning spirit, having achieved that degree of fineness, breadth of thought and understanding, adds to the infinity of experience within the Godhead.  

The spirit itself continues to expand into infinity complete harmony and oneness until it finally merges into such greatness that there are no words to describe it.      
   
When a soul reaches its final destination, it is immersed in this unimaginable inconceivably beautiful spectacular dimension! Iridescent rivers of sound bounded by rainbow shores of pulsating light. Thoughts appear as kaleidoscopic patterns of light and sound. You walk across fields of ideas of knowledge and understanding. Under a sparkling crystal skies of inspiration.  

When you enter this final realm, do not try to rationalize or understand it is beyond human understanding. Just accept it all, go with the flow and enjoy it! It is that “Great City of Revelation”      
   
All realms exist in the same space, and yet remain separate and distinct by the vibration or frequency of consciousness, forming and creating each beautiful realm. We are "everywhere" and "everywhen" at the same moment, time and space are no more. than illusions
Quote:

Recoverer you Quoted Alan: Regarding Gary Renard's dissapearance of the universe, it claims that each of us will have to reincarnate thousands of times, and this universe is nothing but a big mistake

Reply

I do not agree the universe is meticulously planned and is inimitable evidence of an intelligent act of an omnificent designer. Hek !! If I could make a mistake as wonderful as our unimaginably beautiful universe I would jump, jump and leap at the chance, indeed I would be God

As far as ceaseless incarnating goes, what a bleak scenario without end or beginning going nowhere forever.

Sorry I just have to revisited my post the Message in Blinks thread After Alan we will be together again



You do not incarnate endlessly you must ultimate merge with all existence becoming one
beautifully fashioned facid that is the Great infinite Diamond called God by many.



””When a soul finally reunites with “Source”, it retains a certain amount of its individuality yet is still in complete harmony with all other thought beings.    

The Godhead is an ever-expanding energy force and each returning spirit, having achieved that degree of fineness, breadth of thought and understanding, adds to the infinity of experience within the Godhead.  

The spirit itself continues to expand into infinity complete harmony and oneness until it finally merges into such greatness that there are no words to describe it.      
   
When a soul reaches its final destination, it is immersed in this unimaginable inconceivably beautiful spectacular dimension! Iridescent rivers of sound bounded by rainbow shores of pulsating light. Thoughts appear as kaleidoscopic patterns of light and sound. You walk across fields of ideas of knowledge and understanding. Under a sparkling crystal skies of inspiration.  

When you enter this final realm, do not try to rationalize or understand it is beyond human understanding. Just accept it all, go with the flow and enjoy it! It is that “Great City of Revelation”      
   
All realms exist in the same space, and yet remain separate and distinct by the vibration or frequency of consciousness, forming and creating each beautiful realm. We are "everywhere" and "everywhen" at the same moment, time and space are no more. than illusions””

I love you guys I really do!!

alan[/color[/color]

Bruce's writings notwithstanding, I do not believe that any one in any circumstance is ever cut off and separated permanently. In my experience even the smallest spark is nurtured and guided, and none is ever lost. It may take some "time" but unless everyone goes, IMO, none of us go. It is in every one of us, not just some of us.

So--to return to my question before the thread was hijacked-- do you find the BSTs thinning out? Do you find 27 getting larger and more diverse? Am I the ONLY one who goes beyond what we call 27?

When you retrieve from the BSTs, do you find them as populated and active as they were, say, a few years ago in earth time? As substantial, or are they dissolving?

Thomas

Might you share a little of what you've seen, Thomas, beyond focus 27? I am not really completely clear on what these focus levels mean, but I am sure there would be a lot of interest here by many in reading your experiences. Perhaps anyone who has had a similar experience will join in at that point, hopefully.

Greetings,

:) Hey T, Just because some of us aren't able to answer your question doesn't mean we're not interested !
From the beginning of when you posted here it was clear that you were getting more difficult and different assignments than many of us. You can focus on higher sources of information now.
And feel free to congratulate yourself--you deserve it!

I consider myself an active retriever but still just a novice. I'm escorted to the retrievee and the most other souls I've seen or sensed has been no more than five at a time. FL population is beyond me!

Oh, by the way, Congratulations !  :D

Bets

tjeck/Thomas your comment


Quote:

So--to return to my question before the thread was hijacked-- do you find the BSTs thinning out? Do you find 27 getting larger and more diverse? Am I the ONLY one who goes beyond what we call 27? When you retrieve from the BSTs, do you find them as populated and active as they were, say, a few years ago in earth time? As substantial, or are they dissolving?

Hijacked come on !! a thread must take its own course like a living entity meandering down pathways of interest. If you become a member of a forum and post a topic this topic belongs to the forum and not to you my friend.

The answer to your as to the BSTs poulations, it is increasing due to the population growth on planet earth, resulting in more and more persons dying and thus needing help. This is just logical, but applies to our earth alone and could be very different in other worlds in our physical universe


alan

Hi again,

Do we know what portions we get to see? Could there be different areas even within the Focus Levels that are visible to each person based on other reasons than their actual population?  
Isn't everything we see and do there relative to our own need to know?

Bets

But couldn't the amount of souls remaining in the BST's decrease no matter what the population on earth, due to large groups leaving the BST's? Who really knows how large the BST's are, or how they are distributed? How would we know? I'm just kind of amazed that anyone would even have an opinion about it.

Alan has me in stitches, Bets, thats a really good comment about we see what are ready to see, or prepared to let in.

as regarding the focus levels, I've never attended TMI so I had to impress myself with the meaning of the focus levels by reading of people who had been there. thats why I drag out my file on them from time to time to remind myself of the general explanation given by Monroe.

I think, generally speaking, the levels are labels for states of consciousness, but once you do an exploration or a retrieval to a BST, there are no signposts that say "attention!" approaching BST number 24, enter with caution!

It's more like with me I'm just there. poof. Some retrievals would happen in rem sleep. I'd be standing on somebody's porch, wondering why, so I'd knock on the door and suddenly remember I had set an intention to do this retrieval.
It didn't seem important to find out which BST it was, it was just the astral plane to me.

However, I think the focus levels are extremely helpful to have some sort of bearings, and ways of communicating to other retrievers and explorers. For the most part, retrievers who actually talk about doing retrievals are not coming in droves here.

To try and answer your question TG, I have noticed focus 27 seems much much larger and expansive then when I first saw it. when I do realize that's where I am. It's so large, I haven't seen all of it. I like the library, the reception area, the rehab hospital, and the horizon is picture perfect, the park is serene. I know it's bigger than I seen it or can imagine.

I was told retrievals are only the beginning of something far larger. I can do them, but I don't pick which ones to do. they are picked for me, such as spirit tells me, or a brother or sister calls on me who just can't seem to understand when I tell them how, so I'll go see what I can get if Im nudged by spirit.

I was hoping someone would come along and inform us of focus level 33 and beyond, where The Gathering is supposed to be at.
I can feel it, but can't talk about it.

love, alysia

About the BSTs, Blinks response no.42 is right on I think, and like to add, in my experience the access, or the entry to the BSTs is highgly dependable on one's mood and personal state. Often I can't see nothing of it, sometimes a snippet of it when I was brought to a specific person in it; to get an overview of it is hard for me, I then always see the stereotypes of churches, mosques and other religious symbols and that may be only a reflection of my expectations.

Regarding "beyond F27", I have a variety of impressions of that. They all share that there is not a kind of humanlike organized system as in F22-F27. I've never ever met another human there, with two exceptions: Once a humanlike guy brought me to a place where I could watch color swirls around the earth (maybe the gathering), and then there are humanlike entities which I think are a part of my higher self, "disk members".
  What I had several times is, what I interpreted as communication between higher selves.

So, for me it's hard to put these regions beyond F27 into a perspective which would be a continuation of the other Focus Levels. Often, the space and form becomes so much different, or meaningless, that this seems to be a kind of new chapter.

There is one thing about the TMI system what I don't understand. When I tried to explore the gathering (without the specific HemiSync sounds though) I actually found the double character of F33/34. F33 to me was white, formless, but with creative potential; an abstract, powerful yet calm level, while very "near" to it, F34, was what I think must be the Gathering; black space with some hard to make out objects. Now, what is said from TMI about Starlines, you there explore the universe, galaxies, stars and (maybe) planets, going up in FocusLevel numbers. But exploring the physical universe would be an exploring in what traditionally is called the ethereal, the nearest consciousness level to the physical. So, it would make more sense to me if the Starline FocusLevels would be around F10-F21, as the "older" FocusLevels had nothing to do with physical distance, only with the distance to the focus on the physical. Or I got something wrong.

Spooky

thanks Spooky, that helped. as I recall an experience where I died and then joined this very board, it was an elevator that took me to level 5, called the love level, or heart path. later, I ascertain it was the same as focus 27 would be.
I went up to level 6th, there it was very calm beings, not as many as on level 5 or focus 27. they seemed very intelligent but not emotional in the least. they asked me did I want to work there with them. i said no, my friends that I knew were on level 5 and we had much work to do.

maybe level 6 was focus 33 I briefly tapped into. there was a level 7. I didn't go since I felt I needed to get back to focus 27 or level 5.

Hi guys,/ spooky,

Spooky said


Quote:

They all share that there is not a kind of humanlike organized system as in F22-F27. I'venever ever met another human there, with two exceptions: Once a humanlike guy brought me to a place where I could watch color swirls around the earth (maybe the gathering), and then there are humanlike entities which I think are a part of my higher self, "disk members

I said in previous post
The answer to your as to the BSTs poulations, it is increasing due to the population growth on planet earth, resulting in more and more persons dying and thus needing help. This is just logical, but applies to our earth alone and could be very different in other worlds in our physical universe

This what I meant, do we concur or am I missing something?

And by the way in this area of I think I must be the ultimate novice, I hope it is not showing too much as I still have much to learn

alan

Hi Alan,
that the number of BST inhabitants would increase simultaneously with the earth population increase may seem likely, but is not necessarily so. For example, it could as well be that more and more spirits go directly to F27 after ending their physical life, bypassing the BSTs, or at least that the duration of their habitation in the BSTs would be shorter before they would move on.

The other thing, that I have not met "real" humans beyond F27 can have various reasons. Maybe it's just my perception, or so many human attributes are dropped before taking residence beyond F27 that those spirits cannot easily be recognized as ex-humans, which would be likely when those regions actually are that way different as I have perceived them. Of course, how other, non-human physical or non-physical worlds are structured, I can't tell.

Alysia: That's interesting that you had a similar impression of that level. The elevator method seems to be good, I heard it's used by others, too.


Spooky

Spooky and Alysia

Spooky said


Quote:

Alysia: That's interesting that you had a similar impression of that level. The elevator method seems to be good, I heard it's used by others, too.

Now I remember being on possibly this elevator rushing upward at great speed even going frightenly right through the percieved roof at a time and beneath the perceived floor at others.

I thought it came from a fear of falling etc, but thinking about it going through the roof contadicts this. When this happened I had no idea what to do but sit and watch the levels rush at geat speed up or down. And to top it all I have no fear of hights or falling in the awake state.

alan

that the number of BST inhabitants would increase simultaneously with the earth population increase may seem likely, but is not necessarily so. For example, it could as well be that more and more spirits go directly to F27 after ending their physical life, bypassing the BSTs, or at least that the duration of their habitation in the BSTs would be shorter before they would move on.
_____

this is logical and my feeling is most of us are evolved enough to go directly to focus 27 upon transition, which is what I've said all along, not everyone is getting stuck in a hollow heaven or BST. there are hollow heavens Alan, which is another BST. thats where people get stuck when they only believe their religion is the only "right" religion, but they continue to evolve in the hollow heavens as well. if we consider that in focus 27 we have hospitals for those that believe they still suffer a disease, then that also is a type of belief, or illusion right there in focus 27 existing.
however, the rehab joints and hospitals for focus 27 inhabitants, the workers there can work with these who still think they are sick much easier I assume, than the hardcore religious dogma BSTs. just assuming thats so, because it's easier to "see" yourself well than it is to drop an entire belief system one identifies with as intrinsically to sustain their being. it's like an addiction in any case. sort of like one might see holy rollers rolling on the floor, it's a high they get addicted to.
also in focus 27 there are trainers who teach people to fly; they still think because of gravity they can't fly. there is no gravity law in focus 27, but still people have to be taught.

every thing appears just as solid as you want it to. I touched Cami, the girl I retrieved, she was solid. maybe this is so because the mind creates this solidity feature; it's just another dimension with different rules, more fluid, sort of it's your mind that creates the housing, the solidity, the eating and drinking is optional but is still enjoyed as a normal activity, and societies  are the same as here. there's even a BST still using money as an exchange system.
thats a BST for sure. almost everything is a belief system made real by us until we reach the highest levels or other life systems, which I can't say I have, except to imagine, and then my imagination has limits too.
______
Spooky said:
The other thing, that I have not met "real" humans beyond F27 can have various reasons. Maybe it's just my perception, or so many human attributes are dropped before taking residence beyond F27 that those spirits cannot easily be recognized as ex-humans
______
the beings on the 6th level referred to above, I too wondered for a moment of their human status as the lack of emotion, lending a quiet controlled vibration to the level was peculiar at the time to me, then I seemed to get the data that they had graduated ELS. We seem to be a unique planet with our emotions and a lot of aliens are intrigued with our ability to love.
apparently, they are left brained primarily, some of the aliens. Monroe says we are a planet that produces Loosh. A harvest crop of love energy. If all is energy it makes strange but true logic that we grow by expressing love.
______

Alysia: That's interesting that you had a similar impression of that level. The elevator method seems to be good, I heard it's used by others, too.
_____
same here, there are some universal symbols we have in common.

Alan said:

Now I remember being on possibly this elevator rushing upward at great speed even going frightenly right through the percieved roof at a time and beneath the perceived floor at others.

I thought it came from a fear of falling etc, but thinking about it going through the roof contadicts this. When this happened I had no idea what to do but sit and watch the levels rush at geat speed up or down. And to top it all I have no fear of hights or falling in the awake state.

alan

[/color][/quote]

The great speed you experienced also sounds like a roller coaster ride Alan. Sometimes a lucid dreamer is dreaming of falling. In this case I would suggest it is the astral body returning to the flesh body which produces this falling sensation. Frequently the dreamer awakens as if jarred awake.
The brain does not understand that the spirit can travel away from it, so it produces in some cases the sensations of returning as images.

apart from mystical travels which leads to other focus levels. when u went through the roof, I think your inner nature was seeking God's face at a frightening rate of speed.
I'm just going off from what you've shared with us about your search for truth.

the energy body which we travel in can move at various speeds through orthic space. it can move faster than the speed of light, or saunter along gracefully at leisure..it just depends on the individual and what level they most often live at when they are physical in C1.

I like to call this energy body as the mind's awareness expansion principle. with form. also I like to call it that we build presence out there, when we build presence here. we become present everywhere, as in Bruce's sharing with us, there were a half dozen of himself, one for each person he was helping out in his classrooms. that is like presence.
you've been flying pretty high Alan!

Alysia,

I copied the focus level for a newbie like me in this area of expertise, thank you.

The elevator I mentioned in a previous post on this thread, often stopped with people getting in or out of the elevator at different floor levels??

Regards the focus levels you gave, my question why do they start at ten and stop at I think +47. why dont these levels continue to go up and up, all the way up to and beyond...............................+ 10 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000?

Surely given the unimaginable vastness of the physical universe, countless afterlife dimension and realms of existence unknown to us mere more humans there must be levels going up into infinity and others descending down into realms of minus numbers - 12 .....................- 10 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000.

Forgive me I know my ignorance is showing but to my puny mind this seems logical. Existence must be blazing with activity in an unimaginable way to reach the ultimate goal of all sentient life, or indeed all live forms, to finally merge is the colossal union of Source and Godhead, OH!! ohm!! gosh!! gosh!! My .....................head   hurts.

zillions of zillions of zillions are neceassary to help "stuck beings from in all these realms of existence" and mankind must only make up a minute few of these countless entities


Your humble student alan

Alan, u are filling me with mirth today...one thing about you is you fly so high and crash so hard in your energy body..just seems like you are learning too much too fast spiritually speaking.

the focus levels just a general guideline for the masses, I imagine there may be so many intersecting points of awareness that it could be imagined as a tremendous grid or matrix out there with no boundaries as we can imagine..who puts a limit on infinity?
the main thing is to feel like we are free. you feel the freedom, you don't have to worry about numbering the freedom levels.  :)

Alysia,


Quote:

Alan, u are filling me with mirth today...one thing about you is you fly so high and crash so hard in your energy body..just seems like you are learning too much too fast spiritually speaking

Maybe going high and  crashing hard has something to do with my struggle with the bi-polar disorder. I dont, however, want us to go into the cause of my illness as it has been under excellent control for many years now. Just a thought and thanks for your comment

alan

well I don't see you with a label on you such as bi polar Alan. I see you as adventurous explorer and some of us like to fly high and don't mind crashing if it's for a good cause.
I think you are over that diagnosis, matter of fact I claim for you complete health in every way in my vision. I am a healer by nature.
love to you, alysia

Alysia,


Quote:

I think you are over that diagnosis, matter of fact I claim for you complete health in every way in my vision. I am a healer by nature. love to you, alysia

Thank you Alysia I just want to be honest on the forum and you are correct as I have been well and under control for many years now, only having some very very small episodes that dont effect my life or that of others . I perceived long ago on joining the forum that you had great healing vibrations and could heal when you wanted to and felt compassion

alan

thank you Alan for reading me correctly, I can see now, I am just like you. we are building a new world.