-than eternal torture does, as far as the subject of "Hell" is
concerned.
Think about this. "God" wants people to choose "him" of their
OWN FREE WILL. "He" wants people who DESIRE TO BE WITH
HIM. Those who DON'T want to be with "him" (I myself fall
rather neatly into this category, along with just about everyone
who's ever meant anything to me) are to be discarded. The only
question is: are they(we!) discarded into eternal howling torture, OR into peaceful oblivion???
Think about this. I'm sure that if the Christian god is for real, "he"
isn't into INEFFICIENCY. "He" will want one nicely-defined group
(the "sheep") and ANOTHER nicely-defined group (the "goats.")
That way, nobody can cry foul - right? O.K.---
BUT - if eternal torture is the true option, then there will be a HUGE
group of "Christians" who need to be discarded... the ones who
converted to Christianity NOT because they loved "God" and wanted
to be with "Him", but those who were AFRAID OF HELL. And this
group would be, BY FAR, the bigger group of Christians - and they'd
have to come over and go into the fire with us honest "God"-rejecters,
wouldn't they now..?
In other words, people wouldn't be GETTING WHAT THEY CHOSE! People who decided AGAINST "Hell", would get it! And "God" would be a word-mincer (why did "He" say "the wages of sin is DEATH", instead of "the wages of sin is TORTURE?" *WHAT SORT OF "GOD"* WOULD MINCE HIS WORDS???????????)
And HOW INEFFICIENT! There would be a whole new, and un-economical step added. In addition to the welcoming of true Christians into "Heaven", and the tossing of honest un-believers (like yours truly) into "Hell", he'd have a whole THIRD class of people (the "bad God-acceptors") to deal with. What would be the point?
With Annihilationism, it makes MUCH more sense. Why?
-Those who chose "God", get "Eternal Life" as an undead creature or what have you. They get what they CHOSE, no surprises or word-mincing.
-Those who REJECTED "God", get what THEY were expecting - oblivion! After all, it is mostly atheists/agnostics who actually REJECT "God", and they expect oblivion after they die. SO, with Annihilationism, they get what THEY chose - no surprises or word-mincing!
AND, nobody can cry foul! With Annihilationism, Christians can truly say, that EVERYONE will get what they TRULY CHOSE. (After all, one can imagine millions of people choosing oblivion, but millions choosing ENDLESS TORTURE stretches credulity a bit too far.)
***SO***---
Unless you think that "God" will accept conversions based on rank, funk FEAR (and relative indifference toward "Him" on the part of the convert) - in other words, "God" is a LEGALIST, who isn't interested in the QUALITY of the convert's devotion, or the convert's motivations... that "He" doesn't care if the sinner is truly turning to "Him", all that matters is that the appropriate magical spell was uttered by the "sinner""-
THEN if you want to be a Christian, you have to assume that Annihilationism is true, and NOT the eternal torture doctrine. (Just because legalistic Republicans tend to be Christians, doesn't make "God" a legalistic Republican, I'm pretty damned sure of that..!)

B-man

I believe the kingdom of God is within us Chumley.  It's within us when we walk the earth and it encompasses us on the outside when we walk (or fly!) the spiritual realm.  Just my reasoning.  :)

B-dawg wrote on May 3^rd, 2007 at 4:54am:

- And HOW INEFFICIENT! There would be a whole new, and un-economical step added. In addition to the welcoming of true Christians into "Heaven", and the tossing of honest un-believers (like yours truly) into "Hell", he'd have a whole THIRD class of people (the "bad God-acceptors") to deal with. What would be the point? B-man

Good thinking, B! Yes, that does sound a little inefficient, doesn't it....

As I was reading this I was thinking of a "middle manager" type of person.  Dunno, that's just what was sitting there in my brain looking at me.

Obviously, a "middle manager" cannot be the true "king of the castle" even if he seems to be to the serfs sometimes.....

Some "middle managers" actually think they "run" the real boss too, sometimes. They consider the system incapable of operating without them.

Wrong. They're the ones who get fired all the time....they're the "scapegoats" :) ha ha

Anyway, yes, God is GRACE, God is GOOD....let us THANK HIM for our FOOD.

The way I was taught, it went: God is GREAT, God is GOOD...let us THANK HIM for our FOOD.

But my words just come out the way they will...willy nilly....whoooooah, little horsey!

It is a child's dinner prayer. We don't ask children to thank "HIM" that they're not on their way to hell, unless we are very strange people indeed.

And we're all children at heart.  

love, blink :)

Chum,

The group who converted to christianity out of fear, would get no heavenly reward.  Astral christian adepts like Swedenborg are clear on this.  We have an inner self which is our true inclinations and tendencies and an outer layer of pretense we wear in the physical world to live in a society.  After death, the pretense is gone, it fades, so our true natures are open for all to see.

If you go to church out of fear of hell, but do not live a life geared toward love, you will not have true points with the divine, and will have an equal afterlife to others who inwardly felt the way you did.

Pretense of going to church means next to nothing if the true sentiments of love are not there.


Matthew

Hi Chumley  Hell is on earth,not in the spirit world.

Man invented Hell,not God


Love and God bless   Love Juditha