Something I thought might interest some of you guys, and maybe help move us back towards topics of practice and experience. I posted before about Tibetan Buddhist Chod practice in the context of Tibetan Yogi I met, and have been working with it lately to resolve some personal issues.

Buddhism says there is only one absolute mind, but when taken in by the delusion of a separately existing independent self impinged on by external realities (ego) we lose touch with this reality. We routinely conceive of physical external realities as being wholly separate from us - against which we have to fight or compete to get our share of the goodies. e.g. other people, families, companies, countries and so on.

Grasping (to avoid that we fear, and to get  what we want) is the price of believing that this imagined 'self' (the result of what's termed 'ignorance') is separate and can be destroyed. We do this by creating external entities to be desired (gods) or feared. (demons) Gods might include the search for fame, riches, a big house, a trophy wife or whatever. Demons might include illness, poverty, divorce, feared behaviours and so on.

Don't get hung up on the words gods and demons - it's a very different usage to Christianity. Call then heart felt fears and desires or something instead if you prefer.

In the Buddhist way of looking at this these gods and demons are bits of mind we've by our attitude to them given separate existence, or made into entities. These can in fact be self created entities, or much more powerful entities like the traditional Christian devil/independently existing evil created by the combined power of collective mind. ( ;) keeps it simple, and rolls it all into one - but it's fairly clear from this perspective why Buddhism is not keen on the idea of an independently existing devil - it's the best way imaginable to bring that particular reality into existence, especially if we're going to through our fear pour energy into it)

The problem is that these entities (both demons and gods) are (a) a part of ourselves if we are to realise as whole beings and (b) they start to draw energy from us or to cause other problems like dictating behaviours by virtue of their need to be sustained as separate entities.

Chod involves visualising the god or demon (giving it a form in our mind), engaging with it in meditation to ascertain what it's needs really are (usually a second or third level issue - an illness for example may manifest as a result of a need for life energy or in the case of cancers as an attempt by a separated part to survive by growing using this energy), then from a view outside of our body offering it our body and love (traditionally reduced to the form of a nectar that satisfies all needs) which it feeds on. This both satisfies its need, and reunites us with it.

The process is repeated, if necessary over years until the required result is obtained. Multiple topics may be addressed, although insight will sometimes show that they are aspects of the same core issue.

The insight that enabled us to visualise the entity and to ascertain its needs amounts to our using insight meditation (vipassana) to get in contact with deeper aspects of mind so that we realise what the problem is - so that going forward  we can draw on this information to help us deal better with it in future.

An example of  a demon might be a fear of following our heart/intuition, leading to a loss of motivation. Another demon might be the sense of victimhood, caused by a fear that this might happen but fed into becoming a life dominating monster by many years of pouring energy into it. A god might be a deeply felt hang up about needing a beautiful boy/girlfriend causing us to ignore the plainer man/lady who has the potential to make us very happy.

Chod can be done for a third party too once one has some idea of what the issue is (it is commonly done as a means of healing by Tibetan Yogis and Rinpoches) , but requires considerable skill to avoid the risk of taking on other's ills. A prerequisite is some degree of mental stability  - the result of meditation practice. We otherwise won't be able to stay on the subject well enough.

Chod-like practices exist in shamanic traditions all over the world it seems, and may make use of substances rather than meditative skills to help with insight. The traditional Tibetan version of Chod is pretty scarifying involving as it does skull cups, thigh bone trumpets and the like.

It can of course probably be cast in differing philosophical contexts depending on the tradition - it's ultimately about reuniting separated aspects of mind through love, (our society conditions us to fear and fight what are seen as external threats - thus pouring in ever more energy and worsening the separation) and using the wisdom and knowledge that enabled this to avoid the same mistake in future. There's parallels in here too with spiritual healing approached that I've been exposed to. (in respect of my thyroid cancer for example)

There have apparently been some pretty amazing outcomes with cancer and aids according to the lady below.

My experience so far is that it's effective - i can feel definite effects in respect of my own chosen issue. Which has turned out to link with my previous illness and some past life inputs in unexpected ways too.

A good simple source of guidance on Chod is a CD by a Buddhist nun named Tsultrim Allione titled 'Cutting Through Fear' from Sounds True. http://store.soundstrue.com/aw00461d.html

Greetings,

Vajra said:
"It can of course probably be cast in differing philosophical
contexts depending on the tradition - it's ultimately about
reuniting separated aspects of mind through love, (our society
conditions us to fear and fight what are seen as external threats
- thus pouring in ever more energy and worsening the separation)
and using the wisdom and knowledge that enabled this to avoid
the same mistake in future. There's parallels in here too with
spiritual healing approached that I've been exposed to".

Does that parallel what REI has been saying about Christian Science?

Bets

I found this partial clip of an article and sharing about "a smile."  :)

Love of Self. Without a connection to an unconditional acceptance of the larger Self, which connects us to All That Is, there will be limitations on the interplay between people. You cannot communicate intricacies about something you have contempt for – you can only denigrate it, which is to say offer reasons for not looking at it. With Love of Self, all communication is tinged with it, and the depth of interaction increases exponentially. It is said that Buddha's smile conveyed such detail about the nature of the universe that this was enough for some monks to reach higher understanding.

Thank you, Vajra. I enjoy reading you very much, as you have a pleasant way of clarifying these topics for us.

I think you have said so much, and very well, above. I would add that one positive attribute of certain kinds of guided meditations is that a person can narrow in on a particular area of difficulty and focus on that in a positive way, in a very deep way, and can address these "demons" within us, where they live. This can increase an individual's personal happiness levels immeasurably.

Self-talk....also, very important. We must listen to ourselves. When in "discomfort," examine the thought. It is in error. Of course, by this, I do not mean that we never suffer in "reality" -- I don't actually subscribe to that idea, as of yet. But, I do wholeheartedly believe that we often "choose" to suffer needlessly.

love, blink :)

I think conflict is what suffering is. the other day I was in conflict and I was watching my thoughts feed the conflict. it was like a long train going by  :-X I finally just said to self, what are u doing now? lol. I do this a lot like its normal or something.

Exactly, Alysia, so well said. It is exactly like that for us, and conflict is a very appropriate word, I think.

Perhaps we think we have to be having an emergency to use the handle on that train that allows us to slow down and look at where we are going. But we certainly are not "required" to be "having" an emergency.

We don't even have to get on the train, but once we are on it, well, that is another story... :)

love, blink :)

while I was reading Blink I just remembered she does some kind of counseling, then I thought amazing all we don't know about each other and still manage to have a conversation

Actually, I do not have those credentials, Alysia, although I am surrounded by social workers and social work students in my job, so I can say that I have come to certain conclusions by "osmosis" -- and, additionally, since so many others do also, I have the audacity to speak about them whether I am "qualified" to do so or not.

I will always validate what has worked for me in the past, and what appears to "do no harm," to my way of understanding that.

We all teach each other, and for that I am truly grateful.

And, it is true that we have amazing times here, and yet we rarely know about each other what our favorite colors might be, or what kinds of work each of us might do.

And, honestly, what could be better than hearing ourselves speak our hearts? No matter what we say.

I recently went to a couple of "workshops" -- small gatherings, really. They call it "The Joy Experience" and it is powerful. One learns to do meditations in small groups of varying sizes. These meditations are based on a simple practice of looking steadily, without looking away during the "experience," into another's eyes -- and, often, one person will be the focus. For each person, it is equally important to participate, and to also observe the others when not engaged in the "gazing," which rotates through each person in the group in a slow sequence.

What I mean by this is that one person might stand before the others, who sit in chairs surrounding him/her. That "standing" person will look into each of the other participant's eyes for as long as they choose, and may occasionally speak to one or another. The person standing might then be made the focus. The other participants might, in turn, choose one word in "response" to the "presence" of the one they are observing. It is kept positive in nature, by focus of will. The experience of "presence" is profound.

What I have discovered is that "simple" presence is remarkable. As it turns out, what we talk about is so much less important than whether we are truly present to another.

You certainly have this gift, Alysia, and I have no problem with saying it "out loud" because I think it is amazing to be able to do this with only the written word.

And so, we all have our gifts. The greatest gift is Self. It is what we give to each other, and what we have all along.

I will reference the link to the website of the originator of "The Joy Experience." It seems to be, at this point in time (for all but those who want a more intensive experience) to be a free, shared by "word of mouth" kind of group, for those who are ready to try something a little different...

http://www.speaknow.biz/pages/joyexperience.html (home page)

http://www.speaknow.biz/pages/freestuff.html (a few articles by the founder)

love, blink :)

Nice summary, Vajra, You've presented an angle on chod that had never come to my mind before. thanks
- dave

Vajra:

The first sentence touches on the issue of whether there is a such thing as a soul, I won't get into that again. :)  I do agree that we need to evolve to the point where we understand that we aren't seperate from anything else.

Regardless of the terminology that is used, I agree it is important to look at the aspects of mind that limit us. The more we get rid of hindering aspects, the more we'll be able to abide as the spirit beings we are.

I believe that such a practice doesn't need to be limited by our own resources. I believe our higher selves can get involved, and as is probably obvious by now, I think of higher self in a disk/oversoul way.  When it comes to who my spirit guidance is, I figure it is some mixture of God, Christ, higher self, and perhaps other members of higher self, when thought of in a disk way.  Such guidance doesn't find it necessary to identify itself each time I make contact with it. The way in which it communicates and the PUL feeling I get from it, is enough. Some unfriendly spirits that have dropped by felt differently.

One thing my guidance will do is bring aspects of myself into my awareness in various ways, so I can deal with them. Another thing it does is provide me with feedback as I meditate on an issue, either by showing me a symbolic visual image, creating a short waking dream, or sending me a feeling. It also looks after my energetic flow in a manner that is very specific to which blocks need to be broken. I've also found that sometimes the energy by where a block is will sometimes become active just by thinking about the issue that relates to it.

Here are some examples of experiences my guidance hasl shared with me while meditating, often while laying in bed awake:

1. I'm wondering what it's like to be a vast being. Suddenly I find myself floating up a hill towards gold light that can be seen at the crest. When I reach the crest I see an ocean. I jump into the ocean and feel myself expand within the ocean. The more I expand, the better I feel.
2. I'm wondering what it's like to have multiple perspectives. Suddenly I experience myself as a large light being who is aware of twelve different aspects of me at the same time. These aspects feel objective to me; therefore, I feel like a large light being who isn't defined in a specific way, yet I'm still me.
3. I'm trying to open up to love, get only so far, and suddenly I find myself at the back of a cargo plane that is ascending upwards with the back hatch open. I'm trying to disengage something that is stuck at the back of the airplane, so the plane will obtain enough velocity. I know that this stuck thing is a symbol for my lust. I know this because experiences often come with thoughts.

There are all kinds of interesting ways my guidance shows me things. My feeling is that experiences have more of an effect than words.

I don't mean to suggest that I don't look at issues on my own. I do so quite a bit. I've found that it really helps to use a notebook and pen when doing so, because some degree of unclarity tends to be involved when it comes to limiting thought patterns. When we write things down, we get all necessary thoughts in front of us so we won't forget essential ingredients as we think about them. I've found that many thoughts about an issue come to me when I use this method, that wouldn't come to me if I simply thought about them. It is as if writing helps provide the space for inner knowing to come to life.

Often I'll make a list about why I no longer need to believe in a thought pattern that limits me. First I'll go over the list intellectually, in order to verify that I'm thinking clearly. Next, I'll try to feel how each item is correct.  If a limiting thought pattern comes back to me I'll say: "Look, you considered this thought pattern very carefully, and there is no need to keep picking it up!"

I agree that a lot of physical problems can be dealt with if we take care of the aspects of mind that trouble us. We clear up energetic blocks when we do so. Doing so has sure helped me.

BETSON asked about the similarities because Christian Science's approach to healing and what Vajra wrote. Before REI posted, I hadn't read anything about Christian Science. I checked out Wikipedia, and saw that Christian Science believes that psycological issues play a big part in physical problems. As is obvious by what I wrote above, I agree. Of course there are situations where we might have a microbial disease, or something such as our arm gets broken in an accident.

Alysia:

You sure do have a way of making things sound humorous. "A long train going by" ;D  I like your usage of "floaters" on other threads.


LaffingRain wrote on Jan 4^th, 2008 at 1:11pm:

I think conflict is what suffering is. the other day I was in conflict and I was watching my thoughts feed the conflict. it was like a long train going by  :-X I finally just said to self, what are u doing now? lol. I do this a lot like its normal or something.

No problem guys, i just thought it would be of interest and more to the point potentially useful. We can substantially alter our mind (which is amazingly plastic) using appropriate training and exercises like  Chod, meditation or the Tonglen I mentioned before.

It's not enough to just intellectualise about stuff, we need to routinely work on ourselves. The great strength of Buddhism if we can get around its foreign feeling is precisely that it makes available such a well developed and proven toolkit for working with mind. One that's broadly compatible with all traditions.

Don't worry R, there's not that much between the various positions - probably nothing significant given that our conceptualisations of this stuff must inevitably be so approximate. The various strands/traditions will almost certainly be around long after us anyway - the most important issue in this regard is probably that we stay nice and light and don't get hung up on rigid belief systems. ( :)it'll be all right on the day!)

It's worth saying as well that the full blown Tibetan Chod (a two hour ritual conducted by a Yogi or a Lama and much more detailed than what's described in the link above) entails working with all sorts of higher aspects of mind  as well as drawing on lower emanations of it much as you describe. I don't know enough to describe it fully here, and it'd take pages and probably leave everybody bemused anyway.

The critical issue is possibly the insight that when what we desire or fear causes us problems the key is not to push it away and keep pouring energy into it (send Alysia's train off on its way!) but rather to try to see the situation in perspective, and embrace it with love, intelligence and acceptance of the reality of the situation.

This is a hugely widely applicable practice or perspective.

The Chod is I think basically just an intelligently designed if exotic sounding way of structuring the whole thing so that (a) it's put into a familiar and easily handled form (for a 15th C Tibetan at least ;_)) and (b) it sidesteps our conditioned responses  - which are usually aggression based rather than loving.

Blink's Joy Experience probably triggers something similar. Maybe what happens when we look closely into someone's eyes is that it provides something to rest our awareness on like the breath or a visual object is used to steady mind in meditation - thought (the source of fear and aggression) stops and we can't as a result help becoming lightly meditative, and in that state naturally connect and empathise, or feel love.

It's maybe not by accident that we tend to interpret distrustfulness or hostility in a person who won't meet our eyes, or whose eye contact and body language are 'shifty' - they are not drawn intimately enough into contact for their awareness or body to settle, and as a result presumably do not empathise with us...

good topic, my motor is humming and the train is gone by at last.

The Chod reminds me of an exercise as explained in Bruce's books where one engages the conflict, by talking to it. another example is engaging dialogue with one's own higher self.
Heres as best I recall, the exercise or a facsimile.
I'll use my runaway train thing.
first make the belief an entity or see the higher self as an entity who answers correctly.
Make yourself the one in charge of things  or better yet, make the higher self be you.
I'll call myself householder higher self or HHS.

HHS: theres a train in my living room making a rukus; hello? Train belief thought form entity what are you doing running thru my peaceful house?

Entity in charge of driving trains using my gasoline we shall call him BS.

BS: I am a fear based locomotive which is attached to a belief system; would u like me to blow my horn?

HHS: not really  >:( but can you answer my questions?

BS: Yes, I am at your service.

HHS: how is it that you say you are serving me?

BS: I provide a ride for you; as well I try to protect you, you yourself placed me in service.

HHS: I know about the ride part, but we never arrive anywhere, like to a conclusion.
but how do you think you are protecting me?

BS: I serve you by allowing you to feel right and in control of your life.

HHS: I truly thank you for serving me and making me feel in control, now I would like to focus on another belief which says I do not need to feel right or control anything, because I am loved just as I am right now and where love is, fear does not have room in the household to be rumbling by.

BS: As you wish, so it is.

the most important part is to accept the entity/belief, not to deny its existence with irritation, so you thank it, because it was only doing its job, what it thought you wanted.
I think Ian mentioned something along this lines with Chod.

Once I remember a spirit message. a good friend was working with me in the astral. I find out later he studied Reiki and he had an intuitive sense what needed to be done in my case, and had prepared me by telling of his guides had asked him to assist me, because my higher self had asked for help to the universe. this asking I had done, for help, it was subconscious. however I grew frightened and in conflict during the night while the healing was coming about. the vibrations were in the first, 2nd, and 3rd chakras mostly, I don't believe they went to the heart or crown. I found out later some others were with him and they were sending love to me as they listened to my singing voice on a tape I had sent him.

It was exhausting me, the love and frightening me so after awhile I asked for it to stop and it did. too much of a good thing! lol.

then after that we continued a bit to email and communicate and I told him what had happened but not how much I was blown away and frightened that I had had to ask for it to stop. I think it was so powerful because there were maybe 6 people sending love.
at any rate, working with this Reiki master, powerful emotions would rise up; I got very angry at him once for some silly reason, and I knew it was my belief system, but it was another one of those runaway trains. I saw a past life images during this time and connected it to my friend, but I'm not really sure if I knew him then.
what my guides message was to alleviate the upheaval, was one of those messages i sometimes get while just waking up. "offer gentle nonresistance" thats all that was given, so when the emotions would come overwhelming me, like fear, I was to let it pass by without  resisting the fear and it would flow on out of me.

they were trying to tell me that resistance caused fear to get bigger.

after this period I listened to my singing voice with my friend's ears. I heard what he heard in other words, I had thought it was not good at all. He had given me an entirely different perspective causing love of myself. he said I was a fast learner, bless his heart.

Blink that joy exercise I really got into a visualization with that. communication with one another thru the eyes is so much quicker. I have many stories about the eyes, but will spare you all for the moment!

love, alysia

That's a very nice and at my level of expertise accurate analogy to the Chod practice Alysia, but probably much easier for those not used to eastern terminology and idioms.

For sure the principle is common to all sorts of systems of spiritual healing. Not just the eastern examples like Chod and Reiki, but also some of the older Western psychic traditions. Putting 'spiritual healing' in Google brings up all sorts.

All seem to involve placing one's higher self or awareness outside of one's body and visualising the required change. Chod in it's Tibetan form involves invoking a form of higher female deity called a Daikini (their role is the re- integration of capability visualised during meditation) to assist in integrating this.

I mentioned before the apparent power of the Chod done by the Tibetan yogi I met - it produced very obvious air movements and a chill reminiscent of a haunting as soon as he started.

I know of somebody in Holland who suffers from very severe depression. He's in the process of being treated by a psychotherapist who uses an African psychoactive herb named iboga (legal there, but i think not in the USA) to assist in the achievement of a mind state friendly to visualisation. (an experienced meditator can do it without this, the iboga could also rather scramble your mental processes) His depression materialised as a great black monster, he's now working with it.

I'd be interested to hear of your experience around eye contact Alysia. ( ;) no, not that experience!!)

Hey thanks Vajra (and all others...)

I'm working on integrating afterLife discoveries(beliefs?) to tibetan buddhism technology
and those ideas sure come in handy

ok, since u asked Ian, heres my eye experiences. back in the 80's I was trying to do astral travel. I'm like Bruce, in that I could not get out of my body and it was frustrating. the higher self knows whats best in this case.
I read how to books and read of others experiences of seeing their body from another location. I thought it sounded pretty simple to do. I wanted to look at my body from a 3d perspective.
and then I projected from this thought a dual consciousness experience which seemed quite involuntary at the time. I felt myself traveling, a current I'm now familiar with as an energy current. I glided up to my ego, and looked upon her face and body. She was aware of me. the eye was looking at the eye.
As she and me locked eyes, the ego's eyes became light infused and like two huge light globes and the light was also beauty, and unconditional love in their emanation.

I was awed at my own self and denied I was the light. I mean my ego denied she was the light. my ego told me, the higher self, to go away. Ego said it was having a separation experience of not being the light.
so it could be summed up I was looking at the effects of a dualistic world.
I believe my ego and my higher self have accomplished a total merge at this time as I accepted I too, am the light. :)

Hi,

Very interesting and informative thanks. I would like to add my take on this be it what it may. That one should eliminate the "love of ones self "  ‘In this I have to disagree” I have experience with mentally ill people, depressives, bi-poplars, etc and the one common thing is “self-hatred, thus the constant thoughts of self-destruction by suicide etc.

Jesus said love one another as you “love yourself” and I agree with him. I am not referring to selfishness or self-centeredness. If one loves the awareness that god has provided you, and the body he has given you, will like wise love others in the same way. We must not become so spiritually minded that we become no earthly good. Meditation is a wonderful healthy practice, but to sit in a cave somewhere for twelve long years in the Himalayas, as if an English woman did makes no sense to me, is unproductive, and adds nothing to society. When asked why she had performed this marathon separation, she was unable to give a satisfactory answer, simply saying to get to know her self. Well at the age of sixty if you still do not know whom you are you are in real trouble.

Alan

Why does it matter to you, Alan, whether or not someone sits in a cave for 12 years?  Why do you feel the need to criticize it? Does it make you uncomfortable that another's personal or spiritual values might appear to differ from yours? How could you possibly know the value of sitting quietly in any particular place for 12 years unless you personally did it?

"If you sit by the river long enough, you will see the body of your enemy float by."
Japanese Proverb

A cave, Alan, could be just about anything, couldn't it?

For instance, I was in a 13 year marriage that eventually ended. Was it a waste of time? Of course not. There was much to value and remember in those 13 years, even though I walked "away" from the marriage. Can I explain this adequately to anyone? No. Do I need to go back there? Not particularly.

In meditations I have often visited cave-like places, underground places. I have received healings. In the timeless embrace of deep relaxation, who can say how long I have rested in these places? No one.

See, to my way of thinking, time is meaningless. It is simply a vehicle for living that carries us somewhere else.

And, if you are talking about self-love, what could be more loving to herself than removing herself from everyone else so that she could hear her own thoughts? Perhaps she grew to love her own thoughts, and perhaps in getting to "know" herself she also learned to truly love herself.  

Have you ever been short of words to explain something?  Why is it that should she do that "work" for you or me?

with love, blink :)

Blink:

Regarding what you wrote to Alan, it is interesting that the cave dwelling thing comes from Eastern influences, while people such as Alan who have had near death experiences, tend to believe that taking part in the World in a loving way is what spiritual life is really about.

The other night I received an extended verbal message. At the end it said, people have been placing too much of an emphasis on consciousness, not enough emphasis on love. People who meditate according to the Eastern viewpoint, often try to find that they are pure awareness. We're all already awareness beings, so perhaps it would be better to find a way to become awareness beings who live completely according to love. I tried that awareness thing, and it gets you only so far.

If you think about what Alan wrote, it isn't necessarily negative. I know of a lot of people who seperate themselves from the rest of the World as they get involved with gurus, give guru lots of time and money, but nothing to the rest of the World. I used to be one of these people. I gave so much, and in the end nobody benefited except for guru's wallet size.

I think R that we can't specify a standard one size fits all life path, and that to presume that Buddhism does would be a very big mistake. Meaning that intensive meditation in retreat may be the correct life path for one, while another needs time in the world - probably with meditation as well.

Buddhism does not generally allow people indiscriminately in to that life (i can't say it doesn't happen, but what i've seen with people proposing long term 3 year retreats and the like is intensive screening using both conventional means, divination and experience of short retreats)

Traditions like Shambhala emphasise the path of normal life in the world.

That said if a person can be rapidly progressed by intensive meditation they very likely may be left in a position to do a great deal of good that they otherwise couldn't.

Retreat as an escape from life is very much frowned upon and weeded out where at all possible. It's actually a perennial problem at residential dharma centres where they have to be quite firm about weeding out.

But that problem is the result of the individual's orientation.

Many Christian and other traditions for this reason suffer with the same issues, for example the priesthood or a convent was a desirable career in purely secular terms in Europe until very recently.

We've already had pages of discussion on the teaching of love and compassion, and their central positioning in Mahayana Buddhism...

Vajra:

I'd say that sitting in a cave for 12 years and going for a retreat aren't quite the same.

Regarding Buddhists, I figure there are many wonderful loving people who practice Buddhism, and benefit according to how they apply themselves.

Regarding Buddhist teachers, I don't figure you can categorize all of them the same way. This would have to be done on a case by case basis, just as one would have to look at say for example, Catholic priests on a case by case basis. Whether or not one thinks so, Buddhist teachings are passed on generation to generation, just as Catholic teachings are passed on generation to generation. I figure many sincere people have chosen to become either Buddhist or Catholic priests etc.

The main thing for many people, is that they influence the World in a positive way, and get to move on to a nice place after they die.  I figure people from various religions and non-religious people do so in their own way.

When it comes to the many false gurus, outside of the fact that sometimes even hard lessons help us, people would be better off without them.

To sum up, I believe it is a mistake for a person to believe that they have to become a monk of some kind, in order to grow spiritually. Many people become monks because they believe that becoming one is the only way they can grow spiritually. A number of people have told me this. This is a misconception that is never shared by people who have NDEs, not even when they have experiences that are cosmic in nature.

:) Spot on. Can't disagree with any of that.

I do agree too that there can be bum teachers out there. Maybe worse that many get hung up on a narrow view of observance that dictates what they do. But as before that's mostly a function  of their grasping after something external in the mistaken view that it can deliver.

As you say genuine experience somehow produces a softening that at least in some cases transforms this position almost overnight - it gets a lot easier to 'feel' or know intuitively what's right for you...

OK I said I'd come back when I had some experience with Chod. (the Tibetan Buddhist practice which is the subject of this thread - see the first post where I explained it)

The issue I've been working with approximates to my motivation, but a bit more subtle than that. I guess it's been a bit of a life issue, in that initially I was inclined to overcommit to causes and undertakings. Following years of thyroid induced fatigue I became quite gun shy. My thought process and instincts would suggest a course of action, but once I got stuck in it would become such a mental and physical struggle. With time I lost confidence in myself and started holding off getting involved in stuff - but this too caused a conflict with my instinct as to what I should be doing.

It surfaced as a visualisation of this worn out old Amercian footballer in 40s football gear. I've several times completed the practice of offering love and myself as a gift to he/she/it as outlined in the original post. Resting for quite some time afterwards after re-integration in some sort of no space no time type reality filled with light.

Absolutely remarkable effects  - I've found myself having to restrain myself so that I don't act brusquely or too pro-actively towards other people. It feels like somebody took a load off my back.

I don't know if this will be permanent, but I imagine it'll need repetition for some time if it's not to wear off. But it's almost so effective that care is needed - it could very easily spill over into arrogance and misuse.

If I try to rationalise what went down it's presumably a tool that allows reprogramming of the mind (or the mind created reality) at quite a deep level. No idea how it may work. It's probably limited in use by the fact that you probably need a pretty stable meditatively trained mind to stay with it, but a bit of an eye opener....

Ideas anybody?

Ian quote from original Chod method of healing:

it's ultimately about reuniting separated aspects of mind through love,
____

reminds me of self retrievals Ian, where one integrates a broken off part of self by embracing that aspect with love.

never heard of Chod before you mentioned it. Tibet, might like to see Tibet culture some day. thanks, alysia

It never struck me that way Alysia, but recovery of a separated part of one's self exactly what it is. I think it wouldn't necessarily produce results quite so quickly in all situations - that it can take years to sort some isues. Thanks for that.

Must say I'd fancy a visit to Tibet too, the few I've met (lbeit all quite highly trained) had this rather lovely mix of qualities - grounded, direct and at the same time not aggressive.