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Message started by betson on Mar 1st, 2008 at 10:25am

Title: Re: Fundamentalists read the story of Suba
Post by betson on Mar 1st, 2008 at 10:25am
Greetings!

That is fine satire--it got me!

For about two- thirds or so I was all keyed up wanting to illustrate it for children!
Collages of African-printed cloth with cut out painted figures applied.
(Juditha and I and others here are involved in art, ---  
there are alot of topics here I'd like to illustrate, actually.)

But I digress from this thread's purpose....

Bets



Title: Re: Fundamentalists read the story of Suba
Post by Alan McDougall on Mar 2nd, 2008 at 3:58am
Justin,

I posted it here because it would simply not be read off topic. It is indeed relevant to the afterlife as the thinking in this short story indicates that some belief systems would put all those outside their exclusive community into everlasting banishment An approach to a loving God that I hate.

Everlasting banishment  as you well know can only exist in the afterlife, as you well know.

However, I will take note of your advice!

alan

Title: Re: Fundamentalists read the story of Suba
Post by ultra on Mar 2nd, 2008 at 9:24am
Alan,
What happened to your story?
anyway -
Totally agree with Bets - Brilliant satire!
Alan, this is (was) some of your best writing.
I can see the engineer in you with the careful construction.
Bravo!
If you can manage a few more scenes revealing yet other misconceptions, etc., I think you will have a full play.
Sometimes satire is a most potent form of of illumination.

What your one act play reveals so well -
It seems that one of the things that happens when God sends an Incarnation of Himself is that human beings (unconsciously) project their own known limitations into the personal or personified God, in this case Jesus , instead of expanding their conception of human possibility as exemplified by an illimitable incomprehensible impersonal God represented by the Incarnation, the Christ.
ie: punishing unforgiving father vs Compassionate, All Forgiving Father.

One can see or imagine the excruciating challenge all spiritual Masters of this level must face when they accept the mission of major human transformation, and also - it's no wonder when faced with this apparent conflict that Jesus would be crucified as His Teachings would represent an unbearable level of cognitive disonnance to an unaspiring humanity.   What 'theology' often does, at least in its worst form, is to merely institutionalize these 'faulty conceptions' into a collectivised doctrinal form, thus preserving and inculcating into subsequent generations. Today there are yet more contemporary teachings (God never stops, thank God) that seem even more radical compared to that relatively assimilated 'norm' that people are still reacting to and re-enacting even 2000 years later.

(to a lesser degree, and with variations, one sees this same projection by mass public into celebrities as in vajra's very good analysis in the 'Heath Ledger' thread, and also why we like to build them up/fly em high, then enjoy watching them tear down/crash and burn)


May I suggest the next scene?: Exploration of being 'born again' as the contemporary 'instant coffee' notion of/substitution with true God-realization. The now common idea that because one just found/got on the 'entrance ramp' to the freeway, that the journey is somehow complete - hardly the case? It may at some point, be better than wandering around on the dark side streets, but one still must stay awake, alert, keep the tank filled, hands on the wheel,  stay in lane - and keep moving forward... And perhaps like the Autobahn - there is no speed limit on this particular highway, excepting when taking one's own foot off the gas, which many b.a.'s do, sadly, right at the entrance ramp due to this misconception. When this misconception gets similarly institutionalized, we then see congestion on that entrance ramp!


- u

Title: Re: Fundamentalists read the story of Suba
Post by Alan McDougall on Mar 2nd, 2008 at 9:39am
Ultra,

Justin was not happy with me posting it hear,

so i will move it off topic, go there

alan

Title: Re: Fundamentalists read the story of Suba
Post by Alan McDougall on Mar 2nd, 2008 at 10:06am
Ultra,

Thank you so much for your confirmation about my satire Scuba, I feel it was appropriate to post this thread there, as these narrow exclusive fundamentalist would all gladly throw us in hell unless we become converted and submit to their ridiculous brain washing and hateful beliefs.

It is really relevant to afterlife knowledge as all these groups would throw us all gladly , as well as dear Scuba in hell forever. They simply love this idea from my experience .

Heaven and hell are after all real afterlife topics are they not?

I will repost it if perhaps you approach the forum with a conviction that it was indeed on topic.

alan

Title: Re: Fundamentalists read the story of Suba
Post by ultra on Mar 2nd, 2008 at 10:39am
Hi Alan,

It is not up to me, but frankly, since you are asking, I saw no problem with its relevancy in this forum.

As the author and originator of the thread it is up to you to determine the original location. There are something like 20+? forums here.

Any subsequent issue or controversey regarding relevancy and relocation would be Bruce's determination, since he is the moderator of this forum and also the owner of the site.  If people want to contact him with a complaint about the location of this thread, they are certainly free to do so.


At this point it seems to be entirely your call on how to handle what is and should be, imo a non-issue.


Anyway, allow me to try and keep things on-topic by asking you  - what do you think is the motivation or basis for people promoting this eternal afterlife damnation scenario?

- u

Title: Re: Fundamentalists read the story of Suba
Post by Alan McDougall on Mar 2nd, 2008 at 2:50pm
Repost


 Fundamentalists read the story of Suba
Today at 3:47pm      I put this story here as well in case you miss it in the other thread:  
 
FUNDAMENTALISTS READ THIS STORY OF SUBA  

The story of Suba an African girl  
 
The following trial and judgment is based on the teachings of the world’s leading clergymen and theologians. “My God is a god of love not the monster depicted by these idiots “in the following imaginary trial on the great judgment day of God”  
 
A theoretical Judgment Day for a young African girl named Suba, who died at age seventeen while giving birth to her first child:  
god: What do you have to say for yourself, Suba?  
 
Suba: I’m sorry, your holiness, I am frightened and I don’t understand the question.  
 
god: There is nothing to be frightened of, my child. I won’t hurt you [yet]. Tell me about your life.  
 
Suba: I was born number three of seven children. My mother and father loved us very much. They taught us many things like, food getting, fire cooking, clothes making, basket making, the rules of our tribe, and how to worship the great maker.  
 
god: That would be me. I am the Great Maker. Tell me about that. How did you worship me?  
 
Suba: Well, we were told to treat everyone in the tribe real good. That is what the great maker wanted all of us to do -- be real good to all people. We were told that the great maker would then be real good to us. Life was pretty good except when we didn’t have much food to eat, and when a bad tribe from far away came and burned our village and killed many of our people.  
god: Did you hate those bad men who killed your people?  
 
Suba: Yes, your holiness, of course we hated them.  
 
god: Do you know that it is a sin to hate?  
 
Suba: What is a sin?  
 
god: Something bad.  
 
Suba: I knew it was bad to sass back to my Mother and Father. I was but seven years old when my village was burned. I don’t think I hate them anymore. All I ever wanted was a place to live in peace with enough food to eat, and to raise my baby to be a fine woman. Is that bad, your holiness?  
god: You mean to tell me you have never done anything bad that you knew was bad?  
 
Suba: Yes I did, your holiness, many times. And my mother would hit my bottom with a stick if she saw me do something bad. But when I was having my baby, it hurt a hundred times more than when mother hit me with a stick. And that’s the last thing I remember until being brought here.  
 
god: You know, Suba, I had a son.  
 
Suba: I’ll bet you were real proud of him.  
 
god: No one will ever know how much. All his life, he taught people to love each other and to forgive each other for being bad, and even to love their enemies.  
 
Suba: He sounds like a nice man.  
 
god: Yes he was. But when he was just a young man, the worshippers of the great maker banded together and killed my son by nailing him to a tree.  
 
Suba: Oh, god! I am so sorry. I know you must miss him a lot.  
 
god: No, child. He’s alive with me. I brought him back to life only three days after they killed him. He is now the savior of all people on earth.  
 
Suba: We never heard of your son in Africa. I so wish that your son could have saved my tribe from those bad people when I was a little girl.  
 
god: My son can save people even if they are dead.  
 
Suba: Wow! That sounds too good to be true. How does you son actually save all people?  
 
god: He doesn’t save all people.  
 
Suba: But your holiness, you said he is the savior of all the people on earth.  
god: Yes, my child. My son is the savior of all people; it’s just that he doesn’t actually save all people.  
 
Suba: I don’t understand "he is, but he isn’t." If I would have ever said something as mixed up as that to my Momma, she would have hit me with a stick.  
 
god: Let me explain: My son died such a bad death to pay for all the bad things that bad people do. Now anyone who believes my son did a good thing for them, will not be hurt for the bad things they did, but will live for ever. I have written all these rules in a book called the bible. It says in the bible that what you get for doing bad is death. But if any one likes my son’s sacrifice for their bad life, I will give them a free gift of life.  
 
Suba: Oh god! I hardly know what to say. You mean if I believe in your son who did a good thing for me, even though I have often been bad, that you will give me a life that never ends?  
 
god: No child. Not you. You don’t understand the higher scholarship of  
 
Christian theology. You see, you don’t qualify to be saved.  
 
Suba: What is "c h r i s t i a n t h e o l o g y?"  
 
god: It’s too confusing, Child, not even theologians know what it is.  
 
Suba: Why don’t I "qualify?" What must I do to "qualify?"  
god: You don’t have to do anything to qualify. Salvation is by grace. That means it’s a free gift  
 
Suba: Then why don’t I qualify, your holiness?  
 
god: Well, what I mean is you can’t qualify for salvation, but you can be disqualified by not qualifying for the qualification that is not required, seeing salvation is free by grace. Or, ah, something like that.  
 
Suba: Do you reckon, your holiness, one of those theologians might be able to explain that a litter better for me?  
 
god: No, my child, besides, it is too late for you to be saved.  
 
Suba: But, your holiness, why is it too late?  
 
god: Because you didn’t accept my son and his sacrifice before you died giving birth.  
 
Suba: But, your holiness, I didn’t know of your son and his sacrifice before I died.  
 
god: Tough  child. I can’t be bothered with all the complicated details  
of trying to get everybody saved. Besides, most of the highest educated theologians in the world clearly teach that if one dies not knowing of my son’s sacrifice for them, it is too late to ever be saved.  
 
 
Suba: You mean my punishment for being bad will not be taken away by your son and I will be given death for ever?  
 
god: Not exactly, child. I know my bible says death, but my theologians thought that death was too good for bad people, so they changed it to a never-ending life of torture in fire. And it will hurt hundreds and hundreds and countless billions of times more than when you died giving birth. I will never stop burning your flesh, Suba, not even for a second, and, of course, your baby daughter will be burning right by your side. Actually most of Africa will be burning with you. Billions and billions. Just burning and burning. Billions and bill ... Excuse me, Suba, go ahead.  
 
Suba: But god, your holiness, why? Why?  
 
god: Look child, as one of my leading theologians recently suggested, it is not incumbent upon me to save everyone. Indeed it is not incumbent upon me to save anyone. Besides you are my enemy and I hate you. I know it doesn’t sound fair child, but you have to understand, these great theologians of the world have made these rules, and so my hands are tied.  
 
Suba: But god, I don’t hate you.  
 
god: Now don’t try to lay a guilt trip on me child, I said I hate you, you're my enemy, and that’s final.  
 
Suba: But your holiness, you said your son taught everyone to love their enemies?  
 
“”GOD: ANGELS OF THE GUARD, “THIS GIRL IS GETTING ON MY NERVES”. “THROW HER INTO THE FIRES OF HELL TO BURN SCREAM IN HORROR, DESOLATION, AND LONELINESS FOR EVER. AND EVER AND EVER, WITH NO END TO HER INFINITE TORMENT””  
“’ FOR THE TINY MINUTE FINITE TRANSGRESSIONS SHE LIKE ALL HUMANS OF ALL FAITHS HAVE DONE. ONLY” BORNAGAINCHRISTIANS” ARE SAVED FROM THIS HORROR!!  
 
god: Next Who are we now going to confine to everlasting torment?  
 
Satre reveals the rubbish of exclusive fundamentalist
'
This brief stort is to reveal the abject rubbish of exclusitivity and hatefull fundamentalism. God is love and loves all of humanity not a minute tiny within the beautiful vastness of the infinite cosmic
Regards  

Alan  

Title: Re: Fundamentalists read the story of Suba
Post by ian on Mar 2nd, 2008 at 6:47pm

Alan McDougall wrote on Mar 2nd, 2008 at 10:06am:
Ultra,

Thank you so much for your confirmation about my satire Scuba, I feel it was appropriate to post this thread there, as these narrow exclusive fundamentalist would all gladly throw us in hell unless we become converted and submit to their ridiculous brain washing and hateful beliefs.

It is really relevant to afterlife knowledge as all these groups would throw us all gladly , as well as dear Scuba in hell forever. They simply love this idea from my experience .

Heaven and hell are after all real afterlife topics are they not?

I will repost it if perhaps you approach the forum with a conviction that it was indeed on topic.

alan
i agree with your views about god. would a loving forgiving god cast people down into hell to be tormented for eternity for doubing his existence? it sounds evil and insane.

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