Bruce,

I never get it out of my system telling you how much passion I feel about your work.  You've influenced me in such a wonderful way.  There are so many things about what you teach that are favorites of mine, and one of them is how beliefs affect and alter our perception.  One story in particular, Disappearing Peanut Butter Jars, is one of my favorites because it helped explain some of my own experiences.  I hope that with my own personal experiences with this subject and what I've learned from you I can help pass on the awesome realization of this concept.  

There are a couple things I wanted to ask you.  (1)  When you first were going to make the sandwich, do you know why you asked yourself where the jar was?  Was it one of those absentminded things we talk to ourselves about without actually caring about the answer, or did you really not remember where you left the peanut butter?  (2) When you first looked into the cupboard, were both jars missing at that point?

I'm curious how such an innocent question could have such drastic affects on perception.  It makes me think that our reality is never what we think or expect it to be.  It's probably very likely that our reality, because of how beliefs affect our perception, is in constant shifting and rearranging, but we just don't notice these things.  Most of all, what most people tend to do is just shake their head, think "that was weird", and then never give it another thought.  You, on the other hand, dissected this phenomenon down to the bone to demonstrate how it is even possible.  

I wanted to hear your opinion and thoughts of what actually happened to the jars that seemed to disappear.  You and I have personally talked a lot about our personal experiences with this phenomenon.  Each separate incident of "disappearing objects" I study I get the same conclusion...I don't believe they actually disappear, at least not in the normal understanding of that word.  Reality is a frame of mind, and when your beliefs blocked your perception of the jars it is because your frame of mind essentially created an alternate reality in which the jars did not exist.  That's not exactly saying the same thing as the jars disappeared.  But basically we could say "same difference", right?  In essence you could say that from the jars' perspective, nothing changed.  And if that's true, that leaves only one other option, and that is that your perspective changed.  It is my belief that it's more likely that these items stayed exactly where they originally were, but that you yourself actually entered a different reality, one in which the jars did not exist.  Where the jars originally existed is a frame of mind too, one that you experienced up until the point of not experiencing it.  

I want to demonstrate how the same logic for the peanut butter jar story applies to one of my own experiences, one in which someone's set of keys mysteriously and literally vanished from sight.  There is one huge difference though...in the story of your jars, you looked for the jars in the same place where you expected them to be, and that is where you eventually saw them again.  That makes sense.  You'd expect them to be in that specific location, if that is where you know them to be, so that is where you were looking when your frame of mind changed back to it's original reality, the one in which those jars were sitting right there.  

In the case of the missing keys, as it is with keys they could likely be anywhere so that's what you do, you look everywhere for them.  But they never did turn up in the place where we expected them to be.  We expected them to be sitting on the table between us because that is where they were all evening long.  However, they didn't reappear there, they reappeared in a completely different location and in a most unlikely and impossible place.  By this example it would definitely appear that the keys themselves really actually did de-materialize and then re-materialize.  However, applying the same logic from your peanut butter jars story, I still don't want to jump to the conclusion that the keys vanished from one location and reappeared in another.  My theory still is that the state of the keys never changed, only your perception of them did.  When the woman who lost the keys exclaimed, "where are my keys, they were right here!" she inadvertently created a temporary alternate reality in which the keys did not exist, and she took the rest of us along with her.  There were about 5 of us who witnessed this.  

So where did the keys eventually end up?  Later that evening back in Judy's own house, (the keys having vanished at a friend's) she frustratingly threw down her belongings onto the floor and said, "I know those keys are here, they just have to be", and the keys suddenly rematerialized right there in front of her as she opened a zipped up binder.  She said it should have been impossible for those keys to fit there, and in fact once she saw them there she tried to fold over and zip up the binder but found that the keys didn't fit and that it was impossible to close up the binder.  So how was it possible that the keys were there in the first place?  I believe that they weren't there all along; they only appeared there because that is where Judy was looking when she made up her mind that those keys are here, they just have to be.  

I've asked myself, why then didn't the keys simply appear back at our friend's house, sitting on the table, when Judy made up her mind the keys had to be there?  For one thing, Judy physically was not there anymore and therefore her frame of mind was not there anymore.  She was sitting on the floor in her own living room telling herself the keys had to be here.  So it's my belief that that is why the keys mysteriously appeared there, where Judy happened to be looking at the moment, despite it being the most unlikely location.  Perhaps if Judy had made up her mind that the keys just had to be sitting on the table at our friend's house, then that's probably where they would have turned up, and our friend would find them, call Judy on the phone and say, "Guess what, I found your keys.  They were sitting here on the table all along.  It's really strange how none of us saw them sitting there".  

Just as with the jars, I would tend to believe that from the perspective of the keys themselves, nothing ever changed.  The keys existed in the same reality and state of being as they always had.  

These are just some ideas I'm tossing around and I wondered if you could give it some thought and tell me your own ideas and opinions.  Anyone else reading, please chime in!

Thanks,

Vicky

hey Vicky so nice to see you back here, I always think of you and I always enjoy your posts, and you have a smooth way of writing, easy to follow. can't wait for your book, yes folks she's writing a book :)

Yes, I can't begin to show the influence of Bruce's books in my own life, but he probably knows on some level that some will get it, and some will just take what they want and throw out the rest, and thats ok. briefly, Vicki one of Bruce's stories about the skunk smell hit home with me when my own pet wandered away never to be seen again. a dog.

for the newbies following this, and I'm sorry I if I mess up the story, but there once lived a woman who loved the smell of skunk. this alone is hard to imagine, but she did. this lady was either related to Bruce or related to a friend of Bruce. Bruce was with his friend and the skunk smell permeated the room they were in as they were receiving a signal of this scent that the spirit who preferred skunk over perfume scent was there communicating with them. theres a bit more to the story and I think it's in the Resources page, or free article page at the top of this board. much items there to review.

the reason I like this story is I had a similar occurrence and it does happen for some of us that way. I was feeling presence of guidance in the room and frustrated to be missing my little dog for months on end, searching for her constantly, not being able to accept she would never be returned to me. I felt much guidance present with me while I wrote and rewrote my own book, making sure I only wrote the experiences from as much a factual viewpoint as possible. it was hard. I often pulled my hair out. I needed help.
well those presences were comforting and inspiring and on this occasion was the same. I smelled the unique sulphur smell of my little girl dog Tutti I sometimes called her, in the living room only..I ran around the large living room searching for the location of the smell which was all over the place but I couldn't believe my own nose. I even ran outside briefly sniffing the air out there..nothing...ran back inside there it was again, all over. just like the lady and her love of skunk smell, I loved Tutti's sulfur smell. it just smelled good, don't ask me why. frustrated I couldn't see her, yet I couldn't believe this was a visit from her either, I suddenly stood still, being prompted by spirit presence, to stand still and accept she was here. I talked back and said, yes but where? At your feet, looking up at you they said softly. overwhelmed with emotion of longing for her by this point, I finally believed she was and reached down to give her a hug goodbye. since I couldn't see her I wrapped my arms around the spot of air they said she was in. I didn't feel her body but I felt a mass of energy that was semi solid, like a small orb in circumference, but mainly I felt the PUL of her and the PUL of me, and like they say parting is sweet sorrow. the sulfur smell went away after that. just completely disappeared and I could let it be, that she had taken her leave from this world, so I didn't have to keep looking for her.
I also remember running into all the rooms of my house, and the smell was only in the living room. so from that I deduce spirit can be in a specific location of a house.

briefly Vicki's story of the perceptional realities I have a little story I read about in another book which opened my eyes to how "what you see is what you get."
also, I like Bruce's reference when we are dealing with black gooey stuff on a person, to mean, they are feeling hindered by the gooey belief system and want some help, there is a thing you can do to help them; called "seeing it not there." for them. this is like doing a healing. you never want to pull the gooey stuff off, as it sticks to you then. you want to stand still and see it not there. then they will be free of it.

for my own reference I utilize this information to translate to "I hold a vision of your perfection, all else is illusion. illusion is fake. then I feel it in my bones it is true, people have divinity inside of them, like I do, I see their perfection, then perceiving it is instantaneous.

this other story I was deeply impressed with The Path, by Cozzolini, he tells of a group experiment. it relates to that perception follows the belief. not belief follows perception.
there was maybe 12 others sitting in straight back chairs, who were witness to this experiment.  a lady was taken to another room. she was taken to a deep level and told that mrs Blake had left the room (just a name I made up) now, it gets tricky here, theres 2 parts to this story, so u have to read carefully.

when she was brought back into the room she returned to her chair and sat down. In truth, Mrs Blake had NOT left the room but her body was observed by all the group members sitting where she usually sat.
they asked the woman to speak to Mrs Blake. she replied mrs Blake was not in her chair.  heres the 2nd part: underneath Mrs Blakes chair was a small hidden object, left there by the facilitator, and this object was obstructed from the subject's view, as well from everyone else's view in the room. Mrs Blakes feet obscured it from the subject's vision.

the facilitator asked if she could see if Mrs Blake had left anything like her coat on the chair or was there anything at all that was there? he did not lead her to look under the chair in other words. the subject then mentioned the object, hidden by the shoes of Mrs Blake, she described what the object was perfectly, showing that the subject could see right through a physical body, with nonphysical sight, or we could call it infinite mind sensing. I do like TMI's explanation of that we all have nonphysical senses.

I see these senses as extensions or antannae of our physical senses.

thanks Vicki, your sharing inspires me. I hope Bruce comes by!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/spiritvideo/Alysia/myspace2/myspace4/eye1.gif

Vicky,

It's so good to see you here, I too enjoy your posts and look forward to reading your book.


Vicky wrote on Dec 16^th, 2007 at 7:46pm:

There are a couple things I wanted to ask you.  (1)  When you first were going to make the sandwich, do you know why you asked yourself where the jar was?  Was it one of those absentminded things we talk to ourselves about without actually caring about the answer, or did you really not remember where you left the peanut butter?  (2) When you first looked into the cupboard, were both jars missing at that point?

It was one of the absent-minded things.  For some reason as I was staring down at my two slices of wonderbread on the kitchen counter the question about which kind of peanut butter I was going to use popped into mind.  Just a question on the spur of the moment of no particular sigmificance that caused me to think about the two kinds of peanut butter and that I would have to find which ever one I picked.  Kind of silly actually.  I knew I was standing directly if front of the cupboard where both jars should be so I was expecting just to look up and see them both.  And for some reason after deciding which of the two peanut butters to use I just happened to mentally frame the next step in my sandwich making process as a question.  My mental conversation with myself was probably something like . . .

(still staring at the bread)  
(thinking) Okay, I'm going to use the really good peanut butter . . . So . . . where in the cupboard in front of me. . . (where I know both jars should be) is the good peanut butter?

Then, raising my gaze up to look in that open cupboard . . .

(thinking) Now that's really odd . . . I don't see the jar of really good peanut butter . . .

Looking around the entire cupboard . . .

(thinking) Nope, it's not in this cupboard . . .

Looking down at the bread . . .

(thinking) Well, since that peanut butter isn' there I guess I will have to use the Skippy . . . So . . . where in this cupboard is the Skippy . . .

Then, raising my gaze up to look in that open cupboard again . . .

(thinking)  Now this is really strange, the Skippy isn't in this cupboard either . . .

Looking down at the bread  again . . .

(thinking and feeling very frustrated) This makes no sense at all.  I am the only person living in this house who eats peanut butter, it is always in this cupboard, there is no other place in this entire house they can be, those jars of peanut butter have to be in this cupboard!!

Then, raising my gaze up to look in that open cupboard again, looking absolutely straight ahead at both peanut butter jars, sitting side by side almost touching each other, less than twelve inches in front of my nose, straight and level in front of my eyes . . .

(thinking) What in the H-E-double-toothpick is going on????  Those two jars were NOT there either time I just looked in this cupboard . . . wait a second . . . stopping looking in the cupboard . . . look away and think about this for a moment . . .

Looking down at the bread  again

(thinking about what just happened)  I know what just happened is impossible . . . but I also know it happened . . . how could I prove to myself it really happened . . . well . . . if the peanut butter jars were really not there I should have seen what is behind where they are now sitting . . . what did I see?

After remembering every detail I could remember of the things I had seen when the jars were not there I looked back up, took the jars out of the cupboard and looked at what was behind them.  It was all exactly as I remembered seeing it just moments earlier when the physical presence of those jars should have blocked my view.

I gave a lot of thought over several days to how such a thing could possibly happen and the only thing that could explain it was that somehow, due to my frame of mind, those jars had no longer been within the same reality, physical reality, that I and everything else in that cupboard had been in.


Vicky wrote on Dec 16^th, 2007 at 7:46pm:

I'm curious how such an innocent question could have such drastic affects on perception.  It makes me think that our reality is never what we think or expect it to be.  It's probably very likely that our reality, because of how beliefs affect our perception, is in constant shifting and rearranging, but we just don't notice these things.  Most of all, what most people tend to do is just shake their head, think "that was weird", and then never give it another thought.  You, on the other hand, dissected this phenomenon down to the bone to demonstrate how it is even possible.

Yeah, I too am convinced that our reality is constantly being rearranged to conform to our beliefs, expectations and assumptions.  Most of us take no notice of or reject our conflicting experiences as "weird" or our "eyes playing tricks on us" and never give it another thought.  Just like we do in our dreams.  But, when something pops up that is a conflict between my experience and my beliefs my attention drawn to it and I HAVE to figure out how that can be.  It's almost (my wife Pharon would say, "What do you mean ALMOST??) an obsessive-compulsive thing with me.


Vicky wrote on Dec 16^th, 2007 at 7:46pm:

I wanted to hear your opinion and thoughts of what actually happened to the jars that seemed to disappear.

I have come to believe that the jars don't disappear, as in, cease to exist.  But rather that they are just no longer within the same reality that I am in.  The thing that makes the most sense to me is that while I believe the reality I am in is physical and that this physical reality is the "real" reality, as opposed to "nonphysical realities" which are "not real" by virtue of the fact that they are nonphysical, there is no such difference as "real" and "not real" no such difference as "physical" and "nonphysical."

I have come to believe that the only differences between these realities are those created by my beliefs, expectations and assumptions about them.  So for me, I believe that all realities are closer to our understanding of dream realities.  And, I am actually in a reality that is a dream, a very persistent, sequencial, time-and-space-exist dream reality, but in the final analysis, closer to my understanding of a dream.

So yeah, it is a "frame of mind."  The jars don't disappear, they just move out of my frame of mind.  To say that they disappear would be part of the belief system that says they were "physical" and therefore "real" in the first place.  So I would say that I completely agree with you when you said, "your frame of mind essentially created an alternate reality in which the jars did not exist."


Vicky wrote on Dec 16^th, 2007 at 7:46pm:

Just as with the jars, I would tend to believe that from the perspective of the keys themselves, nothing ever changed.  The keys existed in the same reality and state of being as they always had.

I agree.  I would say a basic question is, what are the keys and where do they "truly" exist?  When your friend moved them out of "physical" reality by her frame of mind, all the witnesses moved them right along with her and for them the keys were out of their frames of mind too.  Then, when Judy decide they had to be here, she moved them back into everyone's frame of mind again.  And even though they were all "dreaming" that they were in a different "real, physical" location, the keys moved back into all the witness's frames of mind and presto, they "reappear."  If Judy could learn to do this at will she would have a great career opportunity as a magician, a guru and if she played her cards right she might even become a saint.  She might WOW a crowd by disappearing from the spot where she was speaking to them and then reappear in the next instant a 100 feet away and keep talking like nothing out of the ordinary just happened.

Personally, I would advise Judy to avoid walking on water in front of big crowds unless she wants to cause big trouble for herself and those in the crowds.  There was a Guy in the Bible who did that in front of just a small group of close friends and things got a really bad for Him later.  If she tries to explain too much about the true nature of the reality in which we exist to the natives Here too fast no telling what the natives mignt decide to do to Her.

Bruce

u made it easy to understand Bruce, how perception creates reality, its so logical I can't even get emotional about it.. :)

my story of the lady and the object under the chair seen by the subject despite a physical body obscured it and your peanut butter jars which you could see what was behind the jars, when they weren't there the first time, they are the same kind of story regarding perceptional realities, so I am mildly excited about this thread.  :)

now I almost see how He walked on water, the laws of this world did not apply to him for he had truly risen above them..(pun, take note, pun!)

I don't care what a person does, where they go, whom they hang with, the natives in most realities get into a mob mentality so easily.
speaking of consciousness as compared to animals and humans, the similarities are there, except the human has this divine potential and the animal is just being an animal which we accept, its an animal. I was thinking how I had 3 dogs once, the small kind and if you took one for a walk, it was good mannered. if you took all three for a walk, they turned into a mob mentality because they felt more power when with each other, they merged. same with people when it comes to things being shown that are not within the mob's belief system of possibilities to possess such power as walking on water.

I think all it takes (initially) is sitting there thinking "it's possible..for me? nah...wait, anythings possible.."  so you do this for awhile you begin to put a dent in the belief system that says no way, just a dent, but it feels very good, to have a dent there.

love to you, and thanks again for all your thoughts and your books!

Alysia,

I'm glad you shared that story of the group experiment and it really got me thinking.  It really takes a long time for this concept to sink in which is probably why I've spent so much time thinking it through. I've had about 4 of 5 examples of it in my life, and still I'd love to have more.  Each one is so unique and unforgettable and yet my husband still just says I must be delusional.   ::)

Hi Bruce!

Judy was mad as heck.  I can't imagine she'd want to have an experience like that again!  The thing is, it was my fault this thing happened to her, well at least in part.  She played a role too, of course, but earlier that day I was reading a book about de-materialization and simply not buying it.  I shook my head and told myself that "I'd have to experience de-materialization myself in order for me to believe it is possible".  And bam!  Look what happened later that evening.  I had no idea that my simple thought to myself was something powerful enough to make this amazing demonstration come to life.  

It was just a perfect, absolutely perfect setup for proving to myself that something like de-materialization, by all appearances, is indeed possible!  

PS--Alysia, Yeah, Grandma and the Skunk is my all-time favorite Bruce story too.  I remember reading that at work the first time, and just laughing out loud.  I didn't even know Bruce then but could picture him going through the motions of freaking out over a real live skunk in the house.

Love,
Vicky

Hi,

This is just sort of a side comment.
---It's wonderful that several threads are currently dealing with a crucial *moment* of transition when the spiritual  and the material worlds interconnect.  Or maybe,  the brief moment that our perception  of their interconnection becomes clear.
These moments are crucial to getting a better view of the consciousness that leads to spiritual perceptions. We are now drawing out details with a fine tip, rather than using the broader strokes of several years ago.  That's exciting!!

To the causal drop-in browser, these descriptions of crucial moments must be befuddling! :) I'm not sure what can be done for that, other than to encourage any newbies to ask whatever questions they need answered.
Certainly these conversations are getting further and further into the subject.
We are progressing!

Bets

Bets

hi all, yes, good thread Bets!  so important to observe that perceptions are only perceptions and not the whole picture. most people think what they see is what is. but perceptions only tell a point of viewing.

question: must we see to believe, or must we believe before we will see?
I think your partner Vicky, he must see before he will believe, but he will not believe first. but just being around you my dear,  will put a little crack in the armor of doubt, I believe this must be true, as if I lived in your house being around you would make me believe in something wonderful. (full of wonder=wonder-full) u r not delusional sweetie. I have seen reality and it is both worlds enjoined but no one can get this from myself, so I am at peace and so should you be. we have assistance.

those keys missing story, and my own story..got me thinking about the apports in my metaphysical church. back in Long Beach CA in the 60's, we had once a week meetings and sat in circle. the medium caused small stones of all colors to fall into the circle. since the lights were out, someone said a person hiding in the curtains ran out and threw the stones into the circle. hmm. I never knew what to believe about that. apports or materialization not my particular forte. but anything is possible, and I always keep my mind open to search for what the highest truth is by asking that I can see the truth even if it takes all my life. they could have been real stones materialized as I have been reading about folks find money sometimes in their pockets when they need it the most! and on more than just a single occurence; so u have to wonder, and be full of wonder, or the mind becomes closed down and can't receive only but the things which fit it's own little think tank. so you are doing just fine.
someday I will meet up with you and tell u in person. love, alysia  you too Bets, I need to see what u look like!

modify later: Here's another face light is glowing off vicky's face same as Nanner's. to me these are signals from spirit. I see it Bruce's pic too. maybe not all see this way, and is just my penchant, I think we all have our individual way of seeing something or hearing something out of the ordinary, say, nonphysical senses.

Romain was talking about trying to image Bets. so I thought I'd try. I saw short hair and like a permanent, and some gray mixed in, its like salt and pepper hair color, she combs the sides back.  tell me what your hair is like Bets, so I can improve my skills of image.

love, alysia

 Interesting thread and comments.  I would just add that while "physical" and "nonphysical" exist within the One Field, hence there is no real separation between the two, there are certainly objective differences beyond mere individualistic or collective beliefs, and even though collective belief manifests these to begin with.   The differences come in polarity considerations and in vibratory rates.  

 To merge these into One again, as truly is beyond our distorted beliefs and perceptions, we must take our vibratory patterns which correspond to seeming "physical" and super speed them up by and through living PUL like some Teachers (like Yeshua) have perfectly and consistently.    Those who haven't reached peak momentum in this process, still have to varying degrees, limited perceptions and beliefs on that matter (no pun intended).   Those coming to completion, realize that there is an important and necessary triune balance which needs to take place in order to complete this enLightenment while in physical.  Physical, mental, and Spirit, connected and contained within the One field, and yet with qualitative differences and innate reactions and tendencies.

 It's like, which came first, the chicken or the egg..  I would twist that around to say, which came first, the beliefs which created the distorted perceptions, tendencies, and ways of being or the ways of being and expressing which led to same before the distorted beliefs and perceptions gelled collectively to temporarily manifest seeming "physical reality"?    What do we need to more work on changing..both yes, but there is an important emphasis.

 Yes indeed, the natives are getting restless.  They always have been, and it behooves no one to have fear or worry in relation to same... practical caution in certain moments, yes, but not fear.  

I agree that the physical and spirit Worlds aren't as separate as we sometimes believe. The spirits I'm in contact with do various things to make there presence known. For example,  I have a photo of one of my nieces in my living room. Sometimes a red light will flash in front of it and I'll see the light reflect off of the glass. I thought this was unique to this photo. But then I found that the same thing would happen to other photos of this niece, including photos of her that are located in the houses of family members.

One time I was concerned about what was causing the light, and I felt a hand gently tap my right shoulder.  This tap and other events have shown me that the spirit beings I'm in contact with can be with me physically without being here physically.

Perhaps everything happens within some sort of matrix (not like the movie), and it just seems like we're in the physical World now.

I know Bruce wrote of filaments of awareness, my guess is that he considers this to be a 3D way of viewing things, with the understanding that different patterns of vibrational energy interact with each other, rather than actual spatially located parts of being.

My guidance provided me with a couple of experiences which showed me that if I ascend enough, I'll be in the physical World and spirit World at the same time.  It sure seems that way with the spirit beings I'm in contact with, because even though they are in the World of spirit, they are also aware of everything that goes on within the physical realm I'm within.  They don't miss anything.

Greetings recoverer,

Do those filaments of awareness correspond to the Aspects of souls we've discussed earlier?  Aspects much like halographs of the original but more programmed for single specific interests?

Do you recall which book you read about filaments in?

Bets

Betson:

Bruce speaks about them in different places. Mainly in voyage to curiosity's father. They are the filaments through which probes get connected to disks, disks to whatever is above, and so on and so on.

I figure this is a 3d way of looking at things, with the idea that linear time and space are real. If things were really set up that way, would the filaments that stretch from planet earth to where the discs are located, get tangled up like a bunch of spaghetti noodles, or would they pass through each other? What if a person lives on the other side of the World than its disk. Does a filament pass through the planet earth, or does it wrap around? What if a probe incarnated in world millions of light years away? Would a filament stretch that far?



betson wrote on Dec 20^th, 2007 at 5:34pm:

Greetings recoverer, Do those filaments of awareness correspond to the Aspects of souls we've discussed earlier?  Aspects much like halographs of the original but more programmed for single specific interests? Do you recall which book you read about filaments in? Bets