I found I had to be obsessed to OBE. That's why I'm not trying anymore. Way too much effort. I calculated I spent about 60 hours of meditating over 3 months to have 5-10 mins of OBEs during the 90 day Robert Bruce program. (Not to mention the 20 years of meditating regularly before hand).

Then when you do eventually get out you have 3 minds on the go (the one that stays with the body, the astral copy, and the mercurial dream mind popping into the other 2). Your energy dictates your lucidity & rationality within the OBE & lucid dream states, so my experiences were on a continuum of just lucid, to the jewel in the crown, a full conscious exit, trip & return. Even then it's very quick & a bit surreal. The best thing I've ever done was go to the park and enter a love bliss area. I think it was worthwhile to get the "proof" I needed but on the whole it was not what I was expecting, as it was more simple, more complex & more organic that I surmised. A bit like life I guess.

Another thing I should mention is that during the 90 day program I found I was becoming unbalanced a bit mentally and sexually. I only had to walk innocently past someone & my chakras would triple in energy. Also my thoughts started feeling "real". I think it was my half conscious beliefs & complexes taking on a life of their own. I think the quote that the difference between a mystic & a mad man is that a mystic is swimming while the mad man is drowning is apt.

I'm really glad I did 20 years of meditation before hand. Another thing I had to balance with was The Fear. I guess it's a survival program that has to be hacked through. On the upside I was plugged into the mind of God for weeks on end. Continuous synchronicity plus!!! I don't mean I believe I was, I mean it was "reality" while I was there. Like a veil had been lifted and I could see that everything is truly One, all the time, and everything feeds into & helps everything else.

Just thought I'd share the darker stuff as it may help someone. I guess the increased energy increases the light & dark within us, making mountains out of molehills. It would be alright if you could sit on a mountaintop like the Gurus of old, that would indeed make it easier to balance with intense concentrated energy. It didn't take long to return to 'baseline' after the course though, I guess I just over did it in my obsessive drive to finally experience these things.  Overall it was worth it.

Cheers & Happy Trails

The part where you say the BEST PART was when you went to "park" and experienced the "love-bliss area" ... well , that is my experience too.... but IN MY BODY and hanging out with animals, trees, everything, it's BLISSFUL.  

Amazing thing happened to me a number of years ago, I received this "wonderful feeling of LOVE in my HEART that I received through PRAYER"... and all of a sudden my "direction" changed, ... instead of wanting to LEAVE my BODY to get to "GOD" ..."heaven" whatever, ...... I wanted to come into my body to EXPERIENCE GOD.  I felt GOD LIVED in me, many life-times flashed before me, in huts trying to leave body to go to GOD, in buddist temples, in many places, all trying to LEAVE the BODY!  And always , not getting it, and then trying again , and again, and again, failing, failing, failing.  Then realizing I was going in WRONG DIRECTION!  And NOW I WANT TO BE HERE!  And God is Living in MY BODY as LOVE, PEACE and JOY.  It's amazing!  And if someone hasn't experienced it, when you do, WOW, it will BLOW your socks OFF! :)

And that was just the First AWAKENING for me, in the HEART.  A few years in that state, leads to others, and there is NO Question about the direction to go , once the HEART opens and GOD enters it... and does HIS 'love" thing.

Everything feels a part of "me" ... I move and don't move, can't describe it in words. Not even sure you can, and most times it doesn't even feel "right" to put it into words.  Moving is very fast on other planes, if motive is "right".  The word 'harmony" takes on a new meaning, and magnetic-type energy becomes a "guide" without WORDS.  A DEEP "knowing", without "head" intelligence (which seems like physical -needs  thinker device). Not sure "head" knowing can put it into the BOX.  My head can't! :)

And same as you, when I do a detour, it becomes plain, because I temporarily disconnect from my CENTER, and I cut myself some SLACK, and go back to FEELING WONDERFUL again.  I'm on a path where I can make mistakes and LEARN from them, like you... and "nobody" yells at me in my "head" , for taking a detour. I can't LOSE on this PATH, because, I practice it, breath, by breath by breath, and who cares if I miss a breath or two of not doing it, I'll go right back to doing it again and again and again... unstoppable :)

Welcome Wingrin!  What you experienced is truly amazing.  While it wasn’t exactly what you might of expected is, as you say, a bit like life.  Still you’ve verified a lot of things by achieving a good OBE state and visiting the park and that love bliss area.  Congratulations.

I identify with some of your descriptions and experiences and appreciate your post.  I liked “Your energy dictates your lucidity & rationality,” as that parallels my limited OB experiences.  You certainly have tapped into higher energy levels.  A number of people here have encountered that and mention heightened sexuality.  You seem to have felt off balance from this – which doesn’t surprise me – probably you can address this by concentrating on grounding and balancing.  Others here can give better advice.

With the expanded awareness and consciousness you experience from your meditation, it seems natural that a traditional OBE would seem somewhat dense and awkward.  Yet these are valid experiences as well and a part of our existence.  Are you familiar with the concept of phasing?  While I’m just a beginner, it seems that might be a helpful approach in contrast to sort of forcing the OBE and lucidity.  At times though I think you have to push hard to break through into new areas and experiences.

As you say, overall it was worth it.  The question is where do I go next?  Happy trails indeed!

Rob

I love the line in some book I read many times over years, goes like this.

Love it the way it is.

You have to LOVE everything exactly the way it is before you can raise to HIGHER DIMENSIONS of reality.  

If you go to "higher planes" to escape what is your HERE and NOW, you will keep coming back , until you LEARN to LOVE it the WAY it is.

It took me many years before I experienced what that guy wrote in that book.

Wisdom Lines do have a tendency to "haunt" me until I "GET IT".

My experience of BEING HERE and LOVING HERE, grounded me, and upon that GROUNDING travel had purpose.  

I call my experience's in 20's when I used to ASTRAL Travel SIGHT-seeing! :)

I call my experience NOW ... LOVE BREATHING! :)  ... and can go to those planes at WILL, because LOVE takes me THERE!  Thinking of someone in LOVE takes me there to that person, anywhere they are!  Get it! :)

Without the LOVE motive, what would be the motive?

PEACE! :)

Greetings Wingrin,

Many thanks for sharing! If you continue to read and hopefully post here, you may this is a fine place for stabilizing such experiences with day-to-day life.  :D
I do hope you will stay and try it out.

You said: "Continuous synchronicity plus!!! I don't mean I believe I was, I mean it was "reality" while I was there. Like a veil had been lifted and I could see that everything is truly One, all the time, and everything feeds into & helps everything else.
Just thought I'd share the darker stuff as it may help someone."

Do you consider the continuous synchroncity darker, or do you mean the overwhelming experience of it? Yes, I suppose that would be. I think Rob is right on in suggesting a gentler approach. No need  I hope to throw out a whole realm of experiences to come.  :)

bets

great post Wingrin! I was hoping more adventurous souls who had been to TMI would show up. I've never been there, I am one of the mystics who swim, rather than the mad person who drowns..I like to save drowning persons when possible. sometimes I fail, then later I see I helped a little which makes life worth living.

the 1st chakra is the creative or sexual chakra. in my obes recently I'm learning to bring that energy up into the heart, leaving all the distortions of that belief systems from the collective that there is something about sex that is bad. theres nothing bad about it on the other levels but it does tend to be a little scarey unless the energy is brought also the mental chakras for examination, and of course we are to bring the sex energy into the heart first and foremost. our society is a sexuality belief system society but we are advancing during the shift in consciousness energies we are aided with at this time. Learning from Monroe, I understand the saying "there is no right, there is no wrong."
I note what enters, whether obe or C1, I learn to observe without judgment of self, then I can absorb without injury to my energy body.

reReading Bruce's Voyages into the Afterlife, the 3rd of the series is bring in some clarity now. I like reading something, then several years later re-reading it in light of greater understanding..amazing what I didn't understand back then.

HEY!! I love this thread, I'll be back! its MAMA DAY! haha! my girls are dragging me off for a mud bath...what more could I want? :)

talk soon! love, alysia

Interesting recount of your OBE experiences, Wingrin-

That enhancement of all your chakra energies etc seems to be normal, as many meditators report it in some form. The collective expression is something like "I stirred up kundalini", which is what a Hindu Vedantist might call it. Although we normally operate all our chakras at equal power levels, we also keep the power level low enough that it doesn't make us feel excessively spaced out. When focussing on some mystical event the chakra energies often are increased greatly, and for those unprepared, this can be both surprising and rather uncomfortable, as we seem to lose touch with everyday reality without increasing our groundedness in any other manner. (I found that a cold shower tends to cool things off.)

It appears that you have a natural meditative ability in this area, and perhaps a slightly different approach to meditation would serve you well, allowing a more natural increase in psychic energies from which you could have more comfortably controlled experiences. One option that comes to mind (I don't know why) is "Surat Shabd Yoga", or the yoga of the "cosmic sound current", since it focusses inward.

dave

Hi all, big thanks for your comments.

Thanks for the Yoga suggestion Dave. I started Hatha Yoga last week and felt a lot of clearing & cleansing (I couldn't stop yawning) & the sanskrit chanting before hand was like blissful nectar being poured into my nervous system.

Bets, that dark stuff was refering just to the occasion fear/sex/& mental imbalances. The synchroncity was just like Christmas. I absolutely loved it. This started about 8 years ago after my first acid trip (I've had 2 all up). If you're interested there is a trip report at
http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=25972
I do take it gentle now & it's just a part of my life, which I'm grateful for. I found though that after 20 years of meditation I had only had 1 OBE so I had to go hardcore to get results, so no regrets.

I agree with Richman, love is really powerful. I try to come from a place of love (not always so easy). Incidently, when I went to the Love area in the park I was in a lucid dream & did my OBE exiting exercises. I was rotating my astral body within my dream body, jumped over 2 snakes that came for me (an exit hallucination to stop me, or a symbolic reference to the Caduceus symbol I don't know), and then I was in the Love Baby!!! I would never have left had my 2 young boys in the park not called me down. I was magnetically drawn to them. Maybe that's how prayer or magic works? It's great to know our family and friends are over there (even when their here!)

In response to Rob, yes I'm into phasing, and after my OBEs believe more strongly in what I receive. I often phase and syncronistically will get confirmation immediately from the environment (eg..from the TV next door..it's sound confirming what I'm seeing) or very soon after the mediation. There is definatly a link between our internal & external worlds, but it is a very mysterious link and hard to control. It seems to have it's own agenda, and it travels a winding invisible fashion which is akin to the scent of a flower dispersing into the air.

Thanks again everyone for sharing & listening. Very interesting.

Cheers
Cris

Wingrin said:

" There is definatly a link between our internal & external worlds,
but it is a very mysterious link and hard to control. It seems to have
it's own agenda, and it travels a winding invisible fashion which is akin
to the scent of a flower dispersing into the air. "

Love it, Wingrin,all you've said but especially your description of that elusive link.  Thank you for sharing!

Bets

Some of the other writers discribing OBE use different terms to talk about same thing. And sometimes those "aids" are done by rout and not really, really internalized.  When I say LOVE, PEACE and JOY , it becomes a "trigger" that locks me to "reference point" where I re-experience GOD's LOVE, PEACE and JOY.  But if you don't have a "reference point" linking those words to any "experience you had" ... it just becomes an "empty phase" ... and repeating it or visualizing it doesn't work, or works in half-a*sed way.

Part of "loving it the way it is" ... makes it so I'm very "relaxed" and there is NOTHING TO FIX down here.  Another writer talks about putting everything in "box" ... same thing ... but for him... it was a Trigger image ... that was tied to "reference point".  

It's hard to do this because of resistance , resistance is SOUL gravity.

Many want to go HIGHER, but the "wise" have put out the answers, usually in the first chapter, but others want "information,information,information" ... or "head-candy".  

Mantra, was just a phase that was repeated over and over and over , that was supposed to have "reference experience" tied to it.

When I say the word "GOD" it is tied to my "EXPERIENCE of GOD" ... and that one word ... reminds me of that "experience of GOD".  

Just saying the word GOD, GOD, GOD, having a formed based concept, will not liberate.  Repeating words that are tied to "HIGHER EMOTIONAL VIBRATATIONAL" feeling states will, and we place "words" on those experiences, but we all have a different "feeling" sensation when we say "love" or "peace" or "joy".  

It is not something we "DO" , it is something that we ALLOW to FLOW in and out" ... it's an 'allowing" ... not doing (the FATHER doeth the WORK, not I) ... so I ALLOW the ENERGY to flow in and out DOING the WORK.... and because I developed TRUST that GOD was LOVE by experience in HEART.  I TRUST GOD ...loves me and loves everyone, and I mean everyone (demons/angels) everything! :)

PEACE

Richman said: resistance is SOUL gravity

this is good. very good. for the new kid on the block you sure can ring some bells my friend!  you remind me of Bruce :)

Bruce Moen is the administrator here for all you first time readers.

he will talk of feelings, to return to a former exploration, he would instruct to feel the PUL, also theres a toning thing. you take the thought and put it into words; then you take the words and the thought and you put it into a feeling. then you have this feeling which is your energy body, right, and this energy body then produces a "tone" so you send this tone to communicate with.

we all have a unique tone signature. I doubt that our tone changes much over a lifetime. I like to think of my tone as Bb. but just guessing, its not really like the musical scale.
My daughter heard a tone once. I think now I sent it to her. we had this big fight and my heart was breaking from it, but she was a teenager, and you know how rowdy teens get to test a parent. well, she ran in her bedroom and slammed the door. I stood outside because she cried and I was worried I had hurt her. so I placed my head against the door and sent love as fiercely as I could and she came out almost immediately and said she heard a tone which made her feel happy, that everything would be all right! and it was!


toning is not like attitude, but would be to me, like intention setting.

when everything boils down to priorities, in my life, peace of mind is the only value I can see and what you give, you get. PUL is closely associated with peace and joy, has almost nothing to do with intellectual pursuits, unless those pursuits are related to opening the mind to who and what we are and those beliefs which change over time.
[smiley=vrolijk_1.gif]  good thread

Hi all

Laffingrain, I just wanted to share my experiences with tone. I read a yoga book which advocated meditating on the tone you hear in your head. I can't remember the exact notes but initially I was supposed to hear, say Eb (E flat). After a while I heard it distinctly, and being a muso, confirmed on my keyboard that it was in fact Eb.

The Yoga book then said I would hear 2 more being, I think, G & B. Over the weeks I heard G & then B which I confirmed again on the keyboard. Now I had the 3 at the same time. Twice I have heard a low OMMMMM sound (like a jet engine - but not that loud). Once it even turned into Monk Chanting, and I heard a distinct "Congratulations". My dreams at this time also confirmed this when I followed the sound to the "heart of the universe" and had a chat there with a very cool and humourous monk. Make of this what you will.

Just to get back to the Love Bliss energy for a moment. My brother questioned a well known hermit monk in Thailand recently (who is a relation of his wife) and asked if he astral travels to other planets and realms. He said he used to but doesn't bother now. He just goes to the white light of heaven & hangs with the angels. Nice work if you can get it!

I had the thought today, for those of you who read my trip report (with the link being in this thread) that the experiences/ hallucinations I had were really partnered explorations into the astral. I'm not sure which bit was my sub-conscious & which was an independent reality though, or my percieved metaphor version of it, or a mix of the 2. What it does show me though is that humans have the ability to have full on 3D phasing while fully awake. Our mental mechanism has the ability to literally open a portal in front of us in the 'real world' and look into another realm.

I will say that I think certain drugs take us into realms of consciousness far different from the currently mapped out focus levels. For example, the Erowid Vaults list extensive trip reports of DMT users encountering morphing elves! I think I may have even seen one in a group meditation once. I haven't read about elves in the focus levels though.

2 more things I'd like to share. Once during Tantra sex with my wife our root chakras combined and created a ball of energy that we both felt flew off into the universe. Mmmm.

Lastly, my mediation group picked the Lotto numbers on our second go & we won $20 000! Also one of our numbers was only 1 number away from us winning $500 000. I mention these last few things to reiterate my belief that our interal & exteral worlds are linked, but that they are mysteriously linked & also that there is a lot more out their to be discovered. But maybe like the Monk says, why should we waste our time in other "lower" levels when we can be in Nivarna. Maybe we have to be mature enough to be ready. I guess I'm still a spiritual kid with a big curiosity.

Peace & Love
Cris

 Thank you for sharing your experiences and observations with us Wingrin.  I have a feeling a percentage of us can relate to much of what you talked about.  



dave_a_mbs wrote on May 13^th, 2007 at 4:52pm:

Although we normally operate all our chakras at equal power levels, we also keep the power level low enough that it doesn't make us feel excessively spaced out.

 Hi Dave, do you mean equal distribution and amplification of their energy levels, which tends to operate at a lower amplification most of the time?   Or do you mean something else?   I kind of see each different person using different Chakaras at different ratios and balances, between relative levels/degrees of activeness, passiveness, and amplification and in different and unique patterns.   In fact, this unique "tuning" of one's Chakras, seems to be what manifests our own unique individualities.

 As we spiritually grow, there is a rather universal trend though, to step up amplification within the so called higher chakras, or rather its a co-resonation process.


Quote:

When focussing on some mystical event the chakra energies often are increased greatly, and for those unprepared, this can be both surprising and rather uncomfortable, as we seem to lose touch with everyday reality without increasing our groundedness in any other manner. (I found that a cold shower tends to cool things off.)

 Thanks for the tip.   I'm not unfamilar to this stuff in theory or in practice, but for whatever reason i've had a lack of experience with being surrounded in-physical of those of like mind.  But Becky and i recently went to a meet up with a "spiritual" group which had a pretty diverse range of expressions/backgrounds, though a pretty strong "new agey" bent overall.   First time with this particular group, and one of the few overall.

   There was about 11 or 12 people total, and it was interesting.   We both definitely felt a difference in energy resonation there, which was amplified by some factors in my case.   I hadn't eaten any solid food that day before going to that meet up.   I had just had a glass of that OJ and fresh lemon juice mix a couple of hours before--which as i oultined in the off topic thread i started, is rather vitalizing, cleansing, and super alkalizing.

 Boy o boy did that leave me rather open.  Becky and i both walked out with headaches, our Anja Chakras and Pineal glands were being stepped up beyond our norm--working hard and overtime.   I don't think it helped that towards the end i passed around this group a large piece of very indigo colored Azurite which i have also used in meditation (sporadically), and each person held it and felt its energy.   Interestingly though a couple said they had been or were engaged in "crystal" or gemstone work, none of them had seen or felt this particular stone before.

 I think that this had the affect to really amplify that particular energy in the group, and it was hitting us in our third eyes big time.

 So yeah, in that case, we felt a need for grounding and we immediately ate a good amount of food and petted the kittens (we got another btw).   Normally i think "grounding" is over stated and over exaggerated in the New age world, since after all we are focussing in the Earth dimension which is the very dimension of groundedness and has this innate affect.    But i guess the idea is to get a circular flow of energy going, or rather a figure 8 flow going.  But first you have to "raise" (speed up) the energies, which can be uncomfortable sometimes depending on different factors emotionally-mentally, spiritually, or even physically.   Sometimes the Soul and Spirit like it, but the body doesn't, and sometimes the body gets blissed out too.  Dunno, its a complex and relative issue i've come to believe, many factors to take into account.


 

Interesting you hang out with the 'cat" to ground you, I do the same thing, the animals ground me in really nice way.

I think the WEST think the "higher chakras" is the way to go, been hearing that since I was young.  
But most of those people who practice that look "spacie" to me and have that "fake" "false" "ego love" vibe.  I went that way, and other's use to say that about me.... and looking back they were "right", although at time they "seemed wrong" to me! :)

The higher you go in charkas is NOT GOOD unless you Understand the "unconsciousness" contains the "SEED" of SOUL.  And it's not in the upper centers.  If it was those people wouldn't be "EGO-maniac's" , many of these eastern masters that came to this country, were full of b.s.  They would wear their clothes and talk a good game, but in end, B.S.  Not all of them, but most of them.  And "western ego-manic" types ate it up, of course they did, it was like "doing drugs"... getting "high"... YEAH go to HIGH centers, yeah baby, trip out.

You have to go IN before you go OUT ... finish coming IN ... we came here to COME IN , and "beginners" are trying to go OUT before coming in! :)  "HE brought it to the MARKETPLACE"... and not the MOUNTAIN.  MOSES on the MOUNTAIN ... CHRIST in the HEART and in the Marketplace.  And the HEART is not UP ... and the FATHER is not UP and OUT but IN and DEEPER DOWN.  The masses always go in the opposite direction.  

False Grounding is doing "EGO crap" , watching T.V. , gossiping (sharing negative things about anything or anyone) , and scattering energy.  I use to ground myself in EGO, because I felt myself , the feeling I was used to as being "who I thought I was at age 8 or 9 (ego).

My problem with those false "masters" was when they were afraid of being "contaminated" by "demons" or "people that were negative" .  These JOKERS were "condemning" beings that were in darkness, and trying to go "HIGH" so they could be "pure".  GEE, these people in darkness, are our brothers and sisters, and they need to be "loved" and helped, not have "negative" labels placed on them.  

P.S. I do notice I'm placing a "negative" label of JOKER on some of "false" masters, so, I still have work to do myself, LOL, and I am working on the INSIDE to see what I can do to "help" them. :)  (I ran, not walked, when some people many years ago, tried to make me a GURU, I moved away, and they have not seen me since)  GOOD move on my part, but some fall in the GURU trap.  Keeps a person from being the "WHOLE" thing, you got to "fit into some IMAGE, others make of you. Same as Rock Stars, or Movie stars, an IMAGE.  We are all the same, and GOD is very, very, cool and very, very, HUMBLE, believe it or not, and HE is the PERFECT GENTLEPERSON.  THE FATHER doeth the work, and very quietly and unseen.  Generally! :)

  Hi there Richman, interesting post.   I couldn't agree more with some of the things you said.   One of the things i disagree with (not with you, but in general), but don't try to concentrate on, especially in the New age world/community is the tendency for people to try to spend most of their time with those who are like minded and into the same stuff as they.  

Sure, it feels good to be with those on a similar wavelength, and its not very challenging, but to me its much more rewarding though sometimes a bit more challenging to be an energy transformer (though its not really us, but the Spirit or Father within us).

Much like you wrote in the below:
Quote:

My problem with those false "masters" was when they were afraid of being "contaminated" by "demons" or "people that were negative" .  These JOKERS were "condemning" beings that were in darkness, and trying to go "HIGH" so they could be "pure".  GEE, these people in darkness, are our brothers and sisters, and they need to be "loved" and helped, not have "negative" labels placed on them.

At that meeting i mentioned, there was some complaints about "negative" people, which again i do not agree with, but try to let it flow in and out like water.  

 As for the rest, i sort of see where you are coming from with the Chakras, etc. cause i've tried that perspective.  Actually first i went with the 'higher" chakra perspective thing, then switched over to something like what you talked about, and then have sort of gone back to the original perspective but with more actual understanding of the metaphysics of it.  

 All in all, i've come to believe that the Universe works in really simple ways, on simple laws and princples, and once you understand the key parts, most everything else becomes easy to understand.  

1.  Like attracts and begets like on all energy levels, in all consciousnesses, dimensions, etc.   2. As above, so below.  

3. There are only two states of beingness in this Universe , and one of them is ultimately an illusion because its temporal--yet the interplay between these manifests a amazing spectrum of relative degrees and shades of these two.    These are Source-ness and unSourceness, which you can also call Love and unlove.    One comes from Source and we can be potential channels for same, and the other is a creation or rather a manifesting of our own making and is not of Source originally except in the sense that it came from us and we are of Source.  

 How does this relate to Chakars, to concepts of "higher and lower", etc.    Pretty simple, the more loving and Source like one becomes, the more one opens up as a channel of that, the faster the rate of their vibration gets.  

  Love is all inclusiveness, unity, Oneness, right.   Hence its the most "expanded" state possible, the "Spirit" spectrum of what Bruce calls the One field.   That which speeds up in rate of vibration, automatically "expands" though this is a misnomer since physical space as we understand it doesn't exist.  

 Our Chakras, and our endocrine glands are patterned after this Universal truth of vibration.  It's in a represenational image in our body, because that's what the body is, a reflection, a image, its in a sense "encoded" info.   A pattern of the real, but not quite real itself because its a temporal reflection.  

 In the Earth, in the physical, we have states of contraction and expansion, the Earth is a collective manifestation of those who chose to manifest reality in an unSource like way.  They took a spiritual pattern, changed it, and in doing it they stepped down the rate of vibration of what once was a pure consciousness free of form.   The Earth as always existed as a consciousness, but not always as a "form".  

 In spiritual energies and dimensions, there is the state of pure positive energy, or that of pure expansion.  

 To be continued..(because this post is getting too long).

AAHSOLAOTSUAHHOMMRA ! (hope i spelled it right)

Good stuff, I look forward to seeing how you continue. (you ended with to be continued).

 Back to Chakras and all this stuff.  Let's pretend that Source is like White Light, and that we are like prisms which filter and differientiate this White Light into 7 main "colors" (and many, many other shades, combinations, etc).   This is much like the 7 main Chakras.  

 And it's also very much related to what some call dimensions.   Earth is the 3rd dimension, which is a "mix" of many various consicousnesses and other dimensions, yet with its own properties of "density", of form, etc.

 Earth is essentially "emotional" in nature, though this is hard to put into words.  Bodies and emotions are very tied into each other.  

 Anyways, so these 7 main colors and Chakras are all manifestations of Source, and thus in that sense are "equal" in importance, but they all have different "meaning" in their relative relationships to each other.  

 Red does not mean the same as blue, but the best way to understand red is to relate it to and reason from the perspective of other colors, as well as experiencing itself what "red" is, means, feels like.  

 And of course, the 7 main colors and Chakras all have a different rate of vibration, of frequency which changes according its 'speed'.   This seems implies that there really isn't such a thing as 7 main colors and Chakras, but really only One energy appearing to have different expressions which again has different meaning when their rates are experienced differently.  

 These all really exist within us, and our consciousnesses contain and exist within all simultaneously.

Yet..yet..yet we find ourselves within the Earth, within a dimension, an energy level which means illusion, means groundedness, means opposites, has the influence to make us believe in separation.    The physical is in a sense, frozen light energy, it is very, very slow vibrating and very structured but yet chaotic light energy.  

 Like attracts and begets like, the more you immerse yourself within the physical, the more like a human animal you become in every sense of the word.    Your very physical body even become more dense.  

 Such people tend to have much predominant reds in their auric fields.  Sex, power, money control, image, agression, food, become dominating forces in their life, their thoughts run to such expressions.

 Now, the 7 colors are akin to the 7 Chakras, and have a correspondance.  Such folks are concentrating their consciousness and energies very powerfully, and almost exclusively in their first 2 and/or 3 Chakras.  

 Hence this is also why these colors are so strong and predominant in their auras.   Does red mean spirituality and love?   No, however red is part of the total spectrum and is necessary, but only in small amounts relative to and in balance with the other energies.   We need the physical activiteness and vitality that red means and can impart, but it is easily overdone.  

All colors and energies can be "overdone" and this is really more an issue of balance than anything...but yet, the more spiritual we become, the more loving we become, the more our frequency patterns speed up and phase into the blues, violets, goldens, and eventually even pure White Light.  

 It is also much like astrology and princples within same.   12 signs beginning with Aries and ending with Pisces.   This is both a cycle, and yet a continuum.    As each sign goes towards Pisces, it contains within it consciously speaking, the expression of all the other signs before it.  Hence Pisces contains all 11 signs before it, and this explains Pisces great depth, mult-facetedness, fluidity, compassion, etc.   Yet Pisces flows back into Aries to start again, and hopefully eventually a perfect balance is reached which then transcends this cycle.

 Look at violet and purple for a moment.  These contain both red and blue.   Those with a lot of clear, bright violet and purple more balanced to the blue spectrum in their auras tend to be rather loving people.   These are often what we would call truly "spiritual" people.   And yet, as fast vibrating as true violet, and these shades are, golden yet even surpasses that, and in turn pure White Light is even more expanded and fast vibrating, the most, the ultimate.  

 What makes this all hard to understand is that its not "sequential" and linear in actual application and in people since we contain all within us.   We don't become or phase into purely blue or 5th Chakra energy from green and 4th Chakra consciousness.  No, its more relative, complex, and interweaving than that.   We each all have a unique pattern of degree of passive, activeness, amplification, balance and imbalance between all the Chakras.  

 However, i and other aura sensitives have noted time and time again, that the more truly spiritual a person becomes, the more their auras become filled up with what we would call the faster vibrating colors like that of deep blue, indigo, violet, golden.   These begin to dominate.  

 The colors and patterns don't lie, while the individual, the guru may paint a fake image and project that out.  

To be continued...and relating more specifically to what you said in your post.

Wingrin said: My dreams at this time also confirmed this when I followed the sound to the "heart of the universe" and had a chat there with a very cool and humourous monk. Make of this what you will.
_____

this thread is exciting me, I may have to find an animal to pet to ground me :)

I once, no it was twice, did the same above as Wingrin. although it was not immediate. it was in two phases. I am still figuring it out.
1) heard the tone through the human voice (on a record)
2) made a semi conscious intention to visit the vocolist out of body.
3) saw my journey and also humanities journey in the words of a song.
4) forgot all about it
5) shortly thereafter (in the 80's this happened) I was granted permission to see this person by a spirit who asked me like a password question it seemed; she said "are you certain you want me to fetch him?"
I sensed deeper meaning there in her question but I'm rather the plunge first ask questions later type person so I said I was sure.
5) he arrives and I told him that due to hearing his tone, I was now aware of my mission to find out what love is. then he gave me a boost in TMI terminology and back I went into my life to find out what love is for humanity, not just me and him, then I told him I would be reporting back in to tell him what I discovered.

and now I'm pondering on the tone that drew me out of myself, for if anything, an obe trip is a pulling out of yourself and to find our connections with the rest of humanity for in our oneness there is these connection points.

now, lol, as to finding out what love is..undistorted by ego (ego to mean that which seeks power unto itself, but does not allow the other to be shining, PUL lifts others) it takes a whole lifetime, but some of the things said on this thread are pointing in the right direction.


I notice Wingrin calls it a Quest in the title, while I called it a mission. I think Quest sounds better.

I'm in the same place regarding Wingrin's wondering about these journeys of how much is real, how much is symbolism or something not real, or something that is perceived through your own filters, your rose colored glasses.
I've decided you cannot live in two dimensions at the same moment, but that we blink in and out or walk in between the two, going along at your own pace.
this other world is where we create the physical world events. then it manifests into the Earth. we will often use symbology of images or music tones to point to our greater selves, until we can remember who we are and what are our intentions are for being here.

Insofar as relationships go, I have come upon something mind boggling which explains our oneness better. it is that in relationship we haphazardly perhaps, create one another in our minds to be as we expect them to be. when they fail to be what we thought they were, meanwhile the other is creating you to be as they perceive, desire, you to be.

then the nature of love is simple, is to be allowing self expression of the other without condemnation of the other and this creates pathways of growth into our fullness, and is a journey we are all on.

lol. so now I have to go tell my friend that I discovered what love was and completed my mission. hope he read this. http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/wave.gif

Very good stuff, I'm glad you are flushing it out like you are... because it was un-clear from your first post in this thread, where you were coming from. Keep going!

P.S. WHO is the body for?  Is it a dream body and all the other planes dream worlds (created from dis-connect from source) and attempt to "eat" from other "false-empty source" (TREE of DEATH or Tree of KNOWLEDGE, ......  since one TREE was TREE of LIFE, the other has to be the TREE of DEATH, isn't this obvious).  That is my experience.  Does that fit your "world view" and if not , would be interested in hearing your take on that.

P.S.S. . someone wrote inbetween us , and I'll read what she wrote... after this last p.s.s. ! :)

RichMan wrote,
Quote:

I think the WEST think the "higher chakras" is the way to go, been hearing that since I was young.   But most of those people who practice that look "spacie" to me and have that "fake" "false" "ego love" vibe.  I went that way, and other's use to say that about me.... and looking back they were "right", although at time they "seemed wrong" to me!   The higher you go in charkas is NOT GOOD unless you Understand the "unconsciousness" contains the "SEED" of SOUL.  And it's not in the upper centers.  If it was those people wouldn't be "EGO-maniac's" , many of these eastern masters that came to this country, were full of b.s.  They would wear their clothes and talk a good game, but in end, B.S.  Not all of them, but most of them.  And "western ego-manic" types ate it up, of course they did, it was like "doing drugs"... getting "high"... YEAH go to HIGH centers, yeah baby, trip out.

 First off, i know what you mean in the first paragraph about the look of some folks who are into the New Age very strongly ie the really spacy, kind of fake, etc. look.   Often they tend to a strong imbalancedness to the right brain polarity, and aura wise they tend to have a lot of pink (which most pinks tend to have more red than anything, very ego oriented), pale blues, and/or pale lavender like colors in their aura's.  

 They tend to think they are much more attuned and spiritual than they really are, or rather they think they are very spiritually mature, near graduation, etc.    But anyways, they are nice people, mean well, and tend to be idealistic.  

 In short, they are not as in their "higher" chakras as they tend to think they are.  Or sometimes they are somewhat, but there is a lack of an overall holistic balance which is very necessary if full At-One-Ment is to be fully remembered while in the body-physical consciousness.

Same with the Gurus that you have mentioned in the above.   Many of these really weren't phasing that much into their higher centers, but rather trying to appear like it.   Trying to get people and/or themselves to think so.   All the meanwhile the unregerated and strong sex drives, strong attachment to food, to certain kind of unregenerated emotional expressions, to feelings of "specialness", etc. which are attributes of the slower vibrating Chakras and colors, and to some extent to any besides the White Light state of being (which is completely balanced, integrated, and unified).   Oft the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd Chakras are really amplified, with some amplification of the 5th and 6th, which gives some energy sensitivity, but because of the lack of balance and over amplification of the slower vibrating centers, they are more ego based than not as a tendency.  

 And so, some of these would try to get their artificially or recommend that way to others, like through drugs, etc.  

 The only real way, is by being a loving person in action and practicing some form of meditation-prayer which helps open you up to become a more clear channel so that you can be a loving person in thought, feeling, and action.   Without the action part too, there is an imbalance.  What you are more talking about is "delusion".


 But you're right, there is a big factor of "unconsciousness" here.  As we speed up our inner energies, towards that of the "higher" centers, we must make sure we work on our own unconscious aspects, to regenerate any and all unconscious parts of ourselves which are hindering a greater flow and awareness of perfect love.  

 The energy once raised to the head, must "go down" to purify the other centers, otherwise the powerful energy of Kundalini can run amok, and like we have seen in some of these eastern Gurus, they become egotists though often "attractive" egotists.    There is some of this inherent difficulty in the consciousness of purple and in the 3rd eye center.  

 So ideally what happens is again, that a figure 8 develops within the energy system, that flows harmoniously and unimpeded, and this reveals a UNITY of all the Centers, which is what brings, faciliates, or rather corresponds to the pure White Light experience and consciousness.   Problem is, is that enough balance isn't usually manifested within the Temple (the body) to hold this consciousness indefinitely, such as we find in Yeshua.  

 So, its really more about balance and integration rather than just "higher" and "lower" chakras.  But first one must "ascend" and then bring those energies back down.  

Or as you wrote,
Quote:

You have to go IN before you go OUT ... finish coming IN ... we came here to COME IN , and "beginners" are trying to go OUT before coming in!   "HE brought it to the MARKETPLACE"... and not the MOUNTAIN.  MOSES on the MOUNTAIN ... CHRIST in the HEART and in the Marketplace.  And the HEART is not UP ... and the FATHER is not UP and OUT but IN and DEEPER DOWN.  The masses always go in the opposite direction.

 Rather i would say, that Yeshua went up into the mountain, and then came back down to help act as a catalyst of cleansing, revivifying, and speeding up in regards to others.  

If he had stayed up in the mountain, or in the wilderness, his energies would have stagnated and turned in on themselves as a toxin.   Such energy cannot stay passive and be healthy.   It must flow circularly.   You ascend to the mountain, and then you bring it back down to purify the slower vibrating Chakras.   Its a total system after all.  

 Then...then do the higher and lower chakras merge in the meeting place, in one's own Heart.  

 Not that the Heart is the most expanded or most loving Chakra, rather the most Universal, hence the most truly loving is the Crown, but what do we express out of when relating to other individuals, out of the Heart.  

So the Heart must and can become the co-resonator with the Crown.   But if the Heart is not in sync with the Crown, if its not awakened by the Crown, then the Heart just corresponds to personal love which is based on like attracts like, or like minds, of mutual harmony.    

 Its the love which says, "if you treat me nice, love me, i will love you back."  or "if we get along, and have an innate harmony i shall love you or we shall love each other."    

 Crown is completely Universal and impersonal in nature, and its when we can purely express that out of our more personally oriented Heart, that we come to full awareness of the Divine within and without.  Crown loves all equally, even those who do not get along with, like, or treat it well.   It is Yeshua and Source type of love.

 Thank you for the supportive words Richman.  All in all, this is just my understanding, and isn't necessarily true.  I have spent awhile trying to put all the pieces together, which is why i've studied astrology, auras, chakras, dimensional concepts, endocrine glands, etc, but i've still yet to understand it and piece it all together.  

 Meanwhile i've really side tracked Wingrins thread here--hope they don't mind too much, if anyone wants i can move this stuff to another thread.  

 In any case, right now i have to go though.  

Thanks

Great stuff and I like how you are integrating it.  

My head does seem to be "empty" a lot more than past (I like the term no-mind) the term Crown (dealing with kingship) is an OPEN SHAPED fORM resting on TOP OF HEAD... open from above so it can I guess "flow down"   ... and I sort of think of that as "holy spirit", my Heart does feel "loving energy" I think of "son" or "Christ" center, and my Gut does feel like "Father" energy to me (POWER CENTER).  I know regular chakras see the 3rd chakra as Power or yellow center dealing with human interaction/lower intelligence.  And I used to feel that way.  But my GUT seems to be "FATHER" to me, right now. Although I haven't studied Chinese stuff, I think those people think the GUT area is CENTER in their system.  I'm leaning towards that, from my own experience.  (But you did say, that after going UP you go down again and all the Centers take on NEW MEANING and purpose, so maybe this is what you are saying too... I like the concept of going UP and then going back down , because that feels right to me too.)

And I agree with you , it is cool to attempt to put into words the "stuff" we are experiencing and we are all learning, and it's great to talk to others that are into this stuff.

And like you , my experience is always going through changes, and cycling around.  I do believe in a figure 8 , like you, a cycling of energies.  It's good bouncing stuff back and forth like this, I get a chance to hear the process others are going through and it allows me the opportunity to try to "express" my process too.  

I use three things in looking at beings "I look in the eye, listen to tone quality of voice, and watch how they move, I can gather a lot from doing that, with MIND quiet, (you have a cat, I'm sure you have learned that from him/her, too, cat's very cool beings) ... what people say is not as important to me now.  That's why animals seem a lot cooler to me now.  Animals are very aware in their eyes, and are always aware of "body movement" ... assessing seeing and hearing in very cool way.  And if Center is my Gut, then Instinct and Intuition (GUT FEELING) become interesting brothers.

It is strange to hear myself say the CENTER is my GUT, because for 4 or 5 years, I was saying my Center was my heart, and the star of David the 6 pointed star seemed like Center place.  But now the, belly button, umbilical cord, the first ATOM, seems like the beginning and end. Strange, I'm shifting, and the HEART lead to GUT.  Who knows, what will happen next year! :)

Wing said: Once during Tantra sex with my wife our root chakras combined and created a ball of energy that we both felt flew off into the universe. Mmmm.  
____

was wondering what you guys created? could have been loosh for the harvest? (Monroe)

another entity? far out.  :)

Greetings, Alysia and Wingrin and all,

There are at least three variations on that 'loosh' term that are quite different from each other. Perhaps here and now we can get them sorted out.

The term 'Loosh' seems to refer to an etheric vapor that is effused by earth's higher life forms to then be reabsorbed by non-physical entities as energy needed for their vitality. It is generated by humans for use by other entitities but is not taken away from us per se, it's more a by-product of our living and breathing.

When Monroe's term 'loosh-farmers' got involved, it seems to have suggested that loosh can and should be reaped  :-/ , harvested, taken. This goes against all principles of the religions I know where rules are based upon not taking this and that---exs: adultery--wives,  coveting and gluttony--more than your fair share,
killing--another life, etc.    Loosh when farmed by bullies or with greediness does endanger the life, health, and stamina of an individual it is taken from. I have met such greedy bully-farmers.
Any true farmer knows that seasons are required to grow and replenish any crop.  Yet even in the etheric, greediness can and does become involved and it does endanger 'future crops.'  It is unloving, unsharing, inconsiderate of any consequences other than the farmers' own immediate satisfaction. It is unnatural in its disregard for natural cycles of time and energy needed to replenish any crop, even to the point of being a desecration of a resource meant to be sacred.

Wingrn's example of a sacred dynamic energy  (mmmmm-mm!* :)*) that propelled him and his wife into ecstactic realms is not freed loosh; it is the finest love-energies that can take sharing humans to the heights of the holy. They created and shared this energy through mutual loving (with some input from higher realms also likely). New souls can be created from this dynamic but don't have to be. This sacred energy fueled their exploration of the Divine.

Thankfully I've experienced all three of these types of energy-exchanges. My explorations have been fueled by the PUL from this community so I don't like to disagree with what's been written here [about loosh 'farming.']. Again it's the failure of language: Love, loosh, and so many aspects of the etheric and astral etc have qualities we need to differentiate but have no words to do so. This web community has experienced people who can communicate to sort this all out.

Love, Bets

Hi all, I'm loving the ideas.

Laff & Bets, I felt at the time that the ball of combined energy we created was special and it seemed to zoom off into the universe encoded with our love & it had a life of it's own because of the male & female energy being bigger than the sum of its parts, but for what purpose I don't know. I'd like to think it was like a soul agreement as we were married soon after. Maybe an etheric love declaration? It only ever happened once.

As for the discussion on chakras Ahso & Rich I've found that enlightening. It's good to verbalise our truths.
I think Jesus gave us a very elegant metaphor for how Love evolves our energy body and a bit of a hint on the dynamics of the forces involved with this following quote...

"I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. He cuts off every
branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear
fruit he trims clean so that it will be even more fruitful." -- John
15:1

Cheers
Cris

Concerning the LOOSH stuff, it makes sense if "lower beings are feeding off even lower beings...then higher beings would feed off the lower beings".  

But if a being feeds off the Source, higher or lower ranked beings, couldn't feed off "that being" because the "energy" would be too PURE and "harm... the parasite-type being".  Like getting too close to "sun" would burn their body (the fires of "hell" are actually "GOD's LOVE" that appears to "hurt those beings" ), or eatting the "energy of sun" would harm us.  We have to "eat" stuff that fits our "physical body" ... and is in tune with our " physical body".... so humans eat animals, and plants, energy stepped down.  

Plants eat earth and sun-light, animals eat plants or other animals that eat plants, humans eat animals and plants , and LOOSH eat us! :)  And higher Loosh eat lower loosh! :)  Tree of Death stuff.  It's a spiral!  I believe american indians knew about this, understanding that if they "took the life of animal brother, something would eat them in turn and accepted that as Way of the Circle of Life".  

Our Spirit Body eats God's Pure Energy, and if we have faith, that would be enough, we wouldn't need to eat anything else!  That would be enough! The Food of GOD.  

Jesus talked about eating the Spirit or eating GOD and most of his followers didn't understand that, and walked away, they couldn't understand how they could eat "HIS BODY" and "Drink HIS BLOOD"... but it was not the human being Jesus that was talking but the FATHER IN HIM that was SPEAKING, (know ye not, that the FATHER is in ME, and all these years with me, you have been SPEAKING to the Father, I the SON made the decision not to speak my words, but the Words of my Father , but a time is coming when I too will speak and ME and the FATHER shall come unto you or into you and REST in you.)  :)

are we all working in JC underground here? :)  love it! I like the merge of new age and Christian ideas.

thank you for sharing a most personal and sacred experience of a merge with us Wingrin. not many wish to share something personal which quite possibly could be, shall we say, sullied by another's perceptions who was also vocal in their expression. and so just my way of acknowledging it takes courage to say your piece.


I won't go into my merge stories here as I tend to write books but will say if it feels sacred, then lets just let it be what it felt like.

Richman, you seem such a grounded, earthy type person to remind us of the very natural food chain. myself, being a city person found out about the food chain by living in the wilds where the coon, coyote, bear, eagle, as well a strange looking crane type bird, prehistoric looking, these things kept me running around observing what the food chain does.  took me awhile to figure out what you all probably know already, especially the farmers. any here?

I came to terms with not feeling bad about it. getting eaten by the great spirit in the sky is the least of my concerns! :)
I didn't blame the coon, who was ravenously hungry for mauling my duck yet not finishing the job of putting it out of its misery.  I took it to the vet for euthenization  and strengthened my fence area.  the lesson was I loved both critters, but knowing about the food chain and actually coming face to face with it is two different things.

if we could educate kids about where food comes from other than the store I would like this as society produced me, one very naive person until I saw for myself.

not to get off topic. theres another way to look at it: this loosh thing, it doesn't have to be denigrating in the least. I see retrieving as retrieving energy forms, I see myself as a recycler also. I am always recycling my thoughts. I like order, everything where its supposed to be, in the sense closer to it's pure state, or god.
there was a life force in my duck's body. I took it down to be released. I was not going to pretend a piece of god was not in the duck.
they gave me some trouble. nobody brings ducks in here for euthenization lady, did you say there was a dog in that box? no, I said, I repeat this is a duck in here, and you have to hurry and put it out of its misery! ok he said. sit down. pretty soon I heard ok, you can bring in your dog lady. I said it's a duck!  :(

all life is precious as the same life force we use, the duck uses, and if life moves in circular pattern rather than linear, then we can understand it all comes back around, taking new form, new personality, like old wine in new containers.


ok I think I've managed to get us way off topic as I'm so talented that way. love, alysia

Alysia,

I just wanted to tell you that just from reading all your posts and the answers you have given me here, I think you are just the sweetest, most loving person. I feel the love coming from you. Thank you for sharing the love!  :)

well thanks for the kudos Shelbert. I might not be all that sweet actually. I am just an animal lover I for the most part. I have many duck tales to tell someday. love, alysia

You rock Alysia !!!

 ;D
Love
Wingrin

Wingrin wrote on May 17^th, 2007 at 8:46am:

You rock Alysia !!!  ;D Love Wingrin

thanks!   http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/spiritvideo/Alysia/myspace2/myspace3/danceToon.gif