Here is a conversation(mostly one sided) between me and my friend.

He asked the question: Do animals have souls?

Outofbodydude:

Yes my friend. Animals have souls. But what are souls? Souls are simply the energy of consciousness, which allow us spiritual beings to have an earthly existence in a host body for a temporary amount of time for the purpose of spiritual growth in this world. When we leave this world, we shed our physical bodies and are left with nothing but our energy bodies-our souls, as most will say. But what that energy body is is the energy of our consciousness. When i leave my body.. you can say that is my "soul" going out and exploring. But what it really is is my consciousness. For example, when i am in the higher dimensions, I am usually not aware of having any body. I just exist, I just am. I can change the form of my energy body simply with thought. At the basic level of existence, we are nothing but consciousness. Me, you, the animal, that rock over there... we are all the same thing at the level of the source.

Friend:

My question to you then is, if a being exists, but isnt consciously aware of his existence, would it still have a soul? I agree that animals have energy but are they consciously aware of themselves and can they reflect on their own consciousness as you and I can? If they simply exist by a set of natural laws such as instinct, and cause and effect relationships, to what extent would they have a soul, I guess if you put it in terms of energy and consciousness, How conscious are they really? And some animals have capacity for reflection and consciousness to varying degrees. Dogs and other mammals would have a much higher possibility than say an ant or a bee, which are colonial organisms that are simply acting for the best interests of the group. Where do you draw the line?

Outofbodydude:

hahaha very good.. these are questions that can only be answered after a lifetime of spiritual training(or death). My feeling is that alll energy is the same, for it all comes from the same source, whether it is a bee or in a human or in a plant. The difference is the degree of awareness that energy has of itself, as you said. I believe there is consciousness in all things, and that all things play a role in this existence, regardless of how tiny that role may seem. Of course, the degree of consciousness in a piece of wood is going to be nearly infinity times as minute as that in you or me. I believe the line is drawn dimensionally. All things come from the source of creation. At the dimensional level of this source, consciousness of all things can be experienced, and is experienced, all at once. Once there, you are everything and everything is you. You are awareness in itself.

I believe that if you have any awareness at all, then you have a "soul", and after your life on earth you go on your individual quest, constantly seeking a greater degree of awareness of yourself and your connection to the source. I believe all life has some form of awareness. I believe there is a line between having awareness and not having awareness, and that line is the line of life. Cells, as low of a life form as they are, most likely have some form of soul which will naturally be on a quest for greater self awareness. I believe this is the purpose of life, for true self realization and reintegration with the Source consciousness. We are all on the same quest, you me dupree and that tree. IMHO all biological life has some form of awareness, and therefore a soul which progresses beyond their physical life. The non biological life energy in this world can be experienced consciously only in higher dimensions, possibly even only in the ultimate dimension of the source.

Lets step away from theory for a moment. When Im out of my body exploring, I occasionally go to the lower realms, inhabited by beings of lower energy. These beings at times appear to be big and scarey, but when approached, they run like scared little insects. They appear to have very low intelligence, and sometimes work in groups, such as the bee hive example you gave. I believe these beings are intellectually at the same level as the lower species you were talking about, such as insects and less intelligent animals. They appear to have and use all the same basic instincts, and have the same level of intelligence.

Once I encountered this being that looked like a giant aobeba. I sensed that this being had almost no intelligence at all, and almost leach like instincts, simply feeding off the energy of others. There are just as many beings of high intelligence in the higher dimensions as there are beings of extremely low intelligence which opperate off of preditorial or insect-like instincts in the lower dimensions. It could be that these lower beings once had lives on earth as a member of one of the less intelligent/less self-aware species. It certainly makes sense to me.

this was excellent post my opinion, I'm in alignment with this post as animals have ongoingness due to some adventures obe with animals I had myself. just briefly to add to the post in my own way from the time I lost my loving pet I'd had 13 years, which if anyone knows about how we can become attached to a pet emotionally, then you will understand the pain of being separated from that animal, in death, so it seems for awhile.

In physical reality, even worse the situation seemed, as Bisquee (humor me, this name is french, for bisquit.)

Bisquee was old and losing some of her mental clarity and the wind blew open my gate  and I never saw her again, also, to complicate it, we were in a new town. As a practictioner of meditation, obe and phasing, I was in search of her for several months in both realities. Then I found out to my horror this town was into stealing pets off the street and then they would put an ad in the paper saying they "found" your pet and would give it back for a reward. so I didn't know what happened!

I was pleased I finally made contact after a psychic friend told me she had transitioned and she visited me in her little spirit body, bringing her unique scent into the room and some guides said to give her a hug as if I could see her, but no, I could not see her, I sensed her at my feet and started crying. the guides said to embrace her and it was time to let it go, all my striving to find her. I knew this was so, they were right, as every day I was caught up in where to look for her next and couldn't get my book finished for the worry and fret.

I reached down with my arms and I felt something like solid energy, like a round object, it had the energy of love in it, coming off of it too. I released the pain of losing her this way, and saw her again a few times and she was always fine, there was a lady on the other side who took animals in when they transitioned and Bisquee had been placed with her care. although this may be a symbol of her well being and continuation, it was what I needed to have shown to me, as we are one with the animals, just as this post above says, we are made out of the same stuff they are, and we put our love into animals and love is an eternal thing. we help the animals evolve here on Earth by how much care we give to them, or if there is cruelty to animals, then their evolvement is retarded along with those who are cruel to them.

thanks for the post Dude. I always enjoy your input.  :)

Your right dute,When I was 14 years old,I was walking down a dirt road.it was dark except for a few lights in the windows of houses on my left.Then I saw a large white dog crose my path running in slow mochine acrose the road and on up in the garden.so anamiles do exist in spirit after death.George

Hi Dude. My sense too is that all beings are emanations of sort of consciousness. I'd even be slow to reject plants and even apparently inanimate objects as having no consciousness - not based on any evidence but rather from the idea that when the absolute and infinities come into play with our highly selective ways of perceiving and making sense of things it's very possible (maybe even probable) that there's lots around that we don't even recognise as intelligence.

The Gaia (intelligent earth) hypotheses is a case in point. Think for example of the possibility of a being that lives for billions of years, and whose logic is quite different - to us it would appear inanimate. I imagine too that consciousness goes down to the tiniest thing.

My guess is that there's nothing that isn't created by mind, or ultimately by intention or by God.

Robert Monroe I seem to recall wrote of encountering some very strange intelligences - in the sun for example. (or am I thinking of something else?) I think he also wrote about a cat(?) getting lined up to be reborn as a human.

Animals seem to definitely to survive beyond death - an old tom cat which was a very good friend when I was kid has played a big part in some of my experience. Perhaps I imagined what i was seeing, but he helped me to start to resolve some longstanding emotional issues by somehow releasing some sort of issue in my heart chakra...

If we go as far as plants and rocks and things though, are you saying they all have consciousness of some sort as being an individual? I mean every blade of grass? Every pebble? What if a bit of rock falls off a cliff - does it feel like it's become seperate? What about grains of sand? What about viruses? Or do you think any matter can be conscient to some degree and all this discussion of indiciduality is ultimately meaningless because we are "all one" anyway?

:D  it's really difficult to imagine that a rock is capable of consciousness that it is a rock. I can see a tree conscious easier than a rock.

there is a school of thought that all the heavenly planets are beings of intelligence and the rocks and minerals are like part of that being, if u look at the eco system, for every kind of animal, there's another animal which is it's din din. like an ant eater eats ants. ok, heres another idea, your body has cells in it, and those cells respond to central intelligence where the brain is. so we could look at it Gaia is a being and people and animals as cells of her, in this physical sense or organic, slowed down vibration.

then if the rock is energy too, it is such a solid thing, must be very condensed slowest vibration of all insofar as energy..what would a rock evolve into? a bigger rock? ;D

little mystic story here. 40 years ago I dropped acid several times during hippie times
and I wonder about the hallucinations I saw, if there was not a grain of truth to them? not that I wanted to see what I saw by any means, and sometimes I think the acid makes a sensitive person get even more sensitive is why I couldn't experiment further.
I read some strangers "soul" while on it and was not ready for what I saw morph across his facial features and I also was not ready for his expression to change back to a more congenial expression as our eyes locked on, but this experience shows that people effect people by their thoughts. then there was these trees..they came alive and seemed to move towards me, their branches were like living arms reaching towards the ground towards me, when I told them they were scaring me, and to stop bowing towards me like that, they obeyed me but still it was I, a person, gave homage first to them, then they returned the favor.
it was very graceful what they did like a swaying dance, just for me, and I sensed something a lot like PUL in them despite I was frightened, they meant me no harm but was a sort of welcoming gesture,still rather unsettling at the time. it was like god was in the trees and we now shared a secret of the universe, that we are one with the Earth and sky and all others.
I don't think a rock says to itself, I am a rock and I am being a rock, like a human will say, I am a human who is being a human, because there must be a difference between what is organic and inorganic rate of light vibration/energy movement? I am not a physicist, but just tossing my ideas around.

Ian, the cat experience, a friend of mine had an uplifting experience with a cat, got him out of a depression. Also when they introduced a mascot to rest homes, the people were all happier, less cranky, it was good for the whole place, the attendants also. animals sometimes save lives; you'll see a dog sometimes do this in a fire, or in the water; I believe in Monroe's book, it was a dog that had done some heroic deed was granted now to evolve, perhaps, I think it must be rare, I do know they are in service to us, as we are in service to each other.
some may say we are not in service to each other, but during an emergency situation suddenly heroes pop up everywhere and this is whats at the bottom of the human, a deep respect to help each other survive.

Is this even a question, I mean without light within a being it would not, could not exist. No plant no animal no human can exist without light, being part of its essence. Where there is life there is light. Where all on an eternal journey moving froward to-wards greater light.

My little dog came to me within a dream to tell me she was on vacation , because she was finding the evolutionary process to hard. I can understand wheres shes coming from and why she would want a holiday. But within this communication she showed me her past life when she was female human! and how far she had progressed. So all beings be it plant animal or human are to be respected as we are all from the same source, we are all one, for we are all light! Who's to say that even a rock or blade of grass has no consciousness, If my little so called dogs is on holiday! them maybe our rock friends are doing the same, they maybe experiencing the quiet of the moment, something we so long for.

Love each other do no harm and you will return to wholeness.

Hi Orlando,

When a rock breaks, consciousness in both parts can be imagined by using that holographic model, wherein each part has the full unity of the whole.
But I don't think the rocks have the same perceptions as we do. They have chosen to be in a form that is almost completely passive, no willpower other than to exist, and i would think a very low rate of feeling love due to their density. They are gaining experience/knowledge but again, very slowly. --Woops, well, crystals have different characteristics than say limestone, so I  guess I'm wrong to generalize.

:) Trees are much easier to feel the consciousness of!

Love, Bets

Trees have a quite incredible vibe sometimes, some more than others. Very old trees seem to really crank it up. There's a circle of huge redwood trees I know. (not native to this country - planted by somebody back in the 1800s) It's like standing a in a power station - there's a slightly discordant humming vibration that's for me almost audible...


This is just me talking but I suspect that when we think of the possibility of seemingly inanimate objects like rocks and plants having consciousness or mind  that our belief in the reality of our own separate, independent and egotistical 'self' probably blocks our ability to conceive of the possibility - our ongoing need to validate our own 'selfness' somehow makes it a lot more difficult to accept the possibility of anything that's very different to ourselves.

So called 'self' when closely examined seems to be a peculiar combination of a body, brain and sensing elements that quite clearly are a part of this physical reality  - which physical vehicle is the result of, wholly dependent on and related in complex  ways with every other aspect of the physical reality - mixed with other stuff that's fairly clearly not physical.

Even the physical bit doesn't have a stable existence - we change all of our atoms and molecules in a very short period (three months or something like that?) which implies that if anything is more permanent it's the mind, intention or blueprint that brings into existence and maintains the illusion.

While the body appears separate, it's in fact created as a result of a complex interaction of all sorts of factors from the surrounding reality - sunlight, start dust, other beings (food), plants, rain, our parents  etc.

Not to mention that it has no permanence - we're born, flower, wither and die in a very short period of time. (not much reassurance there if we're depending on the physical body for immortality)

Nobody seems to be quite sure as to where awareness or consciousness resides. It's clearly not located in specific parts of the brain, and may well be somewhere wholly 'offshore' in the quantum level zero point energy field.

And within 'me' there are lots of entities that themselves behave as though they were living beings too. Cells for example.

Add to this our selective perception and the fact that we can only know the output of our senses (which is basically internal experience) and we in fact have no direct physical knowing of our surrounding reality at all.

Our awareness can in fact shuffle quite happily between the normal physical and other realities. Especially when it becomes clear that higher states of consciousness access not just personal but much higher and more generalised collective and maybe ultimately unitary states of consciousness.

Sleep and waking are the obvious ones. We don't know if we truly experience sequential time continuity or not either. We presume it, but in practice it may be we're like a TV set switching from frame to frame.

So it's in my view pretty hard to say just where the boundary that defines 'self' actually lies. And if we can't quite decide what it is then maybe too it's a bit of a delusion - at least in terms of the rigid 'this is me and that is them'  distinctions we like to make.

The best that can maybe said is that what's me and what's not is very dependent on view or perspective....

Greetings,

Have you (anyone) been to a Japanese meditational rock garden and felt the energy there?
---those gardens with the flat white gravel lightly raked  and a very few large rocks seemingly scattered?
The intensity of the 'quiet' there can be overwhelming. I don't think it's just aesthetics/beauty
as I've tried to look at it as beautiful and it doesn't seem very 'beautiful'  to me.
So do you think it's the consciousness of the rocks that is noticeable there?

Bets

Considering the fact astral projection is real (I know from personal experience), why wouldn't lower life forms have souls? I'm not the only thing walking the earth with a spirit, so I think every creature has a spirit. And if this isn't the case, then whatever can dream has a spirit.

if God is everything and everything is God...  

Seeker has good summation my opinion "if everything is god (light) god is everything."
so if god is every "thing" we are included in the things..and so we are one with god in truth, and so I conclude the animals and trees and rocks are extentions of Infinite mind of which we live and have our being.
In that sense, what I discovered in obe, I was one with my pet, my personality and emotions subsided within her eyes, as I looked deeply into her eyes, I found only myself, and what I also found within her eyes was a deep longing to have her with me again physically, which could not be. emotions are important. I was told by spirit to get rid of my guilt concerning her departure. this guilt she would also feel, in her nonphysical spiritual being. since I would only have her feel good, I had to get rid of my guilty feelings that it was somehow my fault the gate blew open.

Hi Bets, just a personal note. I moved to a region has rocks underground when u dig to plant, pretty nice size ones too! they are like condensed minerals, and if we analyze the human body has copper, zinc, minerals in it the same in minute quantity, its supposed to be there. so thats one way to see oneness with rocks.
what with all these rocks here where I live, I have become fascinated with the sizes and shapes and colors and any day you might see me with my wagon pulling them here or there....I am generally not sensitive to their energy though, like I am with plants and trees..I am attracted to bright colors of a garden, but the Japanese surely have a nice touch with various gardens..much enjoy the cultural differences.

love, alysia

I've never tried a Zen garden Bets. Suppose it could be too that the vibe is partly that of the maybe 1000s of people who meditated there. A Buddhist shrine room has a a very calming vibe too for example, possibly for that reason....

Interesting stuff - I once had a person tell me what it felt like to be a lava flow. Considering the "lower life forms", I personally recall life as a worm. And I have several ex-girl friends who would say that I'm still a lower life form. There must be some kind of meaning here ...  :-/

dave

dave_a_mbs wrote on Nov 5^th, 2007 at 3:46pm:

And I have several ex-girl friends who would say that I'm still a lower life form. There must be some kind of meaning here ...  :-/ dave

lol!  there's actually a book called cosmic journeys where this lady who knew robert monroe does astral travel, and her guides lead her to see through the eyes and thoughts of a tree, a bug... it's pretty cool.  like the grass's thoughts were "i like people to walk on me, that's why i'm here - in areas with little grass, there is more negative spiritual energy" and the tree thought "i give good energy to people who touch me and sit under me."  makes ya think that the destruction we're doing to our planet might have a spiritual component.  

I love this topic of dicsussion because it's somethng that I have inquired about personally as well. The idea that a virus or one celled organism or gnat or an ant or even a plant has a "soul".

What I have always considered was that through discussions of spiritual existance and experience, there has been things discussed like orbs or what appeared to be primitive versions of spirit in contrast to what most know as human spirit which is a full blown, intelligent form of spirit or consciousness.

So I have connected things like orbs to lower forms of life, which sounds kind of funny thinking or saying....like who the Hell am I to call something a lower form of life...lol. But anyway, back to my opinion, I think this all makes sense. The difference is just levels of consciousness and advancement.

We all play different roles in the overall picture. I just want to believe that I am destined to be "great" in every sense of that word. Ironically, wanting to spiritially evolve, which I think is a part of understanding things like this as well as self awareness.......