I had this crazy idea.  

Maybe some of you I heard about this experiment with people who have lost a part of their arm during an accident.  Even if the arm his cut and gone, they often continue to feel pain in the lost part.  

So someone had the idea to that if the mind "believe" that the arm is still there, the pain would go away.  With the use of mirrors, they used  the reflexion of healthy arm, to "complement" the other one.  The subject have the illusion that both arm are intact and immediately the pain goes away!!

So tricking our vision, can have wonderful consequence.  My idea is this one:  With a normal webcam, we are all able to see ourselves in realtime.  With a technique called "augmented reality", used in computer engineering, we can had graphic overlay over a specific target.  If we move the target, the graphic fellow has if it was part of the reality.  

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Lfp8id6bpDU  

With this technique, I would like to use my chest ( heart area ) has the target.  After, I would like to add some very nice energy animation going out of my heart.  So I think, the result would be like visualizing energy from my heart chakra (traditional energy work), but with a much more impact because the use of the our vision would be use.  

   

Well worth a try I'd say PM. I started out sceptical about the use of for example visualisation as a part of spiritual practice, but over time it's become clear that it's just a way to direct the creativity of mind. And as such it's very effective.....

That's fascinating, Phantasy Man!

It could lead to a whole new field of developing human potential!

The PUL love that is outpoured through the heart is channelled from a greater source that beams into the top of the head of the PUL-er, don't forget.  
Wait!-- at some point (I don't know if it's simultaneously) the PUL-er has to receive what they then divert to others. Animating this force from 'God' would be its own experiment, to see if 'God' likes to be 'cartooned.'   :D   ;)   :question

Betson

PhantasyMan,

Interesting idea!  I just wanted to add a little about an interesting technology that can image "phantom limbs."  There's a guy in England named Harry Oldfield who has invented and developed something he calls Polycontrast Interference Photography (PIP).  It is a computer program that processes ordinary video camera images in near real-time to provide images of energy fields.  This is not one of those "carnival ride" aura cameras you see at psychic fairs, but the real deal.

One of the things Oldfield's PIP system can do is related to your post.  One rather stunning image was of a man whose left arm had been amputated between the shoulder and elbow.  The image from the PIP system clearly shows the man's nonphysical arm, hand and fingers below the point of amputation.  Any question about the existence of "phantom limbs" is eliminated by seeing these kind of images.

After witnessing Oldfield's system at a conference in Boulder, CO I became curious about how it worked.  Using an old Cannon digital camera combined with some image processing software I wrote I began experimenting with "phantom leaf" pictures.  

Using freshly picked leaves I first took a picture of the uncut leaf, then snipped out a section, and took another picture.  Then I ran the image of the leaf with a section missing through the image processing software I wrote.  What I was looking for was any indication of the "leaf aura" where the physical leaf was missing.  To my surprise some of these images actually show some leaf vein structures where the physical leaf is missing!  By comparing the before and after photos I can see that the vein structures of the missing leaf are in same locations as the actual physical leaf veins in the uncut leaf.

My rudimentary experiments appear to confirm validity of Oldfield's PIP system and that those old Kirlian photos of phantom leaves are imaging a real phenomenon.  

I have shared my experiments with Oldfield and out of respect for his intellectual property I have agreed not to share information about how I process the image data.

Bruce

Greetings Bruce,

You say  sometimes  the leaves showed their phantom form.  ---Would the vitality of the plant be a determining factor, rather than any blame at the process or processor? So if one was careful to take speciman leaves only from very vital plants, the rate of success might go up?  
;)  Please do not weaken Pharron's houseplants by removing them from sun and water before clipping off more of their leaves! My thought was just to suggest a possible way to get a stronger statistical showing.

Bets  

Bets,

The house plants are safe, I used freashly picked leaves from a cottonwood tree.  Plant vitality, according to Mr. Oldfield, is critical so my experiments to date, using picked leaves, are less than ideal.  Oldfield claims that it is next to impossible to get these phantom images using anything other than organically grown plants.  

In future experiments I plan to grow bean plants and take the pictures with the leaves still attached to the plant.  Those experiments will have to wait a while though as we are in the process of moving to Puerto Rico.  We won't be settled in there for a couple of months yet.

Bruce

PhantasyMan,

I know the mirror therapy you are referring to.  I wouldn't say the pain went away immediately.  You see, it is not a trick of the eyes, it is a trick of the brain.  The man with the missing arm had real pain even though he no longer had a physical arm.  His brain did not know the difference between pain in a physical arm and pain in a missing arm.  When he was able to see his missing arm due to the mirrors, he was then able to open his hand and squeeze his fist in exercises that worked on that area of the brain that was feeling the pain.  This worked on the nerve areas that were responsible for the pain he felt, and eventually the pain was relieved.  The doctor who suggested the therapy to him explained that the brain can "misplace" pain to another area in the brain to make up for the part of the brain that would have felt pain in the physical arm.  By this explanation, the pain the man felt was actual pain, being in a slightly different location than physical arm pain would have been.  This is the way I understood it when I saw the therapy you're talking about.  I could be wrong, I'm no doctor, but this is how it made sense to me.  

I believe it would have been just as effective if the patient had learned how to visualize in his mind him moving his missing arm in the same exercises.  

[Bruce]

Thanks for sharing about PIP technology.  I must say that I very curious about it.  I did some search on google and found some pictures about it.  I would like to try it by myself, unfortunately, the secret about how it really work is not told.  But anyway, I found some basics informations and I have ideas how it can be achieve.


Quote:

I have shared my experiments with Oldfield and out of respect for his intellectual property I have agreed not to share information about how I process the image data.

Even if you don't share the HowTo information, are you able to post those pictures you were talking about?

[Betson]


Quote:

own experiment, to see if 'God' likes to be 'cartooned.

;D  If it's our way to experience it, it should be ok :)  I think it's a nice way to "use" our interpretor to perceive and experience new things!

[Vicky]

The way the doctor is ok, but from my personal point of view, I don't think the pain is "in the brain".  I see the wonderful brain architecture as a bi-directional interface between the body and mind.  I think that if the brain condition is ok, the most part of the pain come from the mind itself. Maybe it's the same think for those who have unexplained chronic pain.  

 
Quote:

I believe it would have been just as effective if the patient had learned how to visualize in his mind him moving his missing arm in the same exercises.

I agree with you.  A long as the brain is ok and the intention is there, visualization he a powerful tool.  

By the way, if you remember the doctor name or if you have a keywork to find information about the experiment, I would take it :)   I heard about that few years ago, and I would like to find more about it!  


Love to all

Quote:

By the way, if you remember the doctor name or if you have a keywork to find information about the experiment, I would take it Smiley   I heard about that few years ago, and I would like to find more about it!

;D  That so funny.  I just received my edition of American Science Mind and there is a big article on the experiment of the phantom limb.  It looks like that my intension to receive informations about it worked :)

Darth Here. I'm surprised Bruce fell so easily for PIP. See http://www.raygirvan.co.uk/apoth/2005_01_01_arc.html
for an explanation. I believe he charges $5,000+ for the
software. Another New Age "Snake Oil Salesman" with
"Miracle" scientific gadgets for sale to the gullible!!
Darth. May Both Sides Of The Force Be With You. :)

Well indeed Darth, this digital image processing method is a simple effect known to everyone who has some experience with the average software. But it wouldn't show the missing part of a leaf, or if it does, then there must be something which was already there before the processing, only not to be seen that clearly.

Spooky

spooky2 wrote on Sep 8^th, 2007 at 8:46pm:

Well indeed Darth, this digital image processing method is a simple effect known to everyone who has some experience with the average software. But it wouldn't show the missing part of a leaf, or if it does, then there must be something which was already there before the processing, only not to be seen that clearly. Spooky

Well. Where's the photos to prove the above? Darth. May Both Sides Of the Force Be With You.

I don't have them!
I personally haven't experimented with these things, I claim nothing. Let's see if there will show up some results on the web some day. I have always been a sceptic of Kirlian photography, as it seems it's aura-visualizing abilities couldn't have been verificated independently so far (but I'm not an expert; though, we should have heard about it if it had been proofed I think.), so we'll see how this new method will do.

Spooky

Darth:

 In the link you posted, it talks about false color:  

False colour (aka pseudocolour) is a standard image processing technique of applying a colour scale to 'mono' data (either monochrome photos, or data that's not in a visible range). As we don't distinguish grey-scales well, it can show up subtle contrast gradients and highlight useful data in, for instance, astronomical and satellite images

That's a nice concept, and it don't really explain PIP.  

Imagine, if I have a picture that I filter to keep only frequencies out of our vision range, or that I filter only to keep  lights interferences for a given frequency.   It would result as a image without too much visual information that would be hard to interpret.  Applying the  pseudocolour concept on it, would give us a visual content to help to interpret the image.

I know this may a bit off the subject, but it kind of fits in with this topic..

Like in your dreams you really don't have a body technically speaking.. Your body is actually an illusion in your dream... But when you get attacked or hurt you can feel that in your dreams.. Because in our real lives we see ourselves get hurt and think we should feel pain... That is why in our dreams we think everything is real and pain is real.. When actually all of it is an illusion ..Since, in real life we are programmed  to experience pain.. So, technically pain is an illusion! ;) If, you read about the holographic universe you will start reconsidering your view on actual reality.. Reality on earth is technically a big illusion.. Life is but a dream!


I hope this makes sense to someone..

I know what I mean though.. So, atleast that matters.. peace and love

PhantasyMan wrote on Sep 15^th, 2007 at 11:13am:

Darth:  In the link you posted, it talks about false color:   False colour (aka pseudocolour) is a standard image processing technique of applying a colour scale to 'mono' data (either monochrome photos, or data that's not in a visible range). As we don't distinguish grey-scales well, it can show up subtle contrast gradients and highlight useful data in, for instance, astronomical and satellite images That's a nice concept, and it don't really explain PIP.   Imagine, if I have a picture that I filter to keep only frequencies out of our vision range, or that I filter only to keep  lights interferences for a given frequency.   It would result as a image without too much visual information that would be hard to interpret.  Applying the  pseudocolour concept on it, would give us a visual content to help to interpret the image.

Well!! It does explain it!...Maybe you have the finances to fork out $5,000 plus for his program.
And, Bruce recommends him!?...He also has other "Snake Oil" machines like some electrical
crystal healing Mumbo-Jumbo. Google him up, the inventor that is, then read and see what
he's selling....No wonder Don(Beserk) calls it the 'New Age Ghetto". It should be the New
Age Suckers!!!...Grow up People!!!...Believe in yourselves, not some 'Guru' selling anything
from self-hypnosis-imaginative workshops to secret healing methods of the past masters.
What have you learned from this site?....Except that a few, very few, are making a living
and sight-seeing the world....on your money!....Darth. May Both Sides Of The Force With
You.... Ps. Bruce in this thread states that he does not want to reveal the 'Secret' method
in which the subject takes these 'aura' pics as per his copyright...There's no copyright,
people!!!!Give me a break, Mister....If this were true, then it would be all over the news,
internet, and television!!!! WAKE UP FROM YOUR AWAKENED SLUMBER!!!!!