Hi ive finished with the spiritualist church as they ask every other fledgeling medium there to go on stage except me and Deanna,they let all the others do healing there but not me and Deanna,they let everyone help with the church except me and Deanna,same old story where ever me and Deanna go,we are always the ones that dont count and i told them tonight at the spiritualist church that im not going anymore ,I cant take it inside anymore,being the twins who never fit in ,so ive given up completely now ,im just going to exist now until i join my dad in the spirit world because i realise its the best way to do it,dont try anymore and then you dont have anything to worry about or even have to try to fit in anymore, I for one dont much care anymore. :(

Im just going to go to St Peters church,where all they talk about is God and Jesus,because i realise now that God and Jesus probably think that im worth something,its the hardest thing to have tried so many years to fit into things,I told my priest when  he started going on at me about getting back into the community and as i listened to him going on and on i finally told him,that i wanted the community but the community did not want me,as i said that he just looked at me and he changed the subject,its alright for him to preach to me about going out into the big wide world and doing my bit, I done all that and it just hasnt worked,because after all hes got a safe cushy little job in the church praying for everyone and doing the odd funeral or wedding now and again. :(

Sorry to be so negative but ive had enough of things and im feeling sorry for myself right now,how many times are you supposed to keep trying,I feel that ive done all my trying, so im just going to drift along the path of life, until i dont hath to anymore.When you go to that clarvoyance at the spiritualist church ,your supposed to leave your troubles outside the door because the medium says spirit like to see laughter and happiness in the church ,well i love spirit but i cant just leave every thing outside the door and pretend to be this happy go lucky soul,thats probably why i have not had a message from my dad for weeks,even he must think im beyond help,but i cant sit in the church laughing just to please everyone,if you dont feel like laughing ,then thats it you cant laugh.  :(

Life is crap,well most of the time anyway. :-/

Love and God bless      Love Juditha

Dear Juditha,

Remember, this too shall pass and you'll be back to sharing your loving insights again.

Much Love, Jean :-* :-*

Hi Juditha. Sympathise but don't if you can manage it judge yourself or the others, or get angry or down. Don't know anything about those guys but before you give up remember that religious institutions are like those you find in society.

They basically end up being hierarchies with pecking orders. What's regarded as acceptable is determined by the culture they evolve, and if as elsewhere in life you don't fit this you stand to get some kickback. The apparently pious can often be playing all sorts of self interested games as a part of this.

But remember  - the culture usually reflects a mainstream view, but less mainstream or even higher truths by definition are not mainstream views. So there's nothing wrong with being in a different place provided it's not just the result of stubbornness.

Be mindful too that your own truth doesn't need to be affirmed by others - that's your call. So don't inadvertently come to depend on this.

In the mix there's usually some good people in there for the right reasons, and there's usually wisdom in the teachings too if you sift to get at the core and not the stuff that props up the institution. So usually  there's still good stuff in there.

So the game is to be practical about it - just access what you need at your age and stage, don't stick your neck out too far, and don't take any of it as targeting you. Just do your bit to help out where you can, take what you can and not worry too much about the rest.

It's all OK anyway. Institutions have people in them at all sorts of stages on the path, and what you get reflects this variety. It has to be that way, otherwise there would be nothing there for most people.

If after time it's clear there's just nothing there or the approach is genuinely not your cup of tea then do consider moving on....

Juditha--- read what I posted in Message from ISH.  I was raised in a formal religion. But, after seeing much hypocrisy, by the time I was 26 years old, I allowed Spirit and Soul to be my teachers. If God wants to visit me, He/She can come into my home and soul anytime.  I don't need a fancy building for my worship.  I just step outside my door and feel God within me.  I don't even have to leave the room I'm in.
My mother-in-law had a difficult time with my non-belief in a structured religion.  She begged me  to get forgiveness from the priest and go back to church.  I used this reversed scenario on her:
Do you really think, that when you die, God will look at you and say: "Ruth--- I don't want you. You are white and I only accept blacks.  You are Catholic; I only accept Jews. You are heterosexual and I only take homosexuals."?? She said "Noooo".  I taught her a lesson about PUL.  You are very fortunate to have your twin sister to share your deepest most inner beliefs with.  I don't have anyone immediately with me that shares my total belief in "spirit and soul" and a Creator of ALL. The only thing I learned that was positive from my religious upbringing was that we have "free will".  Thank God (pun intended).   :P  
Don't judge the others from the Spiritalist Church.  You and Deanna  are way beyond them in your spiritually and love and inner knowledge.  You have a church right within yourself.  Your very own temple where you may worship as loudly or as quietly, without judgement, as you please. And when you need to have a community to rejoice with you---- we are here!!

Hi Juditha, maybe it is the time now to get some rest from communities and have some quiet time with yourself and your loved ones?
We all want to be loved and want to feel we have a place in the society, but sometimes it just doesn't work, then to say goodbye is painful, but can be relieving as well! Maybe there is something new waiting for you?

Spooky

Juditha:

I am certain that God and the spiritual beings you are close to love and accept you and Deanna completely. I am also certain that I and some other members on this forum love and accept you and Deanna completely. So you don't have to worry about being rejected by anybody. There are so many that love and accept you completely.

Hi Recoverer,spooky2,identicat,JKeyes,vajra Thanks so much for your loving words for me and Deanna ,you have made us feel so much a part of everything on this site,thanks so much for being such loving friends to us as we love you all as well and everyone on here,this is the first place The Afterlife that we have ever felt like we truly belong and we thank you all again for making us feel like we fit in ,this means so much to us.

Love and God bless you     Love Juditha and Deanna xxxxxxx

Juditha,

Good decision!  I'd expect you to sense a positive spiritual difference almost immediately.

Don

Your feeling of depression and rejection puzzles me. What is this,
some genetic oddity? Some people are naturally happy, it is innate,
and some are not. I am wondering, could you have some quirk of
personality that I don't know about, that keeps people away from
you? What could it be? Or maybe it will change now that you have
found us.

You seem to fit right in here. I read your posts because you deal
with the kind of material I come here to read, and have the kind of
experiences that I want to know about. Also, I love you and Deanna,
that is just a spontaneous reaction I get from you two. I have a
folder entitled "family", and in it are the pictures of a lot of
people from this forum and other forums, people like Alysia, linn,
Michelle, Mendel, Bob, Kathy, Jenn, Fire Queen, etc. Deanna's
picture is there, but when I went to add your picture, Juditha, it
was gone. So I would like it if you send me a picture of you by
email so I can have it in the folder.

Much love, Boris

Juditha:

I feel and totally empathhize with your pain. I too have felt as though I never fit in. I felt different, unusual,like the odd one out for my entire life. I often times feel like an alien. Many of the people on this board share a unique (yet not so unique as this philosophy has been in extistance since the beggining of time)philosophy and world view. People can be very unaccepting of people who don't fit into the norm, or think the way of the majority. It is a human need to feel accepted so I feel it would be unrealistic to blow off  (even if only by perception) other peoples' opinion of you entirely.Yes, some people seem to be terminally happy. Good on them. You and I have experienced alot of pain, but we are still in the game. Life seems set up to breed negativity so it is very difficult to remain optomistic 100 percent of the time; especially if it seems as if the odds are striked against you. I have had a very difficult year (life for that matter). Just as things appeared as though they couldn't get any worse, they got much worse! My life has fallen apart piece by peice and you couldn't imagine how many times I just wanted to end it. I won't because of loving friends and family and the guilt I would feel for the pain I would cause them. I am also worried about the spiritual reprucussions. There is also some force that keeps carrying me through this journey,something keeps me fighting. It seems there is more pain than joy and each and every day is a struggle. Like kermit the frog says-its not easy being green! Sometimes I have to remind myself that beautiful souls have been prosecuted by the masses throughout time because they didn't share a mainstream belief/outlook/philosophy. There was Ghundi of course, and Jesus and many others. Maybe certain souls (such as you and I) chose this difficult path so that we could master self love in the face of adversity.We may forget that to a certain extent we chose to face this pain in order for our soul to evolve.We will get through this rough patch because we are destined to. We will never be the same and we are still here because we have a special gift to offer the world. It sucks, we don't want to go through this, we want to give up (at least I do). James Van Phraag has a theory that certain over ambitious souls decided to reincarnate before their time, despite counsell advising against this. These souls chose difficult paths and decided to reincarnate before their souls were mature enough to handle such a difficult path. As a result, these souls have often felt excluded their whole lives. They felt as though they were always the odd ones out and they never fit in and it just wasn't their time. This is frequently the reason for suicides. Sometimes I feel as if I was one of these very souls. I soooo don't feel like I belong. You are probably sensitive like me (and many others on this forum). It is harder if you are sensitive because you can get lost and drown your self in emotions, other peoples energy, and especially negativity. You feel more. You are affected. Its a blessing and a curse. I can't offer you advise because I am experiencing the same thing, but I can tell you that you are not alone in your pain. Sometimes I feel crazy. Life is like a strange dream, I am detached like I am watching a bad movie. It can be easy to fall into depression and be apathetic. You will make it through this, so will I.There is a reason we chose this path. It won't be revealed to us untill it is the right time. There will be another layer of  depth added to our character and we will be bring back valuable experience to our soul group. Not every soul could handle the cards that we were delt. But we must face this! Maybe we will never be the same, and thats a good thing! Just be fortunate that certain people love us and understand us and accept us.We don't always have to hide our pain behind a smile. We can find strength through the people who love us unconditionally, more importanly, we can find strength within our selves.

Love

Baby_duck

Basically we are all freaks. We all know of the afterlife and talk about it freely.
People aren't ready for it.

We just have to learn to accept it and move on, while at the same time try to help others to see the truth.

I can honestly say I don't fit in with friends anymore.
Being a 20 year old who says he KNOWS that there is life after death is not so hot.

On feeling depression and rejection. There's potentially lots more to it than this but my own recent experience has been that while your basic nature is wisdom and compassion and all positive that  implies that you can obscure it with quite a heavy duty layer of negative conditioning. By judging your self or resisting or perceiving situations as negative when they arise.

A very wise lady recently pointed out my habit in this regard when I complained that i was finding the going fairly tough. Point being not that you somehow force yourself to be positive about everything, but rather that whatever thought or emotion arises just let it lie unjudged.

Don't self criticise, just be easy with it and thank yourself for doing a wonderful job of bringing the issue into  consciousness. Because whatever it is once it becomes conscious it gets fixed  But heap loads of especially self directed negativity on to it (what else is feeling unwanted and unwelcome except self criticism/judgement?) and your mind will simply suppress it, accumulate it and ensure it stays unreleased and leaves you feeling down.

It's surprising just how much working this way can raise your vibe in a matter of days. You basically need to stay mindful enough to catch negative emotions and thoughts arising in response to situations. Most of these are no more than mental habit anyway, and not particularly related to the reality of the situation you are faced with. You really do have the choice of deciding how you see yourself, and often it's as simple as that.

This amounts to self love, compassion for self or whatever. And as we all know if you don't feel love for yourself it's hard to show love for others. Which they sense, which increases the likelihood of negative responses.

Having bought yourself some space the opportunity for skilful means is now available. When you rest easy you can be wise about handling  situations - because you are not forced into unwise actions by your pain. Maybe size up the group, figure out what generates kickback and keep your head down with a view to accessing the bits that matter to you and helping where you can in return. Or decide that the game is not worth the candle and ease off elsewhere.

Pardon me if i'm lecturing or being too direct.......

Hi Boris I dont think its my personality that does this as i am the sort ofperson who takes everyone i meet for who they are ,i have a very loving personality ,which i think i have done well there to even keep my love for human nature ,considering that i and Deanna have been put down as human beings since as long as i can remember,i love my mom but she told us from a very young age that we were stupid and that she wished we were like all her friends daughters and she always seemed ashamed of us,which as a little girl i could not understand but got wiser as i got older and i began to realise what the words thick and stupid meant and that me and Deanna were not as good as anyone else.We were told this all through our life and we have grown up with these words fixed inside our minds,which is why i go to this centre and i am being reasurred every day by the helpers there that i am worth something,and they told me i have got to learn to love me,Deanna starts the centre this week to try and overcome the same problems.

I am gradually coming to terms with the fact that i am something and i belong in this world somewhere,Deannas the same.When your told from being a child to an adult that theres something wrong with you,its really hard to beleive there isnt,but i know that God loves us and he knows we are trying to get there and we will in the end,because God will help us,we love you all on here.mom has told us both sorry for all of it.

Love and God bless     Love Juditha

Hi Juditha,

I'll trade you your 'thick and stupid' for my 'big galute.'  :)
But Alysia will probably want in on this too, so let's not make a deal quite yet.

Bets

Juditha said: I am gradually coming to terms with the fact that i am something and i belong in this world somewhere,Deannas the same.When your told from being a child to an adult that theres something wrong with you,its really hard to beleive there isnt,but i know that God loves us and he knows we are trying to get there and we will in the end,because God will help us,we love you all on here.mom has told us both sorry for all of it.
____

hold on lol,  :) you're not alone Juditha, me mom said she dropped me on me head! that was how she explained everything... :(  look how long it takes a human being to get over what was told to us in childhood!   you and I have been interacting out there in spirit land my dear, I'd say that makes us incredibly bright!

love ya, just the way u R! alysia

Hi Baby Duck  Reading what you have written has so much in it what relates to me as well,i have sometimes considered suicide,wishing i was with my dad in the spirit world,where there is nothing but love,but like you i think of what it would do to my family and friends if i did this and i realise now that i chose this difficult path to walk,we all love you on here baby duck to read what you write and to give you our answers with love.

Hi vajra  I dont think you are lecturing or being to direct,I welcomed what you wrote,there is a lot of positives thoughts in there and has given me something to think about.

Hi Ra Being 20 and talking about the afterlife to your friends can cause a bit of uninterest from them as they are more interested in having a good time at that age,so they dont fully understand why you at there age, is into things like the afterlife,but one day they will start to ask you questions about your knowledge of spirit and they will be glad that you can give them the answers.

Hi Bets  Thanks for saying what you have,you have such a loving heart.

Hi Don Your right I did have a positive spiritual experience,after i read all the words on love on here.

Hi aylsia I agree with you,we are  incredibly bright and we both will keep interacting out there in the spirit land,till we finally get to stay there,I hope when we are all over there one day we can all get together  and have a spiritual party,with lots of celestial strawberries and cream.

Love and God bless all of you     Love Juditha

Hi Juditha-
If I interpret correctly, your friends and neighbors are called upon to show off their psychic skills, and you and Deanna are not, perhaps because of the prejudices of the church members. This seems to echo the words "thick and stupid", that Mom dumped on you, and they echo the words in a way that makes it seem like you are again being judged. And, no doubt, you are.

However, when anyone makes a judgement, it applies first to themselves. Recall, "Judge not that ye be not judged, for as ye judge, so shall ye be judged." So, these people are demonstrating to you what happens when people get prejudicial and uptight. This has nothing to do with your psychic abilities - which not only seem to be pretty good, but you're growing at a pretty rapid clip.

Given the fact that all these rejections actually have nothing to do with you or Deanna, but arise from the faulty judgement of the critics in the church, I suggest that you ignore it.

Our minds do not work as a single unit with the same skill levels throughout. For example, the idea that a person who is slow in figuring out a problem in math is also stupid as a musician is obviously nonsense. There are lots of good musicians who can't balance a check book, and lots of mathematicians who couldn't carry a tune in a bucket.

We have at least a half dozen individual skills, and in each skill area we may be good, or maybe not so hot. Some skills are even highly particular - for example in my math skills, I have a terrible time with calculus,  I started the course 5 times before I got the idea and could pass it, but geometry is easy for me. The social awareness of the people in your church seems to be pretty stupid, otherwise they'd be able to recognize your competency - unless they're worried that you might be better than them. :-)  - But they have given you a good course in psychic development, which is a high level of function in that area. So it's all a mixed bag.

Since there is no way to generalize, my suggestion is also to accept that you are being drawn to your calling, and that it will occasionally be bumpy, and occasionally easy. What will make certain that you  arrive at the goal is not the praise of the public as you perform, but the goodness of your heart, your faith that God has a plan for you, and your willingness to keep on going.  

As you go past each of these trials, the problem  loses the ability to act as a stumbling block, and as you overcome it, it starts to look like a stepping stone. And that is how we handle life anyway.

Since you are evidently a good Christian, think how the early disciples were shunned, and how the early members of the church not only were not allowed to show off their skills, but were fed to the lions in the Coliseum. You are in good company! Stick with it!

PUL
d

Juditha,

I don't want you to give up on going to the spiritualist chuch if your heart truly doesn't want you to.  Maybe the others are jealous of the natural give you and Deanna have and are acting ugly.  Childish for sure.  

I second what Dave said.  I'll admit that I never passed Algebra II and had to go to summer school.  Even with a tutor that year I still failed it.  Talk about embarrassing! ::)  I am a musician and have been since I was a child.  I sing and play the piano and this gift I have been given is more important than passing some goofy Algebra.

I also agree that stepping back a little bit might be just the thing that brings out your gift even more and is confirmation that you might want to go back.  It's not fun to be in the presence of someone who makes you feel less than you are, so I can completely understand why you and Deanna want to stay away for a while.  

Follow your heart and you will end up in the right place.  Decisions, decisions....  You have a gift.  You already know this and I believe in you so keep your chin up.  By the way, I go to church at St. Peter too.  In Memphis, TN.   :D

Katie  :)

For those that say they feel lonely and don't fit I think you are far braver than you realise. Most of my friends and family don't even know that I'm into all this and have Bruce's book and cd's. I am too afraid to even bring it up with most people.
My sister is basically a mainstream Christian and she laughed in my face when I told her about spiritualism and New Age philosophies, prophecies like 2012 etc. I told her she was 'close minded' because she didn't want to hear things which challenged her beliefs. Its fortunate that my mum is open minded and she is interested in what I have to say but noone really understands me and my 'afterlife explorations' and 'wierd' beliefs. Sometimes the only outlet I have to discuss these things is this forum!

So Juditha and Deanna I hope you find somewhere where you are happy. You have a gift and you were meant to use it.

Never say die

It's not the easiest path. My wife is a little interested, but frequently resorts to cynicism. My kids refer to me as a hippy. It does get very lonely sometimes.  ;) But on the other hand there's lots of other 'hippies' around, and at least we don't get burnt at the stake like in the old days...

Hi Dave I have always all through my life so far have run away from the sort of thing i've had at the church and i realise now after reading what you have wrote that i must start to face things instead of walking away and thats what im going to do from now on,the centre i go to tell me lots of times that i must beleive in myself that im worth it and that i belong in this world just as much as anyone else does.Knowing my luck if i had been around in long ago times i either would have been fed to the lions or burnt at the stake,so thanks for the encouraging words you have written.

Hi Kate I have decided to keep going to the church as your right,i should follow my heart and realise the gift i have.

Hi never say die I had the same with my mom as she would never beleive anything i told her about spirit,but my dad did and i could always talk to him about it,but when dad died,mom started to ask me about spirit and she actually now is very interested in what i tell her of the spirit world.

Hi vajra  It isnt always the easiest path,i have come up against a lot of opposition sometimes when i was working in a factory and i told them what i did as a medium,i got laughed and told sometimes that i did not know about spirit and that spirit did not exist and even sometimes from family as well,but i always think that they were missing out on so much for not beleiving  that life goes on after death.

Love and God Bless       Love Juditha

Good luck Juditha. I guess learning to pick up the vibes on who to confide in, and who not is part of the learning too. You'll probably find if you get relaxed enough that your antenna is very good indeed, just that your anxieties are blanking the feed and causing you to walk into trouble.

Self belief or ultimately self love/compassion is an issue for most of us in the West I think. We all seem to spend our whole lives guiltily or fearfully trying to live up to impossible requirements (which aren't important, or not our own truths anyway) set by others. So we can be 'successful' or something. Ha!!

It takes two to tango. Our own sensitivity and dislike of feeling we have done wrong by another means we take the blame on board, are very slow to think that maybe something else is wrong here. (hard to do that as a young child anyway, we normally  don't have what it takes)

And while there are many exceptions quite a few of us have never really had much by way of compassion expressed towards us, only an authoritarian dictat that we always do better and punishment for 'failing'. Lots of witholding of affection to encourage 'correct' behaviours too.

So we often develop a mental pattern where we try to stay out of trouble by becoming perfectionists. Which quickly runs out of control, and becomes an obsessive need to be that and a chronic sense of foreboding that we will be found out.

There's no doubt lots of variations on this, but we're not good on unconditional love in Western society. What passes for love tends to be highly disciplinarian.

It's a big issue for me. Concern about possible imperfect outcomes somehow in my mind gets converted into 'my fault. But the transition is subsconscious, and the resulting emotion is basically a feeling of chronic anxiety, or impending doom - presumably fear that some parent figure is going to clobber me over it. Leading to blood pressure and other health problems. Except there isn't any, it's just my mind following the same worn old groove.

I'm still working the issue, but I've slowly but steadily over the years got good results from spiritual healing sessions, Brandon Bay's the Journey techniques, Buddhist ngondro practices to feed love to myself and to release blame.

The TMI CD set Opening the Heart has helped me a lot, especially CD 3 Loves Power to Heal which contains assisted exercises similar to the ngondro practice and does a great job of raising vibration and eliminating depression as well.

I did quite a lot of hanging around in focus 12 and 15 asking for input and eventually got a very clear message in the form of a knowing to the effect that my issue was a blockage in the heart chakra. Which confirmed why lots of compassion related insight had been coming into my life during the previous year.

The most recent step was help from a lady in N Carolina (which I posted about) who confirmed this insight (she reads past lives) and gave me a technique similar to the ACIM forgiveness technique to bring stuff into consciousness. To always thank yourself when insight arises whether nice or nasty, and to never suppress or judge it. To just accept it for what it is.

Somehow she put it in such a way that I suddenly had clear insight into what I was doing to myself. Self compassion was no longer an abstract idea. And it's amazing how the vibe has lightened since. Hopefully it'll continue.

So don't give up. Be brave in facing stuff, but not harsh in how you judge your response to it. or unwise ins etting yourself up for pain. And get working. Don't know if you meditate, but lots of it is good as the resulting space leaves room for insight, makes the compu.lsive conditioned responses less likely....

Ian