What really convinced you that the afterlife is real?.I know why I think it is,but i would like to know why the other people on this site think its real.was it by your own experience,or was it by just reading about it.George

Hi George. at 18 I wasn't convinced entirely of the afterlife and knew if I were to find the answer to this question I'd have to something quite drastic to get my own experience as it wasn't just going to come to me without an effort.
I had always been one to believe, ever since at age 5, my brother patiently explained to me that there were was a god, as well a host of angels and they all lived inside that there church over there with the steeple on top.
yet belief is not experience getting. you have to attain a "knowing" or a single belief does not much to influence reality creating.
at 14 I read a book called the Unobstructed Universe by Edward Stewart White. This explanation of the universe on the other side in comparison with the physical universe is pure scientific and way way beyond my mental capacity to understand at age 14, yet I felt compelled to plow through it for my answers.

then I met a fellow and we tried trance channelling together. I was not used as a channeller that night, (my 18th year)  however, he was. He had exactly the right temperment to be a channeller.

even though a voice spoke through my friend, and my friend was entirely unaware this had occurred, I still needed further "knowing."

so that same night after the channelled experience, and btw, so intense had it been for him that we ended our friendship that night..it was too scary for him to deal with. I did not want him to be harmed in any way but I had to continue my search.

that night I had asked for further evidence of this reality and entities came and banged pictures on the wall, as I had asked them to do that specifically. they then asked me to come out in my astral body and I declined being, young, immature and scared out of my wits.
I felt the cold of this other region as my teeth chattered uncontrollably and my body was moved to a sitting position involuntarily and this too was frightening.
I saw nothing in the room but heard voices in my head which instructed me to not seek power for myself in this world but to choose the ways of JC.

after this experience it acted to open a doorway to other psychic phenomenon to be occurring.

love, alysia

George:

I've had many experiences which have told me that the afterlife exists. I'm not certain which to mention first---I'm allowing the later part of Alysia's post to point the direction.

One night years ago when I was an atheist, I had what I refer to as my night in heaven experience. It is hard to speak of it in chronological order terms, but it seems as if it began with my finding myself in the vastness of space, but not physical space.  The knowledge was there that the story of Jesus Christ is true. This surprised me because I didn't believe this to be true at the time, but the knowledge was clear.

Next I found myself in a space like light realm. I didn't see nor hear anybody, but I knew that I was with many other beings. This realm was a wonderful place with a wonderful level of happiness. I had a strong feeling that everything works out perfectly in the end.  All of the problems of this World were gone. It was such a relief.  This realm wasn't a focus 25 belief system. It was a formless realm beyond focus 27.

I mentioned earlier that I didn't believe in Jesus Christ. I also didn't believe in the afterlife and God. But during this experience not only did I automatically understand that God, Christ and the afterlife exist, I completely understood how it was possible for them to exist without having to think about it. The knowledge was just there. It was like, "Oh yeah, that's how it is, of course!" At the end of the experience I saw a star flash, which I understood to be a symbol for Christ.

When the experience ended I was greatly dissapointed. I quickly allowed the experience to fade from my memory. Similar to how some NDE people forget their experience for a while. I say allow, but I believe doing so served a purpose. There are things I've gone through during my life that I would not had gone through if I remembered this experience. Even though some of these experiences weren't completely positive, it was important for me to go through them. They were a part of my path.

The memory of this experience came back to me shortly before I made conscious contact with spirit guidance. It is stronger now than it was during the days that immediately followed the experience.  I can't recreate the full magnitude of the experience simply by remembering it. However, I can remember that during the experience there were no doubts about what I was experiencing.

After I made contact with spirit guidance I've had a number of experiences and have received messages that confirm the reality of Christ.  Not an in oppresive fundamentalist way. I believe he came into the World to help, not to claim that he is the only light being who exists. He came with the hope that eventually each of us will discover that we are wonderful light beings who can live completely according to love and have many wonderful possibilities in terms of what we can become, if we choose such a path.

George I would like to know how you first became convinced of the afterlife, was it the time you saw two people when you were a crossing guard for children?

i believe based on personal experiences and what i have read. i am waiting to read dean radin's book, entangled minds. in it he claims scientific evidence for psychic phenomena
based on quantum mechanics and testing.

http://www.deanradin.com/

Yes laugingrain.also that this happened in broad datlight.It did not take me long to be covinced that there is life after death,I think I will remember that untill the day i pass on.George

george stone wrote on Mar 17^th, 2008 at 11:47pm:

Yes laugingrain.also that this happened in broad datlight.It did not take me long to be covinced that there is life after death,I think I will remember that untill the day i pass on.George

George I must say that was an extra ordinary encounter; and did those people appear solid flesh? and di you get close enough to touch them? and did they disappear into thin air? or just wander off into the distance?
I know you recognized the child from your childhood. was she your best friend from school days?
_______________
R said: Next I found myself in a space like light realm. I didn't see nor hear anybody, but I knew that I was with many other beings. This realm was a wonderful place with a wonderful level of happiness. I had a strong feeling that everything works out perfectly in the end.
_____

about that happiness level; in relation to an experience I had back in the 80s was similar that I noted how happy I was in comparison to what was my then C1 level.

I can only conclude it was a visit with my higher self as there were two of me to observe
1) happy well adjusted, no problems
2) C1 was unaware what happy was and was reclusive and defensive, with feelings of higher self intruded on her reality of being maladjusted.

We don't like to think that we are divided from being happy but it certainly got my attention to see this other me out there, and right in my face as if I was divided in two.
so from the standpoint of this very real seeming experience of 3 dimensional perspective, it was, I concluded what I see as a problem in C1 is no problem at all on the higher levels, and that's where all the solutions are. Therefore illusion is what we deal with in C1, that we are "stuck."
We're not stuck if the answer is already existent.

then you said later R, you had to forget to pick up some experiences where memory of this other realm would have prevented you from attaining your experience? that too, seems like two worlds in operation there.

love, alysia

R please read what I asked in the above post. I have another question might be pertinent to this question if u can answer it.
R said:
The memory of this experience came back to me shortly before I made conscious contact with spirit guidance. It is stronger now than it was during the days that immediately followed the experience.  I can't recreate the full magnitude of the experience simply by remembering it. However, I can remember that during the experience there were no doubts about what I was experiencing.
____

do u ever write these experiences down for later reference? it really helps to jog memory to write them down and often will clarify and add more detailed memory by doing it, but sometimes this is a process in linear time.
I once took a full year or so to unravel one of these experiences enough to satisfy myself what it meant and how I could best learn from it what changes I needed to make personally.
What I'd add, these experiences for the person experiencing it, leave no doubts.

doubt is to be uncertain, uncertainty is a little bit of fear. On the other side there is no fear, there is only love on these highest of levels.

for the people just beginning to look within at these experiences some of us post here, I'd say if there is fear in a dream or obe, you are surfing the lower astral level, which is quite all right, yet if you find yourself in a place where there is no fear, but wonder, or love, or even bliss, those are more important to be writing down for later reflection. they can even hold the answer to some question you may have burning in your soul.

love, alysia

Alysia:

Regarding the below, I'd say that my memory of my experience influenced me, even though it wasn't conscious for a while. For example, I started to read some of those books that deny the existence of Jesus the person, but something inside told me not to trust them. Whatever the case, as I stated, I've had some experiences since my night in heaven experience that I would not of had if I remembered the experience consciously, and I needed to have these experiences. It was really something when the memory of the experience came back to me. It was as if the experience happened yesterday. I couldn't believe that I forgot it, because everything was so certain and real while I had the experience.



LaffingRain wrote on Mar 18^th, 2008 at 12:24pm:

then you said later R, you had to forget to pick up some experiences where memory of this other realm would have prevented you from attaining your experience? that too, seems like two worlds in operation there. love, alysia

Yes alysia mary was solid and talked to me,I should have asked her how the afterlife was like.That was very inporent,but I was so shocked I could not get the words out.George

george stone wrote on Mar 18^th, 2008 at 6:15pm:

Yes alysia mary was solid and talked to me,I should have asked her how the afterlife was like.That was very inporent,but I was so shocked I could not get the words out.George

lol, it seems shock is not conducive to further inquisitiveness.. :D George, I wanted to know, if you can remember how they walked away...I thought that you might have glanced away and when u glanced back they were just poof!
but maybe (mother and daughter?) rounded a corner like physical people do.
___

thanks for answering so quick R  :) I'm pondering on something and using you for the pondering.

R said:

Alysia:

Regarding the below, I'd say that my memory of my experience influenced me, even though it wasn't conscious for a while. For example, I started to read some of those books that deny the existence of Jesus the person, but something inside told me not to trust them. Whatever the case, as I stated, I've had some experiences since my night in heaven experience that I would not of had if I remembered the experience consciously, and I needed to have these experiences. It was really something when the memory of the experience came back to me. It was as if the experience happened yesterday. I couldn't believe that I forgot it, because everything was so certain and real while I had the experience.
____
it seems strange to read denial books, maybe because you had been an atheist before the experience? would that be why you would read something like a book that denies that such a man walked here who performed miracles. That reminds me, that works are published denying the holocaust as well. I read about a 100 personal accounts of the holocaust of such minute detail I was never at doubt it happened and appalled anyone would be so certain it didn't, that they would spend so much time writing a book denying it happened. the same as JC, because wherever there is some smoke, there's been a fire, you can bet. it's just pure logic. but there's a lot of interpretations and religions, yet Christianity is the basis for a lot of religions..so hmmm. Christianity is also ontology principle, we are all family, that sort of thing. You can hardly find anyone against family of mankind theology.

what could be the purpose of denying historical events? Perhaps it's a matter of free press only and choosing well our reading material...I assume reading those books was a purpose for you too, but I don't understand atheists, because the more a person denies god, they are actually obsessed with the god question or they wouldn't even bother labeling themselves as an atheist and trying to disprove god, or the basic goodness that I see as god, that is in all of us behind the denial.

another answer for George here..when I was around 5 I was a lonely little girl, neglected and emotionally deprived. When my brother, who btw, was an atheist later on for awhile, he told me about the existence of not JC, but of a god being. He was brief because he was only 9 yrs old himself. As he talked a spirit came upon my being entering from the head and enveloping me in warmth and love and I was never lonely from that point on, but shored up so to speak. This somewhat supports George's original question, but it was more like a road sign pointing to where my life was heading.

I sometimes think it was my higher self being grounded into the small body of my self. I was so happy, speaking of happiness.

R, regarding those experiences you mention that you would not have had, if you had remembered the night in heaven, I was wondering about what you meant; it would seem you have to many accounts to write down, so u lump them into experiences.

but now you look back and see how the pieces fit together? well, I'm sure we're all interested in hearing about one or two experiences that you had to go through to get to your level of understanding why you had to forget the truth in order to find the truth.

hope I said that right.  :-?  

maybe I can lead you a bit. (fat chance!)

After I read ACIM I asked with my god conversations what I should do now with my life. the slate was wiped clean so to speak. I had been ready to die because of illness in body, soul, and mind, and all that was healed up, so now there was this question to god where I should go, what to do now.

The only answer I had from ACIM was that god would take the final step for me, whatever in tarnation that meant, I was with faith that it was so.

I think the final step pertained to enlightenment, and nobody knows what enlightenment really means, so theres this little thing called patience is a virtue, in the spirit. faith, really.

so I wondered what to do in the meantime while waiting for god to take the final step. the answer I received as to specifics, was to do what I wanted to do. I started up a group to be exploring the basics of ACIM teachings, in order to become miracle minded, in order to follow JC, what he said long ago was burned in my soul, that WE WOULD DO MIRACLES! He meant US! for instance who else would he be talking about that could do miracles but us?

another leap in faith so to speak but patience and study is a constant companion. the group disbanded after a year as I had no leadership qualities and we had degenerated into a support group and I couldn't understand why nobody was a happy camper but me, but it's all good that we came together briefly. so while I was given the leeway to do as I pleased with the rest of my life by this inner voice, it was quite a freeing idea, that I could do whatever I set my mind to.

I wanted to find a mate. so with god's approval I found a few relationships where I would be studying human psychology. each relationship provided no security, but provided more insight into relationships, and I became a little like Carrie Fisher in Sex and the City, or love in the city as I'd like to call it.

each relationship defined who I was, rather than who the other was. Which is the eternal question here WHO and WHAT are we? None of us can escape the asking of that.

Know thyself. So the others taught me who I was and that is the gist of what enlightenment really is. I gave up seeking enlightenment because the act of seeking it, is the same act of denying that you can attain it. but I didn't give up studying ontology and theology, nor the idea that what JC said about us doing miracles is true, as soon as stop protesting we are not worthy to stand beside what he taught, what he said.

the miracle minded will see miracles everywhere in the smallest act of love, in the sunrise and sunset, everywhere the miracle is ready to surface for them that hold out their hands trusting.

love...I'm going to go sing karaoke, hey, how about this number, Love Can Build a Bridge. thank god for the miracle of the Judd's.

here's a Thomas Merton quote which came from Frank DeMarco, it explains the spiritual life better than me:

The spiritual life is to be earnestly pursued as though no spiritual life existed. This is the only safe and sane way to travel in the deep waters of the Spirit. Indeed, such childlike simplicity in the face of God expresses a realization that there is, in fact, no spiritual life as such separate from life itself. There is only one life, and that is God’s life which he gives to us from moment to moment, drawing us to himself with every holy breath we take.

cut the long boring crap please :P

Alysia:


That's a good comparison, the way some people have tried to deny the holocaust. An argument against something such as the holocaust doesn't become true, simply because somebody can present such an argument in a logical way.

Regarding what enlightenment is, I prefer to think in terms of getting to the point where one can live according to love completely. Things will take care of themselves once a person reaches this point.

Regarding examples of why it was good to forget my night in heaven experience for a while, here's an example. Consider the meditation group I used to be a member of, the one I've spoken about before. If I had remembered my night in heaven experience, I would not have become involved with the group. Despite the fact that the group was led by a false guru, there were benefits of being with the group. It helps that I never officially became a disciple of the guru. Something within told me to not officially do so. The list:

1.      There were a lot of wonderful loving people in the group. It was a positive experience to interact with them for a number of years. We learned from each other.
2.      I had two cats that I loved. It was good to dedicate myself to life forms other than myself.
3.      I learned about healthy ways of eating.
4.      I spent a lot of time meditating, which provided me with a lot of practice tuning into the awareness aspect of myself. Unfortunately the teachings didn't acknowledge the creative aspect of being enough. If one wants to become and integrated being, one needs to learn to be a master of all of one's self, rather than denying the existence of half of one's self.
5.      I dedicated a lot of my free time to the group. It is true that the group was led by a false guru and its teachings had limitations. However, because I dedicated time with a spirit of giving, it spiritually benefited me to do so.
6.      It was important for me to find out through my own experience what eastern teachings are about. I wouldn't be able to receive spirit guidance and practice in the manner I do today, if I didn't first find out to what extent eastern teachings are true.
7.      My life isn't over yet, so who knows what benefits will be found in the future.  ;)

thanks for sharing R. Ian you're rude. if you don't like a thread theres tons of other threads u can go to here to alleviate your boredom.

modify later:  :) I never got a chance to welcome you here Ian. thought about what you said about how you don't like long boring posts. I was the same way when I first came here, it was a job to read long posts. later, after reading short nonsensical posts, I wished I had the long boring ones back!

In order to follow a discussion between Recoverer and I though, you'd have to read the archives. we're sort of continuing a dialogue from there and we're discussing belief systems as pertains to religions.
I agree, it's tedium, but you're welcome to join in and sorry it's just crap to you, but can't please 'em all, now can we?  :) I would hope everyone who comes to these forums find something they can use, find something they might have been looking for.
In most cases though, the truth is, we only get out of a board in direct proportion to what we put into a board. the rule is what you give you get.

so when you say this is crap, I impulsively gave you some of my crap back. I should be a bigger person than that. please don't let me bother you, and again, hope you find what you need, we are all in the same boat.

Hi alysia.There was only mary who was solid,her mothers face appeared on the side of marys face,and yes they did vanish.I was near enough to touch her,but i didnt.George

george stone wrote on Mar 20^th, 2008 at 12:05am:

Hi alysia.There was only mary who was solid,her mothers face appeared on the side of marys face,and yes they did vanish.I was near enough to touch her,but i didnt.George

thanks George. so Mary appeared solid and then vanished; thats how I remembered what you said. just wanted to make certain I had it correct. George, if this had been my experience, I wouldn't have been able to continue my job because I would be in a state of wonder or even shock.

Unless you were in a state of complete acceptance of what you saw and felt and heard, then later on you might have gone thru a belief system crash what we call it here.

do you think a belief system crash occurred for you?  thanks so much starting a totally relevant afterlife topic George. It's kind of rare around here but I think it helps to put up such experiences like you have. There's not a lot of intellectualism, just this happened, this is what I experienced, and one can make of it whatever we wish.

In addition, what you experienced opened you up to being able to communicate with your wife after she passed on. So you are in the smaller percentage of folks who "know" beyond doubt of this other dimension. therefore you must not have fear of crossing over when it comes your time, am I right?

I mean, you're probably not pulling your hair out over dying because of the experiences. I think that's the best we can hope for when we think on the afterlife, is to not have to go into that darkness screaming I'm not ready.

love to you George for all you've given us over the years. alysia

Thanks alysia.No I am not afraid to die,to me it like walking through another door into a new life where there is no pain,and where love is all there is. George