Greetings,

On another thread Alysia spoke of Wikipedia's treatment
of our host and the concept of OB projections. That got me
wonderring---

Wikipedia says that Monroe (?) says that
different sheaths of subtle bodies are used by various practicianers and explorers of OB travel, and the type of subtle body used determines many characteristics of the experience.
Have you read anywhere where someone attempts to catalog the characteristics of each separately? (Etheric, astral, mental, ...?)

We have people here who have experienced 'projection' in a variety of ways---as a point of consciousness that has the capacity for great speed,
with a sense of regular anatomy that is flowing, fluid, but not fast,
etc.
If we took notes on our OBs, then grouped them by our sense of the 'body' we were in, we could perhaps add to the knowledge needed about this subject.
(Did Dude's notes on his OBs specify what type of 'body' he perceived from?)
Does anyone want to contribute to such a group project?

Bets

That sounds interesting Bets.  I group my own experiences together this way paying close attention to how I perceive myself in OBEs, and particularly in writing my book I try to make the distinctions clear and easy to understand.  I've actually been trying to come up with a sort of "chart" that shows some kind of rhyme or reason as to how and why an experience is perceived one way or another.  

Exactly, Vicky!

Good to know someone's working on this.  Pioneers have to make the maps!
Are you charting your own or also adding others to it?

Love, Bets

Just doing my own.  I have to try to make sense of my own before I can better understand others'.  
:)

Hi Bets, yes I found the Wikipedia description interesting. I have in my own studies read early esoteric material concerning thought forms and the 7 chakras of the human. these chakras I study now and then when I feel movement in one or more of them.

I suppose we are all writing our story down as we go. each experience will vary which body to use, or just to be a remote viewer is another experience, perhaps a lot like phasing.

my obes I noticed I have an energy body of feelings. I found with the energy body, in C1, if I learned to slow down, and "pace" my self, not to walk fast, but measure my energy, then I carried this pacing over into obe state. then after learning this pace thing, which was like cultivating patience, it outpictured in the obes as a body gliding thru space and in control of her feelings. I hope that might add something to the conversation.

yet the phasing, I was there too, but had no body, that was like a combo/remote view/phasing.  with my PE partner, not sure if it was her etheric body I saw, it was filmy, indistinct, but her form for sure. wide awake too. she couldn't see me.
that must have also been remote viewing/phasing.

we certainly could do more reading on the subject. we seem to be in our infancy stage at present.

love, alysia

Hi

I suppose physical collections (libraires) of this material are out of date. (Burn, Alexandria, burn!) In Wheaton IL, the Theosophical Center had personal journals in their libraries. There I was first amazed at the similarities of spiritual experience people were having, even back when people couldn't influence each other so readily. (Hah, a pun--'read'-ally.) (I wish Don--or anyone-- could spend some time there.)

Perhaps someday some wealthy patron of spiritual explorations will get it all copied into a huge database so that armchair researchers can make some statistical data that will make it easier to convince the hold-outs!
Meanwhile, Wikipedia's just sort of caught in a mire of partial truths, IMO.

Alysia, are you saying that literally the pace of your walking has helped you establish some levels of spiritual awareness? I could get off my duff and start walking if that were true!

Bets

 Can't truly speak for Dude, but from what i read of his accounts, it sounds like he was phasing into his etheric i.e. classic OBE energies mostly.  

 That would correspond mostly to upper "levels" of the 2nd Chakra, and to the "lower levels" of the 3rd somewhat.   What's confusing sometimes is that we have "5" main "bodies", but yet 7 main or major Chakras.  These are not exactly the same thing, but yet have a relative correspondance which shades from one Chakra to the other.   Much like a rainbow shades from one major color to the other.   Tends to manifest confusion i've noticed.  What's makes it more interesting, relative, and possible confusing is that different Chakras can be and often are involved at the same time as well.   Cause a person who is mostly concentrating their consciousness at those above mentioned levels, will rarely go OBE from a physically awake state, there usually has to be some Heart or 3rd Eye Chakra activation going on too.


 Interesting last post and observations Bets, most everywhere i look in my spiritual wanderings and searches, i see commonalities and underlying similar patterns and themes--especially with the more verified and less seemingly greedy or overly material oriented sources.    And some of my own experiences as well as intuitions more oft than not, blend in some way with those patterns.  

 Do the beliefs manifest the patterns or do the patterns shape the beliefs, or both?  I lean to both.

Greetings AhSo,

Do we use only five subtle sheaths for OBE because that's all we are evolved enough to do? With maybe two more in waiting, or do lower chakras one and two not take us anywhere we wish to go?

Bets

 Hi there Bets,

 Don't really know, will meditate on it to see if i get an answer.  Maybe both (or more) of us could and then post if we got anything on it?

thanks for your face Justin. I see love.

Bets said: Alysia, are you saying that literally the pace of your walking has helped you establish some levels of spiritual awareness? I could get off my duff and start walking if that were true!
____

Yes, but not the exercise of walking by itself. it's an inner awareness that I don't have to rush anywhere, so that is what I meant by a calmer approach to obes and other type explorations, even meditation.

which btw, meditational writing is my forte now, I don't consciously do obes anymore unless I'm prompted to by spirit. the writing is enough for me to get rotes to keep me busy.
Also, scuse me if I get blasted to hell for mentioning what I learned from Elias study, is to observe my thoughts and emotions on a moment to moment basis.

Try that and you'll see how difficult it is. that is what I mean by pacing the energy body of thought, not to be caught up in fear games that the world presents to us for the viewing. fear is everywhere, but you don't have to buy into the fear thoughts as real.

even still, I will say to myself in any given day, "What am I thinking now?" or what am I feeling now?" you don't have to change your thoughts, or change your emotions, but it helps you to observe yourself if what you are experiencing is a fear thought or a love thought, so where I used to hurry in stress to do something, if I slow my steps to practice a trustingness there is no fear then to be expressing in the body, which is always related to the energy body, the one that does go obe, will reflect what you have felt and thought on a consistent basis, as what you think and feel consistently is your energy body.

Justin, I have pictures of the 7 colored chakras and their placement. I picture them to be spinning with energy clockwise, and some counter clockwise. I don't know what this means. I have heard some of us will use one or the other chakra portal to exit from in obe. I have used the 3rd eye, between the eyes, this chakra to exit from before.

I have had my solar plexes chakra worked on out there before, I believe it is called the seat of personal power. it is one I need to work on more often in my thoughts, as well the 1st chakra is undergoing some changes as I work on sexuality issues and creativity issues. My other chakras do pretty well by themselves.

it may sound far fetched and I don't believe we can accomplish this without help from guides, but it is my theory to get all seven chakras to spin at the same speed, not to do this, but to allow ascension to take place. this takes a whole life time or more.

love, alysia

betson wrote on May 9^th, 2007 at 1:17pm:

Greetings AhSo, Do we use only five subtle sheaths for OBE because that's all we are evolved enough to do? With maybe two more in waiting, or do lower chakras one and two not take us anywhere we wish to go? Bets

we should all try and help each other with these kinds of questions Bets. not making any promises lol, but I will get back with you if I come up with an answer.

the thing with phasing, if it can be learned easily, which I think it can, is we then don't have to learn about the 7 bodies until we are prepared to learn about them. phasing  can bring in rotes or we can do retrievals by that method if we can just be satisfied with what we do bring back in memory and work with that, its my theory, we will be given more by happily working with what we do get. don't know if that makes any sense at all because I know we are all rather adventurous here! I guess I'm preaching trust again. sorry.

love, alysia

Hi Alysia and all,
I just double checked my Reiki training notes and it said that counterclockwise motion closes the chakra and clockwise opens it. I don't know if this helps you or not.

Love,
Michelle

Hey AhSo - I see you've added a new sheath! - Rob

Michelle E wrote on May 10^th, 2007 at 12:33am:

Hi Alysia and all, I just double checked my Reiki training notes and it said that counterclockwise motion closes the chakra and clockwise opens it. I don't know if this helps you or not. Love, Michelle

yes! that does help me! thanks Michelle. I had a picture in my head, as I didn't study Reiki like you have, but this image pictures them all spinning clockwise and that they should spin clockwise it seemed, but I questioned it when intuition was saying sometimes they can spin counter clockwise. thanks again. :)

Quote: "...that counterclockwise motion closes the chakra and clockwise opens it. I don't know if this helps you or not."
 I have read that the spinning direction of chakras is opposed with man and women. Also, "clockwise" and "counterclockwise" only make sense when it's clear from which viewpoint it's seen. I always miss a clarification about it in books.

Spooky

You made me chuckle, Spooky.  I have the same difficulty:  which way is clockwise and from what perspective do we see this motion?  Nice to know that I'm not the only one that can't tell clockwise from counterclockwise.  (Interesting thought, 'counterclockwise' is sort of Germanic the way we tack three different words together.)

Rob
 

I guess I'll just let'em spin whichever way they want! :)  Rob, we're in the same boat. when someone says push the button on the left side of the screen first I check to see which is my left hand, upon finding my left hand I check the left side of the screen, however I stop to wonder which computer they are using, mac or pc and sure enough the button will be on the right side of mine.

then the rule of tightening a nut and a bolt is different which way to turn, so don't get me started about plumbing either. ::)


insofar as getting back to topic which has wandered to chakras (I love getting off topic!)

they say the seat of love is in the heart. however I feel love vibes at the back of my neck just slightly lower than my ears and in between right now, like wiggley lines of energy, maybe tomorrow I will feel my big toe tingling with love and realize there is a tiny chakra on the feet too! haha!

love to you all, I do believe I mean it.  :)

spooky2 wrote on May 11^th, 2007 at 7:18pm:

Quote: "...that counterclockwise motion closes the chakra and clockwise opens it. I don't know if this helps you or not."  I have read that the spinning direction of chakras is opposed with man and women. Also, "clockwise" and "counterclockwise" only make sense when it's clear from which viewpoint it's seen. I always miss a clarification about it in books. Spooky

 I've wondered about this also.   All i can say though, is that in healing work i've done, sometimes i feel the need to charge and expand energy, and i will do this by rotating my right hand clockwise (from my perspective) while holding open my left hand.  

 But part of me wonders if any of such things are truly necessary, let alone all the complex symbols, movements, etc. that are used in Reiki for example.  

  I suppose if one speeds up their rate of vibration and consciousness, and also balance themselves enough, they wouldn't need any outer props like this, but meanwhile such props can be useful aids till we get to that point in our spiritual development.

 I would like to get some more clarification on the issue of Earth polarity and directions.  There is some info in TMI and Cayce stuff which goes a bit into this, but again because of the lack of specific explaining of perspective, can be a bit confusing.  

 For example, Cayce was told by his guides to lay down in different directions for different kinds of psychic readings.   If he were to give a reading on physical health, he would face North or South (don't remember exactly).   But since Cayce laid down, what exactly was meant by "facing".  Cause if one sits up and faces say North, when they lay down their head is pointing towards South, and vice versa.

 A reading on Atlantis, he should face East.   A broad, spiritual, more univeral type reading would be either South or North, again can't remember which exactly, but its opposite the physical reading.  I'm not sure if West was ever mentioned, i don't recollect.  

 Monroe mentions in his first book, something about aligning to the North South polarity, i believe he had head to the North?   Anybody remember what exactly he talked about?

Rob Calkins wrote on May 10^th, 2007 at 11:34am:

Hey AhSo - I see you've added a new sheath! - Rob

 Aye, a kitty sheath.  Thanks for noticing. :)

betson wrote on May 9^th, 2007 at 1:17pm:

Greetings AhSo, Do we use only five subtle sheaths for OBE because that's all we are evolved enough to do? With maybe two more in waiting, or do lower chakras one and two not take us anywhere we wish to go? Bets

 Update:  I didn't really get to meditate much on this question, though i did remember during a brief meditation to ask about this.  I was kind of tired that day, and ended up falling alseep though.  

 I do have some thoughts on it though, but i'm not sure how "inspired" they are if at all.  

Basically it seems simple to me.  We have 5 main "bodies" which actually seem like bodies in a sense.  They have some kind of locality, a reference point for a mind and consciousness which is heavily immersed in space/time concepts.  

There aren't "bodies" connected to Chakra's 6 and 7 because these are consciousness states of moving completely beyond limited, finite, space/time concepts.   These are the beginnings of really starting to feel and experience, existing everywhere and in everything, though not quite completely yet eg. not full Source attunement or "enlightenment" (my reference point of same is from the example of the man Yeshua).

 A "body" implies some kind of limitation or locality, or in physics terms it implies being a particle as opposed to or compared to a wave of potentiality.   In most of the main energy dimensions connected to the Earth, we experience a more particle like state of being, we see, experience, and convince ourselves that we are a "set" thing.  

 Chakras 6 and 7 start to phase more into the wave like state of being.  These states of being are by their very nature, rather hard to describe in our language, except in terms of broad feeling type connotations.

 So, in a sense, after the 5th dimension we start phasing in and operating from our 5th "body" more and more, the spiritual body, but which is fast becoming bodiless or wave like in nature and more so essences with the sense of great expansion and inclusiveness.  So the spiritual body covers some "levels" of 5th dimensional awareness (the faster vibratory rates of sub dimensions within same), but more so shading into 6th, 7th, and perhaps completely beyond dimensional state of being.   And so spiritual "body" is really kind of a misnomer, but in our language and reference point, its almost necessary to use from a comparitive and relative standpoint.

 Dunno, does this make sense?  In any case, its good to look for answers within as well.  Happy going within.

 

 Hi Alysia, thank you for the kind, supportive words.   :)    I guess one is only as loving as one feels and acts towards others, and honestly while i try and am fairly loving a majority of the time, i feel much more work or rather opening up is needed.   It's still far to easy (in my mind) to get off kilter, because of unregernated emotional energies and patterns, as well as physical-health issues i'm still working with.  

 Anyways, i do appreciate the feeling behind your words.

 Btw, i find the below to be good advice, in a universal sense.  I don't tend to throw the baby out with the bath water.


Quote:

Also, scuse me if I get blasted to hell for mentioning what I learned from Elias study, is to observe my thoughts and emotions on a moment to moment basis.

Yep Me too!

Hey Justin, good to see you...beard and all...me too!

I agree with Both.

Love, Ricardo :)

Hi Justin, I sense we will always be in these shift energies, opening up as you say to wider vistas of being in service to one another. we hold the key though in our hands.

and your picture continues to give me a lift for whatever thats worth, maybe it's the kitty..

[smiley=bath.gif]

Hi all

AhSo, I have to agree with you about the Chakras, as a few times I've tapped into the higher ones, and it subtly feels like my 'body' is actually all the way up to the sky, and I intuitively feel and sense it going out and being connected to the universe in a mysterious kind of way.

Like I'm a drop of water, aware of the ocean I'm in. My physical body is like the trunk of the tree, and the higher chakras the leaves that are drinking in the cosmic energy of space and time.

It would be way cool to be like that all the time. You feel sooooooooooo balanced, and I guess w(holy). Also I suspect it just gets better and better, and I've only had a peek into the DeepGood. It's comforting too that I can experience such things, as I'm no Mother Teresa, just a kindly person trying to do their best, who is energy aware, and schooled in mediation. It's more a state of Grace I feel, in that I haven't 'earned' it, just cleared myself enough to receive Kali's gift.   ::)

Cheers
Cris

Ricardo wrote on May 16^th, 2007 at 6:07pm:

Yep Me too! Hey Justin, good to see you...beard and all...me too! I agree with Both. Love, Ricardo :)

 Hi there Ricardo, tis good to see you around too.  Thank you for saying hi.  Hope everything is going well with you and yours.

 Kool translation Cris.  Probably as good as one can explain and describe such experiences and feelings.  

LaffingRain wrote on May 16^th, 2007 at 9:49pm:

Hi Justin, I sense we will always be in these shift energies, opening up as you say to wider vistas of being in service to one another. we hold the key though in our hands.

 Yup, and well said, though i think the "game" changes a bit when we become fully conscious Co-Creators.


Quote:

and your picture continues to give me a lift for whatever thats worth, maybe it's the kitty.. [smiley=bath.gif]

 Maybe, but glad you're getting a lift either way.  Doesn't matter where it comes from.

 Thinking of changing the kittens name from Kenya to title and name of 'her holiness Guru Cuty Good vibes.'  :D

 Adios

actually Justin, it's your face. you're more relaxed in this photo than the other one I remember. nah, I wouldn't change her name, Kenya's a great name. we shouldn't get too complicated with labels and names. take care, alysia