Hi
I have just got the book "Otherwhere" This info is very very good.seems like an advance on Robert Monroe's discoveries.Perhaps not so much an advance but a more updated way of interpretation of this non physical reality.I really recommend this book.
Love to all.

I too recommend it David. I did so on the announcements thread awhile back because the author comes out of TMI. so I would assume anyone who does come from TMI hopefully can surpass Monroe's information, to mean add to his own study, and we are all one anyhoo. I'm sure Bob is jumping up and down happily.
I know I really enjoyed the part about how our symbols must be our own interpretational value. that would explain why there is no proof of anything, as just when u find out where its at, they move it. (on old hippy saying we used to chant)

LaffingRain wrote on Jul 19^th, 2007 at 3:07am:

I too recommend it David. I did so on the announcements thread awhile back because the author comes out of TMI. so I would assume anyone who does come from TMI hopefully can surpass Monroe's information, to mean add to his own study, and we are all one anyhoo. I'm sure Bob is jumping up and down happily. I know I really enjoyed the part about how our symbols must be our own interpretational value. that would explain why there is no proof of anything, as just when u find out where its at, they move it. (on old hippy saying we used to chant)

So nice to get your comments Laffingrain you are an eternal presence here on this site Bless you.
So strange about the non physical reality.How does anyone ever find consensus up there??The otherwhere author talks about "Grand Central"that is very familiar to me when I had an experience many years ago.What I perceived was very clear and concise..I had no doubt about what I was seeing."Seeing" The book makes you wonder though.How does anyone ever agree on what they perceive up there?It pisses me off frankly.I haven't read all of the book but he hasn't asked guides half of the questions I would ask.For instance???There's all these guides and Teachers roaming around helping or trying wake up all these ignorant semi sleeping souls.Fine but also why is there such seemingly enormous ignorance amongst the recently dead.Sounds awfull.Are humans really so stupid?
Also to me big question???Who are the guides working for???Who made "Grand Central"??
Who organises things up there?What is the Divine Plan up there?I know time is not a consideration up there but neverthless how long has this been going on.?? What is the grand purpose??Perhaps Laffingrain in your travels you may have gained a glimpse of this ;larger picture.Let me know if you have.
Blessings
David9

LaffingRain wrote on Jul 19^th, 2007 at 3:07am:

I too recommend it David. I did so on the announcements thread awhile back because the author comes out of TMI. so I would assume anyone who does come from TMI hopefully can surpass Monroe's information, to mean add to his own study, and we are all one anyhoo. I'm sure Bob is jumping up and down happily. I know I really enjoyed the part about how our symbols must be our own interpretational value. that would explain why there is no proof of anything, as just when u find out where its at, they move it. (on old hippy saying we used to chant)

So nice to get your comments Laffingrain you are an eternal presence here on this site Bless you.
So strange about the non physical reality.How does anyone ever find consensus up there??The otherwhere author talks about "Grand Central"that is very familiar to me when I had an experience many years ago.What I perceived was very clear and concise..I had no doubt about what I was seeing."Seeing" The book makes you wonder though.How does anyone ever agree on what they perceive up there?It pisses me off frankly.I haven't read all of the book but he hasn't asked guides half of the questions I would ask.For instance???There's all these guides and Teachers roaming around helping or trying wake up all these ignorant semi sleeping souls.Fine but also why is there such seemingly enormous ignorance amongst the recently dead.Sounds awfull.Are humans really so stupid?
Also to me big question???Who are the guides working for???Who made "Grand Central"??
Who organises things up there?What is the Divine Plan up there?I know time is not a consideration up there but neverthless how long has this been going on.?? What is the grand purpose??Perhaps Laffingrain in your travels you may have gained a glimpse of this ;larger picture.Let me know if you have.
Blessings
David9

Quote:

Fine but also why is there such seemingly enormous ignorance amongst the recently dead.

well there's like 7 billion people on earth so there's probably less people like that than you think

It is important to remember that something isn't true just because somebody wrote it. Even if an author spent some time at TMI.  The TMI sources I've read contradict each other at times.

Regarding Kurt Leland, I saw two of his books at a book store, browsed through them a bit, and something told me they weren't for me.

My curiosity about him didn't go away, so later on I researched him on the internet. I found that he was a huge Seth fan (Jane Roberts). Wanted to channel Seth for a while. This didn't work out.  So he messed around with ouija boards for a while. This didn't work out either. Eventually he started channeling what he refers to as a "Seth like entity." He has been doing so since 1981. It is hard to imagine that he hasn't been influenced accordingly.

I'm not a Seth fan for numerous reasons. I won't get into all of the reasons. I'll state a few.  Seth purposely made statements about Jesus Christ that are demeaning. He tried to use the Gospels to state that Jesus wasn't crucified, with a story that has lots of holes in it and doesn't support what numerous verses of the gospels have to say.

Seth also took three of Jesus' most famous quotes, and interpreted them in a way so they completely lost spiritual value.

On page 414 of "A nature of a personal reality" Seth states: "The very term, "Love your neighbor as yourself, " was an ironic statement, for in that society no man loved his neighbor, but distrusted him heartily. Much of Christ's humor has been lost, therefore." The book references Matthew 19:19 and Mark 12:31.

The below is from Matthew:
18 He (a disciple) saith unto him (Jesus), Which (commandments one should keep)? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultry, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shall not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother; and, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF.

If as Seth suggests Jesus was just making a joke when he said "thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself," does this also mean that he was making a joke when he said the other above commandments?

Or did Jesus mean the first five commandments, but decided to throw in a joke at the end even though he was answering which commandments are important?'

Or did Seth show that he has deception in mind and can't be trusted?


Below is from Mark:
28 A scribe asked: Which is the first commandment of all?
29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30 And thou shalt love the Lord the God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this: THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF. There is none other commandment greater than these.  
32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and ther is none other but he:
33 And to love him with all the heart, and with the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbor as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God.  

I believe it is easy to see that Seth is "completely" wrong with his intentional misinterpretation of Jesus' famous quote.

Here are a few more gospel verses that have recently caught my attention. They are from Matthew 22:

"Teacher, which is the most important commandment in the law of Moses?
Jesus replied, You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. A second is equally important. LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF.  The entire law and all the demands of the prophets are based on these two commandments."

By the above it is incredibly easy to see that Jesus WASN"T making a joke when he said "love your neighbor as yourself.

"So what! some might say. "Seth still has some good information."  I've found that when it comes to discriminating a source of information, it isn't enough to "just" consider the statements that sound true. It is also important to consider statements that are obviously false. A person gets a more complete picture of where an author is coming from when they do so. If a source will try to mislead people by speaking of Jesus Christ as Seth did, who knows how many other ways such a source will try to mislead people.

Hi Recoverer I have always thought of the second commandment,Jesus said Love thy neighbor as thyself and i have always thought that what jesus meant by that is, Dont think you are better than anyone else as you are all the same in the eyes of God,so i also think Seth got it completely wrong and it was no joke.

I always think of the first commandment as i love God very much with all my heart and soul.

Love and God bless  Love Juditha

Hi david9

Were is that book being sould? I could neither find it at this site nor at amazon?

Sorry if I was off topic here hehe.

Kardec wrote on Jul 19^th, 2007 at 2:33pm:

Hi david9 Were is that book being sould? I could neither find it at this site nor at amazon? Sorry if I was off topic here hehe.

you could try Amazon.com  under author Kurt Leland "Otherwhere."
I got mine from Amazon

So strange about the non physical reality.How does anyone ever find consensus up there??
I think you may be talking about consensus agreement, which is for example, we all agree the world is flat and so it is, until someone finds out and reports back that it is not flat. On the other side change and flux is the rule rather than to be anchored in the consensus.

The otherwhere author talks about "Grand Central"that is very familiar to me when I had an experience many years ago.What I perceived was very clear and concise
I wish you would try and write it down for us what you saw. the act of writing it down will draw more info into your mind, and then if Kurt's description jives with yours, we then have a "consensus" beginning to form.

How does anyone ever agree on what they perceive up there?It pisses me off frankly.
I have to smile at your expression when u say it pisses u off, as I found in my explorations I too have to get mad to get anything done, here or there! haha! seriously, anger can be turned into determination within your scoutings, use it, but keep to love to balance it. symbols are slightly different for all, everyone is flying a different colored flag. don't get too uptight about it as you wouldn't want a clone type world anyway. when you set an intention to explore use your determination, the emotion of intensity, of not anger, but attitude. say, (I think u r saying this anyway) say, I'm pissed what I don't know and I'm not going to take my stupidity laying down! then watch what happens when u wish to serve another.

I haven't read all of the book but he hasn't asked guides half of the questions I would ask.
exactly why he wrote the book. so that someone like you would get up the gumption to complete what he started. I'm expecting more out of you here shortly so lets see what u can do! I mean to prioritize your questions, condense them into one or two questions; like who are we? what are we? or who am I? to be holding too many questions is not conducive to getting answers, but one very strong question fortified with determination will get you your results.

For instance???There's all these guides and Teachers roaming around helping or trying wake up all these ignorant semi sleeping souls.Fine but also why is there such seemingly enormous ignorance amongst the recently dead.Sounds awfull.Are humans really so stupid?
I don't think anyone is stupid. I think everyone is precious. Its easy to get caught up in a belief system and not find a way out of it without a little help. all of us know what its like to be stuck in some belief that makes us feel bad. and don't forget its a big shock to die. to transit. one minute you're here, one minute you're somewhere else. you know the feeling when u wake up in a strange motel when you're on the road? it's like that. Kurt is given some symbology to work with there, it is certainly not your own symbology for what really took place over there.

Also to me big question???Who are the guides working for???Who made "Grand Central"??
Since we are mostly a Christian nation, I would surmise the guides are working for the hierarchy of which JC is head, simply because JC was a love path or heart path to my way of thinking as he preached love. Retrievals are done in love, or PUL. Anyone who starts a religion just did a massive retrieval for humanity. although I would imagine the guides come from all walks of life and all religious beliefs and they truly don't ask what religious tenents you follow once you get on the other side. everyone is welcome.

Who organises things up there?What is the Divine Plan up there?
Your thought helps to organize it. its not like theres a white haired gentleman in charge of things. as far as I can see, theres a grid with connecting points which make it easy for us to get from one place to another, theres the thought of all mankind which creates the future areas and a bunch of event, time line planners laying down the grid lines according to massive projections and desires. All of us together make up something. if you ever meet a single individual in charge, please make an appointment for me to talk to this dude!

I know time is not a consideration up there but neverthless how long has this been going on.??
I heard something interesting. hell was not concieved of as a place in the time era of BC. do u see how it was our beliefs that made hell? JC never preached about hell. he only said your faith has made you whole.


What is the grand purpose??
I donno. its an experiment? :)when u ask these kind of questions, you have to look at your own life and ask would u do it over again or would you change something? then maybe you wouldn't want to change anything that happened because you wouldn't be who you are without your experiences thta you collected. Monroe did not supply us this answer to your question, but he did mention he viewed ELS graduates as they ascended. Whatever they had attained or not, they all shared in common something; they were satisfied with their lives that they did the best they could and could now have greater choice in their life plans. One of my intentions was to help just one person to own their soul. if everyone just helped one other person in the heart path, then that would be like a grand purpose.

I will meet up with you one day on the other side David, I'm sure of it. we will have much to discuss. love to you!  :)

I believe there is a lot of truth in what Alysia wrote below.

I don't believe beings of light care what religion we come from. They just simply love us, even if we make some mistakes. Regardless of what belief system one followed, if one lived according to love, one will be able to ascend quite fine. If one lived a really negative life, one might need some fixin in order to ascend. The time of fixin is a matter of when one decides to be fixed.

I don't believe Christ is a dictator who looks for spirits to throw stones at when they don't act in a particular manner. Going by my experiences, Christ is the principle through which God created the universe. Similar to Bruce's Moen's Planning Intelligence viewpoint. This is why Christ is the only "begotten" son. First God created the principle of Christ, and then the principle of Christ created everything else. Not that God, Christ and us are really seperate from each other.

Christ didn't have to use something other than himself to create us. He used his own being, we're all like his fingers and such. Similar viewpoint to what Bruce says when he states that we all live on the planning intelligence's lent awareness.

Being open to Christ is simply a matter of being open to a bigger part of ourself.  When we decide to become open to this bigger part of ourself, we get to know it. It isn't a matter of you better or else. It is a matter of "Wow--how big, beautiful and loving I am! Thank goodness I'm not just some transient little body or an ego based personality."

When it comes to Jesus, he was the physical manifestation of the Christ principle. He came here as a big part of the divine plan. Spirits in heaven love the divine plan. They're all for it, because they want all Souls to be completely happy, and they understand that the divine plan takes care of this.  When they see that Jesus is a key part of the plan, they don't shrug their shoulders and say: "Aw, shucks. I have my own idea of how I want things to be done." The love they experience includes the priniciple of humility,  and it doesn't occur to them to step in the middle of a plan that is working perfectly fine, just so things can be done their way. They find that the divine plan is their way, since it makes so much sense, and since they experience such complete oneness with all of the other spirits that are a part of the divine plan.

Seth, whoever he is, I believe he's one of God's divine children too. Just got confused for a while. For as long as he chose to do so he did things that worked against the divine plan. A plan to find perfect happiness, peace and love for all spirits.  

[quote author=laffingrain link=1184759090/0#9 date=1184878505]

Also to me big question???Who are the guides working for???Who made "Grand Central"??
Since we are mostly a Christian nation, I would surmise the guides are working for the hierarchy of which JC is head, simply because JC was a love path or heart path to my way of thinking as he preached love. Retrievals are done in love, or PUL. Anyone who starts a religion just did a massive retrieval for humanity. although I would imagine the guides come from all walks of life and all religious beliefs and they truly don't ask what religious tenents you follow once you get on the other side. everyone is welcome.

:D :D :D


wrote on Jul 19^th, 2007 at 2:06pm:

Hi Recoverer I have always thought of the second commandment,Jesus said Love thy neighbor as thyself and i have always thought that what jesus meant by that is, Dont think you are better than anyone else as you are all the same in the eyes of God,so i also think Seth got it completely wrong and it was no joke. I always think of the first commandment as i love God very much with all my heart and soul. Love and God bless  Love Juditha

Hi David,

One main thing of Leland's book is I think what Bruce called "Interpreter/Perceiver".
Two people can experience the same story but stuffed out very different, but in effect the meaning is the same, because they have different symbols for the same thing.
However, crucial is "the same thing", because how can we ever be sure to talk about the same thing? We can't. This is a lack which is built-in as long as we do underlay the theory of "true things" or "things as they are truely, on their own, unbiased by any interpretation" on the one side and the perception and interpretation on the other side. If we do this, of course we never can be sure how close our perceptions are to the "underlying" things.
We could, as an alternative, drop the assumption of an underlaying independent truth.

There is a scene in Leland's book where he witnesses a guy is somehow shrinked to his essence. He interpreted this process in his own way in his own images/symbols, different from the other people of his group having a different background. Now, funny, the other people were watching him rather than the original process because they found his interpretation such impressive. The problem only is, the same interpretation process must also occur when the other people were watching him, and vice versa, so it's not clear at all what they had seen of him. In the end, and Leland is aware of this, there maybe is not one other person perceiving the afterlife like he did.

As what these sleepy ignorant people in the afterlife belongs, it's just like here, isn't it? We are all more or less ignorant, be it just from a lack of knowledge (as we can't know everything), be it structural, that we differently digest new things, and make connections in very different ways. What in retrieval reports often is found, dizzy people stuck in their sometimes crude own thought world, and/or repeating patterns, this is as well happening right here all the time. Yes, we are that silly I think, but it's getting better (hopefully)(but ok, when we're all silly our sillieness is average, so then we're not silly anymore?). When you think about it, it fits well with everyone has an own set of symbols for interpreting perceptions, and that may be called ignorant- a negative term for individual.


Spooky

spooky said: We could, as an alternative, drop the assumption of an underlaying independent truth.  
____

this is to my thinking, correct, in that when an exploration is undertaken, dropping assumptions is also dropping expectations of how it should look, so it is like an opening in the mind field to allow greater insight, or greater perception.
its like theres conditional love, then theres unconditional love.
one type of love wants a return. the other type has no expectation of return.
one description from poets is prayer is talking to god, another type of prayer is listening to god.  or we can say All That Is, to be tuning into unlimited perception.

Kardec wrote on Jul 19^th, 2007 at 2:33pm:

Hi david9 Were is that book being sould? I could neither find it at this site nor at amazon? Sorry if I was off topic here hehe.

Hi Kardec
I did get it from Amazon com and very quickly indeed all the way to Oz.
Initially when I looked it up it didn't seem to be there and then it was.
Try again.
Cheers

Kardec wrote on Jul 19^th, 2007 at 2:33pm:

Hi david9 Were is that book being sould? I could neither find it at this site nor at amazon? Sorry if I was off topic here hehe.

Hi again Kardec
I just checked Amazon com again and the book is definitely there!!

LaffingRain wrote on Jul 19^th, 2007 at 4:55pm:

So strange about the non physical reality.How does anyone ever find consensus up there?? I think you may be talking about consensus agreement, which is for example, we all agree the world is flat and so it is, until someone finds out and reports back that it is not flat. On the other side change and flux is the rule rather than to be anchored in the consensus. The otherwhere author talks about "Grand Central"that is very familiar to me when I had an experience many years ago.What I perceived was very clear and concise I wish you would try and write it down for us what you saw. the act of writing it down will draw more info into your mind, and then if Kurt's description jives with yours, we then have a "consensus" beginning to form. How does anyone ever agree on what they perceive up there?It pisses me off frankly. I have to smile at your expression when u say it pisses u off, as I found in my explorations I too have to get mad to get anything done, here or there! haha! seriously, anger can be turned into determination within your scoutings, use it, but keep to love to balance it. symbols are slightly different for all, everyone is flying a different colored flag. don't get too uptight about it as you wouldn't want a clone type world anyway. when you set an intention to explore use your determination, the emotion of intensity, of not anger, but attitude. say, (I think u r saying this anyway) say, I'm pissed what I don't know and I'm not going to take my stupidity laying down! then watch what happens when u wish to serve another. I haven't read all of the book but he hasn't asked guides half of the questions I would ask. exactly why he wrote the book. so that someone like you would get up the gumption to complete what he started. I'm expecting more out of you here shortly so lets see what u can do! I mean to prioritize your questions, condense them into one or two questions; like who are we? what are we? or who am I? to be holding too many questions is not conducive to getting answers, but one very strong question fortified with determination will get you your results. For instance???There's all these guides and Teachers roaming around helping or trying wake up all these ignorant semi sleeping souls.Fine but also why is there such seemingly enormous ignorance amongst the recently dead.Sounds awfull.Are humans really so stupid? I don't think anyone is stupid. I think everyone is precious. Its easy to get caught up in a belief system and not find a way out of it without a little help. all of us know what its like to be stuck in some belief that makes us feel bad. and don't forget its a big shock to die. to transit. one minute you're here, one minute you're somewhere else. you know the feeling when u wake up in a strange motel when you're on the road? it's like that. Kurt is given some symbology to work with there, it is certainly not your own symbology for what really took place over there. Also to me big question???Who are the guides working for???Who made "Grand Central"?? Since we are mostly a Christian nation, I would surmise the guides are working for the hierarchy of which JC is head, simply because JC was a love path or heart path to my way of thinking as he preached love. Retrievals are done in love, or PUL. Anyone who starts a religion just did a massive retrieval for humanity. although I would imagine the guides come from all walks of life and all religious beliefs and they truly don't ask what religious tenents you follow once you get on the other side. everyone is welcome. Who organises things up there?What is the Divine Plan up there? Your thought helps to organize it. its not like theres a white haired gentleman in charge of things. as far as I can see, theres a grid with connecting points which make it easy for us to get from one place to another, theres the thought of all mankind which creates the future areas and a bunch of event, time line planners laying down the grid lines according to massive projections and desires. All of us together make up something. if you ever meet a single individual in charge, please make an appointment for me to talk to this dude! I know time is not a consideration up there but neverthless how long has this been going on.?? I heard something interesting. hell was not concieved of as a place in the time era of BC. do u see how it was our beliefs that made hell? JC never preached about hell. he only said your faith has made you whole. What is the grand purpose?? I donno. its an experiment? :)when u ask these kind of questions, you have to look at your own life and ask would u do it over again or would you change something? then maybe you wouldn't want to change anything that happened because you wouldn't be who you are without your experiences thta you collected. Monroe did not supply us this answer to your question, but he did mention he viewed ELS graduates as they ascended. Whatever they had attained or not, they all shared in common something; they were satisfied with their lives that they did the best they could and could now have greater choice in their life plans. One of my intentions was to help just one person to own their soul. if everyone just helped one other person in the heart path, then that would be like a grand purpose. I will meet up with you one day on the other side David, I'm sure of it. we will have much to discuss. love to you!  :)

I would like that and be awake in awareness as well.Laffingrain thank you for your long reply and the thought and energy you put into it.
Its a problem trying to understand the "Otherwhere" without me going again in full consciousness and seeing again for my self..Pity I wasn't a TMI graduate.Also we /I find it hard to understand this other energy form of life without interpreting it out of our Earthly paradigm.Like in everyday waking consciousness its almost impossible to imagine the Timeless a black void where time and the sense of time does not exist and never did.Yet when in it it seems awesome but perfectly knowable.
I will write about my two journey's to "Cosmic Grand Central" tomorrow.

LaffingRain wrote on Jul 19^th, 2007 at 4:55pm:

So strange about the non physical reality.How does anyone ever find consensus up there?? I think you may be talking about consensus agreement, which is for example, we all agree the world is flat and so it is, until someone finds out and reports back that it is not flat. On the other side change and flux is the rule rather than to be anchored in the consensus. The otherwhere author talks about "Grand Central"that is very familiar to me when I had an experience many years ago.What I perceived was very clear and concise I wish you would try and write it down for us what you saw. the act of writing it down will draw more info into your mind, and then if Kurt's description jives with yours, we then have a "consensus" beginning to form. How does anyone ever agree on what they perceive up there?It pisses me off frankly. I have to smile at your expression when u say it pisses u off, as I found in my explorations I too have to get mad to get anything done, here or there! haha! seriously, anger can be turned into determination within your scoutings, use it, but keep to love to balance it. symbols are slightly different for all, everyone is flying a different colored flag. don't get too uptight about it as you wouldn't want a clone type world anyway. when you set an intention to explore use your determination, the emotion of intensity, of not anger, but attitude. say, (I think u r saying this anyway) say, I'm pissed what I don't know and I'm not going to take my stupidity laying down! then watch what happens when u wish to serve another. I haven't read all of the book but he hasn't asked guides half of the questions I would ask. exactly why he wrote the book. so that someone like you would get up the gumption to complete what he started. I'm expecting more out of you here shortly so lets see what u can do! I mean to prioritize your questions, condense them into one or two questions; like who are we? what are we? or who am I? to be holding too many questions is not conducive to getting answers, but one very strong question fortified with determination will get you your results. For instance???There's all these guides and Teachers roaming around helping or trying wake up all these ignorant semi sleeping souls.Fine but also why is there such seemingly enormous ignorance amongst the recently dead.Sounds awfull.Are humans really so stupid? I don't think anyone is stupid. I think everyone is precious. Its easy to get caught up in a belief system and not find a way out of it without a little help. all of us know what its like to be stuck in some belief that makes us feel bad. and don't forget its a big shock to die. to transit. one minute you're here, one minute you're somewhere else. you know the feeling when u wake up in a strange motel when you're on the road? it's like that. Kurt is given some symbology to work with there, it is certainly not your own symbology for what really took place over there. Also to me big question???Who are the guides working for???Who made "Grand Central"?? Since we are mostly a Christian nation, I would surmise the guides are working for the hierarchy of which JC is head, simply because JC was a love path or heart path to my way of thinking as he preached love. Retrievals are done in love, or PUL. Anyone who starts a religion just did a massive retrieval for humanity. although I would imagine the guides come from all walks of life and all religious beliefs and they truly don't ask what religious tenents you follow once you get on the other side. everyone is welcome. Who organises things up there?What is the Divine Plan up there? Your thought helps to organize it. its not like theres a white haired gentleman in charge of things. as far as I can see, theres a grid with connecting points which make it easy for us to get from one place to another, theres the thought of all mankind which creates the future areas and a bunch of event, time line planners laying down the grid lines according to massive projections and desires. All of us together make up something. if you ever meet a single individual in charge, please make an appointment for me to talk to this dude! I know time is not a consideration up there but neverthless how long has this been going on.?? I heard something interesting. hell was not concieved of as a place in the time era of BC. do u see how it was our beliefs that made hell? JC never preached about hell. he only said your faith has made you whole. What is the grand purpose?? I donno. its an experiment? :)when u ask these kind of questions, you have to look at your own life and ask would u do it over again or would you change something? then maybe you wouldn't want to change anything that happened because you wouldn't be who you are without your experiences thta you collected. Monroe did not supply us this answer to your question, but he did mention he viewed ELS graduates as they ascended. Whatever they had attained or not, they all shared in common something; they were satisfied with their lives that they did the best they could and could now have greater choice in their life plans. One of my intentions was to help just one person to own their soul. if everyone just helped one other person in the heart path, then that would be like a grand purpose. I will meet up with you one day on the other side David, I'm sure of it. we will have much to discuss. love to you!  :)

So I was thinking about how in other where all appearances are emanating from the observer
AS Krishnamurti used to say "The Observer is the Observed"
Therefore it may well  be that whole Planer Earth is a projection from all of us and only sustains its existence as long as we need it.That physical reality is just as much created by our beliefs and concepts as the non physical realms.Just that things seem to be more concrete and stable here.Probably because we have added the concept of time.

David9 said: ts a problem trying to understand the "Otherwhere" without me going again in full consciousness and seeing again for my self..Pity I wasn't a TMI graduate.Also we /I find it hard to understand this other energy form of life without interpreting it out of our Earthly paradigm.Like in everyday waking consciousness its almost impossible to imagine the Timeless a black void where time and the sense of time does not exist and never did.Yet when in it it seems awesome but perfectly knowable.
I will write about my two journey's to "Cosmic Grand Central" tomorrow.
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I will enjoy reading your cosmic grand central I'm sure David. you and I think along a similar vein so maybe I can share a little. I think its true we have to go again as you said and see for ourself. in regards to reading of material of similar content, I had to re-read Bruce's and Monroe's books before understanding what I'd missed, in their mapping. we are all mapping. I'm getting so much more out of Bruce's 5 books than I thought I could, and the funny thing is I thought I had understood it all the first time. not. so certainly, your experience may provide some insight for me or others as well.
hey, I never went to TMI either David! yet theres still hope for the likes of us!

a little suggestion, I'm a reader more than a participant in programs, and I learned how to concentrate. what I do if I don't understand a passage or image or words, I stare at it, at the words until it sinks in. maybe you might try that. see if it works. Its just amazing how just reading can help us to be exploring better, even in dreamstate.
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David9 said: AS Krishnamurti used to say "The Observer is the Observed"
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this my opinion, advanced metaphysics. think of the eye viewing the eye. impossible to imagine but thats what happens when "out there." I think because it shows us our connections, but as well, there are entities involved with us when we do this. guides are about, but do not always reveal they are there. they do at the right time.
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David9 said:

Therefore it may well  be that whole Planet Earth is a projection from all of us and only sustains its existence as long as we need it.
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its a projection of mind with a capital M. if we all did not believe we were here, we might all disappear then. this is what is meant by the word Maya. Spiritualists call it the veil. ACIM calls it that everything is an illusion, to mean everything that is objective alludes to something else that decays in time; in a place called eternity, linear time is not and nothing will decay. the collective mind is mind with a small m, but is our c1 reality and can be powerful if we all join with same objective.
the idea that we all believed the world was flat once. that is small collective mind.
but it was true for us.
it does "look' like the world ends where the sun is setting, after all!
see u cannot judge anything around here.
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Dave:
That physical reality is just as much created by our beliefs and concepts as the non physical realms.Just that things seem to be more concrete and stable here.Probably because we have added the concept of time.
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yes, linear time is one thing, eternity or all time another, you've been there though. but to add to your thought, I call us humans frozen energy while in physical time/space. it's just a slowed down vibration due to gravity, and physics laws. we can speed up our vibes though, by preparing, cleansing, disapline, various methods and meditations which we do. then we can see Otherwhere much better as it's very close in vibration, a slight shift of attention, maybe like peripheral vision or intuitive glimpses, dreams, obes and such, all are tools. one wouldn't want to be enlightened too quickly David, we have to take it in small chunks.

when you find yourself out there, try to remember if you're talking to someone it is like their thoughts become your thoughts, the same with feelings.
I don't think we added time, so much as we were given time. we have to remember we wanted to be here.

I like to say we turned ourselves inside out when becoming physical. everything seems backwards here. for instance, here our bodies generally dictate our lives, if we feel a pain or illness, we could say the body is telling us what to think and is in charge of us.

on the other side, we are the ones who tell our bodies what to do, to heal, etc. we are in control on the other side according to what we believe. here it is a challenge to get in control. builds character I guess :)

I told u already didn't I, that I'm changing my hair color once I get home? :) just a thought away hmmmm!!!  purple. yea. that would be nice. nah, red maybe! :D

Thanks for your usual considered reply and caring attitude.
No U didn't tell me about your hair.Can't change mine its white and would look weird if I died itblack and also too presumptuous.
I still need some more time to write about "Grand Central"Funny I thought I had written about that.Never mind won't do any harm to share the story again
Love David9