Do people believe it is important to have dedication towards that which is divine?

The reason I bring this up is because the issue of channeled sources keeps coming up on this forum. Many people have the belief that it is fine to read just about anything, because in the end you can pick and choose what you like.

But what if a source of information purposely tries to put down that which is divine? Do people feel good about utilizing a source of information that "intentionally" puts down that which is divine? For example, when Seth "intentionally" attempts to put Christ down by completely twisting the meaning of three of his most famous sayings and resultingly takes away the spiritual meaning. And when he denies the crucifixion of Jesus with a story that can easily be found to be illogical in several ways if a person takes the time to discriminate it.

I know that many people don't think much of Christ. They like to falsely connect him to fundamentalist ideas such as eternal damnation.  Some believe that Christ is a being of light, but just one of many. I agree that there are many beings of light, but would a being of light do as Seth does and purposely attempt to belittle another such as Christ?

Regarding the three Christ phrases I speak about above, Seth doesn't mention any of Christ's other phrases.  Doesn't it seem odd that for the three phrases Seth selected, he interpreted them so they wouldn't have any spiritual meaning? Do people feel good about following somebody who purposely attempts to do such a thing?

Some people will say: But I learned this from him, and I learned this from him." Of course. If a source is going to be successful at deceiving people it has to provide them with something to latch on to.  The question is, is it worth it, or is it the only way to learn and grow?

Regarding the erroneous logic Seth used when denying the crucifixion, I won't repeat what I wrote on another thread. Instead I'll provide another example. Remember, Seth uses the Gospels as the basis for his argument, so their inclusion in the argument can't be denied.  Seth claims that Peter denied Jesus because an imposter was being crucified, not Jesus. If one considers the below part of the last supper they'll catch Seth in yet another lie.

From the Gospel of Luke:
[33] And he (Peter) said unto him, Lord, I am ready to go with thee, both into prison, and to death.
[34] And he (Jesus) said, I tell thee, Peter, the thingy shall not crow this day, before that thou shalt thrice deny that thou knowest me.

If a person reads the above with just a little care, they'll see that Seth is wrong, Because Jesus tells Peter that he will deny "him." Not an imposter as Seth claims.

My guess is that some people won't consider the above disscussion about Peter's denial. After all, a poster on another thread actually believes that Seth was correct when he claimed that Jesus was just making a joke when he said to love your neighbor as yourself. Below is that portion of the Sermon of the Mount so people can see how ludicrous and deceptive this claim is.

43 "You have heard that it was said, "You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
44But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,
45that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
46For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
47And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so?
48Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

Dedication to the divine out of a sense of obligation without feeing, is self-serving and hollow.  Many lead pious lives based on what Swedenborg called our "outer nature,"  - the face we show to earthly society.  If there actions are not based on love, these people are surprised to learn that diligence in attending church or temple is not a sure ticket to heaven (although maybe to a hollow heaven).

In the old testament, love of the Lord of the divine is commanded:

"And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.
And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates."

It is interesting that even in the Old Testament, the commandment was to love the Lord, not to dedicate oneself for various purposes to the Lord.  


Matthew

Hi Recoverer I do not beleive what this Seth says,as i love Jesus and God very much and this Seth sounds to me that he is one of those false prophets and there are many of them.

Ive never heard of Seth,but what ive read on your thread about what he says ,i dont think a lot to him and all i can say about him is, far as im concerned,he can go swivel through the starlite skies and spread his lies round there. ::) swivel,swivel Seth.

Love and God bless    Love Juditha

Yes juditha he can go swivel ha-ha love deanna

Albert,

The question of how to experience and project PUL seems related to your question.   One astral adept asked me: "Can't we just focus on PUL and forget about God or the Creator? After all, PUL is the dominant force for good in the universe."   My reply is No.  Our experience of PUL is at best sporadic, and people who routinely claim to project PUL are usually just being pretentious.  "Pure" means uncontaminated by ego-based motives and "unconditianal" means "universal and independent of how the other is behaving towards you." None of us are capable of this on a consistent basis.

Consider what St. Paul teaches on this issue:

"But when the Holy Spirit controls our lives, He will produce this kind of fruit in us--love, that is, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control (Galatians 5:22)."

Paul implies here that we are incapable of PUL from our own efforts. Rather, through prayer and meditation, we must commune with the Holy Spirit, so that the Spirit can manifest these qualities through us, qualities that break PUL down into its component parts.  

New Agers should ask themselves this question: If PUL is a basic principle determining our spiritual progress now and in the afterlife, then who created this PUL?  If we admit the answer is our Creator (God), then the next question is this: Does this not imply that God is love as the New Testament teaches?  If the answer is Yes, then two more questions logically arise: (1) Must we not strive to fuel up and continually refuel on PUL from the source (God or the Holy Spirit)?  We can only refuel on PUL through regular prayer and meditation that is integrated with a life dedicated to loving service to others.  (2) Might not the Source of PUL delight in having PUL directed at "Him" (It, etc.) just as we direct it to others?   Indeed, might not the continual direction of PUL to God be the key to channeling it more frequently to others?  If the answer is Yes, then recognize that this is the true meaing of the word 'worship."  

Don

P.S.  Albert, I use the New Living Translation of Galatians 5:22, but make one change--"love, that is...."  I make this change because in Greek "fruit" is singular and refers exclusively to "love."  Love is not just one of a series of virtues listed. Rather, the other virtues expand on the meaning of love as a "fruit" (singular) of the Holy Spirit.

And just what is Divine?  Is only God as defined in the bible divine?  Are there not other aspects of the divine, worshipped throughout the world in other forms?

What do you say to the Hindu who does not worship the God of the bible?  Are they mistaken?

If we are all part of a Creator..that is, we are all created by a Creator, then a part of that Creator must be within us, no?  

I'm not sure if its the "divine" that I see within others..or just a connection..

Ok, sorry for ramble.

Again, I ask, please define "Divine".. :)

Shirley wrote on Apr 24^th, 2007 at 7:34pm:

And just what is Divine?  Is only God as defined in the bible divine?  Are there not other aspects of the divine, worshipped throughout the world in other forms? What do you say to the Hindu who does not worship the God of the bible?  Are they mistaken? If we are all part of a Creator..that is, we are all created by a Creator, then a part of that Creator must be within us, no?   I'm not sure if its the "divine" that I see within others..or just a connection.. Ok, sorry for ramble. Again, I ask, please define "Divine".. :)

Nice post  and I agree with you..

Shirley asked: And just what is Divine?  Is only God as defined in the bible divine?  Are there not other aspects of the divine, worshipped throughout the world in other forms?

As opposed to answering by referring to book knowledge, I'll answer by referring to experience. When I've experienced divine love I've felt like I was in touch with the most precious and beautiful thing I've ever been in touch with, even though I didn't see anything. I didn't wave my fist at this presence and shout "I'm your equal!" I felt too much gratitude, humility, reverence, appreciation, loyalty and love towards it to even consider such a way of thinking. I guess you could call the presence I was in touch with "God."

I've experienced the same feelings when I've been visited by the presence of Christ. Why did I have such experiences? Because I was humble enough to open my mind and heart to find out what God and Christ are about, rather than allowing my prejudices based upon fundamentalist interpretations bind me. I found out there are indeed beings who exist that are worthy of my reverence, humility, grattitude, and love. Of course you won't hear this kind of talk from Seth, because he has no interest in such things. If he had, he wouldn't purposely demean Christ as he did.  

Shirley said: What do you say to the Hindu who does not worship the God of the bible?  Are they mistaken?

"When Christ spoke of God I'm certain he wasn't speaking of an old man in the sky who was looking for people to punish. Certainly he understands that God is the source of everything including love, divinity, you and me.

I find it odd that some people believe that they can be aware of and think about everything that exists within their realm of existence,  discs/oversouls can be aware of and think about everything that exists within their existence, but the awareness being within which everything exists, God, can't be aware of and think about everything that exists within his awareness.

Regarding Hindus, I first became interested in Eastern teachings about 28 years ago. I know them quite well. They have their concepts about God just like other people do. God doesn't stop existing and become an insignificant being simply because people have differing concepts about him."


Shirley said: If we are all part of a Creator..that is, we are all created by a Creator, then a part of that Creator must be within us, no?  

"I agree. "

Shirley said: I'm not sure if its the "divine" that I see within others..or just a connection..

"My feeling is that everything has a divine origin. Just doesn't seem this way at times."

Shirley said: Ok, sorry for ramble.

"Sorry?  This is a conversation board."

Shirley said: Again, I ask, please define "Divine".. :)[/quote]

"I look at this way. Either we live according to love and divine will, or we live in opposition to it. If we live according to love, then we'll want to find a way in which all beings can find happiness. My feeling is that the divine powers that be have a divine plan in place. Because the happiness of others is important to me, I want to live according to the divine plan that is in place. I asked God if Christ is a part of his divine plan, and in a number of ways he let me know that he is. I have enough trust in the divine powers that be in order to defer to what they have in mind. It doesn't make sense that each person who comes along starts his or her own plan. Certainly some sort of teamwork is required considering the cosmic scope of things."

Don:

I agree that it is very important to not forget the source of PUL. If it weren't for the source, we wouldn't have the fortune of experiencing PUL. I guess if Seth told people that their parents lack self awareness, some of them would start acting as if their parents didn't exist.

I would have to agree that there is some sort of teamwork involved, which would then imply a team.

I'd like to give a little perspective of where I am coming from in my point of view.  I spent 23 years in the Christian community.  That is all but about 5 years of my adult life..from the time I was 20 until 43.

Having spent that much time in belief, and finding only hopelessness and condemnation, I had to unshackle from that religion.  Yes, I was a full-blown believer...until one day, it just made no sense.

Since then, I have sought for the truth.  Did Jesus exist?  I don't know, there doesn't seem to be any outside confirmation for his existance.

Have I heard his voice?  There were times I thought I did..but they could have been mere figments of my imagination, much as my other inner voices/thoughts are proclaimed to be.

As to Seth..I have no opinion at this time.  Yes, I've read the books, found them interesting.  But, just I don't believe the channeled material in the bible fully, I don't believe any other either.  And we must agree, must we not, that the bible fits the same framework of having been channeled?  After all, what is a prophet, if not a channeler of material?

One other thing.  Jesus (according to the bible) never asked to be revered/worshipped..in fact, he pointed to one greater than himself..

So, after all, wouldn't it be the most safe way to learn something without being deceived, tricked and mislead, when one forgets about all religions and holy persons and instead turns to something like Zen-meditation or a basic abstract version of TMIs focus-level states and then see what comes across (when someone has achieved already some level of self-reflectiveness, otherwise all is nothing anyway) ? We often have here those discussions about was it Jesus or just a pretender or Mohammed and so on... you know, that's a bit unnerving isn't it...

Spooky

Yes, Spooky..I agree with you.  And that is what I have been doing..meditating and seeking the guidance without the holy books/gurus..and for me, it seems to be working quite well.

As to seeing/feeling/experiencing the Divine..many things bring that to me..and many things do not.  Seeking from within, that which is without..

As opposed to answering by referring to book knowledge, I'll answer by referring to experience. When I've experienced divine love I've felt like I was in touch with the most precious and beautiful thing I've ever been in touch with, even though I didn't see anything. I didn't wave my fist at this presence and shout "I'm your equal!" I felt too much gratitude, humility, reverence, appreciation, loyalty and love towards it to even consider such a way of thinking. I guess you could call the presence I was in touch with "God."
____________________________________________________________

Albert, I've never read a more eloquent expression of this point.  I object to the conventional New Age "I am God" theology, often expressed as "God Is All That Is."  But it is not the metaphysical flaws of this conception that limit spiritual growth and experiences of divine presence.  Self-deification usually robs the seeker of the very humility and gratitude that are automatically felt in a divine encounter.  As your experience attests, it is best to experience God and His PUL directly and then recognize the emotions that naturally arise in response to this awesome encounter.  In my own experience and those of everyone I know, the emotions and attitudes that you describe always accompany the enncounter.

Shirley, Jesus accepts worship throughout His ministry (e. g. Matthew 2:2, 8, 11; 8:2; 14:33;  15:25; 28:9 28:17).   By worship is meant profound respect and adoration.  Many Christians also direct petitionary prayer to Jesus.  But Jesus would not approve of this.  Jesus never teaches His disciples to pray directly to Him.  He teaches them to pray to God ("the Father") in His [Jesus'] name and with His authority (John 16:22-23).

Don

Hi This is from my other thread "spirit is destiny" this is the words from spirit saying of the divine one being God.the message here is that we are all one and we all carry the light and love source of God within us all and how we use it, is the reason God gave us Freewill.


 Spirit is the destiny of all time
Apr 21st, 2007, 3:46pm           Spirit came before all time was born,it is the essence that goes into everything we hold in this life existence of  destiny and encounters through space and earth presence,it is the ultimate of all that we stand for ,we are here for time to put everything in prospective for all to witness and understand that this is it ,this is what it all stands for.

Why you ask ,well look inside your very being and you will feel the light essence radiating from your very existence into this world and beyond the veil ,which is destiny ,time and endurance of all things to come in this time and beyond into eons of light ,harmony and oneness with the divine spirit who gave you this opportunity to experience and grow into the light source of the true one God.

God is PUL within us.

Love and God Bless     Love Juditha

Thank you Albert for such a beautiful description of experiencing the Divine within each of us.  

As I read through these posts I was reminded of an experience I went through many years ago where I felt completely and totally abandoned by God.  Never in my life had I felt such mental and emotional pain.  I remember laying in bed one night and screaming out to God, “Where are you?  Why did you leave me?”  It took a while until I eventually realized that it wasn’t God that had abandoned me, it was me who had abandoned God.  My words reminded me of what Jesus had said on the cross, “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?”  To me Jesus had experienced hell and that’s what hell is… abandonment from God or where we have completely cut our self off from our Divine essence within.  

In short, our fearful beliefs are how we distort and block our divine essence from flowing freely through us.  God (Divine essence) is always within us… we are never left alone.  Now when I read something like what Matthew quoted from the Old Testament, "And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.  
And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart.”  I do not see this as “a commandment” rather I understand this as being more like a promise of a blessing.

Or Don’s quote from the New Testament, "But when the Holy Spirit controls our lives, He will produce this kind of fruit in us--love, that is, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control (Galatians 5:22)."

And, “Paul implies here that we are incapable of PUL from our own efforts. Rather, through prayer and meditation, we must commune with the Holy Spirit, so that the Spirit can manifest these qualities through us, qualities that break PUL down into its component parts.”  

This is not something that we do, this too is automatically given or to say this in another way, once the divine essence within is flowing freely through us, we cannot help but produce these qualities or the “fruit of the spirit” because that simply is who we are or the stuff that we are made of.  Once we realize and experience this… as Albert so beautifully describes,

“When I've experienced divine love I've felt like I was in touch with the most precious and beautiful thing I've ever been in touch with, even though I didn't see anything. I didn't wave my fist at this presence and shout, "I'm your equal!" I felt too much gratitude, humility, reverence, appreciation; loyalty and love towards it to even consider such a way of thinking. I guess you could call the presence I was in touch with "God."

We think that these spiritual experiences are few and far between, but they need not be.  It is only a matter of letting go of our fearful beliefs that cause us to distort and block the influx of the Divine essence into our physical being.  

As Juditha said, “God is PUL within us.”  To experience this automatically is to go through the process of letting go of our fears and insecurities, and then, perhaps even suddenly, a great healing takes place and we truly are born anew.  And what is even more amazing is that we realize that the Divine was there within us all along.

Love, Kathy

Beautifully said/written Kathy.  

Thank you for your support everybody. : :D

I feel uncomfortable about getting back to Seth when everybody is talking about divine love, but I need to correct someting I wrote. When I spoke about how he put down Jesus' love your neighbor as yourself phrase, I quoted parts of the Sermon of the mount when other parts of the gospels were involved.

On page 414 of "A nature of a personal reality" Seth states: "The very term, "Love your neighbor as yourself, " was an ironic statement, for in that society no man loved his neighbor, but distrusted him heartily. Much of Christ's humor has been lost, therefore." The book references Matthew 19:19 and Mark 12:31.

The below is from Matthew:
18 He (a disciple) saith unto him (Jesus), Which (commandments one should keep)? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultry, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shall not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother; and, THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF.

If as Seth suggests Jesus was just making a joke when he said "thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself," does this mean that he was also joking when he said the other above commandments?

Or did Jesus mean the first five commandments, but decided to throw in a joke at the end even though he was answering which commandments are important?'

Or did Seth show that he has deception in mind and can't be trusted?


Below is from Mark:
28 A scribe asked: Which is the first commandment of all?
29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
30 And thou shalt love the Lord the God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment.
31 And the second is like, namely this: THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOR AS THYSELF. There is none other commandment greater than these.
32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said the truth: for there is one God; and ther is none other but he:
33 And to love him with all the heart, and with the understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and to love his neighbor as himself, is more than all whole burnt offerings and sacrifices.
34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly, he said unto him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God.

I believe it is easy to see that Seth is "completely" wrong with his intentional misinterpretation of Jesus' famous quote.

"So what! some might say. "He still has some good information." If a person went around saying false and derogatory things about somebody who is close to you, would you invite this person into your house to give you piano lessons, or out of respect for the person you love, WOULD YOU FIND ANOTHER TEACHER, or teach yourself?

  I largely agree with you Recoverer, and i think there is a very good reason of why Yeshua warned us and his disples about our age, and its very corrupt and illusion filled nature where many would come proclaiming themselves as teachers or even Christs, and said that the best way to discern the false teachers from the real and helpful is by their fruits.  

 Now, other than doing channeled readings, what did Roberts do for others?  Or the lady who channels Elias, she sure charges enough money but how does she give back?  Look at how Roberts ended up and her emotional/mental state.

 But more generally speaking, everything is energy and information (in the form of unique vibratory patterns relative to other vibratory patterns), a book a person picks up is energy in "disguise".   Energy, especially in the form of other consciousnesses, has a more powerful and often largely unconscious affect on us than we might consciously realize. There is much going on below the surface at a subconscious level, and everything literally affects everything else, especially Souls affecting Souls.  

 If for example, Seth is a real nonphysical Consciousness and not a created thoughtform from Roberts and Co, then when you read one of their books, that books acts as a tuning in device to the energy and consciousness of "Seth".  

 Be careful and wise about what you choose to tune into, and allow yourself to be affected by.   Would you knowingly put harmful toxins or poisons in your body?   Most sane people wouldn't do that unless they are already addicted to a negative substance or energy to begin with (like cigarrettes and smoking), and so why would we do that on a mental, emotional and spiritual energy level?  Maybe on some level that we're not aware of, we still believe we "deserve" that, and so while consciously we may think we are freeing ourselves by reading such material, we're really only keeping the ego alive.  

 Even before i read or knew of Seth's derogatory statements about Christ and the denial of not only his death, but his resurrection, just picking up the book and reading a little, i got "bad vibes" from it.    I repeat, it was not a conscious thing where my conscious belief systems clearly differed from or conflicted with what Seth was teaching.   On an intellectual level, i found some of what i read to be interesting and "novel" in some ways.  

 But on a Heart level, i felt darkness, a subtle form of negativity and manipulation, and thought that such a reaction was a clear indication to stay away from that material however intellectually interesting it might be at first glance.   Whatever Seth is or comes from, to me it comes more from ego than not, and thus keeps ego alive, for like always attracts and begets like.  

 When i picked up Bruce's books, Rosie's books, Monroe's latter books, i got "good vibes" from them, and at the same time they were also intellectually interesting.  

 But at the same time, i also think that we choose to have experiences with negative or even misleading conditions, consciousnesses, etc. for deeper reasons too at times.  

 So, its not black and white, and even if Seth is a deliberately misleading consciousness (which he very much is regarding the guide of guides Yeshua), then while i would think that it would be wise in general for people to stay away from him and his teachings and energy, realistically speaking there may be something there which may teach them something about themselves or about life in general even if it means being mislead or what not temporarily.  

 We have negative, misleading, and painful experiences for ultimately good reasons, usually, i believe.    It's good and noble to want people to not have to go through any such things, but from a more expanded spiritual viewpoint, its not realistic or even completely desirable.  

 Sometimes the child needs to touch the hot stove to learn better or to learn something about self, to simplify it.   Sounds harsh, but its so often true when considering humans and our commonly rather stubborn nature as a species.  

 And, no one person, nonphysical consciousness, book, etc. is all negative.   There is wisdom and good things to glean or pick up, from Seth or any other person.  Again, we just need to learn how to discriminate and balance the right brain (the acceptance, and all is good part of us) with the left brain part of us which sees the individual affects, reactions, or relativity of things.   All in all, balance is more important.

 But relativity again, if something is more toxic and harmful than not, usually its best to just completely leave it alone.  

Excellent points Ahso:

I've tuned into a dark vibe a few times while reading Seth. I can't say for certain why. Like you, ACIM used to cause me to click out in an unpleasant way. These books don't have this effect on me now. Perhaps I'm spiritually stronger now. Or perhaps it is a matter of not reading them for an extended period of time.

If a person has Seth on the mind too much, this is the type of energy they are likely to attract to themselves. People should be careful about the kind of energy they attract to themselves. If they are overly prone to make excuses for the likes of Seth, perhaps they are being effected more than they realize. I believe I made some good points against Seth on this thread and other threads. A couple of people tripped all over themselves trying to come up with excuses for him. Remember, you create your own reality. ;)

recoverer,

I am not sure at this point if you think I was being nonsupportive of you. I did not, do not, agree with you, but still support you on whichever path you follow.

As to the quote you cited, it was readily apparent of the irony of the statement and not from the point of view of discrediting Jesus, but from the standpoint that in a culture of the time, Jesus understood the basic premise that we view the outside word through the filters of our own experience and being and that if we are truly to love our neighbors like ourselves, we must first love ourselves. If we are not open to love, we cannot receive it nor offer it. If we cannot trust ourselves, how do we trust others. That is the irony, that we must first grow internally and spirtually and then to reflect that inward radiance outward to view the world and treat them as honestly as we treat ourselves.

Obviously, language is open to interpretation. Again, mine is true for me, but I do speak for anyone else.

E.
[smiley=engel017.gif]

Eternal Essence:

Perhaps you're too into Seth to understand what he's getting at. I believe what I posted above makes things quite clear for those who "want" to see. I don't buy your "rationalization/justification" for what he says for one second. If a person is prone to rationalize and justify to the extent you do so, I don't see how he or she can possibly discriminate what somebody like Seth is about.

I'm well familiar with Cult like mentalities. People will go to great extremes when they have been taken in by a cult. Here is an example. A guru named Swani Muktananda used have young pretty girls stay in an ashram room that was close to his. That way he could easilly have sex with them. When he was with them he would stay inside of them for an hour. Some followers justified his actions by claiming that he was sharing shakti (divine energy) with them.



EternalEssence wrote on Apr 25^th, 2007 at 10:40pm:

recoverer, I am not sure at this point if you think I was being nonsupportive of you. I did not, do not, agree with you, but still support you on whichever path you follow. As to the quote you cited, it was readily apparent of the irony of the statement and not from the point of view of discrediting Jesus, but from the standpoint that in a culture of the time, Jesus understood the basic premise that we view the outside word through the filters of our own experience and being and that if we are truly to love our neighbors like ourselves, we must first love ourselves. If we are not open to love, we cannot receive it nor offer it. If we cannot trust ourselves, how do we trust others. That is the irony, that we must first grow internally and spirtually and then to reflect that inward radiance outward to view the world and treat them as honestly as we treat ourselves. Obviously, language is open to interpretation. Again, mine is true for me, but I do speak for anyone else. E. [smiley=engel017.gif]

Recoverer,

The only personal rationalizing and justifying is you -- your very need to post the above topic suggests that you are out for your own agenda and seeking support. The fact that you allowed yourself to be victimized by cult-like mentalities is your issue, not mine. You can post all the examples you want, but, in the end, you come across as the very type of guru you seek to exorcise.

You can rant or rave about the problems of society, about the confines of the intellect, the justification of what you believe to be the only way to see the world. Many like you have come and gone and those slightly more extreme than you have forced people to seek the gurus. The only theme that radiates through in 99.9% of your posts is that you are outraged by being duped and feel it necessary to tell others they are being duped as well and to rally against the demons in your head, manifested in whatever way you choose at the moment. Deal with your issues, deal with your past, but do not expect me to sympathize, because I will not feed into your insecurities for the sake of providing a soapbox.

So ended this 26th day of April, 2007.

E.
[smiley=engel017.gif]

Thank you Eternal Essence. :)

Let each person decide for his or her self.

On your last comment, recoverer, we both agree.

Also, you are most welcome.  :)

E.
[smiley=engel017.gif]

False gurus and channels usually get their comeuppance.  Not my rule, by the rule of Karma.



Doc

Regarding agendas, my agenda is to not sit on my hands when people promote sources of information that purposely try to misrepresent Christ.

Perhaps some do what they do, even while they are right in the middle of their comeuppance. They keep digging their own hole deeper and deeper.



DocM wrote on Apr 26^th, 2007 at 2:24pm:

False gurus and channels usually get their comeuppance.  Not my rule, by the rule of Karma. Doc

I think Don's remarks are to the point, since they not only raise the issue of "what is divine" but also "how do we go after it", the issue of dedication. Our capabilities become important in this, as does our motivation.

As both Paul, and Shin Budhism, have taught, we are all of us imperfect - in proof, we have to be here where we have to solve problems. That doesn't mean that we are doomed, nor does it mean that we won't evolve, but simply that what we have here and now is all we've got. Evdently, the best we can do is to do what we know best.

If I wish to go to bed and start off toward the kitchen, I'm not likely to get my wish. I have to focus in the proper direction. I'd like to have a nice eternity. So I focus on my idea of what God is like. It might not be divine to anyone else, but it's the best I can see, so I go for it. And, as we can see, this is not always a correct choioce - maybe I have a cot by the stove tonight whle the bedroom is being repainted - Oooops.

Seth is out of the Egyptian tradition, and is the trickster spirit who persuaded Osiris to get killed and chopped up (I forget the details). My guess, whether it happens to be Jane Roberts' idea of the divine or not, is that Seth is a spirit who is using his mount (Jane) to further his own interests. To the degree that Seth can stir up a response in the world, it serves to further his nature. That's how entities exist (ask one) - they identify with some part of a person's thoughts and then create tendencies to do certain things - and to find a mount who would spread his thoughts like gospel seems like a major blessing for Seth.

What was that Juditha wanted to do - something like fold, spindle and mutilate him? That sounds appropriate somehow, but in all fairness, we must remember that the Inquisition was brought about by people who were dedicated to the "divine" as they saw it. Folding, spindling and mutilation , or whatever, aren't precisely the best we could do - or are they? :-]

dave

Hi  Dave     Sounds a good idea to fold spindle and mutilate Seth,but "go swivel"means the same as "get lost" in England,as this is what us english tell someone to do,if they get up our back,we just tell them to "Go swivel".

Love and God bless     Love Juditha

Shirley said: After all, what is a prophet, if not a channeler of material?

One other thing.  Jesus (according to the bible) never asked to be revered/worshipped..in fact, he pointed to one greater than himself..
____

good point Shirley.  Yes he did, he said I and the father are one. now that's one phrase I don't think they messed up too badly. if we could see ourselves as divine also, we would not feel so separated from our good and from each other.

it will always be to each his own and human nature is to kill what you love. why? I know, I watch TV and listen to love songs. I read about human nature.

we have to learn to control animal passions and reach to the divine from whence we started and where we will return.  the ironic thing here is nobody sees JC was also a man who overcame his passions with perfect love.
nobody has gotten to perfect love yet, but we sure got the logic part down. :D  hang in there, perfect love means we will start doing miracles right and left and hardly even think twice about it.

it's exciting. I'm ready!