This is a message I receaved from my ISH durring the week of my Guidelines at RMR this past May. Please excuse my poor spelling. Comment if you like.

The most important thing to remember is that only through opening of the total love energy are you able to fully receave full benefit of your physical life experience.
Love everthing! Exceptence of difference and understanding of subtle changes going on in everone and everthing is important. Except these changes as effcacious and that without them you will not grow. Not all of lifes lessions are meant to be happy ones. Some will be perplexing and most difficult to understand and except. Go with the flo. Be prepared to except life with it's difficulties, without reservation. Know I will always be there to love you and to help you along the way. You will not always like the lession but you will the knowledge it brings. Enjoy yourself and show love at every opportunity you can.Love is your mission, both sending and receaving. Always except the misgivings of others as shortfalls in yourself. Except all small acts of charity or assistance without reservation as they are love expression. Return the same or more love back in return. Enjoy this life, you asked to live it with all its ups and downs. Have faith in your abilities. You know, you know. Most of all, love yourself, love me, love your lesson. we love you.

OMG  Joe !!! Read your ISH (Inner Self-Helper) letter, and this will blow your mind!!! Mine has a very similar message about PUL.  
Dearest Carol, The best we can say to you is to let go.  We truly understand your sensitivity and concern for the physical existence you choose to live in.  We delight in your love for people and nature. We delight in the knowing that you take the time to share. We delight to look into your essence--- your heart, soul and spirit.  You are so very close to us.  We love you.
The upcoming months may bring your despair, but we are always with you.  All you need to do is take a deep breath--- go to 10 (focus 10) and remember our love to you.  We know changes are all about you, but you are also all about change.  Don't get discouraged. Your kindness to others has not gone unnoticed or unfelt.  
You have a great love for your family ---and always will.  You have a great love for Spirit-- and we love you.  You cannot solve the problems of the planet all by yourself; you are part of the solution.  Keep your mantras and prayers coming-- as they are heard.   With love ISH

It is good to see that love was included in the messages. My spirit guidance makes a point of saying that people need to grow in love for the World to change. I figure if thought is an energy that can move around and effect people, then so is love. It seems to me that the energy of love, whatever it is, has various levels to it. It isn't just a matter of it feeling good. It has an intelligence. If we share love "energy" with others, they'll be inwardly inspired and also radiate love that comes from within, and before you know it you have a love dominoes game going on.

Wonderful scenario.  ;)

how did you receive your message from your ISH?

dear Hawkeye, this is great wisdom that all can use and Carol's almost the same. I get similar messages. glad u posted. love, alysia

Greetings Hawkeye Joe and other posters,

Yes, this is very timely for me also.  
Please thank your Inner Self helper for me too.

:) Love, Bets

Hawkeye:

Whatever its true origin, your message nicely expresses the essence of New Testament teaching on how to live one's life.  Particularly striking is the parallel between the Risen Jesus' promise in Matthew 28:20 and Ish's assurance, "Know I will always be there to love you and to help you along the way."  Like Jesus, Ish urges you: "...Love me."  To regularly manifest PUL one must learn how to refuel.  One needs to remain in intimate contact the Source of PUL.  This sustained contact is the most basic meaning of worship.  If you get another chance to contact Ish, ask "Him" directly if "He" is Jesus incognito.  To grasp further why this is an intriguing possiblitity, consider parallels (1) -(5) below:

(1) In Hebrew "ish" means "man."  In that sense, your source seems to be concealing his true identity.  Interestingly, Jesus' most enigmatic and common self-designation is the title "Son of Man."  In both Hebrew and Aramaic (Jesus' Hebrew dialect), this expression is simply the equivalent of "Man."  Perhaps, Christ is the true identity of "Ish."  If so, He may be masking His identity out of respect for your lack of a conscious relationship with Him.  

(2) Jesus' "Son of Man" title is inspired by the vision in Daniel 7:13-14, in which an enigmatic messianic figure is known simply as "one like a son of man."  The New Testament also designates Jesus as the Second Adam or Primal Man.

(3) In John 1:1, 14 Jesus is celebrated as "the Word" (Greek: "Logos").  This Greek term means "the rational self-expression of God" as opposed to God in His unknowability.  In atheist Howard Storm's NDE, Jesus rescues him from hellish torment.  Among Jesus' revelations to Storm is the claim that Jesus (as the Logos)  reveals Himself under many other identities to souls from non-Christian traditions and indeed from other worlds.  

(4) In NDEs, the Being of Light often reveals Himself as Jesus to Christians and occasionally (but rarely) to Muslims and Jews.  But the Being of Light generally remains incognito and allows the clinically dead patient to project a comforting identity onto "Him" that is compatible with that patient's religious background and comfort zone.

(5) I strongly suspect that "Ish" is the same being repeatedly encountered by Bob Monroe and known simply as "He."  For example, to quote Monroe,

"Where are the God and heaven that we worship?  Have I missed something?  
And yet, at times, in visiting Locale II, a a very unusual event periodically occurs.  It makes no difference where in Locale II, the event is the same.  In the midst of normal activity, whatever it may be, there is a distant Signal, almost like heraldic trumpets.  Everyone takes the Signal calmly, and with it, everyone stops speaking or whatever he may be doing.  iT IS THE SIGNAL THAT HE IS COMING THROUGH HIS KINGDOM....It is an occurrence to which all are accustomed and to comply takes absolute precedence over everything.  There are no exceptions."  

"At the Signal, each living thing lies down--my impression is on their backs, bodies arched to expose the abdomen..., with head turned to one side so that one does not see Him as He passes by.  The purpose seems to be to form a living road over which He can travel.  I have gleaned the idea that occasionally He will select someone from this living bridge, and that person is never seen or heard from again.  The purpose of the abdominal exposure is an expression of faith and complete submissiveness..."

In the several times that I have experienced this, I lay down with the others.  At the time, the thought of doing otherwise was inconceivable.  As He passes, there is a roaring musical sound and a feeling of radiant irresistible living force of ulitmate power that peaks overhead and fades in the distance..."

"After His passing, everyone gets up again and resumes their activities.  There is no comment or mention of the incident, no further thought about it.  THERE IS COMPLETE ACCEPTANCE OF THE EVENT AS AN ORDINARY PART OF THEIR LIVES...Is this God?  Or God's son?"  ("Journeys Out of the Body,"  122-23)

Striking parallels to the exalted Christ's biblical signature include: the heraldic trumpets (1 Thessalonians 4:16), "His" aura of omnipotence, "His" blinding raidiance (Acts 9:1-9), )the "Kingdom" motif, the universal reaction of reverence and submission (Philippians 2:9-11; Revelation 5:13), and "His" role in soul retrievals (1 Peter 3:18-20; 4:6).  

Don

Don---- we all know you love Jesus and his teachings.  However-- our ISH was contacted after a meditation at the Monroe Institute which is non-denominational.  We were told to spend a couple of hours in silence and reach within our selves to our Inner Self Helper--- our personal spirit guide and allow his/her thoughts to come through, without prejudice.  My self helpers are Hug and Nape.  When they present themselves to me, they don't always take on the spirit of Jesus or a saint. Sometimes they appear as just a plain old bloke.  Sometimes she's Mother Nature.  These are my helpers. Like the spirit Jesus, they are HIB's (Higher Intelligent Beings). I value your insight and wisdom.  Although all human beings are equal, we do not all "believe" the same.    
I read your post with great love and interest, however, I like the non-denominational approach.  It seems to include ALL.   ;)

Identcat,

Since you are apparently familiar with my past posts, I don't really understand your comments.   I have read all 3 of Monroe's books, and so, am well aware of how Ish is typically contacted at TMI.   If you reread my post, you will recognize that it is precisely the nonsectarian nature of TMI that prompts my 5-point case for Christ POSSIBLY adopting His typical practice of communicating incognito to accomodate Himself to the comfort zone of nonbelievers.   And as I demonstrate, "Ish" is precisely the sort of circumlocution Jesus might be expected to use, given his common use of "Son of man" (the Aramaic equivalent of "Ish") as a self-reference during His earthly ministry.  Jesus spoke both Hebrew and the Hebrew dialect Aramaic and this etymology of "Ish" seems to underlie "Ish's" self-designation.  IF so, then an intended connection with Jesus seems quite plausible.

Don

The question is, Don, is it the message that is important, or the identity of the messenger?  If the message is more important than the earthly ego-based identity, then Identcat simply prefers to agree with the message, but not focus on the messenger.

It is the saying  "I am the Way, and the Truth, and the Life.  No one comes to the Father except through Me," (John 14:6) that is interpreted in different ways, and offends some non-Christians, who interpret it to mean that without worshipping Christ by name they are unable to know God or enter heaven.

Identcat, I believe that Don is being nondenominational in a way, by saying that JC may be appearing to non-christians in different forms with the same message.  It is intriguing to see the analogies from nonreligious people and christian scholars.  

The power of love, love of one's fellow man, one's self and God, carries the same message.  Whether this is uncovered by TMI or christian scripture - it is not a contest.  No enlightened soul will laud his religious beliefs over another, for the very act of doing so, of creating the exclusionary terms in so doing is an unloving act.

So I relish the similarities between Don's insights and TMI.  The confirmation on a larger level of cosmic love is very empowering.

Matthew

[Matthew:] "The question is, Don, is it the message that is important, or the identity of the messenger?"
__________________________

In my view, the nature (loving, powerful, presence within us, etc.), not the identity of "the messenger" is important.  I'm confident that no one loses their "salvation" simply because they have either never heard of Jesus or never felt drawn to Him.  In this respect, I like the answer of "Jesus and the angels" to atheist Howard Storm's question during his NDE:

"Question: Which is the best religion?  I was expecting them to answer with something like Methodist or Presbyterian or Catholic, or some other denomination.  They answered, `The religion that brings you closest to God."
(My Descent into Death, 73).'"  

Both Howard Storm's NDE and Swedenborg's astral explorations discover that the truth of Jesus' status and role will be revealed to unbelievers after their deaths.  But this revelation has nothing to do wtih their eternal destiny.

[Matthew:] "If the message is more important than the earthly ego-based identity, then Identcat simply prefers to agree with the message, but not focus on the messenger."
_________________________

The issue for me is whether one can potentially regularly channel PUL without regularly refueling from its Source, that is, without directing love towards that Source in the context of intimate union with it ("Him/Her").  Thus, Ish, Jesus, and God all direct us, "Love me."  In my traditon and personal experience, love for God greatly enhances love for others.  To the degree that we fail to love others as we should, this failure is often due to a cooling of our loving devotion to God.  PUL is more than some cosmic emotion or energy; it is a way of being and as such is defined by "impure" and "conditional" counterfeits manifested in flawed ways of being.  Otherwise, what do the words "pure" and "unconditional" mean in the expression "pure unconditinal love?"  I believe that our capacity for PUL is diminished by pretending to manifest it regularly without any intimate connection with its Source.  Why do so many New Agers assume that the Creator created PUL but has no desire or will that PUL also be directed towards "Him/ Her" through our awareness of our connection with "Him/Her?"  As Jesus informs Howard Storm,

"The love of God, the love of neighbor, and the love of self are inseparable parts of a whole that cannot be divided...The only authentic love in this world is achieved when there is a balance between love of God, love of neighbor, and love of self (50)."

However, Matthew's quest to view creation in terms of the unity of everything might be the functional equivalent of a loving unity or connection with "God."  Jesus'  NDE disclosure to Storm about the use of "The One" as a preferable designation for God seems quite compatible with Matthew's quest:

"The angels refer to God in many ways, but the term most often used is The One.  God is The One because because God is the source of everything.  There is NO THING other than God.  Everything came from God and everything returns to God (Storm 69)."

Don

Greetings   :),

Are you all talking about (what Christians call) 'Christ-consciousness'?
Meaning simply, that one is fully-'realized,' fully-'aware,' and operating
from an extremely 'high', God-tuned, Highest-Power consciousness
that any human is designed to develop eventually?

I can see where agnostics and people of other faiths don't like the term
'Christ-consciousness.' So they probably don't like the historical Jesus Christ
being a culturally predominant example of such consciousness.

Kurt Leland's book 'Otherwhere', I hear, has some charts showing comparisons of terminology that might help us get beyond our misunderstandings. We certinly don't need more Babel!  :)  I just ordered that book and hope it will help me to understand us all !  ;)

Love, Bets

Hi Bets & all,

Just finished Leland's Otherwhere and am still digesting it. It definatly appears to increase awarness of belief systems including the Christian one and also reinforces that it's all about LOVE, LOVING, .... The final chapter also has a nice overview of current ways to access the non-physical for information, sharing, exploring, etc.

I also just finished a book writen by a Tucson U of A psychology professor, The Chanter's Guide by Victor Shamas that introduces the reader to chanting, individual and group, as a way to access nonphysical reality.  Again the main purpose to do this is to share LOVE, LOVING,... to heal.  I was invited to go to the weekly Global Chant in our city but I continue to prefer Monroe and Bruce's method for travel.

Love, Jean :-*

is it the message that is important, or the identity of the messenger?  
Ditto!  
I do not intend to "shoot the messenger" IE: Jesus.  The messages from JC also come from a Higher Intelligent Being.  I was taught that I will NEVER be worthy to see the face of God.  Yet, when I read Rosalind McKnight's book (I think in her first book "Cosmic JOurneys")  she had a vision of her "angel" who wrapped it's wings around her and brought her to a higher plane. When her/she unwrapped it's wings, "I was in the presence of God".  That made sense to me.  The great source she was before didn't represent a religious belief. But the message was there.  I also read Howard Storm's "My descent into death".  He also state: "God works in mysterious ways to build our faith." Chapter 16 page 125 . This does not just refer to a structured belief system, but also the faith we have in "life after death."

I learn a lot from you, Don. So keep on posting.  I learn a lot from everyone who shows so much love that they take the time to respond to another's comments.  Thank you all for your words of wisdom.

'Amazing Grace how sweet the sound'

Relating to what Don brought up.

My feelings of Christ are based on my experiences rather than fundamentalist viewpoints.  I believe that Christ represents the creative principle through which God created this universe and shares his love and wisdom. One reason is as follows. One night I read an Elaine Pagels book which stated that the Gospel According to Thomas speaks of Jesus as enlightened person; the Gospels of Matthew, Mark and Luke speak of him as a messenger of God; and the Gospel of John speaks of him as God incarnate. That night before I went to sleep I asked for a dream which told me which version is true. In the middle of the night I woke up from a dream, turned on my night lamp, grabbed my dream journal and a pen, but then before I could write anything, I saw a light flash. It was significantly bigger and more powerful than any light I've seen flash before. It felt divine. It felt more real than the World.  I forgot about my dream notes, put my dream journal and pen away, turned off my night lamp, and allowed myself to be overcome with this presence. I didn't see or hear Jesus, but I knew this was the presence of Christ. The presence worked on my energy for about 15 minutes, in a manner that was beyond what my awakened kundalini has ever accomplished.

The feeling I got from the above is that Christ can appear anywhere he wants, because his presence is everywhere. This presence existed long before the body of Jesus was born into the World. Jesus was a human manifestation of the presence of Christ. A presence that existed long before the human word "Christ" existed.

If the above is hard to believe, is Bruce Moen's description of the planning intelligence hard to believe? Bruce wrote that the planning intelligence is the creator of several universes. Yet the planning intelligence stated that it isn't God. It did state that we all exist because of its "lent" awareness. Isn't it possible that when Bruce met the planning intelligence, he met what some people refer to as the presence of Christ? When I communicate with my spirit guidance, I don't see a spirit who looks like a person. I communicate with a presence I believe is everywhere, and anybody who wants to, can communicate with it.

I found that when I stopped relating Christ to fundamentalist viewpoints, and opened myself to his presence, a heart chakra block went away, and an energetic pathway from my throat chakra to my crown chakra cleared. I am now able to experience a divine presence I wasn't able to experience before.  It seems as if there are energetic pathways that exist specifically for the purpose of making a connection to Christ.

Regarding what Betson wrote:

I've read very little of Kurt Leland. He might have some good things to say, but I'm very sceptacle.

Why?

Because he is a huge Seth fan. Tried to channel Seth for a while, didn't work out, played around with ouija boards for a while (hardly the way to make contact with divine beings), and ended up channeling a Seth like entity named Charles.

I haven't read what Charles has to say, but if he is anything like Seth, another spirit supposedly conjured up by an ouija board, forget it.

Seth has been discussed quite a bit in the past. I won't bring up the entire discussion again. I will state a few things about him and/or Jane Roberts. They denied that Jesus was crucified with a story that has enough holes in it, it seems as if the pages the story occcurs on are made out of swiss cheese.

Jane Roberts/Seth also refer to three of Jesus' most famous quotes, and interpret them so they lose all spiritual meaning.  Below is how they misinterpreted one of his quotes. Before reading it, please consider the possibility that there might be a such thing as deceptive spirits. If deceptive people can exist, then why can't deceptive spirits exist? Also remember that Jane Roberts/Seth used the gospels as the basis of their argument, so they can't be denied as a part of the argument.

On page 414 of "A nature of a personal reality" Seth states: "The very term, "Love your neighbor as yourself, " was an ironic statement, for in that society no man loved his neighbor, but distrusted him heartily. Much of Christ's humor has been lost, therefore." The book references Matthew 19:19 and Mark 12:31.

The below is from Matthew:
18 He (a disciple) saith unto him (Jesus), Which (commandments one should keep)? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultry, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shall not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother; and, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF.

If as Seth suggests Jesus was just making a joke when he said "thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself," does this mean that he was also joking when he said the other above commandments?

Or did Jesus mean the first five commandments, but decided to throw in a joke at the end even though he was answering which commandments are important?'

Or did Seth show that he has deception in mind and can't be trusted?


Below is from Mark:
28 A scribe asked: Which is the first commandment of all?
29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30 And thou shalt love the Lord the God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this: THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF. There is none other commandment greater than these.  
32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and ther is none other but he:
33 And to love him with all the heart, and with the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbor as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God.  

I believe it is easy to see that Seth is "completely" wrong with his intentional misinterpretation of Jesus' famous quote.





betson wrote on Jun 10^th, 2007 at 10:59am:

Greetings   :), Kurt Leland's book 'Otherwhere', I hear, has some charts showing comparisons of terminology that might help us get beyond our misunderstandings. We certinly don't need more Babel!  :)  I just ordered that book and hope it will help me to understand us all !  ;) Love, Bets

Thank you for all of your comments. The different views and beliefs from all of you are most inspiring. This truely is a message board of love.

My ISH is myself(s), transcending time and space to assist me at this point in physical life reality. I consider myself as agnostic. Knowing yet still searching for fullfillment spiritually within my knowens.(sp) Loving this life for all its opportunities to learn and to expearence love in all its forms. I believe in an all encompassing God, yet not necessarily of a man called Jesus, to be anything more than but a man. Of God I know, of Jesus I ask  

Hi Carol The words you received from ISH are so full of love and i think its great that you recieved a message of love like this as i also had a message the other day full of love,spirit are always beside us and watching over us with there pure unconditional love.

Love and God bless       Love Juditha

Well, Hawkeye--- you started quite a thread!! I am like you--- more agnostic than following a "belief" system.  I am happy with who I am.  You met me--- so you know my love for people and nature and also for spirit.   It was my fortune to have met you in person.

And mine to have met you Carol Ann. How fortunate we are to have these meetings. When I look back at our shaired Guidelines week and recall the people who I met there, you were the one whom was willing to share your expearences openly and without hesitation, no matter what. Your openness made it far easier for all to open up to each other and our shaired experience.

PS: Did you check out the key-chain on the TMI store site?

Carol,
My Gateway, to Guidelines for Lifeline. All thanks to F21

Identcat:

Of course there is the possibility that some people have feelings for Christ not simply because they believe something, but because of what their experience tells them. I don't believe it is fair to suggest that Robert Monroe's model doesn't have anything to do with belief, while those who speak of Christ are simply waving around a belief system. Perhaps Robert Monroe and Bruce Moen would've run into Christ, if they were open to doing so. I've had experiences that included Christ that are hard to doubt, and so have others. For me and others such experiences aren't simply a matter us experiencing according to what our preconceived ideas "caused" us to experience.

I can understand how fundamentalism turned you off when it comes to Christ. It did the exact same thing for me. Eventually, I came to the point where I decided that I didn't want to make the mistake of minimalizing what Christ's existence is about, without really knowing. I've had a number of experiences which have told me that his existence does mean someting very significant.  On one occasion early on, I woke up in the middle of the night and was shown a crucifix. This troubled me since I wasn't open to having Christ as part of my life. Next I was shown an armless, headless, legless manekin, displayed on a department store floor. It had a white fur coat with black spots on it. I clearly understood this to mean, "they killed him, they put him on display, they spotted his reputation. I then experienced myself pressing the high C note on my piano. I understood this to mean that Christ represents the highest consciousness there is.

If a person closes his or her self off to what Christ is about because of how fundamentalism has upset he or she, it might be hard for he or she to see what Christ is truly about.

I don't mean to suggest that you have to believe in Christ in order to do well spiritually. If you're open to love, you're doing wonderfully. I just want to suggest that what Christ is about shouldn't be minimalized to some sort of belief system that only the unenlightened adhere to.


identcat wrote on Jun 11^th, 2007 at 4:05pm:

Well, Hawkeye--- you started quite a thread!! I am like you--- more agnostic than following a "belief" system.  I am happy with who I am.  You met me--- so you know my love for people and nature and also for spirit.   It was my fortune to have met you in person.

Yipes!!! I haven't had the time to look at the keychain!!! I will now.  I really will need it by the time the autumn comes.  It will be great to help find my car door lock!  Thanks for reminding me.  

My experiences with Christ : even as young child, I walked with him on a small street that lead from a town into the woods.  We were talking, as I would have spoken to my friend, and he spoke to me, likewise.  In my mind, he was like my father--- a Godly man that could very well have been married with children of his own.  He told me he was a teacher. I asked him if he could be married like my daddy, and he said yes.  He was loving and gentle.  (My father was a quiet man, reverent and respected by all.)  As I grew older, I visited this Jesus image many times.  When am acquaintance  of mine passed last year, I saw her in a retrieval jump into Jesus' arms and wrap her arms and legs around him like a small child would do. He laughed with her and she turned and gave me a thumbs up.  (My mother called me 3 hours later to tell me the lady passed on).  I do not become euphoric. When I attended the Caroline Myss' seminar, she "took" us to a room (in our soul's mind) and there I met God.  He appeared to me as a striking, muscular Norseman.  I went and sat on his lap and he cuddled me as he would a young child.  I was feeling PUL, not euphoric.  My father always said, "They all eat the same way as you. They all poop the same way you do."  I have total acceptance of  the love of Jesus and God and the spirits.  I don't believe----- I KNOW.

Fundamentalism scares the pants off me. With most major religions becoming more closed minded and un-excepting of others beliefs makes them to me all not worthy of beleaving in. Muslims who believe in jahad killing of Christens or Westerners, western religions who believe in letting their childern die instead of getting a blood transfusion. And many more. None of them have anything to do with the God I believe in.



 

It shouldn't scare you.

In this day and age we have nothing to fear from brain-dead fundamentalists.

Unless your fighting in Iraq  :-[

Identicat:

I too, have had retrievel experiences where Jesus appeared. The first time surprised me. I was talking to the guy I was trying to help, accross a bay the image of Jesus appeared, gold light radiated from him and filled the bay, the guy I was trying to help forgot about me, and floated over to where Jesus was.

Regarding knowing, that's a difficult one when we think with an ego based 3d mind. I believe there is a way of understanding that goes beyond and is certain.  Logic, no matter how clever, can't compare.

Hawkeye and Ra.


My hope is that somehow the level of love in this World increases to an extent, where it is hard for people to hold onto fundamentalist ideas such as a wrathful and jealous God; eternal damnation, and that women should be subservient.

Religion is nothing more than fairy tales and fear mongering used to control people.

We are all everlasting.
And we are gonna have partys forever in the afterlife ;D

Could these images of Jesus durring a retrieval perhaps be the drop off point to F23?

Even though I don't agree with fundamentalism, I can't say that I agree with what Ra wrote below. If one is intent on seeing the glass as half empty, then this is how one will see things, no matter how wet the water within the glass is. When it comes to Christians, I've mostly know people who have benefited by being Christian. Their faith has helped them be good people while in this World. My guess is that it also benefits them when they die. As opposed to ending up being people who have an overall mind set/vibrational rate that causes them to end up in a lower realm, they'll be able to cross over to a nicer place. Some have probably got stuck for a while, and remembered to call out for Jesus, as Howard Storm did during his NDE. I've seen the image of Jesus appear many times during retrievels. A sign that a person's faith in Christ serves them well.

I also know people of other religions, and they too, are also good people partly because of their faith.

If one is honest about it, one will see that a strong anti-religion stance is a form of prejudice. What's more important than those who try to control, is how people benefit through their own faith.



Ra. wrote on Jun 11^th, 2007 at 6:28pm:

Religion is nothing more than fairy tales and fear mongering used to control people. We are all everlasting. And we are gonna have partys forever in the afterlife ;D

Excelent point Recoverer. Although I have little personal regard for the institution of The Church, those whom worship within it are there benefiting from that expearence.

(My earlier post should have read F24/25, Belief System Territories)

Hawkeye:

I couldn't tell you what focus level they occur in. The way the pieces fit together when it comes to retrievels, it isn't a matter of hallucination.

I don't believe the above help is necessary for most spirits. Some, for whatever reason, need extra help. Reminds me of George Ritchie's near death experience. There were spirits in a lower realm who couldn't see George Ritchie, Jesus nor the angels who tried to help them, because they weren't open to seeing a higher level of energy.




hawkeye wrote on Jun 11^th, 2007 at 6:37pm:

Could these images of Jesus durring a retrieval perhaps be the drop off point to F23?