If we increase how much we live according to love, we increase our vibrational rate. As a result, I figure we can increase our ability to go out of body.

This happened the other night. Before going to sleep I saw more completely through the acceptance rejection thing than I had previously done so. I could feel and hear energy release from my heart chakra. I meditated for a short bit and tuned into love more than I usually do. It felt like something loosened up for me.

During the night while laying in bed awake and while in touch with spirit guidance, I tried to open up to love some more. I did so while feeling really drowsey. In the past my guidance has tried to let me know that if I open up to love, I'll overcome my drowsiness.  I opened up to love a bit, this caused me to overcome my drowsiness, but I opened up to love to a limited extent.  Spirit guidance placed me in a waking dream where I was was walking through a mall (a symbol for the ways of this World).  At this point I wasn't conscious of the fact that I was dreaming.  I saw a lady I used to know and had feelings for. I walked up to her and tried to kiss her on her left cheak. She pulled away from me. I got the feeling that this isn't the way to obtain love. So I tried open up to love spiritually.

As I did so I became aware of how I was involved with a dream. I became aware of how my spirit guidance created this scene in order to make a point. I opened up to love significantly more than I had before this short dream.  This increase caused my vibrational rate to increase and I automatically started flying through non physical space.  I flew through what felt like a vibrant energy field of love and joy.  There was also the usual feeling of OBE excitement, because I was curious to see where my journey would take me. I ended up just flying through a space that had these different color patterns. The point of the experience was to see how spiritual love is more complete and exciting than romantic love.

After the experience was over I was still in touch with a nice feeling of peace and ease of being. I could also feel love. The next night I meditated and found that I could immediately tune into love to an extent that was deeper than the extent I could tune into before.

The moral of the story is that if you want to really fly, then fly through love. :)

Recoverer,

Nice experience, come fly with me and I will take you on a tour of our unimaginably vast and beautiful universe and even beyond at near infinite speed,

alan

Hi recoverer I think it's great this experience you had and so much love,i hope that i can have an experience like it to,all that you write on here ,i can feel the love radiating from you,your soul is so loving.

Love and God bless    love juditha

Gosh, I don't know about this lady, Recoverer.

If a man walks up to you and wants to kiss you on one cheek, I say, let him kiss the other cheek as well.

Then walk a mile in his shoes, or maybe two, before you're done....

Seriously, nice post.

b

Recoverer,

The beauty of the soul is perfect love

alan

Thank you Juditha.

I believe you are a loving person too. :)


wrote on Apr 9^th, 2008 at 5:06pm:

Hi recoverer I think it's great this experience you had and so much love,i hope that i can have an experience like it to,all that you write on here ,i can feel the love radiating from you,your soul is so loving. Love and God bless    love juditha

;D ;D ;D

Thank you Blink.



wrote on Apr 9^th, 2008 at 6:54pm:

Gosh, I don't know about this lady, Recoverer. If a man walks up to you and wants to kiss you on one cheek, I say, let him kiss the other cheek as well. Then walk a mile in his shoes, or maybe two, before you're done.... Seriously, nice post. b

I agree Alan.  I wrote that I was flying around in love and joy, but it felt like I was a part of that love and joy.  

Here is an interesting point. I've had meditations where I experienced bliss, and it was hard to think of anything else during such a period.  My spirit guidance has sent me messages stating that love rather than bliss is the goal. I agree. The love and joy I experienced during the above experience and other times feels better than bliss. Not only that, the love and joy doesn't get in the way of using one's mental capacity.  Bliss might be more of a kundalini thing, while love is something else.



Alan McDougall wrote on Apr 9^th, 2008 at 6:58pm:

Recoverer, The beauty of the soul is perfect love alan

Recoverer said:  :)If we increase how much we live according to love, we increase our vibrational rate. As a result, I figure we can increase our ability to go out of body.
____

right on. I've noticed that whether there/here the Pul factor increases the perceptions we can get and makes lucidity out there a given. this is what a vibrational increase means to me. although just being able to perceive more is not the same as knowledge, it's one of the techniques we can practice, thinking of something or a situation where love was felt. then the exploration gets off on the right foot. This is something I read in Bruce's books, but I had also discovered it in my own life. I bring up book knowledge because, books are people to me. people teach me little things to try.

why didn't u kiss that lady on the right cheek instead R?  :D just kidding.

also in some Obes, I cannot seem to get there unless I have a strong feeling of love for that person whom I want to see. It's like the universe has a secret key. you can't get in without Love.

my studies indicate that as newborns and even before this, our essence is love, and that as we learn to accept this is what we are, we emit more light and gain more presence. bliss is blinding, but love is a very calm ride on a sailboat and no choppy waters to worry about.
but what love really is, is a miracle if you find it inside of you or in another. graditude for others expressing love is becoming the norm.
I think we are all receiving some help these days.
thanks for your post.

I dig what you're saying Alysia. You continue to make me laugh with your poetic way of saying things such as "books are people."  ;D

Recoverer, love is indeed the way forward here on this planet, its our salvation. For we are to find it even when encased held within darkness, this is the test of the physical, so it would seem you are well on your way. But Bliss is not just love it is the most pure form of love you can achieve, its not possible to experience such energy here, as we are held here for the means of testing.

But I can assure you that the love you have experienced here on this plane is nothing in comparison to that of Bliss.

I have been privileged in that I have experienced Bliss through my astral travels there are no words to describe that level of energy except to say that I through this incarnation had opened myself, opened my heart to another through a very challenging time of testing and  I thought through that experience, I had indeed felt a high level of love here. But as this is a testing world by design and we are here with free will things didn't turn out as I had planned or hoped. I was at that time of my discovery fraught with pain and despair and so it was during this time of deep pain, I was shown how much more there really is.

I experienced a merging within the astral this merging took place with someone I know here in the physical a being that is of high spiritual order, and when we merged as our energy's intertwined the first thing I thought was this energy is because we are two pure souls, but then my over soul tells me NO, this is the energy of bliss.

Now you must remember that I had thought I'd experienced something here, that the love I had was everything, I had for it sacrifice everything I held dear so you can see I wasn't playing around. So it would seem to me that my guidance allowed me to experience something so much more, so I could see what waits for me.

We need to through all our pain through all the testing hold on to the fact that there is so much more waiting and that the struggle is indeed worth it.

Love to you

Hi balance and thank you for all your posts. I read them all and they are all truthful if I may say so.
while I read your post here I heard spirit say you and Recoverer are very close in vibration, so that you may have met in the astral levels at night, or you've been brothers, or something similar to this.

very interesting these type of merges, I agree. I've noticed when they happen it seems to set up a synchronicity of exchange signals between two people, if they both are physical. sometimes even telepathy. have you had this occur?

I have noted not all such "joinings" are the same type. Some are merely two spirits and boost is given, a happy greeting, is this thing TMI calls boost. but is not the same as some other types of merges which suggests a deeper measure of exchange between two.

thanks again for talking about a difficult subject. love, alysia

Greetings,

This is a most helpful and lovely thread. Thank you everyone, and
to Recoverer for starting it.

Balance, your words are especially moving.


Betson

Hello Balance:

Thank you for the input.  I've experienced love in ways that go beyond what people usually experience in this World, yet I don't believe that I've experienced it completely to the degree it can be experienced.  Nice to know that there is more to come. :)

Regarding bliss, words don't always clearly represent what we mean.  I've experienced it in ways where time didn't seem to matter and I didn't need anything else, yet love seems sweeter. Such an experience of bliss was expansive, yet there didn't seem to be any room for experiencing knowledge (in a divine sense) at the same time. It seems to me that love allows the space for divine knowledge to exist at the same time. This knowledge will exist in an effortless way that doesn't require thought. What kind of knowledge am I talking about? Well, for example, everything works out wonderfully in the end and all souls abide in a state of perfection. What we experience in this World is just a short lived temporary process.

Once again, thank you for sharing your experience of love, such experiences inspire me to let go of my limitations. :)

You're welcome Bets.

balance wrote on Apr 13^th, 2008 at 7:42pm:

Recoverer, love is indeed the way forward here on this planet, its our salvation. For we are to find it even when encased held within darkness, this is the test of the physical, so it would seem you are well on your way. But Bliss is not just love it is the most pure form of love you can achieve, its not possible to experience such energy here, as we are held here for the means of testing. Some say life is an experiment. whether its an experiment, like a proving ground of the soul, or a test, I tell a joke to relieve the tension of it all..I would say look at your TV set and it sounds out a warning. this is humans doing this. then it says at the bottom of the screen "this is only a test. In a real emergency, you will be instructed where to go." To me, this is a real comfort, not a joke. This is what God says to me. "In a real emergency, you will told where to go." I hear this all the time and I know it's true. But I can assure you that the love you have experienced here on this plane is nothing in comparison to that of Bliss. I get an uneasy feeling that folks would be lusting after bliss with from such a comment when if life is to be experienced what is happening here and now, there is a compensation in the now moment which striving after what is conjectured as "in the future" sets up a block in the mind and a thought of less and more measurement. I ask you seriously, can anyone here say that PUL, or bliss that they themselves have experienced is greater than another's measure of that experience? thats just the point. Bliss is like a miracle. In the future it becomes commonplace as a state of mind. but it can only become commonly accepted when we all extend ourselves what that state of bliss is, and how it can be allowed by one and all, without limiting the attainment of it to another dimension, such as out of body, although for sure we are in the beginning stages of understanding OBE as a whole. _____ I have been privileged in that I have experienced Bliss through my astral travels there are no words to describe that level of energy ___ no words but still we do this. with the words. why? because we are here now and together. I often think of what a great board this is, a place where I can bounce off others thoughts, so similar to my own. I truly don't know where else I could do this. to me it is like bliss to be right here talking to you, to all of you who read this, I would only say each of us is privileged through unmerited grace arriving. except to say that I through this incarnation had opened myself, opened my heart to another through a very challenging time of testing and  I thought through that experience, I had indeed felt a high level of love here. But as this is a testing world by design and we are here with free will things didn't turn out as I had planned or hoped. ____ there is a saying "the best laid plans of man and beast are made to go astray" this relates to the testing or proving grounds we mentioned above. we are still finding out who and what we are. no wonder no one can agree. yet each viewing point is just that. a viewing point, no less invalid than the other's viewing point, or focus of attention. PUL draws all to a common viewpoint. when I looked back on a life fraught with plans going astray, the factor that was brought to my consideration was the end result. the reward was that my plans going astray had purpose, to produce who I am now, in the knowing that I cannot make plans at all without God or what I call spirit's participation. We would be wanting only the highest good to occur for all. We can't do it alone. I was at that time of my discovery fraught with pain and despair and so it was during this time of deep pain, I was shown how much more there really is. _____ I see that image in my mind, what u just described. I saw a face with a frown on it. a frown that's not there anymore because of all your travels. yes, you have been privileged then and I'd say you are in extension mode and PUL pushes you out now. the interesting and excitable thing about what is happening to you that I can only say that you act to increase this PUL by sharing it. the only way we can keep something is by giving it away. but that acts to increase those experiences of PUL as well around the sharing. ______ I experienced a merging within the astral this merging took place with someone I know here in the physical a being that is of high spiritual order, and when we merged as our energy's intertwined the first thing I thought was this energy is because we are two pure souls, but then my over soul tells me NO, this is the energy of bliss. _____ I was thinking yesterday I wanted to do a poll on how many have experienced a merging with another being, physical or not, here on the forum. Instead I'm doing this post as I feel there are not enough lucid dreamers yet, nor obers, nor phasers who would participate in the poll. I think we all go out of body at night, however we don't remember it, we don't recognize the import of our dreams even. but the time is coming, we will all stand in the same place to recognize who and what we are, and that these dimensions of being, of life, are very much a part of our Earthly, physical lives. briefly, I remember a merging long ago and a few more recent, with the same being who is also, like yours, physical now. I do agree the other dimension has a pure quality, meaning undistorted from belief systems or expectations, because love is the basis of our spirit essence, while Earth is the sifting through belief systems for the truth of who and what we are. as well I recall meeting my higher self, who was free from distortions, living in a place where there were no problems to figure out, while I, in C1 certainly had all my plans going astray. Higher Self told me to open my heart. there was nothing to fear in reality. my mergings were not what I would describe as bliss. I would describe them as unconditional love. Unconditional love is like having that best friend in school. with this one friend you share every tiny secret knowing they accept you just as you are, and this is the way God loves us; just as we are. I'd call it pure joy, but bliss, I don't know, that seems too much baggage around that word. I think freedom of self expression within PUL, is what we all want, as it would be a nonjudgmental type of consciousness. ______ Now you must remember that I had thought I'd experienced something here, that the love I had was everything, I had for it sacrifice everything I held dear so you can see I wasn't playing around. So it would seem to me that my guidance allowed me to experience something so much more, so I could see what waits for me. _____ what u say is illustrative of humanity evolving towards Love and harmony. I always say when we graduate here we will take the love in our souls with us..but now our fortunes, nor our degrees of learning can say who we are, but what service we performed for another to benefit, I think that is what it means when we say we go to our reward in heaven. to illustrate further, look at our music world here; is there a tune out there that is not either expressing love, or expressing the desire for love, or expressing some failed adventure in love? all you need is love, sings the Beatles. da da da da daa.. ___ We need to through all our pain through all the testing hold on to the fact that there is so much more waiting and that the struggle is indeed worth it. _____ I might mention pain becomes less and less until there is no more pain. when someone asks me would u do it all again? in the sense that the struggle is worth the end result, yea, but there's another result beyond the worthiness reflection of the journey..it sort of looks like the eye of the storm. the observer part of the mind, which is connected with our god self becomes the eye of the storm and can see in every direction at once without the least confusion. This is the I AM.  Here is where the new beginnings are created. Here is where spirit speaks quietly, I need you to go down to the market place; there is a person who needs something you have. and for some reason you go down there and some interaction takes place and then you know why you went there. then you know there is nothing going on here which cannot be fixed..all in time. love, alysia Love to you

Greetings,

(This topic seems to have done a full twist since a couple of years ago when it was on the boards. People involved then have taken completely different views now.  :)  Guess we're on a Mobius strip, the twisted path of our eternal, never-ending quest. )

Alysia, You say: 'I get an uneasy feeling that folks would be lusting after bliss..."

I'm thinking one cannot go out hunting for bliss with any success. Lusting seems like it would be illustrated by a caveman cartoon, where the caveman's partner is first bonked on the head with a club and then dragged off into a cave for Lusting, pt 2.
Balance said his bliss has come as part of his soul's training, a stage that needs the wisdom of an Oversoul to determine. That was one of the things that impressed me about Balance's post -- his acknowledgement of the role that his Oversoul played in setting up Balance's experiences. Bliss was a gift provided him by his OS, not as a personal conquest. Lusting comes from personal ego that thinks only of bringing it on immediately or sooner. Lusting for bliss just seems impossible.

Alysia, you've previously told me that when we set our intent for some outcome, all we do is acknowledge to our self and our Spiritual Guidance/ OS that we feel consciously ready to experience that outcome. If we crave that outcome, we'll get some other lessons instead. So if anyone is thinking about lusting after bliss, they better be prepared for some surprises instead !

Love, Bets
 

Betson and others:

I don't believe that Alysia meant lust in the way Bets depicted lust.  Alysia's simply saying that we're in this World for a purpose,  so it is better we pay attention to that purpose rather than going into a reclusive bliss state all of the time.

I pretty much agree. I have a "however" that relates to how I meditated last night.  I was trying to see how it doesn't matter what people think of our body based personas. When it comes to the light beings we truly are, they couldn't possibly reject us. I experienced a strong feeling of expansive love. I also felt bliss.  The bliss Balance was speaking of.  I expanded to a certain extent, and then I was shown imagery that related to the concepts that were preventing me from expanding further.  At this point the love factor diminished, but I continued to experience bliss. A bliss where I felt I didn't need anything. Yet, once again, bliss and love together are sweeter. And once again I found that my ability to think about things became limited when I experienced bliss.  I figure the goal is to reach a point where we can experience lots of love, bliss, peace and joy, without loosing our ability to understand. In fact, I've found that the more I tune into love, the more I understand.

Back to the "however" above.  Going by the direction I'm progressing towards and going by the messages my spirit guidance has sent me, we can get to the point where we can live completely according to love while still inhabiting a body. Doing so will enable us to experience bliss in a manner that is different than the bliss one feels when one separates one's self from the World. Ironically, the bliss I'll experience at times that doesn't have a strong love factor, does seem to have a connection to the feeling of oneness. I'm still trying to figure it out and therefore I don't have a definite conclusion.

you're right Bets, lust and bliss in no way go together logically. I know it was a sublime experience for Balance and he worded it perfectly. I hope he doesn't take it wrong.

I was thinking along the lines that R mentioned, as  concerning a type of escapism that was not what Balance was talking about.
I don't think it is realistic to pursue bliss state 24/7. Peace of mind I can relate to. unconditional love is sufficient to be happy all the time.
I know there are transcendent states of mind we achieve where bliss is part of that. I think those are divinely inspired perhaps.

I'm satisfied with a constant state of peace personally. It is work though. but it gets smoother. I like the mental planes best..it provides a different kind of bliss but just as good, just as satisfying.

I wish Balance all the best of both blissful worlds.

 Hi Albert et al,

I don't know a whole lot about the differences between bliss or PUL, but these are some impressions i got the other day while briefly trying to feel it out.  

 Bliss seems like almost a purely receptive state and where you strongly merge with Oneness and so much so that briefly you lose a sense of individual self, hence of course its hard to think, act, etc. from this space.  

 It's almost like pure right brainness.  Did anyone watch that video that Alysia shared a little while ago, about the brain scientist who experiences the shutting down of her left brain hemi-sphere, due to some spontaneous medical issues, for awhile?    

 She called it "Nirvana" the feelings that arose, and while i don't think her left brain completely became inactive, the balance was certainly shifted strongly and in a polarized way to the Right brain.   But, bliss might have been another word to use besides nirvana.  

 PUL is also a merging, but in a more balanced way and where the seeming opposites reconcile and become one.   With PUL you can experience the joy, the moving, very feel good and positive feelings of Oneness, but you still retain enough sense of self to think, act, create, and still be an individual self.   It's not quite as all consuming as bliss, and yet also more powerful in a way.  
 
In order to fully experience PUL and become both a complete and pure resonator with and out putter of same (especially in a consistent sense) your own inner polarities must be merged, the Feminine and the Masculine.   This can happen temporarily at times with different folks, but for it to be completely merged in a perfectly balanced way is kind of rare yet when talking about in human consciousnesses.  

 That applies to the "He/She" types who are still involved with this world.  This cannot happen through extreme body imbalance like that brain scientist experienced.  

We all knew bliss in the beginning, but we've come to develop and know PUL.  PUL is more of a consciously, intentionally sharing type experience and the good feelings from same arise from that.  Bliss is already there, and can temporarily be tapped into without the condition or cause and effect of being purely loving and having a giving or sharing experience.  

Or, i just may be talking out of my arse.  

Greetings,

Yep, Recoverer, I did misunderstand Laughing Rain.
Laughing Rain, sorry. I get behind reading these and
then try to catch up too fast. But if I wait to fully
understand, I'll never get to post anymore-- So much
is going on here!

Love, Bets

Albert and all,

Joy/bliss (without “love”) is the experience of God/Self realization or being completely immersed in luminous white/golden light where there is only an incredible silence. You are totally alone. There is no other. You are the light and no other. The experience of what I can only label as the merging with the light of God where there is the loss of ego identity with all else that exists. Certainly gives new meaning to “Be still and know that I am God.”

This experience feels incredibly wonderful, but there is no wife/husband/significant other, no child/children, no friends, no thought, no memory, no individual identity, no time, no space, no anything. It is absolute oneness.

How many of us truly desire absolute oneness? How many of us are willing to give up all of our relationships? Perhaps this is why love and joy/bliss together is preferable as you mention Albert. Interesting that while we strive for oneness/unity, complete oneness/unity is also complete aloneness unless we are to somehow retain our individual awareness, which seems to require duality.

Love, Kathy

Regarding the below, I figure that God started out as one, and then intentionally became many. Now instead of there being just God all alone, there are many beings who are parts of God. I've had it shown to me a number of times and in different ways that in the end many beings abide as one, with God.

Our existence as souls partly became a reality, when each of us was given the opportunity to determine our own fate. Just as a loving parent wouldn't set a child free to find its own ways only to have this child's life extinquished, things aren't set up so that each of our souls needs to be extinquished at some point.  

We can experience reality in different ways. I believe the oneness Kathy writes about below is one way to experience it. I don't believe that in the end all but one of us needs to say bye bye to our existence so that only God exists. It is interesting that numerous people have had an experience similar to the experience Kathy wrote about.  The fact of how different people can have such an experience without other people having it, shows that our individuality does in fact exist, even when we experience superconsciouness.

I refer back to an experience I've shared before. I was laying in bed wondering about oneness one night.  Suddenly I found myself walking down a city street (not physically). I was very happy and excited because I realized that there is only one self. I walked up to strangers and hugged them and they hugged me back, because they too understood that everything is one self.  Then I hugged my mom and the oneness wasn't there, because I had limiting concepts as to how to love my mom. Next I hugged a woman I was physically attracted to and she was also attracted to me, and we couldn't experience oneness because of our limited ideas of how to love each other.

Therefore, creation isn't just one big mistake that needs to be extinquished. Once we learn to love each other completely we can be one and many at the same time. Why have just one being who is all alone, when we can have many beings who share the same divine perfection?

It could be considered dualistic to suggest that everything needs to revert back to stillness in order for oneness to be, because this suggests that when manifestation exists something other than God exists.

If there is no such thing as time and only an eternal now, then even what has manifested is a part of this internal now. Otherwise, you'd have a period of time where manifestation exists, and a period of time where manifestation doesn't exist.  Can things actually be divided up in such a way?

Whatever the case, if there is only one self in the end, I claim dibbs. Unless some alien being who existed long before me raised its hand or whatever kind of limb it has first, and claimed dibbs before me. ;) I doubt this has taken place, because what would be the point of allowing me or anybody else to come into existence, if a being from a long time ago already claimed dibbs? :(



Lights of Love wrote on Apr 18^th, 2008 at 1:54pm:

Albert and all, Joy/bliss (without “love”) is the experience of God/Self realization or being completely immersed in luminous white/golden light where there is only an incredible silence. You are totally alone. There is no other. You are the light and no other. The experience of what I can only label as the merging with the light of God where there is the loss of ego identity with all else that exists. Certainly gives new meaning to “Be still and know that I am God.” This experience feels incredibly wonderful, but there is no wife/husband/significant other, no child/children, no friends, no thought, no memory, no individual identity, no time, no space, no anything. It is absolute oneness. How many of us truly desire absolute oneness? How many of us are willing to give up all of our relationships? Perhaps this is why love and joy/bliss together is preferable as you mention Albert. Interesting that while we strive for oneness/unity, complete oneness/unity is also complete aloneness unless we are to somehow retain our individual awareness, which seems to require duality. Love, Kathy

great thread, you're right Bets, lots is going on here. hold onto your hats!  Kathy said "Oneness seems to need duality."

what is it like to experience a nonduality type of consciousness? this would imply integration of polarity concepts. I believe we are stepping into a new Earth where we will see some marvelous things unfold. From a 3 dimensional world, we are stepping into a fourth dimensional process. the fun part of it is being able to do it together.

love, alysia

Alysia:

I agree that the fun part is being able to do it together, even when we disagree now and then. :)  I received a message for you. I believe it's about cutting. :-?  I think you either need to mow your lawn or trim your hedges.  


LaffingRain wrote on Apr 18^th, 2008 at 3:51pm:

great thread, you're right Bets, lots is going on here. hold onto your hats!  Kathy said "Oneness seems to need duality." what is it like to experience a nonduality type of consciousness? this would imply integration of polarity concepts. I believe we are stepping into a new Earth where we will see some marvelous things unfold. From a 3 dimensional world, we are stepping into a fourth dimensional process. the fun part of it is being able to do it together. love, alysia

sorry R, I have no idea what your message means.

The message I wrote is a joke. However, I agree with the do it together part.



LaffingRain wrote on Apr 18^th, 2008 at 4:07pm:

sorry R, I have no idea what your message means.

Quote:

Quote Albert: Going by the direction I'm progressing towards and going by the messages my spirit guidance has sent me, we can get to the point where we can live completely according to love while still inhabiting a body. Doing so will enable us to experience bliss in a manner that is different than the bliss one feels when one separates one's self from the World. Ironically, the bliss I'll experience at times that doesn't have a strong love factor, does seem to have a connection to the feeling of oneness. I'm still trying to figure it out and therefore I don't have a definite conclusion.

Hi Albert and all,

I was responding to the above part of your earlier post. I apologize for not being more clear about that and hope I wasn’t being too confusing in what I said. I agree that we can get to a point where we can live completely according to love while still in a body and yes the joy/bliss we feel is different than the joy/bliss we feel when we merge with the light of God, which is our inner essence. The only thing that seems to separate us from God… from experiencing what I described as absolute oneness is belief in separation. Once we recognize that we are not any type of form whatsoever merging with the formless light of God happens automatically.

When eastern philosophies speak of illusion I believe this is what they are saying or basically that even though we find our identity in form, our true nature is that which is formless. The ultimate formless (God) is our true, unadulterated nature. The experience of this while in the physical is the merging with the divine essence within and in doing so we lose all of our identity with form and we know beyond a shadow of a doubt that we are one with this essence.  And this is where love comes into the picture. When we know our true essence is the light of God, we are able to recognize this same essence within all others and we are able to truly love the other because it is the essence within them or God that we love.

“Love God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength. And love all others as you love yourself.”  

You are the absolute light of God, so loving yourself (the essence that your are) is loving God the same as loving others (the same essence that is within them) is also loving God.

Love, Kathy

recoverer wrote on Apr 18^th, 2008 at 4:12pm:

The message I wrote is a joke. However, I agree with the do it together part. LaffingRain wrote on Apr 18th, 2008 at 4:07pm: sorry R, I have no idea what your message means.

trying to express humor here is hard R, I often get folks asking me to explain myself; I think it's because we cannot see each other's facial expressions, tone of voice..etc.

but been thinking about your message. I trimmed my hair yesterday. lol.

Kathy, excellent post!

Thank you Alysia.  :)

Just realized I forgot part of the above quote:

“Love God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength. And love all others as you love yourself.”  

true, we could use that reminder often Kathy. Mind and heart should be united in purpose.
:)

That sounds like something neat to experience - both love and OOBE... lucky you! Got to teach me one of these days, Bets!

Kathy wrote:

"When eastern philosophies speak of illusion I believe this is what they are saying or basically that even though we find our identity in form, our true nature is that which is formless. The ultimate formless (God) is our true, unadulterated nature. The experience of this while in the physical is the merging with the divine essence within and in doing so we lose all of our identity with form and [we] know beyond a shadow of a doubt that [we] are one with this essence.  And this is where love comes into the picture. When [we] know[our] true essence is the light of God, [we] are able to recognize this same essence within all [others] and [we] are able to truly love the [other] because it is the essence within them or God that [we] love.

“Love God with all [your] heart, and with all [your] soul, and with all [your] strength. And love all [others] as [you] love [yourself.” ] 

[You] are the absolute light of God, so loving [yourself] (the essence that [you]r are) is loving God the same as loving [others] (the same essence that is within them) is also loving God."

My Response: I read this the other day and wasn't thinking of responding, but then I had a dream that suggested I should.  I enclosed certain words within double brackets above, because they all alude to the fact of a "somebody" who has a realization of the oneness Kathy speaks about.  When such a person has such a realization only that person has such a realization.  Eastern gurus sometimes represent themselves as if they are beyond God, because they claim that they've realized that they are the one self which existed before God came to be. It seems to me that the point they miss when they make such a statement, is that if it wasn't for the fact that the creative aspect of God caused the processes of creation to come to the point where eventually the person of a guru who makes such a statement comes to be, the guru wouldn't be able to make the claim he or she makes. Therefore, I believe that gurus should give a little more credit to the God that enables everything to be.

The other night I reached another level in my meditation. As I layed in bed spirit energy tried to push itself past blocks in both my crown and heart chakras with a lot of force.  I was shown an image which included an area that had the color violet.  My spirit guidance asked me: "What does that color represent?"  I looked at the violet section, realized that the color was violet, and that the color represents the crown chakra. This was a cue to allow a part of my energy to reach a part of my crown chakra I haven't allowed it to reach before.  I tried to get my energy to reach this area by trying to see my way around the thought patterns that caused the block to this area and the block within my heart chakra. I heard my spirit guidance say: "You're thinking too much."  Since I realized that divine guidance was trying to get my energy to move past my blocks, I decided to stop thinking and just surrender to what guidance was trying to do.

Shortly afterwards, my energy made it to the part of my crown chakra that was blocked. I experienced a really nice feeling of peace, well being, stillness and natural fullness.  I also felt love because I noticed that I was connecting with my spirit guidance at a mind to mind level more than I had done before. It was as if we were a part of the same mind.

I became excited because I figured I could communicate with guidance more completely than I had before.  Problem is, I couldn't think of any questions to ask. For a little while I considered how unimportant some of my attachments are when compared to the state of being I was experiencing. Then I left it up to my guidance to show me whatever it wanted to show me.

It started showing me some really hostile and creepy imagery. This didn't matter, because from the state of being I was coming from, this imagery seemed empty and meaningless, and I knew that the kind of beings the imagery represented couldn't do anything to harm the spirit being I truly am. Next my guidance showed me some creepy imagery that was comical in nature, so it would become clear that they were helping me understand that I don't need to be afraid of evil spirits. One of these images was a hostile Caspar like spirit.  :) I've understood in the past that I don't have to be afraid of unfriendly spirits and that the imagery they project is empty, but I understood this more completely during this experience.

Next I experiened myself traveling along side a train that traveled on a track, and a car that kept up with this train on a road. The point of this experience was to allow me to see that movement takes place within me, rather movement being something my being takes part in.

Next I found myself in a theatre that was packed with very happy people.  :) :) :)...  The seating was set up so that the stage was in the center of the theatre rather than in the back. I didn't feel as if I was in a seat. Rather I felt as if the theatre and the people were within my awareness.  This goes along with some past experiences which showed that when we experience oneness we feel as if others are within us. Or should I say a part of us?

I was shown a few other things, but I can't remember what they were. The key point is that I allowed my energy to reach a part of my crown chakra I hadn't allowed it to reach before, and unlike the bliss experiences which were reached without my energy reaching that part of my crown chakra, I was able to think very clearly, rather than go into a state where I couldn't continue to think.

Imagine you're standing on top of a mountain. The night is really clear and many stars can be seen. Perhaps millions, billions, trillions or even more, depending upon how far your awareness will stretch.  Each of these stars represents a spirit who has found the way to perfect wisdom, happiness, peace and love. Would it make sense to negate all of these beings, so only one self could exist?  Or does it make more sense that God created everything so many divine beings could exist, including the gurus who deny such a thing?

Quote:

Quote Albert: Would it make sense to negate all of these beings, so only one self could exist?  Or does it make more sense that God created everything so many divine beings could exist, including the gurus who deny such a thing?

Hello again Albert

It sounds to me like you are still misunderstanding. That’s ok. You will understand after you clear enough of the blocks to have this same experience. If energy is running to the crown chakra you might be getting close. Then you will say… oh yes Kathy, now I know what you are talking about. lol  8-)

The highest frequency level that I have experienced is absolute oneness. In this state of consciousness, which I have been in many times, there is only the golden white light and silence. Nothing else exists, only joy, light and silence. I interpret this as the divine essence of God. This essence, which is within each of us, penetrates downward through all of the other frequencies to the physical. It is the spiritual that creates the physical.

Form does exist on the lower frequency levels. Even in Swedenborg’s description of the highest heavens, form exists. You simply don’t experience form at that highest frequency of being. All you experience is what I can only label as absolute oneness with God. This is also the most incredibly humbling experience you can imagine, but you don’t even realize that until you’re back at a lower frequency where thought exists.

Love, Kathy

Kathy:

It seems like you're talking about a "you" who experiences it.  Going by the messsage etc I received, the intention isn't for there to be only one being all by itself in the end.  It would be mass spiritual suicide for things to end up that way.  Perhaps each of us can experience this oneness, but in order for each of us to be able to do so, we have to be here in some way.  You wouldn't be able to take part in this conversation if there wasn't a you who took part in it. Nor, would there be anybody you could have the conversation with.

Here is another way to put it. You have a bunch of fish in an ocean. Each fish reaches the point where it can experience the entire ocean. Each fish doesn't need to dissapear in order for this to take place, because they are a part of the ocean. An ocean doesn't lose its reality, because fish exist within it.

What if a person gets to the point where he or she can experience only the space that exists within a room, regardless of how much furniture exists within it? Does the furniture actually go away, or does a person simply stop noticing it for a while?

Ramana Maharshi was one of the most famous advocates of the non-dual viewpoint during the 19th century. As far as he was concerned there was only the one self.  One day my guidance showed me an image of him sitting at one end of a table with a business suit on (he usally wore only a loin cloth), a lady sat at the other half. I could tell this meant that Ramana's viewpoint wasn't balanced, because he wasn't acknowledging the creative aspect of being.

Another time I received the words, "There's been too much emphasis on consciousness, not enough on love." This message served the same purpose as the above.

Right now at this moment there might be a person who is having the experience you speak of. Does this mean that anybody who is taking part on this forum at  this moment doesn't exist, or is such a person simply having an experience that represents one viewpoint that doesn't encompass the manifest and the unmanifest at the same time? It seems that my experience served the purpose of showing how the manifest and unmanifest "DO" exist at the same time.

I do understand the point you are trying to make. For years I followed Eastern teachings that said the same thing.




Lights of Love wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2008 at 5:10pm:

Quote: Quote Albert: Would it make sense to negate all of these beings, so only one self could exist?  Or does it make more sense that God created everything so many divine beings could exist, including the gurus who deny such a thing? Hello again Albert It sounds to me like you are still misunderstanding. That’s ok. You will understand after you clear enough of the blocks to have this same experience. If energy is running to the crown chakra you might be getting close. Then you will say… oh yes Kathy, now I know what you are talking about. lol  8-) The highest frequency level that I have experienced is absolute oneness. In this state of consciousness, which I have been in many times, there is only the golden white light and silence. Nothing else exists, only joy, light and silence. I interpret this as the divine essence of God. This essence, which is within each of us, penetrates downward through all of the other frequencies to the physical. It is the spiritual that creates the physical. Form does exist on the lower frequency levels. Even in Swedenborg’s description of the highest heavens, form exists. You simply don’t experience form at that highest frequency of being. All you experience is what I can only label as absolute oneness with God. This is also the most incredibly humbling experience you can imagine, but you don’t even realize that until you’re back at a lower frequency where thought exists. Love, Kathy

Kathy said: "The highest frequency level that I have experienced is absolute oneness. In this state of consciousness, which I have been in many times, there is only the golden white light and silence. Nothing else exists, only joy, light and silence. I [[interpret]] this as the divine essence of God. This essence, which is within each of us, penetrates downward through all of the other frequencies to the physical. It is the spiritual that creates the physical."





I want to emphasize the above. Especially the word interpret. A number of times I've had the experience of not being there as a thinking being, and only a very peacefull bliss existed. When I would come out of such a state it would be hard to know for how long I was in it, because time would be something I would lose track of.   There would also be an inclination to slip back into this bliss, until I would decide it is time to get back to life. I wouldn't experience joy during such an experience. Just very deep peace and stillness. Also vastness and lots of energy that hasn't been modified into anything.

As I already wrote,  after such experiences my guidance would give me some clues that I need to find a way beyond this experience. One that integrates manifested life.

Perhaps we haven't experienced the exact same thing. It is hard to tell simply by using words. Regarding seeing white light, I wasn't aware of seeing anything.  What I experienced is a state I could remember by feeling, not by thought.  My energy has been at my crown for a while, not at the part I wrote about above.  Perhaps it has been in that part of my crown, but it hasn't flowed threw my heart chakra in the required manner at the same time.  The balance that is required might be specific.  Lately I do see white light when I tune in, but I'm still conscious of my thought processes as I do so.

What an amazing thread, and such fun to experience you guys trying to describe that which cannot be described.

Great job!

Resonating with you all, share the bliss!

blink

Blink:

How about that which can't be remembered?

Here's an example of how it goes for me when I go into a bliss state.

I'll be sitting down and I'll wonder about one my attachments. I'll close my eyes and tune into an inner fullness, with the intent of seeing how when viewed from the vantage point of the inner fullness, I don't need the attachment. Sometimes I'll tune into this inner fullness to an extent where my existence as a thinking person goes away. When I come out of the state I can't use my thoughts to remember what I experienced, because my thinking mind wasn't there. I'll remember because of the deep sense of peace, bliss, fullness, vastness, timelessness and divinity that I feel as I pull out of the state. The fact of how the state tries to pull me back into it helps me remember it.

Similar to what has already been written, it seems like during the bliss state you experience what happens before manifestation comes to be, and love comes to be when manifestation comes to be. Love brings us back to oneness, which is bliss.

It seems like Kathy is better at remembering than me. If she has a tip on how to do so I'll be abliged.  Related to this, sometimes people will write about what they experience in such a state, and it sounds familiar.  I'll figure it out one of these days. ;)

P.S. My awakened kundalini also seems to have something to do with obtaining the bliss state. Sometimes I'll just be sitting there, my energy will be running really high, and I get pulled into a bliss state. I have to get up and walk around when this happens.


wrote on Apr 22^nd, 2008 at 6:58pm:

What an amazing thread, and such fun to experience you guys trying to describe that which cannot be described. Great job! Resonating with you all, share the bliss! blink

hi all, just jumping in a little..R said: It seems that my experience served the purpose of showing how the manifest and unmanifest "DO" exist at the same time.
_____

according to my meditations and studies, this is undeniably true, R.  :) I also think it is good news.
The confusion lies in the limitations of the 5 senses to pick up that what is "out there is also "In" here.

as far as the heart chakra, when it begins to spin faster, the frequency is increased the ability to feel love. otherwise known as the opening heart. as it opens one begins to feel not separated from others, instead love is a unifying thing/energy. the faster it spins the more love is perceived in the lifestream.
In order to get the heart fully open, dealing with fears surrounding belief systems, and those constructs helps the heart open more. the reason is that fear is not felt while feeling love; as opposites, they cannot exist in the same space of the mental or heart at the same time.
so as I see it, by focusing in on what is love, all by itself, without desire, without expectations, but what is this thing we call love?

here we call it PUL. p is for pure.  then it has no conditions to fulfill either.

its interesting love can be shared, but fear cannot be shared. nobody has every said to another, I am coming over now to have tea and crumpets then I will share a fear I have with you. lol.

the word share seems congruent with the word love.

I think we are all love, yet this is our essence, and at the same time, Love becomes the definition of the mystery of God.
Our belief systems, in that regard become like our play things, of the personal ego, and the ego loves to divide and separate itself out from all others, so the ego does not believe in sharing.

ending on a positive note, the body is a vehicle for spirit. It can become light filled, with a different kind of energy, not experienced before, and this is like a quickening so called by the bible, (I think)

a quickening and an increase in frequency in our chakras does seem related. I am adding a personal note that my body has changed within the last year or so, and I feel lighter when I walk, like a springy step I never had before. yet a downside is here.

the slightest wish or thought of dying and my body complies to begin to die. weird huh? I mean that my immune system will be influenced by my thoughts very quickly as if I had made a wish to it, it will respond to do whatever I tell it to.

So we must be vigilant and only think thoughts of life and abundant life if we wish to stay on the planet. and it is so very necessary to love one another, there is no reason to live in a world without love..

just my thoughts, theres nothing here to be gained without being able to express love openly, to all, and to be able to also receive what is unconditional love, and what is our essence.

:)

I agree with you Alysia. Especially the fear part.

It's been a work in progress for me figuring out what it means to have a spirit connection to Christ.  There are a lot of people who believe that you better believe in him or else. This seems like a fear based approach. I figure he is way too wise, loving and humble to present himself as a dictator that you better believe in or else.  I say this even though I've had experiences and have received messages which state that God did give Christ divine authority. To what extent this authority extends, I don't know. I figure when we move on to the World of spirit, as long as we are loving and humble, we'll find out about all kinds of things that contradict what we believed while here. Where is the need of an oppresive approach? Humility and love will take care of everything.

Recoverer,

Huh, what did you say, I was busy making my sign, the one that says "Who needs death, I've got bliss and love. Take your pick."

I think I need something to carry around. It's more fun that way.

---------------

So, then I wondered, why did I say that? It's so ambiguous. I mean, am I simply dismissing the very idea of death, or actually acknowledging it?

I tend to agree with Kathy. Form is so transient, so subject to interpretation. Can we describe it as a gem? Many-sided. I tend to agree that absolute truth is beyond form.

blink

Quote:

Quote Albert: It seems like you're talking about a "you" who experiences it.  Going by the messsage etc I received, the intention isn't for there to be only one being all by itself in the end.  It would be mass spiritual suicide for things to end up that way.  Perhaps each of us can experience this oneness, but in order for each of us to be able to do so, we have to be here in some way.

Albert, this is where I think there’s a misunderstanding. I’m not saying that we end up with all of us being one in the end at least not to the point where there is no self-awareness along with the awareness of others. I guess I don’t know, but I wouldn’t think “absolute oneness” would be very probable as an end point considering humanity has the knowledge of duality within its consciousness. Isn’t that how we individuate? ;)

Anyway, I want to explore something else you brought up so I’m starting another thread that asks the question, “how do we evolve towards love?” and hopefully lots of people will respond.

Blink, "absolute truth" seems a better way to say this rather than absolute oneness. Thanks!  8-)

Love, Kathy

Okay Kathy:

Great idea to start the other thread.