The Message is Peace
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v323/spiritvideo/Alysia/myspace2/PrayMan.gif
ACIM, (a Course In Miracles) is  self teaching device of which the first affirmation in the daily lesson plan is “I want only peace of mind.”

Came I day I grabbed unto that affirmation like a drowning person in the desert. I admitted it was the priority after all. If I don’t have peace of mind, now after more than 20 years of following it’s teachings, then I’d like somebody to come along and show me why I don’t have it, because it sure feels like peace to me. Sort of a happy feeling. I wake up with a smile on my face. Where have I been? Someplace happy.

It’s simplicity and poetry at it’s best but it has to be lived out. The Course says we have two voices inside of us. Sound familiar? Remember we live in a duality world, so that’s not hard to understand.
 The first voice that speak in your mind is always the ego. The ego will say things like “I know the way for you to follow, or you are right, you know, or you are smarter, better, lovelier, larger, whatever, your dog is more vicious than mine,” etc etc etc and the wheels keep turning.

The other voice speaks for the holy spirit, the voice for goodness, the voice for god, the voice of love. It offers you another choice as we always have a choice how we shall react to the slings and arrows of life, whether we will have our peace of mind taken from us, or whether we will give our peace or piece, away before it can be stolen because we know there's more peace where it came from. We can never run dry of what we give away.
  The ego will attempt to gain power over others for it’s own self satisfaction. It does not know what peace of mind is and does not offer peace to others, nor to you. The ego can be insructed in correct thinking patterns but it cannot be thrust from you, and it’s not something you have to beat up; it just needs training, like any animal would need training to serve man.
  As I said, after more than 20 years of trying to get rid of my ego according to some eastern teachings, I’ve finally learned to live with it comfortably and still have peace of mind and I automatically know which voice I'm listening to.

This issue of two voices in our heads is what produces a conflicted state of mind. If you would have peace of mind, you would have to learn how to not be conflicted about anything in order to have a greater degree of peaceful co-existence with all others on this planet. This is why training of the ego thought pattern is necessary to think correctly and perceive correctly any given situation you come across as well as issues you may have buried in the past should be addressed for resolution.

Here’s some ideas of what I’ve learned through reading ACIM:
1) Not everybody loves me, but they don’t necessarily hate me either; what others do is use your mind as a mirror into their own mind; we reflect each other this way, in a oneness concept; we utilize each other to grow in understanding. Sometimes what they see in you, is something in themselves they wish to disown, you’re pointing it out is like a seed thought which sprouts the truth later on. And of course we do this to each other and we call it getting into a reality space because we are all learning things.
2) Suffering has another side to it. It can make you a more compassionate and understanding person to have suffered through your ego fallacies and then come out on the other side to see we are all equally loved and equally valuable in the sight of whatever let us come here to live.
3) Recognizing another’s value acts to enhance your own value leading to peace of mind.
4) Anger can turn into a passion for the truth of our being, the will to express love, but anger must be looked at closely to see where it comes from; the ego, or HS. It is injurious if coming from the former voice, and healing if coming from HS, you will be held responsible if you injure another through the voice of the ego, you will convict yourself.
5) What goes around comes around. If you’re constantly giving, it comes back to you, not always from the place that you made your deposit, but in unexpected ways, what you give comes back. And there’s never a shortage of either love or peace once you get plugged into the voice for HS.
6) Every person is a part of god. If you can’t find the god in them you learn to train the ego to question this. You ask for what you want to see, then you release your desire to the knowing you have just spoken the word, just like JC did. Whenever you speak the word, it will happen, like I said sometimes in the most unexpected circumstances you will see what you missed the first time. My favorite ACIM affirmation which has never failed me in times of difficulty to understand is: “I wish to see this differently.”
Then be quiet as long as you need to be and you will surely see a new slant on an old question which will free your soul once more to fly to peace, your heritage, and delivered in gracefulness and forgiveness.

Thanks. That was good.

Love,
Rob

Quote:

The first voice that speak in your mind is always the ego. The ego will say things like “I know the way for you to follow, or you are right, you know, or you are smarter, better, lovelier, larger, whatever, your dog is more vicious than mine,” etc etc etc and the wheels keep turning. The other voice speaks for the holy spirit, the voice for goodness, the voice for god, the voice of love.

I don't agree with this Alysia.  There is only one voice (which is the ego) hearing two voices is a sign of possession in my opinion and not healthy.  

I think the two voices are metaphorical not literal.  It's like listening to our physically focused minds concerned with the day's hassles and worries versus listening to a deeper level like our hearts or spirits.  I think in Monroe's first book he talked about going through the process of relaxing his mind.  Often at first the days events would replay themselves but if he let it go, then he could go on and shift the focus of his mind.

Hi Alysia-

Yes, ACIM is a beautiful book.  Almost every page is filled with powerful prose and uplifting language.  I personally am convinced it was not, and could not have been, written by a human being unless so directed by a higher force.  Whether it was written by Jesus is something I cannot affirm.  I just don't know.  But that's probably not relevant in any case.

One thing that continues to bother me, however, is that I have yet to hear an explanation as to why we separated from God in the first place.  I corresponded with the author of The Disappearance of the Universe (based on ACIM), but he was not able to adequately explain this.

For those who haven't read the book, it goes something like this- there was a "time" when we and God were One.  But at some point, because of some "mad" or insane idea we had, we made the decision to separate from Him (altho in some sense we really never did separate, but that's another mystery!).  Our job is to repair this separation and rejoin God, and the book gives many pointers and lessons in terms of how to do this.

The reason this doesn't compute for me is that in other parts of the book, we are told that God is Perfect, and therefore is incapable of creating anything that is less than perfect.  Obviously therefore He could not have created our bodies or even the earth, because our bodies eventually die and decay and the earth someday will also be destroyed.  What God creates is both perfect and eternal.

Ok so far.  The problem arises because if God created us, we too must be perfect.  At least our spiritual being...our real self....must be perfect.  So the question arises, how did we, as perfect beings, make such an imperfect (actually disastrous) decision to separate from Him in the first place and create this planet with all of its snares and delusions?  A perfect being should be, by definition, incapable of such a monumental mistake.

That is the dilemma.  I would love for an explanation.  We can't have it both ways.  

I know, I know, it's my ego talking!  And my ego is always wrong.  But for me, if my ego is satisfied with an explanation that makes sense to it, then the rest of me can progress.  If no explanation is forthcoming, then my darn ego puts up a STOP sign and I get gridlocked.

Augo:

There is divine will and there is ego based will. Divine will acts according to love and the wisdom of God, Christ and the holy spirit.  Ego will is self centered, ignorant and unloving. This might not compute if you translate ego like Rudolph Steiner does. The word ego is used in different ways.



augoeideian wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2007 at 6:03am:

Quote: The first voice that speak in your mind is always the ego. The ego will say things like “I know the way for you to follow, or you are right, you know, or you are smarter, better, lovelier, larger, whatever, your dog is more vicious than mine,” etc etc etc and the wheels keep turning. The other voice speaks for the holy spirit, the voice for goodness, the voice for god, the voice of love. I don't agree with this Alysia.  There is only one voice (which is the ego) hearing two voices is a sign of possession in my opinion and not healthy.

Rondele:

I agree that everything God creates is perfect, yet look at this World. While we're here we are free to act separate from God. Why exactly we've ended up doing so I can't say for certain. The best I can figure is that through us God explores the possibilites, and finds out what the creative part of himself is all about. As he explores through us, we are given the gift of life. As opposed to treating us like a bunch of puppets and providing us with prewritten programs of thought, he gives us the opportunity to find our own way. Doing so carries some risks, but how else can God give us the freedom to become unique souls who eventually find their way out of confusion, and reunite in perfect union with God and all of his other children in an eternal now?

Rondele

Yes that question bothers me too, though in a slightly different form. Why did we play the prodigal son?

I picked up Disappearance... about the same time I picked up the first Abraham-Hicks book, and they are still having an argument in my mind! Which way is it? Abraham is more like Seth: we are co-creators with All-That-Is in a joyful sort of way.

The other one is ...mysterious! We broke off from God to create and we created an unsolvable problem but God is perfect.

I really get stumped with the part about everything being created from the get-go...but made to look as though it is unfolding or evolving. That really makes the despair set in.

So if you are looking for the answer, you might not find it there. But maybe you will find Peace.

Alysia, the praying guy reminded me of omething I thought about a long time ago. I found a notecard in a bookstore...it was stunning. A reproduction of a painting (by someone in one of those Eastern Bloc countires that I get mixed up), it showed the villagers running out to see the miracle in the sky: a gorgeous bouquet of flowers (this was before Skittles ads too). It made me think about how extraordinary things from the sky are usually gloomily scary: lightning, tornadoes, errant airplanes, whatever. I prefer the bouquet.

Recoverer

Have you read Disappearance of the Universe? One of its strongest ideas is that God did not create the universe, we (our oversouls?) did.

Lucy:

No I haven't. I don't know if we can actually create independently of God. The creative energy with which we do so would come from him and no where else.

Howard Storm's book states that beings which live within the universe helped with the process of creation.  His book makes some statements which seem to indicate that the universe was created through Christ. This seems to go along with the Gospel According to John, I'm not certain.

Regarding oversouls/discs that sort of thing, as long as they live according to divine wisdom, love and will, they're okay with me.

ACIM might be speaking about our perception of things, rather than what actually happened. If two people sat in a room and one person saw things according to God's truth, while another person saw things according to his missperceptions, the first would be aware of his union with God, the other wouldn't.

 


Lucy wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2007 at 12:41pm:

Recoverer Have you read Disappearance of the Universe? One of its strongest ideas is that God did not create the universe, we (our oversouls?) did.

Lucy-

Actually the Disappearance book is just a knock-off of ACIM.  The author took all of the concepts and reformulated them to make the concept easier to explain and understand.

Frankly the two characters that he supposedly talked with are, as far as I am concerned, figments of his own imagination.  I don't for a second think they were real.  But they were an effective tool for getting his points across.  The fact that he supposedly destroyed all of his tapes that would have documented his conversations is a big tip off.  

I did some searches for Dissapearance of the Universe, and to tell you the truth I don't know if I want to use my time to try to discriminate yet another book. I can't just except blindly that Gary Renard is for real simply because he says a few flowery and "thought provoking" things.

One of the reviewers on Amazon.com stated that Renard wrote that we have to reincarnate over and over again until we forgive ourselves and wake up from the dream. I have doubts about this. My feeling is that most souls find out the entire truth when they are in the World of spirit, not while they are here in the physical. The reincarnate over and over again until liberated is an Eastern thing. I've found too many instances of gurus being fake, to accept their word on the matter.

All the Course is saying is we are all love at our core after we get clear of all our various belief systems, like racism, or I should say our distortions which we alone invent in this world and we alone are responsible in a collective sense for the wars that take place by our generated collective thought systems, which is the world.
therefore god did not create these imperfections we see around us. Like Albert said, we were given choices when we decided to become physical beings. this is our world, but we can bring in a better world through choosing to do that, one by one, by not seeing others as separate from us, it's a oneness concept, which love at our core, is an energy which unites people, while there are belief systems which act to divide people, as in a war situation, where the enemy is divided and conquered that way. This love energy, a PUL concept is intelligent. One thing I've noticed is my awareness expands, my left and right brain becomes more active in an expansion and enjoyment process also, so while PUL unites, brings together, it also expands. I think PUL is god. many have said love is god down through the ages. so I say nothing new.

god did not make a warring planet. we did. we can change the world.

The purpose of reading the book is to see how Renard presents his arguments. I don't buy into the ascended masters thing either but some of his approaches are interesting. Of course, Dave (I think) pointed out that the idea that we, not God, actually created the universe is in one of those old Eastern religions (wish I could find that old post because I forgot which religion). And it is said that Renard's ideas may come from Ken Wapnick's interpretation of the Course. It doesn't matter if Renard is for real if the point is to look at the ideas on their own merit.

(I have to admit I found the idea of a book that changes the life of someone in the future, who then makes a time trip back to inspire writing the book in our present, a good bit of writing...but what is time? Maybe it isn't just science fiction; maybe it could happen).

To be perfectly honest, I like Gary Renard's interpretation (on paper; don't know what he lives) of the Course better than some I've seen. I've seen people use it to glorify their interpretation of the Christ, one which I consider false, but which is culturally accepted.

So, anyway, there's the course advising me to look at my enemies as brothers in need of forgiveness (not always easy, especially with my temper) and saying that's the way to stop the madness in thr world, and then there's Abraham, teling me to glory in my ability to create, which I do whether I intend to or not. Can't decide which is correct.

Abraham has this discussion of Allowing that is intriguing. I have a difficult time thinking that things I don't like can exist without affecting me. I have a hard time Allowing.

Anyway, I am fascinated by the idea that we, not God, created the universe. We, a subset of God. OK this part of the story is difficult. But so is the idea that God created this world. What kind of weirdo god would create this world?

 Nice post Alysia.  

 I bought and read ACIM.   Had an odd energy reaction to it, it didn't matter if i started out with plenty of energy, often when i read it for anytime longer than say 10 minutes, i would start to get real tired and i would click out.  


 Anyways, in a more general vein, i believe that while God is perfect, and created perfect children, it also allowed for the children to create or more aptly manifest imperfection, true freewill in other words.  Also, maybe even God was experimenting somewhat in creating, and some who were originally created, perhaps weren't as perfect as they could have been?

Notice how i changed what i said, and said "more aptly manifest", this is because true creating is creating when aligned to Source.  This is eternal and joyful creating.  

 But as beings with freewill, some of us decided to try to create outside of God's way of creating and its very nature or beingness.   The results of this are more aptly called manifesting, and what we manifest is temporal and oft times manifests suffering within us, as well as out of us (in relation to the other children of God).

  It doesn't last, its has no real energy behind it, because the real energy behind true creation is love.    And when our manifesting lacks this real energy, these manifestations cannot be maintained in and of themselves.   They are as of dust, and to dust they return.  

 Not all of us originally separated from God at the same moment.   Many kept to the ways of Source, and in creating as a Co-Creator with same, emphasis on "Co", not just "self" as some psychically channeled beings would have us believe.  

 Some of those that originally separated, were created during the experiment part of Source's creating of individual freewilled Souls, and lacked love as their base.   And so, they innately have a harder time returning to Source, its really not their fault, hence why Retriever Souls were created to try to help retrieve these.  

Others were created while love and Christ were an active part of the plan, and some of these too decided to try to become little gods of their own, but not co-creating, but convincing themselves that they were a power unto themselves, and in doing so kept attracting more and more fear and suffering, all the wayward Souls both the original "lost sparks" and the ones who in some part of themselves knew better, ended up manifesting and densifying what was originally nonphysical patterns.  

 The physical is a result of these and of un-Source like manifesting and choosing, and not of God originally.  It was all originally Soul and Spirit energy, but when Soul the individual part of Spirit started to manifest outside of the ways of the Creator, it had the effect to slower and slower the vibratory patterns of their own Soul energies thus effectively getting themselves ever more stuck and separated in consciousness (not in reality) from the Creator.   Thus the physical became a projected image of Soul energy, a densified pattern and reflection, and it is a distorted and inaccurate version or representation of same.  But, because it wasn't and isn't based on true creating, it is a temporal existance which will eventually fade once enough stuck Souls speed up their inner vibratory patterns, and redeem the physical to that of its true nature, pure energy.  

 This is the whole meaning behind the Resurrection.   A Soul took on the physical, speeded up the vibrations of the physical enough to release the real energy behind it, pure Light but yet pure Light fused with form/reflected image and now this person has attributes of both.  Matter is Light energy, but in a very concentrated and very slow vibration form.  It may never be "proven" scientifically, but this is and this process is what created the image of the Shroud.  

  Many Souls originally didn't get stuck, and weren't part of the process of manifesting the physical out of the original nonphysical energies.   But they became aware of what was happening to their fellow siblings, and they felt great compassion and a desire to help to un-stick their stuck siblings.    Some were foolhardy brave and decided to get directly involved, and they started to concentrate their energies in-physical as well.    Little did they know, the full force and pull of the physical.  Many of these became stuck to various degrees as well, though often not as stuck as the ones they originally came to help.

 There were various waves of rescue groups, and the Earth was a primary system of energies in which this effort was concentrated in.   Why, because this was a particularly dense and slow vibratory "area" of consciousness in which many were particularly stuck.   After awhile, some of the original retrievers regained a certain amount of their former consciousness and degree of fast vibratory patterns, and they became much more careful and choosy in how they would help.   There was and still is a certain amount of direct in-physical help needed, but overall the concentration became oriented more to nonphysical assistance and guidance simply because it is easier on part of most of the helpers to resist the pull and distortion effect of the physical.  And of course its tendency to really limit one's perceptions and perceiving capacity.

thats a good post Justin. you seem to have a good grasp on it. I am hoping in this century and soon, we can bring religious concepts into alignment with science as we know it, so that we can really reach maximum velocity. however, i may be way ahead of things as they are in reality.

One thing I ponder on here, aside from ACIM, is some methology I read long ago about the inhabitants of Earth. I believe before Lemuria? Lemuria was a group of souls around the same time as the Atlanteans were said to be here. What the story was spirit landed here, much the same way as Bruce's "Curiosity" story. We were magnetized into the Earth's gravity and began experimenting. I don't believe the soul had divided yet into male female category's. I don't believe we had developed that far. So, things went awry, wouldn't you know it? :)  we entered the bodies of animals and procreated that way, creating an odd assortment of centaurs, half man, half beast.
oh oh, it was dna mayhem..back to the spirit drawing board in the sky.
new plans were drawn up to create man as man and animal to remain as the animal kingdom. good thinking...so from the man, a woman form now came, but she, his feminine side, was really himself, split into male and female. and things became more orderly insofar as spirit running amuck on the planet in attempts to evolve into our present society. which aint all that wonderful, but certainly better than what I just described.

so the way I see spirit, and oneness, and bodies, I see spirit as a chunk of god, this chunk found this planet, it was fascinating, it was opportunity to individualize and evolve with this issue of choice, free will. so we all are this chunk which broke off, we were on a scouting mission and got sidetracked? maybe we didn't get sidetracked, but I see the main body of god as waiting on us to get back home, and that this is a place to grow more consciousness, loosh, god stuff, be all that we can be, for the betterment of all of us.

just sharing some thoughts and I thank you for your thoughts as well, they are something I will think about.
love, alysia

Hi All, there's too many ideas to respond to here! lol! very good ideas and thoughts from the posters.

one thing the Course says is the ego, (the Course's explanation) it's job is to be the questioner, should you attain peace of mind, the questions cease. you have given up the world in that case and exchanged it for the illuminated mind of peacefulness.

its not that you cease to be active in your interests..its just that you are more efficient and the mind is quieter.
the ego as the restless, or competitive or striving part of us, which always wants to be in control, or be right is a chatterbox. it can be trained to perceive not threat, or to imagine feaful circumstance, but trained to focus in on higher thoughts, like the many affirmations we can secure, of a positive nature, from ACIM, as well many other sources.

Also I just read in Disappearance of Universe, (I'm on page 253 Lucy, it's mostly just repeating what the Course says.) I read that in 500 years it will be more easily understood and it will be accepted as JC's second coming then if not sooner.
and that's logical, as he wouldn't be accepted in the flesh in this day and age as Jesus. We are far too skeptical of that.

If you can Lucy meditate on what allowing means, I think you would go far. I used to meditate on what a state of synchronized events occuring in my life would mean, and it was most interesting, still is, what that kind of meditation does for you, and what it produces, like an expectation, perhaps an intention to see this, then the mind is very powerful to create your reality.

Rondele, good question. Now why? Did we want a challenge? There are some questions the Course will not answer and comes right and says that it cannot answer all of our questions. It mentions a "final step" where you have to wait on god. Waiting on god to take the final step is my peaceful quest for over 20 years. it's like having faith and of course training the mind to catch yourself when you get negative over something. I used to fly off the handle or get depressed, but don't anymore, so things will change.

Its personal, why I came to this planet, as it must be for all of us. we all have a life purpose and the Course does not address that. but if I am love, as it says, I have had some experiences to show me I was perfect love on another level of the soul. NDE will show us this too. part of my reason for incarnating, just part, was because I was attracted to my mother's soul..I wanted to make sure she knew I loved her even though some tragic things had happened in another time, I was shown. I was part of her group. I'm glad I got it all resolved between us. so I think basically we learn more about love and expressing it as a priority towards peace of mind.

The allusion is, according to traditional religion, we are riff raff here...it's an allusion we need to get around, in order to realize we are one with the creator. We are all quite worthy to enter the kingdom or bring it here by waking up to our creative powers and extending it to one another.

then, we can stop the killing..thats basically a giant step for mankind. maybe soon.
love, alysia

Hi Guys,

Thanks Alysia for starting this thread, it was just upper I needed for this weekends project.

Just went through the entire thread to be able to pick ACIM card by asking, “What would be a most helpful response for me at this time?” and got:  

     Anger cannot occur
           unless you believe that you have been attacked,
            that your attack is justified in return,
     and that you are in no way responsible for it,*
All in response to Alysia’s choice of affirmation, “I want only peace of mind.”  Which really is the question, “Do I want to win or have peace of mind?”  Of course in the world of form, as E. Tolle puts it, we all tend to want to win but in the world beyond form, the other option is more appealing.  Many of us are attempting to go beyond the world of form as show by the effort put forth and insights expressed in this thread alone.  Some of us tend to respond through the study of others words, sure save time, but direct experience is also good because then we can get the chance to move beyond belief to knowing. It doesn’t matter whether or not we’re right or wrong concerning our knowing, ‘cause remember we’re merely gathering information.  We get enough of our stories together, then… yadda, yadda, yadda, we become the new belief system.  That’s why I really appreciate Monroe and Bruce setting up places and giving tools for us to not only have a chance at direct experience but also have support while doing this.

Anyhow back to “I want only peace of mind.”  Many of us believe that by “attacking” we can really get something we want. We forget that by “attacking” and “defending” ourselves we loose that elusive, deep in the heart-sigh of calmness felt as we experience inner peace.

The course gives some tips that I’ve found helpful-when I can remember to use them (duh):

     1)Today, I will view without judgment everything that occurs, and will remind myself frequently:
     Everyone     exists with me, to be loved, not judged.
   
     2)Throughout the day when you feel threatened, repeat to yourself: In my defenselessness lies my safety
        and strength. I choose to leave weakness behind today.

Just some samples from ACIM and presented in a more clear way by G.Jampolsky from his Mini Course for Healing Relationships and Bringing About Peace of Mind.  As far as wondering why and where we come from and where god fits into all this, I tend to go along with Monroe’s take after he entered the Aperture and his Knowns in UJ pgs 224-225.

I do apologize for being a Monroe/Moen “groupie” and add that I like the line given in the ROTE received when Monroe took the above ultimate journey as how it relates in my view to attacking, peace, and being one through the glue of PUL: There is no greater, there is no lesser, There is only balance and There is no union, there is no sharing, There is only one.

But then again, I think these must be viewed through the eyes and heart of non-form.

Got a kick out of responding to this thread, hope someone out there might find it helpful as I’ve found the other posters 2cents worth this weekend.

Love and lots of glue, Jean :-*

*T,84, ACIM

ps I'm with Justin in that I do have to take ACIM in small doses or the old ego flares up with anger >:( as oppossed to falling asleep as a coping mechanism. That's why I like the cards and Jampolsky's mini course rather than taking on the text of 3 books and that's after having an open house every tuesday on ACIM for 4 years back in the '90's.
 

Hi Jean, reading you and Justin's reaction to the Course, it magnifies my memories of my studies backin the 80's and gives me achance to clarify that period of feeling reborn and the tears that flowed so easily from the feeling that I was loved just as I am/was. I'm afraid I may have been a bigger basket case than anyone else but one must stop apologizing at some point and carry on.

I won't speak of the guide/Holy Spirit that was upon me as that's another subject I could talk on for ages but of course, I did feel a presence of love so intense I was often overwhelmed in a good way. the tears were for cleansing purposes. I was getting rid of "I feel like a piece of caca belief system.)

well, I had the time. I wasn't working. would spend 2 to 5 hours daily on the material, and wasn't a struggle as long as the presence of love stayed with me helping me thru the hard parts. so I understand what you guys are saying now as the presence told me this was no fast food drive through and demanded my attention on the material. I balked at having to do an affirmation a day, reading it 3 or more times during odd hours, after all I told my guide, I had committed to the morning hours the study, so why should I have to also read an affirmation while I cooked dinner, or gardened?
then reading somemore, all that was required was a glance at the affirmation so it would stick in my mind so I agreed that wasn't so hard to do.
took a little over a year to do 365 affirmations but was as important as the text.

I also had a group over once a week, other ACIM students to study and talk together, this for a year. Most of the people had careers so they considered it just reading material of a profound nature, but didn't have the time I had to swim deep into the material. yet the material is designed for our society for those who do want peace of mind and peace on Earth. It's just that recognizing the ego within is/can be excruciatingly humbling to see how we humans can get so caught up in non/truth, and separation/judgment issues of others so we cannot see we are all in this together, we are all magnificent allusion busters once we get past allusions of granduer the ego likes to do as well as we are so involved in competitive sports, business, politics, ambitions and gambling. A contemplative has to go hole up somewhere just to survive.
well I need the book and I had asked for something and it was there.

it's about human psychology too and I had a bent towards that. it's not supposed to be a church, just a self help book, and the book which took Renard 8 years to write, "The Disappearance of the Universe" is aptly named as our former perceptions and beliefs of the universe begin to disappear, replaced by a "finished" feeling in the human soul and a joyful outreach towards our greater selves and the lovingness which the universe is after stripping away our singular quest for control and power over others and circumstances.

much peace to you all, I've used this board to the max to study life and myself.
alysia

Jesus is the alleged source of ACIM which was channeled over 7 years by Columbia psychologist, Helen Schucman.  The real Jesus warns about the need for discernment of counterfeiting spirits: “By their fruits you will know them (Matthew 7:16).”  One would expect ACIM to be a rich blessing in Helen’s life.   So there is a tragic irony in two bogus claims by ACIM's Jesus: “Anyone who elects a totally insane guide must be insane himself. (Chap. 9, IV, p. 170)”  “It would be madness to entrust salvation to the insane (Chap. 25, VII, p. 533).”  

Benedict Groeschel, a priest and psychologist, was close enough to Helen to be asked to give a eulogy at her funeral in 1981.  Benedict writes: “This woman who had written so eloquently that suffering really did not exist spent the last two years of her life in THE BLACKEST PSYCHOTIC DEPRESSION I have ever witnessed. “  Apparently, this impersonating spirit warned about an insane guide to mask its intent to make Helen insane.  Evil entities routinely deceive by sharing truths to set up a devastating lie.  Benedict was known for his skepticism about alleged cases of demonic possession.   For example, he was called to perform an exoricism in a case in which objects were thrown around the room by an unseen hand.  He dismissed this case as an example of paranormal manifestations, but not of diabolical possession.  So it is striking that this no-nonsense psychologist admits that Helen’s channeling may well be a case of demonic possession.  

ACIM's Jesus contradicts the historical Jesus' teaching at several key points.  Most notably, ACIM denies Jesus' self-professed mission to die for our sins (e. g. Mark 10:45).  In fact, ACIM's Jesus even denies the reality of sin.  This is a typical ploy of demonic entities.   But there is a vast army of gullible new Agers who could care less about the real Jesus' warnings about the evil intent of spirit impersonators.   Their ghetto mentality prevents them from researching what Christian spirituality and discernment actually entails.

Don

you Don are the saddest person I have ever met in my life. you are like the antiChrist to me and I never used to believe in the antiChrist until just now.

goodbye forever Don. Such bad vibes waft off your posts.

Don't take it personally, Alyssia.  We pick and choose what we integrate into our own ideas and beliefs.  Whether it is the Seth material, Elias - who my gut has always told me was off base, or ACIM, someone can always legitimately pose you or me the question:

"but what if this channeling was not JC/Seth/Elias?"  "how would that effect your beliefs/ideas about the book?"  If there are certain truths in ACIM you have found to ring true/resonate with, and have seen a positive change in your life with it, that is what it is all about.

What nefarious purpose what an imposter accomplish by trying to have everyone espouse love and get closer to God?  None that I can see.

I understand Don's need to post his doubts, especially with his background and studies on JC.  His doubt should not sully your experience or love of this book.  We should all be grounded enough in our own experiences and ideas that we do not rely to heavily on another person/being's dictums/path.  This is why we explore on our own.  

So let your heart lighten, dear one.  Don't be sad/angry, as life is too short for that.  This thread has had a positive effect, and the ideas expressed within are worth reading.

Matthew

you make me feel good about myself Doc. I was pretty uptight I know. I need a place to talk about what ACIM did for me spiritually and whenever someone says theres demons attached to a book which did save my life and is therefore precious to me, I get to feeling really sad that I won't be able to talk about this love inside me now.

you are so right, I still take things personally! but I'm getting quicker on the comeback, I used to go sulk, but not anymore! lol. this board has given me a place to grow and to talk and open up to that love that has been growing.

also the Course says the truth needs no defending. and I'm not supposed to defend it because if something is true it stands the test of time.

I was wondering if we could all send Don a healing thought, if he could accept healing? I mean theres power in numbers, and if we all sent Don a feeling of good will then we could all be one big happy family?
well, I guess thats asking too much to think that could happen after all these years?

I'll just do my forgiveness exercises as ACIM has taught me that's all I can do with the aid of HS.  I release you Don from any troubling thoughts and see your soul soaring into joy, peace and I will see god welcoming you into his arms.
thanks again Doc and I apologize for calling you Don the antichrist if in case you are not that.

Berserk wrote on Mar 26^th, 2007 at 7:31pm:

Jesus is the alleged source of ACIM which was channeled over 7 years by Columbia psychologist, Helen Schucman.  The real Jesus warns about the need for discernment of counterfeiting spirits: “By their fruits you will know them (Matthew 7:16).”  One would expect ACIM to be a rich blessing in Helen’s life.   So there is a tragic irony in two bogus claims by ACIM's Jesus: “Anyone who elects a totally insane guide must be insane himself. (Chap. 9, IV, p. 170)”  “It would be madness to entrust salvation to the insane (Chap. 25, VII, p. 533).”   Benedict Groeschel, a priest and psychologist, was close enough to Helen to be asked to give a eulogy at her funeral in 1981.  Benedict writes: “This woman who had written so eloquently that suffering really did not exist spent the last two years of her life in THE BLACKEST PSYCHOTIC DEPRESSION I have ever witnessed. “  Apparently, this impersonating spirit warned about an insane guide to mask its intent to make Helen insane.  Evil entities routinely deceive by sharing truths to set up a devastating lie.  Benedict was known for his skepticism about alleged cases of demonic possession.   For example, he was called to perform an exoricism in a case in which objects were thrown around the room by an unseen hand.  He dismissed this case as an example of paranormal manifestations, but not of diabolical possession.  So it is striking that this no-nonsense psychologist admits that Helen’s channeling may well be a case of demonic possession.

 Hi Don, I'm curious about this last paragraph.  So, we are assuming that Helen's depression is directly attributable to her channeling, and specifically to ACIM?   Do other people who knew Helen, particularly during this time where Benedict said she was in the "blackest psychotic depression i have ever witnessed", also have a similar opinion or perception of her at that point?

 I'm honestly curious because i'm not 100 percent "sold" on ACIM.  I think there are a lot of beautiful ideas, imagery, and concepts in same, but i don't know for sure if Jesus was the author.   Is there anymore corroborating info along the lines of the above?

 Also, as far as i'm aware, ACIM doesn't completely deny the concept of suffering by any means, what it does deny is that it is not ultimately of God (which makes it ultimately unreal though real enough in the moment for us), but of our egos which is something we created, and because we created it outside of the will or consciousness of God, it is a temporal reality ultimately.   Yet, the course says that suffering is real while we are feeding it, it hurts, and it also seems to say that its the catalyst behind us wayward Souls to eventually not choose unreality, or un-Godness anymore.  

 This more than makes sense to me, and doesn't it also jibe with the N.T. as well?  I remember something in there talking about Jesus and his life like, "He learned obediance through the things he suffered."  (not exact).  I know a big reason of why i'm on a spiritual path is that i'm just sick of suffering for myself, and also i want to see it end for my brothers and sisters as well.  I want to be happy, but not dependant happy, and again i want the same for others.


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ACIM's Jesus contradicts the historical Jesus' teaching at several key points.  Most notably, ACIM denies Jesus' self-professed mission to die for our sins (e. g. Mark 10:45).  In fact, ACIM's Jesus even denies the reality of sin.  This is a typical ploy of demonic entities.   But there is a vast army of gullible new Agers who could care less about the real Jesus' warnings about the evil intent of spirit impersonators.   Their ghetto mentality prevents them from researching what Christian spirituality and discernment actually entails.

 Again, that seems to be a "black and white" characterization.  ACIM seems, to me, to say that ultimately there is no sin, because anything not based in God can not truly and eternally exist, yet says that for us freewilled children that we can err, we can sin, but that its not ever unpardonable, ever.   We just have to change our choices, and stop choosing outside of God's plan, will, and way of being.  The more we do this, and do this conisistently the more happy we eventually become.

 This again makes sense to me.  If God, Source or what not, is THE reality, the eternal, the perfect, etc., then "sin" is not of God, but of us, and like suffering will eventually not exist anymore either both in an invidual sense and in a collective sense.    ACIM or no, i do believe in error, or missing the mark as some might call it.  To me, there is a "standard" and that standard is love, especially as expressed through and by Yeshua, all encompassing, unlimited, impersonal, but yet God is more than love as well.   So, we can express un-love to varying degrees as judged relatively from the standard of completely universal, unconditional, and constructive love.

  As far as Helen and what Benedict says about her depression, if it is true then there possibly may be other reasons beyond ACIM and its channeling, correct?   Could it be that Helen here had some very high ideals of treating others with only love and in a purely constructive manner, but as a human being she had a hard time living up to those ideals?   When one has really high ideals and rarely lives up to them, this can certainly dog ones conscience can it not, and do it enough this could lead to depression especially considering facilitating factors.

  As far as the above, i'm reminded of Edgar Cayce and his life and psychic readings.  His guides espoused very high ideals, and Cayce sometimes seemed to have had a hard time living up to them, and this sometimes got to him i think.  He fell often, and he went through some depressive periods too, which wasn't helped by his lack of physical health, and the continual outer testings which is bound to occur in a basically materialistic and/or religiously dogmatic society which shuns and reacts negatively to the "unknown".

 Also, we're assuming that depression in general is mostly a emotional/mental, psychological, and/or spiritual issue here, what of physicality and body health or lack thereof?   Serverly and chronically pinched nerves (in the spinal system), imbalanced body and brain chemistry from bad diet, too much stress, lack of exercise (especially right kind) etc., and many other factors can greatly facilitate depressive states of being in physically incarnate personality.    
I suffered with rather severe depression from the time i was little to about age 21 or so.  Some of it was psychological and spiritual, definitely, but a lot i noticed was also physical.   The more i cleaned up my general lifestyle along the health lines, the more i noticed mood improvement, and this was not an easy, nor simple process.   It took a lot of discipline and research on many levels, and it took a lot of time as well (it was 7 years before it was noticably and consistently improved).   A lot of changes in diet, in exercise, more meditation and prayer.

 Yeah, there was a lot of work elsewhere as well, but a lot was directly physical in nature.  

 Again, not so black and white.  So, while Helen may have been a basically "spiritual" person, perhaps she lacked knowledge in other areas such as diet, health, etc., perhaps her body was overall very imbalanced via more purely physical means and causes--some she may not even have known about (such as spinal nerve impingements?  

There are a couple of very dramatic and well documented cases in the Cayce files about extreme emotional-mental imbalances which are directly related to purely physical causes.  One, a young woman who was a fine artist with a lot of potential along that line, suddenly started to become very imbalanced emotionally and mentally, and nobody knew why.   She got a reading, and said that an impacted tooth was pressing on a nerve, and this was basically causing this problem.   His guides said where to fix this, the advice was followed, and voila, she was completely healed and returned to normality.  She was in a mental institution and released.  All documented with signed affidavits.

 Another man--a loving and gentle family man, suddenly turned violent on his family, and was committed.  Somebody got a reading for him, and was told that he had fell prior to his complete change in attitude, and that certain important nerves connecting to his spinal system were being severely impinged (resulting from the fall and back accident), and that this was what was primarily causing this major emotional imbalance..yet it was not emotional, mental or spiritual in nature or cause, but rather purely physical.  
 E.C.'s guides recommended specific areas of his spine to be worked on, and again, he was returned to normalcy.  

Do you take such factors into consideration, or is it purely a black and white subject to you, that all people who are depressed and/or extremely emotionally-mentally imbalanced are so because of psychological and/or spiritual reasons?  

 Also consider this Don, before Helen wrote ACIM she was more or less a respected psychologist, someone with a good and solid education.  She was probably well respected from societiy's viewpoint, accepted, and held in high regard.  

No doubt when people found out that she wrote this book, how and why she wrote it, no doubt she received a lot of negativity from others--particularly her yuppish peers.  It's not unreasonable to assume that she went through a lot of black listing, judgmental criticism, and general testing and ridicule that one might expect in a largely skeptical, close minded, and dogmatic America, especially during the time that she had written and published this book.   At the very least, i doubt that she received much overt support.  

 This can take its toll on a person, especially a person who has otherwise, heavily invested themselves in the social structure and paradigms of "respected society".   Imagine if say tomorrow, every church person who knew you, suddenly knew about all your "weird" ideas, your interests in Swedenborg, your research into various psychics, etc.    I may be wrong, but i'm guessing its more than likely that if the majority of those who knew you, knew all of this stuff about you and your somewhat unconventional side, you too might feel rejection, some disapointment.  

 Yet the "new age" is stronger than its ever been, but transport yourself, your views, beliefs, and unconvential ideas to her time, and just try to imagine how some of your fellow church bretheren might respond and react to you, and the possible impact that may have on your psychological state?  But times it by a factor of 10 at least, because in Helen's case, it's definitely more extreme and "out there" than in your case, your's is a "safer" position because you are still relatively well within and operating from the fold.

 Again, there is some parallel here with Cayce and his life.  Many people showed negativity of one kind or another to him, just because of what he was doing and because of its unusual nature.  He experienced a lot of rejection, judgment, criticism, and sometimes downright derision and extreme pettiness from others, and it was rather constant through his life no matter where he went.  He was kicked out of the church he had faithfully served for many years as a Sunday school teacher when they found out that he was a psychic, or more aptly when people started to take notice of him on a more national level.   Don't you think that receiving such energy from others has it's destructive effect if the person isn't fully spiritualized like a Jesus?   It can't be easy to deal with, that's for sure.

 Yet, people like Helen, like Cayce, like Monroe put their arses and reputations on the line for their beliefs and it was not easy by any means.    Being a Christian in the 20th or 21th century is a walk in the park by comparison.

 Why not some more balance and not so extreme and black and white?

laffinrain

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you Don are the saddest person I have ever met in my life. you are like the antiChrist to me and I never used to believe in the antiChrist until just now. goodbye forever Don. Such bad vibes waft off your posts.

What the?  bbrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr poison

There is a Buddhist belief that poison can be turned into medicine, dear Augo.

The antidote is called Love and Detachment......remember....unlock your cupboard and find them there waiting for you.

Here, I offer some, from my own home.  I have cupped my hands for you to drink from.

The waters of love are endless....unceasing....here for us all.


Ego is endlessly hungry for our thoughts and emotions to feed it.

But Ego is not us.  We are not Ego.  

None of us are Ego.  Ego does not own us.  

Become slippery as an eel....become too smooth for Ego....give Ego nothing to cling to.

Then, don't store up your Love....Give it Away.  

Love is for sharing.


Then, dearest Augo, look again in your cupboard. The Love is still there, pure, calm, still.

It is as if it was always there, your Love, and so it Is.


love, blink  :)

Gee so much acrimony!  Alysia, are you comparing Don to the Antichrist or are you saying he IS the Antichrist?  Can't tell.  lol.

Once again, it's the ego at work, in this case attacking Don because he doesn't buy into a particular book or belief system.  And because folks don't like the way he objects and the words he uses.

Reminds me of when I turned 16 and had my heart set on getting my very own car.  I wanted a car so bad I could taste it.  In my spare time I would check out classified ads and if possible, go over to see the car that was being sold.  I fell in love with almost all of them!

So the big day finally came, I had enough money saved up and my dad agreed to go with me to help me select a car that I could afford.

Well, each time we went somewhere and looked at a car, my dad seemed to be totally negative.  He found all kinds of reasons not to buy this one or that one.  It seemed like the more excited I got, the more he showed me things that he said were either broken or would cause problems.  We came home, I was totally defeated and demoralized.  And most of all angry at my dad.  In my 16 yr old mind, his only objective was to be sure I didn't get my very own car.

I silently cursed him.  If I had known about the concept of the Antichrist, I probably would have labeled him as such.

To me, many years later, Don is like my dad.  I tend to get excited when I read something new and different, and ACIM sure fit that description.  But I know now to step back and consider a book or a belief system and ask myself "What is the agenda of the author"?  And this is where ACIM raises red flags at least to me.

Namely, if my objectives were to convince people that worship of God is unnecessary, and that there is no such thing as sin, and that people can behave pretty much as they want to without any fear of punishment......then I would tell them essentially what ACIM tells us.  

You think that serial murderer is evil and should be punished when he dies?  Heck no, not to worry because he didn't really commit those sins.  Why?  Well, because sin doesn't really exist.  It's just an illusion.  And do you feel guilty because you cheated that old man out of his life savings?  Gee don't feel guilty, because guilt doesn't exist either.  It too is an illusion.  In fact, every bad and awful thing you ever heard about or saw or did is just an illusion.  And of course there can be no punishment for illusory things, right?

So what we essentially have is zero accountability.  No one is guilty of anything because no one really did anything.

Nice huh?  Ahhhh but here's the rub- how does this square with what Seth has said (and many others include lots and lots of NDE accounts?  Namely, the life review!  In the LR, we are presented with a panorama of everything we ever did or said in our lifetime AND the affect those things had on others.  We actually feel their hurt, their disappointment, their fear, sadness, etc etc.  It is an awesome learning tool.  And Seth has said repeatedly that earth is a school.  If it's a school, then just like a school there must be right ways and wrong ways of behaving.

So think about this.....if ACIM is correct, the Life Review is totally unnecessary because nothing I ever did in life was real.  It was all illusory so therefore it was impossible for me to ever hurt anyone.  We all are without blame and wrongdoing.  Life cannot be a school because ACIM says that we created this world and our job is to recognize all of its snares and traps and delusions.  The author pretty much trashes the earth.  He certainly does not treasure it by any means.

Folks, we can't have it both ways.  Either there is sin or there is not.  Either we are accountable for the things we do or don't do, or we're not.  

As the old saying goes, you pays your money and you takes your chance.

R

First of all, I can't say what the absolute truth on the matter is, but here are some thoughts.

I find it hard to believe that Jesus would actually choose this approach to pass on information.
Even if he did, I doubt that he would choose a woman who had no interest in him.

Considering how hard it is to receive spirit communication, I doubt that a person with no spiritual background could receive this many words from a spirit who exists at the level of Jesus Christ.

The 365 day course is really questionable. Would Jesus actually take a new age one course fits all approach?

Would Jesus really dictate something such as a teacher's manuel?

The way the teaching is presented in ACIM isn't anything like the way Jesus' teaching are presented in the Gospels. What happened to the parables? What is this attonement, miracle, ego attacks phraseology that is used over and over again.

Regarding over and over again, if Jesus did channel information to a person, would he do so for pages and pages while basically repeating the same thing over and over again? This could have a brainwashing effect. I would think that he would be more succinct and discuss a number of subjects.

The course seems like Vendanta mixed with a little bit of Fruedian psychology and Christian terminology. I wonder if Jesus would really teach in such a way.

I've read that some people read the course over and over again, year after year. Wouldn't they be better served if they took that time to look at themselves rather than repeating afirmations to themselves. For example, take the afirmation, "The World you see isn't real." There could be some value in saying this, but going by my extensive experience with similar Vendanta like teachings, unless a person puts in the effort to get over the psyschological attachments that bind he or she, he or she won't be able to realize this to a degree that is life transforming.

Jesus was a teacher for the masses. "The World you see isn't real" is hardly an approach for the masses.

If this course is a vehicle for enlightenment, then where are all the enlightened students. Mariane Williamson? I watched a video of one of her talks, and she was hardly enlightened. She seemed like a typical motivational speaker. That man who refers to himself as master teacher? Doubtful, considering the cases of abuse that are part of his group, the brainwashed look I saw in the eyes of some of his followers, and one statement of his which stood out, I can't remember the exact words, "if you can't rediscover your true self, surrender to me." Surrender to him? Why not surrender to God, Jesus and the holy spirit if you're going to surrender?

I could go on, but I'll switch to the messages I've received from my spirit guidance.

Like Ahso the course would cause me to click out when I first started to read it (I didn't finish doing so). I felt like I was being brainwashed. One night I had a dream where I was back with the cult I used to belong to. At the end of the dream a man shook me vigorously. Why did you do it? Why did you allow yourself to be brainwashed again? He was talking about ACIM.

A part of my job is proofreading legal documents. When I make corrections I make them with red ink. I was shown an image where four pages were taken out of the course. These pages had lots of red writing on them.

One time while meditating I wondered which book represents the teachings of Jesus the best. First in the dark, I was shown the cover of ACIM, but it stayed in the backgroud until it moved into the darkness and out of view. Next the Holy Bible was brought up into my view, more completely than ACIM. It "wasn't" brought back into the darkness.

One evening I was shown the back of ACIM two times. I would think that if the book was being supported, I would've been shown the front cover.

Another message was, "drop it, it make the ego bigger." Considering how the course talks about the ego over and over again without explaining how to overcome it, this statement makes sense.

I've received a few other messages that weren't supportive. I can't recall receiving any that were supportive.

It is important to not make the mistake of believing that something is genuine, simply because it contains words that sound flowery and are sometimes thought provoking. If a person is going to try to sell something to others, he or she will make a point of finding a way to keep people attentive.

Sometimes my guidance will have a song pop into my head in order to make a point. One day I asked Jesus what is the motivation behind this book. I didn't see nor hear Jesus after asking this question, so I can't say for certain if it was him who answered, but the song "money makes the World go round" popped into my mind.

"I ask Jesus for forgiveness if the course does in fact come from him, but so much has told me that it doesn't.  For now I won't read it, until Jesus himself tells me that it does.

Recoverer-

Again, just ask yourself what the agenda of the author is IF Jesus isn't the author.  If you really think it through, it should become quite clear.  

Also you make a very good point....this book is not a teaching tool, far from it.  It is extremely long and ponderous.  Yes, the words are beautiful, but the essence of the book could have been boiled down into a much more readable text.  

And somewhere in the lessons is a reference to Jesus in the third person!  Yes, the author speaks about Jesus as if he himself is not Jesus.  A slip of the tongue?  Perhaps.  Then again, perhaps not.

R

Rondele:

I can't say for certain what the motivation behind the course is. Some people have profited---monitarily that is.  The book does seem to create a schism between those who believe in it and those who don't. Jesus would be aware that such a thing would happen. Would he want to take such a risk?

I don't mean to deny the growth that Alysia experienced while reading the course. When I was with a cult I experienced spiritual growth despite the fact that the guru in charge was a fraud. This was because growth is what I sought. Sure he made some statements that were true. You don't have to be a master to say things that sound true. The countless phoney teachers that exist prove this point.


rondele wrote on Mar 27^th, 2007 at 2:01pm:

Recoverer- Again, just ask yourself what the agenda of the author is IF Jesus isn't the author.  If you really think it through, it should become quite clear.   Also you make a very good point....this book is not a teaching tool, far from it.  It is extremely long and ponderous.  Yes, the words are beautiful, but the essence of the book could have been boiled down into a much more readable text.   And somewhere in the lessons is a reference to Jesus in the third person!  Yes, the author speaks about Jesus as if he himself is not Jesus.  A slip of the tongue?  Perhaps.  Then again, perhaps not. R

  I would take ACIM more seriously if it was offered at a much lower cost.  The Yeshua i know and understand, gave freely of himself with no strings attached.  

Recoverer wrote,
Quote:

Like Ahso the course would cause me to click out when I first started to read it (I didn't finish doing so). I felt like I was being brainwashed. One night I had a dream where I was back with the cult I used to belong to. At the end of the dream a man shook me vigorously. Why did you do it? Why did you allow yourself to be brainwashed again? He was talking about ACIM.

 I've always wondered about this odd reaction.  I've never had it with any other book before, not quite like that.  When i was younger and less well read, sometimes when reading really intense and over my head kind of stuff, i would get a bit tired, but nothing in ACIM is unfamiliar to me and so this kind of reaction doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  

 I'm basically an optimist, and at times chalked it up to trying to better integrate the teachings within same...

 But again there were always doubts in the back of my head.   Btw, for a little while i pushed myself to read it, but after awhile i stopped.    Since then, i haven't had much inclination to pick it up again and haven't.


Recoverer wrote,
Quote:

A part of my job is proofreading legal documents. When I make corrections I make them with red ink. I was shown an image where four pages were taken out of the course. These pages had lots of red writing on them. One time while meditating I wondered which book represents the teachings of Jesus the best. First in the dark, I was shown the cover of ACIM, but it stayed in the backgroud until it moved into the darkness and out of view. Next the Holy Bible was brought up into my view, more completely than ACIM. It "wasn't" brought back into the darkness. One evening I was shown the back of ACIM two times. I would think that if the book was being supported, I would've been shown the front cover. Another message was, "drop it, it make the ego bigger." Considering how the course talks about the ego over and over again without explaining how to overcome it, this statement makes sense.

 I have to somewhat agree with this last part.  It seems to talk about the ego too much, its too much of a focus.   I liken the process of changing oneself, to that of the subconscious mind and the principles behind hypnosis.   The subconscious mind doesn't understand "negatives".   If you have a problem, say with eating unhealthy food, you don't say, "you won't eat unhealthy food anymore"...the subconscious mind doesn't understand this, its concentrating on the problem (eating unhealthy food) and so it won't help to change.   But instead if you say, "you desire only healthy and live food, etc..." then it will help, cause now you are focusing on the solution and not the problem.  

 It seems like ACIM focusses a lot on the problem, and not enough on the solution especially in the first part.    I'm of the belief that a person needs to analyze and become aware of self, in an individual way, and that includes feeling out what comes from one's ego and what doesn't.  Become aware of it, but not concentrate on it, and in any case, we're talking more specific things to individuals.  In any case, once aware of the problem or issue, concentrate more on the solution and on what will help you to change.  

 On the other hand, to me there does seem to be spiritual truth in there as well.   I can't say what the motivation is ultimately.   If it is actually channeled from a nonphysical consciousness, then perhaps it was just some philosophical preachy type who wanted attention and a soap box, and figured the name Jesus would sound pretty impressive.   While that is misleading, i don't believe it has to be completely sinister either.  People are people, whether they are in-physical or not.  So what if the guy had a lot of hot air, but a lack of true and holistic understanding?

 As far as money as motivation, again quite possible but i don't really know.   Did she end up profiting off this book in a noticable way?   Did her lifestyle noticably change?    

 Or maybe she was  picking up on both inner and outer channels, and was sincere, but not the clearest channel in the world?   Someone with a good dose of ego, is not the best person in the world to help others overcome theirs, this is plain truth, like attracts and begets like and its the meaning behind Yeshua words, 'by their fruits you will know them.'  

   In any case, i like Matthews' words on this,  

Quote:

"but what if this channeling was not JC/Seth/Elias?"  "how would that effect your beliefs/ideas about the book?"  If there are certain truths in ACIM you have found to ring true/resonate with, and have seen a positive change in your life with it, that is what it is all about.

wrote on Mar 27^th, 2007 at 3:22pm:

Another message was, "drop it, it make the ego bigger." Considering how the course talks about the ego over and over again without explaining how to overcome it, this statement makes sense.

 I have to somewhat agree with this last part.  It seems to talk about the ego too much, its too much of a focus.   I liken the process of changing oneself, to that of the subconscious mind and the principles behind hypnosis.   The subconscious mind doesn't understand "negatives".   If you have a problem, say with eating unhealthy food, you don't say, "you won't eat unhealthy food anymore"...the subconscious mind doesn't understand this, its concentrating on the problem (eating unhealthy food) and so it won't help to change.   But instead if you say, "you desire only healthy and live food, etc..." then it will help, cause now you are focusing on the solution and not the problem.  

 It seems like ACIM focusses a lot on the problem, and not enough on the solution especially in the first part.    I'm of the belief that a person needs to analyze and become aware of self, in an individual way, and that includes feeling out what comes from one's ego and what doesn't.  Become aware of it, but not concentrate on it, and in any case, we're talking more specific things to individuals.  In any case, once aware of the problem or issue, concentrate more on the solution and on what will help you to change.  

""Thank you for the above. I've found that if I focus my attention on my negative mental tendencies this is all they need to come into action. What's important is to let go of these tendencies and develop the will power to not live according to them.""

   In any case, i like Matthews' words on this,  

Quote:

"but what if this channeling was not JC/Seth/Elias?"  "how would that effect your beliefs/ideas about the book?"  If there are certain truths in ACIM you have found to ring true/resonate with, and have seen a positive change in your life with it, that is what it is all about.

""What Matthew wrote is true to an extent, but if the course doesn't contain the words of Jesus Christ, I find it really sad that millions of people are mislead by it.

Regarding Seth, like you, a couple of times I tuned into a bad/dark vibe when I read him. Some of the things he says about Jesus are insulting and completely false.

Here's a question. If a person came up to you and insulted your family and had misrepresented them in some way, would you choose to have a conversation with this person simply because he had a few pithy things to say?""

maybe it's good this thread developed..gives everyone a chance to write down their thoughts. I already apologized to Don if I'm wrong about him.
its just that he and I are a couple of the oldest posters here, have been here the longest and if he is not making unkind remarks, such as black and white remarks, name calling, etc about ACIM, then he makes them about Bruce or Monroe, so they are blanket statements of a fundie approach to all of life; this is what I meant about an antichrist type of feeling I get from him, that he does not believe all of us can attain a Christ consciousness, but only perhaps someone like ES; the rest of us are never supported. And this board is supposed to be about Bruce's books, and the Monroe Institute, what it has contributed to society, but I never hear any support for TMI from Don, down through the years, so I begin to see that he will never support TMI.
I am very interested in left/right brain balance approach that TMI is offering in order to do our own exploring, but instead this board keeps degenerating away from the principles of which it was founded on.
I know it's human nature to get off topic. but don leads us down an ES road time and time again which has nothing to do with TMI thought and principle.
and he leads us away from the intentions of this board to be explorers in a safe environment for that expression and sharing, by critisizing TMI, ACIM, our experiences included we might share.
Then newbies will not post. They will think we are all holy rollers. worshiping an antique god and bowing before his majesty who has come to save us from delusion.

Don's ego is huge. perhaps mine is too. I would like to see more love expressed on this board and forgiveness. Blink and Doc and Justin express love and some others now and then, we can learn from these who express allowance of ideas to share.

I tried to share my feelings and thoughts about ACIM. It had a profound effect on me, it made me feel loved, free, gave me new hope and yes, reprogrammed my negative mind to a positive frame.
the brain is like a computer Albert, all programmed with belief systems; it is not your true self, so if ACIM reprograms, then that's a good thing, at least for some of us who can hear it's message of love and forgiveness, and this is what J taught, "father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."

The Course also teaches, as some of you are teaching me, that nobody has done or said anything against me that I need even forgive. and that's so true!
I am strong in the truth that love and forgiveness, giving up this world, is exactly my course of action and contributes to my joyful exit one day.

Until then, when I truly take leave of my body, I stand convicted ACIM is the voice of JC and I will shout it from each mountaintop in my gratitude that he salvaged me from despair and struggle. I will stand beside my king one day and give my gratitude to him.

and he told me he loves you all the same as he loves me and that we but dream we are here, in this crazy world which doesn't know how to love, nor to forgive others, nor even how to cut each other a little slack.

I am safe. I am loved. So are you all. I will meet you on the other side some day.
god bless you all, whatever you consider god to be, I consider god puts joy in your heart deep down, I wish I could share that joy, I wish I could do it here, I don't know if I can stay here much longer to try but I love some of the newbies who are looking for this love, this love the HS placed inside me and it makes you want to give yourself away to people but it hurts so bad, such unkind words who would not return love, but return only a type of fear. alysia   (but I recognize some great lights here too. Justin, you have grown so huge in light. I love you dealy!)

recoverer wrote on Mar 27^th, 2007 at 1:08pm:

If this course is a vehicle for enlightenment, then where are all the enlightened students. Mariane Williamson? I watched a video of one of her talks, and she was hardly enlightened. She seemed like a typical motivational speaker.

 That's kind of a "loaded" statement.  However expanded a teaching is, however fast vibrating and attuned to Source the teacher is, this doesn't necessarily produce enlightened students.   Completely spiritualizing the body while in physical seems to be a rather challening process, otherwise there would be more He/She, Yeshua types around.  Show me anybody who is completely enlightened, no matter what the belief system or teaching involved..

  Yeshua didn't get "special" and unique teachings, which made him become that way while others exposed to the same teachings didn't.   It was because of his spiritual will and choosing.  


   As far as ACIM goes, if it is not really from Jesus, and has a tendency to keep the ego alive, then i'm surprised that Bruce Moen recommends this book.   Surely his guidance would have let him know if this book wasn't the most constructive teaching in the world?

 Or, in reading Bob Monroe's biography, i came to a part where some people who had attended one of his programs, asked him what he believed in, what was his life philosophy, and he simply showed them a copy of ACIM.

 Bob doesn't seem to me like the gullible type when it comes to stuff like that, and he was surely rather consciously in touch with his own guidance too, probably even more so than a lot of people here.   Like Bruce Moen, wouldn't Monroe's guidance have told him to be careful of this teaching if it was a false one?

 Thank you for the kind words Alysia.  We're All great Lights here, you, me, Don, Recoverer, etc., etc...  We just need to realize that more about each other.

All the best and highest to you

Alysia:

Why are you convinced? Isn't it possible that some of the words in the course could help a person such as yourself growth, even if they didn't come from Christ? As I showed with my experience with a cult, people manage to grow while following teachings with a false source all the time, because there is enough within such teachings for a sincere person to make use of.

If you have a reason for knowing that the course is true other than your own growth, please let us know. I've really tried to see that the course does represent the teachings of Christ, and even though positive things are said, I couldn't come to a conclusion that they are.

I bet you I could find you all kinds of guru books that say nice things, but if you looked at what the guru is really about you would see that he isn't a master.

Don't you believe it is important to be responsible when it comes to telling people that a course does in fact come from Jesus Christ?

Partly what Bruce Moen's books are about is questioning belief systems. When it comes to ACIM, are you willing to do this just a little bit? You don't have to give up your growth in order to do so.

Certainly Bob and Bruce could be wrong about the matter. Perhaps they didn't ask their guidance about the course? I know of other cases where people with guidance refer to false sources of information. I've asked my guidance and I've asked Christ, and the only messages I've received including more than I've shared, have never expressed that ACIM comes from Christ.  

I have an idea. How about everybody who is taking a part in this thread, say a prayer before they go to bed tonight, and ask for a dream that lets them know about the origin of ACIM. We'll compare notes.

I'm still open to changing my mind, if the divine powers that be tell me differently. Regarding what my intuition and intellect say, well I've expressed my reservations. I'm honest enough to admit that my discrimination isn't perfect. So I've prayed and asked for answers.



wrote on Mar 27^th, 2007 at 4:01pm:

[quote author=recoverer link=1174596312/15#27 date=1175015318]    As far as ACIM goes, if it is not really from Jesus, and has a tendency to keep the ego alive, then i'm surprised that Bruce Moen recommends this book.   Surely his guidance would have let him know if this book wasn't the most constructive teaching in the world?  Or, in reading Bob Monroe's biography, i came to a part where some people who had attended one of his programs, asked him what he believed in, what was his life philosophy, and he simply showed them a copy of ACIM.  Bob doesn't seem to me like the gullible type when it comes to stuff like that, and he was surely rather consciously in touch with his own guidance too, probably even more so than a lot of people here.   Like Bruce Moen, wouldn't Monroe's guidance have told him to be careful of this teaching if it was a false one?

recoverer wrote on Mar 27^th, 2007 at 4:18pm:

Alysia: Why are you convinced? Isn't it possible that some of the words in the course could help a person such as yourself growth, even if they didn't come from Christ? _____ I am convinced it was channelled by The Great White Light Brotherhood, of which JC heads up because of the guide who helped me read and understand it. also, I read a biography of Helen where she attempted in the beginning to change some of the sentence structure of which her interpretor was not comfortable with, and the voice speaking to her said she was not allowed to change a single word or the writing would stop. this was clearly her own ego, and when she put herself aside, and let the spirit of Christ write through her, we now have an undistorted work to go down into history with us. I already told everybody, it doesn't matter who wrote what, it matters the content and the understanding we get from the material. _____ As I showed with my experience with a cult, people manage to grow while following teachings with a false source all the time, because there is enough within such teachings for a sincere person to make use of. _____ its ok, I told you already, if ACIM is not your cup of tea. you can get your own guidance from other sources; as for me, I asked for some reason to live, to show up, and the Course showed up and it was my lifeline to sanity. I bless you whatever your viewpoint now. like I said, this book will not be understand by the masses for centuries; it's too radical. I had help. ______ If you have a reason for knowing that the course is true other than your own growth, please let us know. ____ what do you think I'm doing here? I'm doing everything but standing on my head for you to share "what is my own growth." I can do no more than what I'm doing. _____ I've really tried to see that the course does represent the teachings of Christ, and even though positive things are said, I couldn't come to a conclusion that they are. ____ well, we have a difference of opinion right? :) drop it Albert, we won't see eye to eye. _____ I bet you I could find you all kinds of guru books that say nice things, but if you looked at what the guru is really about you would see that he isn't a master. _____ the master is within you Albert. that is what ACIM taught me. So no need to read any books anymore, not for me. _____ Don't you believe it is important to be responsible when it comes to telling people that a course does in fact come from Jesus Christ? ____ I will accept any flack coming my way, I'm ready to stand on what I say. I will never mislead anybody because it's their own choice if my words ring true. I'm ready to be burned at the stake. now, I think I actually already went thru that! lol! _____ Partly what Bruce Moen's books are about is questioning belief systems. When it comes to ACIM, are you willing to do this just a little bit? You don't have to give up your growth in order to do so. ____ look sweetie, read my lips. I found my path, I'm teaching it. I told the spirit guide I would teach this stuff and that's what Im doing. I have absolute faith in it that's it's the truth. the belief systems I do question are about the ones which came from childhood which said I was a "bad" child and therefore not worthy of being loved. those are the kinds of lies I questioned. I respect you have guides of your own but your guides are yours, mine are mine, and maybe you are not ready to give up the world, maybe I am, if you read and understand the Course, a lot of belief systems come crashing down. maybe you aren't ready. but it's ok, you are growing into the light too, my opinion from reading you over time. it's just this one item we disagree on. we can still wish each other well and I do! I hope to meet you on the other side one day! we can continue our discussion there perhaps. love, alysia

Ahso:

One other thing about Monroe and Moen okaying the book. ACIM contradicts their way of thinking in some key ways. ACIM states that we exist in the World as we do today not because this is what God wanted, but because we chose to do so all on our own.

Bruce on the other hand wrote that Consciousness wanted to explore the unknown so it created a bunch of probes. Monroe's experience of the Creator/aperture, and Bruce's experience of the Creator/aperture express the same point. Going by Moen's words the creator had a plan. This is hardly in line with we created separate from God. Us probes do what we've been created to do. Our discs send us into the physical so we can become confused for a while.

Alysia:

I don't believe that you're going to burn. I believe that your intentions are good. I'm certain that God and Christ see what is in our hearts regardless of what we read.

recoverer wrote on Mar 27^th, 2007 at 5:44pm:

Alysia: I don't believe that you're going to burn. I believe that your intentions are good. I'm certain that God and Christ see what is in our hearts regardless of what we read.

and I don't believe you're going to burn either Albert. but how did we get on this subject? I was merely making an anology about another life where every time someone gets a new idea, they get clobbered for talking about it.
yes, its only the heart language which means anything at all. and I've always like you even if you can't tell. love, alysia

[quote author=recoverer link=1174596312/30#38 date=1175031378]Ahso:

One other thing about Monroe and Moen okaying the book. ACIM contradicts their way of thinking in some key ways. ACIM states that we exist in the World as we do today not because this is what God wanted, but because we chose to do so all on our own.
____
I believe we were sucked into the gravity because we were curious beings and we started making karma for ourselves, which would explain wanting to return to get it right time after time. This is what I read from Monroe. Now he is graduated from that wheel. ACIM says God sees his children as still at home, in their beds and sleeping, having a nightmare. god knows we are safe, because we are still at home.
so whats the conflict? I see us probing our nightmares.
_____


Bruce on the other hand wrote that Consciousness wanted to explore the unknown so it created a bunch of probes.
____
yes, but we are all still exploring and interpreting. If we knew everything at once we wouldn't even be here hashing it out. if you see us as a chunk of god broken off, we are simply making our way back to god, mending the seeming separation.
_____


Monroe's experience of the Creator/aperture
____

I don't know what aperture is.
____

, and Bruce's experience of the Creator/aperture express the same point. Going by Moen's words the creator had a plan. This is hardly in line with we created separate from God
____
I still don't have a problem with this. we are dreaming that we are separate from god. in a way that is a plan. I have noticed we all have an intention for a single life, that would be us, as a part of the creator, with a plan. in a world which created good and bad, duality, hot and cold, male and female, we divide everything, we measure everything, we measure our separation from god degree by degree, on the other side there is no duality, all is one. man made a hell himself, not god made the hell, nor the war. god is a god of love. but god is not a single man with a beard up in heaven. I think u don't get it, god is in side of you, he never left. he was always there. he is life itself.
_____


. Us probes do what we've been created to do. Our discs send us into the physical so we can become confused for a while.
___
confused? its more like we forgot who we are. but we can remember if we try,  by remembering each other.
the way I think of it Albert, is we need to be more quiet and listen, instead of talking so much, the listening part can reveal all.

love, alysia

song to you: only love can break a heart, only love can mend it again..

recoverer wrote on Mar 27^th, 2007 at 3:43pm:

""Thank you for the above. I've found that if I focus my attention on my negative mental tendencies this is all they need to come into action. What's important is to let go of these tendencies and develop the will power to not live according to them.""

 Your welcome.   Dunno, maybe somewhat different for individuals.   In my own experience, sometimes i find out that i was almost completely unconscious to a certain tendency whether emotional, mental, or even physical, and its a process of becoming conscious to it, and then "transforming" it more so of then "letting it go".   Imo, you just can't let it go because its a part of you, and being a part of you, you have to work with it first by recognizing that its there, then changing it to a more constructive habit.  

 We humans are a mess of many various habits and belief systems.   How does one change a bad habit?   By replacing it with a better habit in its place.

 Letting it go, in that sense, sounds to me more like repression or supression, meaning something undesirable gets brought up, and then i shove aside or under, just don't deal with it.    Kind of like, "la la la you don't really exist..."  But then the same issue  comes up the next day, or 2 years down the line.   I've seen this type of dealing with things among some fellow spiritual students.


Quote:

""What Matthew wrote is true to an extent, but if the course doesn't contain the words of Jesus Christ, I find it really sad that millions of people are mislead by it.

 Well, its not a completely pointless question, its just one i don't have the answer too.   What may be possible is that Yeshua was working with Helen, but Helen not being a crystal clear channel, and having her own unique interpreter and deeply held belief systems (some which were probably unconscious to begin with), skewed the info somewhat in subtle ways.  

 This happens with a lot of channeled stuff to varying degrees.  The closer your own energies are to that of White Light, the more it resonates in sync with that energy, the less distortion and bias will be involved.   Vice versa with the opposite condition.


Quote:

Regarding Seth, like you, a couple of times I tuned into a bad/dark vibe when I read him. Some of the things he says about Jesus are insulting and completely false.

 Yah, and that's Seth, what does Seth have to do with ACIM?   I did not get such a clear feeling with ACIM as compared to Seth, nor did i really get a "bad/dark" vibe with ACIM, it just confused me a bit, especially the almost automatic clicking out thing.   When i've read Seth, i got a very clear feeling this was not of a consicousness even close to the vibratory speeds of those near or at Universal Consciousness.   I sensed a lot of blatant rebellion against God and the Creative Forces.  I sense a little god who has separated himself (in consciousness) from the Whole, and who thinks he is a power unto himself.    I don't get this with ACIM.  

  My problem with ACIM is not so much the fundamental princples and concepts in same, but rather more so the "delivery" of same, and as we both mentioned the focus on ego-the problem, and not enough initial focus on the solution.  


Quote:

Here's a question. If a person came up to you and insulted your family and had misrepresented them in some way, would you choose to have a conversation with this person simply because he had a few pithy things to say?""

 All are part of my family, and yes i would hear them out regardless.  I might not be too interested or enthusiastic about what they are saying, but everyone deserves to be heard.   Nor would i usually be "fooled" just because of a few interesting things they say.  

Seth and ACIM are very different.   ACIM is basically the same message over and over again, repeated in slightly different ways.  The message is pretty simple, there are only two things in this Universe, ego and God consciousness.  One is ultimately un-real and one ultimatley real, one is from us and the other from God and we always have a choice between these two expressions, the more we choose God the real reality, the more we transform our and others suffering.  Again, unlike Don's post, as i tried to point out, ACIM does not completly deny suffering, it just seems to say it was not originally necessary but meanwhile is a catalyst to eventually choose not suffering. The way its written, I think its meant to program you at a subconscious level, kind of puts you into a mild hypnosis state with its rythmn and boringness or repitition.  

  Seth speaks on many different indivdual topics, though there is a certain repeated message of what i would call "over independance" in there.  Seth's orientation and style is much more "mental" in nature.  

recoverer wrote on Mar 27^th, 2007 at 4:33pm:

Certainly Bob and Bruce could be wrong about the matter.

Certainly a possibility, though not likely a "probability" by any means.   Both strike me as highly perceptive men with a fine and innate balance between left and right brain aspects.   I am surprised that both recommend and were involved in with this book, i would be more likely to doubt it if it was just one of them.  

  Bruce is one of the few in-physical people i've tuned into in this life whom i felt was energetically beyond me in my present state, meaning their overall vibratory patterns were more speeded up than my own, more spiritually developed and closer to that standard of standards, pure White Light.   There are very few people i've sensed such amounts of golden light, with true violets and deep clear blues in relation too.  Bruce is not "perfected" or at completely At-One-Ment like Yeshua was and is, and so there is definitely room for error or skewing of info besides the normal problem of translating nonphysical info into physical means of understanding (which tends to skew by its inherent nature of translation).  But, he's overall and all in all not that "far" either vibrationally speaking in my perception.  

  So, while i don't always 100 percent agree with him and his views, i tend to at least pay close attention to what he says.  I respect the man immensely, not because of what he has done, the books he has written, his experiences or what not, but because of who he is and his emanation.    Again, there have been very few people i've sensed so much golden light in connection too.  But at the same time, i don't put him on a pedestal and i more than realize that he is a in physical human personality with limitations because he is not yet perfectly attuned to Source.

  While Bruce and i are rather different personalities in many respects with rather different specific paths, in a sense i see Bruce almost like a future me, me some 30 years down the line.  Meaning on a Soul level (not personality wise) there is a resonance or similar wavelength, and he is like a more mature version of me in that respect.  


Quote:

Perhaps they didn't ask their guidance about the course? I know of other cases where people with guidance refer to false sources of information. I've asked my guidance and I've asked Christ, and the only messages I've received including more than I've shared, have never expressed that ACIM comes from Christ.

 You speak as if guidance is a material type communication or something like that.  There are varying levels to guidance, and we are always receiving it whether we ask for it or not, its part of the in-physical "contract" or Life plan.   Sometimes we ask to not get such obvious answers and signs which tends to happen more with specific and concentrated intentions and conscious seeking, but on a Soul and feeling level we are always getting info if we open up to it.

 For someone really in touch with guidance (especially its deepest or core levels), its almost completely automatic.  They come across another energy, consciousness, book, belief system or what not, and automatically register the relative vibratory levels of such "outer" energies though of course there is "interference", "static" to varying degrees depending on their attunement to Source.   They don't have to sit there and ask, "is this true or not?"    The feel the truth or lack there of more or less clearly and more or less automatically.  

  I think both Bruce and Bob kind of fit into the above category of being able to sense the basic and underlying "essence" in other outside energies.


Quote:

I have an idea. How about everybody who is taking a part in this thread, say a prayer before they go to bed tonight, and ask for a dream that lets them know about the origin of ACIM. We'll compare notes.

 Sure, will do.  My hunch is that its kind of a mix, and perhaps Helen didn't realize the more subtle aspects of this process herself.  We humans tend to think in black and white terms so much of the time, either--or.   It could be that Jesus, Helen's ego, Helen's "higher" self, etc. were all involved in this project.   Jesus works through others, not because he needs to, but because the people he is working with, need him too.  Just because we have the Gospels, doesn't mean he isn't still working with various people and putting messages out there.

 He could have written the course in his own hand, after all he never left physically or in spirit.   What was maybe more important, was the inbetween, the process for Helen more specifically.    There are plenty of belief systems and teachings out there, which teach adequate princples and concepts, any with the base or basis of love, compassion or PUL is an important one with a deep message.   It becomes more a matter of living the truth you feel as you have written many times.   The exact "package" of the belief system isn't always the most important part.  

 Sometimes people get too hung up on the exact and specific package it comes in, predominant left brainers tend to this by their very nature and balance (really lack thereof).  

 Belief systems are like songs, they have their own unique and varying pattern of energies, and since we are individuals, we all react slightly differently to each "song" according to our own specific and relative vibratory patterns and how the two major factors "mix".  What is "constructive" and harmony for some, is not completely so for another and vice versa, though of course like with music (or anything) there can be averages and probabilities.


Quote:

I'm still open to changing my mind, if the divine powers that be tell me differently. Regarding what my intuition and intellect say, well I've expressed my reservations. I'm honest enough to admit that my discrimination isn't perfect. So I've prayed and asked for answers.

  Me too, i'm open to more info about ACIM.  Again, my hunch is that its a complex mix and not so black and white, but i'm also trying to be open to a black and white interpretation if this is actually the case.   I see that Alysia's brought up good and valid points, Don has brought up good and valid points, Roger, you, etc. have all brought up good and valid points, but is any one of us completely accurate from the most expanded level of knowing?  

  I'm must be honest, and admit that when Don brought up Helen's supposed deep depression, it really made me think about it all again and in a more critical way.   Yet, i think that Don is assuming way too much in his post and with little to go on for those assumptions.  

  The message isn't always the same thing as the messenger.  There have been over the long centuries some pretty unbalanced people trying to spread the word and message of Christ.   Is this Christ's fault or lack, or is it the individual's own freewill and lack of deeper awareness and/or livingness of such truth as exemplified by him?

 By all means, if Helen really lived these teachings, one would think that probably she would have been a more radiantly happy, joyful, centered and balanced person.   Yet, i am reminded of the old saying about Doctors and them often not following their own advice when it comes to them.

 Also, i brought up very valid possibilities outside of the spiritual and psychological, which could account for Helen's emotional-mental state, such as the nature and little understood role of sometimes purely physical causes in relation to emotional-mental states.  

 It seemed all to easy and cavelier for Don to just assume and so seemingly strongly that Helen's psychological state before her death was directly related to her having been a channel for ACIM and any possibly nonphysical consciousnesses.   It seemed like a "convenient fix" to explain things, though at first glance it does give us pause to consider more deeply.   I am reminded of Jane Roberts and her channeling.   Jane was not a happy camper by any means before she died, or so it seems.   Again, was this directly related to her channeling or was it more physical in nature?

 Depression and severe emotional-mental imbalance are deep and complex issues with many potential factors involving any and all "levels" of being, sometimes mostly simultaneously, sometimes not.  Definitely not "one size fits all", though again there are certain averages one can notice.

 An interesting example is Cayce.   Cayce had some pretty deeply depressed periods in his life (which he overcame and transformed eventually), and one of the deeper reasons given for this by his guidance was because in another life he had killed himself in a needless and destructive manner, and his life as Cayce was interwined strongly with this other life and so there was a strong affect.   But his body-physical was also rather consisently imbalanced from more physical causes (as mentioned numerous times by his guidance), and this was a strong factor as well.   And of course, there often were other factors behind karmic and physical-body wise.   Sometimes he was really "tested" by very challening outer conditions and people in his life.

recoverer wrote on Mar 27^th, 2007 at 5:36pm:

Ahso: One other thing about Monroe and Moen okaying the book. ACIM contradicts their way of thinking in some key ways. ACIM states that we exist in the World as we do today not because this is what God wanted, but because we chose to do so all on our own. Bruce on the other hand wrote that Consciousness wanted to explore the unknown so it created a bunch of probes. Monroe's experience of the Creator/aperture, and Bruce's experience of the Creator/aperture express the same point. Going by Moen's words the creator had a plan. This is hardly in line with we created separate from God. Us probes do what we've been created to do. Our discs send us into the physical so we can become confused for a while.

 Yup, and yet both still recommended this book, strange huh?   Why do you think?  

 Interestingly, Cayce's readings are more in line with ACIM on this aspect of things, than with Moen or Monroe, and yet i still highly respect and listen carefully to the latter's info...

Strange huh, all these inconsistencies, disagreements, and yet deep respect all mixed up together.

 Dunno, its pretty pointless arguing belief systems.   Someday i will completely change this non-constructive habit to a more constructive one i hope.  Time to practice.

Quote:

Then newbies will not post. They will think we are all holy rollers. worshiping an antique god and bowing before his majesty who has come to save us from delusion.

?


Quote:

I stand convicted ACIM is the voice of JC

?

Ahso:

I brought up Seth because you provided a Matthew quote that included the name Seth.

Regarding what Don said about Helen's depression, outside of the fact that I question whether Christ would channel himself in the manner supposedly done with ACIM, would he choose to do so with a woman who ended up becoming deeply depressed? Would a lady who had so much contact with Christ end up depressed?

Regarding dreams about the matter, I asked for one last night, and received one.

I entered a railed car that was bigger than railroad cars tend to be. Especially in terms of it's width. On the side opposite of the side I entered, the guru I used to follow and his supposedly enlightened side kick were in attendance along with their followers. I can't remember the precise feeling, but it seemed odd to be there with them because there was a general understading that these two men weren't the enlightened beings they claimed to be. When it came to the sidekick, the issue of what will happen to him when he moves onto the afterlife came up.  There was a young man in attendence who was in trouble and wanted to get help from this sidekick after the meeting was over.

Just before I exited the railroad car I noticed how detailed the gizmos were by the railroad car's entrance and exit. The dream became super lucid and I realized I was dreaming. I took some time to notice how real everything sempt.

After doing so I existed the railroad car with another guy. There were a lot of people walking round. I noticed this lady walk by who has been used as a symbol for my connection to Christ. She is kind of angelic looking. I told the guy I was with that I have to go, because when I meet up with this lady we usually dance.  She walzed with a man in a public circle where other people waltzed. I stood next to her as she did so because I wanted to look at her beauty real closely. I saw that all over her body she had imperfections coming out of her skin. Black molds and such. She stopped dancing with the man so I could cut in, but I ended up dancing with the man who was sort of a doofess.

My feeling is that the lady represented my trying to make contact with Christ through ACIM. Pretty when you glimpse superficially, but when you look real closely you find impurities. The black spots reminded of a message I received one time about how people have spotted Christ's reputation. She passed on the guy to me because it was time to say goodbye to her and ACIM.

The waltzing in a circle is a way of stating that ACIM cycles the same concepts over and over again without ever getting anywhere.

The meeting with the guru I used to see took place in a railroad car, because it was a way of saying that I was being railroaded when I was with him and his sidekick. The young guy in trouble was a symbolic way of saying the troubled asking the troubled for help. In the end he asked for help from a man who's own destiny is dubious (we're talking about a man who has really manipulated a lot of people). I experienced something relating to my old cult in order to show what ACIM is about.

Some people might say that something more definite pertaining to ACIM is needed in order for me to make the connections I made. I know from experience that if I ask a specific question before I go to sleep, I tend to get an answer to the question I asked. I also get feelings and thoughts when I go over a dream and ACIM came into my mind. I also believe that the super lucidity I experienced served this purpose.

Albert, would u please stop associating ACIM as a cult. I do not appreciate this kind of slam from someone I respect, or used to respect. it is not a cult, will never be one, and I'm sorry that you had a bad experience with a cult in your lifetime.
this set of material is a self study couse and you get out of it what u put into it.

a cult on the other hand is where a group of people go to an island and feel forced into drinking coolaid so they can go to heaven whatever. usually there is a charismatic leader, such as a Hitler type.

ACIM on the other hand does not force you into any thoughts or actions, and if you cannot feel the unconditional love emanating from it's pages, you simply can make a choice to put it down and go pick up other material more suited to you.
now if you don't mind, let's put this thread to sleep. and i'm not going to let you keep me from talking about the benefits I derived from reading the course and for the FIRST time in my life I felt that god loved me just as I was, faults, black spots, whatever! I AM loved! You are loved too, and I'm going to keep on loving you no matter how much you slam my pathway as a cult. because this is what it taught me.

now leave it alone please. you're making me feel like shit. btw, I have guides the same as you, lets not get into that. last night I dreamed you fell flat on your face in the sand. you did it for me. I know you're doing this for me. I know we love each other. I know you're part of my disc. you put on a show for me, falling on your face. I brushed the sand off your face, I thought u were hurt but you weren't. I laughed and laughed, you were so funny, and you did it for me. you did it for love.

take care. alysia

Quote:

Benedict Groeschel, a priest and psychologist, was close enough to Helen to be asked to give a eulogy at her funeral in 1981.  Benedict writes: “This woman who had written so eloquently that suffering really did not exist spent the last two years of her life in THE BLACKEST PSYCHOTIC DEPRESSION I have ever witnessed. “

I find it interesting and odd that someone who was probably hostile to the process was asked to speak at her funeral....

Found the same thing at another site:


Quote:

Fr. Benedict J. Groeschel, C.F.R. is a psychologist who was an acquaintance of Hellen Schucman.  He gave a eulogy at her funeral. Fr. Groeschel wrote:   "This woman who had written so eloquently that suffering really did not exist spent the last two years of her life in the blackest psychotic depression I have ever witnessed."  [26]

ref "[26] (Page 79 of, "A Still, Small Voice, A Practical Guide On Reported Revelations", by Fr. Benedict J. Groeschel, C.F.R., Ignatius Press 1993) "

from site
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina31214.htm

(interesting site by ex-Muslims who are opposed to that religion on philosophical grounds).

What does Ken Wapnick say about helen Schucman's last two years?

Why is this same thing quoted over and over?

http://www.ewtn.com/library/NEWAGE/COURSE.TXT

Of course, if it was on Eternal Word Television Network; it must be correct.

But in reading over this essay, it occurred to me that the different Christian divisions each like to claim they ate the one that got it right, so I guess the criticism of the Course is just an extension of that process.

________________

alternate view? I'm out of time and can't explore thisnow:

http://www.beliefnet.com/boards/message_list.asp?pageID=2&discussionID=157045&messages_per_page=4

well I never trust the media reports-they speak from their own interpretation and words.

furthermore, we all go through depression periods in our lives. seems to be a part of the human condition. here on this site we simply call it a belief system crash.
as we grow no matter the means that we grow and become, we will go through uncomfortable periods which can be interpreted by others as depression, or somehow not right, bad, or whatever.
I rather enjoy crashes and welcome my periods of morbidness...I know I will come out on the other side of that and I feel that Helen contributed to life a great service, as she was a psychologist who saw that the establishment and the "rules" just weren't working anymore.

her and Ken used to have fights all the time, round and round their egos battled, year after year. how redundant huh? so they one day prayed together.
this is how the Course got started. They prayed together for an answer to stop the bickering.
It was a last ditch effort, as they worked together. The situation of disagreeing and nit picking had to end; they couldn't just walk away from their relationship, their careers were on the line.
Prayer always works if one is sincere. It's a release, an acknowledgment that we are stuck and need help. It's a giving up of a repetitive pattern which leads nowhere but to more of the same. after years of such bickering anybody would throw of their hands and say I can't deal with it anymore.
also people like social workers, pychologists, nurses, these people are in the helper professions. day after day they come in contact with those of us who are suffering and looking to these for answers. too often these experience "burn out."
especially when nothing you can say helps the situation, and the standard rules of dealing with the folks who we call mental, or schizo, all these labels for illness, the book learning only goes so far and quits.
Burn out means you have to change careers or build up your reserves of strength somehow to continue.
Instead, her and Ken had enough wisdom to discuss their problems and they decided to pray, even though I don't think they were into religion.
so they were reaching for a straw while they were drowning. I see this happen all the time. when you "give up" thats when an answer comes.

and find your answers inside yourself...not in the news by somebody who thinks they have an important opinion..if they are not coming from love, they are merely bolstering up their own fears and projecting it out onto somebody else out there.
we project all the time and listen to the one who has the loudest voice but we don't need to listen to vexatious people anymore..they don't know any more than us.

love, alysia

augoeideian wrote on Mar 28^th, 2007 at 9:32am:

Quote: Then newbies will not post. They will think we are all holy rollers. worshiping an antique god and bowing before his majesty who has come to save us from delusion. ? [quote]I stand convicted ACIM is the voice of JC

?

[/quote]

JC spirit is still on Earth Caryn. everytime you do a retrieval the spirit of compassion is the same as what he preached; u don't think just because his body of flesh is gone that he's not interested in us anymore do you?   we are all going to be ok no matter what your eyes tell you. his spirit speaks thru any who will let the message come into the mind. I'm part of his disc because I want to be, and this is a choice. if I relate to Christ consciousness as a human/spirit its because I'm a human/spirit and need that personal touch.  and if anyone is bothered that I do this, just consider this is my focus point right now because of what I felt and heard while experiencing the course concepts internally with a huge presence beside me asking me to make the effort to follow thru with the study before I let myself die of an illness.
 we don't have to agree that it is his voice to hear what the message is, to love one another. one of the affirmations is "I and my brothers are one. I trust my brothers who are one with me. Then if you believe this, you see something beautiful in everyone you meet, the way he did. If I didn't believe this, I'd be having a much more difficult time with my life instead of the peace which descended which passes understanding.
JC's image is distorted in the new age of which I am a part. the body of Christ is still active though, in PUL and can disperse itself through any means at it's disposal, books included.
like I said, he wouldn't be accepted to come back as flesh and blood, thats like asking aliens to make an appointment with the president. lol, take me to your leader! har! The security guards would go nuts!!

I hope the Christians aren't expecting that to happen...you gotta go within, not without. I don't think intellect is gonna get us anywhere though, as we just go round and round. love is the only answer. and equality within love.
now let me get off my podium, lol. we are all one. love appears to be a mere decision to trust and allow.

and I wouldn't be here alive if not for the Course. many of us die young because it's not easy staying alive. we all have our struggles here; thats what the Earth is about...lol..its not another day in paradise like an old friend used to say but I appreciated his positive nature.
oh, these words, are just words, twice removed from reality so no need to get uptight over just words. we'll all be meeting up at the same destination soon enough and the view looks good from where I'm at.
http://images.bravenet.com/common/images/smilies/grouphug.gif

  I believe that Yeshua is still very much using a physical vehicle, and has been for a long "time" from a linear perspective.  

 I believe that "He/She" of Monroe's 3rd book, is actually Yeshua sort of in disguise, or laying low more so.   As Monroe perceived, He/She was very much a physically incarnate person in our space/time cycle.   In fact, that's how Monroe ended up meeting He/She, because he set an intention to his Total/Higher self to 'meet the most mature person living in my space/time', and his T.S. said yeah sure, but it might not be what you expect.   Boy was it ever not what he expected and quite a pleasant and perhaps at first confusing surprise.   Monroe was especially surprised not ever being relgious at all and thinking very little of Christianity.

 A some 1800 year old human who doesn't eat nor sleep at all, but just constantly works different jobs, and someone seemingly known about from certain things Monroe says (man i wish i could quote this book verbatim!).  I wish i could have seen the looks on his face after he was told He/She's approximate age and all the just above, and when he figured out exactly who this person was.  Probably went something like.. :o, then maybe ;D  

 Yep, Yeshua has been with us both in Spirit and in body since the Resurrection.  He promised he would never leave, and he hasn't except for the those 3 days of hanging out purely in the nonphysical dimensions.

 Oh, and he will go public again, just as he promised or as he said channeled through one TMI explorer, 'do not expect me in the form of a man, the time has not yet come yet' and also says, 'in truth i never left'.  Will still be awhile yet before mass public appearances, and he won't go public until other Christed Beings (both human and non-human) make some appearances in-physical to get the Crowd ready for his return ;) (different reasons for this, but mostly to emphasize Universality and that no one is special and above any other).   Once they do, and once people are ready, he will walk and talk with groups and individuals for awhile, but then leaving again so that we can concentrate on spiritually developing to his state.  

 This all will be after the major part of the physical aspect of the changes and the destruction of various governments and the overall "civilization" (which isn't so civil to begin with).   Some "messengers" for and from him, will show up even during the middle of these changes.

I wonder which book Monroe discusses meeting he/she? Far Journeys probably? I've forgotten all about this part.
a couple of people I know are reporting having talked out there with JC or Yeshua. I think I like the name Yeshua better just because of the distortions on the name Jesus.

I really believe my friends when they try to describe these meetings even though my own familiar feeling stems through a group of spirits asking me to choose ego power or the way of JC. duh. I wasn't in a position to start arguing! ;D    I almost remembered the man at that point, or just the love part. so I believe my friends when they say they made contact, its just really hard to describe such things, and they become embedded as precious memories so you don't want to talk about them much, as you get heaps of negativity usually.

thats good to hear, the things you say Justin. you remind me of a visionary. makes sense about preparation too. timing, all of that, syncronization of events. even shades of destiny for mankind, but if someone announced today they were the Christ returned, specifically Yeshua, I don't think anyone would believe him, and it could be that he would be able to manifest in more than one physical body, as a matter of fact I'm certain of this. in destiny of souls its reported our higher selves do not put our totality within the flesh vehicle and this would account for limited C1 mentality, always striving to complete itself and be whole. and also Destiny of souls reports one soul being able to have two lives at the same time, in different parts of the world. having 3 lives at same time is not recommended as safe. :)

hey! spreading yourself a little thin old bean? ::) what we might say to someone with too many irons in the fire.
must be part of that experiment thing I heard about.

well, these things we talk about must sound really strange to some, like science fiction..what a board..what a board!

 Hi there Alysia,

 The account of Monroe meeting Heshe is in his 3rd book, Ultimate Journey, and more specifically runs from the bottom of page 50, to the top of page 55.  Fairly brief overall, but they have quite an interesting "conversation", which includes the topic of the Changes and the probable severity of them, etc.

The channeling of Christ by a TMI explorer, is in Far Journeys starting on page 60 and ending on 61.

 Yah, i'm sure this stuff will sound pretty strange to some.  Many question, "but why would Yeshua stay in physical?  What need is there?"  They automatically dismiss the idea, they do not realize that true service encompasses helping in all dimenions all the time, for we are "stuck" in all dimensions (to varying degrees) and its only when we phase to a dimensionless state of being, that we are truly and completely free and yet then we can partake of any and every other dimension such as our elder brother who is our second father as well--as Yeshua says at the end of that TMI explorer session, "my children, abide in me".   This is not just a nice saying, this is truth.


Quote:

even shades of destiny for mankind, but if someone announced today they were the Christ returned, specifically Yeshua, I don't think anyone would believe him,

You're right, many would not believe him today, many did not even believe or see his true nature when he was public before, and so the circle cycles, one note and pattern of notes gets played again, and again, and again.   Even some of his friends and family doubted him, even with material "proofs" of his abilities gained from full Source resonation.



Quote:

and it could be that he would be able to manifest in more than one physical body, as a matter of fact I'm certain of this.

Surely, and he exists everywhere all the time, so don't we, we just don't fully realize it yet, nor do we tap into like he can.  He could show up to every single human in the Earth at the same time, in a physical body, and meanwhile show up to all nonphysical consciousnesses in nonphysical "form" as well, all simultaneously.  This is what "infinity" means, it is limitless because its all encompassing.


Quote:

in destiny of souls its reported our higher selves do not put our totality within the flesh vehicle and this would account for limited C1 mentality, always striving to complete itself and be whole. and also Destiny of souls reports one soul being able to have two lives at the same time, in different parts of the world. having 3 lives at same time is not recommended as safe.

 It must be remembered that many of the personalities and their Total selves which were "interviewed" in his books, are not particularly spiritually developed, many of them what some might call "young Souls" (though this is really a misnomer).    Thus, the highest and most broad info does not come through necessarily though the overall picture is more or less correct when synthesized.

 As far as having multiple selves occupying physical bodies within the same time/space cycle, in reality this is not much different than the simultaneous all lives from various time/spaces happening at once, theory.   What happens is that material minded consciousnesses get stuck on space and time, on numbers.   The Soul in touch with its true nature, is not limited by these.   However, at the same time, why would a Soul fully in touch with its true nature and i mean completely such as a Yeshua/Heshe type, why would they need multiple lifetimes going on?   They wouldn't, its much more pragmatic to keep it too one projection within space/time yet that self not being limited by space or time.  

  Oft, those who have 2, 3, or more lifetimes going on within the same space/time cycle, are more spiritually developed than the average (but not yet completed), and are seeking to balance much karma, fulfill many things, etc. in a more concentrated and swift way.  The more spiritually developed, the less and less limitations within space/time and being limited to such.  It is no biggy for a very developed Total self to have many lives within same space/time, there is no real drain for these are like holograpic images of the real self, the core, the essence, the projector and the Light which projects the images.  

  What limitations there are, are the lack of available material bodies within a material world, and particularly more ideal condtions around same.  We do not individually control that, unless we create a body from scratch.    Yeshua did this in other space/time cycles which were faster vibrating than ours has been up to very recently.  

  This Total self, projected such personalities into the material without the necessity of birth, such as the Priest King of Salem, or otherwise known as  Melchizedek the perfected.   This was and is an aspect of Yeshua's Total self, who was created or rather manifested into physical without the experience of birth, or of physical death.   He phased fully into body, and fully out with body.

  Yet, this takes a particularly developed Total self to accomplish and special conditions as determined by the Creative forces within the Whole.  Not many could do this now, as of yet, and so the body numbers and numbers of Total selves looking to get lifetimes in this unusual cycle is a very real "limitation", and will be even more so after the physical part of the changes culminates.   Won't be too many Total selves then running around with more than 2 selves in that space/time cycle.  


Quote:

hey! spreading yourself a little thin old bean?  what we might say to someone with too many irons in the fire. must be part of that experiment thing I heard about.

  At one point, i believe i had 3 lifetimes/personalities going on in this space/time.  One died a little while ago.   There was such a draw to this man (close to my age), which i couldn't explain and when asked a sensitive, i got the answer, "he is your psychic twin", now i realize we was an aspect of my immediate "disc" as Bruce puts it.  Interestingly we had some similar abilities, inclinations, personality aspects, and even physical looks had a good amount of resemblance.  

 His first name was/is John, and i have at least 2 other Johns within my Disc that i know of from different time/space cycles, and it seems that this "present" John was a bit more interwined with these other Johns, more so than i Justin (though i've dealt with issues from those Johns as well).  And so his life was a bit more on the darker path than my own, balancing difficult karma from those two very extreme and destructive to others lives.   Probably also why he exited at a young age, our Total self probably thought he was somewhat stuck in that path he was at, and since i'm around and decided to stick around, it was ok for him to take his rest in the nonphysical and to continue the journey.

 He was very happy to have transitioned.  I had a very warm dream about him taking up a new residence in a "dorm" like area, and he was very happy.   A couple or few weeks later, an old friend and mutual aquaintance of ours, called up and blurted out, "you know John ..... just died a little while ago, a car accident!"   I was a bit surprised when i heard this, but then this dream popped into my awareness and i realized what it was about and that i already knew because we had visited and he let me know what happen.  I hadn't remembered having a dream about him for at least a year or two before i had that recent dream then.  

  I did not feel sad at all, because i knew he is happy in his new life.  

Are you an avid book reader Justin? you seem to have a lot of knowledge from past centuries. and I was noticing your tag, is that your birthdate Jan.9?  for some reason I thought you were a Leo or Virgo but Jan 9 is Capricorn I think.

nine is a very good number, looks like you're going to finish up then! yay!
thanks for the page numbers of Bob's books, I just went and re-bought them I'll check it out.
were you born in Los Angeles like me? :) in 1980 would make you only 27 or so.
I was just wondering how someone as young as you can have all this book knowledge, so it must be you brought some of this with you in memory? thats a little unusual but does happen. hope you are not overwhelmed with the memories. I guess you are getting some help handling it. thats my feeling.
you have two others with you..they are both male, but you are the leader of them, I think they learn from you mostly, and they seem younger if that means anything. they consider themselves your aids. they are not in a physical body.

love, alysia

LaffingRain wrote on Mar 30^th, 2007 at 5:49am:

Are you an avid book reader Justin? you seem to have a lot of knowledge from past centuries. and I was noticing your tag, is that your birthdate Jan.9?  for some reason I thought you were a Leo or Virgo but Jan 9 is Capricorn I think.

 Hi Alysia,

 I use to be an avid book reader, not so much anymore.  I've given a lot of books away, though my collection is still somewhat large.

  Yup, i'm a CappyFull of korn, but my birthday is Jan. 8th.   9 is my "Life path" or "Destiny" number indication (add all the birthdate numbers up).  It's really 27 which reduces to 9.   Got a lot of 9, 3, and 7 indications in my full numerological chart.   It's odd how it keeps repeating, even when i use my full birth name, or my more common name.

 Are you into numerology too?

 Hey, Leo and Virgo are good guesses though, i have Leo Rising, and our Rising sign's correspond to our physical body and temerament, kind of like our personality--so i definitely do act like a Leo sometimes (i'm too open and self expressive sometimes).   And i have a pretty good dose of Virgo as well, with North Node, Jupiter, Mars, and Saturn all in Virgo.

 I don't really go by the signs as much as some students of astrology, i generally look more to the Planetary forces, i see signs as more "wavering" indications.   Jupiter is my 1st and strongest, Uranus-Neptune about equal and 2nd, Venus and Mercury pretty strong.   Developing Solar consciousness more and more.  

Btw, we both have Libra Moon, i believe.


Quote:

nine is a very good number, looks like you're going to finish up then! yay! thanks for the page numbers of Bob's books, I just went and re-bought them I'll check it out.

 Don't know, i suppose its possible, i've gotten guidance and dreams along that line, but i'm trying to be unattached to stuff like that.   Your welcome for the info.  What's your life path number if you don't mind me asking?


Quote:

were you born in Los Angeles like me? :) in 1980 would make you only 27 or so. I was just wondering how someone as young as you can have all this book knowledge, so it must be you brought some of this with you in memory? thats a little unusual but does happen. hope you are not overwhelmed with the memories. I guess you are getting some help handling it. thats my feeling. .

  Yup, i was.  I got smog lungs :D    I'm young?   Well, i feel and have felt pretty "old" most of my life.   Unfortunately i look very young even for my age, if i don't keep the full goat-tee, i look like i'm 17 or so some have told me.

  I didn't really come in with a lot of specific memories as in definite images, and what not, but i came in with a lot of feelings about things.   When i hit puberty (and boy did it hit hard), i started to think a lot about God, the nature of the Universe, the Soul, and stuff like that.   I felt on a deep level that all things were connected, that there is a oneness, and i sensed that there were other realities or dimensions beside the physical.   I also started investigating psychism because i have always been able to read people really well, and i noticedearly on the "people registering the feeling of being looked at" phenomenon.

 When i read or picked up books, i went more by the feeling i got in relation to that book, there were some books which had interesting stuff in them from a mental or intellectual standpoint, but i just didn't get the feeling to read them or in some cases got a definite feeling i should NOT read or more so listen to them.   Other books, like Bruce's, Rosiland's for example, i got very good feelings about and innately trusted a lot of the info.   It seems i was pretty open to guidance about being led to certain books, ideas, belief systems, and other people.

  While i have a pretty developed left brain capacity and tendency, some things i really easily accepted early on, like it was an automatic knowing, stuff like about Yeshua and him really actually having revivified his physical vehicle after he died, stuff which for most left brainer types, would normally be pretty hard to believe in or even contemplate as real or truthful.  Nor was any of it indoctrinated.

  But, all in all, i don't consider myself that consciously and actively psychic, i'm not here to develop psychism and psychic abilities.  I think sometimes people, especially like folks on sites like this one, don't really understand that.  Course, i'm as curious as most here, but it just feels like my C1 issues are more important of a focus.

  Do you know anything about the Nodes in astrology?  They are very old symbols used, which are not actual planets, but the intersection points relating to the Sun, Moon, and Earth positions.    Astrologers and astronomers use them to figure out when we will have a Solar or Lunar eclipse.  

 In astrology, some more spiritual or karmic oriented astrologers, give a lot of weight and deeper meaning to these two symbols, the North and South Node.   The North node more or less symbolizes one's more "Dharmic" path, and the South Node represents one's major Karmic pool, what you developed too, gifts, abiltities and/or weaknesses from other experiences brought in.  
Oft times the South Node has a really strong "pull of the past" symbolically speaking, meaning we can become too attached to our South Nodes, become too comfortable within that expression because its familiar.    But, the North node calls to what we are not as familiar with, and takes us out of our comfort zone, hence it can be difficult to move into the North Node direction, but its also the direction of greater growth.  Ideally, these will become perfectly balanced and merged one with the other, and instead of two separate parts, it will become a Whole.

  I definitely recommend checking our your own North and South Node placements (they are always exactly opposite each other).    Anyways, my North node (dharmic path) is in Virgo and in the 1st house, meaning i'm here to focus on Virgo like issues and themes more so.   Virgo is the discriminator and analyzer of the Zodiac, its really good at seeing the individual parts and seeing their relative relationships to each other.   Also deals with health, diet, work/jobs, and material stuff like that since its an "earth" sign.  

  Pisces South Node signifies someone who spent a lot of time and focus on mystical, psychical,  and spiritual matters, and/or serving others along those lines .   Pisces is the most energy sensitive  and receptive symbol in the Zodiac, it's very right brain and is the personafication of the element Water (fluid to the nth degree), whereas Virgo is very left brain.  

 In my life, i've actually had to get away from focussing on that too much--in a sense getting away from Pisces or more so trying to balance it with Virgo which for a time requires more concentration on Virgo till they come into a greater balance, i'm here more to concentrate on the nitty gritty of C1 and its issues.   I get the sense that once i've mastered my Virgo lessons, and use Virgo only positively, then that other side of me, the Piscean psychic and mystic side will become fully conscious and active.  

 Both the opposite signs Virgo and Pisces represents service (but on different levels, Virgo more so C1 service, and Pisces more so spiritual guidance type), it is the axis of service.

 Interestingly, what my chart describes symbolically, some sensitives/intuitives have strongly picked up on as well, and pretty much said something similar to the above.  A couple have told me that i have unbelievable potential and innate talents/abilities for psychic awareness and development, but that it is being blocked right now.


Quote:

you have two others with you..they are both male, but you are the leader of them, I think they learn from you mostly, and they seem younger if that means anything. they consider themselves your aids. they are not in a physical body

 Thanks for the info, don't know what it means, but i will keep an open mind and heart in regards to it.  

With PUL

P.S., i don't think Albert was trying to hurt you at all with his words about ACIM.  He has a good heart and means well, he's just skeptical and wary of anything which seems to try to brainwash people.   It may be that he hasn't let go of his past enough, but that's a different subject and its not our place to judge.

 Personally, i think there is a lot of good in ACIM, but in any case, ideally it shouldn't matter too much to you, what either Albert, i, or anyone think or say about ACIM.   If it's helped you, then that's all that matters, be secure within yourself.   ACIM teaches that's it's not helpful to worry about what others say, do or think, just ourselves.

 Sometimes some say critical or derogatory stuff about the Cayce readings, which i'm attached to and very fond of, but i when others do that, i realize that it doesn't really need any defense, the material speaks for itself (look how many have been helped physically/health wise, mental, and/or spiritually by it), and so what if someone doesn't fully understand or accept things in there?   I also keep in mind and heart that they are not personally putting me down, when they put down something i'm fond of and attached to.

 

Justin quote:

 Are you into numerology too?
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in a superficial way. I do the reduction thing automatically if I get numbers in dream, I reduce them and try to decipher the meaning of the numbers. I like 9 and 11 as my favorite numbers. nine finishes, 11 is a top spiritual number, but I don't read numerology or astrology anymore, I'm into psychology more than anything else.  I find astrology is  mathematical, which I am right brained, not left brained, and the left I associate with numbers. Im into the music where that is also based on mathmatics, but in a different way than astrology.   it is a mathematical universe. I like to use astrology as a way to be sociable, and found the descriptions of the energy of each sign, I have compared to the folks I've met, it's always what the book said concerning sun signs but I look no further than the sun sign in general, too many variables to keep in mind and can't put people in a box as they always manage to climb out of it!! lol. good thing too..
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Btw, we both have Libra Moon, i believe.
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yes we do. what does that mean according to the book?
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[quote]nine is a very good number, looks like you're going to finish up then! yay!
thanks for the page numbers of Bob's books, I just went and re-bought them I'll check it out.
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 Don't know, i suppose its possible, i've gotten guidance and dreams along that line, but i'm trying to be unattached to stuff like that.
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yes, sorry to flatter you unduly. I just like the nine number as I like to finish tasks before I start on another, so I associate this number as a good finish number.
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 What's your life path number if you don't mind me asking?
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lol. I played a little game. I renamed myself Alysia so I could take my first and last name and make it an 11.
so what all is the official, right way to get your number, and what if you don't like your number?  :D  I think you said take the birthdate, added to the name vibe? I think I can be any number I want, so I don't follow the rules :)
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  Well, i feel and have felt pretty "old" most of my life.
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I started out old too. I'm young feeling now. its a great feeling to be a kid again. I just decided it was ok if I want to feel young.
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  While i have a pretty developed left brain capacity and tendency, some things i really easily accepted early on, like it was an automatic knowing, stuff like about Yeshua and him really actually having revivified his physical vehicle after he died, stuff which for most left brainer types, would normally be pretty hard to believe in or even contemplate as real or truthful.  Nor was any of it indoctrinated.
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the fact that you easily accept some non  mainstream concepts is where your potential lies in serving others. as you say, it was not indoctrinated and there is the key.
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  But, all in all, i don't consider myself that consciously and actively psychic, i'm not here to develop psychism and psychic abilities.
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we can begin I feel to put a new slant on things though, and instead of going around saying, yehoo, I'm psychic, we can just say my awareness has expanded to include concepts and perceptions about life that formerly were not there...you know, that word psychic has to go as it causes separatism, my opinion.
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  Do you know anything about the Nodes in astrology?
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only what u mention here, and I just learned from you that nodes are relative to movement of the planets, movement is relative to time, time and space are one thing.
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  I definitely recommend checking our your own North and South Node placements (they are always exactly opposite each other).  
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at age 60 I feel I don't have a lot of time to check out my south and north nodes anymore, lol!  I hve too many irons in the fire to do the intense study of astrology as it is a lot of calculation, but I'm going to do piano, so that is mathmatical too as it has the internal counting to do.
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 A couple have told me that i have unbelievable potential and innate talents/abilities for psychic awareness and development, but that it is being blocked right now.
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I only accept positive comments from others. I can feed myself enough negatives to last a lifetime..
I think I've told you this before..I don't know but that you felt something when you met me..long time ago...I feel I found you out there and  asked you to come to this board. It was an obe situation.
I saw you were sitting by yourself and I told you I had once felt the same way as you and I wanted your help on a project I had planned. I talked to you a long time about the abilities I saw within you..out there, we discussed this. shortly after our talk you showed up here and I recognized you. I was looking for people to come here..I wanted the best of the best. I found you and saw you could grow here, you could find yourself here with us. and you fulfilled all my expectations of you for what it's worth and I know there's more ahead.
we sure did crash each other's walls, didn't we?  :D  or maybe I needed you more than you needed to be here, so I've thought about that some and concluded it was a mutual agreement. you called it "being friends a long time." still don't see another time frame affiliation, but don't think in linear time, so can't say for sure. not sure if it's important and I never treat for my own miracle, so I think it was meant to be as it occurred.
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you have two others with you..they are both male, but you are the leader of them, I think they learn from you mostly, and they seem younger if that means anything. they consider themselves your aids. they are not in a physical body
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what I saw this time about these two entitiies is that you help them more with their evolvement than they help you with yours; sort of a vow you made with these to serve them by letting them serve you.
I also saw this picture of the 3 of you in a war zone somewhere, 3 close buddies who knew if they stuck together, they had more of a chance of surviving, staying alive, at that time a strong bond of love developed, as it would in such circumstances, to be looking out for one another, saving each other and protecting each other. you may have saved their lives and now they try to repay you.  they may be invisible guides, they may be in service to learn how to guide, to be helpful. one is more volatile than the other, but you can deal with him easily through your love. they are, and you are very much into understanding energy chakras, and making a type of reiki adjustment on those chakras, this to be developed later on in life. they participate with you in these type of healings much like observer/trainees.
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You didn't ask for all that, I'm just sharing what I saw in my mind. throw it away if it is not useful or helpful as thats my only intention to share what I saw.
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P.S., i don't think Albert was trying to hurt you at all with his words about ACIM.
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we had a long talk privately. I shared a dream. I love Albert unconditionally. we are at a balance again. I understand his experiences a little better.
thanks for your understanding, I get too attached to my own path emotionally. then I can get on my silly podium..god help me. just laugh me off.
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 Personally, i think there is a lot of good in ACIM, but in any case, ideally it shouldn't matter too much to you, what either Albert, i, or anyone think or say about ACIM.
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yes, precisely true..it shouldn't matter what others think. even ACIM says that. this was all for my benefit so I could make an ass of myself. that was fun.
I guess I need to be able to do that once in awhile and still be able to get over it with friends. thanks for your leavening skills while I uncorked myself.
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 I also keep in mind and heart that they are not personally putting me down, when they put down something i'm fond of and attached to.
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sometimes people get over protective of others too, where they may think you are misled and they want to protect you from your..ah...distorted ideas...so it still means they are coming from their perception of what love is...so it's easy to keep that in mind, and not take it personally..if I can just remember this.. :)

  thanks for the chat...love, alysia

LaffingRain wrote on Mar 26^th, 2007 at 11:15pm:

you Don are the saddest person I have ever met in my life. you are like the antiChrist to me and I never used to believe in the antiChrist until just now. goodbye forever Don. Such bad vibes waft off your posts.

Whoa-
This is a disturbing little tantrum!  Goodbye forever?  Doesn't the Course teach that Don is your brother?  That you'll be spending eternity with him?  If you really adhere to the Course's teaching why do respond as though you are genuinely threatened?  Does having a difference of opinion make someone the antiChrist? Honestly! Don deserves an apology and you should practice some of the tolerance and compassion that the Course teaches.  This venomous and childish response reveals some serious problems in the spiritual path that you have undertaken:  perhaps it just doesn't work for you.

indigo13 wrote on Jun 7^th, 2007 at 3:26pm:

LaffingRain wrote on Mar 26th, 2007 at 11:15pm: you Don are the saddest person I have ever met in my life. you are like the antiChrist to me and I never used to believe in the antiChrist until just now. goodbye forever Don. Such bad vibes waft off your posts.

oh please can u remove this reminder of my post to Don, Indigo?  I've moved much further now. I surely was in an emotional state to say that. I admit I used to see Don's purpose on this board for many years to be in direct opposition to any new age type of thing, but I had to admit the opposing viewpoint only makes the other viewpoint gain strength, for what is resisted, if it is the truth, it will prevail in the end.

and basically what the problem was, Don did not think any of our retrievals were valid, and he wished to do one himself but felt he could not do one.
I think he can do a retrieval, but it's up to his soul, his own higher self when and where and not for me to judge him in any way.

nah, I don't believe in antichrist, but there is a negative energy on the earth which we must guard against to not let it come into our house, our soul.
keep positive. we will be shown everything we need to know for the day at hand.
love, alysia

Indigo said: Whoa-
This is a disturbing little tantrum!  Goodbye forever?  Doesn't the Course teach that Don is your brother?  That you'll be spending eternity with him?  If you really adhere to the Course's teaching why do respond as though you are genuinely threatened?  Does having a difference of opinion make someone the antiChrist? Honestly! Don deserves an apology and you should practice some of the tolerance and compassion that the Course teaches.  This venomous and childish response reveals some serious problems in the spiritual path that you have undertaken:  perhaps it just doesn't work for you.
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correct. I just responded to your post. thank you for your input. I have realized the error of my ways. I think we each can worry quite efficiently on our own pathways and not whether this or that person needs an apology. Both Don and I are outspoken to the max on our respective viewpoints..things are said here sometimes in the wrong spirit, due to the strength of our feelings and belief systems.
please stop dredging up old posts unless you got something good to say that helps everybody here have more hope, or more enlightenment in their lives. I'd appreciate to hear something about you, personally, but then, thats up to you what you want to give us. love, alysia

Hi Alysia----
This past April I attended the Guidelines program at the Monroe Institute and had the opportunity to use the TMI Lab (a room that is soundproof). I was hooked up to a monitor and listened to the hemi-sync.  While I was in my meditation, a Higher Intelligent Being (HIB) told me that in three years the HIBs will make themselves know on the planet Earth and finally help up to clean up the planet.  (this is very succinct) Now, another participant went into the lab several hours later, went  into a different level of meditation and received a similar message of help from HIBs in 2011.  So, yes-- a change is coming.  I had been angry in a previous meditation and asked why, when we were a part of THEIR DNA-- that we are told THEY won't interfere with the beings on Earth.
My argument is---THEY are the DNA of the beings on Earth, so what the heck are THEY waiting for???
Yes--- help is on it's way.  Unfortunately, many of us will already be dead and in another dimension!

identcat wrote on Jun 7^th, 2007 at 4:13pm:

Hi Alysia---- This past April I attended the Guidelines program at the Monroe Institute and had the opportunity to use the TMI Lab (a room that is soundproof). I was hooked up to a monitor and listened to the hemi-sync.  While I was in my meditation, a Higher Intelligent Being (HIB) told me that in three years the HIBs will make themselves know on the planet Earth and finally help up to clean up the planet.  (this is very succinct) Now, another participant went into the lab several hours later, went  into a different level of meditation and received a similar message of help from HIBs in 2011.  So, yes-- a change is coming.  I had been angry in a previous meditation and asked why, when we were a part of THEIR DNA-- that we are told THEY won't interfere with the beings on Earth. My argument is---THEY are the DNA of the beings on Earth, so what the heck are THEY waiting for??? Yes--- help is on it's way.  Unfortunately, many of us will already be dead and in another dimension!

I think you got a terrific message Carole!  I think it's happening now, just gathering speed, like momentum, and that they HIB, have to wait for an invite by each individual due to free will. but I see signs of the shift, once u start looking for them, they just pop up everywhere. Don't croak yet, ok? :) I'll stay if you will!

Sure would like to--- but I am having some health issues. I go for a colonoscopy  in 2 weeks.  I sure would like to see our HIBs in person (and not just spirit).  That would truly be a miracle!

Identicat:

Wow, not too far in the future eh.  One time while laying in bed awake I heard and saw three planets blow up one right after the other. The first blew up into rocks.  I believe this represented the creation of the physical earth. The second blew up into flames. I believe this represented the creation of biological life. The third blew up into white light. I believe this represented the World evolving into an age of light.

I've also received a few other messages suggesting some kind of change, but I've "never" been told when.

I've also received messages suggesting that it is important that some of us spiritually grow as much as possible, so when shift happens, there are those who are ready to help.

Perhaps we have some exciting times ahead.

P.S. Good luck with your colonoscopy.

According to the information obtained from the Dead Sea Scrolls and the pyramid alignments and the Michu Pichu pyramids, all the changes were to begin between 2007 and 2011.  Many ancient symbols and "seers" also predicted that those years would bring about a new spiritual awakening. Of course, I heard the same thing back in the 60's with the dawning of Aquarius.  
And thanks for the well wishes. I hope to be around for a while, as I find the "new awakening" very exciting and I would like to be here to help.  
When I was at TMI (the Monroe Institute) many of us kept getting "orbs" appearing in our photographs--- whether we were using digital or the disposable.  I thought that was pretty neat. Well, after I showed my grandson some of the orbs, he left to go skateboarding and he took his little pocket size digital camera with him.  His friend took a picture of Tim on the skateboard down in the basement, and like on "que" (spelling not my strong point) a orb appeared in the picture above Tims shoulder.  If I could figure out how to attach the image, I would. My grandson was ecstatic.  He asked me what it meant--- I said it was a sign or symbol from the HIB's.  He liked the answer.  

Lucy wrote on Mar 23^rd, 2007 at 12:41pm:

Recoverer Have you read Disappearance of the Universe? One of its strongest ideas is that God did not create the universe, we (our oversouls?) did.

I have not read the "Disappearance of the Universe," but have been told by my spiritual guide that we did create the universe. I wrote this on my blog.


Quote:

Here is another thought from a different dimension. I am a spiritual person in contact with the spiritual dimension of life. I am told by the spiritual world that we created this earth and universe, then came to live on it for a physical experience, it was supposed to be fun, but we forgot who we were, got lost in the intensity, and well, one thing led to another.

I really like the ACIM, read it twice, didn't understand it the first time.

Love

Greetings All:

I am a new poster this time around, but a long time reader who was registered under another name several years ago. I didn't post much then and likely won't be doing all that much posting now, but I did want to put the following website up for pro or con comments on it (if any) or even its relevancy to ACIM as it is discussed in this forum.

http://www.hometown.aol.com/groom51s4/page5.html

It was listed as a link on http://www.rense.com recently, and some of you may have already seen it. I have absolutely no idea whether or not there is any validity in it, and in all truth, I have no dog in this fight, (possible poor analogy). When I read ACIM years ago I was somewhat bored with it, but certainly will not deny the possibility of its significant benefit to others who perhaps are more astute and tuned to those particular frequencies than myself.  

After many years of research, and a few articles published, my approach to the so-called "supernatural/paranormal/metaphysical" is that of course it exists, but there is nothing at all "supernatural" about any of it, and it is only yet another life function based on theories and phenomena of quantum and sub-atomic particle behavior which at present remain undiscovered...perhaps at about the same stage as wireless communications in the late 1800's.

There is progress being made however, and Michael Roll's and Victor Zammit's respective sites are good sources of information on the latest developments.

Reason Rules

Thank you for sharing reason rules. I read the course for a while, and found it to have a brainwashing effect.

I don't know if the articles you attached are true, but they are worth considering.

Since I contributed to this thread I've received three more messages about ACIM. First I was shown the cover of Gary Renard's book "Dissapearance of the universe." I bought it, read about 50 pages, and found so much that seemed erroneous I quit reading it.

On another occasion I was shown the cover of ACIM, and the letters were purposely messed up so I couldn't read them. The filling I got was that this was done to indicate that it isn't a course in miracles.

On another occasion I saw one of the spin off books thrown to the ground in order to make the point that it isn't worth reading.

I won't state that there aren't any people who have benefited from reading the course. But I wonder how many people have become so caught up in it that they have some psychological blocks that are hard to clear. If a person gets to the point where he or she can't question something, he or she certainly has some mental blocks.

I have a big place in my heart for Christ, and I don't like the idea of some book misrepresenting him. This has already been done far too much.

quote from ReasonRules:
It was listed as a link on http://www.rense.com recently, and some of you may have already seen it. I have absolutely no idea whether or not there is any validity in it, and in all truth, I have no dog in this fight, (possible poor analogy). When I read ACIM years ago I was somewhat bored with it, but certainly will not deny the possibility of its significant benefit to others who perhaps are more astute and tuned to those particular frequencies than myself.
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hi and welcome to the board. I am a student/teacher combo of the Course since the mid 80's.  It's a self study course/pathway. the premises are tested by the individual over a lifetime. The entire Course supports what is taught on this board regarding the belief systems and how what we believe becomes the premise for our life's reality outpicturing.

The are 50 fundamentals of miracles, which the reason I bring it up, you are totally correct there is nothing supernatural going on but what we qualify it so.
The course will say if a miracle is not happening, something has gone wrong.
To put it that way, brings a miracle, a change of mind really, into our lives by disclaiming there is anything supernatural, and therefore out of our reach to attain or accomplish.

While there are other pathways equally valid, the course will state it's teachers are not to defend it for that would be counterproductive to it's message. so of course I will not defend it but I may from time to time share what I learned, which helped me become more of myself, a more happy camper as it were.
so if you found it boring, that's because your makeup seeks another type of pathway; it seems you have a scientific mind and I respect that. I am trying to blend science and religion myself, and it takes a VERY long time! lol!

I have learned each pathway is unique, beautiful, and respectable. The transformational value it gave me was something within the soul, not unlike what the Christians of earlier time called being reborn. in spirit. This transformation is best seen from the actions of the person whether than what they communicate in words.
Amazing grace that saved a wretch like me, something to that effect, some here would understand. some would not. all is well. all will end up the same place eventually.

meanwhile, thanks for your post! love, alysia

btw, it does not brainwash, we can brainwash ourselves quite efficiently without the use of a book. the choice remains ours what to believe, what to not believe. In essence the course told me what I had suspected all along, I am love in essense. but I am not alone in this respect. All at their basis start out as love in essence, then it gets covered over by society's belief systems imposed on the young and we become conditioned to suffer. When we realize we are still as we were before coming here, we enter into the oneness of all paths, and all peoples, and all of planet Earth, and what she stands for as a place to manifest what is god.

thanks for the listen.

There are a number of internet articles on this matter:

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=%22a+course+in+miracles%22+%22subproject+130%22&fr=yfp-t-501&toggle=1&cop=mss&ei=UTF-8

http://www.urantiagate.com/conspiracy/fleas.html

The below is a big statement. Forum members have a variety of belief systems.  Bruce's story of Curiosity and meeting with the creator, and Robert Monroe's meeting with the Creator, suggest that the universe was created on purpose, while ACIM takes sort of a Vendantic approach and states that the universe was created independent of God, despite what he thought was best. These two viewpoints really seem to contradict each other.  




[quote author=laffingrain link=1174596312/60#70 date=1181865035]
quote from ReasonRules:
The entire Course supports what is taught on this board regarding the belief systems and how what we believe becomes the premise for our life's reality outpicturing.

Alysia:

I don't doubt that you benefited in some ways. But perhaps you should give yourself credit for being able to find words within the course that helped you. A course doesn't have to be genuine in order for it to have helpful words. I can name a ton of books by false gurus that have helpful words.

It is important to ask, is it okay for a book/course to claim that it comes from Christ when it doesn't?  If it doesn't come from Christ but claims that it does, this is no small infraction.

One of the major discoveries of possession research is precisely how evil typically deceives.  Evil typically reveals the truth to set up an important lie.  
The truth might well resonate with the target and teach her something significant.  But the real issue is whether she will then fall prey to the trap.  For example, consider the ghastly possession case that inspired the movie "The Exorcist."  The young victim was merely trying to contact his beloved late Aunt Harriet through the Ouija Board.  But the boy got deceived and then ensnared in an increasingly virulent possession.  

ACIM acutely raises the question of the crucial point at which the clever blending of truth and error must trigger an inner warning to stay away.  Clearly, the inspiring entity is not Jesus of Nazareth as it alleges.  Equally clearly, the entity seeks to gain authority and trust through this ruse.  This insight informs my conviction that the entity behind ACIM is truly evil.  It totally distorts what the historical Jesus taught.

But how can an honest inquirer ignore the impact of 7 years of channeling "Jesus" on the medium Helen Schucman?  If she was merely depressed in the aftermath, I would not construe this as a negative sign.   But she becomes more than depressed, more even than clinically depressed; she develops a fatal case of depression psychosis, the worst case her psychologist friend Dr. Groeschel had ever witnessed.  Dr. Groeschel was close enough to her to serve as her funeral eulogizer.  He was famous for debunking alleged demonic possession cases, and yet, he is convinced that Helen Schucman was likely possessed and killed by the severity of her possession.  

This thread has inpsired me to retrieve my boxed ACIM set for a more thorough examination and refutation.  I initially stopped reading it after discovering several false statements about Jesus and early Christianity, but I now see the need for a comprehensive refutation of its many claims that can be tested on historical grounds.    

Don

ACIM reminds me of the spiritual group I belonged to years ago. It was a group based on vedantic teachings. Some of the members used to be politically active in a liberal way. After joining the group they forgot about such activism, because after all, the World is just an illusion. None of them even voted. Their sense of giving was always dedicated to supporting the group through providing service and donating large amounts of money. In the end the guru became rich. I wonder how many ACIM students have become non voters. I  wonder how many of them were a part of the liberal voting force.

In his book "Dissapearance of the Universe" Gary Renard was supposedly told by one of the spirit beings who visited him in physical form: "I know you don't want to hear this yet, but it doesn't matter what actions you take or don't take in the Word."  This is the type of a response a lot of vendanta gurus would tell their followers, when they would ask them about the problems of the World. Basically, the World is an illusion, so don't worry about it.

My feeling is that Christ understands that the problems of the World aren't going to go away by imagining that they aren't there. Things will spiritually evolve only after people work hard to make things change for the better. A child who is forced into prostitution, a wife who is beaten by her husband, a person who is badly wounded in Iraq, and so on, don't stop suffering simply by people denying that the World is real. Christ didn't come here to breed apathy and indifference.

One other thing. Let's say a person is sincere about establishing a relationship with Christ and tries to do so through ACIM.  Wouldn't it cause difficulty if Christ's presence had to reach out to a person through the filters of a course that doesn't come from him? Is it prudent to cause other people to put those filters inbetween them and Christ?

Losing interest in life can be a result of exposure to Buddhist teachings too which are quite clear that this relative reality is not 'real' too. But it's seen as very much a wrong interpretation, as a serious error as the result of applying an absolute view to relative reality.

If I can get it right. The 'not mattering' bit is at the absolute or highest 'I am' level of reality. But the point is that most of us are not enlightened and live in this relative reality. And how we engage with this reality has enormous implications for our spiritual progress, our ability to eventually realise the absolute.

Having realised the absolute then relative reality, spiritual paths and the like no longer matter. But that's then, and this is now. Horses for courses.

Tibetan Buddhism actually has three levels of teaching which build on each other, and which are suitable for people at differing stages on the path.

The Hinayana is for people rooted in a simple understanding of the relative level, and is essentially a rule based body of teaching. (built from the four noble truths as expressed in sutras)

The Mahayana introduces the idea of the impermanence (unreality) of relative reality, and shows how Buddha nature exhibits in it as the only true (but inexpressible) reality in the form of wisdom and compassion. Its also taught from sutras. Being a heavily experiential (meditation based) path as well it also brings one eventually to the experience of nirvana.

The Vajraya is a path of practice which enables a more rapid progression to realisation or awareness of emptiness (the absolute) and its realisation in normal life using tantric practices while working with a realised teacher. (the subject of my earlier thread) It involves what's called direct mind transmission.

A good couple of books for anybody interested in understanding Buddhist teaching on this (which very reassuringly fits  well with what Robert Monroe set out in his books) are 'Indestructible Truth', and 'Secret of the Vajra World' by Reginald A Ray and published by Shambhala Publications. `The second is probably the best if you buy one as it contains a summary of the first too....