I found this article from Time magazine deeply moving:


http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1655415,00.html


In it, is described how Mother Teresa, who ministered to the poorest of the poor, and epitomized charity and love for one's fellow human being, had, for many decades a  "dark night of the soul," as it were - feeling a disconnect from God and Heaven, even coming to doubt the existence.  I was a bit appalled that her private confessions were kept and released against her wishes - it seems that common respect would have kept the confessions in confidence.  

However, I am interested in the opinions of others on this story.  Many spiritual christians on this website believe that the two most important practices in life are love of God and love of one's fellow human beings.  Mother Teresa epitomized both, at least as far as one could see, however, she did not, apparently feel the connectedness that went along with her good works - for many, many years.


Matthew

Greetings,

I find that a connection to the spiritual can be felt as a physical force. Force isn't a good word, more like receiving a beam of love, at least that's how it seems to me. But in my experience the feeling isn't always available, due to distractions, being too tired, etc.

Mother Teresa must have felt it more strongly and much more of the time, until she got just too exhausted. Her body too is 'a temple' and she was letting the temple get rundown. Then she attributed the loss of the sensation of connection to a loss of God Himself, rather than to her own exhausted ability to receive God's love. She mistakenly thought it/God was gone or that she'd previously deluded herself.
Her test was that even while she was exhausted by the work and her inability to feel the connection, she still had enough faith in it that she continued her service, her selflessness.
(I'm trying to use terms compatible with her faith.)
Later she realized it was her error as a broken receptor and not God's withdrawal or non-existence, so she asked that her mistaken doubt not be revealed.
She is certainly not diminished in my eyes!

(I seem to recall that her note regarding this was previously published in a biography; that's how I happen to have already thought about it.)

Bets

Hey DocM,

it is for sure astonishing to read about such experiences as felt as a disconnection between God and a saint like Mother Teresa.
But doubts are even a part of believing, even believers ask themselves if that what they are doing is wether right or wrong.
Maybe it was kind of asking herself, if it was enough she has done to gather gods love, it really sounds like she was on a journey to the ultimate truth about God and life itself, and if there are no proper answers (it is comparable to the doubts that also appear on this board about god, the afterlife and their existence), it is outsourcing, so to say, a "dark night of the soul". For me it is not that god was absent, just her doubts have overgrown the feeling of being part of him.

If believing had been nonsense for her, she would have quittet the service she was doing and searched for something else. But it seems that it was a serious issue for her, being with god (if it was the other way around she would not have helped in his name.
Referring to the sentence "I want you to pray for me", it is best expressed, she seemed to think of herself not being able to connect with god, maybe we could talk of lacking guidance, maybe she desired more of it, and by being unfulfilled, it felt like being an empty shell, that is forsaken, kind of a lacking affirmation (for her) of the divine one.

But doubts and believe go hand in hand, doubts are there to make you search for your true, innermost deeply beliefs, and to find out, what they are, what does not mean, that the ansers reveal just the very moment you search for them, like it was for her, they were fellows for decades!
So feeling to have lost the touch, means not actually that god let her down.
Maybe it is more difficult for people like her to find pleasing arguments and answers, could be really like she searched for a deeper relationship, than that she towards god, and so for her it felt like falling apart from him. She thought she was incapable, I think she was not forsaken, just sort of broken.

Stupid as it sounds, life is full of ups and downs, for some the downs last much longer.

Love,

pulsar

At risk of flying in the face of the received view and not knowing anything about Mother T's inner life it's possible to theorise as to why she might have felt herself in that situation.

Quite apart from sainthood or whatever she seems to have been an incredibly driven person holding orthodox Catholic beliefs.

To pick up on your points - the feeling of connection with God is as B says an intuitive one which can be blocked by stress - although my sense is that it's maybe mental intensity rather than illness per se that does the harm. When the mind is churning ninety to the dozen the resulting 'noise' shuts blocks subtler knowing.

Catholicism emphasises blind faith based on belief rather than faith based on personal experience and insight. The vibe is heavily blame oriented too. Meaning that the guilt that might follow strenuous efforts to believe which failed to deliver a feeling of connection to God might further depress the mood and add to mental noise, contributing further to a feeling of being cut off from God.

Another factor might have been the nature of her spiritual practice. For the above reason Catholicism has not tended to emphasise the inner life, meaning that she may or may not have had access to the self knowledge tools a more Gnostic tradition might have provided.

I guess it's perfectly possible for her to have been driven to serve and to live a highly devout life, and yet to have struggled to feel a live connection to God...

Perhaps she was more of a believer and service Soul, rather than a mystic.  Unless our beliefs are backed by mystical experience, they are liable to be challenged.

It could also be that early on in her life she was inspired to help, but later on it became more of a duty, partly to maintain her reputation.

It could be that things became a bit ritualistic. I don't remember the exact details, but I remember reading once that her sisters would get up early every morning so they could pray for four hours. I've found this isn't a positive approach to spirituality. It is better to pray/meditate according to need and inspiration, not according to an enforced schedule. Eventually things can become dry. When a meditation session doesn't feel productive, I stop.

She also exposed herself to the energy of a lot of sad and sick people. This is liable to take its toll after a while. An improper diet, possibly due to the places she lived, also could of had an effect.

I receive lots of energetic work from the spirit of Christ. This certainly helps me. I wonder if she opened herself up to such help.

There is also the factor of whether or not she included in her spirituality, the practice of letting go of though patterns that effected her in a non-positive way. For example, if she had some traumatic issues from her childhood (I have no way of knowing about this), and she didn't clear them up, they might've festered within her energetic system. I've found that when it comes to becoming spiritually clear, Christ can't do his part, if I don't do my part.

Hi matthew and all  I think Mother Teresa was a beautiful soul as she showed throughout all of her life that she was human in evry aspect of being troubled by her faith and feeling abandonded by God as so many of us have felt at certain times in our life but she just kept opening her heart through all of these doubts and fears to the sick and dieing and povertry stricken with the love of God which was radiating from her soul and from her heart.

God walked beside her through all of this,even though she felt the darkness and we all have felt that but through that darkness God is giving the light to overshadow the darkness from our souls to light our way to  the love we give out to others in this world,they say that angels walk among us and i think that Mother Teresa was an angel sent from heaven.

Love and God bless        love juditha

hate to possibly burst the bubble, but i don't think mother theresa was the saintly person she portrayed herself as.  more like a scamming sadist.  here's a video on the kind of conditions she actually put people in:  http://youtube.com/watch?v=8q1m-8npkJ4 (contains profanity)

also gandhi did great things, but was a racist - http://youtube.com/watch?v=j-QK35hYIWo&mode=related&search= (also profanity)

Hey there,

you surely heard about (catholic) groups practicing self-chastisement, in order to feel the pain e.g. Jesus must have felt during trial (passed by Pilate, after he was found quilty for being a blasphemer by Kaiphas) and the cruzifiction. Seems like it is some kind of "meditation" to feel closer to god, it is also sort of a self-punishment for sinning.

That's a tough one, seeker, so it seems to be really a bubble..

Could be that she thought of this suffering to be her personal burden, in order to get nearer to god (there is not much said about this in the article or the videos), so one could make the assumption that she also wanted to pass her burden on the ones she helped (could be that she blamed them for this).
As she suffered from a "mental issue", I might be why she began to treat her "patients" like she did, it is not new knowledge that mental suffering can twist someones head, and make him turn away from "reality", in order to live in the world, he/she assumes to be his/her reality.
But again concerning why she should have went on with work in the name of god?
In the end, it is possible that the downphase in her life was kind of burden given by god, so suffering in order to rely on him, no matter what is between them, so she might have thought her "patients" must go through the same issue.

Please do not mistake this as an apology for such kind of behaviour, since it is wrong to make people suffer, even for Mother Teresa, since they depended on her help.
This place for the dying was not a place for last goodbyes, it was more of a pre-hell... .

Love,

pulsar

I think I'm with Bets on this one. Mother Theresa is like a social worker who also happens to have religion. what frequently happens of a natural course in the helping fields, which includes nurses, social workers, counselors, probation officers, etc. is a thing called burn out. when that happens they will either get into another line of work or go into that soul searching, perhaps like a dark night of the soul, as their existence and identity is tied up in what they are doing, and frankly, people in these helping fields will go through phases where it looks like everything you say and do is just not working to help (fill in the blank)

when this happens, I say its natural, because before you can help another, whether it's a spiritual business, or your career in any field, you have to take care of yourself first or the body organism will suffer itself the same, with the defeatist thoughts. and it's true, that if you feel tired you should take a nap. Driven people, inspired people don't take naps, or breaks to reconnect with the source of life, whether that is nature, or their god.

love, alysia

It's tough to read what the situation was from external observation. In the eastern traditions people regarded as truly realised often demonstrate an ability to handle a prodigious workload with ease. Others get sick. Many demonstrate a quietly but steadily productive lifestyle.

It's probably true though that we often confuse simplistic worldly 'bigger is better, more even more so' perceptions of success with true spirituality. The more realistic perspective of the 'flap of a butterfly's wing in one place through a chain of ever widening  cause and consequence causing a hurricane somewhere else six months later' (my own approximation of the well known saying) is probably normally more like the truth.

Except perhaps when the creation of a clear figurehead is needed to inspire people to respond to a new message or whatever.

Meaning that a truly realised person may either through insight or guidance (both - the same?) by very subtle intervention in the flow of events have a major effect on the development of world conciousness or events. Or may become a historical figure. But the latter isn't necessary.

Jesus for example probably only taught for a few years......

Hey there,

have to agree on the "burn out" point, made by Alysia. There has to be rest, or else it will turn out negative.
But it is maybe too much in our heads, that we have to be on the standby-mode, so that we are available if someone pushs the button.
But it really happens to be, like it was said before, that if you really found a task you like to fulfill and your on it with your heart and soul, you mostly ignore the signs, if they are made by the body or the mind, in order not to let down the ones that depend on your work. It's really like "check yourself before you wreck yourself"?!

So who helps the helpers?

Love,

pulsar

There's a view P that compassion to others first requires compassion towards yourself. While it's often couched in high flown rhetoric you could argue that  undisciplined and unsustainable over commitment to work is an indicator of being driven by conditioning or an egotistical need to be 'something' rather than the heart or something higher...

Hey there,

varja, that is what exactly what begins to fade away, real compassion.
But sad to say that, what we get taught regularly, over-self-confidence, craving to be, you called it "something" (someone), that we can rely on.
Is this something out of that what the majority claims to be right, you would be immediately nothing, how stupid... .
This conditioning thing is what we shall get used to, routine, to function like a machine (that is what I consider the issue that has brought her to the "dark night of the soul", I mean, you can give a certain amount of love, if you do something by heart, but there must be time to refresh, to regain energy, that you can go on to pass love) , so this turns into a race, who is no.1? I am pretty sure it could also work if we would see it like everyone gives his/her contribution to the world, in how far he/she is capable of, without making it a competition.
There is too much focus on success and money (even if we need it here, in a certain amount to have a living), everyone is only a number in a big pile of registration formulas, we could make it also work if there was more "feelings" involved, an interest in which persons around one works with, in my pov it would state a positive "climate".
Human became too much of a god, so we lost that ouf of the mind.

I would go that far to say, egotistical behaviour indicates lack of self-compassion, and the need to be the best in order to show that you have "balls". It is a way to overcome hating oneself, but not the right one.
But driven by the idea always to win, you would immediately make others hate you.

Maybe our heart is wiser than our mind.

Love,

pulsar

You are all being very insightful

and I'm glad to be learning alot from you,
but just want to add a bit to what vajra said:

         "Except perhaps when the creation of a clear figurehead is needed
          to inspire people to respond to a new message or whatever."

Two resulting thoughts come to mind from what you say, vajra.
Before MT,  many or most of these poor souls were not helped; she did;
maybe our standards or expectations of ourselves and others are
too high, maybe one does not have to be perfect to do alot of good.

Bets

I guess the magical thing about the way this total reality works B is that everything is arguably exactly what it needs to be for the ultimate good of all.

Just theorising, but you could argue that among the many many dimensions that determine that total picture:

Mother T maybe wasn't (despite the Church hopping on the bandwagon and her ending up a media celebrity and probably a saint) realised, but on the other hand she probably learned (or was exposed to) exactly the lessons she needed to truly care more about herself.

The church in the meantime was helped (and it's probably important that there's a simple stable system of conventional belief around for those needing rules), but on the other hand maybe reminded of the need to stick with the basics.

She in the meantime did good work for some created additional awareness of the situation of the poor in an uncaring world. Many of the poor have their own lessons to learn out of being poor, but compassion is really important in the mix because it lessens the likelihood that having escaped that their response will be to put down others out of fear of its happening again....

Hey bets,

there is no doubt that she was a caring person, and it what obviously not the intend of this topic to point her out as cruel or something else.
It was more the fact, that a person, that is now known as a saint, had suffered from feelings of being not connected by god, doubting religion at all, for quite a time during her work, and what was said by DocM, the spiritual key to god, that some users see in sharing love and living amongst love.

I found it striking to hear and read about this crisis, since her work impressed me much, I made some (maybe stupid) assumptions how it came to that, and if it had any bad influences on the ones that she helped.
What I also consider to be a bit of a hypocritical argument, that she started "a cult of suffering".

Love,

pulsar

Ditto the idea was not to be negative. But so much of what is broadly rational  in spiritual terms actually sounds insulting by when judged by societal norms/conventions which are basically designed to avoid ruffling egos.

Should the suggestion that she was not a realised person be true the likelihood is that she had to be really determined to overcome her crises. It seems likely that a fully realised person by comparison would have had a much easier ride - they are generally regarded as having developed some equanimity about their circumstances and hence to tend to both stay out of hassle and to find life  relatively un-stressful...

I tend to look at Job in the bible as a journey of the common person so in that way I don't  see M.Theresa as any different light than you or I. if you look at a persons act and behavior, it probably says more about their measure of enlightenment than the media, wow, the media and some books I've seen are not at all enlightened, so its the media's job to find dirt as they love to knock someone down to their level, as indicated by people who inspire people start needing body guards.

The article on Mother Teresa was really interesting.

I'm not a fan of hers. I don't doubt that many people have benefitted from the work of her and her group. But I have serious philosophical differences with the framework from which she worked and I'm not sure of the meaning of it all....(like, how could she not support birth control when she saw so much suffering? OK I can agree with her not supporting abortion, but birth control?). I don't think she was a saint. The one unique thing she did was get a bunch of momentum going on giving a certain kind of help....

But I used to think, gee, she really doesn't come across as very happy. Now I know why.

So this article was really insightful. I actually feel sympathy for her. This is classic Dark Night of the Soul. What made it convincing was that she felt guided, and then the guidance vaporised. I hope she has found some redemption for that. I guess I've never had a Dark Night exactly like that. I've felt abandoned by life. But I never thought I heard God's voice in my ear and so then I've never had it disappear on me. I've felt abandoned by people, which is bad enough, but what if you thought you had this thing going with God, you know, like going to the garden alone and hearing the voice on your ear. And then you go the next day, and woops, no voice! and this goes on...hey that could be pretty darn depressing!

(how come scientists think OBE's are a neurological abberation but they won't comment on this God's voice in the ear thing?)

I don't know if I agree that a fully realized person would have an easier ride. It would depend on the purpose for the lifetime and what you chose beforehand to remember about the other side....or you can agree with Gary Renard that Jesus the Christ was the only fully-realised person who has been here.

She's done good and she's done bad.. Just like the rest of us.. She's merely human and not a saint..

peace

the_seeker wrote on Aug 25^th, 2007 at 2:26am:

hate to possibly burst the bubble, but i don't think mother theresa was the saintly person she portrayed herself as.  more like a scamming sadist.  here's a video on the kind of conditions she actually put people in:  http://youtube.com/watch?v=8q1m-8npkJ4 (contains profanity) also gandhi did great things, but was a racist - http://youtube.com/watch?v=j-QK35hYIWo&mode=related&search= (also profanity)

Well! What can I say. Nothing surprises me about christianity. It is common knowledge now that
the millions upon millions she received from the public she (was forcefully? most probably
willingly) gave to the vatican, who like their ever present hypocrptical self stored into their
vast treasure houses....In World War 2, when Italy surrendered in 1943 and the Germans
took over the country, they declared the area around the vatican an independent, off-limits,
neutral area. Why? The German had deposited billions of looted gold, monies, and other
treasures there(Vatican Bank)and the pope and others knew about it. What did they do? Nothing! It was
earning them so much interest. A lot of unclaimed accounts still remain there today. The real
owners dead, and the german government too embarrassed to collect it!!! Although I did
hear that germany has the largest gold reserves in the world, I always thought it was Fort
Knox, USA. (I'll check up on this)

To get back to the thread, I knew about the appalling conditions the sick were being cared
for, when an american student voluntered to work in her calcutta hospice. She left after
two days, absolutely shocked. Nearly all of the patients were not given pain relief, and
other medicines including anti-biotics when she had(donated by pharmacutical companies)
storehouses of them. They were sold off to the public and others and the money used for
whatever selfish purpose the catholic heirachy there had in mind. But. When visiting press
and politicians visited her hospice, suddenly all the sick were given pain relief and sedated.
They must looked to be in bliss, just for the cameras :'(  This was in the 1980's . ..Darth.
 May both sides of the force be with you...ps. Get rid of all established major religions and
the world will be a better place. Start with teaching kids at primary school age to tolerate and
help each other(without some mythical god to worship and fear)....If there is a real Creator(s)
this would be the greatest gift to him/her!

that's interesting, darth.  well things aren't always as they seem with people.  some very "mean" people are actually great people, and some "saintly" people aren't saintly at all.  

I haven't read the Time article, nor anything much more about the lady but I too would suggest that her behaviour (as in the case of all of us) reflected the level of her consciousness. It's very probable that for her only blind obedience to the church was possible.

There's lots that think God talks to them but instead hear the mutterings of the ego, there's more that are talked to but can't hear (all of us?) .

This is a bit theoretical and draws on Eastern ideas as to the nature of realisation, but 'easier ride' for  a realised person doesn't necessarily mean that life circumstances are any different or easier (although as said that depends heavily on what their life purpose is), only that it's subjectively easier due to their having become easy with whatever happens in their life.

It's pretty scarifying all right Darth what the Church has done in the name of God over the ages. The one positive is that maybe it's behaved at a level that reflected the consciousness of the society as a whole - which really wasn't able (except in the case of a very tiny minority) to use teachings at a level higher than simple rules.

The story (as told by many historians) is that what became the Pauline or Roman Catholic church had within sixty years of his crucifiction substituted the gnostic/esoteric/personal path based christianity almost certainly taught by Jesus with a 100% worldly, external and rule based system of blind belief focused on building temporal power for the institution and its leaders.

The book I referenced here under 'What did Jesus Really Teach? a few days ago sets out a very carefully researched and told version of the story : http://www.afterlife-knowledge.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1187996237

It seems they killed his older brother James to get the upper hand in Jerusalem.

I have now seen how Don is marshalling his armies together, implying in other threads that I, by posting this article, had a set intention to malign a saintly Mother Teresa for some New Age agenda. Nothing could be further from the truth.  I am more disappointed in him, and his unloving attitude toward posters on this site than anything else.  Don, you can not come here and unload your venom on us and then act/feel lovingly only amongst your flock; to act in a loving/spiritual manner necessarily implies that it is not so biased or conditional - otherwise you are caught in the quagmire of "us vs. them," and miss the point about loving acts entirely.

But I digress.  The article in Time moved me, as I had not read up on Mother Teresa previously, and as such, I found her prolonged "dark night of the soul," to be both intriguing and illuminating.  Rather than enter the discussion on this topic, Don chooses to see my posting as a deliberate anti-Teresa/anti-christian commentary.  Rubbish.  For those of you who don't know me, who have any doubt about my intentions, read through my past posts and you will see that I am supportive of both christianity as a path to spirituality and to the need for civility and decorum on this board - I vehemently oppose blind bashing of the religion or faith of another.  I have notified the moderators of threads which were anti-christian or hateful to christianity or another religion and asked that they be moved or removed.

Don's anger regarding the existence of this thread is particularly telling.  Why, you may ask?  Because it is a sign of the struggle in all of us to integrate love on one's neighbour and love of God into our lives.  There is no shame in this struggle, and no reason that knowing that Mother Teresa had a prolonged struggle in any way detracts from her earthly charity and accomplishments.  Why would Mother Teresa not feel God's presence or prolonged joy as she cared for the sickest of the sick, the most down-trodden of men and women?  Some answers have already been given by posters.  Admittedly, some who have posted have their own anti-religious/christian take, but that was not what I was after in posting this thread.

There is a joy we are all meant to experience in life, simply by its living.  An unbridled joy which in no way detracts from our compassion toward others or our love of God.  No guilt should rightfully be associated with this joy in living and being incarnate, and the deliberate denial of this joy of our own existence and participation in the world sometimes sets up a conflict in us that distances each of us from God and the divine.  In response, some will deny themselves all earthly pleasures, figuring there is divinity in suffering.  I can not say whether MT felt compelled to go down this path, but this was one of the conversations I hoped to get started here.  

My main intention in starting this thread was to stimulate discussion about the disconnect between earthly actions and spirituality.  It is not enough to walk the walk to have a personal connection with God, or feel that connection.  Swedenborg, Don's most coroborated source agrees with those he calls "New Age wackadoodles"  in saying that love is our main reason for being - love of God and love of one's fellow man.  But earthly acts of charity - going down a path of service to others, while being noble, and seeming to fulfill the criteria of love, does not guarantee the inner connectedness some people feel to the divine and God's presence.  Sometimes even "walking the walk," leaves us empty - and a discussion of that idea, is what I am looking for in this thread.

Matthew

It seems that some of what I and others have posted in good faith about Mother T and orthodox conservative Christianity may have offended some. Please accept my genuine apology if that is the case - it wasn't and isn't my purpose in posting views which actually were intended as a possible explanation for what she experienced.

I should perhaps clarify some things though.

While I've been influenced by Eastern and recent thought my caution regarding orthodox conservative Christianity (and other dogmatic forms of religion) does not mean that I in any way disrespect Jesus, or as has been suggested somehow fail to love God.  Nor that I've been infected by some sort of chronic New Age gullibility.

The difficulty is that I can't in conscience and from knowledge accept as absolute truth religions that for a variety of questionable reasons regard the search for self knowledge (and hence the experience of love, God and our place in the cosmos) as anathema, demand blind belief in the totality of a fixed dogma (never mind that there's many  - yet all claim truth), refuse dialogue with other traditions for  risk of pollution, are not open to debate regarding he nature of God and who Jesus was, and talk of the love of God while relating to him as a vengeful old man.

I likewise struggle with the culture of dictation, hypersensitivity and reliance on absolutist intellectual  interpretation of written word that tends to surround these  traditions - the resulting one way street makes meaningful dialogue and mutual learning tough.

My view is that the sooner humanity can transition from living from fear and dogma and in thrall to these interests to a situation where life is lived lightly, lovingly and joyfully in a spirit of personal spiritual search and enquiry - where behaviours are no longer driven by blind belief but based on personal spiritual responsibility and experience  - the sooner the atrocities committed in their names will end.

On the basis that having opened to experience love it becomes almost impossible for a person to do serious harm to another.

Daily life stands to improve so much too. As matters stand we're so hell bent on protecting and enlarging 'self' and all that concept entails that we seem to have lost sight of what love means in daily life - most seem incapable of leaving vacant the loving space others need to if they are to express themselves, and to gain knowledge. We've created a society of selfish clamouring egos.

Some regard anything said about their tradition that can be regarded in any way as critical as offensive and disrespectful. While it's hard to argue against the reality of this response, it's equally hard to see how a moratorium on the expression of such opinions serves any greater good.

Anyway. That's about it as to say more seems likely to cause further offence. My love to you all...

Quote:

My main intention in starting this thread was to stimulate discussion about the disconnect between earthly actions and spirituality.  It is not enough to walk the walk to have a personal connection with God, or feel that connection.  Swedenborg, Don's most coroborated source agrees with those he calls "New Age wackadoodles"  in saying that love is our main reason for being - love of God and love of one's fellow man.  But earthly acts of charity - going down a path of service to others, while being noble, and seeming to fulfill the criteria of love, does not guarantee the inner connectedness some people feel to the divine and God's presence.  Sometimes even "walking the walk," leaves us empty - and a discussion of that idea, is what I am looking for in this thread.

I am more intrigued with the Dark Night aspect but this aspect is pretty interesting too. Maybe they are interconnected.

The other night...well actualy it as early morning and I had woken up and gone back to sleep, classic conditions...I had a very lucid dream. Well, very for me. I knew I was dreaming! I was talking to myself..."Hey I'm dreaming!"...and just grooving with the dream as it unfolded. What was amazing was that this time telling myself I was dreaming did not cause me to wake up as it has in the past. I can also distinguish this experience from the ones where I get the electric tingles and hear roars; none of that happened. Other than being aware fo dreaming, it was a normal dream. The hard part is, I don't know how to get back there.

So on a larger scale, that happened to MT when she couldn't hear God's direction any more (you have to read the article!).

Now good works didn't get her back there to hearing the guidance. That is an interesting observation. So what is the point of good works?

On my much more mundane level, I am learning that when I feel bad that doing something for someone else can relieve some of the pain. Maybe it is just the act of taking the focus off myself that works. But there must be more to it tha that because service is a well-accepted path in many traditions.

Maybe the mistake is expecting the contact to last. There is an idea from Eatern traditions that says, what do you do before Enlightenment? Chop wood, carry water. What do you do after Enlightenment? Chop wood, carry water.

The Pope's take in the news today:

LORETO, Italy (Reuters) - Pope Benedict said on Saturday that even the late Mother Teresa of Calcutta "suffered from the silence of God" despite her immense charity and faith.

The Pope, addressing a youth rally in central Italy, referred to a new book that reveals that the Roman Catholic nun was deeply tormented about her faith and suffered periods of doubt about God.

It is significant that the Pope mentioned Mother Teresa's torment about God's silence as not being unusual because there was some speculation that the letters could hurt the procedure to make her a saint.

"All believers know about the silence of God," he said in unprepared remarks. "Even Mother Teresa, with all her charity and force of faith, suffered from the silence of God," he said.

He said believers sometimes had to withstand the silence of God in order to understand the situation of people who do not believe.

Due out on September 4, the book, "Mother Teresa: Come Be My Light" is a collection of letters written to colleagues and superiors over 66 years.

The ethnic Albanian nun, who dedicated her life to poor, sick and dying in India, died in 1997 aged 87.

Mother Teresa had wanted all her letters destroyed, but the Vatican ordered they be preserved as potential relics of a saint, according to a spokeswoman for Doubleday, the U.S. publisher of the book.

Mother Teresa has been beatified but has not yet been made a saint.

Time magazine, which has first serial rights, published excerpts on its Web site last month.

When the German-born pontiff visited the former Nazi concentration camp at Auschwitz last year, he publicly asked why God was silent when 1.5 million victims, mostly Jews, died there.

Hi matthew and all I sometimes think that when God is silent,that he has been there but because of the suffering ,hurt and the pain,we need him more than ever and want God so much to come and end the suffering ,fear and pain that we think he is not listening,but i have always felt that God does come to our aid with his love when we die,our spirits rise into a beautiful existance with our loving God with spirit into what God wanted for us ,a world of beauty and love and no more suffering as our dear saviour Jesus died on the cross and took all the sins of the world and suffered for us so that we could join him in the spirit with God.

I read this story of a Jewish Man who died with lots of children and adults and said of the fear in there and the tears especially from those beautiful little children and as it happened in there ,he started to rise out of his body as so did the others and the children and as there spirits were rising there was this most beautiful light opening up to receive them.

 This light was giving so much love and as he looked down he saw all the bodys ,which he said  looked like a load of discarded rags,so God is listening and watching even when we dont think he is.Ready to deliver us from evil as it says in the Lords prayer.God's love is unconditional for all of his children.

When the German-born pontiff visited the former Nazi concentration camp at Auschwitz last year, he publicly asked why God was silent when 1.5 million victims, mostly Jews, died there.

Love and God bless    Love juditha

I guess Juditha that it seems very likely that what appears to us as silence is in fact a problem of faulty reception on our part. This caused by the internal static created when we get stressed out about what's going on around us.

When we stop trusting that all is happening as it's meant to be. Because we're looking at a situation from a partial (usually egotistical) perspective which fails to see why it's in fact exactly what we or others need.

The prospect of death for example is pretty scarifying from our normal egotistical perspective, but in truth is of no consequence if we can see that (a) it's teaching a needed lesson or is otherwise to the higher/greatest good and (b) that it can't harm us.

It's kind of amazing the way we jump between states of consciousness that change the way we see our situation. Many give their lives to save others when they make snap judgements to act before the ego has time to kick in. Or manage to do incredible work for others  - maintaining motivation through an act of will in the gaps where the 'static' leaves them open to doubt. Some very highly realised individuals (one of the Indian holy men comes to mind) have such a strong connection that they perfectly light heartedly and matter of factly take on illnesses of people they wish to help - their 'knowing is so clear that the prospect of personal harm doesn't worry them a bit.

Most of us I suspect alternate between patches of knowing we are loved, getting by on stuff that temporarily makes the ego feel good and feeling lost.

This is probably why as posted elsewhere that reaching this state of experiential knowing is so important for humanity - as well as health implications atrocities can follow when individuals become so disconnected from God that their fear takes over and they are driven to act selfishly.....