72 hours now, WITHOUT a cigarette!
AND, the nerves and cravings are dropping
off fast. (My OWN method, BTW...)
And even if I DO relapse (I don't intend to!) I now know that
I CAN handle withdrawal symptoms without nicotine replacements
or drugs. So even if I backslide, I WILL eventually win this battle.
I DIDN'T know that before! So that's something right there.
Here's something that just occurred to me...
If Literalist Christianity is true, then it AIN'T consistent.
I am an ENEMY of "Yahweh", as the churches describe him.
I am doomed to Hell, if he exists. I am one of the
"reprobate."
I have nothing but CONTEMPT for the concept of OBEDIENCE
being a "virtue." I consider blind obedience to be about as close
to a SIN (whatever that is!) as exists in this world!
I have (many times) committed the "sin against the Holy
Ghost" - lots of times I've said, "F*** YOU, Holy Ghost"
when I've gotten mad about some world event or whatever
(I cursed all three "persons" of Yahweh on 9/11, for
example!) The Bible calls that unforgivable.
I get foaming-at-the-mouth angry, just THINKING about fundamentalist
Christians, and their vile, loathesome "Hell doctrine." (And OH how I laughed, at "Pastor Ted" (Haggard) and his gay hustler scandal...)
And yet, it looks like I've taken on a nasty, nasty habit (which
I thought I'd have FOREVER) and beaten it, no thanks to
"Yahweh!" I know that if I DO relapse into smoking, it will be
because of a CHOICE I make (even if it is a bad one.) No "demons"
possessing this boy..!
And I didn't ONCE ask for divine help in quitting (although I did construct
a "mantra" or two, which I'd chant to myself as I was falling asleep, or just sitting around. Goes right to the subconscious that way, without having to buck my conscious mind...)
SO... I have further evidence now, that mankind's CHURCHES and
CLERGYMEN are WRONG about the nature of reality.
Cool!!!

B-man

Oh Chum (well done for the stop smoking) Can you not see who (wants) to rule the world? With the war, corruption, lies and hatered.  Can you not see who the enemy is? The very puppets who attack democracy (albeit some of our leaders are weak) Can you not see it is for this reason the word of Christ is strong?

9/11 was shocking - still is .. and the retaliation ... just what the puppets wanted .. put the world in chaos .. and then manipulate world order ...

I don't know all the answers Chum but it seems we are living in events which sound very much like the end times or rather the latter days, might be a few hundred years off but its seems pretty close, and knowing and believing God's Word he will be vengeful against evil for evil has thought it could corrupt the children of his breath.  Christ is not the enemy and this is why he came with the sword to destroy evil and He is coming again.

It is also each one's responsibility to be accountable for their own actions and pray for guidance.  For in this day and age one might laugh at believing a God is going to come but if we follow the Word He has told us what will happen in the latter days and He has told us He is coming.  

Get ready and wipe your tears away ..

I don't know all the answers Chum but it seems we are living in events which sound very much like the end times or rather the latter days, might be a few hundred years off but its seems pretty close, and knowing and believing God's Word he will be vengeful against evil for evil has thought it could corrupt the children of his breath.
*****************
-People have been saying "The End Is Near!" since the first century A.D.;
I challenge you to name a single historical peroid when this wasn't so! (Imagine what it would have been like to live in, say... 1241 A.D., when it looked like the Mongols were going to overrun Christendom. I'll bet the preachers were making some serious hay back then, too!)
Remember, Jesus told his disciples that he was returning SOON. If was
going to return, why did he decide to wait practically a geological epoch (2K years!) to come back? Why did he tell people that some of them would not taste of death, before he returned (unless you want to believe in 2000-year-old humans walking the Earth...)
And finally, why didn't he mention cars, flight, and the Internet (or at least TRY to) when the disciples asked him what the end times would be like? Clearly this story was referring to events in the 1st cetury... the NEAR future, in their OWN ERA... not the dim, far-off future (the 21st century, to Jesus and his disciples!) like todays fundies claim it refers
to.
Sorry to say, but if the world goes to Hell, we're on our own and there won't be ANYONE to "rescue" us. And we won't have anyone to blame but ourselves. So maybe it is time, to stop putting fools in high office (like President Bush and Dick Cheney!) To do that though, we need to stop being FOOLS OURSELVES!
One way to start, is to oppose fundamentalist religion whenever, and wherever it rears its ugly head. It's not much, but hey, it's a start... right???

B-man

Chum, that is WAY cool.

That's exactly right, one step at a time. Even if you relapse, which most people do a few times, you KNOW you can do it.  It's just a habit.  Once the nicotene is out of your system you realize that you only need to replace the habitual THOUGHT that you want it with another thought.  Any craving is just that....a craving that can be beat if the mind is turned on to something else.

I am one month "sober" but not cold turkey.  I have my antidepressant.  My tranquilizers are gone and all they ever did was help me sleep anyway.  I'm not sure they did much of anything, to tell you the truth, except calm me out that first week or so.  But they are NOT necessary.

I've lived ten years stone cold sober, cold turkey, before and lived to tell the tale.  It was a great life.  One glass of champagne at a celebration 10 years ago was the first step down my road to my own personal illusion of self-control.  

It was amazing how a person can quite methodically mistake slow suicide for a party. I think that's pretty much what hell is all about.

Anyway, I'm not trying to be preachy. Who am I? Just some lady who occasionally says something here that sounds coherent when no one is there in her face to challenge her patience. I have my rough moments, but life is getting better.

Anyway, I'm HAPPY for you, CHUM! I love not smoking anymore. I love not having any of that stuff around anymore. Life gets simpler every day.  

In fact, this morning, I woke up and thought: coffee. Then I thought: water.  Why not? Who would have thought it?

Water. What people all over the world will one day miss so badly if we all don't get together and solve our problems.

I've been sleeping on the floor for almost a week since my airbed gave out (not through overly strenuous activity, mind you!!! Boyfriend is a little confused by my sudden desire to lose the habits that were part and parcel of our constant party.)

But my new futon should arrive by Fed Ex today.  You know, sleeping on the floor wasn't so bad.  A little ache here or there.  The trick is, if you get in JUST the right position, it's PERFECTLY COMFORTABLE.

I guess that's the trick to life sometimes. Get your brain in the right place. NO PROBLEMO.

Well, love and light and all that good stuff to ya.   blink

Chum,

Currently, no Fundamentalists post on this site.  DSo why do you keep derailing discussions with your Fundie hang-ups?  At least try to be fair to Jesus.  

The Israelites liberated from Egyptian slavery were not the only Israelites.  Archaeologists have discovered that another large group of Israelites already lived in the hill country of Canaan.  They were oppressed by the Canaanite city people.   So Joshua did not lead the Jews into a new land; rather, he led a civil revolt in which it was either kill or be killed.   True, these Jews no doubt hated their enemies.   But it is precisely this hatred that Jesus refutes: e. g.  

"Tou have heard that it was said, `You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'  But I say to you, Love your enemies, and pray for those who persecute you, etc. (Matthew 5:43-44)."

Also, you and many skeptics wrongly associate Jesus with the harsh Pentateuchal penal code.  Keep in mind that the Jews had no prisons out there in the Sinai desert.  Consider Jesus' repudiation of Leviticus 20:10 which mandates execution for adultery.  Jesus intevenes to rescue an adulteress about to be stoned and is appalled bythe double standard that would just wink at her male sex partner: "Let him who is without sin cast the first stone (John 8:7)."   Jesus rejects this penal code's roots in the principle of an eye for an eye (Exodus 21:24).

"You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth.'  But I say to you, do not resist him who is evil, but whoever strikes you on your right cheek, turn to him ther other also....And whoever shall force you to go one mile, go with him two (Matthew 5:38-39, 41)."

In other words, Jesus rejects the Jewish claim that this harsh penal code bears God's stamp of approval.  This series of sayings is a good example of Semitic hyperbole.  What it means is this: Don't just succomb to your ego and insist on your ego-based  rights.  Rather ask yourself how you can respond to your violator in a way that teaches him spiritual virtues.  On the other hand, Jesus also allows the right of self-defense (Luke 22:36-38).

The Pharisees confront Jesus with Moses' allowance for divorce if a man detects any "indecency" in his wife (Deuteronomy 24:1).  In Jesus' day, an "indecency" could even include developing wrinkles or burning dinner, while distracted by rowdy kids.  Jesus recognized that this law was being used to oppress women.  So He in effect replies, "You got stuck with that law only because you are so stuck in a patriarchal mindset that, culturally, you were not ready to hear what God wanted to teach you."  Or in Jesus' words, "Because of the hardness of your hearts, Moses wrote you this commandment (Mark 10:5)."  Think of it, B-man!  Jesus acknowledges that harsh Pentatuechal laws are often shaped by cultural bias rather than the will of God.  

Among other things, Jesus was a prophet.  The prophetic tradtion even contains a rejetion of the notion that God directly authorized all the laws of sacrifice ritual recorded in the Pentateuch.  Listen to what God teaches through Jeremiah in his sermon at the Jerusalem Temple:

"I did not speak to your fathers, or command them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices.  But his is what I commanded them, saying, `Obey my vioce and I wll be your God, and you will be my people ()Jeremiah 7:22-23).'"

When Istael abandons God's spirituality, note how God's sacasm erupts in sddressing the possible implications of Old Testament sacrifice ritual.  

"If I am hungry, will I not tell you?  For the earth and what fills it are mine.  Do I eat the flesh of bulls, do I drink the blood of goats?  Fuflill to the Most High your vows (Psalm 50:12-14)."

So in what sense do Pentateuchal laws reflect divine revelation?   God works within the framework of laws and practices developed within ancent Israelite culture.  These laws and practices have divine validity only to the extent that their practice reflects God's purpose in working with them: "However you want people to treat you, treat them; for this is the essence of the Law and the Prophets (Matthew 7:12)." But Jesus' atoning death is treated as the sacrfice to end all sacrifices.  

Don

Hi there,

substance addiction:
I gave up drinking after about 15 years having my evening beer buzz. I "substituted" it with meditiation. No problems, I just didn't need it anymore, quite amazing. After half a year or so I drank again a beer, but the next day I didn't. So it seems in my case the addiction habit regarding alcohol is erased. I don't recommend to start drinking again when sober for a while, of course not, but when it happens, it's not necessarily so that you are condemmned to be a drinker again (for many it seems to happen this way, but not for everyone, that's what I want to say).
Well, still smoking... You know Blink, "slow suicide"; living already is slow suicide, if we expect we will not live forever, smoking and such only make it some years shorter.
But it's true, to actually see it's possible without, and even better, that's a strong experience. It's like "all is possible".

coursing God:
B-good, I don't think there's a kind of God entity who writes this in a book and then, in the afterlife, send you to an "appropriate" place for this. I too had some really unpolite debates with God (well it was more me talking...). The good thing in what you told is you trust in yourself, that's a really healthy position, as long as you don't forbid yourself to ask for help when you need it, you know you can't do everything on your own. (Or, which maybe is something for you, chose a sort of Buddhism as religion-to-play-with, where there is no God, but a sort of void-realm which is you, and you are God, for you have expanded until you're encompassing it all. Just a suggestion) In fact, I think to course God and get your life in your own hands is even better than to "serve" God out of fear - much better.

Spooky

Chum you right people living in WW1 & WW2 most have thought it is the end times.  Best to just live life to full potential and wait upon God.  Without extremes.

Don; thanks for your posts always a corner stone.

:)

spooky2 wrote on Mar 15^th, 2007 at 11:12pm:

Hi there, substance addiction: I gave up drinking after about 15 years having my evening beer buzz. I "substituted" it with meditiation. No problems, I just didn't need it anymore, quite amazing. After half a year or so I drank again a beer, but the next day I didn't. So it seems in my case the addiction habit regarding alcohol is erased. I don't recommend to start drinking again when sober for a while, of course not, but when it happens, it's not necessarily so that you are condemmned to be a drinker again (for many it seems to happen this way, but not for everyone, that's what I want to say). Well, still smoking... You know Blink, "slow suicide"; living already is slow suicide, if we expect we will not live forever, smoking and such only make it some years shorter. But it's true, to actually see it's possible without, and even better, that's a strong experience. It's like "all is possible". coursing God: B-good, I don't think there's a kind of God entity who writes this in a book and then, in the afterlife, send you to an "appropriate" place for this. I too had some really unpolite debates with God (well it was more me talking...). The good thing in what you told is you trust in yourself, that's a really healthy position, as long as you don't forbid yourself to ask for help when you need it, you know you can't do everything on your own. (Or, which maybe is something for you, chose a sort of Buddhism as religion-to-play-with, where there is no God, but a sort of void-realm which is you, and you are God, for you have expanded until you're encompassing it all. Just a suggestion) In fact, I think to course God and get your life in your own hands is even better than to "serve" God out of fear - much better. Spooky

Right you are, Spooky.  My comment about "slow suicide" is not projected on anyone else. It is simply my own experience. I was sure what I was experiencing was freedom and relaxation while smoking and doing other things.  But there was an ultimate price to pay.  I know that I, personally, would have died from these things much sooner than I want to.....I gave them up (again) because I know that there is much left for me to do in this world and many family members whose hearts would break at the loss of my life. I could feel these substances squeezing the life out of me, and I could not control my actions any other way except by abstaining.

But, I will tell no one else how to live. I simply recognize that addiction is part of my personality. I am separating myself from certain things, but I will only congratulate those who chose this path for themselves. Others are welcome to their paths.

There are smokers who live into a healthy old age. There are smokers who simply cannot quit. There are smokers who live exactly the life they choose and it is their right and their freedom.  No judgements.

Yes, life itself is "slow suicide" by one definition.  We all have choices.

I choose to live now.  And so these are the correct choices for me now.

much love to you, Spooky.  you are a wise one.  blink

Congratulations B-Man!

Stick to it - after a week or so you'll stop missing it. I always remind people that what some of them call "withdrawal" is actually recovery from chronic nicotine poisoning. That's not  really "unwanted nervous energy" you feel - it's the return of good health.

As far as Jesus' threat to return SOON - Could it be that  he did return under the name "Mohammed"?

:-)
d

[quote author=dave_a_mbs link=1173943736/0#8 date=1174072977]Congratulations B-Man!

Stick to it - after a week or so you'll stop missing it. I always remind people that what some of them call "withdrawal" is actually recovery from chronic nicotine poisoning. That's not  really "unwanted nervous energy" you feel - it's the return of good health.

As far as Jesus' threat to return SOON - Could it be that  he did return under the name "Mohammed"?

:-)
d
*****************
Don't think so Dave...
Mohammed burst upon the world around 620 A.D. or so. Now,
that was hardly "soon" after the 1st century (if told you I was
leaving but would be back in A.D. 2630, you might think that
wasn't all that "soon.")
*I wonder what Christian literalists of the year 41,537 A.D. will
make of that "I am returning soon!" promise..?*

B-man

P.S. Been off 'em since Monday. I'll guess I'll see in 3 days, if
what you say about "not missing the things after a week" holds
for me...
(So far, been eating a LOT of beef jerky..!)

Keep up the good intention and change! At very worst you get bragging rights - and you'll be able to breathe better etc.

The reincarnation of the cycles of avatars has interested me for years, although not in grteat depth - One of them occurs roughly every 500 years. For the Hindus it was Arjuna, Krishna, Siddhartha (buddha), then we have Jesus and Mohammed, I'd look at the first Milennium and the fervor of the scientific revolution, as with Gallileo and Bruno, later Newton, then Einstein and the Relativists and Quantum thinkers - etc. Or we could look at Swedenborg and his contemporaries, and the rise of "New Thougfht". If we focus on the reincarnation of the awareness of the human aspect, "the man Jesus" as opposed to other men, this makes some kind of sense. If we look at the nature of being an avatar, which is the Christ Consciousness projected from the Oneness into the Many, and thus the "divine" nature of the avatar, it is a constant, simply a repetition of an age of new discovery every five centuries or so.  

I think by the year 42000 or so the pattern may become more evident.  Or perhaps that's about the time that the cockroaches will inherit the slightly radioactive planet after we've discovered that blowing each other up is a relatively low yield activity.

Anyhow, I was smoking 3 1/2 packs/day when I stopped - a long time ago . If I could stop, you certainly can! Keep it up! You've got my blessings and best wishes, for sure!
d

Anyhow, I was smoking 3 1/2 packs/day when I stopped - a long time ago . If I could stop, you certainly can! Keep it up! You've got my blessings and best wishes, for sure!
d
*******************
3 and 1/2 packs a day? How is THAT possible? (You must've been a
trooper to handle THAT much nicotine - I'd have puked if I tried
to smoke that much. You must have taken up the habit in a
high-stress time of your life, maybe..?)
Me, at my worst I was at 2 packs a day, and that's pretty much chain-smoking country right there. Of course, John Wayne was said
to have smoked his way thru FOUR packs a day (or better) but then,
he WAS one of those "larger than life" types.
Anyway, I was 19 years smoking, without missing a DAY. (I'd be dead
by now if I'd done 3-and-a-half, more than likely..!)

B-man

Well, I was a chain smoker - and sometimes had one on my desk burning a hle, another behind my ear, another in my mouth, another ... etc. The worst part was what to do with my fingers afterwards because I didn't have a cig to fiddle with.

Give yourself some good strokes for quitting!

In my office I pattern my "smoking cessation": tretment after the methadone approach to heoin - but I use TicTacs (and anything else people want) instead of methadone. Plus awareness that the sensations that we normally call "withdrawal" are actually normal healthy function being restored, and bringing with it a sense of energy and improved nervous function.

There was an experiment in which people wwere divided into three groups. Group one was rtold, "This may stimulate you." Group 2 was told, "This may sedate you". Group 3 was told, "We are uncertin of the effects on you." Then all three got adrenaline - obviously a natural stimulant. A moment later, Group 1 felt stimulated. Group 2 felt a change and decided that they had been sedated. They were all laid back and sleepy. Group 3 simply felt upset, nervous, uncertain, angry, nervous etc.   The moral is that your mind set is to a large extent what determines the effects. So view yourself as recovering your good health and that all the feelings are how it feels to e healthy again, and it feels pretty good.

I'm 100% for you - keep at it. If you feel the hand to mouth habit, sunflower seeds, candy, carrot sticks, chips etc - anything trivial will handle it - next week you won't care.

d

[quote author=dave_a_mbs link=1173943736/0#12 date=1174245475]Well, I was a chain smoker - and sometimes had one on my desk burning a hle, another behind my ear, another in my mouth, another ... etc. The worst part was what to do with my fingers afterwards because I didn't have a cig to fiddle with.

Give yourself some good strokes for quitting!

In my office I pattern my "smoking cessation": tretment after the methadone approach to heoin - but I use TicTacs (and anything else people want) instead of methadone. Plus awareness that the sensations that we normally call "withdrawal" are actually normal healthy function being restored, and bringing with it a sense of energy and improved nervous function.

There was an experiment in which people wwere divided into three groups. Group one was rtold, "This may stimulate you." Group 2 was told, "This may sedate you". Group 3 was told, "We are uncertin of the effects on you." Then all three got adrenaline - obviously a natural stimulant. A moment later, Group 1 felt stimulated. Group 2 felt a change and decided that they had been sedated. They were all laid back and sleepy. Group 3 simply felt upset, nervous, uncertain, angry, nervous etc.   The moral is that your mind set is to a large extent what determines the effects. So view yourself as recovering your good health and that all the feelings are how it feels to e healthy again, and it feels pretty good.

I'm 100% for you - keep at it. If you feel the hand to mouth habit, sunflower seeds, candy, carrot sticks, chips etc - anything trivial will handle it - next week you won't care.
*****************
Tic tacs, eh? I've been sucking on those like a French wh*re the last
week or so (and using a drug-free, menthol flavored artificial
cig I ordered off the 'Net.)
Tic tacs, CZ-52s, I wonder what else you and I are "parallel"
with, Dave..?

B-man