I truly am beginning to *believe* that the Earth system was designed so that people while living, are prevented as best as possible from learning about the nature of the afterlife and non-physical realms. I suspect this information is suppressed to "optimize" the human learning experience and to make physical reality and the roles we play as "serious" as possible.

I will cite two examples and perhaps others can chime in on this topic. First, anybody I come into contact in life, whether it be friends, relatives, or acquaintances, when I tell them what I do while I'm asleep, are just plain incredulous. I offer all of my good evidence that this stuff is more than dreams, including validations of remote viewing and retrievals. Still, they recoil in bewilderment. If it wasn't for the fact that I am a decently successful scientist, I think many of these people would think I'm a nut case. Maybe they do, anyhow...

Recently, I offered someone to go visit them astrally to pick up some piece of information to prove I could visit them. Even if I can prove to this *one* person my prowess as a projector and the reality of what I'm talking about, I still have 6 billion people to go. Exhausting prospect to say the least...

Here's another example. The number of near-death experiences has increased dramatically over the last half decade thanks to modern medical technologies and the ability to revive people who were for all practical purposes dead. The colorful reports of these NDE'ers abound and are growing everyday. The reports are life-affirming and often there is a thread of commonality. Meanwhile, many scientists, skeptics, and even religious scholars, like some gatekeepers to the greater reality are all too quick to come up with possible alternative explanations for NDE's such as "delusions" or "temptations from the devil."  The image I get in my head is putting Saran wrap on an open can of tomato sauce.

What's going on here? Is there a Terms of Service clause that we sign before we start life, that says
a) You will forget your soul-like nature,
b) You will keep to yourself, in the off chance you do remember, and
c) If you make a fuss about this, you're going to be essentially outcasted from society?

-mike

Yes, that is my impression also, that this is definitely a rigged
game.  I have it listed as great cosmic dilemma #2.

I don't know how many times I have read NDE stories in which it was
explained that "you will not remember some of this when you
return". Or, stories of returnees wishing that they could remember
more than they did, but some of it had faded or was not available.

Or, there was one story of a person going up the tunnel and having
huge loads of information downloaded into her during her trip up,
until she protested, stop, I can't take any more of this. The
missing information that was taken away, for her Earth trip, was
being restored. This was being dumped into her on the presumption
that she was going to heaven to stay, but when she arrived, it was
decided that she was not going to stay, so some of the information
was then deleted again, for the trip back to earth.

I have heard the entity who does the deleting referred to as
"the angel of forgetfulness". But this activity is one of the
things that shows me that there is a spiritual authority present in
the afterlife, someone is in charge. Like if God actually exists and
does anything, this is one of the things he or some authority
system does: erase the memories of new arrivals. There are definitely
rules present. And someone, maybe a panel of judges, decides that a
soul must return and finish a job, an assignment.

It reminds me of doing lab work when I was taking the course in
Physics. That is not research. You are repeating what was done long
ago for the exercise of going through a scientific procedure to
get a result. It also reminds me of the contests in engineering
school to build something like a robot out of a limited list of
materials. Each competing team must use what is available in some
way to perform some task. Like, when you come to Earth, you must
use what is available here to do whatever.

I have also heard it argued that erasing memories enhances the new
life by enabling a fresh start. Like, first love can happen anew
as a thrilling experience without the memories of failed loves in
previous lives. But somehow we benefit from some of what we
learned, that comes up from the unconscious, ways of coping and
understanding from before. This is a rather intricate thing, like
what is instinctive knowing anyway? And how much previous
understanding is supposed to be available? If some is denied, how
much is permitted?

Sometimes the previous knowledge is not deleted, and you can then
get a musical genius like Mozart. Or a person who remembers a life
on another planet. I know of a case like that.

Mendel, perhaps it could be argued that you are breaking the rules
by getting access where access is denied. But I don't think it is
that strict. There have always been a few mystics who seemed to be
allowed access, and could get to secret knowledge, oracles that
people could consult. I have even wondered if this too might have
been part of the game, but it does not seem particularly organized.
Some can and some cant get to the higher levels. I know people who
do have access, like you, linn, and a list of others.

I have heard it argued that if we could remember our purpose, then
this would interfere with our carrying it out, somehow. That it was
part of the game that the person was supposed to go through a lot
of life and life exercises on the way to carrying out that purpose,
not merely do some task and then return.

This has always struck me as an imperfect process. Like, what are
the rules if any about access? And how much is permitted? What
secret information would be beneficial to the overall plan, and
what would not be beneficial? Who decides that? And what is the
overall plan anyway? It all seems very approximate, haphazard.
Like an experimental game, to try for some effect: lets see what
happens if we mix it all up together. Lets see what lessons might
come out of it.

(Incidentally great dilemma #1 is why do they preach love in
heaven, but do not practice it in the design of Earth, with all its
germs, viruses, and horrible creatures, and indifference to the
suffering of man or beast. That is for a later post.)

Alright...

I haven't read every sentence.


But... if it's a "rigged" game... who'dya think rigged it?

Who?

y'all bring up important questions that i'm gonna sleep on (right now)

your ?'s strike a meaningful chord...

I'm 1/2 asleep now...

gonna bring it all the way into deep sleep..

(I might just find a personal answer)

Your voices are important to me.

Thanks,
             Tim F.

I don't think any knowledge is meant to be suppressed (or hidden) it is only depressed feelings which suppresses  knowledge.

All it takes (to remember) is believing ... with positive feeling!

Now that sounds like a song doesn't it - Spooky could compose a number for us here!

Lots of love to all.

:)

I still hold to my "Outward Bound" theory...that this life is like the Outward Bound courses that were so popular for a while.  A bunch of city kids get dumped in the wilderness for overnight with three matches, or have to sail a ship, or rappel down a mountain, or whatever.  They get banged up, once in a while someone manages to get themselves killed, and it scares most of them spitless.  Technically their memories aren't erased, but since they're asked to do things they have no previous knowledge of, it's similar.

People signed up for that stuff in droves - it was a "learning experience", and "maturing", etc.  I think life on earth is like that - when you can see the big picture, a soul life of thousands of years, or eternity, sixty or seventy years of misery is like a weekend getting blisters and poison ivy on an Outward Bound expedition.  The relative time that you're miserable is minimal, and you learn a lot.  People paid a fair bit of money to send their kids on those trips, knowing that they might have a rough time, because in the long run it would be good for them.  I can see even the most benevolent of beings/gods doing the same with us, knowing that the outcome would be good, and that, relatively, it's a short time.

I like the saying that we don't access to all the knowledge or we choose to forget in order to 'not spoil the movie'  :)

I think of the movie metaphor when I'm watching a movie and you know something is going to happen to a character whether it be positive or negative but the character doesn't know and they don't acknowledge that they are in a movie or are being watched. Of course its just acting and fictional but its an interesting way of thinking about it. Maybe the spirits that are around us, guiding us and watching us feel the same kind of situation. With their timeless perception in a realm where there's no linear time they would know what is going to happen to people based on the actions they make but most do not believe we can communicate with them or aren't even aware of the idea.

The other suppression of afterlife knowledge is the suppression of the scientific studies of paranormal phenomena and the many forms of convincing evidence i.e. Remote Viewing, Direct Voice and Materialisation Mediumship and many other forms. They aren't taken seriously by most hard nosed scientists because they contradict the current materialistic mechanistic paradigm that prevails in most areas of so called 'science'. It also makes me wonder, If I may take the liberty of asserting my beliefs on them may I ask why would they choose to not so much forget as to absolutely deny their soul nature?  :-/

On a side note I've ordered some of Bruce's books and CD's the home study pack and I'm really looking forward to learning how to do what many of you have been doing. Despite my great interest in the afterlife subject I'm just getting towards the whole lets try to astral travel and things like that. Any advice for a newcomer?

There is No Death and there are no dead

Never Say Die  8-)

Hi Mendel, first, its good to see you here again. I have always felt close to you, if feelings count for anything around here :)

I will need to read every word from everybody here but its early and while my thoughts are this fresh I'll jot them down and return later..I'm sure we all have part of the answers part of the time, but not all the answers all of the time.

I spent about 10 years or so thinking about the meaning of the holocaust. book after book, personal story after personal story I scrutinized all the while thinking I had an obsession going on that I felt uneasy about just reading the holocaust. must have read 100 books. I was searching how a whole people could march asleep into their deaths.
I put myself among them and pictured myself there. another life? if we are all one, and this body is not the totality of what I am, where I have been and what I am to become, then it's not hard to picture oneself with a group of people who were in essense sacrificial lambs on the alter of life.

what I discovered is the Jewish people were martyrs. they were sacrificing themselves, and they had to be asleep to the machine which grinded up their lives, or they would not be this sacrificial lamb. They came to show mankind is capable of being brutal, the opposite of what god is. No one would willingly march into death and so they were conned insofar as their C1 awareness, which is vastly different from higher self consciousness which holds all the answers. this may be why the bible says they were chosen ones, but in another sense we all are chosen ones, to evolve ourselves into love, into one for all, and all for one, Oneness and self responsibility.
It was a path to learn courage most of all, and a few awoke to courage and joined the resistance ranks. think you not the learning of courage is a valid life mission?
It is only in the high drama of survival that true courage can be born. Elie Weiss (spelling?) gave me some of the best answers.
As a cloud of oneness the Jewish race once more descended upon the planet after being wiped out, children thrown into the ovens alive, think you that we could ever have heaven on Earth when such a thing is allowed?
they came back as a cloud of beings, dispersed themselves back into life after having earned the right to be born again. some would remember, some would not. What Weiss said struck me hard: he said: a chant was taken up by the Jews "NEVER AGAIN!"

They had returned. they would not allow this to happen again. They demonstrated as these sacrificial lamb journey, to the whole world, to be put in the history books for all to see, what man is capable of when man has no god, but worships instead the genetics, the body, the dna, the "white race supremacy." A lie it is as big as Texas.

When Weiss said that, my obsession was over with the holocaust. my heart rested easily. he had captured the truth in two words for me. Never again. He had spoken for god. he had told me everything I needed to know.
We are not to single out the Germans as the fault. They were asleep also. They suffered to know that they slept to the truth also. the point is as One, individuals are made up of the One. We are all responsible for what we each believe, and the order to kill stems from a belief system. Each are responsible to not be taken in by a voice of authority, of charisma, of "save the world, from this or that threat."

No, there's no set up here to prevent us from doing anything. We have only to get in touch with higher thought and the value of loving each other the same way you love yourself. This was even taught by a Jewish man himself a martyr.
we've got to get back to the premise we are one with our creator, as co-creators. the simplicity of it alludes us all.

now that I got that off my chest, I'll read you guys, and thanks for this topic, a good one!

hi back again (loaded topic!)

Mendel said: Recently, I offered someone to go visit them astrally to pick up some piece of information to prove I could visit them. Even if I can prove to this *one* person my prowess as a projector and the reality of what I'm talking about, I still have 6 billion people to go. Exhausting prospect to say the least..
___
heres an image of Mike: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/spiritvideo/Alysia/myspace%20graphics/worldOnBack.jpg relax a little, you are not doing this alone. if we all were at the same level of understanding, we'd all be a bunch of clones with no reason to help each other..
you're looking for miracles: definition of a miracle performed: Miracles are performed by those who temporarily have more for those who temporarily have less.

each time you do a retrieval, in essence, it is a miracle to their eyes to be believing.
another thought: sometimes you give your gift and it is not received.
JC said "Your faith has made you whole."
One cannot give a gift, and expect a return, or its not a gift in truth if something is expected of the other.

gotta go  read the rest of what you started up here Mike! :)

 "Is afterlife knowledge purposefully suppressed?"

 No and yes.  

This is a huge question, with a potentially long, and somewhat complex answer i think.  Heck, i think one could write a small book alone just on this one question.  

 I find it helpful always to look at what some call "First Cause" causes.   And to really think about what matter and physicality means in relation to both Soul and Spirit.  

Where did it come from, and why did it manifest to begin with?  Reasoning first from the perspective of Spirit, then to Soul.

 The deeper you delve into these most fundamental questions, the more you will understand both the above question and the answer to same.    The problem is, is that there are different layers to this, of which you can answer from a Spirit perspective, a Soul perspective, and a material perspective.  

 Materially there are those who have much power and greed always for more, who would keep his fellow brothers and sisters down and ignorant.  A percentage of these have some awareness of the nonphysical, but only enough to be "knowledable" and not "wise".   They use this awareness to foster separation and chaos, to gain more material power over others.

 Same old Atlantis shite again and its on a much bigger and controled scale than most would even want to consider.  Cayce's source of info called these the Sons and Daughters of Belial.   Somewhat relating to this, i just read of a millionare couple living in posh New York New York area, who were recently arrested for keeping domestic slaves.  They forced these women to live on mats on the floor, controlled most every aspect of their lives, gave them only 100 dollars a month for their constant work, and regulary subjected them to physical (and probably other abuses) such as cigarette burns, bruises, gashes, etc.   Such are the Sons and Daughters of Belial--cruel, power and money hungry, and ego centered beyond what most folks could or would even want to imagine.

 But matter itself, by its very inherent nature and influence tends to shut down the awareness of the nonphysical, and of the importance and supreme power/inclusiveness of love.   It's not so much spiritual Elders manipulating things, though there are contracts with more aware Souls to shut down a certain amount of awareness and energy level to maximize some experiences until a certain amount of peak and consistent awareness is re-reached while in-physical.  

Yet most Souls don't need such contracts because their Soul awareness and energy levels are such that they become easily influenced by the energy of matter.   Much like in astrology, most people let themselves be controled by their "stars" rather than controlling them.   A certain amount of this has to do with innate spiritual development when a Soul incarnates.

   How far down the rabbit hole do you want to go?   Many layers.  

Hi Mendel-
Some frightened souls fail to release their attachments and remain semi-earthbound as they reincarnate. They very often have spiritual sensitivity, perhaps are aware of spirits around them, and often their past lives bleed through in the form of dreams or fears etc.  

Personally, I think that it is a blessing to not be forced to remember acutely how badly we messed up in the past. I would think that recollection of life as eg. Stalin or Hitler would be overwhelming. It would be quite sufficient to have to deal with the mind set that created their purges (and remains as samskaras) without having to actually look at all the millions of suffering souls - although that probably occurs at death anyway. Ugh!

dave

Well, our conscious minds are our physical bodies, and this is a dimension of conscious energy. So, naturally, everything in this dimension would be geared to earth ways - survival, territory, land, fighting, etc. It's really all the conscious mind is geared to: 'logical' things and nature. So, if our earthly minds hear about the afterlife, naturally we would be skeptical.

As for your friends, do not worry about them. They probably do not know what to believe about your experiences and astral projections, because likely they don't even know what an astral projection is. It can be extremely frustrating, I know, to tell your friends about these experiences, because they either give an entirely different explanation for what we know is true, or have never even heard about the subject. Sometimes it's best to keep these experiences to yourself. I consider the experiences such as astral projections, gifts from God anyway, just for me, not for anyone else at the time.

Good luck.

Doing a take on Elite's thought here, I think of astral flyers like night flyers..the mind soars out into other areas of thought and symbol. Since it's a realm under study we're pioneer type spirits. think of the pioneers who forged a trail to California physically. There was no roads bult. It was bumpy. People dropped like flies, in their 20's and 30's.

it's just part of the game to be getting flack, or opposition to new ideas. Mike has always been the greatest night flyer, so he will probably get the greatest opposition. love, alysia

Hey Everyone,

Thanks for all of your replies!

Alysia: Thanks for your kind words.

-mike

sure Mike, no prob, hey, you should put another link to your website here, as it's got a lot of information that newbies might want to check out. I'm serious. love, alysia

Alysia,

As you know I post nearly all of my experiences online.
The problem is that these stories often involve some more advanced topics (like time travel, astral dynamics, psychic experiments, retrievals using portals, playing spirit guide, and travelling to higher planes). Also the text is unedited as I try to write it down as quickly as possible before I go off to work in the morning.
My site sorely needs a better explanation of things, big and small. That's going to be
one of my projects for the next few months. Then my site will be one worth checking out.

www.mysticalexplorer.com

-mike

I see you changed your website since the last time I was there Mike. it looks very efficient somehow! well thanks for the link and i might suggest once more any serious explorers to bookmark Mike's website to purvey. I've been knowing Mike many years.

for some reason, I find these other lightworkers, explorers, whatever we are, pioneers, and for some reason they are all recognizable by a certain amount of humbleness coming across, mixed in with a strong sense of adventure.
Most of them are reticent to speak at length of their experiences, and exactly what is the extent of their knowns. This is my reluctance also although I seem to be dropping off my humbleness in favor of the adventure aspect and the desire to reach others and give away whatever I've picked up which I think others would find beneficial. It may because of the speed up in time I am perceiving the speed up in my nature.

well, we know it can always be bigger, better, and more well organized, yet thanks for the link Mike. I am collecting links as a matter of fact! so you're not alone.

love, alysia

Hello everyone, I have a few points to add and/or reiterate to this discussion:

    I personally do not believe that the Earth-System was intentionally designed to "supress" information pertaining to the afterlife.  However, it is obvious to me that the realms of existense are purposely "separated" from day-to-day physical-based senses to facilitate the development of people - ultimitately on a spiritual level.  

    I believe ignorance of "the beyond" can be attributed primarly to people getting immersed / caught-up in the world.  Speaking on a personal level, there are often days at work which are so busy that once the day is complete and I can finally relax, I think to myself: where was I the entire day?  That is, I am fully immersed and absorbed with the tasks at hand, that reflectively, I feel as if I shift into a different mode of consciousness - and that consciousness is perhaps the consciousness of most of the world.  Consider this, if a person works 5 days a week, 8 hours a day and has a family, has bills to pay, has meals to cook, has a car he/she wants to buy, etc then his/her mode of consiousness is almost continually absorption/immersion-consciousness.  The contrast of total relaxation-consciousness may never be realized by that example-person above.  And relaxation-consciousness is where outerworld matters come into play, where tolerance is realized, where emotions are stabilized.  And then there is the ego and emotions which can also blind people from a broader-perspective.  And these things tend to perpetuate themselves and get bigger as people go through life and many people are not able to thusly break outside of these constraints.

    With regards to the matter of explaining spiritual-matters to people, I suggest not investing too much of oneself into such a venture - I have learned there is no point.  Ultimately, it comes down to point of view, and many people have opinions (albeit sometimes narrowminded) and are quick to comment on matters that they do not know and perhaps care not to know anything about.  Ponder this, however: what is it that drives people to tell others about personal experiences, about what happened in a person's day, etc?  I believe eventually such acts take away something from an individual.  Be reserved about such things, explore, learn and grow and when you are old and wise approach explaining spiritual matters to people (if you so choose to do so) from a more wisened perspective.    

Mattimo wrote on Jun 4^th, 2007 at 11:02pm:

With regards to the matter of explaining spiritual-matters to people, I suggest not investing too much of oneself into such a venture - I have learned there is no point.  Ultimately, it comes down to point of view, and many people have opinions (albeit sometimes narrowminded) and are quick to comment on matters that they do not know and perhaps care not to know anything about.  Ponder this, however: what is it that drives people to tell others about personal experiences, about what happened in a person's day, etc?  I believe eventually such acts take away something from an individual.  Be reserved about such things, explore, learn and grow and when you are old and wise approach explaining spiritual matters to people (if you so choose to do so) from a more wisened perspective.

  Hmm, well i sort of understand the above perspective, but i would add a very important clause--one size does not fit all in such matters.  Some folks because of their specific, unique, individual karma, would do well to become more active and expressive in such matters.  Perhaps these have an overbalance in their lifetimes of too much reserve, passiveness, or what not.  Some perhaps came in this life to be much more communicative, expressive and/or extroverted for example.   You never know, unless you really do know...and there are very, very few incarnate who can see into people that well and deeply, especially consistently speaking.

 Others would do well to incoperate more of the former, reticence, more passiveness, etc..  Again, one shouldn't judge or give specific advice unless they know the full Soul history, probabilities, etc. of said others involved, such as the Elders do.  
 Meanwhile, generally speaking, it is much less destructive (for the collective and/or the individual) on average for people to speak, teach, explain, or preach generally on general spiritual subjects or collective issues.   It generally is much less constructive to give individual folks specific spiritual, moral, etc. advice (unless you fall under the above category such as Elders do, or you are a spiritually assigned guide to that person).
Folks with the former tendencies, i sometimes think of as "preachers", and the latter i think of as false gurus.  A preacher type is always much safer and less harmful than the false guru type.  Course very few are purely one or the other, and most of us have our moments of both in my experience.

 In any case, what does it profit any person to be so sirius?   I can't help but remember that a lot of "wise" old men wanted young Yeshua to shut his mouth, stop explaining, etc, and yet he continued to be very active in that for the most part.

Indeed, I agree AhSoLaoTsuAhhOmmra in that, quote:  "one size does not fit all."  I was speaking more from my own personal experience.  Elaborating more completely, I meant to say that, the more time an individual has spent delving into spiritual matters, contemplation and reflection, the better that individual is able to communicate about such matters to other people - sort of.  I believe that when an individual is "spiritually accomplished" it isn't even a question of communicating spiritual matters to other people per se as it is to saying or doing things that lead people to that path, seemingly of their own volition.  Take for example, the Zen master who says a witty phrase to his student and upon pondering it, the student awakens to enlightenment.  That, perhaps, was a lofty example, but the principle is still the same.  I have learned that it is crucial to let people arrive at an idea or conclusion on their own, and in that way they are not just able to understand the topic at hand but are able to truly realize or grasp it.  More to the point, because spirituality is often equated with quackery in society, it may be important to step away from anything that connotes that topic too strongly.  

I think Mattimo has made very good comments,


Quote:

However, it is obvious to me that the realms of existense are purposely "separated" from day-to-day physical-based senses to facilitate the development of people - ultimitately on a spiritual level.

I was going to post this under my Venus topic or maybe the Gaia topic but it fits here just as well and basically what I would like to say is; I think it's very important to keep a balance in life - as the above quote says - ultimately we are, in our physical-based senses operating on a spiritual level.  Spiritual awakening, as Mattimo says, is a unique and individual process almost as a flower opening when the time is right.  At the same time keeping a firm grip on the ground.

I believe it is very important to keep practical logical thinking without (basically) loosing ones mind.  Not only for individual sanity but also for society's health and economical well being.

Talking about the afterlife comes with responsibility and as Mattimo rightly said spirituality is often equated with quackery (even dementia) and for this it is important for people to keep a logical perspective and even more importantly live a happy and healthy life.  We do live our spirituality naturally in our every day chores and responsibilities.  

I do think the regular members here are level headed and for this it is a wonderful site.
Your post is greatly appreciated Mattimo, thank you.  
Caryn

As far as when to share your knowledge with others...
It also depends on the receiver. For example, people who
come to this site, looking for answers, were probably led
in part by their higher natures, so that seems pretty clear cut.

Also, if you encounter someone who has passed on while exploring the
afterlife, i.e. a retrieval, a few quick words might be in order. I once
encountered a skeptic out There - I couldn't talk quick enough to
explain why he should still be around, despite his understanding
of the laws of physics.

I think the reason that I have slowly warmed up to going up to friends and family
about my adventures, is that I'm so proud of my achievements and want to
share them. So it's an ego thing! It's a shame to have to hold something inside like to that to the
people you know best in life.

-mike

Mendel said: It's a shame to have to hold something inside like to that to the
people you know best in life.
___

it's so hard to express to our loved ones. When my mother was alive, I thought I would be able to share about retrievals, or about how I gained a willingness to not commit suicide, yes, I did, I wanted to leave this world, but then after the guiding spirit of the book told me I was very loved, I did want to live. I thought I could share retrievals with mother and tried, but she just looked at me funny :-/  she had had contact with a spirit or two, friends of hers actually wiggled her toes. she was a little psychic. She tried to read ACIM for my sake but didn't get that far. she and I were very different in reading material we liked.
she loved to read romance/adventure novels. she didn't have a clue what I was doing, but she understood I was not the sort to grieve at anyone's transition, rather, I knew there was no absolute parting upon death. she knew this too, but going out of body was not her specialty, nor did she care to alleviate another's suffering.
her meditation periods consisted of a furrowed brow while sitting on her bed, or a disgruntled look at me as she passed me while I sat at the puter, one of those new fangled contraptions she wouldn't touch! :D

yet she had a light around her head. she was lovely in her own way. we expect our family to understand us, but maybe these that are family are the very ones who need to be around us, because of our difference perspectives?
for one thing she knew, she knew enough to find me out there upon transition. She knew love and relationships and forgiveness were the only values out there to access, but she knew this instinctually, to find me, then I retrieved her to the next level, what I couldn't do while she was physical, I could do, or share, when she was passed on.

actually Mike, I just built her a place. I had to go get guides to take her on. I seem to be very efficient to go get the guides assistance rather than take someone there by myself. but she needed the place, to be waiting in, until they could get there. So I would offer that when the time is right, focus 27 might be the place we all end up in, seems to be more opportunities there, but the person has to be ready.
my mother was wandering in the astral, but hey! love helps us find each other; she found me somehow and definetely by so doing, she benefitted tremendously as well it did my heart good to see her needing me at last for something I could do.
whoops, didn't mean to get so wordy.

well, if u get the notion Mike, I'd be pleased to read any retrievals you feel are unusual or especially enlightening, maybe in the retrieval thread. at least we understand each other!

and also I find people don't start thinking about whats on the other side in general until they encounter a death in the family, or get much older. yet even my mother at age 83 used to tell me she would fight death tooth and nail to the end. which she did. just her nature. well, its nice to have this board anyway, maybe things will change a bit later on, we can be more open.
love, alysia

Mattimo said:  I have learned that it is crucial to let people arrive at an idea or conclusion on their own, and in that way they are not just able to understand the topic at hand but are able to truly realize or grasp it.  More to the point, because spirituality is often equated with quackery in society, it may be important to step away from anything that connotes that topic too strongly.  
___

exactly Mattimo.  in reference to the above, I found a lot of enthusiasm without the proper language reduced my self image in my daughter's eyes to fluffy and cute! :-X

I once tried to tell her about retrievals; she was driving us somewhere and had to ask me to be quiet so she could concentrate on driving!! haha! overload I gave her I guess.

so just to shut her and I both up, so we could concentrate on our relationship and shopping adventure, I said "whassamatter witchew?" Never seen an angel in training? ;D

insofar as spirituality being equated with quakery, I believe that is a defense mechanism that operates to not  overload our C1, like my daughter asking me to not share so much all at once, with my discoveries. I would have to find an opening as the openings appear and listen for those openings to share from wherever they stood on their path.
what it entails with her, and with the other child I have, is to accept they are at a different phase in their growth than I and we won't necessarily meet in the same place, but I can share bits and pieces of this and that, usually it's my behavior that tells more a story than my mouth! :)

spirituality emanates from the body. I'm never sick so my daughter looks more at this wellness than she does my obes, then she resolves she wants to have this wellness also when she attains my age.  so small leaps is good too, if she does stay well.
love, alysia

This is how I began my book (unpublished)

What a paradox we live in.  We agree to come back without our remembrance in tact, and for the rest of our human lives we struggle to remember.

Carol Ann

Yes, Carol Ann, that is why I list it as major dilemma #2.

Nevertheless, I think that the struggle to penetrate the barrier is a
worthwhile occupation, because otherwise we will be stuck with
primitive religions with ideas that don't work. Once we have found out
what we are now finding out,  it will be in the books for future
generations, and the quality of life can be improved here accordingly.

The process of building knowledge through investigation and analysis
now becomes one of the exercises we are to perform while we are
here. It is part of the course we take in coming here. In this way we get personal first hand experience with the process of knowledge formation, and we can see how this goes: the process of discarding some earlier ideas, and building new ideas.

identcat wrote on Jun 7^th, 2007 at 12:36am:

This is how I began my book (unpublished) What a paradox we live in.  We agree to come back without our remembrance in tact, and for the rest of our human lives we struggle to remember. Carol Ann

Hi Carol! glad to see your face again. I'm hoping the struggle gets smoother for all of us in the days ahead. looking forward to hearing more from you. love, alysia

Boris,

Your latest comment, which resonates with my technical side, singlehandedly re-affirms my quest. Thanks!

-mike

Ditto Boris, your comments are getting refreshing lately :)

Carole, really glad you're writing a book. I know of a place that will publish it no cost to you if you want to email me for info.

love, alysia

Hi Mike and the rest of you guys,

What if all of this is happening just the way it’s supposed to?

Here I am sitting in my study on a lazy Sunday afternoon with the world under my fingertips.  Checking in on my friends at the ALK site who come from all over the world. I could take a trip over to the NDE site and add my tale to the many that are already there. Again were talking about contributors from all over the world who are remembering things that happened to them during their coma in the non-physical world/s. Or perhaps I could just pick up another book on accessing altered consciousness to remember afterlife knowledge or listen to the stories of those I meet at work.

What I’m trying to say is that, we live in strange times where we could be hitting the critical mass that “lift’s the veil of forgetfulness”? I don’t know but what I do know is that it appears to me that more and more individuals are talking, questioning, and taking action to get a better understanding of what’s going on in regards to the stuff Mike’s talking about.

I’m also hoping that we are on the cusp of understanding that some of those alleged delusions and hallucinations don’t all come from brain chemicals and that some of the mentally ill would benefit much better with a little support to work with the voices that are harmful by letting them know that they are real individuals voices and need to be dealt with accordingly rather suppressing them chemically which only leaves the receiver more vulnerable in the long run. If there’s one thing I learned about taking prescribed drugs, it’s that you can’t always count on having a steady supply.  Now that I think about it, it’s probably that way with illegal drugs too.

So back to, what if we’re all going to start remembering due to those of us who dabble in want to learn to navigate non-physical reality that we’ve merely forgotten about? Huh?

Has there ever been a time in the history of  the world that so many individuals are educated to the point where they not only can communicate by internet but also learn remote viewing, obeing, dream travel, altering consciousness, just by merely reading a book or listening to a tape.

Keep up the good work, as you can see we have a job to do. That job includes supporting each other, sharing information and experiences, and most of all continuing to love each other.

Love, Jean :-*

The going is going to be extremely slow to get others to jump the band-wagon.
The thing that irks me the most is that with the growing mountain of evidence supporting the afterlife people just don't care.

I have tried to explain to friends and family members (ultra religious)and have given them papers of the over 50 pieces of hardcore evidence supporting life-after death. Doesn't help.

We live in a world brainwashed from birth to be religious. It is going to be hard HARD to break through that barrier. Do I consider them stupid? Yep not gonna lie.

I go back to college January lets hope I don't have an evangelical roommate (for his sake)

Quote Ra.:
"The thing that irks me the most is that with the growing mountain of evidence supporting the afterlife people just don't care."
Yes Ra., and the hardest is when scientists show this ignorance, and instead of accepting that consciousness isn't just the body, they come up with very silly theories about NDEs. This is a really worrying thing, when people considered as the mind-elite behave that way. They show up in every "neutral" tv report, telling always the same crap. So, you really start to think of suppression; I only wonder if the public should be brainwashed, or if those scientist are already brainwashed.

I admire science, therefore it hurts double.

Spooky

Yeah I completely agree with you spooky.

I am in Mensa and mensa is supposed to be the top 2% but yet when I even bring up the discussion of life after death I am shot down instantly. So much so that I don't even talk anymore : (

The scientists are looking more and more stupid everytime they bring up stupid responses to pieces of evidence concerning the afterlife. Everytime we get a new piece of evidence they something more ignorant than the last guy.

I am starting to believe this one guy I used to talk to. He said that skeptics against the afterlife really don't care about evidence. They will never believe in the afterlife because they "consider" it impossible.

Should these people really be scientists Spooky?

P.S I want to puke while typing this

Quote Ra: "Should these people really be scientists Spooky?"

Well, at least they do not fit in my image of how a scientist should be, because they shouldn't distort science with their personal beliefs and narrowed views. So, from this, they shouldn't, but it's the same like when someone complains about democracy, it surely isn't perfect, and possibly the world is going south even when all countries are democracies, but is there something better? Of course, a true aristocracy, meaning the truely best are ruling, would be best, but who should decide who is one of the best and who is not? Same with scientists, who gets a scientific diploma/degree/title is up to the society, and it's up to the media to decide whom to invite to make a good "expert". So, we have to wait for a slow mass change of minds or hope for some magic world changes.

Spooky

Magic FTW!!!
;D :D ;) ;D :D ;)

Hey guys I agree with what you are saying. In a nutshell its about the materialist scientists maintaining their power base. Even if they personally think there is something to it, they are too scared to commit funding to research on a notion that their cherished personal beliefs consider 'impossible'. Purely in financial terms its extremely difficult to change the situation and therein lies the problem in itself. We live in a world that is driven by $$$ and the presiding philosophy is a materialist mechanistic worldview that denies the existence of non physical realms and the 'science' of the day hypothesises that consciousness is limited to the brain. Despite the body of evidence from many exceptional alternative scientists to the contrary, the majority of young researchers continue to grow up in this materialist tradition that is taught in all schools and universities.

I once again point to the 'Campaign for Philosophical Freedom' in the UK. A pretty clear illustration of what you're all discussing. The evidence exists but the balance of power is so clearly in favour of the materialist scientists and the life after death industry is led by the monotheistic religions.

http://www.cfpf.org.uk/

spooky2 wrote on Jun 14^th, 2007 at 5:55pm:

Quote Ra: "Should these people really be scientists Spooky?" So, we have to wait for a slow mass change of minds or hope for some magic world changes. Spooky

I'm hoping that we'll have a mass awakening of consciousness sometime around 2012  :P

Ra. wrote on Jun 14^th, 2007 at 10:19am:

Yeah I completely agree with you spooky. I am in Mensa and mensa is supposed to be the top 2% but yet when I even bring up the discussion of life after death I am shot down instantly. So much so that I don't even talk anymore : (

I had a similar occurance recently where I talked to my mom about astral projection which she immediately deemed as impossible but asked if I had tried prayer (My mom is Jewish.) Just today I asked my dad about how a Hemi Sync tape works and when he asked me to explain it, I told him that it is a tape that essentially plays one tone in one ear and a different tone in the other to assist in reaching different levels of consciousness. His response was that avoiding organized religion often results in people "falling for these things." Despite that statement, I don't think my dad has a religion. He never talks about it although I have seen some books on zen in his bookcase. He did tell me that meditation can work if I think only of my breathing and focus solely on that until I can think of nothing else but that the idea that I will be flying around out of my body if I meditate is pushing it too far. I have become interested in this sort of thing recently. Bruce's articles that I have read were fascinating to me.

How can you prove your own experiences?

The answers is you can't prove anything. but you can know.

Its so simple really, trust yourself to find the truth.

Some people believe you 'live your own truth'. That's why I bore of hearing so called skeptics and debunkers putting forward their 'rational' explanations for things like NDE's. I myself haven't had one but they I'm sure they are profound experiences and maybe what they mean to the person is what's important rather than the mechanics of how the experience occured or proof for the afterlife.

Good point, Never!

When I started seeking out these experiences, that's what I focussed on, that the experience was worth it, regardless. Then as the experiences continued I realized that they just kept unfolding more and more information about a whole 'universe' of spiritual existence out there. So now I seek to have them for what they show about the whole spectrum of life beyond the physical.

That's why I hope all of us will get involved in this, for no matter what you go in looking for, you're sure to find more than you ever dreamed possible!
Thanks for the reminder! :)
Bets

good thread :) trust yourself. sometimes hard to do, but sometimes only thing u can do.

we live in a world where man's ego speaks in one ear, god speaks in the other more quietly. one side speaks of a fear thought, one side says teach only love, be only love even as I have loved you.

so what r u going to do? just make decisions as best u can until the voice for love gets louder.  I only speak about these things when spirit tells me to and what to say to whom.

I had miracles happen. if I told the wrong person they took away the good feelings I had about that. I needed someone who would believe me. spirit said only speak when I show you where, not even my daughters can grasp my experiences as well that may be, they have their own plans to work out without me loading them up what their crazy mom is doing flying the night skies. I love them the way they are, where they are, they're the ones who are the most important so I ride their boats and for this they love me back.

yet if I find no one to talk to I don't grow into all I can be. so I have to talk to guides and trust its the way its supposed to be. then slowly u meet one or two people here and there doing what u do..we make a network slowly, hands across the world, we make grid lines in the time line events with our pathways..next set of monkeys born, they already know what we're learning because we paved the way. take heart! thats why we say here, don't get yourself up in a knit, life is too short and sweet for that.

i found this thread when i had been thinking about this question a lot myself

in my opinion, there is no question that afterlife knowledge is purposefully suppressed.  because i would really like all that knowledge and i haven't been given it.  also in books like many lives, many masters, the guides only allow the regressed person to see certain things.  

aside from the guides blocking information, it could be our own soul blocking information from our earthly self.  after all, our soul has much more knowledge, but we all decided to forget about heaven etc. when we came to earth.  

i hate it but that's the way it is..