Greetings,

during the practice of meditation, as a matter of becoming side-tracked, I was introduced to the following glimpse of the hereafter.
It revealed, the (my?) state after physically dying would be like being ceased to exist. No consciousness, no spiritual awareness, no clairvoyant soul contacts, simply nothing, like pulling the plug and it would be like I have never existed before. The image of death I was used to before arriving at akc-board.

I was not surprised, even if I recently got back into reading information on "nirvana", saying that the last stage of our mind is the complete absence of e.g. egoism, greed, every misleading human desire, what was my idea of the hearafter, before getting used to the "being ceased to exist theory". Even though, Exitinction/ to be "blown away" (meaning of "nirvana") made more sense.

Emptiness (in buddhistic terms, shunyata) was/is something to handle, but nothingness?
But even if it was like nothingness, what could be done about it? Nothing I guess.
Seems like I again arrived at the point, where the thoughts of life being pointless (without the slightest bit of "to continue") "kicked in" again (but I don't dip into that for now, as there is already a thread, that points out how to come clean with this set of feelings).

There is also again this unimposing question, if the afterlife-ideas/ glimpses itself only come up to "ease the pain".
It is after all interesting to know, what leads us to ideas/ coincidences /contacts with the other side.
If it was fear, the concepts itself would be pointless.

Even if it seems like I took a few steps back to the time when I arrived here, being new to all of this, but besides all what I experienced during the short time being on akc-board, the validation after all is still missing. Maybe it sounds like asking an old question, but the cause is interesting, too.
I don't believe, that loss and grieve are what make us aware of "higher" aspects of self, but what is it then?

Not to become stuck with too long approaches, my question refers to initial states. What was the moment for you to say to yourself "Death is not all there is"?

An anticipation for closing my comment for now, it is not written down to offend anyones beliefs, thought system or afterlife-ideas, but an old urgent question, that is open from the point when awareness began to "kick in".

yours sincerely,

pulsar

Hi Pulsar. I see u are meditating but as yet no absolute knowing has come. it will, but I cannot say where or when but it seems you have set in motion a preparation to get your own personal knowing by your participation and persistence to your original question.
and I'm glad you're still with us.

the reason I can say this is you have a desire and curiosity to have your knowing. I have learned that curiosity and desire are active forces although not causing instant knowings, they are like steps in the process to get there.

believing is not the same as knowing. even Einstein said "imagination is more important than knowledge." thats a side note but you understand the premise.
I think your question is at what point did I or anyone here cease to doubt in immortality?
I told this story many times because it was my own turning point.

I was 18, brash, angry, I had to know for sure or couldn't go on to build a philosophy of life. I was always a "talker to god." I brought in some spirit teachers into my room and then I knew beyond all doubt from the physical phenomenon in the room and the voices in my head, beyond all doubt, and they asked me to choose power of the ego or would I choose the way of love, as taught by the master teacher JC. not in a position to exactly argue the point, I conceded to the way of love and I've never been sorry!

you WILL know. practice how it will feel when you do get your knowing; if you can imagine that you have already attained your knowing, what it feels like to be relieved of the question, then that will produce it for you even quicker.
love, alysia

Greetings Alysia,

you are right, I am still on to get insights, but in spite of this, the "big deal" did not ring my doorbell until now (and I do not expect it to happen like this).
Curiosity offered the possibility to take the initial steps into pe and meditation (timeless void), but just like you said, it is apparently a staircase with many little steps to be taken.
Like I said, the question is not the newest one, but attached to it, a new aspect, the will to know about how to become introduced into afterlife awareness.


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you WILL know. practice how it will feel when you do get your knowing; if you can imagine that you have already attained your knowing, what it feels like to be relieved of the question, then that will produce it for you even quicker.

An interesting thought, to get a glimpse of having already got there, it might calm the waves. I will probably just have to give it a try.
It seems you were more insightful than brash, or you would not have chosen the way you did.
Still possible, that I might get ahead on the spiritual path easier, if I accept love as premise?

Thanks for answering on this one.

yours sincerely,

pulsar

Hi Pulsar: you asked me if u could move ahead on your path if you accept love as a premise.

yes is my first response. then we get into the mental area to be asking what is love. or I should use this site's term PUL in order to be more clear.
yet we even question here what is PUL?

so it could be, you are on the heart intelligence path. some call a love path, but when I first saw this phrase I objected to it as seemed too new age for me. I too have problems with a few self professed new agers who seem artificial so I am like the reluctant new ager who hates all labels because they are limiting devices.

so not sure but that you are very introspective, eager, contemplative, mental, open, can pick up other's feelings well, just the sort of explorer should go far into your desired knowings to attain, as we discussed on another thread.
and some might object to my words for you, but I am able to pick up feelings of others sometimes and get rotes from that, but I am not a guru of course. so take what I say with your own natural ability to see if it is useful. if not, throw it away.

to clarify my personal experience with these initial nonphysical beings I encountered who set me aright, due to my asking for it I could offer what I think a love path is, while I think of one who had a perfect love for all, although I always insist, I am not a Christian but more just a mystic if I have to be forced to label myself.

its really hard to be free of labels though. we have been discussing here what the ego is, but more or less deciding the ego is selfish, has pride in it to get rid of perhaps, because pride goes before a fall.

what the beings told me is just because I had passion to get what I wanted, they said don't use your passion only for your own self. then this would be called going for the power, not necessarily going for the love.
we have many in the world go for the glitter, the power, the material attainments and we admire these.  At the same time we may admire these that they are getting their earthly experience that they wanted, if we are looking towards a perfect love path, we will see the participants on that path, are loved equally with the others in the sight of him who does not choose up sides. so a love path is impartial love with all having equal access to wisdom and knowings, but a power path can turn into a love path the same according to a person's ability to change their focus.

so for me, these beings were telling me to be careful. I had just called them forth. that is a power trip to them. I had called forth and out to any being. they said I was a smarty pants! lol! thats what I mean, too brash, too angry, acting like I had power, they wanted me to take the love path. at 18, no such thing as a love path, have to live a life before you can report on what happened in that life.
they were essentially trying to protect me from unscrupulous beings I also had the capacity to pull in because of strong will akin to anger. (all this I learned later by contemplating the experience)
it was heavy as the hippies used to say. though I didn't take drugs at that point, and very few drugs did I experiment with later, so anyone tempted to chalk this up to hallucination   of drugs can throw that idea away. I had a sound mind, just too much passion to know.
passion should be tempered with patience and study. what I didn't know then!

to further explain, if the readers will pardon my droning on about this, I had attained my knowing thru passion but not any wisdom yet or experiences in what love was exactly, or to choose love path. but I did have a focus point, in order to build my philosophy of life.

which is what you are looking for Pulsar, as you wrestle with feeling like you have no stability to stand on as you go after your greater self.
we all at one time stand exactly where you are standing. I offer my story but I know it's just a story to you.  I do get more clear in the telling. I went on and was this person who was naive and thought everyone was trustworthy; that is why I sound a call, not to god, as god was such a vague concept, I sounded to any passersby in the spirit world.

this is what they objected to essentially, that I had a naive approach in my passion. so I got called severely on it. yet, I was extremely happy! because I received lesson plan number one through it. like a breakthrough that we all want.
so personally speaking I went on to discover what is not love, this way I could compare it to JC's what is love.
so maybe you are observing the same. the dual aspects of our world.

I will keep you in my prayers for your knowing, but I know patience is a great thing to have in this world, like faith, we have to keep our minds out of the gutters of what love is not.  happy holidays everyone, its a good season to think what is peace.
Pulsar, the void is another great contemplation, another subject altogether; did u know the universe hates a void?  :)

Greetings Alysia,


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yet we even question here what is PUL?

No, we don't have to fall back that far, I experienced (the timeless void experience, a former post concerning first contacts with oneness) what you call PUL (I compared it to what users think about what PUL is, and my experience was similar) as "embodiment" of unconditional respect, acceptance, tolerance, equality, caringness. Maybe it were just aspects that I picked up, as the four attributes I am talking about are also unavoidably necessary for living on C1, not as a matter of feelings, but as a matter of reason. The "loving" part is missing, as you see. Sorry, I should have expressed it clearer. This is the reason for asking, if accepting love as a premisse is needed (because experiencing the "loving" part of PUL is missing).
One more thing concerning the "loving" part, the reason for not experiencing it via pe, is maybe bound to my C1 mindset, I often successful deny it, as it sounds too "flimsy" (but I guess there is no way to duck and cover :) ). Obviously, I would not even have the guts to use the "three words" (i *heart* u), even if I would arrive at a situation, where it would be adequate.

Passion, you seemed to have a lot of it, I cut my passion down to a size, where it wouldn't be recognized (simply put, blocking it out).
Experiencing while oob/pe is no matter of passion for me, but I have to say, that being eager to know something is obviously like being over-passionate, if comparing it with your experience, something that holds me down from time to time.


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I offer my story but I know it's just a story to you.

While talking via pm and on threads, we once came to the point, that all of us are teachers, so if your story was just "a story" to me, I obviously have not paid attention. I learned from your words before, so I do not doubt that I will continue to learn from them. :)

If I understood it the right way, you also had troubles with knowing in whom you could trust, or not.
It is the same with me, but I do not see everyone being trusworthy (until knowing them better!), rather being extremely careful in trusting.

yours sincerely,

pulsar

Hi Pulsar-
I think that "non-guru" Alysia has said about all that needs to be said in a practical sense.

From a more academic perspective, what you are doing is entering a very high level of meditation, verging into the contemplative. (The sequence is concentration, meditation, contemplation - where contemplation ultimately loses all of the ego-self.) Your experience was evidently the first taste of nirvastarka samadhi, and is normal. To make sense of it, allow your imagination to place you in the position of God-as-God, rather than God-as-person. Then as God, all the person stuff vanishes - it's not part of the essential reality. However, notice that awareness does not vanish. The aware part of you, what the Tibetans call the Knower, remains alert and interested.

There are three basic yoga approaches to contemplation - through love (bhakta yoga), through awareness and understanding (jnana yoga), and through joyful action (karma yoga), all of which eventually merge at the end of the process into "raja yoga", which is just the collection of the other three. Whichever of those you tend toward is OK, we're all different, and only rarely is a single path adopted by any person - although Ramakrishna was about as pure a bhakti as could be. So, from an abstract perspective, you're doing the right thing in the right way at the riight time, and getting the right results. - As a reminder, my favorite fact from Shri Sivananda, it only takes six months or so for a dedicated student to go from ignorance to enlightenment. You're right on schedual !  ::)

dave

Greetings,

@dave

Referring to your advice for imagining oneself in the position of god-as-god.
In fact, it would mean to emphazise on oneself, being a part of the divine/ ultimate truth, not a separation between oneself and god.
I was always thinking, that belonging/ being allowed to see oneself as part of the divine is something, that we have to regain, through righteous actions. So maybe much of our misunderstandings may root in having forgotten, that we never fall short of being connected with the essence. Maybe one can go that far to say, that it is wanted, that we are aware of being connected, in spite of which obstacles are to be taken.

Concerning contemplation, I wonder why joy is considered to reveal insights for oneself, maybe it is a fraud in my thought system, but if taking time to enjoy, there is always regret integrated, for not having used the time for a deeper outlook on myself. I always ask myself (also took a few meditation moments on this) about the reason for joy, no answer at all, just regret, as I mentioned.
Revealing through awareness and understanding in this case is obviously the approach, that reveals stronger insights, through seing the reason.

So 6 months are considered to be enough to be enlightened? :)
But then probably a crash course on love and joy would be needed? :D
I think I mentioned the following 1000 times, but I don't think my awarness is not that open, to see love and joy as the strong points, they might deserve to be looked at. Obviously, it might reveal also through opening up via meditation, you mentioned that in the end all of the three ways end at a merging point (matter of balance?!)

Meditation itself (a bit exaggerated, if a newbie considers to know this!) has strong effects, even on everyday life, as the balance within the mind also shines through, step by step the results are also carried out.

@dave and alysia

Thanks for sharing your insights, it helps a lot to share thoughts, a guideline.

yours sincerely,

pulsar

Hi Pulsar,
I`m tapping into the Quote"Not to become stuck with too long approaches, my question refers to initial states. What was the moment for you to say to yourself "Death is not all there is"?

The moment for me had been this:
At the age of  4 I began to get goosebumps everytime I walked thru a certain part of our old farm house. I always felt someone/thing reaching to touch my right shoulder. Soon I began to run thru that part of the house and took the spanking my mother gave me for running "gracefully". 20 years later I had been told by the Landowner that the man whom owned the house prior to my father, had shot his "4 year old daughter" and his wife between the kitchen and Livingroom. Thats exactly where I would slam dunk run thru! No wonder I had made first place in Track n Field in school, I had years of practice prior, running from something I didnt understand.

You`ve read some of the other stuff which has happened to me I believe.
Those are not "normal everyday things", or at 9 having my accident and the strange thing, whereever I was, whatever left my physical body - me beaming away somewhere and back thru blueish dust. So if theres no afterlife, who the heck or what the heck is it thats ringing my doorbell, flickering my lights every now and then (like right as I am asking the question outloud "dad are you here, can you hear me", in tears)... By the way ever since the beam away thing happened to me at 9, I can look at "signs on a road or words in a book from a far" and literally zoom the words closer to my eyes, to be able to read them. Freaks my fiancè out everytime now..lol..

and theres another reason too... maybe later.

Now I am beginning to search in "science" - Quantum Physics actually and finially theres really good info on "reality concepts" out there now.

When I get brave I`ll join you in meditation, but truthfully speaking I am affraid of it.

I just wanted to share with you "why I believe in the afterlife"..

Sending a soft smile,
Nanner

Hi P, that sounds quite like my own initial experience which came after years of meditation.

In my case there was no doubting the reality of the selflessness, the feeling of love and the falling away of the thinking mind at the time. That for me was the first real proof (as I saw it) that other realities actually existed. Some reportedly find this very frightening, but I have to admit it wasn't like that for me.

My own experience has been that it was afterwards accompanied by various sorts of abilities a little like those described by Nanner - mild psychokinesis, a moderate ability to remote view, to see auras and to feel them too.

These come and go depending on my state, they haven't yet stabilised although my ability to perceive light has greatly intensified since. This also for me was the start of a fairly rapid opening of the heart which I guess is still ongoing.

This as I've said before is at times is quite a raw experience, and produces quite a lot of sadness at times. Other times there's patches of this unaccountable joy, especially recently.

There's times too when the monkey mind gets the upper hand again and it all seems like a dream, one that's easily denied. But it wasn't.

I'm basically following the Buddhist path on this - which amounts to keeping on meditating while not grasping after or getting hung up on experience. There are aspects of this experience which seem to parallel accounts of the beginnings of the Vajrayana path as outlined by say Reggie Ray in 'Secret of the Vajra World'.

Tibetan Buddhism would argue this is territory (visualisation of one self as deities and so on) where you need an experienced teacher to stay out of trouble, but that's easier said than done and I have to say I'm just plugging on......

Hi Pulsar, I'm late to the thread so if you sent me a pm, I was thinking u might have, I'm sorry, I'm not able to get it today from that other profile. tech prob.

I think you're doing all right. its good for me to hear the things you say and I didn't want you to take me wrong, I meant about the part where I said "it's just my story and what I meant is nobody will believe another's story just in the telling, unless they themselves have had the similar experience.
so u must not take what I say as a personal statement about yourself. I am very pleased with your presence here, the way you do seem passionate and courageous to jump into PE. I'm not sure you read about PE, maybe you just picked it up somehow, I was very happy to see you there.

and what you got, was a lot more than some other people would get, but don't compare yourself to others, its totally going to be unique journey, all about you, so if u don't feel love and joy, don't worry about it, took me about 50 years to feel it, so shucks, if you do sooner, I'd be ok with that!
I don't feel much pul during a PE btw, if I get lucky maybe, sometimes its just a fun thing, some friendliness going around. a few hits. we try.

a little hint maybe about PE. if u get a little curious feeling, or a little surprise feeling, it's subtle, follow that and report it what u see. but if u feel nothing, thats ok. well, thanks for the boost.  :) it seems you might be the emotional type..as u can tell, i am too. keep developing yourself the way you are going, into the mental area, because I think you do have the passion to learn and now it's just the mental that you work on more, and the passion will take care of itself.
thats my little spiel today, I'll try to be kind to myself and you should recognize yourself through my eyes..ok? lol. I don't make sense I think!!

I enjoyed Nanner's story, but I felt sorry for the little girl got a spanking, but then you knew of this other world, I suppose it was meant to be, and in a way, knowing makes you one step ahead in being able to share this news. thanks. many do not know.  love, alysia

 "Enlightened" is an interesting word and phrase.   Lately, i take it quite literally.   I believe its possible for a human to so raise and speed up the vibratory patterns of the body physical, that it releases all that pure, but "frozen" light energy within it.   To me, what we call "physical" is just very, very slow vibrating and densified light energy or frequencies.    

 Contrary to what many Eastern and guru type figures say about "enlightenment" the full completion of this process while a person is physically incarnate, seems to be quite rare amongst humans to date.   It seems many more nonphysical consciousnesses reach close to that state of being, but i've come to suspect that at least one of our physically incarnate projections must do that while physically incarnate (if their G.S. became involved in with the physical to begin with) before our Greater Self can totally phase out of this Universe to become a full Co-Creator with Source.

 One person whom i'm fairly sure who did complete this process while physically incarnate, left behind what could be considered suggestive, but scientifically very controversial evidence for the completion of this process (the Shroud of Turin) and interestingly this also jibes with what some historical sources say about this person.  

 Then we have other unexplained but "coincidental" and seemingly unconnected pieces of the puzzle like Bob Monroe's account of the oh so mysterious "He/She" whom his guidance picked out as the most spiritually mature person living in Bob's then space/time cycle.   Or one of the best and longest practicing psychics on record imply that this person never really left the physical, just like he himself implied to his friends in his recorded statements.  

  Anyways, so yeah, i take the term enlightenment literally nowadays.   I wonder if its almost a fusion, Star like or type process?   I really have no idea at this point.   I try not to think about it too much, and just try to focus on my day to day life and work on certain limiting tendencies i have.    One thing i'm fairly sure of is, that a person must become PUL personified and completely balance the physical, mental, and spiritual aspects of being, if they want to fully attune to Source and the P.I. in a physical life, and for various reasons it seems to be harder to do in while one is concentrating their focus in physical.   At least during many Ages in and of the whole.  

 Some Ages and cycles, it seems like its much easier, and many more, collectively attain that vibratory state of being while in physical...but physical in those cycles, seem to be much faster vibrating in and of itself, then as compared to say our times right now and especially for a while before.  But that good ole Galactic Core of ours is definitely heating things up lately, and to "heat" or warm up, means to speed up the vibratory patterns.  

I'll never completely understand why some folks so insist that there is no such phenomena as faster or slower frequencies/vibratory states.  Maybe cause the right side of the brain only perceives in one color and some folks are lopsided to same (especially those Neptunians)?  Whereas the left brain aspect of us perceives the uniqueness, individuality, and qualitative differences in Creation.  Got to fully merge them to perceive the full picture.   And "love" seems to be the key to that process, it is the White hot Fire which melts different wave forms together, which fuses, and orgasms it all.    Spirit is Love, Love is Fire, and Fire is Spirit, and it is Life itself.   It is the Alpha and the Omega.

I like to discuss enlightenment too Justin, yet its another one of those words has started to get some distortions around it in the new age, just like all religions do..they start out with high ideals and end up being just another religion. so I take the word enlightenment and say, I will change what it means to suit how I see it, as just a lightening up. so I lighten my load and I don't worry either about whether I am or I am not because its one day at a time, so to speak, if I drank beer, the commercial says go for all the gusto in life, thats all we can do, as I believe this here person won't be repeated exactly so, so we must appreciate our own self, seems to be my motto these days. will come back to this thought later.

About the topic head, Pulsar seems to wonder about this thing called a void. so I thought I'd jot down some thoughts for whatever they're worth about the void, the nothingness, the black hole in the sky, also the surrender of self into trust, into the unknown god.
I'll re-read you Pulsar so I get it right. the first thing you said "it was revealed to you during your meditation that u ceased to exist, and that you were side-tracked into seeing this, so you seem to say because u were side tracked, it must be valid news.

What I think you did in this particular meditation is view your own deeper level of mind where you came upon your own belief and it expressed itself to you in this manner for your viewing. To go into where it appears to be a void, or emptiness is not a bad thing. Here, you saw your emptiness where the ego, frequently enough, we can call this a personality, rather than ego, yet ego becomes immersed with personality. so what I think you did is see the fallacy of personality as your mind touched the hem of god so to speak, the little self will feel voided out, not substantial, the yearning is in all of us to be more than we are, to reach fullfillment of our intentions. you noticed, in your meditation that you are not where you want to be, because simply put, we humans are indeed on a journey here, you may at times feel quite at home, then other times you may sense the void, that this is not your permanent home, and this may set up a type of nostalgia.

remember, I am rambling. I speak of my own journey, and also, you did inspire me to mention void, and I've known you to mention it more than once so it's one of your triggers I think. Never flee from the void state as it will not do harm to you, its the other end of somethingness is nothingness and the universe will rush into fill a void, in other words you attract to you what you need, when you do mediation, but often it is leading to another more significant meditation down the road as it's a continuing sequel of You.
the small ego or mind does seem to crash itself into the void without even trying, the amazing thing about it is the resiliency of the human passing here; we bounce back from the emptiness renewed with more choices than before as to what we will create in our lives. Have you seen the movie The Secret? I think you would like it as a jumping off thing into meditation.
entering the void is like suddenly being this humble thing. not exactly feel good time, but  it's necessary to empty out before something else can fill up the void and it can seem like a death. but its just death of a thought, a thought which wants to survive, but a thought can be annoying, so you can let it go into the void. I like Justin's new tag: "shadow, I love you! but not right now! something like that. lol.

one more thing about enlighten or to lighten up. what that means to me. theres another word some use, new age I suppose, the ascension. I think JC did ascend, to make the body cells energy to increase vibration point of lift off. amazing to think on the possibility, unless he just got up and walked away into the countryside and lived out his life peaceably and undisturbed amongst some friends. I really don't know, all I can see he disappeared from public view in some way.

I do know the physical body cells change during meditation, during the process of sloughing off out dated thought programs which ran our show. the body becomes healthier, heals quicker, increased immune system, it's easier to run, to dance, lighter on one's toes, laugh more, cry more, etc. something happens for the good to all levels of the being. the reason I believe this, is I discovered thought, negative thought can settle into the body cells, in certain locations of the body. the body seems to be a storage tank of our various problems to work out.
is why I like the concept of hemi sync, to balance the two hemispheres of brain, is helpful to get in tune with the subconscious side, become aware of what is in your house of consciousness, which you may or may not want to ask to leave now. I like to say, thank you for your service to me, I need to lighten up now as I am going on a trip, and where I am going, they will not allow me to bring too much luggage, just carry on's I guess!

love, alysia

 Hi Alysia, i feel the "void" is the Archetypal "Feminine" energy and state of being.   Or, to put in other terms, its pure Right brain not interacting with the left brain.   Source, Consciousness the Creator itself, was at one point pure Feminine.   That was when it was just One consciousness, all alone with itself... :'(

 Trying to become and tune into only void, is like going backwards generally speaking.   Yet some folks, those who are over polarized and imbalanced towards the masculine, need more of the void state, and right brain balance.

 Some, need more of the active Light of Creation, which is vibration, movement, and expansion.  Or in other words, some could stand to be more active in their daily life in relation to others and creating out from themselves (more holistic service in other words, like Yeshua did).

 Others would benefit from not going from one extreme to the other so much.  Like me, i sometimes swing too much and too purely from one polarity to the other.  Oy Vey, makes me dizzy sometimes.

Boy, you gotta love Alysia/LaffingRain.

She is a Doll/Babe/Sweetheart! She also knows full well I say that in the Grandest of meanings and not in a Vulgar way.
For I am Dood and Dood can do no wrong. :P
OK..OK..I can do a lot of wrong. HeHe!
However, my point is LaffingRain/Alysia is one of the Best here.  I am NOT saying she is 'better' than anyone else either.
I glad to see that she is a Moderator. Is that new? I don't remember her as a Mod all that long ago.
If it is new then GOOD! This place needed some Mods and she is very fair in that regard.

I do not know much about The Void.  (outside other then reading about it)
My few so-called 'travels' that I can remember anyways have been dark though.
They have been during the nightime so I do not know if that has any bearing or not.

I try to ask for LIGHT but, to no avail ....yet! For I am still a n00b.<sigh>
I also try to not 'fear' or 'freak out'. Easier said then done.
Once I finally 'get out' I am shocked and damn(<--Quit changing my REAL term I used...it is not THAT bad) it I forget what I had planned to do.
So I end up 'winging it' on the fly....literally too...I FLY! hehe! To try to 'remember' what I wanted to do.
While cruising around anyways....

However, I have no memory of any black/dark/empty VOID of anykind.

thats interesting Justin about the void in the beginning was feminine polarity, do u have source material to study this concept? or is this from your meditation?

I always thought of the creator as both polarities right from the beginning, however, I cannot conceive of a beginning for creator for the same reason i cannot conceive of an ending when thinking of infinity.
but a receptive polarity lined up next to the void idea does have a sort of logic to it, at the same time I was not considering a void to be intelligent cosmic stuff, so did not think of pure energy to be polarized in any specific direction.

I would go forth with the concept that polarization composites of soul essence is both female and male upon the higher developed planes, and that dividing spirit into gender features here on this physical level is for our soul progressions and singular choices of which to express through the body, but in the end, gender preferences are put aside like a role, like outworn clothing, and man/woman joins up with to be one producing an enlightened PUL emanation, if they could just stop beating each other up in the process. lol.   you seem to be doing well these days Justin.

thanks for your support Dood. I don't officially moderate in this room. just the book forums. people seem to moderate themselves over time, as well we have some very fine folks here with a natural talent for sorting out the occassional rant here. I have had a few rants I'm sorry to say, but sometimes it really helps if you know someone will just say, we hear you, and thats all they need to say.

I too have never actually encountered the void, which I liken to black holes in space. I have encountered a sort of loss of ego in a state of nothingness, but while the ego is merged or dissoluted for a minute or an hour, it's curious how it all comes back together and feels even like everything is fitting together better.
flying is like getting your sea legs out there Dood? isn't a great feeling when you're flying? love, alysia

Hi Pulsar-  The "six months" figure is Swami Sivananda's, but I tend to agree, based on what I've seen my friends do. Maybe I should've been one of them ...

Of course you find "nothing". That's the message. And yet, in spite of "nothing", you were there to see it and experience it. That's the essence of what you were discovering. When this clutter is cleared away, you'll still be there, and there will still be nothing. There always was. That's why there is anything, because if it weren't for nothing,  nothing could be, so there's nothing. (The Prajanaparamita Sutra goes into exquisite detail about this. - You might be interested in having a look.)

I'm firmly convinced that everyone has, in some form, all the usual experiences of enlightenment, regardless of whether they meditate or not.  The problem seems to be recognition and perception, especially through the cloud of presuppositions. We have a transcendental experience, and then we often muck it up by seeking mundane explanations and convoluted reasons, rather than simply having an experience. But it seems that everyone has the opportunity to  experience all those exotic states. Since you've started meditation, you've started to have exotic experiences, as expected. And they are leading you to the ultimate realization of your own nature, as expected. That's nothing. And having nothing is really something, hmm? Looks OK to me. :)

dave

you just said something perfect Dave  :) everything just fell into place; I'm reminded that the place of nothing is perfect because it seems to be the point of creation.

love, alysia

hi Alysia-
Interesting remark - I wonder if you mean we start with nothing - perfect potentiality - and because of the potential nature we evoke the world in which we live. Or is it that having mastered the arts of life, we return to our primordial state because it all adds up to whatever we started with, which is less than something? I'm not too sure that there's much point to life other than God's curiosity.

Seems to me that  God sits back there in the nothing and by virtue of her ultimate nature she bursts forth in leaf and flower and sends forth a universe. (Sounds like the aftermath of a bad dinner.) Then, wanting to find out what it feels like to live in such a universe he decides to become one of the people living there. And that means that he has to seed and populate the universe, and that requires using little bits of himself to populate the place. And finally one of them gets the message and becomes aware and looks around and discovers reality.  And then dies, returns with all that information , and finds out that this is all a big dream, and we are the dreamers, and we are the dream, and it all boils down to God getting bored about sitting there being aware of nothing.

Viewed from that perspective, we probably wouldn't be here if they had a Nintendo that could operate in hyperspace so God wouldn't get bored. ;-)

dave

to quote Alan Watts he says god so loves a surprise! what god likes to do is play peek a boo as he likes to find himself.

I asked my son in law why are you wanting to climb yonder mountain? being of wisdom that alludes me, he said "because it's there."

I once was young and miserable. take me home god I said. this place sucks. and god said you want to be nothing? I said sounds good to me. god spoke again and said, its ok, I will let you be nothing, but first see the speck of lint floating in the air?
see how it blows back and forth taken by the currents of air. that is you my child, that is what I will let you experience.
I smiled and said but the lint dust in the air, it cannot have a child, or get married and learn of love, it cannot feel a thing, it cannot have hope, it is just blown around by forces not under it's control!

and god smiled and we both smiled, the depression was lifted and things always looked better after a good nights sleep.

then somebody made a song called all we are is dust in the wind, and I grew sad and knew it was true, we are dust in the wind too, for we are all of the things around us that we think are separate objects and we are the high mountain that we climb.

then I knew my sadness was dust in the wind too, then I knew I was a fragment of god pretending to have a self separate from god.

:)  Einstein quote: Imagination is more important than knowledge

LaffingRain wrote on Dec 16^th, 2007 at 2:36pm:

thats interesting Justin about the void in the beginning was feminine polarity, do u have source material to study this concept? or is this from your meditation?

 Hi Alysia.  I probably use the terms "void" and Feminine a bit different than some.  To some void means, "nothingness" (there is no such thing as nothingness, and never was).  I don't use it in that sense, i use in the sense of passive potentiality. Yin/Feminine is passivity, receptivity, feeling, observing, yielding, attracting, etc.

 I got the above, void and feminine thing from a mix of sources, but more so from intuition and going within.   I first started thinking about all this Yin-Yang in relation to Source and Creation stuff when i first hit puberty.   At that point, it was more half unconscious sensing, more vague, unsure.   Later on studying metaphysics, astrology, and the like, especially when i came upon the Cayce readings, it all gelled along with my intuition.  

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I always thought of the creator as both polarities right from the beginning, however, I cannot conceive of a beginning for creator for the same reason i cannot conceive of an ending when thinking of infinity.

 You're totally right, there was no beginning for the Creator itself and that's where eternity and infinity comes in.   But, because Source was first polarized to the Feminine within self, and then later polarized to the Yang/active does not detract from its eternal, infinite nature.   That masculinity was there to begin with, but only as a passive potential.   It became actualized, once it moved, vibrated within self.   This movement and first vibration, is what caused "Creation" to be formed.   The Feminine/Yin aspect of Source is still there, and acts as a balance in Creation and in our Souls.  It's very important and necessary, and yet we are meant to be more active, like the Creator itself.  

Feminine/Yin corresponds to when Source was just One Consciousness, all alone unto itself.  It was a non-fulfilling state to be in, and in a sense you could say that Source was "unhappy" in this state of stillness...  So it did something about it, and became active.   In becoming active, chaos then Light was manifested.   Chaos allowed for the differences and uniqueness of all its various parts to come into manifestation.  No two souls are exactly like, just as no two blades of grass are exactly alike.

 Here is an interesting Cayce reading which connects with this:  "There is an (astrological) influence from without self of a nature that self may be in accord with or in opposition to; for all entities realize they in themselves are both positive and negative influences, and the First Cause--or the Spirit--must of necessity within itself be likewise, yet more positive than negative, for it attracts with attraction and repels with rebellion of that same activity of which every entity is a part."

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but a receptive polarity lined up next to the void idea does have a sort of logic to it, at the same time I was not considering a void to be intelligent cosmic stuff, so did not think of pure energy to be polarized in any specific direction.

 Within Source and within the P.I. it's not anymore.  Yet we find our Souls and our material expressions are polarized and imbalanced.   We left that perfect balance and merging of Source, and our finding our way back to Wholeness and that state of perfect balance/merging via and through what Bruce calls PUL.   PUL is the Light of Creation, its what connects every different and unique consciousness together.  It contains both attraction and repulsion at the same time.  Attraction allows for the state, reality, and awareness of Oneness, and repulsion allows for the state, reality, and awareness of self awareness, individuality and uniqueness.  Both now, will always exist in a perfect balance within the Creator, and yet as Cayce's source mentioned, in some ways the Creator is more positive than negative (this interaction between the two is what manifests what some have called "Relativity").  

 This is because its ever expanding through us, its creations.   Expansion and movement is positivity, but positive interacting with and being balanced out by the negative/passive/still expression of energy and consciousness.  

 This is probably why Yeshua oft referred to Source as "Father", because its the active part of Source which created his original Spirit Spark (the P.I.), and Creation.   Even Bruce's interactions with the P.I., well how did the P.I. refer to its Creator?   As "Father".   But creation and creating contains both expressions within.    You cannot create truly without having that balance of Yin, without knowing your Oneness with the All, without being able to Feel.   So while its not active in and of itself, its the necessary balance for active creation, see?

Here is a couple more Cayce excerpts which relate to this: "The life or spiritual or creative forces are positive (primarily speaking), and the body-forces in material manifestation negative (primarily speaking).  To reach that as to where they will not be as combative forces is to unify the purposes, the energies, the activities."

 "Unless a helpful experience may be presented in an individual's activity as a parallel, as a compliment, as a positive and negative force that may be united in one effort, it does not run true.  For opposites (polarization and imbalance) creates disturbances, dissensions, disruptions, devilment.  A union of force makes for strength and power."  


Quote:

I would go forth with the concept that polarization composites of soul essence is both female and male upon the higher developed planes, and that dividing spirit into gender features here on this physical level is for our soul progressions and singular choices of which to express through the body, but in the end, gender preferences are put aside like a role, like outworn clothing, and man/woman joins up with to be one producing an enlightened PUL emanation, if they could just stop beating each other up in the process. lol.

 Good way to put it.   I would just ask, how did this polarization and imbalance happen?  Did it happen first and only in the material, or did it originate in the Spirit forces as relating to Soul?   Perhaps the physical and "material" is only a reflection projection of what took place before there was even physical?   Maybe that imbalance and polarization is part of what caused the physical to temporarily manifest?    There are very deep subjects, simple, complex, and relative at the same time.

  There are some E.T.'s, who while they also originally took part in the separation, they kept closer to the God forces, and the evolution of their physical reflects this, they have even androgynous forms or bodies (yet on a much faster vibration than our own physical body energies).   Many of these are now fully God realized.


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you seem to be doing well these days Justin.

 I am, very much so.  In the last year or so, i've felt pretty constantly centered, intune, and more balanced than not.  It helped out a lot that i finally became serious and disciplined in regards to my Virgo North Node issues.  You seem to be doing well as well, guess California is doing you some good?  

 I'm going to be visiting Cali sometime in Summer.  Probably gonna hang out with someone here from this site a bit, as well as visiting family near the San Fran area.  

 Take care, and much love to and for you Alysia.   While i said some critical words to you somewhat recently, i dropped all hurts and anger towards you a couple of years or so ago.   I now try to more concentrate on the good/constructive in others, and i see a lot of that in you, always did really, but for a time i was very unentered because of so many challenging things happening in my life at the same time and i somewhat took that out on you for a bit, and held hurt.  

 In the future, feel free to speak critically on my overt actions and behaviors that you can see, i honestly don't mind, but please for your sake more than my own , don't critically speak on what you perceive to be my inner intents and heart.  This is rather hard to read or actually perceive via typed words on the I-net, unless one is attaining to that realization of being able to perfectly attune to any other consciousness and/or to the all.   Words and what people say on the outside, rarely are a pure reflection of what's really going on in the inside.    

 I've met some (plenty more so) who would smile, shake your hand, say very nice and supporting words to or about you, and then try to stab you in the back a moment later if it benefited or suited them.  Truly sincere and honest people are still yet somewhat rare in the world, though most are not as extreme as the above example i just gave.  

LaffingRain wrote on Dec 17^th, 2007 at 2:26pm:

to quote Alan Watts he says god so loves a surprise! what god likes to do is play peek a boo as he likes to find himself. I asked my son in law why are you wanting to climb yonder mountain? being of wisdom that alludes me, he said "because it's there." I once was young and miserable. take me home god I said. this place sucks. and god said you want to be nothing? I said sounds good to me. god spoke again and said, its ok, I will let you be nothing, but first see the speck of lint floating in the air? see how it blows back and forth taken by the currents of air. that is you my child, that is what I will let you experience. I smiled and said but the lint dust in the air, it cannot have a child, or get married and learn of love, it cannot feel a thing, it cannot have hope, it is just blown around by forces not under it's control! and god smiled and we both smiled, the depression was lifted and things always looked better after a good nights sleep. then somebody made a song called all we are is dust in the wind, and I grew sad and knew it was true, we are dust in the wind too, for we are all of the things around us that we think are separate objects and we are the high mountain that we climb. then I knew my sadness was dust in the wind too, then I knew I was a fragment of god pretending to have a self separate from god. :)  Einstein quote: Imagination is more important than knowledge

I have nothing to add really to this post except it reminded me of our son when he was 4-5 years old.
That song was playing on the car radio and he asked us this: "How can you Dust the Wind?"  It was in the sense of dusting objects in your house when cleaning....called dusting.  Mrs Dood and I still get a kick and a big chuckle out of that to this very day.
Our son was trying to figure out this dilemma of actualy trying the function of Dusting The Wind.  hehe! Guess you had to be there.

And then there's the case in which the pastor had just delivered a hell fire and brimstone speech that emphasized his crowning sentence, capturing all our human frailty and inferiority in a single phrase, "We are but dust."

The congregation was silent as the words sunk in. Then, somewhere back in amongst the congregation, a little girl's voice was heard, "Mommy, what is butt dust?"

d

butt dust...I heard that one before dave but it still makes me laff
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/spiritvideo/Alysia/myspace2/myspace3/NoWay.png good one Dood. I see you have thinker on your hands.