Hello!
I´m new here and registered mainly because of this question... I`m not perfect in english but I hope you understand...

I`m not sure can anyone give me clear answers...

I`m really confused about this reincarnation thing...If I had have about 10 lifetimes on this earth and when I die does that mean that those persons I have been once does not exist anymore??? And when I reincarnate again into someone else does that mean that this person who I am now does not exist anymore??? What about my loved ones?? When they decide to reincarnate and then die and come back to spirit realm in another person does that mean that my loved ones are gone forever????

I have to say that it`s really depressing if it goes like that way....

HI Maze-
There is exceptionally little research in this area. I'll try to summarize what I know, and others will doubtless add their own interpretations.

One researcher has pretty well proven that systems with internal information flow, like people who are thinking, or groups that are working in an area of research, create new information by first accumulating whatever is known, and then by combining it in every possible way. There is good (philosophical) reason to believe that the physical world evolves in a similar manner, by accumulation of the properties of reality, and then recombining them in every possible way, so that the universe keeps expanding, and actually is accelerating (slightly) in its expansion. This type of theory suggests that everything can be reduced to cycles of self-generation. The physicist David Boehm suggested that this could be called the "implicate order" (what we have) that forms the "explicate order" what it becomes. Among other interesting things, this type of theory is fractal, meaning that it generates itself over and over, as it projects itself into new areas.

As a result, this type of theory suggests that when we die, the valid aspects of our existence remain in the world where they continue to combine with reality, producing echoes of our former life. At the same time, the "persona", the primary location of the information flow that is associated with each of us, is superposed onto the surrounding reality in various ways, so that both reality and the "persona" are supported. As an example, many people look into the sky and see faces in the forms that clouds exhibit as they billow across the sky. The faces are a superposition. The "persona" seems to stick to its reality in a somewhat similar manner.

Because the residual information and activity defining the personal viewpoint slightly alter the probabilities by which things combine, they lead to changes that tend to reinforce their presence. This leads to a tendency to be reborn - and it appears that this eventually becomes  100% certainty, even if we wish to stay dead. An exception is the person who has detached from all earthly attachments and desires, who is then able to stay forever in "heaven" - at one with the entirety of reality.

Reports from past life regressions tend to indicate that this cycle occurs more or less as a natural sequence of events. Those parts of our reality that are valid persist. Those parts that are invalid, or self-contradictory, eventually self-destruct. Thus, the valid aspects of ourselves and our friends remain, while the squabbles and hassles tend to die away. This tendency for invalid relationships to cancel themselves out is the essence of karma, and is a simple cause and effect process, nothing mysterious. Often, regressions will discover that those close to us in this lifetime are old friends with whom we've shared many lifetimes, and many different roles.

If you read some of Bruce's material you will get a god idea of the kinds of problems the dying person experiences, and the kinds of self-delusional traps that occasionally they fall into. Some of them are ridiculous. These are caused by attachments, such as pride, desire, hatred, guilt or other strong emotions. When the attachments are removed, the person goes on into the rest of the "afterlife experience", and eventually to rebirth.

My personal suggestion is to stick around and join in the ongoing discussion, and to develop your own abilities to do retrievals of stuck souls. This will both broaden your awareness, and also generate merit by which you can't help but advance.

dave

Hi Maze, I believe that the being you are never dies, it only changes through having lived the lives you mention of. So when you say you die, only the vehicle, namely your body, dies. Who YOU are will always exist. This includes all your loved ones, friends and everone else whether human, animal, plant, etc. It is my belief that you will at some point see and be reunited with all whom you love and love you. Forever is time related, and time only exists within the confines of Physical Reality, of which you are experiencing during this lession of life experience.

maze wrote on Jul 6^th, 2007 at 1:39pm:

I`m really confused about this reincarnation thing...If I had have about 10 lifetimes on this earth and when I die does that mean that those persons I have been once does not exist anymore??? And when I reincarnate again into someone else does that mean that this person who I am now does not exist anymore??? What about my loved ones?? When they decide to reincarnate and then die and come back to spirit realm in another person does that mean that my loved ones are gone forever???? I have to say that it`s really depressing if it goes like that way....

It's quite the contrary. In truth, the depression (which is always caused by a misunderstanding of the Universal Laws or some aspect of the truth of the matter) is turned around (Byron Katie says, only you can enlighten yourself, via the true meaning of your thoughts, feelings and ideas... turn each of them around, and ask yourself what does each teach you?) to Joy.

If you've had 10 lifetimes, or 10 million lifetimes on this Earth, on other planets, even in other past universes before this one, when you die (which you don't, ever. it's only the physical body and various energy bodies, which are transformed and transmuted, see even they don't 'die', much less the true you, the soul, by its very definition the eternal 'I am'), the (essence, totality, simultaneity of the) person that you once were, is every bit 100% the same as the (essence, totality, simultaneity of the) person that you are now (ie. after death).

In fact, upon death, you are so much more. It's quite the contrary, the real difficulty of 'incompleteness' and 'memory loss' of ALL whom you are (ie. all lives and existences combined, not merely those from the past, but also across individual manifestations of your own soul beyond time) is when you're in a physical body in any specific lifetime. The joy of reclaiming who (all) you are, occurs naturally after death (this is not by any purposeful design, at least not directly; but a mere consequence of the mechanism of physical incarnation vs extraphysical existence).

Imagine - all the memories, the joys, the dreams, the aspirations, the emotions, the experiences, the interactions, the RELATIONSHIPS, the love, all of these from all your many different lifetimes, as each and every man and woman you've been, as human and as extraterrestrial, as intraphysical and as extraphysical, etc. *ALL* OF THESE (BEINGS, IN THEIR ENTIRETY) ARE WITHIN YOU, INSEPARABLY AND FOREVER A PART OF YOURSELF.

They can never die, because you (and whom really are you, once you've realized a higher level of truth via evolution in exactly an analogous way to the waking up to greater clarity after death of a lifetime, but ultimately, essentially, totally and simultaneously God Her/Him/Them/OurSelves) are eternal. A simple truth.


AND SO IT IS EXACTLY (but of course) FOR EACH AND ALL YOUR LOVED ONES. They are eternal, in infinitely more ways than they might realize. When you (truly!) love someone, it is not only the physical shell or even this particular lifetime that you're loving, but ALL of her/his/their past lives, personalities (for true love is *unconditional*), existences and everything and everything that they are, have been, OR WILL BE. Always & Forever.



Quote:

When they decide to reincarnate and then die and come back to spirit realm in another person does that mean that my loved ones are gone forever????

Hahahaa! :)
I/We hope you see the silliness in that question for yourself, and may you be able to laugh at it for *yourself* (for we are certainly not laughing at you, but at the silliness of the concept. Still, misconceptions can cause pain, all of which is completely unnecessary. And that is what makes it really tragic, yet simultaneously (to laugh or to cry? let's do both) laughable.)

Your loved ones are never gone forever, only that you (or for some of them, even themselves) forget themselves, other aspects, lifetimes, levels or eternal existence of themselves. If you can recognize the beauty, truth, totality of themselves, seeing within and through their eyes, ALL they've ever been (all their past lives, all their past life relationships with yourself/yourselves), and ALL they'll ever be in all infinity of the future, then you've seen Love. You've (been willing to) see/seen their true Self / that which is yourSelf, for Love is the Realization of Oneness, between *all* themselves and *all* their past/future existences, and between *all* themselves and *all* yourself.

And time (including lifetimes) isn't some sort of cruel barrier to separate you from your loved ones (*chuckle/LOL*), or even to separate you from your past/future lives (even more laughable! *ROFL*), for what is Time, but really an Expression/Exploration of YourSelf through your Universe(s), Your very Own Creation.


(WHAT WE CALL) "GOD", IS THE ESSENCE, TOTALITY AND SIMULTANEITY OF YOUR SOUL, OF ALL-WHOM-YOU-LOVE, OF ALL-THE-COSMOS. THESE THREE ARE ONE. WE UNDERSTAND THIS AS GOD/LOVE.

maze wrote on Jul 6^th, 2007 at 1:39pm:

Hello! I´m new here and registered mainly because of this question... I`m not perfect in english but I hope you understand... I`m not sure can anyone give me clear answers... I`m really confused about this reincarnation thing...If I had have about 10 lifetimes on this earth and when I die does that mean that those persons I have been once does not exist anymore??? And when I reincarnate again into someone else does that mean that this person who I am now does not exist anymore??? What about my loved ones?? When they decide to reincarnate and then die and come back to spirit realm in another person does that mean that my loved ones are gone forever???? I have to say that it`s really depressing if it goes like that way....

Let me speak from a Buddhist perspective.... We are all reborn not only from lifetime to lifetime, but also reborn every single moment because of ignorance conditioning the whole rebirth momentum... until you realise the nature of reality and then you overcome the cycle of rebirth, right here and now (let's not talk about afterlife first). That means the factors conditioning rebirth ceases right here and now, you no longer reborn even right now, because there is no more ignorance.

Like what my friend Thusness/Passerby said:

Life (Self) is nothing other than the continuous flow of the Now Moment.
The Now Moment ceases as it arises. This moment must completely ceased
and serves as the CAUSE for the next moment to arise.
Therefore Self is a process of series Self1, Self2, Self3, Self4, Self5, Self6...etc
A fixed entity 'Self' does not exist, what really exists is a momentary Self.
Under deep meditation, one is able to observe and sense the karmic and mental factors from moment to moment,
it is these factors that are succeeded from moment to moment and life and life but not a fixed entity.
When the karmic and mental factors subsides, it is known as "The True and Only (and Inherently egoless) Conscious Light (Itself)".

As you can see, rebirth is not the reincarnation of an fixed entity of a self. There is only a momentary Self, of Self1, Self2, Self3, Self4, etc. That is why I said you are reborn every moment. Even right now there is no fixed Self, just as the word 'Weather' does not refer to a fixed entity but an ongoing everchangingness of weather conditions -- cloud formations, rain, lightning, wind, etc.

This conditions changes moment to moment and is carried to the 'next life'. However, it is not a fixed 'self' that is reincarnated. When you are reborn in the afterlife, you bring along your karmic and mental factors, but you no longer remember your previous lives. (Though it is possible to recall past lives through various methods)

So to summarise, in relative truth, you are still you, but in ultimate truth, there is no 'you' to begin with. It is only by ignorance do we attach to the notion that there is a truly existing self that is permanent. And it is this ignorance that conditions rebirth. In reality such a self cannot be found.

maze wrote on Jul 6^th, 2007 at 1:39pm:

What about my loved ones?? When they decide to reincarnate and then die and come back to spirit realm in another person does that mean that my loved ones are gone forever????

Hi, a person who passes away does not necessarily enters into the spirit realm. From the Buddhist perspective, there are 31 planes of Samsaric Existence (see http://web.ukonline.co.uk/buddhism/bhumis.htm ), which Spirit realm is one of them, and Human realm. If you attain Nirvana then you transcend cycles of rebirth in all the 31 existences.

We are reborn in accordance to our karma. Karma is not a system of judgement by a supreme deity, it is a conditioning of your consciousness. Especially in Buddhism, Karma is neither an adventitious elemental defilement, like it is for the Jains, nor a subtle and transcendental deterministic fate, like for certain schools of Hinduism. Karma is simply the correlation between cause and effect. It is a natural law. The last moment of death is also vital... for example if your mind is full of hatred and ignorance it is easy to be reborn in the lower realms of existence.

Even though there are higher and more enjoyable realms of existence, it is best to be reborn in the human realm because of the opportunity and all the great conditions to gain deep insights into reality. Realms such as celestial realm may not have such great conditions, though enjoyable, they may just be obsessed with their enjoyment. Human realm is the best place to gain enlightenment.

So anyway, in relative truths your relatives certainly aren't 'gone forever', they are just reborn in another lifetime according to what his conditions ripen. It seems an inevitable course for everyone though, though it may take a very very long time for some people, to reach enlightenment and realise our true nature. Then all the illusions of being a separate individual self is transcendended (therefore we are all 'one' in a higher sense), and we realise our true nature/buddha nature to be luminous-emptiness, or in conventional terms, consciousness that is empty in nature. Some people call this our 'true self', but most often than not there are tons of misconceptions of the nature of 'true self' even after one has some glimpses of this reality. True self must not be misunderstood to be eternalistic nor as a background (see http://awakeningtoreality.blogspot.com/2007/03/mistaken-reality-of-amness.html ), and is not separated from moment to moment manifestation. It must be understood in terms of non-duality and emptiness. This is a deeper subject, won't dwell on it more in this thread.

Than what happens at the moment of death?do we go into a dream like state,and not remember our love ones?This to me does not make sense at all>George

I'm no expert on this. I've heard the view expressed that after death we return to the dharmakaya (the primordial I am or absolute state before rebirth. And that after birth we can be reborn in multiple locations or as multiple emanations of the same energy.

Not sure that that makes it any clearer, but I guess the point is that while there is an apparent self in this life, and while both conventional and a more refined essence of that self may continue (and even be contactable in the afterlife) it may be a mistake to see that as a sequential or linear cycle of existence -  given that time may not apply, the likely existence of a self which is in some way a composite of multiple past lives, and the possibility that multiple emanations may be possible.

In other words we may be attempting to theorise based on a self centred, sequential time based and  inaccurate understanding of what's going on.....

george stone wrote on Jul 7^th, 2007 at 1:17pm:

Than what happens at the moment of death?do we go into a dream like state,and not remember our love ones?This to me does not make sense at all>George

Though it is possible to see visions of relatives, it doesn't have to always be the case.

The states happening immediately after death are very well documented in scriptures such as the Tibetan Book of the Dead, wonder if anyone read it before. It has v close similarities with most near death experiences. You may want to grab the book, it should be in any major bookstores.

wrote on Jul 7^th, 2007 at 3:16pm:

I'm no expert on this. I've heard the view expressed that after death we return to the dharmakaya (the primordial I am or absolute state before rebirth. And that after birth we can be reborn in multiple locations or as multiple emanations of the same energy. Not sure that that makes it any clearer, but I guess the point is that while there is an apparent self in this life, and while both conventional and a more refined essence of that self may continue (and even be contactable in the afterlife) it may be a mistake to see that as a sequential or linear cycle of existence -  given that time may not apply, the likely existence of a self which is in some way a composite of multiple past lives, and the possibility that multiple emanations may be possible. In other words we may be attempting to theorise based on a self centred, sequential time based and  inaccurate understanding of what's going on.....

I have to disagree with you... though it is possible to have multiple emanations, someone not liberated is utterly under the influence of karmic forces. That's like you enter into sleep... dream scenes just come up spontaneously and you have no control over them... this is similar to the case of death. Karmic fruition occurs without your ability to control them.

If you become liberated and enlightened, become a Bodhisattva, then you are above the influence of karmic forces (does not mean karma no longer occurs for you, they still do but you are not identified with them). Then they can do multiple emanations.

Next, you're quite right about the Dharmakaya --- at the time of death there will be the experience of Clear Light -- though most unenlightened people will not recognise it and the experience passes within a second... then one undergoes another cycle of rebirth.

However I must also mention that Dharmakaya is not to be mistaken as the I Am. I Am is the reflection of the Absolute... it is not the Absolute itself. There are many stages of realisations, and the I AM is not the complete realisation yet. Please see: Thusness's Six Stages of Experience and Enlightenment is a gradual process and the many other similar articles in the same blog.

maze wrote on Jul 6^th, 2007 at 1:39pm:

I`m really confused about this reincarnation thing...If I had have about 10 lifetimes on this earth and when I die does that mean that those persons I have been once does not exist anymore??? And when I reincarnate again into someone else does that mean that this person who I am now does not exist anymore??? What about my loved ones?? When they decide to reincarnate and then die and come back to spirit realm in another person does that mean that my loved ones are gone forever???? .

Hi Maze,

these other reincarnation lives exist at the same time while you're living in the phyiscal system. It's like some games on your harddisc on your computer. One game may play in the midage and another one in the future, but they are all at the same time on your disc and you can enter that game whenever you want. So if you die in a physical manner you disconnect from your body, but that doesn't effect the other reincarnated selves. They continue their living and will die at another time.
And after being dead you may wander through your alternative realities or you may connect to another life temporary, but at the end of this process, as we hope, you will come to focus 27 to get informed about your further activities.

Jonathan

Thank X. In truth my understanding of the finer details of that stuff is patchy. I wasn't aware of the distinction in Buddhist thought on emanations or of the precise meaning of the Dharmakaya.

Guess I was however raising the possibility that much as you say that (a) the after death process is something most of us can't control (it seem to be widely implied that we can in some spiritual frameworks, but the fact that we can maybe become conscious of parts of it doesn't mean this is necessarily the case) and (b) that the processes set out in these frameworks may or may not reflect any reality, or be the whole picture or whatever.

We're so limited by the fact that we can only theorise about this stuff in terms of our time/space/relativistic/self centred intellects....

Hi George-
I think the question about what happens relative to our loved ones arises from the assumption that the natures of our loved ones are forever separated from our own nature. And with this question, we open up the structure of the "Astral Levels".

Let's start from the top down. In the beginning there is only the Ultimate Creative Impulse, Bergson's elan vital, St Thomas Aquinas "Uncaused Cause", or some call it "Mind" (but that carries a lot of freight about thinking that isn't necessarily valid), or we can pick a word like Braham, Allah, or Javeh, the descriptive label God, or perhaps Creator, or even the hippies' term, "Cosmic Consciousness". Whatever this is, there is only One.  For those who are in a spiritual level of the afterlife in which they perceive the truth of this, we say that they are in the "Upper Astral", and we believe that these souls have access to the experience of their connection with God to the degree that they allow themselves.

From this One, comes everything. Therefor, in at least one way we all can recognize that, in St Paul's terms, "I know you all, all children of God."  That is to say, there is at least one way in which we do not differ from God, and thus, with respect to that way, we are coextensive with God. So, in a real way, you are God, your loved ones are God, and we are all God together.

Now looking at it from the bottom up, what we find is that we are each individual lumps of active protoplasm engaged in survival. As we grow, we begin to incorporate consideration of others in our awareness, and eventually we discover love, compassion etc. Still, because we are not yet spiritually "street wise" we tend to view the material world is the primary and ultimate basis of everything. We also relate all our ideas back to the material world. Thus, when we love, we view the target of our affection as separate and different from us. Further, we have found at least one way, based on material explanations for our experiences, in which we can find our selves different from God. (As a quick example, I can't wave my arms and fly out my window. Thus, there is something that a Creator might create that is beyond me, hence I am not God.) To the degree that we cling to the notions that are differentiating as opposed to those that are unifying, we also stay in the illusion of the primacy of material reality.

Those who die while clinging to the idea of materiality wind up in an astral reality in which they remain individuals. That doesn't mean that they cease to be elements of Godhead with a common unifying nature, but it does mean that they are not yet aware of their God-nature. As a result, these souls are not in a location in which they have perpetually direct access to the nature of God, but rather they exist in a lower spiritual state, hence we call it the "Lower Astral".

The state into which we are born in the world is always material, because that is how birth is defined. The spiritual state, however, varies according to our ability to accept our ultimate oneness with everything and everybody, as well as the basic values this entails. These values are conveniently summarized by the three primary forms of yoga, Bhakta (love), jnana (awareness) and karma (action).  (These arise from the three gunas, the three basic aspects of reality, structures, relationships and processes.) What happens to us once we are living here is that we can increase the love we feel and rediscover our loved ones in the Upper Astral, where they manifest as projections of God, or we can cling to their material qualities and rediscover them in Lower Astral. Occasionally, severe negative emotions keep a few souls stuck in the mental fringes, earthbound, which is the BST level that Bruce's rescue work targets.

For you and me, depending on how much we are willing to accept at the moment of death, we can turn loose of everything and return to Godhead, or we can turn loose of a lot of stuff, and stay in Upper Astral, or we can cling to the earth and Lower Astral, or if we are sufficiently screwed up we can get stuck in a BST or a haunting mode. (Very unlikely.) All major religious traditions have stories of how these levels work and what happens to the dead, but the sum is essentially a matter of choosing where we allow ourselves to go. Again, for you and me, we do not lose our loved ones, but we retain that awareness of them that is most appropriate to our own level of advancement. The most perfect level of advancement is to merge our own nature with that of God, following the awareness that there is at least one way in which that is possible. To the degree to which we do that, not only do we not lose our loved ones, but our love is expanded more or less infinitely.  In a sense, with death comes the ability to love in a manner beyond the levels to which mere mortals are restricted.
PUL
dave

Thanks Dave, that was beautifully written. May I ask what sources you have this information from? And not only that; I also wonder how much you have read versus how much you have experienced of what you just wrote. I'm very much a skeptic, but great post nonetheless.

Hi dave.nice post.I have seen people who have past over,and they look great,happy,smiling,and solid.If you have read the post that I had on this board,about mary who died some 60 years ago coming down the road to meet me and talk to me,just like she was still living here,and she was at the same age as when she died.I even saw her mothers face appare on the side of marys face.and her mother died at the age of 80,but when I saw her here she looked to be in her 20s.So they do know us from where they are,George

hi there, nice thread. the short answer: my opinion is and strong feelings based on exploration and experiences of inner nature is: love is all that survives after transition, and you can never lose anything in death because death is rebirthing into your home; what happens is you become more of yourself, not less.

will have to read some more of these fine responses. thank you, alysia

Hi Stjern-
I have been a past life regression therapist since the 1980s. I started as a regulation, orthodox, materialistic psychoanalyst, working through hypnotic methods because they are literally hundreds of times faster than traditional Freudian or Jungian analytic techniques.  Then people began coming in who regressed to prior lifetimes, so I started learning about past life phenomena, and started doing some theoretical thinking in related areas.

If we accept reincarnation as invalid, and stick to either one-shot-life with heaven (or hell) forever, or to no afterlife, we are limited to the world of mechanical events, and all the OBE and NDE and "enlightenment" experiences people have are signs of mental instability. My personal spiritual experiences have been quite persuasive, so I think I'll take a different approach.

If we add the idea that somehow the "energy fields" (whatever that might mean) that have been generated in life will be continued into the future, then we have a future in which the past is perpetually rejuvenated, even though in other forms. That seems to me to be a bare minimum, since we can see the influences of prior eras moving through our own times, carrying somethng of the "essence" of their authors.

I'm a bit more radical. My only major scientific paper was on the manner in which information is collected and processed by emerging intelligences. In essence, old collections of data are stuck together to make new collections. For example a set of N individual data can be stuck together in 2^(N-1) ways (so that 3 original data gives 7 outcome sets, including the beginners). This is pretty easily demonstrated by looking at information growth. Since everything had to start, the smallest integer data set is two elements, hence a finite beginning, and after that data sets arise as clusters of combinations, 2, 3, 7, 127, 1.7E38 etc. I view life experience as similarly being an accumulation of data that arises in sets in the same general manner, one cluster at a time. This is an ongoing process in principle, and there seems to be at least one way that it might be carried into the transition between lifetimes, if we allow lifetimes to be defined in similar terms.. That makes life look like an information fractal which is self-similar in every previously experienced cycle of accretion, and in which the separation between lives is simply part of the repetitive fractal cycle. Further, the entire activity is just another information system that adds to define itself, as well as its members, so that everything adds to a single One, so that One is the entire system of reality. I approach my therapy clients this way. Therapy is mostly a matter of coming into accord with the present nature of reality.

So what I get back from past life regression, without prompting people to say it, plus my own tendencies toward interpretation, gives the material I offer. Bruce's material is essentially the same as my own experiences, so I accept it as confirmation for both of us. We use different words etc, but it's essentially the same set of observations.

And that's where I get it.

dave

Yes, laffingrain, I can agree. To die is just a transition and we won't be more anlightened than before. ;-) The dream continues.

Jonathan

Thanks for answering, Dave. :)

jonathandilas wrote on Jul 12^th, 2007 at 7:42am:

Yes, laffingrain, I can agree. To die is just a transition and we won't be more anlightened than before. ;-) The dream continues. Jonathan

well maybe not much more enlightened, but its sure easier to find my right classroom once I'm not having to scratch up coin and gas money to get there. love, alysia

The downside of not needing the taxi ( :)) is that if I take as true what I read and have been taught (I don't have the ability of some of you guys to check this stuff out) it gets a lots harder to keep the mind under control.

In the physical it's like creativity operates through treacle and is relatively slow. So it's easier to catch wrong thought or urges before you act or issues get out of hand.

In the 'after' it's much faster. Not so good if your instincts, intuition and conditioning are wrong or you are given to unnecessary fears, especially if your mindfulness is limited, or you are given to the imagination of horrifying scenarios.

This is one reason why Buddhism reckons that a human life is best for learning/progress towards realisation, and why most cannot control  what happens to them in the Bardos (afterlife) without very extensive meditation/mind training in single pointedness and equanimity, why rebirth for the vast majority is mostly unconscious and containing a fairly substantial element of chance for most.

They point out for example that we inevitably are confronted by 'wrathful' aspects of our mind - which are a part of even enlightened mind, and which can manifest as demons and monsters, and that in an effort to escape we can be driven into highly unpleasant rebirths. Perhaps not even in human realms.

Robert Monroe while less forbidding on the subject also picked up a sense that people seem to snap between realities and states of consciousness (locations) in the afterlife, and on the possibility that there is a compulsive element that drives rebirth .

I'm unsure. Could be that if you are convinced it won't happen to you then it won't. But on the other hand regardless of what you think you think you never know what's lurking deep down in the old psyche waiting for a chance to do its stuff....

hi Vajra
we're sort of getting away from discussing reincarnation but thats ok, I don't mind.
I went thru your post and picked out all the negatives so just to point them out to you so u would notice. not judging you, just pointing out where your head is at this present moment.
I'll reprint the phrases that pepper your post and see if I can discover what it is you are really asking as its not exactly clear:

downside (smily face) I don't have ability...a negative.

under control

wrong thoughts....out of hand

mindfulness is limited, horrifying scenarios

most cannot conrol

element of chance

wrathful elements, demons and monsters, nonhuman realms

compulsive, driven

I'm unsure. lurking deep..

________

I respond to words which make me feel something. from negatives like mentioned above all sorts of scarey, or boxed in feelings are picked up. so then I tell u this because I am not trying to fix you, but just what I feel when I read anyone's post, so I can get to know them better and maybe it will help, maybe not. and it is just a viewpoint in the end.
____
I see control of your thoughts is what you desire. we all can relate to that for sure!
I can only say a meditation technique which worked for me but I wouldn't say that control of thoughts is like my talent but heres a little method:
when exploring we have doubts: that what we do is worthwhile. we may feel pressured to be active in some project, or we may feel we are being silly. these are called doubts and are creative in themselves to produce our reality.
so put all doubts in a satchel beside you, this in imagining, so you will know where they are when you come up from meditation, you can pick them up when you're done. setting aside doubts allows you to open up beyond those monsters and things you are concerned about.

nothing I say is going to help anyone to feel as positive and certain as I do feel about our future as humanity, its your own experience has to supply your truth. there is a way to think more on positive things though, that tends to make it a more positive world manifest. the more of us do this, the bigger and better it gets.
we are supposed to keep in balance between negative and positive so we can see both sides of the coin simultaneously, this my guidance anyway and produces less fear for me to express. the idea is courage leads to fearlessness leads to PUL. everybody has different path to same destination though. not for me to say whats right or wrong. we must all speak for ourselves.

for yourself you say "you never know what's lurking"...

thats if you believe in murphys law. I used to. things still don't happen as we expect them to, but what changes in enlightenment process, is things still go wrong but it doesn't bother you anymore when they go wrong, as a matter of fact every negative you find can be turned into a positive and that goes for the afterlife as well this life.

I once had a monster chasing me in the astral, and the astral, my opinion is very similar to the afterlife planes, although monsters don't live on the high level mental areas, they are simply not smart enough for the classrooms up there.
well, the monster chased me every night. so redundant activity..finally I said I'm going to let it eat me. I don't want to run anymore.
I turned around preparing to die, said alright eat me. the monster said back, "you created me to chase you!" you're not supposed to confront me like this! now you are making me useless! and it dissolved because I alone had created it. I almost felt sorry for it as it died, but you can bet I was happy I didn't have to die after all.

I know you're going thru a rough time from your post, but just remember its just a phase, you're going to come out of it a winner, is my feeling, probably quicker than you think.
my 2 cents. blessings, alysia
btw, never say never. you say you don't have any experiences like us, but if you start looking at some experiences that happened that were odd, you might surprise yourself that you can explore, and you can do what your intentions for coming to earth were. say yes I can, don't say no I can't. theres nobody will get in your way to come from love.

Whoa Alysia! And I thought I was commenting on some of the dynamics that may drive reincarnation, especially with some slightly tougher Buddhist perspectives in mind - rather than raising my own issues. But I guess that's what I did too, inasmuch as the points reflect some of my own sense  that it isn't necessarily just 'happy happy' out there - that we can create some not so nice stuff.

I do have an intense mind and a tendency to think of these possibilities sometimes when as you point out the path is about not bringing these into reality - as ACIM says by 'forgiving' or not judging. By not giving them reality by pouring creative energy into them. And that we can ultimately as you very nicely say transcend them. Thanks for the 'setting aside' tip too - i do experience some of the issues you mention around motivation, value of work and the like - and it would be nice to set them aside.

On the other hand things are not bad. I don't have that seemingly easy facility to experience other realities, but it's developing steadily. Plus I've  experienced enough around communication and the PUL/no self state to know it's for real. Which is life changing. Not to mention that while life has been a little bumpy recently that compared to where I came from many years ago before starting down the path it's a breeze.

I guess in the bigger picture that while the great knowing has just stared to open up there's still bits of negative tendency around as well. That while I share your optimism the negatives do sometimes get a grip. But that's OK, it's with work the help of insight prompted by people like yourself slowly (or at least my view of it) being transformed.

Which relates to reincarnation too, I guess the reality we experience depends on our state of consciousness.

;) I'll put my clothes back on again now!!!

Thank you XXXX

hey  :)  Vajra said I'll put my clothes back on again now!!!  
____

I'm sorry if I made you feel naked? you seem to take me well tho.
I really respect anyone into Buddism even more than other religions although we all need to look beyond doctine of all religions or belief systems right now is my feeling, or maybe just use doctrine as like leaping off places, just not get stuck in the ideas they allude to are absolute things.
we are as a whole too much in process of change and becoming to stay in one place from what another person said or wrote down which includes all literature and religious books.

I'm glad you came here and write thoughts down, it helps me to meet folks like yourself, deep thinkers, so few of us can express deeper thoughts.

is there life after accepting reincarnation concept? just to get back on topic. yes, there actually is life afterwards.
for me it moved me into my nothingness state of mind and made me reach out to others.
I know you know about this state.
I would just remind people of my experiences out there which convinced me beyond all possible doubt, we are so loved there is absolutely nothing to fear because of so much orderly process over there, and that would include massive PUL operating.
I don't care what they say, its an adventure to transit. :)

a friend of mine on myspace put it rather well, he said we can die right here while in ELS while still in the body.
then since you're already dead, you don't die.
I'd just reword this to get busy right now on the life review work, fixing broken relationships, then you don't have to do it on the other side and can just create a new life with new people.
all the life reviewer guides want to know is did you do anything dirty to someone this time around? if so they just want you to fix the hurt. then you're free.

you already know this stuff. love to you, alysia

nothing ever really ceases to exist, because there is no such thing as time in the afterlife... everything just happens all at the same time... or at no time, because time doesn't exist.  of course our human minds can't conceive of such a thing, because our minds are tied to the concept of time.

anyway, if there's no time, how could anything begin or end?  it just is.  

but assuming we follow that line of thought, that your body dies and it's gone...  it's not a big deal, because your soul still exists.  and people can also change their soul to resemble any human form they want to.  it seems nobody misses earth and the human body, once they get back into their spirit form.

Time exists more in a subjective manner, but in real it is simultary. All time is now. You can experience time, whenever you like in the afterlife as you can play games on your computer that plays in different time ages, but they are at the same time on your (hard)disc.