Pope says hell and damnation are real and eternalBy Richard Owen in Rome
March 28, 2007 12:00am
-

HELL is a place where sinners really do burn in an everlasting fire, and not just a religious symbol designed to galvanise the faithful, Pope Benedict XVI has said.

Addressing a parish gathering in a northern suburb of Rome, the Pope said that in the modern world many people, including some believers, had forgotten that if they failed to "admit blame and promise to sin no more", they risked "eternal damnation - the inferno".

Hell "really exists and is eternal, even if nobody talks about it much any more".

The Pope, who as cardinal Joseph Ratzinger was head of Catholic doctrine, noted that "forgiveness of sins" for those who repented was a cornerstone of Christian belief.

He recalled that Jesus had forgiven the "woman taken in adultery" and prevented her from being stoned to death, observing: "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

God had given men and women free will to choose whether "spontaneously to accept salvation...the Christian faith is not imposed on anyone, it is a gift, an offer to mankind".

Vatican officials said the Pope - who is also the Bishop of Rome - had been speaking in "straightforward" language "like a parish priest".

He had wanted to reinforce the new Catholic catechism, which holds that hell is a "state of eternal separation from God", to be understood "symbolically rather than physically".

Agostino Paravicini Bagliani, a church historian, said the Pope was "right to remind us that hell is not something to be put on one side" as an inconvenient or embarrassing aspect of belief.

It was described by St Matthew as a place of "everlasting fire" (Matthew xxv, 41).

"The problem is not only that our sense of sin has declined, but also that the world wars and totalitarianisms of the 20th century created a hell on earth as bad as anything we can imagine in the afterlife," Professor Bagliani said.

In 1999, pope John Paul II said heaven was "neither an abstraction nor a physical place in the clouds, but that fullness of communion with God, which is the goal of human life".

Hell, by contrast, was "the ultimate consequence of sin itself. Rather than a place, hell indicates the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God, the source of all life and joy".

In October, the Pope indicated that limbo, supposed since medieval times to be a "halfway house" between heaven and hell, was "only a theological hypothesis" and not a "definitive truth of the faith".

yeah in the category "blasphemy against the holy spirit can't be forgiven...

Is this how you make the blueprint for a BST?

Do you believe this Doc? George

George,

No, the views expressed here are not my own.  I don't believe in eternal fire.  I believe in the expression "as above, so below."  Since we are in constant evolution and flux here on earth, since we are never unchanging and static, I don't believe in an afterlife scenario that is "eternal."  If my thought can evolve and change, everything else follows.  Either here or in a spiritual plane.

Don and others have talked of evidence of retrievals in christian doctrine.  We see retrievals here on this message board and in other places.  

I'm Jewish by upbringing, and would not presume to speak for the Pope, but I believe his main message was to make people aware that there is an afterlife, and that if one uses one's own thought to distance oneself from PUL and God, that there are consequences in the afterlife.  Many "live for the moment, throw caution to the wind," people laugh when you mention that their uncaring or irresponsible actions may impact their consciousness after death.  I think this is a reminder for people that equivalents of heaven and hell in consciousness do exist.


Matthew

What a sad and horrible thing to believe.

That just ticks me off! God never created hell!! Get off your high horse almighty Pope...

Spreading the lies of eternal darnation and fire and brimstone hell!!! Causing people to live their lives scared that they may go to hell 4 ever!!

Why would God do such a thing.. Yea, your son sinned to much now he must rot in hell and never be able to see you again!!

I'm tired of Christians spreading the word that God is wrathful!! I'm never going to believe in an egotistical God like most Christians do! A God who is sadistic and loves revenge...

peace

DaBears wrote on Mar 28^th, 2007 at 8:39pm:

That just ticks me off! God never created hell!! Get off your high horse almighty Pope... Spreading the lies of eternal darnation and fire and brimstone hell!!! Causing people to live their lives scared that they may go to hell 4 ever!! Why would God do such a thing.. Yea, your son sinned to much now he must rot in hell and never be able to see you again!! I'm tired of Christians spreading the word that God is wrathful!! I'm never going to believe in an egotistical God like most Christians do! A God who is sadistic and loves revenge... peace

You need to take a step back and view things like this objectively, yes religion has its flaws but it also has a lot of positives, for a lot of people it provides faith and hope and belief that they cant find anywhere else, while you may not agree with the message they send and consider it wrong, not everyone else does. As for the Hell thing well it just helps reinforce peoples own moral compass so if a few extra christians each year dont kill someone because they are afraid of the eternal fires of damnation then fair play.

Pope says hell and damnation are real and eternalBy Richard Owen in Rome
March 28, 2007 12:00am
-

HELL is a place where sinners really do burn in an everlasting fire, and not just a religious symbol designed to galvanise the faithful, Pope Benedict XVI has said.

Addressing a parish gathering in a northern suburb of Rome, the Pope said that in the modern world many people, including some believers, had forgotten that if they failed to "admit blame and promise to sin no more", they risked "eternal damnation - the inferno".

Hell "really exists and is eternal, even if nobody talks about it much any more".

The Pope, who as cardinal Joseph Ratzinger was head of Catholic doctrine, noted that "forgiveness of sins" for those who repented was a cornerstone of Christian belief.

He recalled that Jesus had forgiven the "woman taken in adultery" and prevented her from being stoned to death, observing: "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."

God had given men and women free will to choose whether "spontaneously to accept salvation...the Christian faith is not imposed on anyone, it is a gift, an offer to mankind".

Vatican officials said the Pope - who is also the Bishop of Rome - had been speaking in "straightforward" language "like a parish priest".

He had wanted to reinforce the new Catholic catechism, which holds that hell is a "state of eternal separation from God", to be understood "symbolically rather than physically".

Agostino Paravicini Bagliani, a church historian, said the Pope was "right to remind us that hell is not something to be put on one side" as an inconvenient or embarrassing aspect of belief.

It was described by St Matthew as a place of "everlasting fire" (Matthew xxv, 41).

"The problem is not only that our sense of sin has declined, but also that the world wars and totalitarianisms of the 20th century created a hell on earth as bad as anything we can imagine in the afterlife," Professor Bagliani said.

In 1999, pope John Paul II said heaven was "neither an abstraction nor a physical place in the clouds, but that fullness of communion with God, which is the goal of human life".

Hell, by contrast, was "the ultimate consequence of sin itself. Rather than a place, hell indicates the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God, the source of all life and joy".

In October, the Pope indicated that limbo, supposed since medieval times to be a "halfway house" between heaven and hell, was "only a theological hypothesis" and not a "definitive truth of the faith".
*****************
Well, if Pope Rat is right, then this universe DEFINITELY sucks a big,
hairy, sh!t-encrusted a$$hole, Doc.
However, I think it is a fair guess, that Mr. Hitler Youth and head of the (renamed) Office of the Inquisition (Ratzinger/Benedict VXI) is
wrong about the nature of Reality. (And if he's right, at least I've done a NOBLE thing, by opposing a pig-f***er of a "god" who we'd be COMPLETELY justified in trying to KILL with an interdimensional nuke or whatever, if he/it DID exist.) "His Holy and Perfect Justice", MY A$$!!!!! If he/it exists, he/it is a SADIST, and is EVIL! Like a little boy who pulls wings off of flies, but in this case it is an "infinitely wise being"  (WTF is wisdom, then..?) who likes to pull wings off of flies. And this being, deserves RESPECT, much less worship? GIVE ME A BREAK..!
To "worship" (i.e., GROVEL) before such a being, would be rank COWARDICE. No other word describes it.
(But then, what is SPIRITUALITY, but a form of cowardice? FEAR OF DEATH, nothing more and nothing less. Think long and hard about THAT one, folks..!)
I HEREBY RESTATE, MY ETERNAL HATRED OF... ENMITY TOWARD... AND DECLARATION OF WAR AGAINST "YAHWEH", THE VILE JEWISH TRIBAL GOD.
Not because I believe in him/it, but because of the possibility - however remote - that he/it DOES exist.
I DIDN'T ASK TO BE CREATED.
AND - how can ANYONE with a brain reply to me, "that doesn't matter!"
IT DOES MATTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
'Nuff said,

B-man

I do not believe what Popes say, in general.
Hell is not eternal. You can get there by accident.
And you can be rescued from there by prayer.
We have cases of this on record.

Who created what, is in general, unknown.
But beliefs create some BSTs.

HA, HA, HA, HA, BURN IN HELL YOU SINNERS.  ;D...LONG LIVE THE POPE AND HIS NEW
APPRENTICE(WHO WILL BE MUCH MORE POWERFUL THAN HE)...DARTH. MAY BOTH SIDES
OF THE FORCE BE WITH YOU 8-)

AH1976 wrote on Mar 28^th, 2007 at 9:05pm:

DaBears wrote on Mar 28th, 2007 at 8:39pm: That just ticks me off! God never created hell!! Get off your high horse almighty Pope... Spreading the lies of eternal darnation and fire and brimstone hell!!! Causing people to live their lives scared that they may go to hell 4 ever!! Why would God do such a thing.. Yea, your son sinned to much now he must rot in hell and never be able to see you again!! I'm tired of Christians spreading the word that God is wrathful!! I'm never going to believe in an egotistical God like most Christians do! A God who is sadistic and loves revenge... peace You need to take a step back and view things like this objectively, yes religion has its flaws but it also has a lot of positives, for a lot of people it provides faith and hope and belief that they cant find anywhere else, while you may not agree with the message they send and consider it wrong, not everyone else does. As for the Hell thing well it just helps reinforce peoples own moral compass so if a few extra christians each year dont kill someone because they are afraid of the eternal fires of damnation then fair play.

i know it has it's positives as well.. But it mainly has more flaws.. It preaches more about fear than love.. Also, about the whole moral issue.. Tribes in the jungles still live very moral lives and they don't believe in hell..

peace

Darth Benedict wrote on Mar 29^th, 2007 at 12:33am:

HA, HA, HA, HA, BURN IN HELL YOU SINNERS.  ;D...LONG LIVE THE POPE AND HIS NEW APPRENTICE(WHO WILL BE MUCH MORE POWERFUL THAN HE)...DARTH. MAY BOTH SIDES OF THE FORCE BE WITH YOU 8-)

Your picture cracks me up! lol

If the pope had seen what I have seen and heard,I think he would have a diffenerent tune.The god that I know is love.2 wrong do not make a right.George.

george stone wrote on Mar 29^th, 2007 at 1:06am:

If the pope had seen what I have seen and heard,I think he would have a diffenerent tune.The god that I know is love.2 wrong do not make a right.George.

Exactly, the Pope is a moron!

Hi Matthew


 The Pope speaks out about Hell and Heaven
Mar 27th, 2007, 7:39pm    Pope says hell and darnation are real and eternalBy Richard Owen in Rome
March 28, 2007 12:00am
-
 
HELL is a place where sinners really do burn in an everlasting fire, and not just a religious symbol designed to galvanise the faithful, Pope Benedict XVI has said.

Addressing a parish gathering in a northern suburb of Rome, the Pope said that in the modern world many people, including some believers, had forgotten that if they failed to "admit blame and promise to sin no more", they risked "eternal darnation - the inferno".  

Hell "really exists and is eternal, even if nobody talks about it much any more

This is  wrong completely about the  love of God,hell is a manmade world ,mans own creation




The Pope, who as cardinal Joseph Ratzinger was head of Catholic doctrine, noted that "forgiveness of sins" for those who repented was a cornerstone of Christian belief.  

He recalled that Jesus had forgiven the "woman taken in adultery" and prevented her from being stoned to death, observing: "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her."  

God had given men and women free will to choose whether "spontaneously to accept salvation...the Christian faith is not imposed on anyone, it is a gift, an offer to mankind".

This is right  about the love of God,as God knows we are not perfect.

Love and God bless      Love Juditha

I disagree with this. I believe that hell is a state of mind and/or body and/or spirit which can can have a multitude of causes and that humans do not always create their own hells.  Nor do I believe forgiveness is an automatic requirement to be released from any or all hells.

I think popes might take off their heavy robes and ornaments and sit with the common people as Jesus did. Those who wish to lead others to Truth might be trusted more from a posture of humility.

I do not recommend believing those who sit on thrones of any kind.

love, blink  :)

----------------

DocM wrote on Mar 27^th, 2007 at 9:39pm:

Pope says hell and damnation are real and eternalBy Richard Owen in Rome March 28, 2007 12:00am - HELL is a place where sinners really do burn in an everlasting fire, and not just a religious symbol designed to galvanise the faithful, Pope Benedict XVI has said. Addressing a parish gathering in a northern suburb of Rome, the Pope said that in the modern world many people, including some believers, had forgotten that if they failed to "admit blame and promise to sin no more", they risked "eternal damnation - the inferno". Hell "really exists and is eternal, even if nobody talks about it much any more". The Pope, who as cardinal Joseph Ratzinger was head of Catholic doctrine, noted that "forgiveness of sins" for those who repented was a cornerstone of Christian belief. He recalled that Jesus had forgiven the "woman taken in adultery" and prevented her from being stoned to death, observing: "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." God had given men and women free will to choose whether "spontaneously to accept salvation...the Christian faith is not imposed on anyone, it is a gift, an offer to mankind". Vatican officials said the Pope - who is also the Bishop of Rome - had been speaking in "straightforward" language "like a parish priest". He had wanted to reinforce the new Catholic catechism, which holds that hell is a "state of eternal separation from God", to be understood "symbolically rather than physically". Agostino Paravicini Bagliani, a church historian, said the Pope was "right to remind us that hell is not something to be put on one side" as an inconvenient or embarrassing aspect of belief. It was described by St Matthew as a place of "everlasting fire" (Matthew xxv, 41). "The problem is not only that our sense of sin has declined, but also that the world wars and totalitarianisms of the 20th century created a hell on earth as bad as anything we can imagine in the afterlife," Professor Bagliani said. In 1999, pope John Paul II said heaven was "neither an abstraction nor a physical place in the clouds, but that fullness of communion with God, which is the goal of human life". Hell, by contrast, was "the ultimate consequence of sin itself. Rather than a place, hell indicates the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God, the source of all life and joy". In October, the Pope indicated that limbo, supposed since medieval times to be a "halfway house" between heaven and hell, was "only a theological hypothesis" and not a "definitive truth of the faith".

wrote on Mar 29^th, 2007 at 4:21pm:

I disagree with this. I believe that hell is a state of mind and/or body and/or spirit which can can have a multitude of causes and that humans do not always create their own hells.  Nor do I believe forgiveness is an automatic requirement to be released from any or all hells. I think popes might take off their heavy robes and ornaments and sit with the common people as Jesus did. Those who wish to lead others to Truth might be trusted more from a posture of humility. I do not recommend believing those who sit on thrones of any kind. love, blink  :) ---------------- DocM wrote on Mar 27th, 2007 at 9:39pm: Pope says hell and damnation are real and eternalBy Richard Owen in Rome March 28, 2007 12:00am - HELL is a place where sinners really do burn in an everlasting fire, and not just a religious symbol designed to galvanise the faithful, Pope Benedict XVI has said. Addressing a parish gathering in a northern suburb of Rome, the Pope said that in the modern world many people, including some believers, had forgotten that if they failed to "admit blame and promise to sin no more", they risked "eternal damnation - the inferno". Hell "really exists and is eternal, even if nobody talks about it much any more". The Pope, who as cardinal Joseph Ratzinger was head of Catholic doctrine, noted that "forgiveness of sins" for those who repented was a cornerstone of Christian belief. He recalled that Jesus had forgiven the "woman taken in adultery" and prevented her from being stoned to death, observing: "He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her." God had given men and women free will to choose whether "spontaneously to accept salvation...the Christian faith is not imposed on anyone, it is a gift, an offer to mankind". Vatican officials said the Pope - who is also the Bishop of Rome - had been speaking in "straightforward" language "like a parish priest". He had wanted to reinforce the new Catholic catechism, which holds that hell is a "state of eternal separation from God", to be understood "symbolically rather than physically". Agostino Paravicini Bagliani, a church historian, said the Pope was "right to remind us that hell is not something to be put on one side" as an inconvenient or embarrassing aspect of belief. It was described by St Matthew as a place of "everlasting fire" (Matthew xxv, 41). "The problem is not only that our sense of sin has declined, but also that the world wars and totalitarianisms of the 20th century created a hell on earth as bad as anything we can imagine in the afterlife," Professor Bagliani said. In 1999, pope John Paul II said heaven was "neither an abstraction nor a physical place in the clouds, but that fullness of communion with God, which is the goal of human life". Hell, by contrast, was "the ultimate consequence of sin itself. Rather than a place, hell indicates the state of those who freely and definitively separate themselves from God, the source of all life and joy". In October, the Pope indicated that limbo, supposed since medieval times to be a "halfway house" between heaven and hell, was "only a theological hypothesis" and not a "definitive truth of the faith".

I totatly agree, with your statement.. peace

Couldn't resist this -
http://dos-centavos.blogspot.com/2005/08/new-german-pope-is-making-some-changes.html

Just a sggestion (but based on reports from past life work) - Heaven is the eternal place of joy and bliss where we merge into God - the Ultimate Holy Commnion, and Hell is the eternal place of regrest, suffering and discomfort where we are separated from God.  

Those who reject everything except their own ego and pride seem to go into a hell-state in which they are separated ferom God - by their own self-definition.  Those who later get the message (sch as when Jesus "descended into hell" cease to separate themselves from God, and thus nolonger are loguically bound to the hell states, but cn start going heavenwards.

Those in heaven, even the upper astral, since that's the usual next level up, can continue upwards to merger, or, as with most of us, become subject to personal desires, recollections of the fun of having a body, and essentially talk themselves out of heaven and back to rebirth.

It seems that God created these as sort of logical extremes - just as white implies an alternative blackness for those who won't accept whiteness, and that they are more or less a way of looking at the extremes into which people can put themselves - and with many levels, as in Dante's Inferno, depending upon how many different kinds of ways we have merged into the God-Oneness or to the degree that we insist on rejecting God and Oneness and replacing it with pride, self aggrandizement, puffed up egotism etc .  

I might have it wrong, but it seems to me that this is actually how it works. I used to be a hippie and discovered that if I was willing to reject everything and everybody, I'd go into some pretty ugly places - commonly called a "bad LSD trip". (50 years ago.) Then, if I'd repent of my arrogance, abandon hatred, accept love and trade in my ego for a willingness to share in the global Unity, I'd usually go into a blissful state. Better yet, I could stay there as long as I could maintain the attitude.  - But usually I'd fall back because I'm really a self-center ed SOB at heart, and it has taken decades to advance even to this level.

Alpert reported a (double blind - LSD or Vit B used as placebo)  LSD experiment back in the 1940's at a Catholic seminary led to two kinds of reports, "I think I might feel something" as opposed to "I see God!".

I suggest that the solution might be for the Pope to take a little LSD, and to recall the old college toast:

Here's to Hell, and may our stay there
Be as pleasant as our way there.

dave