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Indigo children
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Indigo children is a term used within the New Age movement to refer to children who are alleged to possess paranormal attributes such as the ability to read minds.
The Indigo child concept was first publicized in 1999 by the book The Indigo Children: The New Kids Have Arrived, written by the husband-and-wife team of Lee Carroll and Jan Tober.[1] Carroll insists that the concept was obtained via conversations with a spiritual entity known as Kryon.
The reason for the use of the adjective "indigo" is not universally agreed upon: some sources link it with an early researcher into the phenomenon, who was synesthetic. It has also been claimed that these children appear with an indigo-hued aura.
Contents
•      1 Environment and evolution
•      2 Characteristics
•      3 Reasoning
•      4 Claimed Indigo abilities
•      5 Critical interpretations
•      6 Scientific investigation
•      7 Education
•      8 Commercialization
•      9 In fiction
•      10 References
•      11 External links
o      11.1 Proponents
o      11.2 Skeptic resources
o      11.3 Media coverage

[edit] Environment and evolution
The Indigo Child movement believes that the children in question are born with an empathic connection to Earth and others' thoughts. However, due to natural limits in infant communication, Indigo children's supposed abilities (empathy, telepathy, extra-sensory perception and extra-normal perception) are often suppressed by negative parental or societal influence. The Indigo Child movement therefore encourages parents to support those children in whom can be seen traits which are often labeled as negative by mainstream authorities but as positive by Indigo Child theorists.
[edit] Characteristics
Carroll and Tober identify ten attributes that they assert describe Indigo children[1]:
•      They come into the world with a feeling of royalty (and often act like it).
•      They have a feeling of "deserving to be here," and are surprised when others do not share that.
•      Self-worth is not a big issue; they often tell the parents "who they are."
•      They have difficulty with absolute authority (authority without explanation or choice).
•      They simply will not do certain things; for example, waiting in line is difficult for them.
•      They get frustrated with systems that are ritually oriented and do not require creative thought.
•      They often see better ways of doing things, both at home and in school, which makes them seem like "system busters" (non-conforming to any system).
•      They seem antisocial unless they are with their own kind. If there are no others of like consciousness around them, they often turn inward, feeling like no other human understands them. School is often extremely difficult for them socially.
•      They will not respond to "guilt" discipline ("Wait till your father gets home and finds out what you did").
•      They are not shy in letting it be known what they need.
In her article[2] Wendy H. Chapman (enlightenment teacher at and Director of Metagifted Education Resource Organization [2]) says that Indigo children will also display many of the following:
•      Have strong self esteem, connection to source
•      Have an obvious sense of self
•      Refuse to follow orders or directions
•      Get bored rather easily with assigned tasks
•      Are rather creative
•      Display strong intuition
•      Have either strong or no empathy for others
•      Develop abstract thinking very young
•      Are gifted and/or talented, highly intelligent
•      Are often identified or suspected of having ADHD
•      Are frequent daydreamers
•      Have very old, deep, wise looking eyes
Critics point out that these traits are not unique, and are observable in most children (see Critical interpretations below).
[edit] Reasoning
Adherents believe that this new type of child has come forward for a reason; most often suggested is that they will improve the world in some way. The changes generally discussed involve bringing peace, toppling corrupt institutions, and a shift from allopathic medicine to a greater understanding of more natural alternatives. Indigo children are said by proponents to be more in touch with something called the "Universal Truth", and do not tolerate or understand behaviors or systems that are not in harmony with it.
Indigo children are sometimes said to possess an extreme longevity, but given the birth dates above, experimental verifiability of this belief is impossible.
[edit] Claimed Indigo abilities
Many discussions of Indigo children in New Age literature (including Kryon literature) claim that Indigo children are born with part of their DNA activated that most people do not have activated. Some claim that it is junk DNA that they utilize to "swap out" higher-dimensional information, giving them special abilities.
These abilities are said to include purging HIV, advanced genius and psychic/telekinetic powers[3][4] speaking to the dead.[5] Further claimed abilities include:
•      Highly intelligent.
•      Often very creative.
•      Developmentally advanced in reading walking, talking, etc.
•      Psychic/intuitive abilities.
•      Multi-dimensionally awareness; they perceive a broader range of reality.
•      Telepathic abilities.
•      They sense and feel energies from people or other living things (aura reading).
•      Telekinesis, etc. Moving objects with their mind energy and thought.
•      Awareness of scientific, historical, anthropological and spiritual knowledge not consciously learnt. Sometimes called 'knowledge bombs'.
•      Awareness of past lives.
•      Extremely empathic to all creatures, not just humans but animals and plants.
•      They can communicate with the unseen world, spirits and angels.
•      Multi-dimensional healing abilities.
•      Manifest unusual artwork, languages and scripts.
•      Dual consciousness; feeling part human and part extraterrestrial.
•      Have a sense of mission or higher purpose.

[edit] Critical interpretations
Some critics feel that it is possible to use the traits assigned to Indigo children as an observation of social trends, rather than as a signifier of a new race or form of consciousness. One such trend is more and more children are viewing magical/mystical TV shows and media that use new-age interpretable language. Coupled with how children feed off the media in their own natural fantasy play, such mystical make-believe could be unintentionally falsely re-interpreted as signs of preternatural knowledge, maturity or "higher consciousness".
An example of this emerged in a 2006 article in the Dallas Observer which covered the Indigo Child phenomenon.[6] The reporter observed an eight year old boy named Dusk quizzed by a man on his "Indigo" status:
"Are you an indigo?" he asked Dusk. The boy looked at him shyly and nodded. "I'm an avatar," Dusk said. "I can recognize the four elements of earth, wind, water and fire. The next avatar won't come for 100 years." The man seemed impressed.
However, readers of the Dallas Observer wrote to inform the editor that Dusk may have been drawing on the Nickelodeon children's show Avatar: The Last Airbender. This highly rated television show features a twelve-year-old boy who is the reincarnation of the Avatar Spirit, has the power to manipulate (or "bend") earth, wind, water and fire, and was once frozen in suspended animation for 100 years. These similarities were not noted within the article, and the editor of the Dallas Observer later admitted they were not aware of the possible connection until several readers brought it to their attention.[7]
Some skeptics are concerned that Indigo children might really be children who have special learning needs. They may have autism, Asperger's syndrome, non-verbal or even behavioural learning issues; by labeling children as "Indigo" such children do not get the services they need to succeed.
[edit] Scientific investigation
Skeptics point out that the Indigo movement seems to lack verifiable evidence to support its claims. Because of this, it is considered pseudoscience. Although some of the authors of Indigo literature have degrees in psychology, Indigo Child is not a recognized term in the field of psychology.
Indigo literature frequently talks about "university studies" and "interested scientists," but give no actual citations. However, according to scientists such as Russell Barkley, Indigo children are often the offspring of New Age parents. Exposed to New Age thinking, it would be unsurprising if the children possess a greater tendency to use New Age language than earlier generations. Having been told that the vast majority of children are now Indigos, New Age parents in fear of suppressing this special generation may be encouraging antisocial behaviors. It has been observed that many of the traits of Indigo children could be more prosaically interpreted as simple arrogance and selfish individualism.
Critics have also voiced concern that teaching children that they are Indigo will encourage children to adopt sociopathic behaviors, such as a sense of human superiority, alienation, and a "bizarre" paranormal identity. (See Indigo:The color of Money)
[edit] Education
Educators, generally, have not embraced the Indigo Child supposition. Some alternative educators have accepted the Indigo concept, and have related their mission to the needs of Indigo children.[1][8] Philosophies that resonate with Indigos' style of learning may include experiential education, multiple intelligence strategies, project-based learning, unschooling, and student-centered learning [citation needed].
[edit] Commercialization
There has been significant commercial value in book and video sales, donations, speaking engagements, and one-on-one counseling session fees to parents of "Indigo" children. In "Indigo: the color of money", an article on Skepticreport.com, Lorie Anderson has pointed out the potential commercial value of the "Indigo" concept for James Twyman, author of the video documentary, The Indigo Evolution. Numerous other commercial websites offer indigo-child-themed goods for sale such as books and new-age healing devices as well as videos and other media.
[edit] In fiction
Thirty years before the Indigo movement, the science fiction novel Childhood's End by Arthur C. Clarke featured the children of Earth beginning to display high intelligence and telekinetic abilities for the purpose of transitioning mankind to a higher plane of existence.
In 2003, a movie Indigo was released. The movie has grossed $1,190,000.[9]
In the arcade-adventure computer game Fahrenheit (also known as Indigo Prophecy), an Indigo Child, Jade, is thought to be a prophet destined to bring some powerful truths into the world.
In the episode "The Unusual Suspect" of the television series CSI, a 12 year old girl named Hannah is said to be an Indigo Child. She claims responsibility a murder of which her brother has been accused.

ALAN

Alan, you kill me with your long posts dear, your killin me softly.

But to continue the post which is very informative I`d like to ask everyone here if anyone feels they have any of the symtoms of a indigo kid themselves (be it fully developed or not).

So to kick away any possible scaredness, I`ll go first.

I feel I am telepathic - I sometimes sense what a person is thinking before they say it. (Use to drive my teachers crazy, for I always had my hands up before everyone else)

and I can feel souls presence.

and I can predict 90% occurances according to my intuition.

I did fit the profil as a kid, which you had written up there Alan. Never have looked up the word Indigo children, but it making me want to know how everyone else is here.

If we get somewhat of a clear view of our capabilities then I`ll bet you we will all understand how come we get "stuck" here together.

(nice to be stuck with you guys by the way)

Nanner  

I found this link: http://www.starchild.co.za/what.html

Does this help anyone?

 I take the middle path with the whole Indigo thing.   On one hand, there seems to be something to it, but to some extent i agree with Alan's post too.   Basically, i do believe there is a higher, an ever higher percentage of children coming in from the faster vibrating dimensions of the 5th, 6th, 7th, etc. of the Earth system, and also more coming in from other systems more developed and in tune than our own (read "non human systems").  

But, when we get into exact aura colors, exact years and periods, and certain authors who seem to have a bit of an agenda (like popularizing and selling a product)... i believe its important to use discrimination too. A lot of what is described as indigo traits, are very similar to astrological tendencies of those with strong Uranus, Neptune, and/or Jupiter energies, and to a lesser extent when the last 3 signs are strongly highlighted in the chart, and especially when a person has both; both the highlighted planetary energies mentioned with the latter 3 signs (and also Sagittarius to some extent).

I would say its a more general trend, of more mature Souls coming in more and more.
Like attracts and begets like, and so the more intune, balanced, and faster vibrating the collective energies get, the more intune, balanced, and faster vibrating Souls are going to come in, speaking in a more collective and general sense.  This Galactic, Winter Solstice Sun alignment seems to be really speeding up the vibratory rates of our whole system.  Particularly on average they (indigo like souls, or more mature and developed souls) will be born to Mothers who have awakened to a more universal love as well as a physical/emotional-mental-spiritual balance.    

  Even in Yeshua's example, while the Age and cycle he was born into, wasn't the fastest vibratory one there is, there was an unusually intune and balanced group of people (the Essenes), who by hard work and dedication over centuries, helped to foster conditions ripe for his entrance.   They and those conditions attracted and allowed for such a powerful and pure expression in the material dimension during a somewhat slow vibrating cycle collectively.  More particularly, his very intune, loving, aware and holistically balanced mother was a big part in his birth.

 Even the physical body, needed to be fit and attuned more to Light than the average, for such a Consciousness to complete its mission fully and completely, like It did.  


Nanner wrote on Jan 21^st, 2008 at 7:18pm:

Alan, you kill me with your long posts dear, your killin me softly. But to continue the post which is very informative I`d like to ask everyone here if anyone feels they have any of the symtoms of a indigo kid themselves (be it fully developed or not). So to kick away any possible scaredness, I`ll go first. I feel I am telepathic - I sometimes sense what a person is thinking before they say it. (Use to drive my teachers crazy, for I always had my hands up before everyone else) and I can feel souls presence. and I can predict 90% occurances according to my intuition. I did fit the profil as a kid, which you had written up there Alan. Never have looked up the word Indigo children, but it making me want to know how everyone else is here. If we get somewhat of a clear view of our capabilities then I`ll bet you we will all understand how come we get "stuck" here together. (nice to be stuck with you guys by the way) Nanner

 Hi Nanner, while i don't think of myself in terms of an "indigo child" for the most part, i do fit a lot of the cookie cutter expectations, interpretations, and traits.  And i have quite a bit of an indigo like shade of blue in the mental part of my aura, but more purple shades all in all.  I certainly felt quite different and had a hard time "fitting in" while growing up, and a lot of that was in how others tended to treat me as if i was strange to them, and thus something to either be shunned or actively picked on.  

 Around the time my mom got pregnant with me, it was one of the most intune, balanced, and idealistic periods of her life, though not without major material challenges and stress.    For example, she had a much more vegetarian and live food lifestyle around then, generally healthier than most of the rest of her life.   She had then, and pretty much always had strong universal, spiritual type inclinations, with an emphasis on love and compassion to all.
 As mentioned before, she had some very interesting and vivid E.T. dreams around that time too, and i was the first successful pregnancy after many miscarriages and doctors telling her that she would never be able to have a child.  I've had some E.T. experiences too.

 A practicing sensitive whom a percentage here know and seem to deeply respect, Linn, once said that she perceived that i was a "Star child".   I didn't really know what she meant, because i guess we had different interpretations of what that entails.   My definition of Star Child, is a mature Soul who enters into the Earth/Solar system from another energy system with little or no previous direct physical Earth experience as an incarnate human.    

 I don't believe that this fits me, even though i know i have a few non human Disc members in my immediate Disc and may be a "hybrid" in this life.   I've been pretty directly connected to the Earth/Solar system for awhile now, from what i've found out.  A mix of a little bit addiction, and a lot of desire to help out.

 Some "indigo like" traits:

Have always been, since a young child, very independent in certain ways.  When i was even a young child, i spent a lot of time out in the woods by myself, was very content with my own company.  I started to do a lot of things from a young age, like use a blender, make my own food, etc.

 From a young age, especially when i was very young, i was very socially conscious.   Wanted to be of service to others, felt a lot of compassion towards the World in general, to others, could feel others pain.  

 Developed, strong will, but would listen to reason and to love.   Very deep feelinged and thinking from a young age, throughout childhood.  

 Became aware of psychism, universal love principles (Oneness), meditation, spirituality, principles of karma, yin-yang polarity, interest in astrology, etc, in a conscious, reasoning out sense, when pretty young, started when i hit puberty.  Also became aware of the "changes" around that time.
 Could read people, for the most part, extremely well, except when it came to prospective girlfriends, seemed i oft ignored my intuitive sensing of others in that department big time.  :-? ::)

 Did "psychic" experiments in beginning of High School, to test out some theories and intuitions, like the whole "what's up with the sense of being started at" phenomena.   Found out a percentage of people in classes, would consistently on average, sense this more immediately and clearly than others, and females were the majority in this group.  Was fairly "psychic" in some ways, particularly in character reading, precog dreams, knowing certain things.

 Was very artistic and creative from a young age, could draw unusually well and had a pretty good ear for music despite having childhood hearing problems.    

 Was considered mentally/intellectually brilliant first starting in elementary.  Had the option to go to gifted school/program, but never did.   This went a bit downhill once the physical and emotional bodies started to become very toxic and imbalanced, which started to become noticeable in middle school and in high school manifested as "dis-ease" conditions like psoriasis, heat hives, etc.  
But never really trained the intellect in an academic way because of lack of interest in (and after puberty extreme dislike of) school and accomplishing what was thought to be needless, materialistic, and image oriented goals and since i sensed the changes would culminate in my life, i felt "what's the point".  On one level, wanted to be liked and to fit in for awhile, but also not a conformist for conformity's sake.

 I have a developed and strong directness, honesty, and sincerity yet balanced with tact and consideration (speaking only on average and in general), which seems to be somewhat rare in this world and the former seems to get me into social trouble quite a bit.  Too "real" and open for most people's and groups tastes.  

 Despite the many challenges constantly presented before self, on many different levels, and oft simultaneously, throughout childhood, tried very hard to stick to innate tendencies and ideals of treating others with kindness and respect.   Didn't (and don't) always succeed, but worked at it more and more and tried even when self loathing and severe, suicidal depression became part of the experience and attitude or when others treated me extremely negatively.  

  In any case, i consider "indigo", "crystal", star child, etc. to be limiting and mostly unnecessary labels, which have the tendency to foster ego reactions and tendencies.   I view myself more as a individualized and freewilled aspect of God, who is seeking to return to Home (notice how much "Home" sounds like OhMmm) and on the way trying to help others on that path.
Maybe its "egotistical" or what not of me, but i am aware that i may be further on this path towards completion/wholeness than some, but its not something i concentrate on or give importance too.  
I see it as our true natures and reality, and  I'm mostly trying to take it day by day, and living more so in the present now, with a detached awareness of and interest in the past and future.   Mostly i want to spiritually develop myself, so i can be of greater and more effective help to others, to see consistently and always see all  more truly and clearly as beautiful and awesome aspects of God, and as other parts of a more Total Self.

Definitely easier said than done, fo shoh.

Imagine, for a minute, that you are a parent with a "different"
kid.
Would you want to accept that he/she was "disabled"? "Impaired"?
That when the bully at school called your kid a "tard" at recess, said bully
was not being "ignorant" or "stupid", but merely observant, honest (albeit brutally so) and perceptive?
If you said "yes", then you're not a typical parent.
Most people would like to think, REALLY think, that their "different"
child was GIFTED in some way.
Hence, people fleeing from diagnoses like autism, Asperger's, ect.
and converging like a hungry mob on the teachings of the prophets (or is it "profiteers"?) of the dawning age of the "Indigo Children."
These things are so simple, a schmuck like me can figure 'em them out. (Why is it that so many otherwise intelligent people CANT figure them
out then? Go figure...)

B-guru

Alan "labeling" preferably without condition is the only human way to structurize a thought for communication, so therefor I find it okay. Theres so many discriptions and terms used for spiritual "can do".

Can you imagine the impact of bringing together those that feel their sense of spirituality. Can you imagine the energy in that particular room, then? Thats why I ask the question of who feels "what".

Hugs,
Nanner

Old Dood wrote on Jan 21^st, 2008 at 8:27pm:

I found this link: http://www.starchild.co.za/what.html Does this help anyone?

 Hi Old Dood, thanks for sharing.  While i didn't completely resonate with and totally agree with that article, i found some parts pretty interesting, and especially this part: "The first thing most people notice about Crystal Children is their eyes, large, penetrating, and wise beyond their years. Their eyes lock on and hypnotize you, while you realize your soul is being laid bare for the child to see."


 I can highly relate to that, as i've been getting comments on my eyes since i was a babe.   Some people seem to really like my eyes (a higher percentage being and having been women), or many seem to shy away or even avoid same sometimes.   Why the latter, i can only guess because they are large, very penetrating, and intense in nature.  Kind of laser eyes.  People have commented that it feels like i can look through and deeply into them.  When i was a baby, people made those kinds of comments to my Mom as well, so she later mentioned once or twice.

 I remember being highschool sitting with my best friend during lunch and talking, and him (he is not gay btw) all of a sudden saying something like, "It's very easy to get lost in your eyes, they're very deep, kind of strange and unusual..."

This was quite uncharacteristic statement on his part (and i was very surprised at the time), as he was especially then and still is to some extent, highly guarded, self protective, and oft gives off a rather aloof vibe.   Yet, he is innately sensitive with his Aquarius 12th house Sun and South Node, Pisces Merc., Pisces Venus square Neptune and CON ASC, Scorpio Moon in 8th, etc.  

 Occasionally, i will meet someone, and oft times their eyes just seem different, and sometimes i get a feeling that they are first or near first timers in this system and came from some very fast vibrating systems to help out.  

Their eyes are similar to other folks, with an Earth background, who i would call "old souls" but at the same time, somewhat different and its hard to put an exact description of why they are somewhat different even though similar.  

 In any case, truly eyes are the windows to the Soul.  

I believe it is possible that advanced souls are incarnating into the World. I don't know about the whole Indigo theory. Read below and see how many children Nancy Ann Tappe, the originator of the term Indigo Children, believes are Indigos. If this is the case, there is no need for people to go through a list in order to determine if their child is an Indigo, because just about every child who lives today is an Indigo.

How about KATHY (LIGHTS OF LOVE) and other people who see auras. Do your findings match Nancy Ann Tappe's findings?

"The term Indigo children originates from the 1982 book "Understanding Your Life Through Color," by Nancy Ann Tappe. Tappe, a self-proclaimed synesthete and psychic, claimed to posses the ability to perceive people's auras. According to her own writing, she began noticing that many children were being born with "indigo" auras during the late 1970s. Today, she estimates that 97 percent of children under ten, and 70 percent of those age 15 to 25, are "Indigo."[1]"

From Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigo_children

And this article:

http://www.todayslocalnews.com/?sect=lifestyles&p=1170

recoverer wrote on Jan 24^th, 2008 at 4:31pm:

I believe it is possible that advanced souls are incarnating into the World. I don't know about the whole Indigo theory. Read below and see how many children Nancy Ann Tappe, the originator of the term Indigo Children, believes are Indigos. If this is the case, there is no need for people to go through a list in order to determine if their child is an Indigo, because just about every child who lives today is an Indigo. How about KATHY (LIGHTS OF LOVE) and other people who see auras. Do your findings match Nancy Ann Tappe's findings? "The term Indigo children originates from the 1982 book "Understanding Your Life Through Color," by Nancy Ann Tappe. Tappe, a self-proclaimed synesthete and psychic, claimed to posses the ability to perceive people's auras. According to her own writing, she began noticing that many children were being born with "indigo" auras during the late 1970s. Today, she estimates that 97 percent of children under ten, and 70 percent of those age 15 to 25, are "Indigo."[1]" From Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigo_children And this article: http://www.todayslocalnews.com/?sect=lifestyles&p=1170

 I get the sense that this is a more complicated issue than what some have portrayed it as.  I read those articles you shared.  

 Here are some thoughts off the top of my head.   While i rarely see the colors of the aura in a more physical sense, i do sense and get info in terms of color, and i would say that various blue frequency radiations are becoming more common in people's auras lately.    But more so the regular blues, the pale and medium shades more so.  A very dark, muddy, navyish type blue has always been somewhat common in amounts, and is oft indicative of depression, apathy, and not following one's path in life.  

  2nd, i'm not sure being a "synesthete" is the same thing as being clearly psychic, and seeing/sensing the less physical, and nonphysical field radiations around people.    The former, seems to be more related to physical issues, oft damage to the brain is involved.   Hence, while she may perceive a lot in color, it's not necessarily what an aura perceiver with a wide open 6th center is perceiving.  

 Also, one doesn't need to see auras, to discriminate some basic, but important stuff here.   It seems like she and others, have used the term indigo to describe and represent a more actualized and spiritually attuned Soul, much more than the average has been for a long time.  

 Look around you, would you say that almost half of people age 35 to 25 fit that description (in my largely materialistic and very self focussed peers)?  Would 70 percent of people from ages 15 to 25 fit that?    Or look around at at the average, younger kid, come on, they're mostly all very spiritually developed?   She must be hanging around with different children and peers than i have.   Go  to the average college, and one will see how many spiritually advanced indigo types there are. ::)  Sure, they want to change the world one beer and E pill at a time.

  Maybe a percentage of these have more blue in their aura than what the average has been for a long time, but all these spiritually highly developed and actualized Souls?    If its anything, its more of a potential waiting to be awakened.  

 Cause, if this was the case, growing up i just would not have been so picked on, shunned, etc. if so many others were vibing so much more closer with me--i just turned 28 and fall into the 40 percent category, and come near to the latter part of the 70 percent.   I would have been considered more "normal", wheras it was quite the opposite.  I felt and was made to feel quite a bit like "Powder", though the differences weren't so dramatic and obvious.

 It just seems rather plain and obvious to me, that the percentages aren't nearly as high as she has said.   Or perhaps, "indigo" is not as advanced as some have characterized it to be?  I find it interesting that so many are saying indigo this, indigo that, what about a faster vibrating color frequency like violet?   True violet is definitely a faster vibrating frequency rate than indigo, and even many shades of purple are (depending on the ratio and balance of blue to red).    

 Much of this is and will occur according to "like attracts and begets like" law of energy resonation.   Has humanity, as a whole and collectively, grown so much spiritually so quickly?   Sure, technology wise things have fairly exploded in the last 60 years, but technology is not directly related to spiritual growth at all.
 Sure, there are more people awakening (spiritually) everyday, but its still yet largely a gradual process, which is probably why when Monroe looked at our probable future, it wasn't until well after the year 3000 that humanity has finally gotten to the point of mass ascension.  

 Thats over 1000 years from now, and there are many generations to be born from now to then.        

 And about auras and indigo more specifically.   Now, there is a big difference between someone having a little patch of indigo in the mental layer of their aura, as opposed to someone with it rather predominant--especially as the first or second strongest color in the mental layer of the aura.    

 It's the sheer predominance of one color over others, which can indicate a condition wherein one can say she or he is an "indigo" or "violet" type.     I don't get that a lot of people have indigo as a predominant color radiation, rarely even the 2nd or 3 strongest radiation in the mental layer of the aura in my sensing so far.  Then there is the question of how clear, how bright and radiant, how much harmony is there in the overall aura?

 If i had to take a guess, and to say what percentage applies to true "indigo" types, as related more specifically to their auras, i would have to say that from about age 30 to 10, it's probably closer to 7 to 10 percent who have such predominant frequency radiations in their aura.  So, indigo as a predominant frequency radiation is still somewhat rare, though growing more and more common.  

 I would say that by and around 2100 or so, such collectively awakened, active, and balanced 6th centers will be closer to those percentages that that lady is proclaiming about our present.  

  When deeper blues, indigos, certain shades of purple, golden yellows, and especially true violet, golden, golden white, and pure white light emanations become very common and predominant in the mental layers of people's auras, predominantly and collectively speaking, then will humanity will be seen to be much, much more spiritually in tune than we are now.  The colors are only reflectors of the inner state.  

 But this is more like hundreds of years off, as judging from a more linear time perspective.  I suppose it's only natural that some parents open to this stuff, want to believe that there child is an indigo, or otherwise highly advanced child, and not just lacking discipline and structure in their lives, balanced and healthy diets, harmonious and loving environments, etc.

 At the same time, it's probably the parents, and especially the moms, who are more open to this kind of stuff, who would be more likely to have or attract a more developed personality.   Or especially those who live very clean and service oriented lives, with a good balance between the physical, mental, and spiritual aspects of life.  

 Someone like Mozart (somewhat of an extreme example though), was more of a true indigo type, and when doing his astro chart and tuning into him, i picked up a lot of indigo, pastel blue, violet-purple, lavender, golden yellow type shades, and yet he certainly had his issues, his imbalances, and wasn't completely spiritual by any means.  

 His astro chart, not surprisingly then reflects this probability and innate potential.  Strong Uranus, especially Neptune (i believe it was Rising, and that he did not have Virgo rising) and Jupiter energies and strong emphasis on the latter 3 signs for example.

Albert, I would not label myself 'Indigo' or any other popular term. I believe my abilities are the after effects of my NDEs including spontaneous kundalini.

I'm skeptical about much of what is said regarding indigo, crystal children, etc., but research does show that kids are being born with higher IQs and other abilities such as healing, however these kids may or may not have blue/indigo auras. Everyone has many various colors in their aura and these colors change for many reasons depending of clarity of thought and emotion, etc.

Love, Kathy

I've had a problem with the whole "Indigo Children" thing for years...in part because the first time I read anything about them, (maybe that first book that someone mentioned above), she's saying they're older, advanced souls, and at the same time going on about how they can't fit in, won't  co-operate, etc.

I'm thinking that an advanced soul would have the smarts to not be difficult for difficult's sake...the whole thing sounded way too much like apologetics for spoiled brats.  Feeling different, having limited patience with silly social mores is one thing, but not being able to just shrug it off and deal until they're older doesn't sound very advanced to me.  

I suspect that there are more advanced souls coming around more often these days - I just don't think that the kind of behavior often described has anything to do with them.

 Bout auras in general.   Some people say that auras and the colors in same, tend to change a lot.   That's true, but only partially so, and most pertains to the "emotional" layer of the aura, which well corresponds to our emotions, our temporary and fleeting moods, our reactions, etc.  
The "mental" layer seems to be a lot more stable in nature on average.  This corresponds to our deeper character traits and tendencies, to more long term growth or retarding patterns in same.  
In my experience, the colors in this layer can definitely change, but oft major belief system changes, major lifestyle, character, and ideals have to change first, and for a lot of people this oft takes months and especially years.  

 An example, a good friend of mine.  I noticed she was becoming more and more open and accepting of nonphysical reality and princples.   She had been going through a lot of major personal changes as well, seemed to be growing emotionally and mentally as a person.  All in all, she just seemed more open and clear.     She felt more blue to me.

 I had remembered that her favorite color was green (mentioned years before), but i decided to ask her later on what her favorite color was.   She said, for a very long time it was green, but i'm starting to like more blue shades more and more.  

  This was indicative of the mental layer of her aura, and upper emotional part shading into the mental layer, changing more and more from a greenish tint to a more blue tint.  

This started to happen after major life changes which included major belief system changes.  
Interestingly, from an astro perspective, she had always seemed quite a bit Saturnian to me, kind of security oriented, more material in perceptions and beliefs, cared a bit about what others thought of her and cared about the mainstream accepted paradigms, more of an average "scientist" type.    

After awhile, she started to seem more "Uranian" in tendency, more curious about unexplained phenomena, less concerned with what society and others thought of her or things in general, more psychically sensitive, and yet a bit more moody probably because of the greater openness.  

 These colors reflect these planets fairly well, respectively speaking.   Aura changes in the mental layer of the aura oft correlate fairly well with major planetary transits and progressions in the astro charts.  In her example, sure enough she was experiencing some major Uranian transits around that time i started to notice changes in both her outer life (this more so before) and in her vibe (more so after).  This was a process, which was spanning months and years.  

 Such changes can happen more deeply, more quickly, but that seems to be a more rare experience speaking on average.    I would imagine that certain things, like what Bruce calls a major belief system crash, a NDE, or something similar could really speed up the process.  Major civilization changes could also speed up the process, for a greater amount and percentage of people.   ;)

 

Cricket wrote on Jan 25^th, 2008 at 10:24am:

I've had a problem with the whole "Indigo Children" thing for years...in part because the first time I read anything about them, (maybe that first book that someone mentioned above), she's saying they're older, advanced souls, and at the same time going on about how they can't fit in, won't  co-operate, etc. I'm thinking that an advanced soul would have the smarts to not be difficult for difficult's sake...the whole thing sounded way too much like apologetics for spoiled brats.  Feeling different, having limited patience with silly social mores is one thing, but not being able to just shrug it off and deal until they're older doesn't sound very advanced to me.   I suspect that there are more advanced souls coming around more often these days - I just don't think that the kind of behavior often described has anything to do with them.

 I kind of agree, but at the same time i'm hestistant to put it into a very cut and dried categorizing.   There seems to be a lot of variables to take into account here.  

 Btw, it's kind of interesting for those with some kind of astrological background or interest, but a lot of the classic "indigo" traits, correspond pretty strongly with Uranus and with those with strong Uranian indications in particular.  

 Uranus is more than a bit of a rebel, and can seem even a bit bratty at times, because of its stubbornness and self will, but since its vibrationally coming after Saturn which is entranched in the mainstream and in materialism, Uranus is a very necessary stage, a stage of shaking things up, of breaking down old outdated forms in order for new growth to be properly kindled.  

When Uranus was discovered, it paralleled a lot of major changes and upheavals in the world...a little taste of the Aquarius Age later to come.  

 So, Uranians can sometimes seem destructive, but they really desire to change things for the better so that all will benefit--they tend to be born socialists yet with a strong belief in and advocation of individualism.  A higher or more positive Uranian, doesn't desire change and destructuring for the sake of change and destructing, but for a higher, more positive, and more collecitve goal.  It's just that they need to keep things in perspective, and keep a balance to them and their tendencies, because they can be fairly extreme at times.  

 Aquarius on the other hand, i would say is a more true Indigo type frequency range potential, because to me, while Uranus vibes somewhat with Aquarius (said to be one of the rulers of same), Aquarius to me is a slightly faster vibrating, more balanced, and more complex expression.  

 So, espeically folks with both strong Uranus and Aquarius energies at the same time, will seem to fit the classic "indigo" type descriptions.   And like i said, they can appear very self willed and stubborn at times, but they do listen to a higher reasoning and to love.    

I also find difficulty understanding why Indigo children would have a hard time fitting in, if as Nancy Ann Tappe suggests, most other children are also Indigo. What's the story, Indigos don't get along with Indigos? And who are all of the children who do fit in with each other, if there aren't enough non-indigos around to fit in with each other?

Some of the Indigo sites I've seen (I haven't looked at them in a while) seemed like a means for people to make money off of people who want to believe that their children are more "special" than other children.  I believe that all children are special and should be loved completely, without their having to be a great athlete, child beauty contest winner, "Indigo."

If a person is in fact an advanced incarnation, I believe it is far better for such a person to find this out on his or her own through spiritual means that can't be refuted, rather than being told by his or her parents that he or she is one, or to go through somebody's checklist and determine things that way. Sometimes we find what our illusions try to find, rather than what is true.

Kathy:

I didn't know that you had NDEs. Care to share? :)



Lights of Love wrote on Jan 25^th, 2008 at 9:05am:

Albert, I would not label myself 'Indigo' or any other popular term. I believe my abilities are the after effects of my NDEs including spontaneous kundalini. I'm skeptical about much of what is said regarding indigo, crystal children, etc., but research does show that kids are being born with higher IQs and other abilities such as healing, however these kids may or may not have blue/indigo auras. Everyone has many various colors in their aura and these colors change for many reasons depending of clarity of thought and emotion, etc. Love, Kathy

Boriska – the Person from Mars

This just in on Project Camelot.

This long and fascinating article was written by the respected Russian writer Gennady Belimov, a University Professor and researcher who was present at the camp where Boriska first started to speak of his experiences several years ago.

It has never before been available in English. The translation is currently 50% complete and we hope to post the entire article within a few days.

Link: http://projectcamelot.org/indigo_boy_from_mars.html

Video Interview: http://projectcamelot.org/boriska.html

recoverer wrote on Jan 25^th, 2008 at 3:05pm:

Kathy: I didn't know that you had NDEs. Care to share? :) Lights of Love wrote on Jan 25th, 2008 at 9:05am: Albert, I would not label myself 'Indigo' or any other popular term. I believe my abilities are the after effects of my NDEs including spontaneous kundalini. I'm skeptical about much of what is said regarding indigo, crystal children, etc., but research does show that kids are being born with higher IQs and other abilities such as healing, however these kids may or may not have blue/indigo auras. Everyone has many various colors in their aura and these colors change for many reasons depending of clarity of thought and emotion, etc. Love, Kathy

Albert, I have shared. You’ve probably forgotten or missed the posts. Well, here it is again in a nutshell.

The first one at age 7 when I had scarlet fever, mumps and measles all at the same time. Doctors made house calls in those days and mine came to visit me twice a day to pump me full of penicillin. The experience itself is where I found myself out of body and in a womb of purplish blackness. I could see all around me, above and below me. On the outer edges of the darkness I was surrounded with several pairs of eyes that were watching me. The darkness (dark light) felt warm and comforting. The eyes terrified me.  In my child mind I didn’t know who these beings were.

The next one was when I drove my car through another car like it was Jell-O. I was 18 and driving way too fast down the highway when an older couple pulled right out in front of me. Somehow everything changed to white light and the molecular structures of cars and bodies was changed and I passed right through them. I could feel substance similar to running your finger through Jell-O. My car turned the corner and stopped. (I wasn’t driving and I don’t know who was.) I sat there trembling uncontrollably and still surrounded with white light for a few minutes. I felt completely calm and serene in this silence. When my body stopped trembling I started my car and drove on to work. The light and calmness stayed with me for quite a long time as I recall. I thanked my guardian angel, but never spoke of the incident until many years later.

Kundalini became active in my early twenties. I had another powerful spiritual experience at age 27 where powerful energy came down into me through my crown. This is often referred to as baptism of the Holy Spirit. Interesting because I was reading the Bible at the time. As I read I felt chills run through me, then suddenly this wondrous and powerful energy and light descended down through me. Much later in my 40’s I figured out how to connect with the godhead using the central channel, which looks like a line of laser-like light that runs from about 3 ft. above our heads down through the center of the body and into the earth. In my understanding, this is what keeps us incarnate in a physical body.

At age 36 I experienced spontaneous kundalini that rose from the base of my spine and went through the crown, surrounding me in white light. Previous to this kundalini was active from heart – brow chakras. I never needed to meditate. I could be washing dishes or whatever and it would be active. I learned to meditate to control all of these experiences and the after effects like problems with electrical things and so much more. None of this was easy to integrate into my life until after the spontaneous kundalini. Somehow that had given me more of a direct communication with my higher self and this aided my understanding tremendously.

Love, Kathy

Hi Kathy. That's profound stuff, especially the car incident. The older couple must have been petrified too.

You know Ian I have often wondered what happened to that couple. I would imagine the same thing as what I experienced. That was nearly 40 years ago and I still remember the woman's face as she looked in my direction. The man driving probably never did see my car because I don't think he ever turned his head. It's funny, but I didn't see any fear in the woman's expression, nor was there time for me to experience fear. Not once did I feel any fear, even afterwards when my body was trembling. Just this unbelievable peace and calm.

My best explanation for what happened is that somehow the entire incident was brought into a higher frequency of vibration where matter is not as solidified. Looking back this incident was probably the first to convince me that it is easier to change our bodies and recreate them than what we think. If we create dis-ease, we can heal it. We truly are light beings.

btw I don't know what your healing purpose was but violet light in my experience helps to integrate the self into spirituality and can bring a sense of royalty and high respect. If the color tended toward lavender it usually brings a lighthearted attitude toward life. Lavender light also is used to purge invading micro-organisms.

Love, Kathy

I suppose Kathy that except for the fact that quite a lot seemed to happen to you too in the car incident that it would be tempting to suggest that maybe it was a 'ghost' (whatever that is) car that you hit. It's easy to theorise after the fact, but it would have been dead interesting to back up and try to stop them down the road to find out what they had to say.

Whatever it was that happened it's hard to think that it all happened in the physical. I wonder as in the case of my own experience if it was possibly the case that you somehow managed a sort of multi-frequency/multi-reality awareness - that somehow you were perceiving two or more realities at once?

On violet and lavender colours. Interesting that (a) they seem to be associated with healing the sort of medical and spiritual issues I was  working at the time, and (b) that I'd not a clue as to the significance of colours. Those sessions helped me a lot. What I saw was on the lighter end with a lot of pink and and blue in it rather than red.

I've been reading some of the stuff you and others posted Dood on indigo and other gifted children. It's all brand new to me, but much like what you guys have to say I'm not wholly convinced. I can on the one hand recognise a lot of what is said about recent kids including in my own two and their friends who demonstrate a caring and sensitive socialisation that wasn't around much when I was that age. Justin's rather brave post about his own early life could almost be my own too.

But as a group (here) we're probably far more out on the artistic/creative/sensing/intuitive/caring wing anyway than the population as a whole.

While I wouldn't rule out that there's a more realised sort of kid coming through these days, or that there isn't something in the air helping to raise consciousness I wouldn't underestimate the effects of the much more caring upbringing a lot of kids have experienced since the 60s either. My generation (born mid 50s) had much of this tendency beaten out of them by the time they hit second level education.

My parent's generation (born early 1900s) were brought up in a Victorian ethos - almost no individuality was tolerated then and they were inculcated with a 'gotta be hard to get ahead' value system which regarded the sort of caring behaviours now coming to the fore as weakness. This line of course created two world wars and enslaved millions...

I say this because there's actually little or nothing in the accounts of the characteristics of these children that Buddhism would not regard as entirely inherent in the human being. The problem is just that family and societal conditioning has always knocked most of it out of us in previous generations. The contradiction of having to re-learn what we naturally knew as children in later life is often talked of in spiritual circles.

It would also suggest that while gifted (realised, or more realised) children do have precocious abilities that they can in fact have a very difficult time in the hands of domineering and insensitive parents or others with a more selfish and disciplinarian take on things - because of the very fundamental conflict this produces between their heart feelings and the direction they are being driven.

This is a scene I can speak of from personal experience....

Quote:

My parent's generation (born early 1900s) were brought up in a Victorian ethos - almost no individuality was tolerated then and they were inculcated with a 'gotta be hard to get ahead' value system which regarded the sort of caring behaviours now coming to the fore as weakness. This line of course created two world wars and enslaved millions...

Did they say things like "Children are to be seen and not heard..."? :) Sorry could not resist.  My Mom use to say that.

I tell ya I feel regret that I didn't pay more attention to my children when they were younger. (under 5)
Our son was very bright at a young age. I am not implying he is an Indigo either.
However, he knew all the letters of the alphabit at 18 months and could pronouce them.  Some letters only WE knew what he meant though.
Like the letter 'W'.  He use to say something like "Diver" for W.
At 2.5-3 years old he could read on a first grade basis. He did most of this on his own.
We read to him and gave him books but, he did most of the work.
He also had a 'thing' for maps. He loved to figure out where everything was and knew all the States, Capitals, and Regions, and Capitals of other countries too.  By 4-5 years of age.

He was just a fun kid but, I was not so bright.  I wish I knew what I know now, back then. I could have quized him on spiritual things.
Anyways he is 23 years old now. Still, quite bright. He has always been polite and well mannered.

:) More likely Dood I'd have got a whack in the earhole or been threatened with something nasty.

I'd have to say too that I wish I was far more awake as my kids were growing up. I was in serious trouble with low thyroid and chronic fatigue with a few years of their birth, and it was really only from there that I started to work the spiritual path and waken up...

 Hi there Ian, thanks for the whole brave post on my part thing you said, but i don't know if i would ascribe such a noble description as that.  

 I'm still very much "human" and occasionally have my more overtly self focussed and/or egotistical moments, and that was one of them (though its not so black and white as that).   In any case, i'm not going to pretend to be a completely impersonal "spiritula master" or realized Guru type, when i know i'm not.  
I've interacted with some folks here and there in the spiritual arenas over the years, who seemed to believe this about themselves, and it felt like a lot of repression and suppression was going on.   One thing, due to karma and other reasons, i don't want to be, is overly repressed due to a deeper and more unconscious ego need to pretend to be more spiritually advanced than i really am.  I am, what i am, warts, ego, and all.  

In any case, i figure that probably quite a few folks here could relate to a lot of what i talked about as regards my childhood, etc.  And i'm not surprised you do as well.  

 Hah, maybe Bruce here was an "indigo" kid.  Reason why i say this, is i seem to remember in his first or 2nd book, someone (a trainer?) at TMI mentioning his very bright, beautiful, radiant, and very strongly bluish colored aura.  

Thank you for sharing Kathy. I read the k experience before, but not the other experiences.  Your experiences show how the spirit World is here to help us.

I believe it is possible that an actual physical event took place, when the accident you described took place.  Perhaps this physical World isn't as limited as we think. If reality starts from the spiritual levels, perhaps the physical level is subordinate. This being the case, beings at a higher level might be capable of effecting things at the lower slower vibrating physical level.

You’re welcome Albert. Yes, it was an actual physical event and there’s no doubt in my mind that the spiritual creates the physical. The physical is like an extension of the spiritual. There is no real separation. It is like a continuum. The physical exists fully within the spiritual at all times. We think the spiritual and physical are opposites, but in reality they are united as one.

People, including myself at times, have trouble understanding that because the human condition is grounded in a dual belief system that depends on opposites and judgment. For example, the concept of life could not exist if it wasn’t for the concept of death. Nor could we believe in good without believing in evil, and so on. Nearly everything in our dual belief system contains opposing beliefs, assumptions and judgments. As long as we insist on being stuck in opposition and judgment, we will remain stuck. To get unstuck, we’d need to stop judging and live a life of unity. Hmmm… can we do that?

I’m certainly not there yet, but I think we can if we simply were to change our thoughts and allow our life to be lived in oneness. One way is to do that is to understand all opposites as pieces of the whole. In order to judge some things as good depends on us identifying other things as bad and vice versa. This is true for everything we label and define in our material world. In order for something to be considered beautiful depends on something identified as being ugly, but both are pieces of the whole.

When Bob Monroe said there is no good, there is no evil, I believe what he meant is that both good and evil are pieces of a paradoxical unity where he perceived both as being contained in the perfection of oneness. The perfect oneness coexists within the apparent duality and opposites are merely judgments made by us as we have come to define the physical world.

We have an incredibly strong tendency to compartmentalize every thought we have as good or bad, right or wrong, beautiful or ugly and so on. Yet isn’t this apparent duality only a mind game we play with ourselves? We believe that we can’t act without judgment, but I don’t think that’s true.

And I’m really getting off the topic of this thread so I’ll stop here. But I do believe that this subject is worth giving a lot of thought to.

Love, Kathy

:) Think I'd have to agree Kathy. That's you can't argue where the spiritual path is leading - away from self....

 I use to believe in non duality, and that to become unlimited i had to perceive and live in a non dual manner.  
But this, even the above statement contains polarity within it and eventually i came to this understanding about the whole issue.  
There are two, ever interconnecting, eternal, and Universal polarities in this Universe's reality.   They are different, and their co-existing simultaneous truths seem paradoxical.  

 Relating this to a more human level, you could call them "left brain hemisphere" and "right brain hemisphere".   They are within a Whole.  
Left brain perceives and acts upon the differences in creation and the Total/Whole Self, it's highest function is to discriminate, to see and understand the differences between that which is Creative and that which is unCreative.     In the long run, there is only Creative, but because of Freewill there is the temporal illusion and manifestation of the unCreative.  

   The Right brain aspect of the Whole, perceives the Whole, the complete continuum, sees in a sense in only One color.    It's very perception and feeling oriented, its absorbing, and non discriminating in essence.  You can't discriminate if you only see one color.  

  This is the aspect and experience of the Creator, before it moved and became a true Creator.  
When it became a Creator, and moved, vibrated, then the left brain (symbolically speaking) came into play.   There were seen to be differences and uniqueness in Creation, in the Whole.  

 Nonduality, is in some ways, a very dualistic belief and way of perceiving, because it doesn't take into account, doesn't' balance and merge the two, different but fundamental truths, ways of being and perceiving.  
Nonduality is just as dualistic as the intellect is, except that its a primarily right brained expression, whereas intellect and the 3rd Center out of balance with the Whole, is more purely left brain oriented.   I've oft noticed that people with a very strong Neptune and Feminine energy, tend strongly towards beliefs in, perceptions of, and places on a pedestal, nonduality.

 
 How do we then merge these seeming paradoxical realities, ways of being, and perceiving?    By concentrating on, living, and being that which is Creative in its very essence, but with a more passive awareness of that which is unCreative in its movements, and discriminating the differences between that which is Creative and unCreative.  

 No one can not perceive that which is unLight in its movements, but we can learn to not judge it.  Judgement creates and facilitates separation.    Pure perception and discrimination allows for the differences within the Whole to be seen, and thus when it comes to the differences between Creative and unCreative to be better avoided when it comes to self and its freewill and choosing.

 The problem comes in concentrating on the differences within the Whole, and i believe this is how the physical came to be perceived collectively in the way it is by a percentage of consciousnesses.    
The perception and experience of "physical" then became manifested by a concentrated externalization of this collective focus on differences, which then got magnified into very separatist ways of both being and perceiving.  Differences turned into separation somehow, and this was not what the Creator actually created.  So, we need to focus more on the innate similarities, the sameness, the unity in order to facilitate that perfect balance or merged state again.    

 Yet, we can go overboard to the other polarity, we can become imbalanced towards the Right brain and Sameness/Oneness/one color too.    This i believe is where "nonduality" concepts come from.  

 Cultures that were more balanced, or over balanced to the introverted (some of the Eastern countries and cultures were/are) and people who are more balanced or imbalanced towards the introverted, tend to focus more on the latter, sometimes at the expense of the former fundamental and eternal truth.   It's funny how some cultures and folks want to cut the left brain out of existence, and other cultures and folks want to cut out the right brain out of existence.

 Astrologically, Neptune is the energy and archetype most relating to the nonduality imbalance, it is almost pure feminine polarity balance, almost pure right brain concentration, almost pure feeling, etc.    Those with it very powerful and highlighted in their charts, tend, i've notice to lean more to such nondualistic beliefs and perceptions, more so than with any other highlighted astrological indication.    It becomes especially strong and consistent when the other feminine planets like the Moon, and Venus also come strongly into play at the same time.  

  So, i would say its a little more complex than saying that one shouldn't perceive the differences between an energy or expression that one might label as good (Creative) and bad (unCreative).   In fact, that ability to discriminate is very important to anyone and especially those on a spiritual path.   But again, its more balancing and healing to learn how to concentrate on that which is Creative, while being more passively aware of that which is unCreative.  

 Nature abhors a vacuum, because there is really no such condition.  

Monroe and his understanding of the complete picture of Reality, needs to be taken with a grain of salt, because he himself, within his own very forces was still imbalanced between the Yin and Yang, and so he couldn't and didn't perceive perfectly.   He didn't perceive perfectly and completely, because he didn't completely live that which is Creative in its essence and movement.  

  Sure, he got a message from or communicated with some completed consciousnesses, but did he understand or translate it perfectly and completely?  And even if he did, does our language allow for a perfect/complete transmission of the pure truths and reality?  

 Always, always, always consider the source and its overall development and balance before internalizing their truth as a belief system.



   

Kathy:

I see what you're saying. I agree that if we want to experience oneness, we have to be willing to see that even that which appears in a negative way for a while, is a part of self. I also understand how in the end, everything works out perfectly. This is what my night in heaven experience showed me, and others have found the same.

However, this doesn't mean that we don't have to strive in order to reach this perfected end. It is true that Robert Monroe wrote that there is no evil, but he also wrote about unfriendly influences that exist. His guides told him that they exist.  His guides said that they did what they could to keep him away from such beings, because they evolved differently than us, and things didn't work out well when contact was made with them. They also told him that there are unfriendly beings who have experience being human. These beings aren't smarter than us, but they have a lot of experience, and know how to influence people.  He was told to use his sensors in a wise way so he wouldn't make contact with them. He was told that he could derive strength from the fact that he is connected to his I-there, and his I-there is connected to many other I-theres.

Therefore, until things reach the point where unfriendly beings choose to go to the light, we can't really say there isn't anything to concern ourselves about. If somebody, perhaps somebody like Jane Roberts, uses her sensors in an unwise way, and allows a being named Seth to use her to say things such as Jesus Christ wasn't crucified and was just telling a joke when he said to love your neighbor as yourself, perhaps some of us should act as if things aren't perfect, and do what needs to be done, even if people believe that we are overly negative.

Or in other words, I bet you there are a lot of light beings who haven't turned a blind eye to the fact that unfriendly beings do exist.

And ditto to what Justin wrote.







Lights of Love wrote on Jan 30^th, 2008 at 10:49am:

You’re welcome Albert. Yes, it was an actual physical event and there’s no doubt in my mind that the spiritual creates the physical. The physical is like an extension of the spiritual. There is no real separation. It is like a continuum. The physical exists fully within the spiritual at all times. We think the spiritual and physical are opposites, but in reality they are united as one. People, including myself at times, have trouble understanding that because the human condition is grounded in a dual belief system that depends on opposites and judgment. For example, the concept of life could not exist if it wasn’t for the concept of death. Nor could we believe in good without believing in evil, and so on. Nearly everything in our dual belief system contains opposing beliefs, assumptions and judgments. As long as we insist on being stuck in opposition and judgment, we will remain stuck. To get unstuck, we’d need to stop judging and live a life of unity. Hmmm… can we do that? I’m certainly not there yet, but I think we can if we simply were to change our thoughts and allow our life to be lived in oneness. One way is to do that is to understand all opposites as pieces of the whole. In order to judge some things as good depends on us identifying other things as bad and vice versa. This is true for everything we label and define in our material world. In order for something to be considered beautiful depends on something identified as being ugly, but both are pieces of the whole. When Bob Monroe said there is no good, there is no evil, I believe what he meant is that both good and evil are pieces of a paradoxical unity where he perceived both as being contained in the perfection of oneness. The perfect oneness coexists within the apparent duality and opposites are merely judgments made by us as we have come to define the physical world. We have an incredibly strong tendency to compartmentalize every thought we have as good or bad, right or wrong, beautiful or ugly and so on. Yet isn’t this apparent duality only a mind game we play with ourselves? We believe that we can’t act without judgment, but I don’t think that’s true. And I’m really getting off the topic of this thread so I’ll stop here. But I do believe that this subject is worth giving a lot of thought to. Love, Kathy

Here are a few more thoughts relating to unfriendly influences, one of which is Robert Monroe related.

Robert Monroe had an explorers group, and Rosalind Mcknight was one of the most prominent members. During her sessions with Robert, they were told that there are unfriendly alien influences.

Howard Storm found the same during his NDE. He found that there are evil alien influences.

Both Rosalind's guide and Howard Storm wrote that there are light beings who look out for us, and make certain that these unfriendly influences don't get to us. HOWEVER, both of them also seemed to indicate that there is the issue of free will. Therefore, if some of us either purposely or unwisely (Jane Roberts?) choose to hook up with such influences, because of free will we are allowed to do so.

If people "choose" to listen to people who have hooked up to such a source, partly because they have a mindset that it is unhip and unloving to question things, perhaps they too will be misled.

Of course people can choose to sweep under the carpet what was reaveled to Robert Monroe, Rosalind Mcknight and Howard Storm.

Regarding the crucifixion issue, both Rosalind Mcknight and Howard Storm were infomed by spirit beings (Howard was informed by Jesus), that Jesus was in fact crucified. What do sources such as Seth, Elias, Matthew's mother and Sylvia Browne have up their sleeves, when they state that he wasn't crucified, with stories that contradict each other and themselves?

Hmmm... now this thread is really getting off the topic of Indigo Children.

I think you both are reading into my post a lot more than what I was trying to say.  Actually I just read what Dave wrote on the 'Touchy Subject' thread.  Perhaps Dave's words are more to the point I was trying to make.  Thanks Dave!  ;)


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First - the basic human condition- In general: We are in the position we are in because we have chosen to be here. If we knew better, we'd do better. In specific: We're all struggling like the dickens to get out of where we are and go to a better place. If we knew one, we'd go there. Those who release the three basic negative urges, represented in Tibetan thangkas as the snake, rooster and pig, hatred, pride and greed, then those people cease to have active involvement with events caused by those three urges.   Getting rid of those basic negative urges allows us to stop creating negative karma, because these urges represent the three antitheses to the three existential aspects of reality: energetic process, holomorphic unity, and transcendental awareness. (Note that these are the same terms we encounter in physical models of reality - process, structure and metric relations.)   To cling to a nationality, to the noble fight for Arab self-government against King Hussein or the Ottomans, or the USA, or to cling to any other goal that seems important enough to fight for is an error. It is an error because it implies that society can solve problems of unrest through force.   However, to cling to the noble awareness that by abandonment of divisive tendencies, no matter how seductive, and to develop a lifestyle that is important enough to live for will resolve errors, because it extricates us from social maladaptions. Society has great value, but only when we support and encourage those aspects that are valuable. If we are willing to take an oppositional stance at any level, we entangle ourselves in the essence of the problem. This is because we cannot involve with anything without contacting it in some manner, and to contact it establishes an interface - like when a curious finger touches hot water - and that interface exerts negative influences on us - the finger feels heat -  so that if we do anything other than withdraw, we will get involved in emotional activities that are essentially painful. - the finger that fails to withdraw will get burned. The way to create peace and harmony is outside society. It lies solely in the hearts of folks like you and me. Those who have only learned part of this lesson live in places in which others with the same degree of understanding also live. For example, Theravedans live in large societies throughout the East. Mahayanists live in smaller societies in more isolated groups. Militant Christians live in a large conglomerate spreading across North America. Militant Arabs live in the Middle East where their societies have been oppressed for the last 1200 years. Zionists live in a tiny conclave at the end of the Mediterranean due to other oppressions. Hindus occupy the Indian subcontinent, along with similar religious believers such as Jains. All these groups define themselves as "not the same as our neighbors" for which reason they expect special considerations. It is the distinction that leads to downfall. Once we set up distinctions, we tend to emphasize them and increase our sense of self through enhanced differentiation. That is an error. Conversely, those groups that identify themselves as inclusive of their neighbors have a tendency to not be clearly visible. One example is the cluster of interested participants at this forum. By not differentiating, we do not feel anger or hatred, but we replace it with love. We do not feel alienated and rejected in a competitive and fearful world, but instead we feel comradship and unity with others. We do not feel that we are unique in our isolated little corner of the world, but rather we understand the universality and transcendence of our path that leads from everywhere to a higher level of everywhere. We do not feel disgust and resistance to the work of expressing positive values, but we embrace the opportunity because, among other things, it's fun.   Given these ideas, you can easily see that the American troops who choose to enlist in the war are those who feel that peace is attainable through war. Those who fight them are similarly certain that by fighting and making war it will be possible to impose peace. Both sides have chosen their world, and both suffer - albeit cooperatively. An example of karma - the Israeli's were previously under a British Mandate. They objected to this. The resorted to terrorism and planted a number of bombs in the King David Hotel where the British seat of government was lodged. They blew up the hotel, killed lots of people, and also got the British to leave. But the Palestinians saw how effective this was so they copied their esteemed neighbors, and are still doing it, with suicide bombers and by shooting rockets, Neither side is going to win. Both sides will lose. They were individually better off under the British rule, although politically disenfranchised. They gave up personal peace in favor of social change through strife, a choice. The way out of this is to stop engaging in negative activities. Like holding a tiger's tail, this has to be done with great care and only by degrees that allow everything to remain stable. Those who stop engaging in negative activities stop creating negative karma and cease to have negative experiences, even though surrounded by all manner of ungodly chaos. The state of freedom from negative activities is called "satchitananda" by Buddhists and Hindus, and is the basic state of mature participation in the world.  It is available to everyone, and, in fact, most of the people on this forum live in this state to a very large degree.   These ideas are radically unpopular in many circles. They initially were promulgated by the beatnicks and hippies from the late '40s through the '70s. LSD emphasized the truth of these ideas (usually by sending those who favored negativity to a hellish experience)  and prompted a strong counter-culture that disowned competitive and violent social values and norms and began to replace them with more honest values. The concept "What goes around comes around" entered our society in the '60s. However, even though these are new values to us, there are many small communities throughout the world that live by pro-active positive values as opposed to negatve ones. In essence, these ideas are the source of all revolutions. Civil warfare and the reign of terror that follows it are the reasons that revolutions don't work. Progress only occurs in the aftermath when people realize collectively how terrible things were, and how stupid it was to cause them to be terrible, and how much better to cooperate and create, support and understand one another. dave Back to top

Kathy:

I wasn't certain where you were coming from. Perhaps I should of said so. Nevertheless, some people believe I have some kind of axe to grind, rather than something purposeful to say, so I took the opportunity to say things such as despite Robert Monroe's statement of there being no evil, unfriendly forces do exist and need to be contended with.

Regarding the framework Dave spoke of, I agree that we need to get away from demonizing entire groups of people. My understanding is that a lot of American troops have chosen to get themselves involved with Iraq, because they have demonized their enemies. Their enemy has done the same thing.

I don't believe that Jesus came here to tell people to demonize and kill people, despite what some fundamentalists believe. Unlike Seth, I believe that he actually did come here to tell people to love their neighbor as their self. Regarding how this relates to unfriendly alien influences,  it is interesting that light beings allow them to continue to exist. I believe this is because light beings don't want to destroy such influences, they want to help them to move back in the direction of the light.  When people do something with the hope of conteracting the negative influence of unfriendly beings, perhaps they help the light negate their negative activity, or at least ways minimalize it.

 Hi Kathy, you had brought up some very broad and far reaching issues on this thread, and so i addressed some of those issues, which i believe are relatively important to get a more holistic understanding of.

  I read the quote by Dave you shared.  I agreed with and liked much of it, yet to some extent, i was seeing a similar thing that i was trying to address before hand and to begin with.   Which is the labeling of differences/uniqueness and of perceiving those to be somehow non constructive in nature, and Oneness/sameness to be the end all and only that which is constructive.  

 For awhile, i looked at it in a very similar way.   But, i've come to understand that the differences and unqiueness in Creation are just as sacred as the Oneness/sameness aspect, it's just that in this dimension too much focus on the former, without ideals and focus on the latter, can lead to separatist actions, ways of being and perceiving, etc.  

 But, it's not that differences/unqiueness=bad in and of itself, it's the imbalance and over concentration of same, for lack of the Oneness/sameness, which is what causes so many issues within our selves, within our cultures, and within the whole World (and in other worlds too, though some worlds are overly focussed on Oneness/sameness believe it or not, not enough individualization).  

  In a way, i see it almost as some people trying to cut out the left brain, because they consider its role and function to be non constructive.  

 I can understand this extremity, because in our Western culture (which seems ever to be taking over the world), the left brain aspect of us, has been over concentrated on, over idealized, forced on others, and over worshiped oft at the expense of the Heart-Right brain aspects.  

  So, sometimes to facilitate a balance for the long term, we have to over concentrate for awhile, on the Right brain-Heart aspect.  But too often, this then becomes our ultimate truth and we start shaping our perceptions according to our beliefs.    

 What i like and respect about Bob Monroe is that he seemed to understand this whole polarization thing fairly well, and even developed technology to help facilitate and foster at least a mental merging of these two different but completely connected states--i.e. Hemi-Sync., a state wherein the left and right brain hemispheres completely work together, balance and thus "merge" and the Whole become more than the sum of two parts.    

 Have you used Hemi-Sync?    I've found it to be a good outer tool, to help one to get more into the space of merging the thinking and feeling aspects of self.    It has helped me to more deeply realize the schism that so many have between these flows within self, the imbalance, and how often what polarity we are more innately balanced too, we tend to idealize at the detriment or expense of the other--based on like attracts, likes, perceives and begets like.   I see it so often, even with many spiritually developed folks, that i feel its a pretty important issue to get clearly across.  

 So again, one could say that our Left brain aspect=innate differences/Uniqueness and Right brain aspect=Oneness/sameness, and when we merge these, then do we experience full Wholeness, completion, true and transcendent reality, etc.     And the more we merge these within self, the more we can perceive and act/be from that space.    This needless to say, seems to be rather hard to fully and completely accomplish while in physical, for whatever reasons, but we are coming to cycles of great facilitation in that regard.  

I don’t have enough time to respond you everything you guys have said, but there’s not much I would disagree with in appropriate context. (Please excuse my haste. I’m running late this morning.)

Actually I didn’t bring up any broad issues in my mind.  You both read into my post more than what is there and apparently went off on your own. Essentially my point is that we have strong belief in duality, yet non-duality is also an aspect of who we really are. The non-dual aspect is God and the dual aspect is the world. Fuse both these dichotomies and you get perfect oneness or unity. Partake in opposition by making assumptions and judgments and you get stuck, ‘entangled’ to quote Dave. When we can understand this and act accordingly, we disentangle ourselves from events that are seemingly impossible… i.e. my car experience being both physical/spiritual.

This is also true in everything we understand as opposites. Fuse the dichotomies of perceived opposites and you get effortless living without attachment. I don’t think either one of you disagrees with this, but if you need me to explain this better, let me know and I’ll try to do that. Words never seem to be enough when I try to explain something that I understand ineffably.

J, yes Bob and hemi sync helped me learn to control and better integrate the aftereffects of my experiences back in the mid 80’s. I have a lot of respect for him personally and his work.

K

Hi Kathy. What's interesting about oneness vs. duality is that as Justin said it's neither. It's a continuum. All possibilities seem to be simultaneously true.

An interesting illustration of this is the way in Buddhism that many perspectives are taught differently according to the level of the view. At the basic C1 time/space Hinayana level you can for example make a perfectly logical explanation using conventional logic to show why the idea of an independently existing independent self is 'empty' or actually not true.

You can then go on to show by the same means that compassion towards others is the natural consequence of this - the Mahayana view.

Yet when one starts to work with higher states of consciousness that in essence are less bound up by ego we connect with both of these perspectives as experiential realities.

Yet in the more realised person both means of sensing (the head and the heart you could say) and knowing blend seamlessly together, as does access to varying levels of consciousness - depending on circumstances. It's not like they flip a switch, go clunk and drop from one state to the other.

Not sure that I'm making a lot of sense, but I suppose it's another example of the old 'as above so below' saying....

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What's interesting about duality is that as Justin said it's neither oneness nor duality. It's a continuum. All possibilities are simultaneously true.

Yes this is essentially what I said in my original post. As I mentioned, I'm not in disagreement with what J and A said.

Ok, I gotta run out the door.

K

:) Bye!!