One of the things that I find very interesting when reading through various postings is that a lot of posts leave religion of out it. I am not interested in reading people’s religious beliefs – but I really enjoy hearing evidence of spiritual occurrences. For example, I don’t want to hear – “Jesus will save you”.

Don’t get me wrong, if you are religious, that is great, but I am not seeking proof or evidence of religion. To me that is entirely another subject.

Although I would not describe myself as religious, I would describe myself as spiritual. I want to really belief that I will know my kids (for example) after my physical life has ended.

When reading people’s experiences that had a NDE, some state that they are more spiritual as opposed to religious. Here is an example:

“The experience, however,  does have a profound effect upon him. He has been spiritually transformed.  Formerly he had been active in his church and had held the beliefs of his denomination to be the only true path.  Now he is no longer "religious" in a dogmatic sense, rather he has become spiritual.  He realizes that many of the aspects of religion which he had formerly considered important are merely superficialities.  Although he enjoys his physical surroundings, he places little value on material possessions.  Love and compassion towards his fellow man are the treasures with which he is now concerned.   From his life review he realizes that these are the elements of true religion.  He also recognizes the importance of learning and the joy which it can bring.  Lastly, he no longer fears death, he views the material body as a bird views its cage.  He knows that upon his physical death he will soar in another realm.”

I’m wondering what other peoples views are related to this subject? That is – can a line really be drawn between spiritual belief and religion? I think so.   :)

Very interesting observation!

I suppose, they can be entirely separated - you can be religious but not really spiritual and vice versa.

However, most orthadox religions are very similar in their concepts (love for fellow beings, treat others as you would be treated) and these concepts are pretty much shared with spiritualism/afterlife knowledge. You can have both a religious and spiritual outlook as they can be the same thing it seems! Is there a god running the show? Yes, of course there is... what that god is depends on your outlook and experiences though, everybody follows their own path and there is no right or wrong route if you keep an open mind and never hurt anybody!

Fundamentalism of any kind, where things seem to be taken literally or where people follow religious beliefs because they are told to without question sits outside of my definition of religion & in my very humble opinion seems to be used as a method of controlling people or starting wars.

I suppose I define myself as agnostic which literally means "without knowledge" apparantly (I looked it up to be sure!). I don't have faith in the one true god as the bible tells it as it's written by Man but I do believe in "god" as in there is a higher conciousness within me and all around me.

Fascinating stuff anyway, you've certainly got me thinking :)

Would agree - the two are usually positioned towards the opposite ends of the spectrum of ways of approaching belief.

Religion is I guess usually a ready made package of beliefs or dogma handed down by those in charge that one signs up to 'believe' (actually a contradiction in terms) in joining a religion.

Some allow a bit of  personal freedom, but dogmatic belief systems are usually constructed by people operating from an intellectual and institutional power perspective, who having purported to represent God or whatever Deity on earth then set out to propogate and often enforce these beliefs on others.

They rarely admit personal or subjective esoteric experience as this threatens to undermine the dogma and the authority of those enforcing it, and leads to independent thinking on the part of the membership.

Spirituality is as you say basically about growth along a personal path as a result of personal study, experience and insight, and includes subjective esoteric experience. Spiritual teachings explain what most can expect to experience, or teach methods  - they support the personal path.

Belief is a personal matter and follows from learning, experience and insight - from what amounts to an experiential 'proving' of  teachings to oneself. 'Truth' is emergent...

i don't believe you have to be "religious" at all to believe in this stuff...  but some psychics are christians, for example, even though they don't follow the typical christian beliefs

Spiritual energy and religion are two different subjects.

One can have spiritual/non-physical experiences, but not be in a religion at all.

The people who wrote the Bible said God told them to write the words, and those people had their own personal experiences, so those people created the "Christian" religion/movement. The movement was created based on those people's personal experiences.

As you can see, spiritual and religion are two different subjects.

One can have spiritual experiences and have nothing to do with religion.

I hope that makes sense.

I believe that we have come from the universal conscious and that we will reenter it when are time has come.  I also believe that some of us are able to knowingly and unknowingly enter then universal conscious without changing states.  Through Dreams, Creative break thoughts, child prodigies, telepathic, esp., deja-vu, meditation, and instinct.  It is a well know fact that we only use four percent of our brainpower.  It is also a document fact that when we are in REM sleep our brains are firing 80% more synapse than at our most conscious moment when we are awake.  I believe at this point we let go of the box that we have been taught from day one and we use more than four percent of our brainpower.   This is one way that I believe some of us enter the universal conscious.  At this point it depends what you are focused on will happen.  Some many have visions, inspiration, innovation, or talk with loved ones who have already entered or have not even left the universal conscious. Within the universal conscious linear time has no meaning therefore once we enter thought the above methods it is possible to see or talk to loved ones past or children to come. If we are all connected thought energy and there is a little of our parents energy in us and their parent’s energy in them it not hard to believe that this could happen.
you will be with the ones you love as you have always been.   :) :)

in the distant future there will be such a change in religion it will seem archaic when people talk of it. we will be just more knowing individuals and our heart intelligence will guide us, also the left and right hemispheres of the brain will be in sync, which will aid us in being discerning of the spiritual dimensions, obe, meditation, and all of those tools of exploration of our inner selves, who and what we are.
I'm not putting down religion though, in the beginning here, we needed guidelines that religion has given. but now is a new age we slowly go into.

I am in agreement with you all. especially like what Jetman said. love, alysia

Interestingly, religion has no place for common people who are directly aware of God. In fact, the essence of priestcraft is that the priest alone has the Divine Ear, and to be heard, all the rest must funnel their wishes, thoughts etc through the priest who is ultimately the representative of God on Earth.

Somehow that reminds me of all those spam emails I get that are trying to sell this or that potion for erectile efficiency.  :-X

In both cases, I'm sorry, but really, I'd rather do it myself, thank you.
;)
dave

Hi I love God so very much and i never go to church to talk to him,i always talk to him in my bedroom on my own as God knows what im going to ask him ,even before i ask,he knows me better than anyone else in the world and i put my faith and love and trust in him as he is my  strength and i can go on with Gods love ,if i didnt have that ,then im not so sure i could go on,i just know that he loves me as when i talk to him,theres so much peace and love that fills my  soul.I  have seen spirit and spirit love us even if we are not religious,there love for us and the divine spirit God's love for us is unconditional.

I was very down today because of this divorce im going through and i layed on my bed and i was sending thoughts to God that i was feeling like i did not know where to turn and as i closed my eyes i saw this beautiful angel dressed in gold and white smileing at me and holding her hand up and this peace went right through me and everything had lifted and i started to feel strong again and then the angel dissapeared,so God does listen,but sometimes we dont realise it.

Love and God bless   Love Juditha

:) Wish I had your 'cinerama' Juditha! It's kind of amazing how different a situation that feels awful when we are down can look when we get in the 'zone'. I don't have the abilities of some of you guys, and have to take myself in hand and raise my vibe while actively seeking the connection to light. But it can make such a difference.....

[Dave:] "Interestingly, religion has no place for common people who are directly aware of God. In fact, the essence of priestcraft is that the priest alone has the Divine Ear, and to be heard, all the rest must funnel their wishes, thoughts etc through the priest who is ultimately the representative of God on Earth."
____________________________________

"You [all] are God's holy priests (1 Peter 2:5)."
"Don 't let anyone call you `Teacher;' for you have one teacher, and all of you are on the same level as brothers and sisters (Matthew 23:8)."
"But you have received the Holy Spirit, and you don't need anyone to teach you what is true.  For the Spirit teaches you alll things, and what bHe teaches is true (1 John 2:27)."

Don

I agree with alot of what everyone is saying, and I have been through the whole religion vs. spirituality experience more than most beause I grew up with both parents who were ministers. I never go to church, but I have a relationship with God.

The only issue I have is what can be an anti-religion sentiment. Religion as far as general concept IS very necessary. It is the foundation behind praising the same God that any agnostic or spiritual person praises. It's also something that has been key in societal organization, from the creation of laws to providing an institution for collective congregation with others in our community.

Religion is not the problem.....people's misinterpretation OF religion is the problem. Man's selfish/ignorant spin on religion is the problem. So in that sense, I am all for religion. It's principle is necessary. I am more for taking some of these religious zealots and leading them to sites like this and conversations like this so that open mind commentary can give what they believe a REAL definition.

Just like I believe that science and religion together, minus there flawed beliefs, can give the World the same info that Bruce and many others give. But until then....."we" will continue have a World filled with people who don't truly understand spirituality...their purpose...life (before, during, and after)...etc.

What you say is very right JG - it helps so much to be a part of a community of others on the path. But it can be quite tough to find such a group.....

Quote:

The only issue I have is what can be an anti-religion sentiment. Religion as far as general concept IS very necessary. It is the foundation behind praising the same God that any agnostic or spiritual person praises. It's also something that has been key in societal organization, from the creation of laws to providing an institution for collective congregation with others in our community.

Another thing that could probably block "open minded" believing is organized religion a.k.a. church.
What happens there is that a lot of people go there and listen to the preacher's words and hear his interpretations of e.g. the bible. The church as a "house of god". But for what does god need a house, if he IS everything, the whole existence, universe, past, present, future? I questioned a lot the need for a special place to praise god. Every little breath that is taken could be (gone hypocritic again..) could be a "place to praise". Going to church and real believing are two different pairs of shoes.
Or what about relying on the bible as gods ultimate word. It is a basis, but as time goes on, people change, believing changes (could also be seen as a part of the divine plan), what doesn't change is the dogma.
The bible closes with the Revelation of St. John, there are also other scriptures like they found in qumran.
What we do not find are "newer" prophets. Are the times we're living in so worthless that nobody can/wants
to share "visions from god" (the well known prophets of the bible had nothing else than visions from god).

What I was also worrying about is the picture of the "kind" god. If looking on what is happening today, why shouldn't he be angry?

regards,

pulsar

pulsar wrote on Sep 13^th, 2007 at 2:14pm:

Quote: The only issue I have is what can be an anti-religion sentiment. Religion as far as general concept IS very necessary. It is the foundation behind praising the same God that any agnostic or spiritual person praises. It's also something that has been key in societal organization, from the creation of laws to providing an institution for collective congregation with others in our community. Another thing that could probably block "open minded" believing is organized religion a.k.a. church. What happens there is that a lot of people go there and listen to the preacher's words and hear his interpretations of e.g. the bible. The church as a "house of god". But for what does god need a house, if he IS everything, the whole existence, universe, past, present, future? I questioned a lot the need for a special place to praise god. Every little breath that is taken could be (gone hypocritic again..) could be a "place to praise". Going to church and real believing are two different pairs of shoes. Or what about relying on the bible as gods ultimate word. It is a basis, but as time goes on, people change, believing changes (could also be seen as a part of the divine plan), what doesn't change is the dogma. The bible closes with the Revelation of St. John, there are also other scriptures like they found in qumran. What we do not find are "newer" prophets. Are the times we're living in so worthless that nobody can/wants to share "visions from god" (the well known prophets of the bible had nothing else than visions from god). What I was also worrying about is the picture of the "kind" god. If looking on what is happening today, why shouldn't he be angry? regards, pulsar

Well, I understand what you mean, but I have learned that there is nothing fruitful that can come from questioning things that are flawed in religion that come from trend and tradition. Sure the church building is not truly needed, but like I mentioned before is something that should be apart of religion and society. The problem stems from worshipping the building, or the pastor, or the Bible, or whatever resource is related to the religious dogma in question.

The stringent details of most religions can be debated, is flawed, yadda yadda. The BASIS of the religion should speak for itself and be what a truly intelligent person should look for. It's just such a negative stigma in our society because the "ignorant" details that are associated with religion are what cause debates, wars, and extremism. My advice has always been to never concern yourself with those things, because when it's all said and done, regardless of what any book or person tells you, God will be the ultimate judge of your heart. And I am willing to bet it won't be based on how many times you have physically been to church...lol.
The mafia of old went to Catholic services everyday, before and after murdering people.

Always think PRINCIPLE before debating INTERPRETATION.

Hey JG,

the first thing that could be interesting in digging for principles is not that hard to find. A divine principle, that is what is in most cases worshipped as the "ultimate truth" or "creator".
If it should make sense, the divine one is nothing that is outstanding, more of a matter, that is woven within our "reality". So everything is a part of "it", natural ("physical laws"), birth, death. You see, my thoughts match with pantheistic beliefs, nature as our "god" or determination. The only idea, that I took a deeper look into is Platos idea of the soul (the soul as the our divine part, that is not imperfect, the world around as imperfect picture of "heaven" where the soul has lived before being incarnated).
So it is the only thing to focus on, because it is the essence, religion is just a fruitless approach to explain it.
But god is even more than just a center of believing, more of the ultimate truth, life itself (I tend to say "life", from the "beginning of everything", there must be a start, but wait, from where will something come, if nothing were before...so crash...and there making principles turned out...nonsense, so there our knowledge seems to end)
God is also a word, but what is meant, is man's everlasting search for "where did I come from", "why am I here" and "where will I go".
That is what I basically (or maybe sort of a principle) think of what the divine principle has to be like.
I started to think again about god, on a point where astrophysics and "religious" questioning of the big questions in life cross. So to say, handling it like a hypothesis (when talking about principles, this is also neede, to have a point to start your search, maybe the way was invalid, so no results, but what to do then...probably like in every experiment, searching for the flaws, and try it again).

The bible is only like an "ignition", but again, it is what people thought of god more than 2000 years ago. So it cannot be all there is to discover what the essence of ones own connection with god is.

Physically being at church is nonsense, I haven't been to church since my confirmation, because I was fed up with listening to sermons, I thought it would be wiser to find out on my own, what god is, and how I am connected with him/her/it (or not, the other side of the coin). I have not found it until today, so the search goes on... .

So cut it down to the lowest point of discussion, he/she/it is the answer to all questions, if we found this answer, then we could dare to say we know about god.
But we are assuming, scratching the surface an searching a base point, but it is not that easy to find a compelling one, everyone would agree with, as we never think only objective.

regards,

pulsar

JG, I think that I will be the judge of my heart not God(?).This judgment thing comes from the church to keep you in fear. Be afraid of what God is going to think stuff. Its just such cr-p as far as I can see. My God will never judge me, there is nothing for him to judge for in my Gods eyes I am the same as him.
Joe

Hi, I haven't read this whole thread due to time constraint but I plan on reading it. just adding my two cents that Joe (Hawkeye) is right..the premise of Monroe school is to get to a nonjudgemental perspective,where there is no right, there is not wrong..all just is.

people have ruled over others since the beginning of time using fear, the fear of god to place inside of others. the time has come to become fearless to practice instead PUL, to see it, know it, touch it, express it and watch what happens to the world; it should be well known the properties of PUL act to increase awareness, make perceptions bigger, have more depth, expanding the mind, PUL really has nothing to do with religions unless they are speaking of a universal brotherhood which expands compassion and understanding among people.

where there is Love, fear cannot be also. (try feeling love and fear at the same time) but its a daily course to take because fear will seem to be built into the DNA, the flight or fight syndrome or instinct. yet we are so much more than a human animal with those fight or flight instincts..you must always remember your true self is much more than you can imagine.
and thats why I sign off with the word love no matter who doesn't like it!  ;)

hawkeye wrote on Sep 13^th, 2007 at 5:54pm:

JG, I think that I will be the judge of my heart not God(?).This judgment thing comes from the church to keep you in fear. Be afraid of what God is going to think stuff. Its just such cr-p as far as I can see. My God will never judge me, there is nothing for him to judge for in my Gods eyes I am the same as him. Joe

And I do not disagree with that. The statement that I made about God judging you was based on the basic principle of alot of religions. It again is another "detail" that may or may not be true, but it was stated because we were speaking about RELIGION specifically. It wasn't me, JG, speaking on behalf of God and what he/she will or will not do. So it is unnecesary to take what i said as a literal and accurate view of life. It was just repeated sentiment in relation to the topic.

I for one am still in a learning phase. I am learning how to shun alot of what I learned religion-wise, and I am also trying to learn how to be more of a free thinker and increase my level of awareness and spiritualy, so if I say anything that is a reflection of something that is definitive of an idiosyncracy, then I advise to not take it to heart or get bothered by it. Your view is something I value as much as my own.....

Of course, every religion has its own spirituality and "spirituality" can be an insipid term to excuse posters from the hard work of critical engagement with long-established practiicioners of highly effective religious spiritualities.  This thread suffers from a  failure to define "spirituality" and "religion."  Therefore, "spirituality" emerges as a fuzzy term for a form of New Age orthodoxy that is oblivious to how its own mindless doctrines become the sole basis for dismssing contrary religious doctrines.  The sad fact is that posters don't know enough about these doctrines to reject them intelligently.  The underlying assumption is that New Agers are more open-minded than, say, Christians.  In my experience, the opposite is generally the case.  

For example, I have actively followed this site for most of this century. There have been countless posts about Jesus.  Where books about Jesus are cited, they are invariably kooky New Age books, whose bias and poor resaarch would provoke patronizing tittering from the most reputable agnostic Bible scholars.  My assessment that this site is a New Age ghetto is constantly reaffirmed by the penchant of posters to pontificate on religious topics about which they are ill-informed, and yet, take pride in their refusal to consult the acknowledged experts whose research might quickly expose the devastating flaws in their New Age positions.  

Two weeks ago, I devoted part of a sermon to misconceptions about Hell.  I stressed that the biblical Hell is self-chosen and not necessarily eternal, that retrievals from Hell are possible and even routine, that God's love never permanently abandons anyone after death,  and that, unless one understands how Hell might be "fair and just," Hell has not been properly understood.  The response was overwhelmingly open and positive, even though what I taught was news to almost all of them.  I was struck by the contrast with the prickly myopia of posters on this site.  What an improvement it would be if posters would routinely preface their diatribes with phrases like "From my experience of the church," or "my impression of the Bible is.," --dammit, any phrase that indicates some awareness that they know what they don't know and therefore allow this fact to suppress the dogmatism of their anti-religious screed.

Most Christians I know abhor second-hand spirituality and long for a faith based not on mindless dogma, but on self-authenticating experiences that can hopefully be verified.  The New Age caricature of a Christianity based on blind faith merely masks the impoverishment of their own mindless and often unconscious belief system.

Don

[quote author=pulsar link=1189443764/15#20 date=1189843266]@LaffingRain

Fear and love do coexist.
____
hey there, my point was that while "feeling" love, in that nano second you are feeling that, a switch in the mind has to be tapped in order to "feel" the fear, as the two emotions in their purest form do not co-exist in that nano second of space, but u r right that one or the other is up in our faces and we switch back and forth.
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Still today believers fear to fall apart from gods love, or even on profane occasions, if you have someone you love , you care for him/her, but you also sometimes fear to lose this person. So it really goes hand in hand.
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as regarding the fear of losing someone u love; you set them free, if they return to you they belong to you, if they don't, they were never yours. btw, sometimes there are certain people you need to set free as they don't need what you have to give them. we are all worthy of love though.
____

I don't see anything wrong with your thought system Pulsar; you're a thinking person who obviously just doesn't go along with the crowd and u do a bit of boat rocking which is fun but not harmful in the end.
one thing to remember about about those who preach, who have the title of minister, preacher, chaplain, priest, etc. bible scholars, etc. its all the same.

these are those with a certain behavior pattern. I too am among this pattern, so I'm not putting myself down for that either.
but heres the nitty gritty of that pattern of person: we all teach who we are to others just by our self expression.
the fact is we ALL teach what we need to learn.

so if you think on that for awhile its simple. that minister that you go to every Sunday to hear him or her preach, they are simply there to learn also what it is they are preaching about. so they are no more "worthy" or enlightened than you are.

anybody who comes to planet Earth is here because they are not perfect yet.

then you want to take that further concentrate on this if you believe in god, whatever that may be to you, god is love to me. "He sees the sparrow fall."
so, he sees us when we fall as we are more than a sparrow, each one.

and those that preach at you, even from a book, whatever, if they didn't have you to preach at, they would be up a creek without a paddle.
geez, there's nothing sadder than a preacher with no congregation, or worse yet, lol, a glassy eyed congregation whom the minister was the only one in touch with god and not able to bring god into the room for the others.

we should have a "rate your minister survey" maybe. love to all, alysia

@LaughingRain


Quote:

so if you think on that for awhile its simple. that minister that you go to every Sunday to hear him or her preach, they are simply there to learn also what it is they are preaching about. so they are no more "worthy" or enlightened than you are.

I do not see my self that much enlightened, to bring across another image, I found the candle, but lost the lighter. I would never dare to claim that I found answers that are more valuable than others answers. But that does not mean, that questioning things, that do not "fit" in my scheme is not allowed, it is not questioning to only reject (like in my preacher example, there it was very contradicting), but to understand, why or how these other view came about.
We are all seekers, and have a certain amount of knowledge, some have figured out more, some are on the way to figure out more, so to widen our knowledge, one talking and the others listening is not the only way to widen knowledge (it works for schools, universities, apprenticeships, etc.).
You are absolutely right, we can learn from each other, if we are willing to listen. It works only, if for this moment of "group evaluating" the own pov plays not the major role, but e.g. giving the chance for everyone to speak up, and accept every single view, no matter what it is like, with all rights and wrongs.
But it is not meant in the way to figure out a concept that fits for all, that would be the ideal situation, but more of an exchange, this way "flaws" in thinking can also be "solved". It is alsways exciting to learn about people this way.
This way could also be a possibility to get over

God is love, or has a never ending patience with our doings.
But he is also (never forget that I am slow in getting over old habits, so this whole system that I brought up is the idea of what god would be for me, if I really was a believer, I am not sure if I found out about him/her yet, or if he is there or not, again another sheet filled with theorizing).

and those that preach at you, even from a book, whatever, if they didn't have you to preach at, they would be up a creek without a paddle.


Quote:

geez, there's nothing sadder than a preacher with no congregation, or worse yet, lol, a glassy eyed congregation whom the minister was the only one in touch with god and not able to bring god into the room for the others.

Yes, that is exactly the other problem what I have/had with religion, that the words fly across the room, but the mind too deaf to go on thinking on what was heard.


Quote:

as regarding the fear of losing someone u love; you set them free, if they return to you they belong to you, if they don't, they were never yours. btw, sometimes there are certain people you need to set free as they don't need what you have to give them. we are all worthy of love though.

Worthy of love, yes, that is every single one of us, but everyone does in his/her own ability something, that is useful for others (does not match that with the meaning of love), to use another terminology, that is useful in three ways, you give something, another one takes it, and the divine principle is fulfilled.
I talked about proving oneself "worthy", sounds a little fascist, it is in harsh words, what I wrote in the sentence before. To make something out of this love given by the divine one/principle (of what I spoke in this pseudo-philosophical approach, the "giver and taker"-principle).


Quote:

then you want to take that further concentrate on this if you believe in god, whatever that may be to you, god is love to me. "He sees the sparrow fall." so, he sees us when we fall as we are more than a sparrow, each one.

What is god...another good question. I think of god being the ultimate, innermost truth of this whole existence, I don't know what it is, if it is undiscovered matter, if it is found within our mind, or something that is to fully discover when doing the transition.


Quote:

I don't see anything wrong with your thought system Pulsar; you're a thinking person who obviously just doesn't go along with the crowd and u do a bit of boat rocking which is fun but not harmful in the end.

What I really hope, that my future posts will be more than just boat rocking amusement, but I have to say you are right, there is too much quarrel going on, to be reliable. That has to change. There has to be more structure, too much of skipping from one point to another, so the overall sense sometimes get lost.
Matches perfectly with JG's signature "Too much knowledge without proper interpretation is borderline insanity". I think there would be more use to it if I would to bring it in the right order.

regards,

pulsar

I do not see my self that much enlightened, to bring across another image, I found the candle, but lost the lighter.
____
I can relate to the above ok. I get dream messages from time to time, designed only for my instruction but I like to pass them on and others will sometimes tell me their dream messages too. in the dream is usually an aha moment of fascinated attention on something which causes memory in the morning.  I had an upstairs at the time and on the staircase wall near the top was a chandelier fixture with crystals, and beautifully ornate. as the dream continued I said to myself, it has never worked, it needs fixing. it is useless therefore. just as I said that I was shown a switch. I flipped the switch and VIOLA!! it lit up like christmas was here and a voice reminded me I just hadn't known of the switch was there. so you didn't lose anything, too soon to say that something is lost. and like me you have the candle which can be lit. what you are expressing about losing the lighter, is the same thing (to me) as saying your cup is half empty. if you change that around to the cup is half full, u get the idea, that its a mental exercise which will create your reality. in time.
____
Pulsar said:
You are absolutely right, we can learn from each other, if we are willing to listen. It works only, if for this moment of "group evaluating" the own pov plays not the major role, but e.g. giving the chance for everyone to speak up, and accept every single view, no matter what it is like, with all rights and wrongs.
____
I saw an image of you sitting in a psychology class after I read this. have you sat in some? this is how they do it in group sessions.
_____
Pulsar said:
God is love, or has a never ending patience with our doings.
But he is also (never forget that I am slow in getting over old habits, so this whole system that I brought up is the idea of what god would be for me, if I really was a believer, I am not sure if I found out about him/her yet, or if he is there or not, again another sheet filled with theorizing).
____
nothing wrong with theorizing, we just call it interpreting around here. what I sometimes think of the word god. that the word is god, but as far as images goes, images can be useful tools, as in an artistic way, what I see us as cells in a body of god, then one can make jokes when bored about which part of gods body one is living in. so its not like god is anywhere "out there" unless you want to say god is the air we breath. the body cannot live without air provided to it, so we are in atmospheric god you might say, the more people that are in agreement about something, as say a prayer by one is powerful, but a prayer with two joined is more yet powerful, then think of a whole group joined in same intention and there you can see the power of god, a little like the group activity you mentioned earlier where people are listening to each other in earnest and not judging, then u will see a healing atmosphere develop as a natural occurrence. Healing is always contained within the thought of god.
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Alysia said: as regarding the fear of losing someone u love; you set them free, if they return to you they belong to you, if they don't, they were never yours. btw, sometimes there are certain people you need to set free as they don't need what you have to give them. we are all worthy of love though.
Pulsar:
Worthy of love, yes, that is every single one of us, but everyone does in his/her own ability something, that is useful for others (does not match that with the meaning of love)
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you seem to be talking about service to one another, either reflected in business concerns or in spiritual terms service to one another, it should have everything to do with love if it's based on undistorted or unconditional service values (love) but you're right we do not equate the feeling of love, with the feeling of being of service to another. yet. give us time. more or less talking about humanity's evolvement rather than just this board.
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Pulsar said:
I talked about proving oneself "worthy", sounds a little fascist, it is in harsh words, what I wrote in the sentence before. To make something out of this love given by the divine one/principle (of what I spoke in this pseudo-philosophical approach, the "giver and taker"-principle).
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maybe the extent of one's creative powers will be measured by their desire or their heart's yearning for fulfillment, which would mean, to me, a breaking out of habitual thought patterns which are insecurity producing. if I may continue to define god, I would say finding god would be like finding you've always been safe from harm but didnt realize it until now, that god followed every single step you took. as far as proving oneself worthy, there is a thought system out there we are experimenting here on Earth with our free will choices, we are always trying to prove something is true, when maybe its all true and its all false at the same time. we deal mostly with the five sensory senses here of the body, to collect our experiences. our thoughts are slowed down vibratory rate here in a body, its a very good place to prove oneself worthy, however you want to take that, we build ourselves here.
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lol, here is DP (my other self) preaching again: then you want to take that further concentrate on this if you believe in god, whatever that may be to you, god is love to me. "He sees the sparrow fall."
so, he sees us when we fall as we are more than a sparrow, each one.
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Pulsar said: What is god...another good question. I think of god being the ultimate, innermost truth of this whole existence, I don't know what it is, if it is undiscovered matter, if it is found within our mind, or something that is to fully discover when doing the transition.
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the question what is god is more like a path to follow over a lifetime, yet though some of us are more religious than others, still our scientists are the same, asking the question who and what are we? it is like asking what is god.
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Pulsar said;
What I really hope, that my future posts will be more than just boat rocking amusement
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I did not mean it that way you took it. I happen to love boat rockers exceedingly well as there are so few of them around.
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but I have to say you are right, there is too much quarrel going on, to be reliable.
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u mean on Earth in general? I'd agree. it is more like posturing and you can't take people seriously when it's all just pomp and circumstance, it is not reliable, then you have to get your answers from within yourself. all others do really, to help, is point a finger in some direction, which point you may arrive somewhere, only to see there is another reference point to begin again..movement seems paramount of importance here, mental, heart, and physical movement so to not get stuck and need retrieving! lol. you're doing ok.
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Pulsar said:
That has to change. There has to be more structure, too much of skipping from one point to another, so the overall sense sometimes get lost.
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oh, u just noticed that did you?  ;) its always been a skip hop and a jump around here Pulsar, not likely to change either. thats why I said your answers will begin to come from within you, then what others are talking about makes more sense gradually.
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all in all though it's a fine place to think outloud and sometimes someone responds, reaching across miles of spacial distance and it's like they are in the same room with you..gotta love the internet tool of communication and this board of regulars.

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