Hi there!

Many websites have said that if people can't ascend 2012 to the 4th or 5th dimension, they will have to reincarnate. My question to you is will this be immediately after they die or will they still be allowed to spend a reasonable amount of time in the afterlife before they have to reincarnate?

I would like to know something about what will happen to the humans that don't choose to raise their vibration before 2012?  What will happen to these  3rd density humans AFTER  they have died of disease due to their unresolved Karma? I mean during the Ascension period their low vibrational bodies won't then be compatible with the higher vibration of earth.

I am referring to the following: If those humans should die, will they have to reincarnate onto another 3rd dimensional existence IMMEDIATELY after their deaths or  will they still be allowed to stay for a period of let's say 6oo years in the ASTRAL realms before they have to reincarnate?

Kind regards
Werner

Werner:

I don't believe that you'll have to reincarnate if you don't want to. The very fact of how you don't seem to want to, shows that you aren't attached to this World. I believe that people over do the attachment to this World business. Consider what near death experience people often say. For individual reasons, they have no interest in returning to the World.  They only do so because they have responsibilities such as families to take care of.

The main things each of us want is happiness, security, peace, knowledge and love.  While in this World we become confused about how to obtain these qualities. If a spirit moved on to the World of spirit and found these qualities, why would it be pulled back into the World? There is no way that this World has things to offer that the spirit World doesn't have to offer. Especially when it comes to love.

Some say that spirits get stuck earthbound for a while because of addictions. This may be so, but before a spirit gets to the point where it can reincarnate it would have to get over its addiction sufficiently enough so it could move on to the light and get the assistance it needs so it could consider another incarnation. Or in otherwords:
1. A person is addicted to something such as sex, drugs or alchohol while alive.
2. This person dies and energetically stays connected to the World because of his or her addiction.
3. This person, I mean spirit, becomes tired of being attached to the World, receives help from a spirit helper, and moves to a place in the spirit World where its addiction based energetics can be cleansed. Along with this cleansing process will be a life review which enables the spirit to understand why it became addicted while incarnated in a human body. Because this spirit is no longer encased within a body, it will be separated from the survival instinct, food drive, sex drive, chemical imbalances, hormonal influences, and the emotion producing chemicals the body includes. It will be free of the mental capacity limitations a nervous system imposes.  It will be free of the energetic limitations a body causes.
4. After a spirit completes the energetic cleansing and life review process, it will move to a higher level of the spirit World where it will be exposed to a level of love, happiness, peace, beauty and knowledge,  where earth based attachments will seem pale in comparison.  Therefore, whether or not a spirit reincarnates will be a matter of choice rather than requirement. Perhaps it will want to learn more lessons, or serve the light in some way.

I restate what I wrote on another thread. While in the spirit World we work with other spirits and share our lessons.  This negates the need for numerous incarnations.

Hello

It's interesting that this was posted at 2:12.
I can not see any reason why you would have to focus here again if you do not want to.

Love,
SHSS   :-*

I disagree,I think we have to come back here again and again,untill we get it right.What ever a man sows,so shall he reep.If a person kills someone or rapes and murders.and than confesses his sins,he is still not free to stay in the spirit world.because he has to come back to earth and experience what his vicdem felt when he or she was put through that experience.God is not mocked George

Regarding what George wrote:

I figure it this way, we start out as spirit beings that have an existence that has little to do with lives that are experienced in this World.

Right now things are set up so that Souls who have nothing to do with this life have to get involved with the many difficult incarnations that exist, because we keep creating difficult lives that have to be experienced. Some Souls are bound to end up getting influenced in negative ways. This fact is proven over and over again.

When a person or spirit who gets influenced in a negative way decides to move back towards the light, this person or spirit is going to be helped by very loving and non-judgmental light beings who understand the risk that souls take when they incarnate into this World.

What is the point of punishing a Soul for past negative activities, when this soul becomes honest about what it did and does what it needs to do to change its ways?  To make people with a vengefull attitude feel better? This doesn't accomplish anything.

Regarding the loved ones of possible victims, it is unfortunate that they have to go through what they go through, but a day will come where they will find that people who got hurt are spirit beings who can never get hurt. Wishing vengence on the person who did wrong just causes the effects of unfortunate occurences to be prolonged.









george stone wrote on May 8^th, 2008 at 4:07pm:

I disagree,I think we have to come back here again and again,untill we get it right.What ever a man sows,so shall he reep.If a person kills someone or rapes and murders.and than confesses his sins,he is still not free to stay in the spirit world.because he has to come back to earth and experience what his vicdem felt when he or she was put through that experience.God is not mocked George

So recover,are you saying that we can go ahead and rape and murder,and when we get into the spirit world,we will be loved like someone who did not do these things and lived a good life,ok guys lets do it,god will bless us anyway,

I don't believe in "2012"

Okay, I've said it.

I think there are multiple timelines, multiple possible scenarios. I can't make heads or tails of half of what is written about 2012. I think it is causing a strange anticipation.

It's like we have some dinner party to go to, and we are not sure we're going to have a very good time there. But we have promised to be there at 2012 sharp.

Like, look at your watch, how many minutes until freaking 2012.

If I hear 2012 one more time.

I'm skipping it. No 2012 for me. Nope. In my universe there will be no panic. We will be ascending, alright. But not into the 4th dimension, not yet.

This is no fantasyland, fairytale, people, I want to say! What are you talking about, reincarnation after people ascend? What have any of us done to deserve to ascend? This planet is our responsibility. I don't see the evidence on this planet that this species is anywhere near time for something so grand. We have work to do.

okay, I'm stepping down off my soap box now, blink

Werner,

I really identify with Blinks sentiments about 2012 Even if it were true and the end of some era. All ends are just doors to a new beginnings.

Now to be absolutely honest I just do not know what is going to happen during
2012.

Lets wait and see.

The future is not set in stone,

Alan

My thoughts on reincarnation are that you come back if you want or need to. That when you "die" and go to where you have decided, many truths are reveled to you. ( by yourself and by your guilds, which are sometime really you also) When you review your earth time and see the results of your actions upon others and those within your disk family, you then decide if you will learn again from spending more "time" in the physical world. If the lessions you could learn by being here again, and if they are necessary for you so you can, as a spiritual being, move on to ligher levels of awareness you will return. What you may think you would like to do at this point may very well change once you no longer are in body. Perhaps there will be wrongs to right and it may only be possable while you are "alive". The possable lessions that could be needed are countless. Of course you may not need another round here on the old blue marble. In that case you could go on to a higher realm, hang out for a while at your "home" while you think about it, or get to work helping other back here who just haven't got it togeather enough to be "there". You will know what you need to be doing at that time.
Joe

George:

I believe it will be more of a matter of how a spirit judges itself. Imagine what it would be like to face the shame, guilt, remorse, and self dissapointment that comes when a spirit becomes honest enough to see how much harm it caused to others. When a spirit reaches this point, there will be no need for a higher level being to get involved with the judgment process. Some spirits probably get stuck for a while because somewhere inwardly they know better and they are afraid to go through the pain they will go through when they become honest with themselves.



george stone wrote on May 8^th, 2008 at 8:31pm:

So recover,are you saying that we can go ahead and rape and murder,and when we get into the spirit world,we will be loved like someone who did not do these things and lived a good life,ok guys lets do it,god will bless us anyway,

Don't  get worried about a date. You're not going to hurry only because some say 2012 is the year. Remember that kinda year 2000's hysteria? Very similar. Don't trust anyone who claims there is a time limit to ascend, that's ridiculous. Try to be good, and that's all. You have all the time you need.

Spooky

2012 is the date that the Mayan Calendar gives us. The Mayan shamans we believe had great insights into the transformative power of the cosmos and they formulated a very precise calendar around this. December 21, 2012 is the end of a long cycle and those who really seem informed about the topic say there's nothing to fear. 2012 is about transition to a higher level of consciousness and spirituality, if this is true and I believe in it, should be welcomed with open arms, not feared. The earth will be directly aligned with the centre of the milky way galaxy which contains the transformative power of the cosmos. Those who resist may not make it in this life (but hey, you're spirit you never really die so don't worry) through due to the physical earth changes that come about as the earth comes into alignment with the milky way centre point.

The key is not resisting the chance to evolve and change for the better. If you go with the tide you'll be swept the right way. You can control it to a certain extent, if you have the right intention - then you have a path to ascension  8-)

As for the question in the topic: yes I believe we do have an afterlife experience regardless of whether we reincarnate soon or not. Time doesn't really mean anything in the astral worlds, its only important from our linear time viewpoint in physical life so even if you have what seems like eons in spirit you could come back to earth or wherever in a few years after your last life. Atleast that's my understanding what from I've heard, read and dreamt  :P

Werner,


We have always existed, from the Alpha point moment expanding outward towards the Omega point of infinity, but never quite reaching it, because infinity is impossible even for God.

We are just caught up in ever revolving moments of continues “Nows” Some of the "Moments" or "Nows" spin at tremendous speed (the best analogy I can give) and others so slowly that momentum is almost imperceptible. This is what metaphysics often refer to as synchronicity and varying vibrating realities.

The Spins are what we perceive as time, time is an illusion there is only momentum

This is what I believe each revolving "Moment or Nows" Are expressions of incarnations

alan



alan

Greetings!

Alan said:
"The Spins are what we perceive as time, time is an illusion there is only momentum "

The Spins!  I like that , I like the whole sentence, but I don't know why.  Maybe it is a rote (a la Monroe) for me.
Alan, would you, or anyone please talk about time as spin and momentum?

Bets

Good question that is.. I honestly don't know , but I tend to believe what you "sow you shall reap" in return..

peace and love

I don't believe there is a cut off date.  I believe the date 2012 is more of the beginning than it is the end.  I feel this is the date which begins the widespread knowledge of our true inner reality, our greater reality.  I believe it will also be the start of widespread contact with ETs, these ETs actually being later simultaneous incarnations of ourselves, or other aspects of our higher-selves/entity essences.  

I also believe that the ones who are not ready for this type of experience, or spiritually prepared for this new type of life, new type of world, may not survive the many natural cotastrophies which will occur, for unconsciously, on a more advanced level of consciousness, they will recognize their inablity to handle this experience and be drawn to a way out.  This last part is not as concrete in my mind as the former thoughts, however, but I do believe it to be a possibility.  

People will begin to see that their experiences are created by their thoughts and beliefs, they will become aware of their reality on other levels of existence, in other dimensions, they will become more aware of their inner being, their greater being, their higher self, and realize the true meaning of their existence.  This framework for spiritual evolution is biologically uncoded into our physical being, as it is in the physical universe as well.

When I attended Guidelines at the Monroe Institute, I had a session in the Prep TMI lab booth.  The booth is environmentally sound proof for a deeper meditation/obe.  The message I received from my "higher self" was in the year 2010 we will be contacted by a higher intelligence and it will be our decision as to advance and heighten our vibrational aptitude or reject it.  It is also my understanding that the ORBS we are seeing (more often through photographs we have taken) are pure higher intelligent thought forms that have already started to prepare us for the cosmic alignment which will influence the nature of our planet.  If we do not adhere to the "warnings" thereof--- then the planet as we know it will be destroyed.
Every being has a choice---to incarnate or to continue in another realm/dimension.  There is no stop-point for spirit/soul/essence.  We may continue on to the higher realm via instruction and greater learning, or we may choose to incarnate back to this planet for it's remaining existence.  As for punishment and reward in the afterlife-- you will be your most critical judge.  You will suffer any consequences or rejoice in your rewards, accordingly, after which you will advance to the realm of your choice.  

Blink I'm smiling at your comments..some of us speaking of maybe a naive mindset, were waiting for a spaceship one time to take them away from this place...I think I know how they must have felt, but it speaks of a mindset desiring a quick fix spiritually..at the same time watching and waiting to see what happens at the dot of Jan.1st 2012, I suspect nothing will be noticeable that is not noticeable right now at this moment. down through the ages there have been here and there someone holding up a sign "this is the end."

2012 may just be another one of those "this is the end." maybe it's just that we be recognizing the only real constant around here is the changing of the times. inevitabley time marches on and we with it, somebody said go with the flow, that sounds good to me.

I do believe we already are experiencing the effects of a shift in consciousness versus waiting around for the shift to just happen. but as a believer in the 100th monkey theory, well, you and I tend to rub off on one another, must be a good thing.

I did a star trek simile mind merge with a friend and came back with his knowledge, according to him everything that's been said on this thread has truth to it, it's just that we are all busy doing personal interpretations which make it seem we contradict each other..not really. there seems to be enough "room" in the universe for all projections and scenarios and yes, opinions, to exist. according to my friend, I asked him what's ahead? concerning planetary upheavals and the shift in consciousness which includes the end of the Mayan calendar. What he said I've come to accept, that an undesignated number of shall we say, units of consciousness will slide into a new dimension of life habitat.

what that means in detail, I cannot say, but it sounded to me like he was saying one day you are living this life and everything is familiar, and you have your habitual activities and certain others you interact with as your basis. Next, in a twinkling of an eye, one day you wake up and everything "out there" is the same and the same people, everything is still familiar in your surroundings, but at the same time, there is this feeling that everything is new, shiny and bright. its like waking up after you've died, I suppose you could say, and here you are, but you say to yourself I know I was just dead. wow, another chance to live. how cool is that?

Don't forget only a part of us projects down here as a probe. not to confuse anyone. I've always known not all of myself is in physical location.

bets, I like Alan's Spins and momentums concept too. that Alan surprises me all the time, the things he comes up with! hug.

Way back in late 70's I didn't get much guidance but one day I remember I did receive a message regarding momentum. this momentum message was that I was in process of gathering momentum, within a time span. It had something to do with increasing energetic frequency of the body, of the mind, of all the bodies. Only in time of linear consequence could this action be done.
Each moment could be seen as a spin.  I see chakras very clearly as spinning objects, all spinning at a different rate, ascension is a process of a naturally occurring faster spin until all the chakras are in sync and this gathers the momentum. this just my theory, subject to change without warning!

as for reincarnation, I sincerely wish to revisit the 50's and sing for free on a street corner with my buddies. in harmony. we might make a record too.
Think I can't? I think I can. I think the history periods can be relived if desired.

as to people who have hurt someone without intentionally doing that, as R says, this life is a massive challenge for many, it's easy to go down the wrong track, then u end up retracing your steps and going all the way back and you know you'd have done it differently if you could have known then what you know now, these are not held accountable and judged but welcomed home even as the prodigal son was welcomed despite he had squandered everything. You could see it as PUL, in this analogy, No father in heaven would turn away from his son returning home.

the ones George is talking about, there are a few who intentionally did wrong..but just a few comparatively speaking in terms of the population of the entire Earth, these others are very few who inflict pain because they relish seeing their victims suffering. this is a particular severe dysfunction and these are the ones would put themselves in their own areas to bring suffering to themselves as they are needing to understand we are all one and what we do to another returns to us in like form eventually if we continue to act in perverted ways. Forgiveness can even reach these souls once they realize they have chosen the ways of death, instead of the ways of life.

the amazing thing about the human race is it's ability to be transforming itself and it's desire to find out what PUL really is. these yearnings are like substance of momentum manifesting.

love...nice thread...geez, got me spinning like  a top.

It is important to note that the date is actually December 21st, 2012. Its just that 2012 by itself is easier to remember. Leading up to the date we are experiencing a shift in conscious both a personal and collective level and the manifestation of various tsunamis and large scale earthquakes is part of the shift of energy required to bring about a new level of consciousness and connectedness to our cosmic heart and source in the centre of the milky way galaxy.

Neversaydie.


Quote:

It is important to note that the date is actually December 21st, 2012. Its just that 2012 by itself is easier to remember

Just two days before my birthday and I am excited. I would have used up my alloted to score and ten, if I am still around and it would be good to excape some of the bad things in this reality

Alysia

Quote:

Each moment could be seen as a spin.  I see chakras very clearly as spinning objects, all spinning at a different rate, ascension is a process of a naturally occurring faster spin until all the chakras are in sync and this gathers the momentum. this just my theory, subject to change without warning

Absolitely true. each moment is a spin and these spins in reality are the real expressions of the time illusion, We just spin and spin back to God at greater and greater vibrations, untill we resonate with Source. "Everything moves"

love

alan

concerning retrievals, we use the term "stuck" which means not moving. Not moving from a certain mindset. or belief. stationary.

so that's how I got the idea about movement, to move, or assist really, movement, through PUL to the retrievee.

thanks for your inference about spins Alan. makes sense.

Hi guys,

about 2012 the last few nights I have had experiences in my nightly explorations (including the apocryphal dream of the other night) that there is most definitely some significant worldwide change coming very soon.

Unfortunately not good for everybody, I feel the absolute urgency for thoughts of light by the initiate to be sent into the looming darkness.

I know one thing, Aliens are soon going to make their presence on the world stage and the first encounter will not be friendly.

Aliens from remote parts of the Universe are not like us at all in appearance as some. UFO buffs would have us believe. They are separated by millions or billions of light years from us and evolved under weird unearthly like conditions. We are not the highest mortal beings on the Universal ladder, as some would have us believe. Indeed to some very advanced beings we can barely be recognized at sentient entities. Some are so large compared to us; they can be thousands of miles in diameter for example and would need their version of a microscope just to see us apparently crawling around randomly. I hope they do not step on us. We are just not as important in the grand order of things as we would like to believe

alan  

Alan wrote that the first encounter with aliens won't be friendly. What about the second encounter? Haven't we already had some encounters? Indentcat wrote that she was told by her higher self that contact would be made in 2010 and the contact will advise us that we need to grow. In Cosmic Journeys Rosalind Mcknight wrote that friendly aliens look out for us.  Howard Storm wrote that there are unfriendly aliens, but the angels that look out for us are more powerful. I've had three OBEs that served the purpose of letting me know that I don't have to worry about unfriendly aliens. I figure this extends to other people.

Rosalind Mcknight wrote something that is similar to what Identcat wrote, only with more details. There are friendly aliens that won't allow us to destroy ourselves because they found out in the past that when a planet does so,  many souls get end up in a stuck state, and this has a negative effect on other parts of the universe. It takes some time for the clean up work to be accomplished.

I look at it this way, if there are unfriendly aliens, there are higher levels of consciousness that are aware of what they have in mind. I figure these higher levels of consciousness and the higher level beings they work with, would be able to find a number of ways to prevent unfriendly alien beings from inteferring with our free will.

It might seem contradictory to state that friendly aliens might intefere with our free will by stepping in and not allowing us to destroy ourselves, but in this case they would be doing so for our welfare and the good of the rest of the universe. The hope is that we will straighten ourselves out without their help.

Recoverer,

You said


Quote:

Alan wrote that the first encounter with aliens won't be friendly. What about the second encounter? Haven't we already had some encounters? Indentcat wrote that she was told by her higher self that contact would be made in 2010 and the contact will advise us that we need to grow.

Yes, the first encounter will made evident to the whole world by every possible medium of communication with happen at the exact same moment worldwide. In other words, for example every television channel on earth will be interrupted be these advanced at the very same moment beings revealing what they want from humanity. I saw people racing away from cities to escape some threat from them.

It is a continuation of my dream in another thread. These beings look more like lizards yes lizards than any thing else, I can put my mind to. I did not get this idea from the likes of David Ickes how I scoffed at a while back.

I don’t think they are reptiles, as we know them as they had what appeared to be armor like impenetrable greenish skin. I saw vain attempts to shoot these things with guns, the bullets just fell off their hides.  

Heck this sounds crazy I know but I have being having these vivid lucid dreams for the past few nights, in Technicolor that are so clear it is just like a movie playing off, but at great speed through time, jumping back and forward through different moments of linear time.

It is true that there have been many encounters with UFO and alien beings from other dimensions in the past and these are still going on. The  friendly visiters are beings are blackish and very thin being and tall by our standards,  they are not the servant "small grays"

These friendly entities are the "watchers" I referred to in Blinks thread "After Alan we will all be together again".They are the ones that will come to our help. Of course many advanced souls will incarnate before this happens. if they want to!!

These beings are friendly and will arrive in time to help humankind in this dilemma

Well that is my peace for today, I will dream and explore the continuing saga as it unfolds and post what I see in the future for those who don’t think I have gone off my rocker.

We in the forum OBE go into ethereal realms daily, but the reality of the material physical universe will affect us until we escape this mortal frame. We must not become so ethereal minded that we are no earthly good.
Alan

Alan McDougall wrote on May 28^th, 2008 at 8:17pm:

Recoverer, You said Quote: Alan wrote that the first encounter with aliens won't be friendly. What about the second encounter? Haven't we already had some encounters? Indentcat wrote that she was told by her higher self that contact would be made in 2010 and the contact will advise us that we need to grow. Yes, the first encounter will made evident to the whole world by every possible medium of communication with happen at the exact same moment worldwide. In other words, for example every television channel on earth will be interrupted be these advanced at the very same moment beings revealing what they want from humanity. I saw people racing away from cities to escape some threat from them. It is a continuation of my dream in another thread. These beings look more like lizards yes lizards than any thing else, I can put my mind to. I did not get this idea from the likes of David Ickes how I scoffed at a while back. I don’t think they are reptiles, as we know them as they had what appeared to be armor like impenetrable greenish skin. I saw vain attempts to shoot these things with guns, the bullets just fell off their hides.   Heck this sounds crazy I know but I have being having these vivid lucid dreams for the past few nights, in Technicolor that are so clear it is just like a movie playing off, but at great speed through time, jumping back and forward through different moments of linear time. It is true that there have been many encounters with UFO and alien beings from other dimensions in the past and these are still going on. The  friendly visiters are beings are blackish and very thin being and tall by our standards,  they are not the servant "small grays" These friendly entities are the "watchers" I referred to in Blinks thread "After Alan we will all be together again".They are the ones that will come to our help. Of course many advanced souls will incarnate before this happens. if they want to!! These beings are friendly and will arrive in time to help humankind in this dilemma Well that is my peace for today, I will dream and explore the continuing saga as it unfolds and post what I see in the future for those who don’t think I have gone off my rocker. We in the forum OBE go into ethereal realms daily, but the reality of the material physical universe will affect us until we escape this mortal frame. We must not become so ethereal minded that we are no earthly good. Alan

That is very interesting Alan.. David Icke isn't crazy either, he's not lying there are reptoids out there.. I know I've never seen one, but I believe this man is telling the truth.. How can there be so many reports by people and especially, people in the military.. Some people have been killed for exposing these reptoids and the government..  Just remember folks, dinosaurs lived way before us.. I don't think they all were wiped out like the scientists tell us.. So, you guys now darn well that they could evolve to be super-intelligent beings.. For the good or for the worse..

peace n' love

Also, people please stop worrying about 2012 (Dec. 21st.) Nothing is going to happen, besides maybe contacts with aliens.. Let's just say we will know more about aliens, than we ever knew before.. But hell if, the world is going to end.. That is just retarded for God to do.. Why would God create life and than destroy it?

peace n' love

Brigs,

Welcome to the forum you will find much of interest if you stay.


Quote:

Also, people please stop worrying about 2012 (Dec. 21st.) Nothing is going to happen, besides maybe contacts with aliens.. Let's just say we will know more about aliens, than we ever knew before.. But hell if, the world is going to end.. That is just retarded for God to do.. Why would God create life and than destroy it?

I did not see a date and maybe 2012 will come and go like just so many other world end predictions.

What I saw was some future events that were played out over a fairly long period of time, not just one year.

God id not going to destroy the earth, but humanity will leave and migrate out into the vastness of they universe, and it will return to its pristine original beauty for another life form long after we are gone

Regards

Alan

Thank you, Recoverer--
Also, Bob Monroe and Bruce Moen had peaceful contacts with higher intelligent beings: all positive and willing to help planet earth and it's beings.  My vote goes for the friendly encounter!!  

Regarding David Icke, I've read very little, but early on he troubled me because he seemed too conspiracy theory oriented. The main thing that bugged me about him is that he has a tendency to demonize people.

Later on I found that he denies that the person of Jesus Christ ever existed. Yet in his first book, "Truth Vibrations" he wrote that Jesus didn't die on the cross. Rather, instead of being given water while on the cross he was given a drug that caused him to pass out and make it seem as if he was dead.  Why the contradiction Mr. Icke? Either Jesus Christ the person existed or he didn't?

For anybody who has been at this forum for a while they know that I believe that the person of Jesus Christ existed, because I have had a number of experiences and have received spirit messages which stated that he did exist. They also showed that he did in fact die on the cross.

It is odd how different new age sources contradict each other when it comes to whether Jesus was crucified:

Jane Roberts Seth says a mentally disturbed man was drugged and crucified instead of Jesus. Jane Roberts Seth use the gospels to make her/their point (This explanation appears either in Seth Speaks or A Nature of a Personal Reality).  This is odd, considering that gospels clearly show that Jesus knew that he was going to be crucified. Jane Roberts Seth contradicted her self when she said/wrote this, because in an earlier book she wrote that the crucifixion was a dream event rather than an actual event.

Elias contradicts Jane Roberts Seth by saying that Jesus didn't die at the time of the crucifixion, but lived for a number of years. Jane Roberts Seth wrote/said that Jesus puffed out of existence shortly after a drugged man was (supposedly) crucified in his place.

The lady that supposedly channels her deceased son Matthew states that Jesus wasn't crucified, rather he was whipped.

Sylvia Browne says Jesus was crucified, but he didn't die, I won't go into the details, but she basically made Jesus sound like a whimp who didn't have the courage to be crucified. Her story doesn't support David Icke's story.

So why is it that five well know new age sources of information contradict each other on such a key point? Because of the life changing experiences I've had with Christ there is no way I will trust these sources.

One time I asked my spirit guidance about David Icke, and I was shown the image of a man I knew while working at a hospital as a volunteer.  Before this man died of brain cancer, he was an unbalanced conspiracy theorist who demonized lots of people. One time he told me he wish he had a lot of money so he could blow up England. He had a thing against protestants. Perhaps rather than demonizing people David should find a way to unify them. A hard thing to do when you accuse others of being lizards.

Alan:

If friendly aliens are there to help us, why wouldn't they help us before the unfriendly aliens attack us?

If unfriendly aliens have it in mind to attack us and have the ability to do so, then I wonder why they haven't already done so.

thanks for the quote Shss  one more time for posterity "The idea of karma is a matrix myth to confirm a belief in evolution over 'time' and encourage a state of guilt and self loathing"  David Icke


now I'm thinking that evolution is merely a stage set up we all agreed to step into using effect and consequences, karmic thinking, along with the guilt foisted upon us by misperceiving religious doctrine. one day we just get tired of participating and exit stage left. Karma can be said to be building our own houses to live in now, and stepping into an astral version of that same house upon transition, minus the taxes. In that sense I do not believe either in hell nor heaven but somewhere in between where we create together what it is we desire.

Yet i do subscribe to the new souls being born and utilizing Earth station as their playground and school.
I can hardly foresee a finite number of souls in the universal perspective, if I view life itself as an expansive process of All That is breathing out, as well breaths inward it's own. Lizards included.
_____

I tend to join R and Cat. my belief is that certain aliens of high order are none other than our own future selves re-visiting a past circumstance in order to free us from negative consequence, such as running amuck with our various bombs and chemicals. We are being made aware..awareness itself is a very useful tool for development.

Alan, you seem to instigate fear in the populace, I suspect unintentionally. you have a lot of good news for us, that is what I like to hear, rather than reporting your visions solely in the negative, sensational descriptives, do be honest, but concentrate on what are the positives within the vision to give forth of?  we would rather, (I think) like to discuss our options for preparation for these things. I know you can do that, I've seen you do it. u r probably in training to do good works in your communications, as it's clear you're getting more info than the rest of us and I don't dispute your visions, nor reject you as loony, not at all, I mention interpretations of visions are more important than the vision itself.

and we create our reality this way through our agreement on the interpretation. therefore the future, speaking of linear time, is never set in stone but flexible according to our agreements in consensus.
in that way one can see your visions as not crazy, but interpreted through your very own special way of looking at the world.
Just be aware, if I may be allowed to say this to you, Fear will be our downfall in every single case, so if you would be careful, there are some need your guidance within positive measure.
people have a tendency to get panicked. no, not me, but our most intelligent leaders fall under the fear cloud, which keeps us from gaining more awareness of what must be done.

In the meantime, WE are the aliens. my opinion.

just read R's post about various beliefs about the man JC. All of these things are people's beliefs in the end; I think if we can go forward, as a group, we can agree on one thing and start from the premise that JC is an ascended master..therefore, he does not need to come here and live within physical matter again.
to downgrade a master in any way is inexcusable and I get angry. I believe masters want us to know they have been with the human experience and felt all the fears and struggles that we have felt, but at the same time humans have a way of making the god-realized into the human image, which is called making graven images.

It would please me to know that JC showed us the body is nothing really, and can be infused with life once you get to the point of mastering life, with the creative force which we are in fact.
NDE's point to our ability to come back to life in this day and age, through the spirit of some mission to impart.

We cannot doubt JC's mission. You either hate him or you love him. it's our choice.

As a new ager, I've come to believe in many dimensions existing side by side, where many Christed ones could enact any scenario, such as JC putting himself in more than one physical locale at any given moment...Him being the many, not just the single finger of a single body incarnated in a single time period...therefore he could be All of these reports.

but certainly not a whimp...excuse me? that's ridiculous. He had perfect love. He had absolutely no fear because where love is, there is no fear.

Fear is what we mortally inclined people worship as the truth. and we use fear to control others, either subconsciously, or consciously, the more insidious variety is those who insist that others believe as they believe.

we do not know everything with our puny brains, so we need to study everything and observe, but not get caught up in it emotionally, just pick out what resonates and throw the rest away.

but surely, we need help, what I call spirit residing, when we read other's works, we need to ask what it is we should read and what it is we should avoid.  again, it's a free will choice, and you will certainly know them by their love.

Love is the password.

Regarding us being aliens, a few years ago I went out of body and willed myself to go to where my disk/soul group is located. I flew loops around what appeared to be several clusters of stars. I figured these were spirits.  I didn't see what I saw with a lot of clarity. Next I found myself in a beautiful lagoon that was surrounded by green cliffs (green because of the foilage).  There were creatures of various bright colors within the lagoon.  Sort of like Jelly Fish but different. It seemed as if these creatures had something to do with my past, I don't know when. While I was in this lagoon I saw things with a lot of clarity. I still haven't figured out the meaning. This was back in the day when I experienced out of body experiences with all the effects. Not necessary, but kind of fun. Definitely exciting.

Another note.

I asked about unfriendly aliens this past weekend. I was shown an image of a starship. It flew under a table and out into space away from earth until it dissapeared. It might not be obvious, but going by past messages I've received, I understood that under the table meant that unfriendly aliens aren't going to harm us.

So why do we receive different messages? I dunno, but I hope Alan's is wrong. Perhaps Alan was showed a possibility. Sometimes dreams do represent possibilities, not actualities.

You're welcome Identcat:

Robert Monroe did write that there are some aliens who evolved differently than us and don't think much of us. However, he also wrote that his I-there told him that he's connected to his I-there and his I-there is connected to many other I-theres, so he doesn't have to worry. I figure all of our I-theres are connected together and this provides us with great spiritual strength.  They also advised Robert to be careful about how he makes use of his sensors. If you don't like how something feels, don't tune into it.



identcat wrote on May 29^th, 2008 at 11:08am:

Thank you, Recoverer-- Also, Bob Monroe and Bruce Moen had peaceful contacts with higher intelligent beings: all positive and willing to help planet earth and it's beings.  My vote goes for the friendly encounter!!

Here are two viewpoints David Icke presents that completely contradict each other. How can they both be true?

From his website:

Sunday, 25 February 2007  
'Jesus Found'. Oh My God, Really?


'Cameron's efforts go a step beyond the Da Vinci Code allegations that Jesus had a child. In the past, A-O has reported on the Da Vinci Code and Knight's Templar stories and predicted that these projects were illuminated efforts that would become the basis for future claims to discredit Christianity and the Biblical accounts of Jesus' life, death and resurrection. That A-O prediction appears to be coming true in the next seven days.

Yes, it would appear that a major, earthshaking announcment of historic proportions is about to take place next Monday, when a news conference will be held to announce the discovery of the Tomb of Jesus Christ of Nazareth as well as that of his family members. '

......................................................  

All this is double-bluff, smoke and mirrors. There was no Jesus, the story is a repeat of a tale that goes back to Babylon and was told in endless cultures long before Christianity using different names for the hero. It is a symbolic narrative relating to Sun worship.

So, whichever version of 'Jesus' that people peddle the following questions need to be asked: (1) How can someone who did not exist be 'God's only begotten son' (Sun) and be 'coming back on a cloud' (like the Sun) to save us all? (2) How could someone who did not exist have children with Mary Magdalene and how could she therefore take the bloodline to France to become the Merovingian kings? (3) How can the body of someone who did not exist be found in a tomb near Jerusalem?

It's all lies within lies within lies to divert attention from the real 'revelation' - there was no Jesus and the Christian religion, like those of Judaism, Islam and all the rest, are manufactured belief systems to keep their advocates in mental and emotional  servitude while being played off against each other to divide and rule.  

Below is an article which speaks as if Jesus Christ did exist, even though he lies about what took place during the crucifixion:

http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Age-Of-Aquarius---Part-1-David-Icke&id=572997

I am going to get Old Dood to join this thread. He was wanting this type of interaction as he spends much of his time on spiritual/alien type forums and has some information to pass onto us, I'm thinking he does.

I had an obe not too long ago showed me he knows a little more than us on the subject and maybe able to help us get a clearer picture. In the obe, the aliens depicted were ...us...at least they were depicted as looking like us, like a human looks. I saw no lizards.  The aliens were very friendly and waved down to the ground from their ship smiling.
I remember not being surprised as if I expected their visit. They spotlighted us, a symbolic feature of recognizing that mankind is progressing and they want to help.

It could also mean there is another planet with similar environment to produce similar dna features of the human as they just appeared as distant family.

Dood was pointing to their ship in great excitement. I think this means I have to go get him.
Scuse me!

:)

A note about Monroe's home planet. He was given an experience where the challenge on his home planet was nil. they played games all day. everyone was a happy camper. He had returned to see where he came from. Returning did not yield up a sense of being comfortable and happy, as he had been it seemed long ago.
I suppose it seemed all rather meaningless, after having partaken of Earth with all it's diversity for achieving soul growth and overcoming certain challenges and obstackles.

I immediately resonated with this story. I could see myself on such a planet. I still carry that certain quality all the residents had of light hearted playfulness and all were as one.
His nostalgia was replaced by something like wonder, and he just couldn't return home, if you know what I'm trying to express, is that humans are always gathering experiences which broaden their horizons as we mature.

Having come from this other planet, it would explain why some folks cannot adjust here and check out early..it is a difficult climate to undertake...all this to say, if you survive, you must have some strength within you which got you this far..that strength can grow as we make each new day worthwhile for each other.

Alysia:

I get the impression that Old Dood has looked into the matter a lot. I haven't done so, because I figure there is so much contradictory information out there I don't want to get entangled within it. I prefered to rely on what I can receive myself, and as I stated, going by what I received, there are viewpoints out there that are more fear based than they need to be.

I really don't care for viewpoints that demonize entire groups of people. I don't care if such a viewpoint comes from Christianity, Islam, David Icke or wherever. I found one article which states that some skin heads and Nazis really like David Icke because some of his viewpoints are anti-semetic. Is he doing more to unify or to seperate?

this thread is getting hairy. first we speak of aliens then we speak of JC. maybe JC was a highly evolved alien? on a mission we can be certain.

and if they found some bones, how could science ascertain it was his bones? wouldn't they have to find a living relative to do that? I personally believe he transmuted his physical energy system into light and this was called ascension.

Scientists and leaders all have egos. egos may be loving, or they may be dominate and controlling. but I don't believe there is a conspiracy to control anyone going on. it's more of a case of the blind leading the blind as far as government policies, and church policies as well.
enlightenment is a very personally tailored program..basically empower each other with PUL while observing the world, but not buying into possible propaganda, however well intentioned it might seem. We each need to look at the heart path which has it's own intelligence and will never mislead you.

it is a grave error to consider JC as "the only begotten son." the way I see it, his disc is massive and holds all degree of human evolvement within it, but he shares this with other ascended masters like himself, and Christ consciousness is the result of his efforts. Christ consciousness is for all, no matter what their beliefs are, and the Buddha is also Christed consciousness.
I am saying JC is misrepresented as the only son. I am saying ALL OF US are the SON.

The Father within us is the Son manifest within us. His sole message was to empower us to do the works he was doing, in order to do those works we MUST see that we are capable of doing what he did, in oneness, though, not by seeing ourselves as guilty worms who can never stand beside an ascended master. In PUL, it equalizes.
In all your getting said he, get love. don't hate them that hate you. forgive them, for they have no idea of the suffering they bring. this is what salvation really means, is anyone who hates is a lost soul and they can get stuck in that.

retrievers are the forgiving element which brings them home to truth that we are one. No one gets home safe until we all lend each other a hand up.

I don't understand why more people did not notice how he healed the sick and they were well, and now you tell me they are trying to find his bones?

too much identification with the body is not a good thing. It is the spirit that counts and is eternal. the media is distracting from priorities, my opinion. come out from among them graciously. my opinion.

love, alysia

recoverer wrote on May 29^th, 2008 at 3:47pm:

Alysia: I get the impression that Old Dood has looked into the matter a lot. I haven't done so, because I figure there is so much contradictory information out there I don't want to get entangled within it. I prefered to rely on what I can receive myself, and as I stated, going by what I received, there are viewpoints out there that are more fear based than they need to be. I really don't care for viewpoints that demonize entire groups of people. I don't care if such a viewpoint comes from Christianity, Islam, David Icke or wherever. I found one article which states that some skin heads and Nazis really like David Icke because some of his viewpoints are anti-semetic. Is he doing more to unify or to seperate?

I understand, my point is Old Dood would be speaking to a few younger persons here, as he has stated to me that spirituality and outer space study are related. I'm not one for his interests and spend very little time thinking about aliens, except to reflect that we are all One, and that there is a plan unfolding and it includes all universal occupants.

So I welcome his seaching manner and would like to see what he has picked up. I have not read Icke's, he seems to have some good things to say and also some things which I do not accept at face value, but isn't that the same idea with most any study that one undertakes?

you use what is useful...but you don't condemn the author for what is not useful..it's just another sister or brother going along their path. listen only to your heart. you can know when something sets you free and when something binds you in. its your spirit.

Alysia said:
"So I welcome his seaching manner and would like to see what he has picked up. I have not read Icke's, he seems to have some good things to say and also some things which I do not accept at face value, but isn't that the same idea with most any study that one undertakes?

you use what is useful...but you don't condemn the author for what is not useful..it's just another sister or brother going along their path. listen only to your heart. you can know when something sets you free and when something binds you in. its your spirit.[/quote]"


I respond: It is hard to imagine that David Icke is receiving his information from divine inspiration.  Would divine inspiration lead to such contradictory and defamatory comments about Jesus?  It seems to me he's making things up. Leading people astray. He has a cult like following and people put him on a pedestal.  If he is intentionally misleading people at the very least his actions should be condemmed. If he wants people who are willing to question what he says to speak of him in an admirable way, then he should present himself in an admiral way. Plus, plus, considering how negatively he speaks of many, many people, accusing them of being lizards, perhaps it is a bit much for him to expect people to speak of him in an admirable way.  

I think we all have a little divine inspiration along the way. No exceptions. That's why I agree with you, Recoverer, on your point that demonizing other people is not an admirable quality in anyone.

Every single human being has something to say to us, and it is difficult at times to judge its importance.

love, blink

LaffingRain wrote on May 29^th, 2008 at 4:05pm:

recoverer wrote on May 29th, 2008 at 3:47pm: Alysia: I get the impression that Old Dood has looked into the matter a lot. I haven't done so, because I figure there is so much contradictory information out there I don't want to get entangled within it. I prefered to rely on what I can receive myself, and as I stated, going by what I received, there are viewpoints out there that are more fear based than they need to be. I really don't care for viewpoints that demonize entire groups of people. I don't care if such a viewpoint comes from Christianity, Islam, David Icke or wherever. I found one article which states that some skin heads and Nazis really like David Icke because some of his viewpoints are anti-semetic. Is he doing more to unify or to seperate? I understand, my point is Old Dood would be speaking to a few younger persons here, as he has stated to me that spirituality and outer space study are related. I'm not one for his interests and spend very little time thinking about aliens, except to reflect that we are all One, and that there is a plan unfolding and it includes all universal occupants. So I welcome his seaching manner and would like to see what he has picked up. I have not read Icke's, he seems to have some good things to say and also some things which I do not accept at face value, but isn't that the same idea with most any study that one undertakes? you use what is useful...but you don't condemn the author for what is not useful..it's just another sister or brother going along their path. listen only to your heart. you can know when something sets you free and when something binds you in. its your spirit.

Thanks Alysia...
I do not have the answers. In fact I believe we should be searching for the correct questions more then the correct answers first of all.
In order to do that we have to stop thinking in 'Earthly Terms'.  It is a H U G E Universe (Multiverse) and we (human mindset) seriously cannot comprehend all of it.
Not even close...

What I have learned though that there is a whole lot of different 'races' of beings out there.  Some very human looking many that are not but, humanoid.
I have come to accept the fact that the U.S. Government made a deal with a race of beings that are Service to Self. (cirrca 1954)
The U.S. Government ignored the Service to Others race of beings because they would not give the U.S. Government technology for weapons.
The Service to Others type beings where trying to help us spiritually.
The Service to Self beings lied to us and have been the ones that are abducting people and so forth...

If you will notice that we have had a large influx of 'Sightings' ever since the mid 1940's.  Why was that? The Atomic Bomb is why.
Firing off those things not only affects us in our 3rd dimension it also affects beings living in other dimensions too.
It got 'their' attention....Big Time!

I believe we should be asking ourselves why things are happening like they are. First of all you have to look at it like this...there are no coincidences.
Everything happens for a reason so why are we having all of these sightings?  
I firmly believe some of the Service To Others type beings are trying to disclose the fact there are other beings in this universe and on Earth right now.  
However, they cannot fully disclose unless WE start to get OUR own act together.
That it is up to us...the people of this planet.
They are not our Saviors...They leave it up to OUR Freedom of Will/Choice.

If you want more info/data on this then I suggest the Open Minds Forum.  
Link: http://www.openmindsforum.com/
It does not have all the answers either. No one does at this point.
BUT, it is a good place for these kinds of questions.
There are some real thought provoking threads there.
For example there is a thread on the Secret UN meeting last Febuary about UFOs.
There is a whole forum just on the relationship with Religion, UFOs, and the Ancients.
There is a forum on SERPO.
John Lear has his own sub-forum. (Son of the jet designer)

It is thee best forum in my opinion out there on these subjects.
ATS Forum ( Above Top Secret) I believe is compromised by the US Government.
The Open Minds Forum is just that.  It is set up so people can Open their Minds without retaliation.

Also on the subject of 2012 I have posted here before a pretty good video from David Wilcock.
Named: The 2012 Enigma by David Wilcock
Link: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4951448613711060908 (1:35)

It is not a Doom & Gloom video. Very interesting. I like the part about the Pineal Gland and how it is in a lot of our history.

Also one more website that *I* think is one of the best for overall info is Project Camelot.
Link: http://www.projectcamelot.org/
I always suggest the Bob Dean Videos first off....

Hi Dood. This is territory that in absence of personal experience I've tended to stay clear of. But it's compelling stuff.

The questions that come to mind are:

1. Why would a race of enormously powerful beings bother doing a deal with any government?

2. If we're truly about to engage with ETs of any sort,  then what's required of us?

The point about nuclear weapons causing disturbances in realms far beyond our understanding rings true given the quantum basis of everything.

I guess that the same thought came to me recently reading about the zero point field and hopes some scientists have of tapping it as an energy source - since our being is so tied up with it can it actually be wise to mess in such territory?

Our so called technological progress has come from vested interests saying 'ah sure it'll be OK' and forcing stuff into general use - be it nuclear, genetically modified crops, mobile phones and attendant radiation and now this.

We can't run with these global experiments indefinitely, as sooner or later we're going to trigger something with unforeseen but pervasive and irreversible (and maybe even permanent/soul survival) consequences with enormous consequences for us all.

For example, consider the potential consequences of a mass die off of honey bees of the sort that some fear is possible? (others suggest that die offs to date have been local and caused by local events)

It's important to remember that books classified as non-fiction tend to sell better than science fiction. Not to say that aliens don't exist, but people are likely to write books about them for different reasons. Consider Carlos Castaneda's books. They were a hoax. Would they of sold as good if they were published as fictional books?

Hi ya vajra...

Quote:

1. Why would a race of enormously powerful beings bother doing a deal with any government?

Good Question.  Seriously? It will sound like a 1950's B Movie....hehe! Our Blood. (DNA)
These beings have screwed up their own DNA...Bodies...whatever and are using us to try to 'fix it'.
Same for the Cattle Mutilations as well. Something about cattle that fits within their plans.
These beings (grays) from what I have come to understand is that they are clones and can't reproduce like we do anymore.


Quote:

2. If we're truly about to engage with ETs of any sort,  then what's required of us?

Well, this is speaking of the more evolved beings out there.  The Service To Others type.
The Service to Self type are actually behind these beings....spiritualy speaking.
They will work with us once we become more spiritual and stop fighting, killings, destroying the planet, etc.
EDIT: In other words...LEARN TO LOVE ONE ANOTHER!

EDIT TWO: I tend to lean with Alan.  The 'First Contact' openly I believe will be a false contact.
It will be a deception of some kind.  It will be a 'reason' to think that aliens are the Enemy and we must fight them.
It is foolish to even consider 'we' could even beat them in anykind of battle.
They will be made out to be the enemy.  No different then the Russians, Terrorists, etc.
I would warn all peoples about our governments when they spew this dis-information.

If one considers things from a disk viewpoint, could a being like a reptilian do as David Icke suggests and take control of a person's brain? Wouldn't a person's disk do something about this? Are lizzards more powerful than our disks? Do they have more access to our minds than our disk?

Ta Dood. Thanks for that. Joking and being a little facetious, but I guess some obvious responses might be:

(a) why don't they just help themselves to as many people as they want on the quiet anyway? and:

(b) sounds like either way since we're out gunned and the 7th cavalry won't take an interest until we clean up our act that maybe we need to not worry about the big picture and just focus on the knitting.

Don't for one moment feel I'm capable of asking meaningful questions on this though.

Kind of all blows my mind. But then so did the possibility that realities other than the physical existed until I was well into adult life so as ever I guess the game is to stay open but not get hung up on beliefs...

Another point I like to bring up is this....

How did we go from a Horse & Buggy culture to a High Tech culture in less then a 100 years?

Think about it.  'WE' are not all THAT smart. 'WE' had to have some kind of 'help' along the way.
We went from vacuum tubes to micro chips in a very short amount of time.
That tells me we have back-engineered a lot of stuff.
Lasers, Microwaves, Microchips, Wireless communications, Fiber Optics, LEDs, etc.
Tesla developed wireless power back at the turn of the 20th century but we still use poles in the ground to transfer electricity.

Also look at this. Since we have all these new gizmos now then why are we still using 19th century technology to power our vehicles?
Why are we not using cleaner energy? I believe 'they' have been hiding the real tech out there so we are controlled and forced to purchase OIL based energy.
I believe there is Zero-Point Energy out there but, it is kept from us....why? Control of the masses.  

From stating all the high tech stems from aliens it is a little step to believe our thoughts are stemming from aliens. Paranoia anyone?

Old Dood wrote on May 29^th, 2008 at 7:33pm:

Another point I like to bring up is this.... How did we go from a Horse & Buggy culture to a High Tech culture in less then a 100 years? Think about it.  'WE' are not all THAT smart. 'WE' had to have some kind of 'help' along the way. We went from vacuum tubes to micro chips in a very short amount of time. That tells me we have back-engineered a lot of stuff. Lasers, Microwaves, Microchips, Wireless communications, Fiber Optics, LEDs, etc. Tesla developed wireless power back at the turn of the 20th century but we still use poles in the ground to transfer electricity. Also look at this. Since we have all these new gizmos now then why are we still using 19th century technology to power our vehicles? Why are we not using cleaner energy? I believe 'they' have been hiding the real tech out there so we are controlled and forced to purchase OIL based energy. I believe there is Zero-Point Energy out there but, it is kept from us....why? Control of the masses.

 You mention Tesla O.D.   More tech. stuff than most are aware of, can be traced back to his patents and ideas.   He really paved the way for a lot of the stuff you are talking about.  

 Also, a few ancient cultures and teachings talk about a similar thing.  They talk about the cyclic nature of space/time, and how over long periods of time, humanity goes through various stages which correspond to collectively faster or slower vibrating cycles.   Some are dark ages spiritually where ignorance and materialism, especially spiritual ignorance reign, some are golden ages where most of humanity has it's stuff together spiritually and many more people are very intuitive and psychic in nature.  

 For example, the Ages of the Zodiac.   Or the Ages that the Hindus talk about.   These all seem to essentially correspond to Galactic Alignment cycles, as well as even larger and smaller cycles being pertinent.

 The tech explosion can be explained well enough by this, and the fact that as the outer cycle gets faster vibrating in nature, more intuitive Souls can better come through on a more collective level, instead of in certain ages where we get one or two unbelievable geniuses.   Like attracts and begets like, and incarnations oft follow this pattern (though not always).  More spiritually mature souls tend to be more innately intuitive in nature and generally have a more expanded awareness in their physical lives.  

 Genius oft has a lot to do with intuition and nonphysical perception.  Tesla being a great example of that.

 We have been coming up to one of those faster vibrating cycles wherein our system is aligning to the Galactic plane, as well as nearing the Aquarius cusp.    Aquarius is a sign that deals with stuff like groups, mentally intuitive ways of dealing with things (Aquarius being a very intuitive indication, but less "heart" centered than Pisces which is even more psychic in nature), exploration, and communication for example.   It's also kind of the "inventor" sign par excellence.  

  E.T.'s don't need to have given us some technology for this development to have arrived--humans have all the potential that any other group in the Universe has, if they open up and believe enough.    

That being said, i believe and know from my own and my wife's guidance, that positive E.T.'s will share technology with us in the relatively near future when we are spiritually ready and responsible enough for it.  This is also talked about in other sources i trust a lot, like Rosiland A. McKnight's book Cosmic Journeys.  

  What would be known as China now, in the nearish future will be quite the interesting place and hub for contacts of this nature, because eventually what's left of the Chinese people's will have consecrated themselves as channels and workers of the Divine within the Earth beyond that of most groups in the Earth at the time (they will become wayshowers and an example to the rest of the world).

Old Dood wrote on May 29^th, 2008 at 7:07pm:

EDIT TWO: I tend to lean with Alan.  The 'First Contact' openly I believe will be a false contact. It will be a deception of some kind.  It will be a 'reason' to think that aliens are the Enemy and we must fight them.

 I honestly would not be surprised if there was some kind of scare set up tactic by one or more gov's along that nature.  Particularly, i wouldn't be surprised if the U.S. gov. didn't do something like this.   Anyone remember Monroe's first book and the precog. glimpses in it, kind of reminds me of one of those where there are these ships which he didn't think were "ours", but which blasted building windows or something (it's been a long while since i read his first book).  

 Btw, i had a really interesting and vivid dream where i was communicating with a couple different groups of E.T.'s and i was told that sometime in the decade of 2010 (not the exact year of 2010), that there will be public contacts.   I don't believe it can be pinpointed to an exact year, because it's variable in nature and depends on how we are progressing as a collective, etc.  

 But they can give semi accurate ranges, like they gave me.  So i assume what they meant was that sometime from 2010 to the end of 2019 there will be major public contacts and inter communications.  

 For the record, i do not believe that all E.T.'s are our future selves, though in a sense they are analogous to our future or far past selves which were and will be more intune than we are now.   But literally us coming back from the future, well maybe one group or what not, but not all.  

spooky2 wrote on May 29^th, 2008 at 10:21pm:

From stating all the high tech stems from aliens it is a little step to believe our thoughts are stemming from aliens. Paranoia anyone?

First of all Alysia ASKED me to comment....OK?

Secondly....when did *I* say ALL High Tech came from Aliens?
I said "WE had to have some kind of 'help' along the way...."
Of course there is development of technology by ourselves.
However, we sure came along hard and fast in less then 100 years.
It is not that hard to see that we back engineered many things.
So I do not appreciate being called paranoid.  
That is a typical response I get from debunkers that have nothing else to offer but ridicule.
It is an old song and dance and quite frankly I am not in the mood for it.

ETs have been around for a very long time. Even before we were in tribes.
Our DNA has been messed with. Enhanced from our earliest beginnings.

Like I stated before you can find more information at the links I provided.
It is up to you to 'choose' to read and learn more about it.
If you choose not to then so be it.
I made the choice to research this more.
I simply 'know' there is more to our lives then this 3D bit.
It is ALL connected in some way.

wrote on May 29^th, 2008 at 10:53pm:

Old Dood wrote on May 29th, 2008 at 7:07pm: EDIT TWO: I tend to lean with Alan.  The 'First Contact' openly I believe will be a false contact. It will be a deception of some kind.  It will be a 'reason' to think that aliens are the Enemy and we must fight them.  I honestly would not be surprised if there was some kind of scare set up tactic by one or more gov's along that nature.  Particularly, i wouldn't be surprised if the U.S. gov. didn't do something like this.   Anyone remember Monroe's first book and the precog. glimpses in it, kind of reminds me of one of those where there are these ships which he didn't think were "ours", but which blasted building windows or something (it's been a long while since i read his first book).    Btw, i had a really interesting and vivid dream where i was communicating with a couple different groups of E.T.'s and i was told that sometime in the decade of 2010 (not the exact year of 2010), that there will be public contacts.   I don't believe it can be pinpointed to an exact year, because it's variable in nature and depends on how we are progressing as a collective, etc.    But they can give semi accurate ranges, like they gave me.  So i assume what they meant was that sometime from 2010 to the end of 2019 there will be major public contacts and inter communications.

I have read that the 'date' is more around 2017.

To be a bit more serious Dood. My personal sense is that it's impossible to ignore the UFO and related thing given the numbers of sightings all around the world. I'm just disappointed I've not managed one yet, despite our having a major one a few years ago near my house while I was asleep. (one of those enormous triangle shaped craft hovered over the local horse race course about two miles away for a while at about 2.00am, and was reportedly seen by many)

But it's hard to figure out - there's perhaps some signs around that what manifests is in some way linked with our expectations of what should or might be. That for example what the ancients saw coincided more with the expectations of those times. (it could of course too be that the current lot only arrived recently)

I wonder if it's not all a part of the picture that suggests that the entire reality we perceive is mind made - in the end the result of some interplay between its creative and universal nature, and our perception. As demonstrated by the way that when we become conscious of stuff all sorts of amazing synchronicities start to occur - or at least we become aware of the existence of stuff now that we're looking for it. (the number 23, or the number 111 are cases in point)

Robert Anton Wilson writes about this in Cosmic Trigger - that 'reality' or what we manifest/perceive can be and is in the most literal way triggered by what we knowingly or unknowingly intend or believe, or want to perceive, or are being induced to perceive. As in you want channellings from Sirius - you got them. From the Pleiadians - no problem. From Jesus or God - no problem. From a variety of Buddhas - at your service. All are possibly just deeper realities manifesting in a form that matches our pre-conceptions. Trouble is that most of the time we're not in command of our minds - bearing in mind that 'mind' despite perceived separations is ultimately one and extends far beyond our individual selves - and so are not conscious  of what we're requesting on the cosmic ordering service.

Deepak Chopra uses the term unconscious 'pre-cognitive commitment' to describe this phenomenon. The idea being that before we ever get as far as making sense of the data we receive through our senses we've decided what we want to perceive. Or perhaps been influenced by higher mind to want. That we can (a) out of the void bring into reality whatever we want, but (b) that what we perceive is only one of an infinite number of possibilities.

That's not to rubbish any of the traditions built on the above. Just to suggest that mind and the stuff from which form arises exists at a more fundamental quantum level that's incomprehensible to our time/space relative minds, and that it talks to us (talks to itself/ourself?) or fulfills some other esoteric function by the only means we can relate to - by manifesting events in the relative.

That it's maybe in the end just a manifestation of some of us moving beyond C1 to not just transcend time and the physical and be able to enter other reality tunnels, but also becoming able to create alternative reality tunnels.

If that was the case, then this the UFO phenomenon is just a part of the much broader phenomenon of our perception of non-ordinary realities, and as such just as prone to being misconstrued and misunderstood. Especially when for ego reasons we have an investment in believing certain things.

The bit that throws me is the amount of screwy belief that's probably buried somewhere in the depths of what passes for our personal/local/easily consciously accessible minds, and consequently what has the potential to manifest without our knowing its there. How many of us for example if suddenly snapped into an alternate reality that presented us with this monstrous looking apparent deity would retain enough presence to not instantly snap into the deeply conditioned response of relating to it as a god - of maybe even prostrating ourselves before it?

[quote author=recoverer link=1210264465/0#1 date=1210266722]Werner:

I don't believe that you'll have to reincarnate if you don't want to. The very fact of how you don't seem to want to, shows that you aren't attached to this World. I believe that people over do the attachment to this World business. Consider what near death experience people often say. For individual reasons, they have no interest in returning to the World.  They only do so because they have responsibilities such as families to take care of.

The main things each of us want is happiness, security, peace, knowledge and love.  While in this World we become confused about how to obtain these qualities. If a spirit moved on to the World of spirit and found these qualities, why would it be pulled back into the World? There is no way that this World has things to offer that the spirit World doesn't have to offer. Especially when it comes to love.

Some say that spirits get stuck earthbound for a while because of addictions. This may be so, but before a spirit gets to the point where it can reincarnate it would have to get over its addiction sufficiently enough so it could move on to the light and get the assistance it needs so it could consider another incarnation. Or in otherwords:
1. A person is addicted to something such as sex, drugs or alchohol while alive.
2. This person dies and energetically stays connected to the World because of his or her addiction.
3. This person, I mean spirit, becomes tired of being attached to the World, receives help from a spirit helper, and moves to a place in the spirit World where its addiction based energetics can be cleansed. Along with this cleansing process will be a life review which enables the spirit to understand why it became addicted while incarnated in a human body. Because this spirit is no longer encased within a body, it will be separated from the survival instinct, food drive, sex drive, chemical imbalances, hormonal influences, and the emotion producing chemicals the body includes. It will be free of the mental capacity limitations a nervous system imposes.  It will be free of the energetic limitations a body causes.
4. After a spirit completes the energetic cleansing and life review process, it will move to a higher level of the spirit World where it will be exposed to a level of love, happiness, peace, beauty and knowledge,  where earth based attachments will seem pale in comparison.  Therefore, whether or not a spirit reincarnates will be a matter of choice rather than requirement. Perhaps it will want to learn more lessons, or serve the light in some way.

I restate what I wrote on another thread. While in the spirit World we work with other spirits and share our lessons.  This negates the need for numerous incarnations.


[/quote

I agree, with all of this for sure!!

peace n' love

OK Old Dood, I was harsh. You know, I took the youtube-Ufo-tour. What I found to me seemed to be to a good extent like a cult- and a dark cult, unfortunately.

Let me explain my position:
1. There is doubtlessly evidence of many sightings which can't be explained ("Ufos").
2. There is no hard evidence of aliens. As far as I know, there is not one bit of definitely foreign technology or remains of an alien ever presented to the public, examined by a scientific institute. There is simply a disproportion in the amount of stories vs. the amount of hard facts.

I see myself as open sceptic. I don't like when speculations are sold as hard facts. And I don't like when people got hung up in dark scenarios. There are already enough people who suffer from that alien-hysteria. Therefore my reaction.

Spooky

Guys

I have been lurking in the background soaking up your most provocative and interesting dialogue.

I would like to add: Where do you think mortal humanity, will be in the unimaginable far future say one billion CE.?

Alan

Greetings,

Re: the lizard like features of so many reports--
What if
our OWN subtle bodies have certain characteristics that we'd not like to be conscious of.
So when we're OB or whatever, we see others in their astral or ethereal outfits, and all our conscious mind can accept is
"Lizard People!--but I just caught a glimpse of them !!
I think I'd prefer flowing robes and feathered wings, but maybe that jest ain't so.  :o

Re: 1,000,000 C.E.---
I plan to be within an emerging world, acting as gravity to magnetize
Some bits of dust and vapor from the surrounding skies, and when my God
annoints it all with lightning from above, my outer caseing of my yet unnamed world
shall bring forth life, immersed in Love.

Or maybe I'll just be singing second soprano with the Hasannahs at the foot of God.  [smiley=engel017.gif]

Bets :)

I appreciate that you put your energy here Old Dood. you make perfect sense to me, and especially the part about how easy it is to go through life with our heads in the sand, it seems to be a human wish to be led, not sure, but it really is time not to be sheep anymore.

I'm not with paranoia either. I sense a plan is unfolding and I enjoy being a part of it. thanks for the links, I'm sure somebody here will appreciate the links and perhaps has been looking for them.

I lived in Roswell 4 years and came there, wondering if the stories were true. Living in the town, searching out it's history, meeting the folks there, I came to believe there was a massive coverup of the truth back in 1947; it was enacted by our military with such efficiency that barely a trace remains behind of the truth, and besides the original newspapers displayed where you can read between the lines, nothing remains there for the general public tourists except for a paper float during the annual parades depicting the spaceship crash.
Pretty sure it was several of the gray clones that crashed there, and that there had been some bomb testing in the area which disturbed their instruments, which shows their technology was not perfect either.

then while I'm going along in Roswell, who do I meet but the illegitimate daughter of one of our most respected presidents, who has visited with her spiritually, obe, and informed her of his alien origins, and that he has taken human form for a historic period. she had his dna; she looked just like him.
also I was not desiring to take up alien study..spirit practically dragged me to her in order to provide the funds by purchasing her little hut so she could go off to prove her DNA was her fathers.
this was not to be, but she made an effort in court, her half brother would not comply.

yes, technology is interesting. I was involved with a man who had developed a carbureator which runs on fumes, reducing our dependence on foreign oil. Upon checking the patents, we discovered at least a dozen such carbs had already been invented, and the inventors bought out or threatened that if they didn't accept payment...well...their families might suffer the consequences...

yes, this goes on. but it's changing slowly.  My inventor friend was the stubborn type. Got his toe shot off for not selling his patent. god bless him. I hope he's ok. I figure there are event planners, and when the time is right, the new carbs and alternative fuel will appear, and maybe even quicker than we think!

Have faith..we are rolling ahead into the shift in consciousness..there truly are things in our universe which are quite as strange as any fiction I've read. and I don't even read fiction btw.

love, alysia
ps: Dood, you're right. we should love one another despite the barriars to doing that.

Alysia...you are welcome.
Just to let everyone know that Alysia didn't just 'believe' me when I started sharing some of this stuff.
She looked at it with an open mind and made her own decisions.

I also 'believe' there is some kind of 'mind control' going on too.
As CRAZY as that sounds I have a strong feeling this is true.
We get bombarded with so many things now a days it is not even funny.
TV, Media, Movies, etc all contribute to some form of mind control.
The less you allow yourself you be influenced by these things the more you can 'see' the truth.
(I am sure a lot of you members here do not fall victim to a lot of TV and such.  You here are more 'aware' then the regular people in this world)
I have cut myself off of most television. If I want to see a TV show then I will watch a DVD of it instead.
OR...watch YouTube.
Our last line of 'defense' anymore is the internet and 'they' want to take that away as well.
How? Ever heard of Net Neutrality?
Link: http://www.savetheinternet.com/
This is a good place to start.  IF the governments and corporations have their way we will lose our ability to get reliable information.
The Ministry of Truth will become our only means of any info and that scares me.

This next coming election is very important. It may look like any other election in the past but, I am concerned about the 'outcome'.
Will we have another 'October Surprise'?  Will there be some kind of Emergency at the 11th hour?
One that will allow Bush/Cheney to declare such an 'Emergency' to hold off elections and retain POWER? Mashal Law? I sure hope not.

It is no secret that Bush/Cheney is trying to start a war with Iran. So much so that many ODD things have happened.
Do any of you know that the NIE (National Intellegence Estimate) was LEAKED....on purpose to hopefully stop a war with Iran?
That seemed to hold them off for a while. Right now we have a Carrier Group on it's way to the Persian Gulf.
What is it's real mission? False Flag Operation? I do not know. I do know that 'they' want this war and if they get it then we just might be in for a WWIII.
How many of you remember the Minot Air Base Missing Nuclear Cruise Missiles from last summer?
Have you noticed that 'story' was surpressed?  Very quickly too. No way in hell the US Military makes that kind of 'mistake'....EVER!
Loose Nukes Link: http://www.willthomasonline.net/willthomasonline/Loose_Nukes.html
Project Camelot Link: http://www.projectcamelot.org/jack_carter.html


I have also read that the war in Iraq was more about gaining Ancient Technology then it was about WMDs.
There was some kind of 'device' that was found in the deserts of Iraq that Saddam knew about and was going to use.
I understand this sounds CRAZY as well. Think about it.
What the device was/is I believe is a 'Stargate/wormhole' type device. One that can affect the 'timelines'.
There is already a device in the hands of the US government. It has many names. One is called Looking Glass.
Link: http://www.projectcamelot.net/looking_glass.html

David Wilcock speaks of this as well in his video I have shared here.
Link: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4951448613711060908
What this device can do is 'see' into probable 'futures'.
Where did this Looking Glass come from? The Roswell Crash.
Dr. Dan Burisch is a important resource to this story.
Link: http://www.projectcamelot.org/dan_burisch_summary.html
Link #2 (update): http://www.projectcamelot.org/t1v83.html
Video Link: http://www.projectcamelot.org/dan_burisch.html
Dad Burish is an 'Odd Duck' to say the least but, his story has checked out with other insiders and whistleblowers.
(I would love to have Project Camelot interview Bruce Moen about his travels....)

There is so much information out there that is hard to get a hold of.
There is a lot of DIS-information as well. Our Secret Governments are not stupid. They try to cloud the issues with disinformation.
They have been doing a great job too.

This is why I asked people here to look into this because many of you are very good at spiritual travel and can look into this stuff much more easily then I can.
That was the whole point of the Partnered Exploration of the Moon for example.  So some of you can view what is going on up there.
Not just the Moon but, Mars and Venus. I believe it would be more reliable info if you all did it as a group.  So it 'looks' more clear to all.
We are being lied to about our solar system. For example Mars does not have a Red Tint of an Atmosphere.
It is blue.  NASA 'tints' it red. Why? Good question.
I will not say that everything that I am providing is 100% accurate. BUT, I know I am on the right track.
This is also why I say it is not always about the correct answers but, the correct questions.

I don't think we are able to discuss politics here Dood, we can do that in off topics though. it's because whenever people start talking politics it always turns into an "us versus them." and consequently it's off topic for this room, my opinion.

yet I see where you are trying to lead things. I don't believe for one thing that there is a conspiracy in government, nor is there a conspiracy in our spiritual homes, where we call it nonphysical realms. because there is nothing bad, there is nothing good. all just is. this is a new consciousness which will yield a powerful focus to the human passing here. we will see many great changes, but slowly, more towards 2050 I'm thinking, along with a friend. I won't be here then in this body.

we will have those little flying things! lol. we may have harnessed once again the power of crystal energy as we did in Atlantis once. u will have a map in your little flying thing, u program it, and it drives itself to the destination. how freaky!
humans will be here for awhile, still becoming, still alive, still dealing with Earth changes, but the threat of war greatly if not entirely obliterated, so a higher standard of living for all.
these are my feelings entirely, as I consider a new consciousness to come, stepping into the 5th level pulling everyone with us, all of us, every nation and culture the same, but slowly and in time.

this is more good guys versus bad guys politics when we talk about 3 dimensional thinking. What I think it is not mind control, but ignoring that we effect one another with the slightest thoughts we give to one another. oneness concept is being ignored. like u said once, there is even on Earth, humans who think in possessive terms, then there are humans who are in service to others. you mentioned the aliens are like this also.
the question in terms of a new consciousness on Earth as it is in heaven, is how may I serve life? not how may I serve my singular needs without considering the effect upon another if I do so.

It's really an easy shift to make. I may even live to see it happen, the question is to myself, do I want to?  I might.

If we were talking politics, which I refuse to do because I am only in the healing arts and don't focus on politics anyway, but if I were, I would use the analogy that we often do not vote as we do not see that individually we can make a difference. thats what I might call spiritual ignorance. Once a person sees they have the power to make a difference, there is no conspiracy in the entire world which can stop them from going ahead and making a difference, by voting, or whatever field of interest they are in. Thats why I don't believe in the force of negative powers. It simply is not there. I do not see it, so I don't give it power. If I don't give it power, it does not exist. for me. If we each focus on what is good, what is true, we escape all manner of calamity by aligning with spiritual principle, god, or whatever you wish to call it. call it the force. there's something watching over us. label it what you will, it belongs to us all.

each person can make a difference and so we ignore our personal responsibility simply because we want someone else to do the work perhaps or we give into despair and get into overload drive.
live and learn. at least we are alive in a most amazing historical period! and we wanted to be here.

the original question to this thread is 2012, will we still have an afterlife experience.

to me this question does not make sense, so I don't know how to get on topic as 2012 is just another year to me. u might say to me, 2012 has already arrived and my afterlife expectations are simply a continuation of what I am experiencing in this physical life, so I cannot comment.

the Roswell coverup was partially because of the immaturity of our spiritual stations in this day and age, or back in 47, I surmise the coverup was necessary to waylay the panic, whereby certain factors might have started gathering implements of war, and then business as usual could not have proceeded, I suspect the military leaders ultimately wanted to protect us, however, some of us resent that type of hiding from us the truth as we know we can deal with it just fine. others among us would panic. panic and that effects the entire nation when the survival chakra and that adrenalin kicks in. mobs could have formed, is what I surmise.

We are slowly being conditioned to accept alien life does exist and we will be able to benefit from their technology further..we just have to employ patience and pursue with an open mind the way we are doing now. love to you Dood, I hope u don't get upset about my mentioning politics by itself, is I think listed in the guidelines as something we might not want to do. you know I love you, right?

The U.S. govt. is hiding lots of useful technology from us.. Then you know some of the Reptoids, Greys, have given the govt. technology that is used to brainwash us and then do whatever they please with us..

peace n' love

Alysia, I know what you are saying when you speak of 'politics'.
I am not going there.
If I was going to actually speak about Politics then I would have said Candidate A is Better then Candidate B Or Party A is Worst then Party B and so forth.
I look at it like this: the Letter of the Law and the Spirit of the Law. I was working within the Spirit of the Law.
I understand the 'reason' for no politics but, I wasn't really 'talking politics' as much as speaking about people in power that happen to be in politics.
Same goes for Corporations.  Our country has turned into a Corporate State.  OR..Corporatism (Fascism).
What that means is the government AND corporations working together.  That is what Fascism really is. The term now a days is Corporatism.

Companies/Corporations were NEVER meant to have Rights. As in the Bill of Rights.  Individuals were and the Individual is losing them while Corporations are gaining them.

Also when we speak of our everyday lives that are changing even in this thread it is impossible to separate some form of politics from everyday life.
It INTRUDES into our everyday lives more and more.

When I was speaking about 'Looking Glass' for example that machine has been used to 'see' the future probabilities.
That was what that one video link of David Wilcock explained a little bit. Elections were 'fixed' due to the probabilities of that machine 'looking ahead'.
That machine from what I have read and learned has been dismantled.  Parts were taken out of it so it cannot work.
This thing is REAL. It is not a joke. The problems 'they' faced with this device was when they got closer and closer to 2012 the 'snap shots' of the 'future' became whited out more and more.
So much that they could not 'see' beyond 2012. That is very interesting bit of info. WHY? I do not know myself but, it is ODD just the same.
What is funny is we 'see' little bits and pieces of this hidden tech in movies and TV shows.
The movie Contact shows us a version of that machine.  It is real LARGE in the movie but, the princible is the same.
Dr. Carl Sagan that wrote the book Contact was privy to this information later on. (not at first)

So my intent was not to go political but, to show what is coming down the pike.  Or what MAY come down the pike.
My bringing up this impending war with Iran is important. WHY must we have this war. Why are certain people so dead set on having this war?
My 'guess' is simple. Power & Control. It has nothing to do with Democracy or Security and everything to do with Power & Control.

So my post was meant as a warning.  So people just might look at world events a bit differently and maybe they too will 'see' this happening.

Personally my belief is there is no two party system anymore. Personally I believe they are a distraction so 'We the People' are always at each others throats.

Hi, people,

This is what I saw and concluded about the grays, which are I think some sort of a parasite that cannot continue to exist without humanity. Perhaps the myths about vampires are just another take on explaining how a being can suck life from another

The "Gray’s think are of superior intelligence having two brains. They do not possess sexual organs and have sensory organs that are somewhat atrophied. They can only perpetuate and continue on in life by transferring their conciseness to a cloned replica of themselves or a entity of similar interlect, when damaged.

They are reptilian in nature and have the ability to hypnotize or freeze their victims. They claim to have created humankind and are here to bring us up to the next level of our "evolution". They are seen in a bright sudden and startling appearance from the skies. Their bodies also appear to shine in the dark.

They are not nice and do not have the best intentions for us.

Agree I see what they call evolution as just an experiment by God leading up the present earthly reality as sentient beings. The great lizards abandoned for the better idea of placental mammals and the isolated Australian experiment with marsupial mammals are just examples

Like Justin, I believe God does the same thing with the cosmos and indeed all of existence.
     
These Gray entities are reflected in the Bible I think.

Basic English (Zechariah 5)      

Zec 5:1      Then again lifting up my eyes I saw a roll in flight through the air.(roll is the mother ship)      
     
Zec 5:2      And he said to me, What do you see? And I said, A roll going through the air; it is twenty cubits long and ten cubits wide. (roll is the mother ship)            

Zec 5:3      Then he said to me, This is the curse which goes out over the face of all the land: for long enough has every thief gone without punishment, and long enough has every taker of false oaths gone without punishment.      

     
Zec 5:4      And I will send it out, says the Lord of armies, and it will go into the house of the thief and into the house of him who takes a false oath by my name: and it will be in his house, causing its complete destruction, with its woodwork and its stones.            

Zec 5:5      And the angel who was talking to me went out and said to me, Let your eyes be lifted up now, and see the ephah or” UFO” or” UFO” which is going out.      

     
Zec 5:6      And I said, What is it? And he said, This is an ephah or” UFO” or” UFO” which is going out. And he said further, This is their evil-doing in all the land. (The Grays are Bad news)            
Zec 5:7      And I saw a round cover of lead lifted up; and a woman was seated in the middle of the ephah or” UFO” or” UFO”. (he looked into the open doorway of the UFO)            
Zec 5:8      And he said, This is Sin; and pushing her down into the ephah or” UFO” or” UFO”, he put the weight of lead (metal) on the mouth of it. (doorway)            

Zec 5:9      And lifting up my eyes I saw two women coming out, and the wind was in their wings; and they had wings like the wings of a stork: and they took the ephah or” UFO” or” UFO”, lifting it up between earth and heaven.

I hope this is of some interest      



The mystical beings that appear to us as vertical beams of light are our friends and their task is to help humanity join the universal order.

Most refer to these beings as Angels

Alan

R, you're too onery for a reptilian to approach you. don't worry. :)

Ok, Dood you're cool. I was just not wanting a bunch of politicians waving signs here. somewhere I got the idea all politicians are scoundrals...maybe I need to rethink that one. basically, we are about exploring our own self, here what happens after death..not what is happening in the outside world where it seems these days everyone is getting crazier sometimes..and like R said, we don't know what to believe...got to go inward to hear what the truth is...daily.  it would be easy to get off topic and then Bruce comes in and puts the thing in the off topic category without warning. but conversation can continue as usual over there too. and glad off topic is there. more freedom flow to the thread, can be fun. so if it gets hairy here...dont forget Dood, we want to hear you, and you can always take it to off topics if things get controversial. u have to admit, it's a sticky subject.

Spooky thanks for leavening the group. Spooky has had a lot of great inner explorations he shared here.

ok my two cents...the ufo's can slip into a dimensional slide, it seems as if they speeded up and disappeared. that's because they increased the frequency and slip into this other dimension, out of our space, into their kind of space. the space we can see is produced by an image on the retina of the physical eye...just as there are sounds which a dogs ear can pick up, and similar to Monroe's tones of the hemi sync, the physical eye only sees a limited dimension we call time/space/motion, 3 dimensional here. Just as the I/there exists, so does this other dimension where there is no linear time or clock time.  they have a reason for revealing themselves to the odd human here and there.
It acclimates us to their eventual arrival. We are interesting to them. Some don't have emotional quality, nor do they understand the PUL we can generate here, which causes our evolvement.

See Bruces's books regarding aliens and PUL and how they couldn't measure the stuff yet benefitted from feeling it. it helped them evolve to study and feel it.

Certain humans from before incarnation agreed to be in an experiment with certain aliens, although they didn't necessarily remember the contract agreement. they slowly start to remember when they reach a certain point in their process.
Some are women agreed to participate in dna, mixing human dna with alien dna. the fetus is then taken and grown in their on ship lab, when it is about 6 weeks or so along.

later, the mother is brought back onboard to supply "love." as the half human does not thrive well without this nurturing love. the aliens learn from the Earth mother by the way she holds the child and loves it.

These aliens I've been told would like to share our Earth, and so the dna mix is their plan, in agreement with the persons who agreed to be abducted. the children then later, as adults infiltrate the society and aid in our evolvement having the knowledge given to them by both races. (dna is like information strands of living cellular composition)

this my own supposition. just sharing what I believe.

Here's a rather beautiful song by Alison Krauss and Robert Plant I tripped over on YouTube that for me captures some sense of the wonder and ultimate unknowability of the whole UFO thing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPhQ7F0loKk&feature=related

'Strange things are happening every day,
I hear the music up above my head,
Though the sight of my heart has left me again,
I hear music up above......'

UAP in the UK Air Defence Region: Executive Summary

LINK: http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/FreedomOfInformation/PublicationScheme/SearchPublicationScheme/UapInTheUkAirDefenceRegionExecutiveSummary.htm

This was recently released by the MoD (British Ministry of Defense) about UFOs for the last 30 years.
Basically they are accepting the fact they are real...

EDIT: vajra, yes you can find some really neat little gems on YouTube....

Hi,

when several of these ideas get put together, it's easy to think of the greys as being humans who have evolved under the earth in caverns (sort of like the 'Hollow Earth' concept.) --- Previous human Earthlings who ruined their planet's surface with technologies of ultimate devastation, perhaps as recently as Atlantis?

That would explain the great span of time they've been seen (biblical, 1500's, etc) and could explain their anatomy and the extreme measures they may be taking to insure their survival.

We would be evolved from the same human stock previous to the devastation. When they say they made us or are responsible for us, it's in the sense that they were human too in the earlier evolution.

They and not some 'evil' surface nation, would be the princes of darkness and we are the people of light, I hope, using biblical references again.

This isn't my idea, it is hinted at in a novel called 'The Green Child,' by Herbert Read, an English historian in the early 1900's. In that story, two of them accidentally wandered up to the surface +/or were transported by vibrations from an earth churchbell. People tried to care for them but food etc here was not in tune with their bodies.

Do they have to be from another planet to be important to us?

Bets

 

Betson and others,

One view that comes from the bible is that about the grays is that they are the result of the “children of god”? who took the took the woman of humanity as their mates and this supposedly resulted in a hybrid breed of some sort,

These children of the gods might be beings from other worlds somewhere from out in the universe

Alan

Greetings,

That's still going on, isn't it?--women claiming to have been used for breeding
with these  aliens?

Did the beings get the term 'children of god' because they came frome the skies?

Betson

Update on Timelines and Looking Glass...

Link: http://www.projectcamelot.org/t1v83.html

As to what the ETs are doing in regards to Abductions then this thread is very insightful.
Link: http://lucianarchy.proboards21.com/index.cgi?board=philosophical&action=display&thread=1597&page=77#102105
(I really enjoy ScaRZ's input. I do not always agree with him but, he makes some fantastic points)

More on what are Angels...
Link: http://lucianarchy.proboards21.com/index.cgi?board=philosophical&action=display&thread=1597#41382

This WHOLE thread is very intersting to me anyways.
ScaRZ explains what the Giants of the Old Testament (Nimrod was a giant) also what are, 'sons of god' and the 'daughters of men'.

Fascinating read...however, it is real L O N G! You could spends weeks reading this.

I went over to the link about angels and demons that Dood gave us. Very interesting. They seem to be a group of Christian mystics, using bible language.

in comparison to this board, we have all religions as well those of no faith, just folks, show up here to blend thoughts with.  Certainly many threads of thought there and perspectives and what appears as mystical experiences, which do not show up here, except for Alan could match them I'll bet!

Dood, you would probably like Astral Pulse as well. Robert Bruce is busy as an interplanetary exorcist from what I've viewed. I like him but I like Bruce Moen's books and experiences much better. just a personal preference.

A different group though for sure. I don't have time or I'd probably jump in there. Robert Bruce however takes the zap out of the word demons to call them negs.

which means a negative person. If you come upon grouchy folks, that is a negative person. I usually don't ask them what planet they came from as I might get punched.

When out and about in the astral should you come across a neg, we have here a nifty little reball, a love tap in some cases you can send. In other times "see it not there" works marvelously.
There are spiritual principles to bring light into the body complex. This light works within your astral body configerations as well. When light, which is what you are, as light energy, approaches a neg, which is dark energy, it flees...just as the bible says, and what Monroe has reported to experience, standing before a highly evolved being, the ego, if it holds any dark energy, is blinded by the light, and in order to save itself must flee.

so they are talking about angels over there versus demons. this is very old stuff/thought. a case of duality and 3 dimensional thinking we will be leaving behind shortly, maybe in 50 years? donno, but 4rth and 5th dimensional thinking is a type of no thinking, it is just a beingness.

have to share what I got a slight buzz off once though....I got a message on myspace that Satan had returned home. I assumed this meant that Satan had been loosed upon the Earth, and now he was back home, and so his powers are no more. this of course is traditional Christian thought again, which I don't really need or want. Yet I saw it as a positive comment and that it had some truth in it, that there has arrived upon our planet a speed up of positive energy, which is causing us all to make leaps and bounds towards our respective intentions for being here.

It could not just be me seeing this everywhere.  :o

there is only one place we can go from here on this type of thread, and that is towards our unlimited higher selves. until all thought is necessarily limited thought. Keep love, PUL acts to expand the mind into what is true for all.

a heart path. May the force be with you!  :)

Hi Alysia and all.

Well, like you say we all have a huge diversity of opinions and maybe they are closer than we think.  Perhaps words get in the way.  I am looking forward to going back to speaking telepathically in a more conscious way.  Then we'll know what's really in a person's heart.  Just my thoughts, but I think we are a bunch of lovers here who just get caught up in silly words sometimes.
Dood, you've added a lot of interesting thoughts to the thread.  IMO, we are not so frightened here of differing ideas or we wouldn't be here.
So do we have an afterlife after 2012?  Of course.  In fact, I think that we are as dead now as we'll ever be.  Many mystics call this life we're in now 'death'.

http://www.comicguide.net/images/smilies/snail.gif

"Alysia you said"A different group though for sure. I don't have time or I'd probably jump in there. Robert Bruce however takes the zap out of the word demons to call them negs."

"me"
I like this term for them, maybe you can remember my early days in the forum where I told of an experience with these life sucking negative things, I did not call them demons.

I will do a search and try to repost ths .Is is not long

alan

LaffingRain wrote on Jun 5^th, 2008 at 6:36pm:

I went over to the link about angels and demons that Dood gave us. Very interesting. They seem to be a group of Christian mystics, using bible language. in comparison to this board, we have all religions as well those of no faith, just folks, show up here to blend thoughts with.  Certainly many threads of thought there and perspectives and what appears as mystical experiences, which do not show up here, except for Alan could match them I'll bet! Dood, you would probably like Astral Pulse as well. Robert Bruce is busy as an interplanetary exorcist from what I've viewed. I like him but I like Bruce Moen's books and experiences much better. just a personal preference. A different group though for sure. I don't have time or I'd probably jump in there. Robert Bruce however takes the zap out of the word demons to call them negs. which means a negative person. If you come upon grouchy folks, that is a negative person. I usually don't ask them what planet they came from as I might get punched.

Alysia, when you have time then read some more over there.
I would suggest simply pulling up ScaRZ's name then reading(skimming??) his last 400-500 posts.
(that only goes back to the beginning of the year by the way..hehe)
Not that ScaRZ is the only person to read but you will catch what he is answering to then jump in on that area of that thread.
Like I stated it is a very long thread. I do not 'think' of ScaRZ as 'religious' in the term that is mostly associated with it.
He is just very deeply intersted in pre-flood times. I think of him more like a history teacher.
He brings together not just the Bible but many books that were not allowed in the bible.
It makes for a very interesting way to 'look' at our history.
He is a very loving man and actually tries to 'Walk the Walk' so to speak.
That is more then I can say about most Christians that *I* have ever met.

As for the Astral Pulse. I am registered there.
I have posted quite bit there but, not so much in the last 6 months.
I did buy his main book though and downloaded it. ($27.00 I believe)
What I found out about 'Spiritual forums' is most people that *I* come across seem to only want to hear themselves talk.
They are not there to learn because 'they' believe they have learned it already.
I found this same attutude with the Near-Death Forum too.  In fact I simply STOPPED all posting there.
The Administrator over there was condensending and closed minded.
I do not have the time or the energy to feed these people's EGOS.
I have started some threads on these two forums only to mostly catch flak for it.
In all fairness, I have met a few people there that are what I call 'Gems'.
I let them know I was leaving and where to find me if if they desire too.
However, I did get to meet Ginny and learn about Frank Kebble from the Astral Pulse.
Once I found out that Ginny is over here (once in a blue moon) I got real excited.

I find it very strange that people that are researching Spiritual things and Ufology are not working more in sync with each other.
There is some kind of connection.  That I would bet my life on.
There are answers there if only people would start to merge these two areas of interest togther more.
THAT is why I enjoy the Open Minds forum. It is the closest that I have found that meets this criteria.
Just by looking at the Sub Forum Titles will tell you this.
The Open Minds Forum merges Ufology, Spiritualism, New World Order, Science, and even Religion all under one umbrella.
The Moderation on that Forum is very very FAIR to all.
They will not tolerate any personal attacks on ANYone.
They simply ask that people back up as much as possible their 'evidence'.
Other then that they are a good group of people over there and anyone is welcome.
The Administration over there also understand they have become a bigger target for Dis-information agents and debunkers.
Other words the (secret) government is trying to infiltrate and cause discourse.

I shared here I beleive the thread named: The Disappearace of Steve Fossett.
It is in the sub forum of John Lear.
It is a very intresting thread where this man disappeared while flying his plane.
I mean totally disappeared. no wreckage, no trail, no nothing.
Dimensional Shift? Perhaps...no one 'really knows' at this point.
Then a person came forward and stated he received communication from Steve Fossett by way of a computer.
Text on the screen.
Where 'Steve' was trying to describe where he was at and was having a hard time in doing so. 4th dimension? I do not know...
This brought to mind Bruce's 'device' to reach the afterlife realm.
Worth the read anyways...

I still would like to see Bruce Moen while he is still with us in this 3D realm do an interview with Project Camelot.
THAT would be fantastic....

'What I found out about 'Spiritual forums' is most people that *I* come across seem to only want to hear themselves talk'

This is indeed a fair comment Dood, and we're all to one degree or another guilty of it. I'd say though that much of what seems like disinterest is largely the result of unconscious reactions.

It seems to cut several ways:

1. Yes, some want to use forums as a platform to push their views.
2. Perhaps the more pervasive aspect. When somebody does post something that isn't within our belief system we tend to be slow to engage in discussion - presumably because we're afraid of our beliefs  being challenged.

These are of course classic examples of ego at work - of our inability to rest easily in the face of uncertainty or unknowing. Without the mind frantically rushing in to try rationalise the gap out of existence - to tie up the loose ends, and so restore the primacy of our personal reality tunnel.

There's a third problem too - one that's easily read as one of the above. I've for example no problem with accepting the reality of the UFO experience that's so widely reported. But I struggle to get meaningfully involved in discussion as to what it all might mean - basically because I just haven't done the reading or thinking, or had any of the experience that's necessary to form a view.

My instinct too is that there's a cross over between matters spiritual (as in involving broader realities) and this territory.

So my vote Dood is for you to keep on posting and trying to bring us up to speed in this space - that you persevere, and don't be put off by the above. Thank you for the links which I'm slowly digging into.....

I heard through word of mouth from a friend of mine that a meditation group she occasionally attends has been progressing to retrieval situations, and now she has heard from them that they are in contact with extraterrestrials. From the leaders of the group, she has been told this.

I have met these people. This couple is highly respectable, wealthy, inviting people into their home with nothing but graciousness. In fact, the atmosphere was so "pure" there when I tried out the basic practice they shared when I attended that I didn't return. I didn't feel ready for it at this point. The group was definitely moving energy there, with the different meditators being guided and progressed at different rates.

But, I mention this simply to voice my support for the sharing of any controversial topics here, as we really have no idea of their importance, and how all of these subjects are related. Experiences matter, so any way that we can hear about them, I think it benefits us all.

wrote on Jun 6^th, 2008 at 7:35am:

'What I found out about 'Spiritual forums' is most people that *I* come across seem to only want to hear themselves talk' This is indeed a fair comment Dood, and we're all to one degree or another guilty of it. I'd say though that much of what seems like disinterest is largely the result of unconscious reactions. It seems to cut several ways: 1. Yes, some want to use forums as a platform to push their views. 2. Perhaps the more pervasive aspect. When somebody does post something that isn't within our belief system we tend to be slow to engage in discussion - presumably because we're afraid of our beliefs  being challenged. These are of course classic examples of ego at work - of our inability to rest easily in the face of uncertainty or unknowing. Without the mind frantically rushing in to try rationalise the gap out of existence - to tie up the loose ends, and so restore the primacy of our personal reality tunnel. There's a third problem too - one that's easily read as one of the above. I've for example no problem with accepting the reality of the UFO experience that's so widely reported. But I struggle to get meaningfully involved in discussion as to what it all might mean - basically because I just haven't done the reading or thinking, or had any of the experience that's necessary to form a view. My instinct too is that there's a cross over between matters spiritual (as in involving broader realities) and this territory. So my vote Dood is for you to keep on posting and trying to bring us up to speed in this space - that you persevere, and don't be put off by the above. Thank you for the links which I'm slowly digging into.....

Thank you vajra...
Lets not forget that even *I* have an EGO and it can rear it's ugly head too.
The thing is I 'try' to contain it or at least remind myself to be aware of it.

The links I provide as I will state again  for clarity purposes are not ALL the Answers.
I look at them as The Questions.
Because, if we do not ask the correct questions in the first place then what answers we end up with will probably be false to begin with.
We have had enough false answers to our lives.

Blink brought something up to mind for me anyways...
About people that have 'met' with ETs.
There is a whole website dedicated to this subject plus more.
It is done in a very scientific & spiritual way.

It is from a website named: Exopolitics. Another site that asks the correct questions.
The Return of the "Sky People", Secret Military Agreements & Using Positive Intention for Extraterrestrial Contact
LINK: http://www.exopolitics.org/Exo-Comment-71.htm

This is just one of many such writtings from this man named Dr. Michael Salla.

Well, I'll be so bold as to say that I have seen aliens in meditation and communicated with them.  We have seen them in the night sky.  Stars do not usually make ninety degree angles and then take off at record speeds.  Then there are beings that pop into our dimension, (call it what you will) but beings that look like space ships will pop in for a second and then pop out.
This is what got me interested in aliens in the first place.
I have found that it works like this:  If you are someone who truly wants to see them and are not going to get your mind blown by it, then they will appear to you if you ask.  It is simpler than you think.  And so, like dood, I have studied this thing for many years.
I know that many people get paranoid over this and will not accept it yet and so they will probably not get approached by them because humans imaginations get carried away and they can imagine very scary things.  There may be very scary things too, but I have not found it this way, at least yet.

I will also add that many of us are aliens in another body right at this moment and have been aliens and when you see them, you can remember.

This is something that I have usually learned to keep my mouth shut about as much as possible because it is very hurtful to know something and have someone give you that odd look or say something hurtful on a forum.  I have seen many other worlds and some that do not even resemble this one so aliens are not a question for me; they are a fact.

Even Bruce Moen talks about them in his books.  And so I will admit that some are very controlling and do things that I will not mention for the sake of people who are still very touchy on this subject.

But the main point that I am trying to make is that it can be very lonely and hurtful to the people who do know of them to be treated like they are crazy and be laughed at.

Quote:

But the main point that I am trying to make is that it can be very lonely and hurtful to the people who do know of them to be treated like they are crazy and be laughed at

I agree. I even look at people on 'Skid Row' or 'Shopping Cart People' that seem to be talking to themselves....Are they really?
OR, have they had encounters in their lives that are just 'To Crazy' for the main stream to accept?

What a marvelous thread. need to take a consensus gathering.  :)  Dood and all, I think what makes a forum actually work is the open minded aspect, live and let live idea and with a genuine "I want to share this" concept.
We've all learned that condescending can come across well in a post, which is ego, or folks just wanting to hear themselves talk without bothering to really read what other's have written.

this internet thing is still feeling new to me, as a way of communicating even though I've been at it since about 1999, I guess thats not a long time. What I've discovered personally in my time here is a lack of empathy from time to time, where an opposite viewpoint appears to be an attack on another and uncalled for, then it escalates. The problem is being entrenched within one's belief system and a certain egotistical righteous posturing occurs, which is how I see what Dood calls military control.

certain factors were born to be police men and women. They will put a banner up and say support your police society, we are here to protect you. We are still in a society which does in actuality need to call 911 from time to time and so you have your cops who maintain the peace, then you have the occassional bad egg cop who pulls over a woman (this true story) under the pretense to give a ticket, and rapes her. the last one he did this to, things got out of control as she fought back so he did her in and got caught eventually. but we still need overall, in the world, police people and we aren't going to judge the whole lot of these type of souls (ministers of hell fire and damnation are included) just because of a few bad eggs who misused their authority.
In the same way, I'm not going to judge Dood's forum Open Minds just from one thread read.
However, I still don't have time to read 400 posts from your favorite poster Dude! lol! I wish truly I did have time. tell u what, I'll compromise. I'll bookmark it!  :)

anyhoo, I'm interested in what makes a forum stay alive because I've seen some do belly flops and I think what makes them fizzle is an unwillingness to take a risk and speak your mind about beliefs, however, at the same time practicing being respectful of the opposite viewpoint, and expressing this basic respect right up front.
many don't give thanks that we are even responded to. I've seen many posts go unresponded to or pounced upon without consideration that it sounds condescending.

In truth, we are all equal. Like SSHS just said to me, the words do get in the way!
u guys got me going, so I need to post some more, regarding that Dood was supposed to be here now and it's been in the works for awhile.

love, alysia

Some of you might be interested in the thread I started in the Off Topic forum.

It is a video named.... Futuretalk: a Conversation with Michael St.Clair

It is in two parts.  First part is about 53 minutes long and the second part is about 43 minutes long.

Here is the Project Camelot Link: http://www.projectcamelot.org/michael_st_clair.html