As mentioned by Bruce in Voyages Into the Afterlife in chapter 6, there is a feeling of sexual gratification available through the connection with some spirits. Now I know with myself there have been times that I have met or been in contact with others when there has been a immediate feeling of sexual desire. Some times its a feeling of the act its self being compleated. An orgasm feeling without the finished product so to speak. The feeling of satisfaction and of PUL. Could this be the connecting on a soul or spiritual level? If I have never met the person nor had previous communication with her then why the sexual feeling? Are we connected somewhat like what Bruce mentioned in his book? Ideas? Anyone alse?
Joe

I'm not too sure Hawkeye, but I do know from experience that meditation can in raising our energy levels sometimes produce pretty intensely sexual feelings. These are in the eastern traditions ascribed to kundalini energy rising up our spine and through the chakras. (there's lots out there on kundalini meditation if you google it)

Put another way - the act of raising our consciousness to access higher states seems of itself to entail raising these energies. It can be very intense, and other times its not. I'm not sure if this necessarily entails connection with spirits (in my case if it does it's not conscious), or if it just happens at the same time.

Tantric techniques (and I'm not familiar with these) use sex to raise energy which is then transmuted before 'completion' to achieve higher levels of consciousness.

It's taken me quite a few years to reach the point where this is happening, although that may have been a meditation technique issue. Sex is the means by which most experience these energies...

My experience is that kundalini sometimes takes on a sexual kind of feeling. The reason is that the three lowest chakras, according to the Hindu system, are Muladhara, Swadhisthana and Kundali (whichis hooked onto the lower half of the Manipura chakra). Kundali chakra especially involves with nervous types of energy, Swadhisthana with sexuality and mutable grounding, and Muladhara with grounding as matter. When the kundali chakra is stimulated it seems to carry the other two lower chakras along.

In addition, of course, there are incubii and sucubii and all those interesting beings who want to play. Occasionally I've met people who enjoy having sexual liasons in their spiritual space, although I always thought of that as a poor second for the "real thing".

Hope this is helpful-
dave

Interesting the playful entities bit Dave. There's a view that this sort of liaison might create some sort of karmic link for the future. Do you know anything about it?

Hi Hawkeye,

I've come to believe that what we call our sexuality is energized by two souls' 'vibes' being in harmony with each other. (Not counting lust which seems to be generated by the self without any regard for a partner.) Sharing PUL begins the connection and PUL is powerful !

I think the desire is one loving soul's desre to know another such soul. If you were approached by an evil/destructive 'femme fatale' [smiley=evil.gif] spirit, I doubt you'd feel the harmony, and so no further desire would develop.

The power of the energy takes me by surprise because in daily life there is so much to consider and worry about. We can't approach a stranger and immediately offer Pure Unconditional Love like we can while OB, so our earth-bound potential relationships get off to a bad start before any harmonies develop. But OB there are no social worries, so the energies unite more easily, IMO.
Loving is our natural state.

Bets

Hi everyone, I'm really a novice compared to most others here, but just a quick note.

I've been raising energy more frequently through meditation in the last week or two, and this post came to me by surprise this morning as it seemed to answer my question. I felt the same feelings as you have described last night, all through to this morning. As you say it is very intense and seems to be lingering this morning, even when memories of my dreams are fading away. It's not a feeling of having been attacked by negs (succubus/incubus) but some unusually strong feelings of desire...

There have been times before when I felt the same, but when it was alot more uncomfortable as sleep paralysis took on and I couldn't move.

Last night I saw auras particularly clearly, I see better against dark than light, mostly clear blue, indigos and purples around people. I dont know if all these things are somehow linked?

I also see auras better against a dark background.

hawkeye wrote on Sep 28^th, 2007 at 5:57pm:

As mentioned by Bruce in Voyages Into the Afterlife in chapter 6, there is a feeling of sexual gratification available through the connection with some spirits. Now I know with myself there have been times that I have met or been in contact with others when there has been a immediate feeling of sexual desire. Some times its a feeling of the act its self being compleated. An orgasm feeling without the finished product so to speak. The feeling of satisfaction and of PUL. Could this be the connecting on a soul or spiritual level? If I have never met the person nor had previous communication with her then why the sexual feeling? Are we connected somewhat like what Bruce mentioned in his book? Ideas? Anyone alse? Joe

Hi Joe  good thread. its true once you get to spinning one chakra, the others start turning naturally, ideally, my idea about kundalini, and I'm no expert is to allow all 7 to spin in cohesion, at same rate, this causes ascension process to begin.

I met a Reiki master out there obe and he taught me something important, for he knew I had a problem with my sexuality expression. he said sexuality and spirituality are too close to try to divide them, as one to be good, one to be bad.
I was relieved to hear that! I have also read material on the spiritual planes that what you have experienced is quite normal for the habitants.

Gordon Phinn, who wrote the book "Eternity and How To Enjoy it" also taught me something in the book. He calls his sexuality his "charge."
He occassionally, he said will release his charge when exploring according to intuition of the rightness of it.
Struck me funny, as a born romanticist trying to recover from that  :) he did put it into perspective for me almost immediately.
as you must have heard, the female charge is negative, the male positive, when they release their charge, each become balanced the more so.
As Bets said, PUL precludes lust that we may find in the physical, we do not usually encounter predators of lustiness in the spiritual planes higher than the astral plane, as it is a case of like attracting like for the most part. Read Monroe's sex pile story, u can see like does attract like.

Now my personal story, if I could sell this, I'd be rich. I was with a guy impotent to teach I suppose spirituality principles. I'd just finished reading ACIM, which told me my brothers (that includes women) are one with me. that we are love in our essence.

and he and I could not consumate physically our love. then spirit stepped into the room. I had been thinking how much I loved him despite...no sex. A spiritual merge took place without the participation of the physical sex organs and consummation was completed through PUL.
so what I'm selling is the idea one can attain the afterglow state that sex provides on a 24/7 basis. imagine that!! lol.  it comes from seeing no separation between that person and your own self, so no conflict arises.

the encounters I had out there are pure bliss and consist of the energy body with it's corresponding spinning chakras to be emotional energy.  if the person and I would be conversing, we would simply be saying I love you unconditionally.
here on earth we would just say that love and sex has conditions on it.
Also TMI talks about getting "boost" out there..this too is a whole body experience delivered as PUL would be received, without it necessarily being associated with charges exchanged as in sexual exchanges. The boosts we can get seemed to be much of a finer vibration and tend to linger in the physical C1 as inspirational in quality to cause the crown chakra to lift its thoughts, or the mentality to think on higher matters of our oneness.

love, alysia

If it is all true as Vajra says, that by raising our leval s of consciousness will have this gratification effect become more common, I can't wait for 2012. ;) Not that the physical sexual gratification is what this life experience for me is all about, but when in Rome......
Joe

;) Bad news Hawkeye. It's said to be the same energy, but it's not by accident that those interested in spiritual experience are often advised to conserve it. Hence celibacy, tantric techniques involving non-release and the like...

wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2007 at 6:52am:

;) Bad news Hawkeye. It's said to be the same energy, but it's not by accident that those interested in spiritual experience are often advised to conserve it. Hence celibacy, tantric techniques involving non-release and the like...

very true for some of us we choose celibacy as I did in 1990. yet I must mention the first chakra spinning, the root chakra is not the cause of sexual addiction behavior. its just one of the 7 energy chakras which needs work like they rest to clear it of distortions in the mental areas regarding sexuality and love, both holy and unholy.

it is true that each path is unique here, and married folks can progress in some cases much faster spiritually than single folks, at least the opportunity is there to gain that balance.

for people that go out of body, these experiences are not looking like sex at all, but an overlapping of love energy into each's respective mental and emotional fields, whereas from my perspective I have experienced sex as two bodies attempting to occupy the same space at the same time.

I know thats sounds funny, but we are a funny humanity who does not sanctify neither love nor sex in this day and age, and so marriage here, should be a constant communication, but it is not that.
(looking to take a survey on happy couples, pardon me) also, humans have sex on their brain but no one wants to talk about it, like its a secret or something.

being a predator/host world, and the survival instinct being at the base of this learning experience, is it a wonder that sex has been placed in such an important role in our human society. Knowing that we all survive death some what diminishes its importance but not its pull on our need to reproduce. Even our governments have taken to sexualizing our childern in an effort to get us in the western world breeding and making babies.
Joe

hawkeye wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2007 at 12:03pm:

being a predator/host world, and the survival instinct being at the base of this learning experience, is it a wonder that sex has been placed in such an important role in our human society. Knowing that we all survive death some what diminishes its importance but not its pull on our need to reproduce. Even our governments have taken to sexualizing our childern in an effort to get us in the western world breeding and making babies. Joe

could u explain what sexualizing our children is? and why would the western world want us to be breeding?
love, alysia

When I speek of the Gov sexualizing our childern I really mean what governs us which is advertising. The Gov. allows it. By TV and poster Ads showing childern in hooker type clothing, walking around with t-shirts saying "eat me" or " sexy", stuff like that is making them sex  (target) objects. There is no line any more between adult and kids. Why must our western societies glorify this type of exploitation of our childern. Some how thay have parents thinking that its OK for their childern to be dressed like this. Why do we wear tight jeans? To show off our butts and to make us more sexualy attractive. Why do we let our kids wear tight jeans?

When it comes to the western world wanting us breeding it is really all about breeding more in the west. Most of know that the western world has gotten its birth control in place but in the third world and the east its hasen't happined. Therefor there are many more times the people being born there instead of here. When you have more people you have the capacity to have larger armys. Therefor more power. When you have the power allready and you don't want to let someone alse get it, you had better be able to raise an army. (Of course there is also the religious right and their birth control paranoia.)
Joe    

hawkeye - this is a long subject, but to the contrary i think our society actually safeguards against young sexuality perhaps more than any other society in history.  now young adults are deciding their own sexuality - if you want to blame anyone, blame them!  or rather, blame biology, because evolution and biology has created us to be sexual at a young age.  obviously by the time a person is around 12, they're able to have children.  our society has come to use common sense and recognize that the sex drive will lead kids to have sex probably around 16, and for 100% sure by 18-21.  if anything, our society has delayed and denied the biological process by saying that people shouldn't have sex until they're 18+, because our society has invented the idea of adolescence because people now go to school longer.  just a couple of generations ago, people were getting married at 18 or under.  in many societies, people get married at 13 or so.  

actually society probably makes sexuality more mentally harmful than it should be by making it seem like a "dirty" or "forbidden" thing, when it should probably be seen just as a fact of life like eating..  i was brought up christian and they definitely taught us that sex was sinful and you were only supposed to have sex with your spouse for your entire life.  this makes you feel like sex is always a sin and even by having sexual thoughts you're sinning.  

Regarding Vajra's comments that spiritual and sexual energies are closely related and that the spiritually attuned often choose celibacy,

Why do you suppose that is?

Doesn't it seem, theoretically anyway, that if that spiritual/sexual energy were in use more often, spiritual enlightenment would come sooner?

Just wondering,
Bets

Hi LaffingRain, just a personal thought to your question: I think we're constantly bombarded with images of the perfect family (especially on the media) so it sends us the message that, having children, per se, will bring us happiness. I think it's an advertising conspiracy - more children equals to more future consumers to boost the economy...

Maybe that's my rather cynical childfree side talking, but I find the negatives far outweigh the few positive advantages I can think of, in bringing forth another human being into the world that we live in today.   :-/

The karmic reaction to this kind of thng is that we become more attached to the physical and spiritual  embodiments in which we can interact sexually. That's neither good nor bad.

Of course, if you want to stop the cycle that leads from death to death, there are other things that one might be attracted to instead of sex, since sex is generally how we got into this in the first place.

One of the Eastern classics points out that the usual thing is that we get interested in seeing our parents-to-be engaged in sexual intercourse, and as we are excited and thrilled, we "get in between them" in an effort to more fully experience their sexual ecstacy, and are trapped in the womb thereafter. Sounds like a kinky routine to me, but somethng like that would appear to be ultimately valid.

Makes me think that maybe I should be more careful of the things I do in private. Like the whole world is watching.  ;-)
dave

dave_a_mbs wrote on Oct 3^rd, 2007 at 3:17pm:

One of the Eastern classics points out that the usual thing is that we get interested in seeing our parents-to-be engaged in sexual intercourse, and as we are excited and thrilled, we "get in between them" in an effort to more fully experience their sexual ecstacy, and are trapped in the womb thereafter. Sounds like a kinky routine to me, but somethng like that would appear to be ultimately valid. Makes me think that maybe I should be more careful of the things I do in private. Like the whole world is watching.  ;-) dave

Good grief, well I guess it could work that way maybe! I'm not qualified to refute it! Sometimes you'd think God would come up with a more aesthetic/elegant method of doing things. I mean sex itself is a surprising way to come up with of getting people to express intimacy and have kids, when you think about it.

On the other hand, if it ain't broke, why fix it? The current system works, and it does have some perks. - Maybe they should have asked us first?

d

 I've noticed that when i consistently, deeply meditate, i have very little of a sex drive, but since i don't keep up the consistent deep med. all the time, it usually starts to come back slowly but surely, and occasionally intensely (too many 'lees' there probably  :-?).

 Can't say that i have experienced a full orgasm via just meditation yet.  My wife has had a couple of those, one that i remember was during a spontaneous, so called OBE when she decided to not physically satisfy the urge before hand.  

betson wrote on Oct 2^nd, 2007 at 3:42pm:

Regarding Vajra's comments that spiritual and sexual energies are closely related and that the spiritually attuned often choose celibacy, Why do you suppose that is? Doesn't it seem, theoretically anyway, that if that spiritual/sexual energy were in use more often, spiritual enlightenment would come sooner? Just wondering, Bets

 Oh boy, this one has a long, complex and relative answer!    The over simplified version???  Sexual energy is a powerful one, and it can lead either to great energy loss or rather slower vibratory harmonics, or to great charging up and transformation.    And it may be that different genders, may experience it this somewhat differently beyond the difference in obvious 'affects'.  

 Women's bodies tend to be more yin polarized, and thus they need the 'yang' balance of active release, and this tends to charge up their energy fields more.  

 Male bodies, tend to be more 'yang' polarized, hence orgasming and letting out the fluids becomes an over yang energy movement, unbalancing their energy and thus leading to feelings of over tiredness, etc, and this is why when men hold the fluids though still orgasm, they tend to experience a greater charge up of their energy field (holding is a yin way or experience).  

 But then motivations, ideals, intentions, and other more subtle stuff changes the equation too...   Sex more purely out of lust and over attachment to bodily forces tends to decrease and slower the vibratory rates of both women and men (which is why so many who have a lot of more lust filled and/or casual sex, tend to have A LOT of the slow vibrating red shades in their auras).   But a sincere desire to merge from love, and for constructive purposes, can raise, harmonize, and strengthen the energy fields of any.   Oft times you get a mix, and so its not greatly one way or the other, but more neutral in overall affect.  

Btw, these are my experiences and intuitions with this.

 Practically speaking, i think some people nearing completion can use celibacy as a tool of energy charge up, if they are channeling the energy aright, and not suppressing, repressing, thinking negatively of, etc. this energy.   I believe Yeshua did this, and for a few reasons, one because it would have been quite irresponsible to be knowingly in that role and to have a family, 2 because of the potential energy charge up factor, 3 because he came specifically to be an example of pure, impersonal, and universal love to and for all beyond physicality, and 4 because he eventually found much more fulfilling satisfaction via merging with the Creative forces than in any temporal, fleeting pleasure in the physical sex act.  
 Yet i believe he also did briefly but intensely fall in love (in the romantic sense, after all he had a Leo Rising!), and yearned for one woman, but knew that he was here for more than that and overcame these personal desires for the greater good (always his motto and way of being).    But, its relative, and it was constructive for him in that life for specific reasons.  

 Doesn't necessarily hold true for others and their lives.    Nothing more beautiful or worthy than a conscious couple coming together, consecrating their bodies and lives to become channels for a spiritually developed soul to come through.    Like attracts and begets like, and oft times the motivations, the characters, the particular mix of the energies of the parents has a lot to do with the type of soul being attracted and coming through.    Particularly the mother tends to have a lot of influence in this, and how much (or little) balance and harmony between the physical, mental, and spiritual there is in her life around the time of conception and during early part of pregnancy.  

 Yah, so somewhat relative (and different simultaneous perspectives to reason from), and yet certain tendencies, patterns, and averages can be seen too.   Lol probably not any clearer huh?   Not for me either.  :D

Thank you, AhSo!

It is ah so very much clearer to me now !  You brought up many points that I hadn't heard before or or had forgotten.

Much appreciation!

Bets  :)

u guys are really openminded thanks for helping me explore the topic a bit, I find all questions and all talk useful to me.
looking at humanity and history we see we came through a victorian age into a sexual revolution age, and now we are in an age where you can change your gender with an operation and as far as I know, it's still the sexual revolution age except we expect clergy and presidents to restrain their urges, and if they don't they get written up, excommunicated, or discharged from office.
the first chakra, is the survival chakra also. if we didn't have sexuality, we simply wouldn't be making more vehicles for spirit to utilize on the green planet.

Hi Elanor, I agree life is nothing like what we see on TV, I watch forensics, thats the truth of what can potentially happen in any relationship. having children is not for everyone, but it was in my life plan due to I knew these souls before and didn't want to  be here without their assistance, also I provided a doorway for their opportunity for growth; they are grateful. Also, I find watching my twins is like watching the best sit comedy ever!
however, terminating a pregnancy is fine with my opinion. I'm not Catholic. its more an agreement between the mother and soul of the baby what shall be and what shall not be.

Hi Bets in my case spiritual enlightenment and expressing sexuality were not compatible components as it turned out. Celibacy was a decision based on the need for peace of mind. A man or a woman, and this is a biblical saying, are attending to their mates needs instead of attending to the affairs of god...what this means to me, personally, not everyone is like me, thank god! is that I suffered a pious view and forgot I had my own needs to develop myself apart from the journey of my mate.

ideally though enlightenment/sexuality should and can be compatible, as like I said, and like Dave aptly puts it, its a perk. its here to stay unless we all become instantly androgenous and start laying eggs or something.

btw, I want to ask god if he will make the man carry the kid to term, so I can relax and go fishing, yea, its only fair! if a guy can grow breasts, he should let a babe suckle them as well! by having a uterus inplant. there ya go!

heres what will happen in future: we have a gradual population decrease worldwide, the planet returns to a former state of Eden like proportion, souls find other habitable planets to live on, and spirits to experience being physical will find bodies in sacks under trees, all fully grown, functional, preserved bodies, and we slip into one of our choice and stay a few hours or days and simply return it to it's sack when we're done, ready for the next spirit to put on.
no more pregnancys. as u can see, it was no fun for me being pregnant, although I have heard some women really like it. good for them!
although I couldn't have survived here at all without me kids.

I read the above in Ruth Mongomery's books; it struck me as the truth, but its so far off and may even be an alternate reality, I'm sure it is.

love, alysia

Alysia and Ruth Mongomery said:
"heres what will happen in future: we have a gradual population decrease
worldwide, the planet returns to a former state of Eden like proportion,
souls find other habitable planets to live on, and spirits to experience
being physical will find bodies in sacks under trees, all fully grown,
functional, preserved bodies, and we slip into one of our choice and
stay a few hours or days and simply return it to it's sack when we're done,
ready for the next spirit to put on."

Sounds good to me !   :D

Love, Bets

betson wrote on Oct 4^th, 2007 at 9:38am:

Thank you, AhSo! It is ah so very much clearer to me now !

 Ah Geez, not you too...  I suppose that it what i get for picking such a ridiculous sounding tag. ::) :D  ;D

 Thanks for the laughs Bets, and for the appreciation, it is...um...well... appreciated. ;)

;) Sounds promising, even to a crude male!!

Joking aside sex is still a difficult and complex subject. Old fashioned Victorian morality has no place if we go for a higher understanding of what's going down but sexual energies are still very powerful, can do a lot of harm and get us into a lot of trouble. There's also the disease transmission issue.

It's a big factor in relationships leading to heart links with others, pregnancy is still a common side effect and has rather significant implications, and it as we've discussed has a role to play in terms of managing kundalini or spiritual energies as well.

There's no room for absolute rules - what's right is heavily circumstance dependent I think.

Much of the harm I think flows from the way the egotistical and consequently moralistic society we are hopefully about to emerge from has turned it into a commodity. (most societal rules protect especially the interests of the powerful) Women (mostly) sell it to the highest bidder or leverage it for power and influence while covertly wanting it, men (mostly) in a sellers market often treat it and women as a commodity and do crazy things for 'it'.

Monogamy based on ego, narrow morality and jealousy means it often leads to anger, sanctions, heartbreak and loss. Women and children get used by those seeking to make money off it, or get drawn into dangerous lifestyles out of greed/need.

Other selfish interests set themselves up as the thought police and make an industry out of the demonisation of those that step outside of social mores and narrow morality. (that's not to say that some don't need protection from the sexual predators that abound in our society too)

Selfish interests use ever more provocative advertising, while society still jumps on those who become addicted, or who have 'abnormal' tendencies. The resulting stresses and obsessions lead to crime, unhappiness and unhealthy behaviours.

::) It's no wonder that most of us are emotionally and intellectually constipated on the issue.

I can't help thinking that the free love ideas of the 60s had a lot of merit if applied using wisdom and compassion. There I suppose lies the rub.

Nevertheless a freer, less selfish, less jealous and  more generous and spontaneous attitude would surely eliminate most of the heat, lust and downsides that surround the topic, and enable the beginning of a more relaxed and much easier and more recreational approach to the whole thing.

Monogamy and the nuclear family it's fairly clear is a pretty dysfunctional model around which to structure a society anyway. (never mind that it's become an article of faith in some quarters)

I can't help thinking that in common with most aspects of living that holding back/avoidance out of fear, selfish concerns and narrow morality is not the answer. That like in most things the only way to sanity is total immersion leading to satiation leading to the topic becoming one that has worn off all of the hype and delusional intensity that surrounds it  - one that has come to be handled based on practical compassion and wisdom only. What ever it is that turns out to work...

All of that I suppose is still a few generations away....

wrote on Oct 4^th, 2007 at 2:22am:

Practically speaking, i think some people nearing completion can use celibacy as a tool of energy charge up, if they are channeling the energy aright, and not suppressing, repressing, thinking negatively of, etc. this energy.

 I should have also added to the above, the conscious or unconscious dislike of the opposite sex (or same sex if one is gay) as being a deeper reason beyond the lack of, or repression of sex in the experience of some.   Actually, those who really deeply dislike the opposite sex, can either become promiscuous, or prudish/celibate, and occasionally some will see saw between the two extremes at different points in there lives!

 Needless to say, to be celibate out of the above reasons, is not a particularly helpful, constructive, or 'right' way of channeling that energy.

  Lol, the urge to merge is quite 'spiritual' at its core.  The urge to lust is animalistic, and completely physically based and that which evolved out of collective error (extreme concentration on separation and separative ways)...

 Sex is not an easy subject to understand...it is both relative and a case by case issue, with some underlying absolutes involved as well.  

  There is nothing innately wrong with monogamy or polygamy, in and of itself, it depends on the inner ideals, motivations, and spiritual development and awareness of the individual.  

 For some, polygamy is a way to indulge and over concentrate on the temporal physically based appetites.  For others, it is more about expressing a spiritual ideal that is based on connectedness, for some (or many) its a mixed bag of the two.  

 Yet, for a society, for humanity with its physical bodies, as a general trend, monogamy is a healthier way for society at its current stage.   When more people collectively awaken to and start living Oneness in the Earth and are more conscious and aware in general, then maybe conditions will change, and cross gender polygamy will be the better way for society as a whole.  

 I have very little sexual hang ups.   Yet, i would illustrate a point based on my own life and example.   There are both men and women whom i have met, who i've been energetically attracted to, and in a sense desired to 'merge' with.    Yet, i've never been physically, sexually, lustfully attracted to a man in a physical sense.    I would have no problem sleeping with a man with whom i love and am attracted to on other levels, and yet i don't simply because the physical lust attraction aspect is simply just not there naturally.  

  Why does not the urge to merge, go beyond the mental, emotional, and spiritual with men, if i see nothing wrong with physically expressing that?  

 Because true, spiritual merging and attraction is not of the bodily forces, and bodily forces do not have to partake of REAL love.  What is physical to begin with, what is spiritual to begin with?  What are the innate differences to begin with?   One is super slow vibrating, and thus limiting, and the other is fast vibrating, and thus freeing.   As it has been said of old, choose thou whom you will serve, for you cannot have two masters at once and be happy or feel complete.

 I've been involved a bit with, and have observed some communities (read communes and intentional communities), and thus have been exposed to various modes of sexuality.   I oft see polygamy and bisexuality as an 'excuse' to indulge the animalistic body appetites to the hearts (actually the body's) content, and yet in some or in many, there is an underlying 'spiritualness' to it as well at the same time, because it partakes of a UNIVERSAL application, and that which is universal approaches spiritual.   Some people have begun to realize that we are intimately connected to all others, in a universal sense, but this doesn't mean that we need to have physical sex with every other person in order for their to be a realization and livingness of this Oneness....   In fact, the physical need not (and often shouldn't) be involved.

 There are ever two influences within us, that which is of Spirit motivation, and that which is not and in a sense opposed to same...   The latter having been collective and individually concentrated on is what created the physical to begin with and yet we still continue to convince ourselves somehow that somehow the indulgence and concentration on same could bring us lasting happiness or contentment????  

 But yeah, its relative.   I seriously need to eat something.

Greetings,

I'm not advocating having sex. :)  I only advocate making love, and I know the difference.
Making love is easy when OB or phasing. For that and for those who can, I don't think the time is generations away. IMO this opportunity was promised us, we are created for it, but with our victorian social conditionning for earthly matters, we have forgotten the promise.

As I understand it, 'making love' involves sharing energies simultaneously through several chakra energy centers, not just the first, and doing so with 'kind consideration' for your partner, with the result that all energies of both partners are enhanced and quickened,
leading to amazing unforeseen spiritual developments.

Unfortunately it's so easy to slip from love into sex (verbs). When that happens, the only answer is to cease and desist, and set the intent to stay 'in love'(see above)the next time.

PUL, Bets

(Why yes, I have had too much wine too early in the day---how did you guess?! And if you'd spent three hours with a husband who has Parkinson's trying to install a new porch light, you'd be hitting the bottle too!)

We have the awareness aspect of being, and the creative aspect of being. Kundalini seems to represent the creative aspect of being. Since the act of reproduction is a creative act, kundalini and sexual energy are associated while we are physical.

In order for reproduction to take place, some sort of sex drive needed to be encoded within us. A female lizard is programmed to respond to the pink throat of a male lizzard. A human male is programmed to respond to curves (Why are curves such a big deal?).

Human beings connect lust with their attempt to obtain love and oneness,  because of their misidentification with the physical body. If you believe you're a body, quite naturally you'll try to obtain love and oneness with another body. Lust confuses the issue, because lust could care less about what is loving and wise. Resultantly, things such child molestation, rape, porn, prostitution and sexual perversion result.

I believe that one of our main goals as spirit beings is to gain control of our creative aspect of being. Other wise, it controls us and determines what we experience. Sexual attachment is a problem because it causes us to be confused and limit our ability to find love and oneness spiritually.

Some of my energy is bogged down in my lower chakras because I haven't been able to let go of the attachment of believing that love and oneness are available in an "essential" way, by becoming involved with a woman I find physically attractive.  My spirit guidance has let me know in various ways that once I let go of this attachment, the amount of love and oneness I'll experience on a consistent and effortless basis will improve significantly.

Here is something I've gone through while trying to overcome my attachment. I feel like this is having an effect, but not completely yet.

1. It isn't possible for that woman's body to either create or send love. Love and oneness come from spirit and don't require the existence of a physical body in order to be.
2. It is also impossible for my mind's image of that woman to create or send love. Love and oneness come from spirit, and don't require the existence of an image in my mind in order to be.
3. It is impossible for a woman's body or my body to experience love and oneness. They are just objects of perception. Only awareness, which doesn't require the existence of a physical body, can experience love and oneness.

Another thing I consider is how my mind's image of a woman's body has very little to do with what a woman's body actually is. The image I have is just a very partial interpretation.  In truth a woman's body is a biological organism made up of organs, cells and numerous biochemical reactions. Even her skin, which seems so appealing to my deluded mind, is just an everchanging cell culture. Plus, why is one type of look more appealing than another kind of look? For example, why are sharp facial features often considered to be more attractive than less sharp features? Or why is one set of eyes supposedly more pretty than another set of eyes?

I buy into the above delusions because they provide me with an arbritary just pretend mindset that enables me to have an energy build up that leads to the pleasure of sexual orgasm.  The guidlines for such delusions could've manifested in various ways, they just happened to manifest in the manner they manifested.

In the end I don't believe we can have our cake and eat it. If we want to be able to experience love and oneness completely, we have to be willing to let go of the limitations that prevent us from doing so. Sometimes this isn't an easy thing to do. I've been completely celibate for almost a year now. It hasn't been hard. However, I still feel like turning my head when an attractive lady walks by. When will I ever learn? :)

Ahso:

Occasionally my spirit guidance will flash a star by a particular sentence.  It did so for the below sentence you wrote.


"Nothing more beautiful or worthy than a conscious couple coming together, consecrating their bodies and lives to become channels for a spiritually developed soul to come through."

HiHo,

I agree with Recoverer completely, although our POVs seem to differ.

Everybody is a channel for God's Love, and a clearer channel can focus and transmit the universal energies more directly. The force of directed energies can help clear more channels, in the partner and/or in the self. The source of the directed energies is the holiest of holies, so to speak, and anytime we use those energies without honoring the source, we are dishonoring ourselves.

Bets

it always concerns me when I see an attempt to connect faith, religion, spirituality with sex. One of the concerns is with the polygamists and what I consider to be child molestation and and multaple wifes. Now from what I understand, its their ticket or free pass into heaven.  Sort of a " just three wifes and a twelve year old and I'm in". (not meant to offend as its not funny)Twisted to me yet OK by them. Perhaps someone can explain to me just how by having a number of wifes and perhapps by some of them being childern, gets you into heaven. Does having more than one wife raise your spiritual awareness and connect you closer to God? Is there a person here who might be able to give me some insite about this or why they believe it. (Perhaps they are concerned with my one wife (at a time) rule?)
Joe  

What's a POV?


betson wrote on Oct 4^th, 2007 at 4:53pm:

HiHo, I agree with Recoverer completely, although our POVs seem to differ. Everybody is a channel for God's Love, and a clearer channel can focus and transmit the universal energies more directly. The force of directed energies can help clear more channels, in the partner and/or in the self. The source of the directed energies is the holiest of holies, so to speak, and anytime we use those energies without honoring the source, we are dishonoring ourselves. Bets

Further to my last post... Then there is the Islamic fundamentalists ,whom if I am to understand right , that when them blow themselfs up for jehad, they go to their heaven and get a bunch of virgins (sex) for them selfs. Is that right or is that some kind of propaganda from our goverments? Raised spiritual awareness (going to heaven) through killing with the reward of sex with virgins.???Huh??
Joe

Regarding what Hawkeye wrote, if a man believes he is going to be the master of the universe when he dies, will his belief come true? Not!

Regarding men who fly airplanes into buildings with the thought of being awarded with 75 virgins, my guess is that their lack of love is more likely to determine what their afterlife reality will be like, rather than their unexamined brainwashed beliefs.

Regarding men (men again?) who believe there is a divine purpose for having multiple wives, they are probably more interested in serving themselves than finding out what divine truth actually is so they can serve it in a loving and wise way.

hey you guys  :) I now know how to manipulate a thread for discussion  :D

I said to you all "why is it a secret that we seem to have and we never talk about sexuality?"

lol. then Vajra said this: .." most of us are emotionally and intellectually constipated on the issue.
___
nice summation u made before this statement..thanks Vajra!
_____  

hey, below is a stereo typical kind of male thought to sex: (my opinion as a woman observing men's sexual behavior within my world:)

part of Vajra's statement "....more recreational approach to the whole thing."

A recreational approach is where society is at present to sexual experimentation. unfortunately, this approach, again, to my experience is dehumanizing and demeaning if a woman is looking for love, but the guy is looking for "recreation." the problem is either both should be engaged in a recreational approach, or both looking to create a relationship which is more than mere recreation, so long as that communication is, where both state their intentions up front. perhaps u meant to say that wisdom and compassion be engaged in any sexual encounter. then I agree with you, but wisdom and compassion only come with age it does appear at present, unless one could be blessed with wise and highly evolved parents who impart their wisdom to offspring.
so we might instruct the younger ones to listen to their heart intelligence and not just their hormones, we might also teach the art of cognitive thinking when considering sexual liaisons, which is to thoughtfully consider all the possibilities in any given situation arising (pun!)  before humping. consider this in view of civilizations which have fell due to too much self indulgence, Atlantis being one of them.

Personally, I think Cat Houses made legal and respectable, could be the solution to some predator type situations in our society, to at least provide that resource to some of our society that cannot restrain themselves. call them young souls, whatever.
____

also u said:
Monogamy and the nuclear family it's fairly clear is a pretty dysfunctional model around which to structure a society anyway.
___
I disagree. The home, the family is where we learn to relate to the world from, it's our foundation from where we send the kids out into society. the schools along with the parents need to teach the kids how to make marriage or relationship work, how to get along with others in general, not just how to put on a condom conveniently located in the bathroom of the school. perhaps we shouldn't wait until high school to introduce human psychology courses. although maybe even now this is being taught in elementary schools or will be.
____

to sum up, I'm like you Vajra, I use this board as a place to develop my ideas and don't mean to make you defensive in any way, so I think u know I respect you highly and won't take offense anything I say while I'm exploring.
its just that I notice the difference between what a woman's needs are, and they are quite different from the man's needs, so the whole thing boils down to the sexes, and this would include our gay generation, that communication on mental levels is so important before physical intimacy.
dream on, right!  :)  
love, alysia

Ah so,  :) thanks for giving us so many ah so moments here  ;) u have much knowledge around these subjects; I can read everyone here and see how what someone said sparked off in someone else a thought, so this thread is hopping.

but do please injest some food! love, alysia

No hassle Alysia.  ;) For me writing like this is just thinking, not an attempt to lay down law.

Maybe my use of 'recreational' wasn't the right term. What I meant was that the way sex has got to be such a big deal and is so closely tied in with it's use as a bargaining chip, as an ego prop and as a major rule based focus in religious dogma leaves most confused and strips much of the spontaneity, intelligence, joy and life out of it.

We always seem to end up with either irresponsible promiscuity, or the constipation I mentioned. And a lot of grief.

I wasn't advocating the zipless f*** any more than I'd advocate the use of hallucinatory drugs just for kicks. You actually described exactly what I had in mind in your alternative interpretation of what i might have said - as something that might be ventured in a considered and caring way as a part of the 'getting to know you' in a potentially serious relationship.

But in a lighter, more loving, less egotistical and more exploratory mode than is often the case today. So that if the relationship does not take off or if it fails later that the result is not recrimination, jealousy, a sense of loss of 'it' or of a partner now symbolically owned - of having given all and got nothing back.

On the nuclear family. It's clear that kids need a stable home base. But I'd argue that older more tribal forms where people live in communities (villages) while working and playing together may be a better idea. (adapted to modern environments of course)

The parents are still the CG and lead in responsibility for the kids, but extended family and other members of the group can help with child care, provide support in the case of age or illness and a much wider range of influences.

Not to mention that couples have more space - they don't have to be in each other's faces every minute of the day, there's scope for close friendships and relationships but in controlled circumstances outside of the family and so on. Not to mention that if it fits the needs of all there may be scope for sexual relationships outside of the couple.

There's something incredibly lonely about the modern nuclear family -  about the associated isolation, and the legal, behavioural and expectation driven straightjacket it imposes.

Especially later on when relationships cool down but a lot of care still exists  - out of fear of making the all or nothing total break that society demands they end up locked together and driving each other nuts. When perhaps a lighter, more middle of the road arrangement might have been a better idea...

But it's just musing. The real issue is not so much structure as consciousness driven. What you get is mostly a reflection of where people are on stuff. Things will always sort themselves out if people are motivated to live through love, and have the wisdom to make that a reality.....

LaffingRain wrote on Oct 5^th, 2007 at 7:50am:

Ah so,  :) thanks for giving us so many ah so moments here  ;) u have much knowledge around these subjects; I can read everyone here and see how what someone said sparked off in someone else a thought, so this thread is hopping.

 Thanks for the kind comments Alysia.  I'm not sure if i have a lot of knowledge about this, more like i'm just a person who has begun to learn how to listen, and sometimes relays what i hear, which is something we all can do and inner answers are generally better than some dude like me telling ya something (doesn't mean i will completely stop, since i'm working on expression issues in this life).   I agreed with much of your above post too.  

Quote:

but do please injest some food! love, alysia

 Done and done  ;)

With love,
Justin

recoverer wrote on Oct 4^th, 2007 at 4:18pm:

Ahso: Occasionally my spirit guidance will flash a star by a particular sentence.  It did so for the below sentence you wrote. "Nothing more beautiful or worthy than a conscious couple coming together, consecrating their bodies and lives to become channels for a spiritually developed soul to come through."

 Is that a good thing?  Sounds like it.  Man, i feel like a kid again at school, "Justin, you get a gold star!"   "Whoo hoo!"

 lol just joking around with you a bit.  

 But why do you think that they flashed this for you?

For Recoverer,

POV means 'point of view,' referring in this case to the Truth/point of view that the source of PUL love is holy and is from God.
But God or The Source can't reach out and touch each of us with his finger like he did with Adam, so it has to be channelled through other means.
I think it's important to realize that craving for God's love, even if it comes channelled through a spiritual partner, is not the same as lusting. Craving love is craving union with Love. Lusting is seeking (uh-0h) umm seeking stimulation of just a single chakra, the lowest.

That's my POV sent with PUL.
Bets

recoverer,
I take it from your post that you don't believe that these fundamentalists that go around killing people in the name of their jihads will go to their heavens and have their virgins. Consider the distinct possibility that as powerfull of beings that we are, we are able to create our own situations in heaven, focus 27, hells, etc. Therefor due to the collective agreement of tens of thousands of people,even hundreds of thousands, this place exists within their reality. There is a place that these being are going to that they have created. Why are we, although we do not agree with their realities, to not recognise their knowens. They have no doupts about where they are going and what they will have when they get there. They are willing to die because of their knowns. As you have no control over my reality and beliefs and what my creation of my heaven or hells will be, how can it be assumed theirs can not be as they have designed. I would think that
Joe  

I've thought about the bst's. and the hijackers. #1. whats so great about a virgin in a man's mind? a virgin is just a gal ain't had sex yet. those hijackers are probably getting emotionally beat up by the virgins..think about it. eventually they have to face karma if they want to evolve, and it's my point we have this built in boredom monitor inside the mind which forces us to take responsibility for our own growth sooner or later, dead or alive. all questions about sex were solved for me after reading about Monroe's excursion to the sex pile where he tried to pull one of the lively participants out of the pile and the poor sap just kept wiggling back into it, so no retrieval there, but the guides who surf this area know that in time, one by one they will be retrieved to a better place as they start to question the repitition and the quest for satisfaction that does not arrive, by the very nature that the harder they try, the more it alludes them. thats an example of a hell zone. u want it, but u can't get it. and its not PUL, but all can be retrieved eventually.

hey Joe, I wouldn't be surprised at all, the virgins are fake, and in disguise, they are guides playing a fast one on the hijackers, they snuck up on us, right? now on the other side they get snuck up on too. speaking of different ways to retrieve the unenlightened. bsts are probably full of fun and games and rude awakenings just like here

no offense Vajra, opportunity for sex outside of marriage is called swinging. this will always produce jealousy in the marriage and comparison of one person's fruit to another, so it breaks down trust. I've researched it. it doesn't work to make intimacy greater or love stronger. and also I would agree with you on one point; not all marriages or relationships are necessarily supposed to last for years and years; it depends on the individuals and whether the reasons they came together have been completed. if they're fighting over who gets the house or the car, they are still in a relationship that has not been completed, their lessons. I seen divorced folks who are actually still married to each other emotionally.

Think too that as Alysia says that bombers and the like may well initially experience the reality they expect because they create it in the early stages of the afterlife, but that as they progress towards rebirth and ego is stripped away that they are likely to become aware of the total reality of what they have done.

If they they can't wholly open to this, and as a result drop the delusion/part of them created by the conditioning that led them to do what they did (and the million dollar question we've recently discussed a few times is whether or not this sort of learning is possible at this stage of the afterlife) then it's probably off on another life to learn the lesson the hard way.

On outside sexual relationships from within marriage. I doubt that it's an option in the context of a committed intimate relationship (think it probably confuses energies - although the big question is whether or not our usual inability to handle a more than two way relationship is something that's fundamental, or that it's the result of ego and jealousy), but that's not always the reality of relationships.

Many get stuck in marriages where the relationship has in any meaningful human sense long since died - out of financial necessity, out of a conditioned view that marriage has to be for life, out of cowardice and insecurity, out of a lack of self love, out of fear of loony court decisions on alimony, out of fear of social consequences or whatever.

There are almost certainly basics about sex which make an emotional engagement with a partner inevitable. But that's OK - in a relationship that's died, that's not working any more it's time to move on anyway. So many sell themselves down the river by hanging in there when in truth its over.

Moving on may presumably entail leaving for a new relationship, or perhaps if circumstances force it to outside appearances staying put while having an outside 'friend'.

I think what I'm basically saying is that while it's not possible to engage in sex without commitment without denying something in yourself and risking hurting others, that it's the reality of how it plays for (all of) the parties concerned that ultimately determines what's feasible in terms of the various ways  that loving relationships can be configured and not vice versa as societal rules usually imply...

Maybe I'm wrong..

Hi Vajra, sorry I'm late for dinner..me kids arrived in town and I don't know how lucky a person can be to have such children..they put in some landscaping for me.

soo anyhoo, basically I think perhaps all of life is like an experiment and that may include, well, it must include all facets of life, sex included. just rambling, but for example heres a list of friends I've known and their respective dramas:

Dotty: married to a man many years, bore a child, he decides to become a woman, grows breasts, on his way to remove his manhood, he meets another woman and decides he wants to remain as a man. the high point of this drama was when his breasts grew larger than Dotty's, he declared he was the "better woman." arrggg. Dotty took the news pretty well, but she was a stalwart spirit who hid her pain well.

Sylvia: married and divorced 9 times, emasculates men without realizing it consciously, she is now single with 3 dogs and 19 cats.

Karen: seduced at 14 by gym teacher, she remains a virgin the rest of her life and never experiments with the opposite sex. has a relationship.

Gary: a slightly build gay fellow used to come to work at least once a week with a busted lip or black eye given by his lover, he acted like he had a trophy with each scar.

I worked for a porn magazine as typesetter awhile...typing wanted ads...75% of the ads I typed were guys listing the measurement of their organ, up to 9"...the other language I won't list here so not to cause shock but it was graphic and sick. business was booming. I lasted a year there; spirit put me there to observe humanity.
maybe to toughen me up to what goes on.

While my sister lay dying of cancer, her husband of 20 some years was rounding up a new partner and planning to move her into the house when sis died. she did, and he did. It didn't work out, the new arrangement, imagine that?
He goes looking for my sis in the afterlife areas, finds her, begs forgiveness, she declines, shes got a new beau over there.
she'll forgive someday, but not just yet...its really hard to die all alone while your husband is playing around. wow, humans have got the drama going on! my sis was never able to enjoy sex because her father molested her. the point is, even after death, relationships continue the same as they did on Earth with folks still trying to learn and grow and get over hurts and find out what real love is.

Gina: is neither of black race nor white, is both, looks white. she hangs in black bars and nearly gets raped while shes trying to find her rightful place. finally finds a white man 20 years older than her who is emotionally her age and its a perfect match, last I heard.

I did find in my travels a couple who are happy! was looking to find more like them and I know they are out there. he's a farmer, he names each horse and animal he has. he likes to stay and wants to die on his farm in Wisconsin. his wife of many years is a world traveler, doing this several times a year.

well, this is just a few examples of human drama, relationships. the body though, is just a tool for gathering experiences and humanity is moving along towards the fuller expression of our afterlife where PUL just is, and is not something to attain nor express, but just is, existent in the atmosphere and is the foundation we walk on, and shines on all the same, in the levels of completion.
I say let the body serve you, but don't let it's needs have authority over our lives and our dramas and our well being.
well, gee, on a high note, at least we have a body to express in!


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/spiritvideo/Alysia/pumpkinheadshell.jpg

happy Halloween, this is one of me kids, ok everybody pull out your kids pics!

That's a pretty fair cross section Alysia, your life has been rather more colourful than mine I suspect!!  :)  I'm in comparison (stable marriage, few ups ad downs but basically works very well) just a theorist. Not even an observer of the varieties that occur.  ::)

There's nevertheless maybe a core issue in the middle of all this which we've kind of brushed past. Is monogamy truly the optimum form for male/female relationships, or would loving multidimensional relationships be possible if ego/fear/jealousy/issues of 'ownership'/societal and other consequences and so on were  removed from the equation?

My personal sense is that multidimensional relationships are not really a runner without a lot of risk of causing hurt to others and running into trouble, at least at today's typical levels of consciousness. And that (at least from the male perspective anyway) this is the primary  reason for remaining monogamous.

But that if ignorance plus grasping egotistical behaviours were removed from the equation (selfish and predatory carry on that hurts others, fear driven clinging, and just plain lack of management skill/wisdom - a big ask given the stuff you describe Alysia) that all sorts of configurations would become feasible.

The outcome mind you would be a long way from so called 'free love'.


Thoughts, especially from the female perspective?

free love concept is not true enlightenment PUL expressing but a learning stage so I hear what you're saying I think.
theres this Jackson Brown tune I been practicing (almost got the rhythm down!)
and the lyrics are "if I'd only known what your heart cost, can we call it a loan, and a debt that I owe on a bet that I lost?" oh, there seems to be two, one steals the love, the other one hides.

thanks Jackson! there does seem to be two worlds here, one spiritual, one physical, but really one is the extention in the cosmic mirror of the other, so there's just one world with different folks focusing in on different viewing points, which exclude other viewing points of necessity to get our individual experiences that we came here for.
on this other level there is oneness already existent, so theres individuals, but also a One Mind we surf in which is PUL everywhere, like I said, we were born from PUL and return to this creative essense with our free will intact, less all the selfishness motives that we used on the lower levels, perhaps with passions still there but governed by wisdom gained in each life.

or like Dave here has said several times, enlightenment is achievable in one lifetime with concentrated effort; you don't have to wait till yer dead, in enlightenment I would suppose one begins to sense the underlying oneness of everything and everyone and it's not forced, but it's a focus point of oneness, through the desire to see and experience the harmonics. so thats how two worlds become the one world.

relationships on the other side of the coin, since the oneness is evident already, the merging aspects are a moot point; one is an open book on the other side, all is known what another person has collected in their earth travels, as it exists as color in their thought aura surrounding them, this would be like Spock mind melds..ah! thank you Star Trek!
Mind melds produce understanding which produces PUL, or more of it. PUL is also inspiration which is like a conveyor belt on the other side. so it is said "I was moved."

PUL, in the heavens is our natural heritage for one and all. retrievers move those stuck into areas closer to PUL by an act of love. it's like throwing a fish back in the water, the fish swims away, it would never forget how to swim.

Monogamy, right or wrong? both and neither I'd say. this is between two people and their highest guidance what they will make. every relationship is One. something is produced from it and contributes an effect into the entire collective Mind.
One does not need to suffer in a relationship for the "sake" of the other to have peace of mind and not be hurt. honest communication is the only thing takes away the hurt. if a relationship does not seem to go forward in PUL no matter what effort you are trying for. its easy enough to become a martyr for love just as its so easy to slip out the back Jack.  somewhere a balance would occur with open communication, even about taboo subjects, like, I have to leave because I'm unhappy.
open communication can even make people fall in love all over again with each other.

so its not even a question if monogamy is the answer or free love, at some point I should say, it's not important to declare what is true for another, just what is your own truth?

Back to ACIM, it taught me what relationships are for. I really didn't know. It simply said relationships were "to make happy."

if each partner were in the same mindset, they would be making each other's happiness the priority and theres no problem then. however, as a whole we are not there yet, because we all have these different ideas what makes the beloved happy! haha!  I give up!  live and learn! I'd just say do what makes you happy, just make sure you're not stepping on someone to get where you want to go.

love, alysia

[quote author=LaffingRain link=1191016668/45#46 date=1191935502]Hi Vajra, sorry I'm late for dinner..me kids arrived in town and I don't know how lucky a person can be to have such children..they put in some landscaping for me.

I am glad you have a good relationship with your kids  :)

soo anyhoo, basically I think perhaps all of life is like an experiment and that may include, well, it must include all facets of life, sex included. just rambling, but for example heres a list of friends I've known and their respective dramas:

Dotty: married to a man many years, bore a child, he decides to become a woman, grows breasts, on his way to remove his manhood, he meets another woman and decides he wants to remain as a man. the high point of this drama was when his breasts grew larger than Dotty's, he declared he was the "better woman." arrggg. Dotty took the news pretty well, but she was a stalwart spirit who hid her pain well.

 >:( what an idiot. If he thinks being a "good woman"is measured by how large your breasts are.. well, what can I say? Glad he realised he was just confused and stopped when he did, anyway. i know a 40-year-old who has decided he is transsexual, even though he is a married man with two kids, but I think s/he is a much more deserving case, even though it's tough on the family. Sometimes you get people who can function as a straight family man, but never feel quite right about theri gender inside and take a long time to decided what they want to do. I have even heard of couples staying together after the man changed sex, which is surprising. I also wonder about the legality now ! I am in the UK and transsexuals can now change birth certificates - but if they do, then what happens? We have legal 'civil partnerships" for gay people, but no gay "marriage"yet. Or maybe it's like the Catholic church where, I understand, if you were a married protestant pastor and become a Catholic priest, they let you stay married (must make the long-term Catholic ones annoyed).

Sylvia: married and divorced 9 times, emasculates men without realizing it consciously, she is now single with 3 dogs and 19 cats.

9 times!!!! If life is trying to teach her something, she must be a bit of a slow learner!

Karen: seduced at 14 by gym teacher, she remains a virgin the rest of her life and never experiments with the opposite sex. has a relationship.

? never experiments, but has a relationship? with a woman? or do you mean, she WAS like that but now has a relsationship? Sorry about the gym teacher - likely to have been damaging for her, and a terrible abuse of trust, a reponsible position, and normal human decency by him

Gary: a slightly build gay fellow used to come to work at least once a week with a busted lip or black eye given by his lover, he acted like he had a trophy with each scar.

..guess it takes all sorts... I wish people would not stay with abusive partners.. I sometimes find it quite hard to see why they do

I worked for a porn magazine as typesetter awhile...typing wanted ads...75% of the ads I typed were guys listing the measurement of their organ, up to 9"...the other language I won't list here so not to cause shock but it was graphic and sick. business was booming. I lasted a year there; spirit put me there to observe humanity.
maybe to toughen me up to what goes on.

I didn;t expect you to have done something like that! Well, like you say, i guess it's all experience. Sorry it left you with a pretty poor opinion of (those) men. Don't suppose you find the finest , most well-balanced, examples of the male sex writing in to porn mags though..

While my sister lay dying of cancer, her husband of 20 some years was rounding up a new partner and planning to move her into the house when sis died. she did, and he did. It didn't work out, the new arrangement, imagine that?

>:( what a bastard. How awful for you and your sister

He goes looking for my sis in the afterlife areas, finds her, begs forgiveness, she declines, shes got a new beau over there

she'll forgive someday, but not just yet...its really hard to die all alone while your husband is playing around.

You don't say  >:(

wow, humans have got the drama going on! my sis was never able to enjoy sex because her father molested her. the point is, even after death, relationships continue the same as they did on Earth with folks still trying to learn and grow and get over hurts and find out what real love is.

Yeah, I guess anyone who thinks we suddently all become really wise and sorted out when we die has another think coming. I am sorry for the sadness your sister went though and am glad things seem better where she is

Gina: is neither of black race nor white, is both, looks white. she hangs in black bars and nearly gets raped while shes trying to find her rightful place. finally finds a white man 20 years older than her who is emotionally her age and its a perfect match, last I heard.

Good

I did find in my travels a couple who are happy! was looking to find more like them and I know they are out there. he's a farmer, he names each horse and animal he has. he likes to stay and wants to die on his farm in Wisconsin. his wife of many years is a world traveler, doing this several times a year.

Glad to hear it! I am sure I know some happy couples too - I hope so, anyway! Hard to know exactly what goes on behind the masks people sometimes wear, and closed doors. It would be sad if we were left thinking it was impossible to find real love. I guess it needs many, not-so-common ingredients like being quite like-minded and understanding each other well and enjoying each other's company; communicating properly; having at least some physical attraction; not projecting too many expectations on the other person, or wanting them to be something they are not; not being too needy or jealous; appreciating the best in them and being able to forgive the faults etc

well, this is just a few examples of human drama, relationships. the body though, is just a tool for gathering experiences and humanity is moving along towards the fuller expression of our afterlife where PUL just is, and is not something to attain nor express, but just is, existent in the atmosphere and is the foundation we walk on, and shines on all the same, in the levels of completion.
I say let the body serve you, but don't let it's needs have authority over our lives and our dramas and our well being.
well, gee, on a high note, at least we have a body to express in!

Good advice, LR, and nice that you ended on a positive note  :) whether we find a perfect relationship or not the main thing is not to let life's shitty aspects crush our spirit, and still be able to love

Orlando

gee Orlando, its like your in the same room with me and we're talking.. :)

those stories are just snippets of their lives, I don't have their whole lives to look at so I don't wish to present just negatives. for instance, suppose that Dotty and the guy who was doing a gender change, suppose in another life he had been a woman? then u could see he might be having a hard time with his gender choice this time.

the woman who was introduced to sex at 14 and never tried a heterosexual relationship said it was directly related to the tryst with the female gay gym teacher. she didn't seem very happy but acted stuck with her lifestyle, so I mentioned it because all of this is humanity. we are very vulnerable as teens, I am wanting to protect young people so I thought it was sad. it was her destiny I suppose. being heterosexual, I enjoyed men, so I would naturally think she was missing out, but its not my call to judge her that she missed out. she met a gay woman and I lost touch with her after she discovered we would not be intimate, not physically. if its true and it is, we can have intimacy without sex, meaning unconditional love, she is not missing out on anything because you can't miss what you never had before.

I hope you find a very loving relationship Orlando, you are so sweet and deserve it truly! if thats what your heart desires of course. love, alysia

Thanks you Alysia. I think we're in the same sort of space. That it's what works for happiness that matters, not some societal once size fits all view. Ans that what works for happiness depends a lot on the awareness and ability of the parties concerned to act in the interest of the other and not get sucked into negative egotistical or unwise behaviours.

It's such a pity that society can't simply let what are often useful generalisations from experience be but instead almost always has to turn them into a rules to be forced on all. And will often take pleasure in watching an experimenter that's got it wrong suffer. Nya nya nya!!!! We told you so!!! Now lie in your own bed!!!

We're all responsible for our own life decisions, and if we get it wrong can't expect others to make it painless for us. (there would be chaos if there were no downsides - it's what keeps most of us honest) But love suggests that it's certainly reasonable to expect a caring attitude and a dig out where possible.

This sort of vibe makes it easy for us to be critical of some of the examples you listed, but actually it only takes the tiniest of hang ups on specific issues for us to end up in strange places. Not to mention that there's often 'good' historical reason for these hang ups, and that what we presume to be a mess can often be an important learning experience or even source of happiness or important knowledge when viewed the right way...

Perhaps to say the World was created on purpose, not just a big illusory mistake like some sources of information claim.  Your sentence can be interpreted to mean that there is nothing wrong with making use of the creative aspect of being, as long as it is done in the spirit of love and light.  


wrote on Oct 5^th, 2007 at 9:46am:

recoverer wrote on Oct 4th, 2007 at 4:18pm: Ahso: Occasionally my spirit guidance will flash a star by a particular sentence.  It did so for the below sentence you wrote. "Nothing more beautiful or worthy than a conscious couple coming together, consecrating their bodies and lives to become channels for a spiritually developed soul to come through."  Is that a good thing?  Sounds like it.  Man, i feel like a kid again at school, "Justin, you get a gold star!"   "Whoo hoo!"  lol just joking around with you a bit.    But why do you think that they flashed this for you?

Betson:

I agree with your POV. Love/oneness can be shared in many ways. Lust is a lower chakra thing.

What's PUL? :-?  Just kidding.  :)


betson wrote on Oct 5^th, 2007 at 9:51am:

For Recoverer, POV means 'point of view,' referring in this case to the Truth/point of view that the source of PUL love is holy and is from God. But God or The Source can't reach out and touch each of us with his finger like he did with Adam, so it has to be channelled through other means. I think it's important to realize that craving for God's love, even if it comes channelled through a spiritual partner, is not the same as lusting. Craving love is craving union with Love. Lusting is seeking (uh-0h) umm seeking stimulation of just a single chakra, the lowest. That's my POV sent with PUL. Bets

Hawkeye:

First of all, I don't know. Just speculating. Even if they met up with 75 virgins, those virgins would be imaginary virgins. Eventually, hopefully, they would come out of their state of confusion and see how empty those virgins are.  

Robert Monroe and others speak of spirits trying to have sex in a physical way but not being able to do so completely, despite what they want and believe. What happens to a guy who can't completely have sex with 75 virgins? After a while he might start to wonder.

Plus various sources of information state that what we believe competes with what is true, after we die. For example, say a man called himself a Christian throughout his life, but he didn't come close to loving his neighbor as his self? Would he get to go to heaven right away, or would his negative way of being have to be taken care of first?

I'd say they are willing to die because they believe they are going to be rewarded with 75 virgins. They also believe their victims, the so called infidels, will end up in hell for all of eternity. So obviously their field of knowns has nothing to do with love.

Regarding their victims going to hell for all of eternity, I once saw a man get interviewed who had his suicide bombing attempt stopped. He believed his victims would go to hell for all of eternity.  He had a really indifferent attitude about this. It meant nothing to him that his victims would have to suffer horribly for all of eternity while he enjoyed his virgins. Obviously he listened to his ego, not his heart.

I don't mean to sound judgmental. If I lived his life I might've ended up the same way. But when you wrote "they are willing to die for their knowns" you seem to be glorifying something that isn't worth glorifying.  Unloving behavior is unloving behavior, even if a person claims to do so for the sake of God.



hawkeye wrote on Oct 5^th, 2007 at 12:09pm:

recoverer, I take it from your post that you don't believe that these fundamentalists that go around killing people in the name of their jihads will go to their heavens and have their virgins. Consider the distinct possibility that as powerfull of beings that we are, we are able to create our own situations in heaven, focus 27, hells, etc. Therefor due to the collective agreement of tens of thousands of people,even hundreds of thousands, this place exists within their reality. There is a place that these being are going to that they have created. Why are we, although we do not agree with their realities, to not recognise their knowens. They have no doupts about where they are going and what they will have when they get there. They are willing to die because of their knowns. As you have no control over my reality and beliefs and what my creation of my heaven or hells will be, how can it be assumed theirs can not be as they have designed. I would think that Joe

LaffingRain wrote on Oct 9^th, 2007 at 11:23pm:

gee Orlando, its like your in the same room with me and we're talking.. :) those stories are just snippets of their lives, I don't have their whole lives to look at so I don't wish to present just negatives. for instance, suppose that Dotty and the guy who was doing a gender change, suppose in another life he had been a woman? then u could see he might be having a hard time with his gender choice this time.

Speaking as a transgendered woman, but one who appears to the rest of the world as a family man and father, it's hard to convey the unfulfilled yearning one feels in this position.  There's no frivolity in it at all.  When I say, "I am a woman," it probably appears absurd to someone looking at me, but it comes from a place that is so utterly true for me.

I can't really fathom anything that would make me say I was a better woman than my wife based on cup size.  There are things no person raised a man will ever understand about the nature of being woman (in this life, that is).   Those unknowable experiences give me a sense of loss.

perhaps Aeyna, you can look at it this way; each life is a drop in the bucket, once we get home, we have access to all of them for study, but more than that prospect, here and now we can tap into those akashic records.
so if we have eternity to become all that we want to be and to experience all that we wish to, you should not lament that you will never have certain experiences.
besides, what I really wanted to say is we've already pointed out here on this thread we can become fully enlightened, to experience the fullness of PUL totally without the use of the body as in physical expression of sexual dimension, so the body is really nothing. Nothing but a sensory apparatus for the use of spirit.

thats why ACIM calls the body an illusion. because its not the real intrinsic you.

the you that continues. I believe you when you say you are a woman. It sounds like a difficult life that you chose to grow through. its ok nowdays for a man to express the softer qualities of a woman, it's ok for you to change your mind..we women have that right u know!  :) maybe after all, its time we put all roles aside and just try to tell our truth knowing ahead of time, a blow or two might come our way, but like the Eagles said in "Take it Easy" just find a place to take your stand and take it easy.

love, alysia

LaffingRain wrote on Oct 10^th, 2007 at 5:57pm:

so if we have eternity to become all that we want to be and to experience all that we wish to, you should not lament that you will never have certain experiences.

Oh, I agree with that wholly.  A psychic who gave me a past life regression told me that I was reluctant to take on this incarnation because i had "perfected" the female side and that my goal here in this life was to manage the transition back to balance.    It sounded a little pat to me, to be honest.  Not that taht means it's not true.

Consciously, in this life, I feel the powerful urge to align my thoughts and my external body. I have glimpse of PUL where I am beyond this, and PUL makes the yearning small in comparison, but in my more "solid" and body-focused mental states (much more common), I feel deep, profound need to be woman.



Quote:

the you that continues. I believe you when you say you are a woman. It sounds like a difficult life that you chose to grow through. its ok nowdays for a man to express the softer qualities of a woman,

It's true that I need not act totally against my nature, which is very nice and makes thinks flow more easily.



Quote:

it's ok for you to change your mind..we women have that right u know!  :)

Well, that just put a big smile on my face!

love

Aeyna wrote on Oct 10^th, 2007 at 5:43pm:

LaffingRain wrote on Oct 9th, 2007 at 11:23pm: gee Orlando, its like your in the same room with me and we're talking.. :) those stories are just snippets of their lives, I don't have their whole lives to look at so I don't wish to present just negatives. for instance, suppose that Dotty and the guy who was doing a gender change, suppose in another life he had been a woman? then u could see he might be having a hard time with his gender choice this time. Speaking as a transgendered woman, but one who appears to the rest of the world as a family man and father, it's hard to convey the unfulfilled yearning one feels in this position.  There's no frivolity in it at all.

I don;t think there is either. I was just amazed at the insensitivity of the person who thought someone was a "better woman"becasue of their boob size. That sounds more like the less admirable kind of man thinking than someone I would consider feminine. I think self-identification as transsxexual and deciding to act on it is a complicated area that for some people is definitely right and they know they need to do it and can;t be happy any other way, for others is more of a grey area, and for others would be completely wrong and a big mistake and they only consider it becasue they are confused about themselves and don;t really know what they want/need

Aeyna wrote on Oct 10^th, 2007 at 5:43pm:

When I say, "I am a woman," it probably appears absurd to someone looking at me, but it comes from a place that is so utterly true for me.

It is a great shame that people place so much importance on exterior things. What someone appears to be isn;t necessarily how they really are.  When it comes to transsexuals, it also doesn;t say that much about who they are inside if they are physically feminine in the first place or not; those ones are just luckier. However, I guess the average member of the public finds it easier - for the same superficial reasons - to accept it if the person looks feminine than if they are tall or bulky, and masculine-looking

On a different note, I suspect that if people felt completely accepted and free to express all sides to themselves - and were not pigeon-holed and restricted by expectations based on their physical body - then some people who decide to have SRS would feel less of a strong need to do so. It is good that gender stereotypes are somewhat less rigid than in the past, but there is a fair way to go

orlando123 wrote on Oct 10^th, 2007 at 6:54pm:

I don;t think there is either. I was just amazed at the insensitivity of the person who thought someone was a "better woman"becasue of their boob size. That sounds more like the less admirable kind of man thinking than someone I would consider feminine.

I agree with you 100%!  I think he was tuning something very masculine in that moment.



Quote:

I think self-identification as transsxexual and deciding to act on it is a complicated area that for some people is definitely right and they know they need to do it and can;t be happy any other way

If you get stuck in a very narrow tunnel vision and don't acknowledge the other aspects of life that make you happy, you might do something that leaves you in a place you'd rather not be.  It's very easy for a transgendered person to "obsess" on gender and lose sight of the big picture.

recoverer wrote on Oct 10^th, 2007 at 2:36pm:

Perhaps to say the World was created on purpose, not just a big illusory mistake like some sources of information claim.  Your sentence can be interpreted to mean that there is nothing wrong with making use of the creative aspect of being, as long as it is done in the spirit of love and light.

 Perhaps, but not necessarily.  Perhaps it was more of a personal message for you regarding certain of your own beliefs?

 As far as rest of your thoughts, which world are you talking about, the consciousness patterns created by the Planning Intelligence, OR the physical world which was densified and projected out of that via collective, sustained spiritual error/unsourceness/unlove on the part of many?

 I would say that while these two worlds are connected and one came from the other, there is still a rather big difference between the two in the broader sense.  One is pure, true beingness, eternal, the other simply a temporal reflection of the former.
 The physical body is not completely 'neutral'--it has certain tendencies, but yet, Spirit can use it to further its ends and ways, and so Spirit, or Soul using the physical in a spiritual manner can be and is a beautiful thing, such as what i talked about and you quoted earlier regarding a couple consecrating themselves as conscious channels for spiritually mature soul to be born through.   Eventually when enough of us do this consistently, and collectively, it will speed up the vibrations of the physical, back to its original state of pure, limitless light, and thus what we know as the 'physical' will cease to exist.  

 This doesn't mean to me, that the physical world  was manifested by Source like creating, but rather just simply that ever, always, and in any and every dimension, like attracts and begets like.  

 How do you think Yeshua was born into this world?  By chance, or by and through  slower vibrating energies around the mother, and her peoples?   Nah, by centuries of work, discipline, and holistic balance, leading up to the birth of a mother whom from a young age was consecrated by her parents and people, to be a pure channel through which such a Soul as the Christ could manifest through.   Trained emotionally, mentally, spiritually, and physically--special diets, constant emphasis on practicing patience, kindness, keeping the mind and body active, and well balanced with the spiritual.

 Or in other words, the vibrational patterns within, and immediately surrounding the mother, were vibrating in a unusually balanced manner at an unusually fast rate, for those times, and even for our times or in general.   The same could happen today, and its not necessary that a woman know a man in a physical manner for her to conceive--her own Spirit self, acting in tandem, merging with the evolved Spirit self of that Soul seeking to enter, can quicken and spark the conception in even a 'physical' manner, yet purely from an energetic/'invisible" standpoint.    That's a hard one for many to believe, even yet, but doesn't mean its not possible...

Aeyna wrote on Oct 10^th, 2007 at 8:10pm:

I agree with you 100%!  I think he was tuning something very masculine in that moment.

 Maybe its more that this person was expressing ego, which is neither just a 'man' or 'woman' issue?  

   Maybe both women and men with ego are competitive (or rather 'ego' is competitive in general), but tend to express it differently, and with men and their overall and average tendency to greater 'yang' polarized and thus projective energy, its simply just more obvious and noticeable?  

 On my journey through life, i've noticed a common pattern particularly with those who are overall imbalanced more to the Yin expression essentially thinking that 'ego' wise, that their shit doesn't stink as much, so to speak.    This is because yin energy or expression, tends to be much more subtle, and inward directed, and not so obvious as the more Yang polarized energy/expression is.  

  This does not necessarily mean women vs. men btw, i've seen this both with women, and with men who are more imbalanced to the yin within self on the mental and emotional levels.  Yes, on average, women do tend to be more imbalanced to the Yin polarization, just as more men do tend to be imbalanced towards the Yang polarization.  

 Going into more detail, relating to the paragraph above this and the last one, this can be illustrated well in the Zodiac signs of Cancer and Leo.    Cancer is a feminine sign, ruled by the very yin polarized Moon.   Leo is a masculine sign supposedly ruled by the more yang Sun (i believe its really ruled by Mercury and Mars together, and that the Sun is neither Yang, nor Yin, but represents an almost perfect balance, but that's a whole nother discussion).  

 Anyways, both Cancer and Leo are rather self centered and selfish (thus essentially "egotistical") in many ways, and yet Cancer isn't really known for this, and Leo is supposedly this personified or to the nth degree.   Why the big difference in perception?   Because Cancer's energies are so inward turned, passive, reflecting, absorbing, and subtle in nature, and Leo's are very projective, expressive, active, and much more directly obvious.    Is one expression really better than the other, if both are at their core self centered and ego centered (speaking of the signs, and not of individuals born under these indications)?  

 Not to me, we just have a polarization and extreme comparison between ultra feminine (Cancer), and ultra masculine (Leo).   Lot's of times, i've noticed that strong and imbalanced feminine energy being expressed from the false self, is EXTREMELY manipulative and unconscious/reactive/irrational in nature (and thus doesn't tend to be too honest or direct with self or others).  And we all know the downside to strong, imbalanced masculine energy being expressed from the false self, since this is often commented on in our society lately, particularly by women and a percentage of gay men (and understandably so).    Anyways, point is, ego is ego, no matter how it comes across on the surface.  
  We're all human, we're all souls, and if we consciously, completely, and always transcended the ego, we would consciously and always completely transcend the physical itself...

Ah So said:  "How do you think Yeshua was born into this world?
By chance, or by and through  slower vibrating energies around
the mother, and her peoples?   Nah, by centuries of work, discipline,
and holistic balance, leading up to the birth of a mother whom from
a young age was consecrated by her parents and people, to be a
pure channel through which such a Soul as the Christ could manifest.
Trained emotionally, mentally, spiritually, and physically--special diets,
constant emphasis on practicing patience, kindness, keeping the mind
and body active, and well balanced with the spiritual."

Many thanks for the reminder, AhSo!
I've read about the practices of that sect and Mary's role that was prepared for her. Today with no such lifestyles given much public attention, too many of us seem to think that the spiritual is all magic, or we disbelieve entirely. Very few people seem to understand that excellent physical health and attitudes are required to have spiritual qualities fully operate in earthly life.

Bets

betson wrote on Oct 11^th, 2007 at 9:53am:

Many thanks for the reminder, AhSo! I've read about the practices of that sect and Mary's role that was prepared for her. Today with no such lifestyles given much public attention, too many of us seem to think that the spiritual is all magic, or we disbelieve entirely.   Bets

 Many welcomes Bets.  Personally i find that topic and history fascinating.   I agree, there is not much public attention or understanding, even in the "new age" world, on stuff like this.   There are though, some intentional communities here and there, who are seeking to foster similar conditions as did the Essenes in that space/time cycle.  I've noticed that some of these tend to either be too 'fluid' in nature, and lack structure, or the other extreme, they tend to be too structured and lack enough fluidity.   Yet another Yin-Yang balance issue, which i seem to be speaking obsessively on lately.
 

Quote:

Very few people seem to understand that excellent physical health and attitudes are required to have spiritual qualities fully operate in earthly life.

Here, here!  You don't know how much i (lol or my ego) appreciates someone else also recognizing and saying this!

 And yet it's so essentially simple, life comes from and perpetuates life, and death comes from and perpetuates death.....

  The Essenes knew this well, and knew it pertained to the physical, the mental, and spiritual, and while none of them lived it perfectly like Yeshua eventually did, they did perceive the necessary balance which must take place for that complete redeeming of the physical to take place.   They also fostered brining in such a one who would eventually perfectly live as they themselves only perceived and dreamed of...

 We ever live in a reciprocal reality, whether speaking physicality or nonphysically.  

 Cayce's source once said that the Essenes practiced a form of spiritual eugenics, not even remotely resembling the materially based one that Hitler and many Nazi's bought into.   But that they fully understood the energy reaction/law of like attracts and begets like, or also called "energy resonation", and that it pertained to all levels of being.

 My guidance has been rather insistent on certain even physical disciplines and dietary changes, and i know that when i finally master these more physical and dietary aspects of life (as well as more consistency in meditation), that MUCH will be opened up for me, and it will be easier to spiritually act from my center within the physical at all times.   But, alas i can be lazy and have tendencies to procrastination.   Strangely, there is almost a sense of urgency with this, with them, not that they are controlling, but rather that they know that deep within i know better and thus feel i should be living up to my ideals, and in the future not just for my sake and happiness.

 On a lighter note, who in the world would have thunk that a thread containing the word "sex" in the topic headline would produce so many replies and get so many counter hits. :o ::) :D ;D

 

Recoverer, Sorry for any confusion. I did not want to seem like I was in any way tring to glorify what the bombers did. Or do I believe that there will be any virgins waiting for them in their heaven. My thought are more along the lines of their created spiritual end and to the sexual aspect thinking that revolves around this virgin thing that they expect. I believe that you create you own heaven or hell. I will manifest what I believe in and what I am ready to experience and understand on a personal level of enlightenment. Only I can deside what I will experience. An example is that as I don't believe in organised religion, I wont be spending time in the belief system territorty that has that covered. Nor will I get stuck there and need to be assisted along from there. I think that these bombers will go to their belief system territory and experience just what they believe. They may as a part of this
Joe  

wrote on Oct 11^th, 2007 at 12:41am:

Aeyna wrote on Oct 10th, 2007 at 8:10pm: I agree with you 100%!  I think he was tuning something very masculine in that moment.  Maybe its more that this person was expressing ego, which is neither just a 'man' or 'woman' issue?      Maybe both women and men with ego are competitive (or rather 'ego' is competitive in general), but tend to express it differently, and with men and their overall and average tendency to greater 'yang' polarized and thus projective energy, its simply just more obvious and noticeable?

Absolutely. Sorry if I implied otherwise.  I simply found his assertion of "womanly superiority" over his wife amusingly ironic, because it was so stereotypically male in its delivery.

Women play the same game, just differently (and in many ways more insidiously).

 Yeah, i know what you mean Aeyna, it was kind of ironically amusing.  No need to apologize, i wasn't offended in the least bit, i've just been on both a balance and expressive kick lately.  Lately, i'm starting to feel more and more androgynous and don't particularly strongly identify with masculine or feminine, though i can't seem to shake the physical, hormone, lust attraction to the female body though i think life would be much simpler without it!

 Very beautiful name by the way, i like its vibratory pattern and sound.  You kind of remind me of another person from here, with whom i talked to on occasion.  I haven't seen them around for awhile and kind of miss their voice here.

hawkeye wrote on Oct 11^th, 2007 at 1:37pm:

Recoverer, Sorry for any confusion. I did not want to seem like I was in any way tring to glorify what the bombers did. Or do I believe that there will be any virgins waiting for them in their heaven. My thought are more along the lines of their created spiritual end and to the sexual aspect thinking that revolves around this virgin thing that they expect. I believe that you create you own heaven or hell. I will manifest what I believe in and what I am ready to experience and understand on a personal level of enlightenment. Only I can deside what I will experience. An example is that as I don't believe in organised religion, I wont be spending time in the belief system territorty that has that covered. Nor will I get stuck there and need to be assisted along from there. I think that these bombers will go to their belief system territory and experience just what they believe. They may as a part of this Joe

Hi Joe, i agree with much of what you said, but you make it sound almost as if its completely a conscious thing...whereas, much of the time, the 'creating' that we do is very, very unconscious, and that many times people are automatically attracted to a place they may not consciously like or want to go to, because of their unconscious creating.  All energy and conscious follows the same basic universal energy reaction and law, like attracts and begets like.    You can consciously think and have a certain belief system all you want, but if you live a certain way, in the nonphysical you are going to be automatically attracted to that dimension which was manifested by a collective of those on a similar wavelength.  

 One suicide 'bomber' because of his inner ideals, motivations, and intents, etc. may 'go' to a hollow heaven belief system territory (with the virgins et al), and yet another may be attracted into the lower hells.  In some respects, they had similar certain conscious belief systems, but the difference comes in how they lived, the attitudes and ideals within, and how that matched up their actions and conscious beliefs to that.  It's these inner ideals, intents, attitudes, and motivations which matter more than the surface actions, which is probably one of the reasons why Yeshua counseled us to not judge others since we tend to only perceive the action, obvious parts, and not so much the inner part of the individuals.  

 This is how people get stuck in the first place, by a combination of how they live and their more focused on or stronger conscious and unconscious belief systems.  Sometimes its more one than the other, but almost always its a mix to a certain degree.  

 I believe that Recoverer may have been trying to say this earlier, as well?  Where is an Albert when you need one.

wrote on Oct 11^th, 2007 at 2:05pm:

Lately, i'm starting to feel more and more androgynous and don't particularly strongly identify with masculine or feminine, though i can't seem to shake the physical, hormone, lust attraction to the female body though i think life would be much simpler without it!

Oh, but it's so much fun surrender to body/physical, don't you find?  It's one of the more enjoyable paths to the spiritual, I've found.  



Quote:

Very beautiful name by the way, i like its vibratory pattern and sound.  You kind of remind me of another person from here, with whom i talked to on occasion.  I haven't seen them around for awhile and kind of miss their voice here.

Thank you. It resonates with me as well.   I hope I stay awhile.  I really enjoy the energy here.

Aeyna wrote on Oct 11^th, 2007 at 2:49pm:

[quote author=AhSoLaoTsuAhhOmmra link=1191016668/60#68 date=1192125906]  Lately, i'm starting to feel more and more androgynous and don't particularly strongly identify with masculine or feminine, though i can't seem to shake the physical, hormone, lust attraction to the female body though i think life would be much simpler without it!

I generally think life would be simpler without it too. I sometimes think of myself as having an http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intergender identity, but how I feel about myself varies from time to time     I think the world woulod be better with fewer gender expectations/stereotypes

Orlando, are you also a male in your 20's?  Lol, dunno about you, but in my case, that might have something to do with the lust tendencies.  

 I know when i conserve my sexual energies not through repression but through deep consistent meditation and concentration on the real in everyday life, i have more energy and clarity in general, and my energy field seems a lot more expansive and powerful.

 Similar to, but also different, from when i eat less but eat more healthy live foods and what not.

wrote on Oct 11^th, 2007 at 3:54pm:

Orlando, are you also a male in your 20's?  Lol, dunno about you, but in my case, that might have something to do with the lust tendencies.    I know when i conserve my sexual energies not through repression but through deep consistent meditation and concentration on the real in everyday life, i have more energy and clarity in general, and my energy field seems a lot more expansive and powerful.  Similar to, but also different, from when i eat less but eat more healthy live foods and what not.

Hi   I'm male and in my 30s. Not completely sure what your comments have to do with what I said, but they sounds quite good advice anyway . Or did you think I meant i am obsessed with attractive women's bodies so should find another outlet? I didn;t exactly mean that LOL, I meant more generally that sometimes sex and sexual attraction complicates life and human relationships. For the first meaning, I think I find that aspect somewhat less distracting than I did at your age, though I wouldn't say it was something that has been a huge problem to me - I'm not the type of man who can't meet a woman without having rampantly lustful thoughts all the time  ;D  (might depend on the person though, I suppose  ;))

Hi Justin, hope u don't mind I call u Justin?  u put the Virgin Mary into a better perspective for me, so thanks, makes sense that Mary would have been prepared both physically and spiritually to bring forth JC, that would include even her family members participating in this event.

nice thread this turned out to be, was it Joe started it? thanks whoever did.

Justin, about the lust, the hormones, the attraction a male has for the curves of the woman, its all necessary to perpetuate the race, or who would bother?  :)
you and your wife are one now, speaking from a woman's perspective, she feels fulfilled if you even notice her walking by, maybe wink at her..she'll like that!

I feel like your marriage is top of the line somehow. I feel very happy about it.

love, alysia

Yes, Ahso and Hawkeye, below is what I meant. Therefore, "Albert" wasn't needed, because Ahso answered.


wrote on Oct 11^th, 2007 at 2:18pm:

hawkeye wrote on Oct 11th, 2007 at 1:37pm: Recoverer, Sorry for any confusion. I did not want to seem like I was in any way tring to glorify what the bombers did. Or do I believe that there will be any virgins waiting for them in their heaven. My thought are more along the lines of their created spiritual end and to the sexual aspect thinking that revolves around this virgin thing that they expect. I believe that you create you own heaven or hell. I will manifest what I believe in and what I am ready to experience and understand on a personal level of enlightenment. Only I can deside what I will experience. An example is that as I don't believe in organised religion, I wont be spending time in the belief system territorty that has that covered. Nor will I get stuck there and need to be assisted along from there. I think that these bombers will go to their belief system territory and experience just what they believe. They may as a part of this Joe   Hi Joe, i agree with much of what you said, but you make it sound almost as if its completely a conscious thing...whereas, much of the time, the 'creating' that we do is very, very unconscious, and that many times people are automatically attracted to a place they may not consciously like or want to go to, because of their unconscious creating.  All energy and conscious follows the same basic universal energy reaction and law, like attracts and begets like.    You can consciously think and have a certain belief system all you want, but if you live a certain way, in the nonphysical you are going to be automatically attracted to that dimension which was manifested by a collective of those on a similar wavelength.    One suicide 'bomber' because of his inner ideals, motivations, and intents, etc. may 'go' to a hollow heaven belief system territory (with the virgins et al), and yet another may be attracted into the lower hells.  In some respects, they had similar certain conscious belief systems, but the difference comes in how they lived, the attitudes and ideals within, and how that matched up their actions and conscious beliefs to that.  It's these inner ideals, intents, attitudes, and motivations which matter more than the surface actions, which is probably one of the reasons why Yeshua counseled us to not judge others since we tend to only perceive the action, obvious parts, and not so much the inner part of the individuals.    This is how people get stuck in the first place, by a combination of how they live and their more focused on or stronger conscious and unconscious belief systems.  Sometimes its more one than the other, but almost always its a mix to a certain degree.    I believe that Recoverer may have been trying to say this earlier, as well?  Where is an Albert when you need one.

Hi again Orlando,

Nah, in that 2nd part of my post, i wasn't directly referring to your reply, i was just getting back to the main gist of the thread, or at least my perspective of it.   Yes, i understood that you meant that sometimes sexual attraction or lust can just simply complicate human relationships at times.  Lol i wasn't inferring that you are a sex maniac.   Are you though??!!  :o :-X Just kidding! :D

  I was hinting in general, to any and all reading, that deep consistent meditation can help to transform the physical, lust aspect of the sexual energies, if that is something they are interested in lessening.

 But, like you sort of touched upon, getting out of my 20's will probably help a bit, but it's usually not that bad nowadays anyways, nothing compared to when i was a young teen and my body and energy system was really imbalanced from various reasons.   I guess i'm just saying that all in all, i wouldn't particularly miss my sexual drive if it completely went away.

LaffingRain wrote on Oct 11^th, 2007 at 4:15pm:

Hi Justin, hope u don't mind I call u Justin?  u put the Virgin Mary into a better perspective for me, so thanks, makes sense that Mary would have been prepared both physically and spiritually to bring forth JC, that would include even her family members participating in this event. nice thread this turned out to be, was it Joe started it? thanks whoever did. love, alysia

 Please do!  I'm kind of getting tired of the Ah So a bit.    I'm glad you liked the perspective behind Miriam and her role in attracting Yeshua into materiality.   I believe that in a sense, she was the more feminine half of that Soul.  And the feminine always comes first, its the very pattern of Creation, and its even the pattern within the Earth.  Without Miriam and her very fast vibratory energies, there would have been no Yeshua as we knew him in the Earth...   So while the role of women, is less glamorous and less in the spotlight, its an infinitely and equally important one as the more active in the world, masculine role that Yeshua played out as the other half of that Soul.  The receptive seeding, and the sprouting plant.


Quote:

Justin, about the lust, the hormones, the attraction a male has for the curves of the woman, its all necessary to perpetuate the race, or who would bother?  :) you and your wife are one now, speaking from a woman's perspective, she feels fulfilled if you even notice her walking by, maybe wink at her..she'll like that!

 Yeah, i know what you mean, and hey i would be a liar if i said that i didn't enjoy certain aspects of the arrangement here, BUT for me personally life would be easier and more simple without it.   If we didn't manifest the illusionary world to begin with, we wouldn't be doing these kind of things to begin with either.    

 Thanks for the advice.  Is that why we don't seem to have passionate sex anymore?  She's fulfilled in other, more important ways?   It's a nice thought, and probably something to it, but i  also get the feeling her body is a bit imbalanced lately.   The last 2 times she went to give blood, they declined her because her iron levels were too low, and i think she might have tendencies to anemia besides, which with stress from her job, recent moving, money issues, etc. may also contribute to the lack of that drive.  


Quote:

I feel like your marriage is top of the line somehow. I feel very happy about it.

 Wow, thank you!  That was a very kind thing you said.   I'm somewhat excited about eventually having children, especially since Becky has been getting waking visions and dreams about our little girl recently, which in one of the visions she called her little strawberry because she has golden reddish hair.   She seemed like such a happy, and joyful child to Becky.

 I've had a couple sensitives tell me that at least one of our children is going to be a near avatar type, not in the strict or religiously dogmatic sense of the word (such as Albert has  explained to me before), but in the general new agey sense of very, very intune and spiritually developed.    

 I've long felt that one of my future children, probably the daughter Becky has been getting glimpses of, is an aspect of the Total self which also expressed my Mother, whom i was very close too, and who was/is a rather old soul.  Well, while i'm excited and looking forward to raising a child with Becky, i still hope its a few years off yet, because of certain probable events i see coming.

I used to worry some about those probable events you mentioned Justin. I asked a good friend who is a master on the inner levels, my opinion because of certain experiences I've had with him obe, but anyhoo, just passing this thought on for anyone's benefit to know that whatever outpictures in our total world, the universe is unfolding exactly as it should, even though we may see a population world wide reduction here and there until things settle down. the changes appear to be spaced out enough for us to handle them better. thats my thought. the only thing I was shown once was myself being taken away to a camp to attend to some refugees, as in boosting their moral. which I was happy to do. the area I was in was in a martial law state. the young people who kept the order were very kind souls sent to do that.

did not get bad vibes from the dream at all. what my friend told me is there are alternate realities in our universe, not just the probable or possible realities, but alternate realities, like dimension slide type realities. Some will slide into these other realities and one minute you're here, then next minute you're feeling quite natural in another reality which looks the same as the other and most times you won't notice that you slipped into it, this other reality or dimension where you continue.

something to do with soul choices and not needing to experience war or needing to fulfill a mission in certain circumstances more conducive to that in another reality. something also to do with the planning committee or event planners.

so I thought what he said was interesting. but I have to fall back on my own learnings of course, that the universe is unfolding exactly as it should..it's also very good to be very vigilant right now and aware of the world events and send healing where and when we can with our minds while we are taking care of our own little turf of necessity.

you and Becky will probably attract a soul that has known you before and is assured of a good childhood so that he or she can the more faster get their intentions done here.
a lot of the indigo children are masters, but its hard to tell at first; they are very sensitive and sometimes misdiagnosed as hyper and medicated. I know you won't make this mistake. the color Indigo is the transmution ray..the highest spiritual color there is, my opinion from reading up on the rays.

I like that u mentioned Mariam and JC, to be twin flames, or the same soul, divided, I've been studying up on this too, its a little mind boggling to think about and grasp, but quite logical in a way.

well goodnite all! I'm reading about the warrior path, which is Shambhala.
which is actually the open heart path. might get a chance to discuss it here someday. love, alysia