Those of you that believe in reincarnation I was just wondering if there is a way to avoid it.. Like say you go to a beautiful place in the spirit world and love it there.. What if you don't want to reincarnate and stay where your at??

Da_Bear:

Reincarnation is confined to certain beliefs. Obviously, you will receive varying answers. I do not believe we lose our individuality when we cross-over, so to speak. The decisions made at that point will be made with all knowledge that you have obtained and what you decide to do with it.

E

EternalEssence wrote on Feb 22^nd, 2007 at 6:26pm:

Da_Bear: Reincarnation is confined to certain beliefs. Obviously, you will receive varying answers. I do not believe we lose our individuality when we cross-over, so to speak. The decisions made at that point will be made with all knowledge that you have obtained and what you decide to do with it. E

I see what you mean. I think God will give us a choice to do what we want.. So, I think we can choose to reincarnate or not.. That is my belief.. I hope that is true..

There is also the belief/knowledge that we as an ego are part of soul essences/groups. We experience all our lives at once really because there is no real 'time'. Although I am confused by this. Perhaps the 'you' the 'I' the ego who you are now could be in the spirit world forever more if it chose.

The evidence for re-incarnation is very strong. Children remembering past lives, birth marks, past life regressions. Having said that there is also a question of whether you are remembering your own past life or whether it was someone else who is another aspect of your soul group.

I only just recently encountered these ideas so sorry if I seem vague  :-/ Help me out here ya 'know-it-alls!'  ;)

As far as choice in re-incarnation. Free Will and Free Choice is part of the true nature of reality the way I see it. Anything else may be only true from a certain perspective, from a particular judgement of reality but free choice and free will is constant.

If you fear the loss of your identity, just think that maybe you're part of much larger identity! That is GOD! or the source, the creator, the oneness, universal consciousness whatever you want to call it!

You may be happy with the 'I' that you are and don't want to let go of it, but what about one of those kids in war ravaged countries that gets killed in a bombing? (I have to be graphic to make a point). Perhaps they might want another try at life in this 'earth school' eh? The way I see it choice is everything. Nothing external forces you to re-incarnate but we all choose to so we can experience more and fast track our progression.

Never say die wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2007 at 8:44am:

There is also the belief/knowledge that we as an ego are part of soul essences/groups. We experience all our lives at once really because there is no real 'time'. Although I am confused by this. Perhaps the 'you' the 'I' the ego who you are now could be in the spirit world forever more if it chose. The evidence for re-incarnation is very strong. Children remembering past lives, birth marks, past life regressions. Having said that there is also a question of whether you are remembering your own past life or whether it was someone else who is another aspect of your soul group. I only just recently encountered these ideas so sorry if I seem vague  :-/ Help me out here ya 'know-it-alls!'  ;) As far as choice in re-incarnation. Free Will and Free Choice is part of the true nature of reality the way I see it. Anything else may be only true from a certain perspective, from a particular judgement of reality but free choice and free will is constant. If you fear the loss of your identity, just think that maybe you're part of much larger identity! That is GOD! or the source, the creator, the oneness, universal consciousness whatever you want to call it! You may be happy with the 'I' that you are and don't want to let go of it, but what about one of those kids in war ravaged countries that gets killed in a bombing? (I have to be graphic to make a point). Perhaps they might want another try at life in this 'earth school' eh? The way I see it choice is everything. Nothing external forces you to re-incarnate but we all choose to so we can experience more and fast track our progression.

Yeah that sounds more legitimate! Thanks for explaining it better!

Well, I sort of see myself as reincarnating at every moment.

Just kind of winking in and out of existence. 

I mean, is there ever a moment in our lives when we are exactly the same?

Why would it be any different after this life?  

I know that sounds silly. But that's how I see it.

I don't plan on coming back here unless I'm needed.

I'm checking myself right now....yes, I'm here....I guess I'm still needed.

love, blink

The word simultaneous time is the concept that you are looking for in terms of "all at once" You, in essence, experience all of your lives at once. You past life is occurring now, though it is past to you, it is present to them. The future exists as probabilities based on choices, but is happening now. It is future to you, but "now" to them. Each of your "selves" is individual. Together, all your individual "selves" compose your total self, the whole you. Time, a human concept, does not exist. To appreciate the concept, you must expand your awareness to see beyond the concept of time as it exists in human, third-dimensional terms.

Simultaneous time does not eliminate the concept of reincarnation. At best, it only modifies it. Based on the above statements, that information is accessible. You are a part of the whole, though you retain your individuality. You're total self is always present and always acessible (it is often called the higher self, but that's a different topic altogether).

Confusion occurs because we assign human labels to nonhuman concepts. It's not wrong, just distorts the truth. The "ego" is the source of this separation from the total self. It serves as a protective measure. Free will is always present, and your future is shaped on what you experience as a possible (probable) reality. Different choices, different possible realities.

You are correct that the choice to reincarnate is yours. Though initally veiled from you at birth, on agreement, the "past" (pardon the term) is accessible. Upon death, the veil is removed and the seperation you feel is eliminated.

That you are endeavoring to understand this form of consciousness, as it is, you display progression. That you have encountered this now has its own positive outcomes. Those will be for you to discover on your own. My telling you would eliminate your choices and free will.  ;)


[smiley=engel017.gif]
   E.

wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2007 at 3:59pm:

Well, I sort of see myself as reincarnating at every moment. Just kind of winking in and out of existence.  I mean, is there ever a moment in our lives when we are exactly the same? Why would it be any different after this life?   I know that sounds silly. But that's how I see it. I don't plan on coming back here unless I'm needed. I'm checking myself right now....yes, I'm here....I guess I'm still needed. love, blink

Good points.

EternalEssence wrote on Feb 23^rd, 2007 at 6:15pm:

The word simultaneous time is the concept that you are looking for in terms of "all at once" You, in essence, experience all of your lives at once. You past life is occurring now, though it is past to you, it is present to them. The future exists as probabilities based on choices, but is happening now. It is future to you, but "now" to them. Each of your "selves" is individual. Together, all your individual "selves" compose your total self, the whole you. Time, a human concept, does not exist. To appreciate the concept, you must expand your awareness to see beyond the concept of time as it exists in human, third-dimensional terms. Simultaneous time does not eliminate the concept of reincarnation. At best, it only modifies it. Based on the above statements, that information is accessible. You are a part of the whole, though you retain your individuality. You're total self is always present and always acessible (it is often called the higher self, but that's a different topic altogether). Confusion occurs because we assign human labels to nonhuman concepts. It's not wrong, just distorts the truth. The "ego" is the source of this separation from the total self. It serves as a protective measure. Free will is always present, and your future is shaped on what you experience as a possible (probable) reality. Different choices, different possible realities. You are correct that the choice to reincarnate is yours. Though initally veiled from you at birth, on agreement, the "past" (pardon the term) is accessible. Upon death, the veil is removed and the seperation you feel is eliminated. That you are endeavoring to understand this form of consciousness, as it is, you display progression. That you have encountered this now has its own positive outcomes. Those will be for you to discover on your own. My telling you would eliminate your choices and free will.  ;) [smiley=engel017.gif]    E.

Interesting, that blew my mind.. :) The future trips me out..

I'm a hypnotherapist specializing in past life regressions.  I actually don't believe in "past" lives.  I believe in parallel lives, but that is too difficult and time consuming to explain to clients, so I go with the common terminology.

From my experience and the experiences of my clients, I do think you can be trapped into reincarnation without wanting to be.  It has to do with karma, and it doesn't matter if you believe in karma or not.  What happens is that people can't let go of the idea that they are "good" enough to progress past incarnating.  They jump from lifetime to lifetime trying to make up for the wrongs they've done.  Many also cannot give up their attachment to the earth...loved ones, friends, the planet, even their own ego.  This keeps them reincarnating.  Another common false belief among many New Agers is that you have to evolve to enlightenment.  This is probably the biggest one that keeps more aware people reincarnating.

When you physically die, you don't suddenly become omnipotent.  You take much of your personality and beliefs with you.  If you believe you must evolve to a certain level, be it avatar or whatever, you most probably will be stuck in that belief, which makes you come back.

Believe it or not, all of this is a choice.  Even the things that don't look like a choice.  You can choose to change your beliefs.  That is the only thing that will stop your karmic wheel.  Think about it.  How "good" do you think you can become on earth?  Do you actually know anyone who is "good" enough to graduate?  It's impossible.  It is impossible to become perfect in the human dimension.

Give up the idea of becoming good.  The only thing required to stop incarnating is to accept that everything is perfect just as it is....including you.  No judgement.  Stop judging yourself, stop judging others.  Pure acceptance and the willingness to let others be as they are.  Even the so-called "evil" ones.  Accept them.  They are struggling through earthly life just like everyone else.  I can almost guarantee that everyone here has murdered in at least one lifetime.   The most heiness thing you can think of...you've done it.  If you don't believe it, find a good regressionist.  You will be shocked at the things you are capable of.  Then, let it go.  You are perfect, just as you are.  No need to run around doing all the metaphysical stuff that so many people insist are necessary for evolvement.  They are running in circles.  The karmic wheel circle.

Give up your judgement of yourself and others.  Decide that you want off the wheel.  That's it.

Just to supplement Tempest's idea:

One of my "previous" -- I do not like linear terminology, but I must use what I have -- incarnations was a cortisan (fancy for prostitute). Now, in the "now" I was once somewhat prudish. Imagine my awe when I realized that healing had a new twist. Now, anytime I take myself too seriously, I simply think of my days as a cortisan and find a lovely balance. I love that part of me as I love all parts of me, regardless of the decisions, the consequences or such. I find great joy in my experiences.


E.

Tempestinateapot wrote on Feb 24^th, 2007 at 2:59am:

I'm a hypnotherapist specializing in past life regressions.  I actually don't believe in "past" lives.  I believe in parallel lives, but that is too difficult and time consuming to explain to clients, so I go with the common terminology. From my experience and the experiences of my clients, I do think you can be trapped into reincarnation without wanting to be.  It has to do with karma, and it doesn't matter if you believe in karma or not.  What happens is that people can't let go of the idea that they are "good" enough to progress past incarnating.  They jump from lifetime to lifetime trying to make up for the wrongs they've done.  Many also cannot give up their attachment to the earth...loved ones, friends, the planet, even their own ego.  This keeps them reincarnating.  Another common false belief among many New Agers is that you have to evolve to enlightenment.  This is probably the biggest one that keeps more aware people reincarnating. When you physically die, you don't suddenly become omnipotent.  You take much of your personality and beliefs with you.  If you believe you must evolve to a certain level, be it avatar or whatever, you most probably will be stuck in that belief, which makes you come back. Believe it or not, all of this is a choice.  Even the things that don't look like a choice.  You can choose to change your beliefs.  That is the only thing that will stop your karmic wheel.  Think about it.  How "good" do you think you can become on earth?  Do you actually know anyone who is "good" enough to graduate?  It's impossible.  It is impossible to become perfect in the human dimension. Give up the idea of becoming good.  The only thing required to stop incarnating is to accept that everything is perfect just as it is....including you.  No judgement.  Stop judging yourself, stop judging others.  Pure acceptance and the willingness to let others be as they are.  Even the so-called "evil" ones.  Accept them.  They are struggling through earthly life just like everyone else.  I can almost guarantee that everyone here has murdered in at least one lifetime.   The most heiness thing you can think of...you've done it.  If you don't believe it, find a good regressionist.  You will be shocked at the things you are capable of.  Then, let it go.  You are perfect, just as you are.  No need to run around doing all the metaphysical stuff that so many people insist are necessary for evolvement.  They are running in circles.  The karmic wheel circle. Give up your judgement of yourself and others.  Decide that you want off the wheel.  That's it.

Thank you for your words of wisdom!! I see what you mean and I will accept myself for who I am.. Lately I have also, been accepting people for who they are. Especially, the evil ones and the likes of Saddam Hussein...

I was curious on doing a past life regression... If, I did that would that help me relieve my fears of hell... I am right now doing a lot better than what I use to be about my fears of hell.. Would it show me where I have the trauma coming from and how to stop it?? I think it would work for me to show me how there is no judgement in the afterlife.. And how we are so loved..

What is your opinion???

Thanks and peace

Hey DaBears,
It's usually very helpful.  It seems like irrational fears of hell are often related to a past life with really strong damnation type religious experiences that keep a person trapped with that belief, even in a new incarnation.  Going back to the source or the actual experience of the original trauma has this really weird, kind of miraculous ability to instantly heal the fear.  

If the irrational fear has come from this life, usually by indoctrination of the parents' or familys' beliefs, it might take several sessions to work out.  Hypnotherapy is never a guarantee, but I've seen it help a lot of people, myself included.

You can actually do this yourself.  Dr. Brian Weiss has regression instructions at the back of his latest book.  Michael Newton has really good books about regressions, also.  Sometimes, though, regressions can be really traumatic, and it helps to work with someone trained in dealing with that.  The hypnotherapist can take you out of the traumatic past experience during trance and have you watch it as an impartial observer.  If you are a pretty stable person, doing it yourself usually works out pretty well, though.   :)

Tempestinateapot wrote on Feb 24^th, 2007 at 8:23pm:

Hey DaBears, It's usually very helpful.  It seems like irrational fears of hell are often related to a past life with really strong damnation type religious experiences that keep a person trapped with that belief, even in a new incarnation.  Going back to the source or the actual experience of the original trauma has this really weird, kind of miraculous ability to instantly heal the fear.   If the irrational fear has come from this life, usually by indoctrination of the parents' or familys' beliefs, it might take several sessions to work out.  Hypnotherapy is never a guarantee, but I've seen it help a lot of people, myself included. You can actually do this yourself.  Dr. Brian Weiss has regression instructions at the back of his latest book.  Michael Newton has really good books about regressions, also.  Sometimes, though, regressions can be really traumatic, and it helps to work with someone trained in dealing with that.  The hypnotherapist can take you out of the traumatic past experience during trance and have you watch it as an impartial observer.  If you are a pretty stable person, doing it yourself usually works out pretty well, though.   :)

I'm sure it came from this life.. Because once I started to get into Catholicism during my late teen years.. I got into shock about hell.. Because the preachers preached about hell and fire all the time..

I will only do it with a hypnotherapist, because I don't think I would be stable enough to deal with it alone..  I was also, wondering will I get to meet my guides and would I be able to meet my deceased family members in the past life regression??

Thanks, for letting me know about this stuff!! And letting me know that I can get help to overcome this fear.. That gives me more faith!!I am doing somewhat fine though on my own.. But I still feel alittle tense about it...
Thanks and peace

How much does it cost by the way??

If you want to meet guides and family members while in trance, you'd almost probably need to work with a therapist who is spiritual and believes this stuff.  Otherwise, they will bring the session around to why you have these silly needs.   ::)

Finding a hypnotherapist who can help you with those specific questions might be difficult, as they are few and far between.  A couple of things come to mind...you can go to Brian Weiss' website, and he has a list of therapists all over the U.S., and I believe abroad, that have taken his intensive workshop.  Also, a look through your local Yellow Pages (if in U.S.) under "Psychologists" or "Therapists" might yield some psychotherapists who are trained in hypnotherapy.  Ask them if they are a "Transpersonal" Psychologist, because they are trained in spiritual matters.

The costs differ from therapist to therapist and are usually based on the amount of formal training they've had and what other local therapists are charging.  I live in California, so it's pretty expensive (everything is here).  Usually $85 to $200 for one hour long session, again, depending on their training.

You can meet guides and family members on your own, though.  There are a ton of metaphysical books out there that tell you how.  Since you are a surviving Catholic,  :)  I think Doreen Virtue's books would be good.  She's the famous angel clairvoyant.  So much of this is just a matter of learning how to do it yourself by educating yourself.  Learning to meditate, if you don't already know how, is always the first step.  I don't mean the "no mind" Zen kind of meditation.  I mean the watching, exploring, imagination kind of meditation.  Pretty much what Bruce Moen does.

Tempest:

Excellent reply.




E.

Tempestinateapot wrote on Feb 24^th, 2007 at 9:29pm:

If you want to meet guides and family members while in trance, you'd almost probably need to work with a therapist who is spiritual and believes this stuff.  Otherwise, they will bring the session around to why you have these silly needs.   ::) Finding a hypnotherapist who can help you with those specific questions might be difficult, as they are few and far between.  A couple of things come to mind...you can go to Brian Weiss' website, and he has a list of therapists all over the U.S., and I believe abroad, that have taken his intensive workshop.  Also, a look through your local Yellow Pages (if in U.S.) under "Psychologists" or "Therapists" might yield some psychotherapists who are trained in hypnotherapy.  Ask them if they are a "Transpersonal" Psychologist, because they are trained in spiritual matters. The costs differ from therapist to therapist and are usually based on the amount of formal training they've had and what other local therapists are charging.  I live in California, so it's pretty expensive (everything is here).  Usually $85 to $200 for one hour long session, again, depending on their training. You can meet guides and family members on your own, though.  There are a ton of metaphysical books out there that tell you how.  Since you are a surviving Catholic,  :)  I think Doreen Virtue's books would be good.  She's the famous angel clairvoyant.  So much of this is just a matter of learning how to do it yourself by educating yourself.  Learning to meditate, if you don't already know how, is always the first step.  I don't mean the "no mind" Zen kind of meditation.  I mean the watching, exploring, imagination kind of meditation.  Pretty much what Bruce Moen does.

Alright, thanks for the information and what not!

I see I have meditated before and had some results.. Just communication is all not visible or anything like that..

Thanks and peace

Those of you that believe in reincarnation I was just wondering if there is a way to avoid it.. Like say you go to a beautiful place in the spirit world and love it there.. What if you don't want to reincarnate and stay where your at??
*****************
What if you could reincarnate as a KING, DaBears?
With 1000 wives and concubines at your beck and call,
each one young, supple and delicious (no matter how
old, decrepit, and ugly you got), the finest food and
drink this world had to offer, an army at your service,
and all that..?
Or how about being a successful businessman? Or
a great scientist or explorer (if discovery and knowledge
are more important to you than power or material wealth?) Or
a million other possibilities, which can ONLY exist in
a substantial, lawful, physical universe, living in a
physical body?
Remember, the physical world is a sh!tpile, only to
those who lack health, freedom, and means. To those who
HAVE health, freedom, and means, it's quite the rollicking
adventure! Look at the fortunate people of this
world, and tell me I'm wrong!
One thing that ticks me off about "spiritual"  people is their
insistence that this world is SOOOO AWFUL... "Oh boo-hoo,
only in heaven can I find happiness" and other such BS.
Same attitude that the Christian fundies have, come to
think of it!!!
And,  if we DO reincarnate continually to infinity... well,
interspersed with your lousy lifetimes, you'd have
many REAL GEMS also. Something to think about,
eh? If eternally recurring reincarnation is the truth, we
ALL get the experience of being on top... not just the lucky
FEW who won the "you only go 'round once" lottery. (What
could be FAIRER than that..?)

B-man

I think the big reason why most people dont want to believe in reincarnation,is becauce of the possible rejection of there children,if it is proven to be true.People will say we dont want any children becauce The child could be the spirit of a killer or something like that.What are your thoughts on this.George

Wow, Chumley!  I'm kind of dumbfounded here.  You just don't get many people on a spiritual website that think like that.  It's actually kind of refreshing.   :)  And, probably closer to the truth than most "spiritual" people are aware of.  Many of them are stuck in their beliefs and can't see past them.

Ok, now that I've recovered somewhat  ;D I can tell you what I think.  But, most of this you really need to discover for yourself.  First question...what if you don't want to reincarnate?  Well, for the most part, you don't have to...for awhile.  Depending on where you land after your physical death, if you are in the higher focuses, you can do pretty much whatever you want.  Much of it is based on your belief system, and if your system doesn't allow that you can do whatever you want, you will be constrained by that belief.

About the world being a shitpile to only those who lack wealth, freedom, health, etc...actually, you are dead wrong on this.  Sorry, but it's true.  I'm one of those whom you seem to think have Nirvana on earth because of possessions, freedom, etc.  And, it doesn't change a thing.  I've lived both sides of the spectrum, know a lot of people from both, and happiness is all in your mind.  It exists nowhere else.  Some of the saddest people I know have every "good" thing this earth has to offer.   Some of the "happiest" people on earth don't have a dime.  And, spiritual people fall in both those categories.  Being spiritual doesn't make you happy or unhappy.  It actually has nothing to do with it.  An atheist can be extraordinarily happy, content, peaceful.  Ever met a Zen Buddhist?

BTW, we don't reincarnate into infinity.  Not on this earth.  Anybody who has studied science will know this, even if they don't believe in God or reincarnation.  It's not possbile.  This earth will eventually burn up when our sun becomes a red giant, and the sun itself will disappear eventually after becoming a white dwarf.   The entire universe is finite.  Looks like you'll need a plan B.   :)

The goal here is to stop incarnating.  That's where you get the real goodies.

B-dawg wrote on Feb 25^th, 2007 at 8:57am:

Those of you that believe in reincarnation I was just wondering if there is a way to avoid it.. Like say you go to a beautiful place in the spirit world and love it there.. What if you don't want to reincarnate and stay where your at?? ***************** What if you could reincarnate as a KING, DaBears? With 1000 wives and concubines at your beck and call, each one young, supple and delicious (no matter how old, decrepit, and ugly you got), the finest food and drink this world had to offer, an army at your service, and all that..? Or how about being a successful businessman? Or a great scientist or explorer (if discovery and knowledge are more important to you than power or material wealth?) Or a million other possibilities, which can ONLY exist in a substantial, lawful, physical universe, living in a physical body? Remember, the physical world is a sh!tpile, only to those who lack health, freedom, and means. To those who HAVE health, freedom, and means, it's quite the rollicking adventure! Look at the fortunate people of this world, and tell me I'm wrong! One thing that ticks me off about "spiritual"  people is their insistence that this world is SOOOO AWFUL... "Oh boo-hoo, only in heaven can I find happiness" and other such BS. Same attitude that the Christian fundies have, come to think of it!!! And,  if we DO reincarnate continually to infinity... well, interspersed with your lousy lifetimes, you'd have many REAL GEMS also. Something to think about, eh? If eternally recurring reincarnation is the truth, we ALL get the experience of being on top... not just the lucky FEW who won the "you only go 'round once" lottery. (What could be FAIRER than that..?) B-man

True that ! Interesting points I will look into that once I get the choice to what I please.

I think the big reason why most people dont want to believe in reincarnation,is becauce of the possible rejection of there children,if it is proven to be true.People will say we dont want any children becauce The child could be the spirit of a killer or something like that.What are your thoughts on this.George
*****************
I'd rather have my eyeballs ripped out by the roots, than father
children (both due to my basic selfishness, AND lack thereof... I
don't want to spend my life's earnings on a kid's million-dollar college
tuition in the year 2025 - AND I don't think it is fair to bring a
person into an existence that may be impossible to escape, if at
birth we are indeed infused with an "immortal soul" which may end
up in Hell, or an inane afterlife that will last forever.)
Perhaps that explains why I welcome the possibility of reincarnation,
but loathe and despise the Western "heaven and hell" duality. (I guess
you learn something new every day...)

B-man

BTW, we don't reincarnate into infinity.  Not on this earth.  Anybody who has studied science will know this, even if they don't believe in God or reincarnation.  It's not possbile.  This earth will eventually burn up when our sun becomes a red giant, and the sun itself will disappear eventually after becoming a white dwarf.   The entire universe is finite.  Looks like you'll need a plan B.   :)
******************
If certain quantum physicists are correct about there being an infinite
number of parallel universes - and this "multiverse" has no beginning or
end, it is the true "eternity" - then we can expect Earth to recur an infinite number of times... perhaps even WE OURSELVES recur an infinite number of times.
Such could be expected, in a "Totality" consisting of finite, non-eternal universes which were eternally arising from the "quantum vacuum" - the only truly eternal, unchanging reality there was! (I'm not pulling this out of my a$$, by the way - many respectable physicists have come to a similar conclusion about the nature of reality, such as Max Tegmark, Rupert Sheldrake, ect.)
Presumably, no two recurrences would be the same. My next recurrence,
might be as a guy with super business skills, who gets to be a millionaire at the age of 19... COOL!!!!!
And is this view, not more believable than "God" with "Heaven" and "Hell?" (After all, "God" is INFINITELY complex, rather than just unimaginably complex, as the "multiverse" would be. Therefore, "God", being infinitely complex, is infinitely more unlikely!)
It is a pretty cool possibility, really... infinite parallel universes with infinite recurrences! Beats having to settle for ONE life, as a loser (which would be most people, if there is no reincarnation! AND being officially losers after they die, when it is to late to change... they would have to lick the boots of the earthly winners -who, after all, had proven themselves worthy - in "heaven" for the rest of eternity...)  :P Sounds
like a DOG to me, with bad breath and muddy feet. What I don't understand is, most people seem to WANT it..!

B-man

P.S. WHAT goodies? Choir practice? Celibacy? "Purity" and "Holiness" (just what IS so great about those concepts, anyway?) A really nice
room in the Heavenly Monastery maybe? Or, floating around disembodied like a cloud of flatus..?

B-dawg wrote on Feb 25^th, 2007 at 10:10pm:

Perhaps that explains why I welcome the possibility of reincarnation, but loathe and despise the Western "heaven and hell" duality. (I guess you learn something new every day...) B-man

On this progressive afterlife forum the majority of us do not believe in the Western "heaven and hell" duality. Atleast not in strict terms and me pretty much not. My motto is 'CHOICE' and accepting responsibility for your choices. If you live your life based on fear then you carry that state of mind with you to the afterlife and if there is any hell it is because you have created it and your vibration draws you to the same level.

Hi all...just peeking in again..and reading through some threads...and I'm sure as I go back and read this one,I'll see many answers that are similar to my idea(s)...but simply, I'm one of those that truly believes in reincarnation...I really do...I'm also someone who struggles with depression on a grand scale..lol...and for some reason, besides things that I have read,debating wether there is choice or not (actually, anything quality I think I've ever read have thought we have a choice) I really think it is a choice...and at times I am horrified at the thought, b/c I am one that has considered suicide more than once...though it is that same innate understanding that tells me this is a less desirable way to get into the afterlife, to put it very simply....but in the same way I know this...I sometimes get comfort from the very idea that I chose this...and that time as we know it is so different in the afterlife, that at the time, before birth, I must have felt like, "wow, lifetimes are truly like a blink of an eye....look at how much I could learn and how quickly, during these lifetimes...I guess I'll go back and "try it again".." And then I've thought that I must be as passionate about spiritual principles and truth(s) there as here, so that I wanted to immediately practice what I recall, or learned on the "other side"..and somehow human lifetimes are ways of amplifying or speeding up the learning process....

That's my humble two cents...and it's funny to see this,my mom was just arguing with me, in a good natured fashion, that she just didn't "want" to believe in reincarnation...b/c the thought was crazy to her as to why she would have chosen to come back to this sometimes very painful life on earth...lol...I feel that..and have thought so countless times....but I really think we can choose how we evolve or if....free will seems central to so much in life...:)

Ah, Chumley, I didn't think we'd be getting into Quantum Physics...discussions about that can go on for weeks.   :)  I'll just keep it short and say that while there are infinite aspects of ourselves in infinite places and in infinite varieties, you can only work with the ones you have current awareness of.  And, personally, I only know of one person who is able to maintain awareness of 4 of his aspects at once for short periods of time.  It can get rather confusing and exhausting.  The most I've been able to do is two of me at once for very short periods.  Minutes at the most.  So, this aspect of me has the understanding that the earth dimension I'm in right now is finite.   ;)  

Choir practice?  Yeh, they'd throw me out in about 2 minutes.

Note : Not replying or addressing anyone in particular. Rather, commenting (in the style of "IMHO") adressing the ideas. Sharing of perspectives, and so on. If you don't agree with it or it doesn't feel right to you, it's your soul saying that it (or to be precise, what you interpreted it as, based on your own belief patterns, ideas, and your, as Byron Katie calls it "uninvestigated stories"), is not correct for you, at least not in the way you interpet or understand it. Then ignore it, and ask yourself what is *your* truth, what your feelings are teaching you about yourself, about your own truth. Clarify it, evolve the matter, share the light in a way as you best see fit.



Quote:

The goal here is to stop incarnating.

No, the goal is to experience physical incarnation (including especially the relationships within) and to allow meaningful benefit from this, evolve and assist others (ie. CosmoEthics) from one's willingness to work with and interact with, the experiences, the karma (karma is a pedagogical tool), the relationships (with others and therefore with oneself), and the personal growth or evolution.

Once the individual soul has evolved beyond the (pre-serenissimus) human level (or the 'level of man', regardless of Earth humans or extraterrestrials) to the Serenissimus (a non-dogmatic name, simply a useful descriptive nomenclature meaning "true serenity"; the 'next level' of evolution for human souls), then by virtue of the best way in which to function and to serve CosmoEthics and further evolution, would be largely (such a consciousness would be capable of operating simultaneously on many levels and dimensions) extraphysical, which might be loosely seen (but often crux of matter is still misunderstood) as "no longer physically incarnating". But it is *not* so much they are no longer physically incarnating, for they are very much a part of the physical world, universe and humanity, but are operating on multi-levels simultaneously within, across and beyond the physical.

To say the goal is to 'stop incarnating' is akin to saying the goal of any college education is the slip of paper (known as "certificate"), rather than the true learning, training and self-discovery that the syllabus (existential programs), modules (life-plans) and/or semesters (lifetimes) were designed to support.

A monk once asked his teacher, "Master, how many lifetimes more before I graduate from physical incarnation?". His teacher replied, "5 more lifetimes."

The monk was dissapointed, shook his head, and thought to himself, "This is not acceptable. I will study the religious books harder, I will do more good deeds, I will pray more, I will meditate more..."

After a few months of intensified efforts, he asked his teacher, "Master, how many lifetimes more before I graduate from physical incarnation?". His teacher replied, "15 more lifetimes."

The monk was shocked, and upset. "How can this be? I must have been slacking. I must work harder at the goal of no-longer-reincarnating! Study harder, do more good deeds, pray more, meditate more... uuggghhh..."

After several years of frantic efforts, he asked his teacher, "Master, how many lifetimes more before I graduate from physical incarnation?". His teacher replied, "50 more lifetimes."

You see, the poor monk was totally missing the point of physical incarnation - to experience, not to escape it. By seeking the end of incarnation, he was running away (in his mind, his heart, his experiences) from the very point, purpose and value of physical incarnation - to experience it (including especially all its valuable relationships it affords or catalyzes) as they are, as meaningful, as perfect.

You say perfection does not exist? We say everyone's perfect. You say God does not exist? We say everyone's God. You say that being in physical incarnation is somehow lousier than being 'no longer incarnated', We say we are *all* simultaneously physically incarnated *and* operating extraphysically. The beings that are intraphysically incarnated, are our intraphysical aspects. The beings that are extraphysical and/or no-longer-incarnating, are our extraphysical or no-longer-incarnating aspects. All are equally us. All *are* us.

Hehe, Kyo, I agree.  I just didn't realize anyone would take me so literally.  As I mentioned before, we can only work with the aspects that we are aware of.  From the aspect of the OverSoul, which has much more awareness than "we" on earth do, the awareness is not shut down, but is greatly expanded.  So, the experiences are not so much experienced, as they are known.  I'm a big believer that we are here for the experience, but with experiences comes more awareness, and the desire to continue as an incarnating being (with mostly shut down awareness) is decreased.  For the aspect that we are right now (the small i), the drive to experience is strong.  As one becomes more aware of the ability of expanded awareness, that "experience" becomes more appealing, to the point of stopping human incarnations, losing one's identity, to merge with the OverSoul and become One being with many varied experiences.

In other words, I think we are saying the same thing, in a different way.  

I heard Kyo's story about the monk as it related to martial arts.  "Master, how long will it take me to learn Kung Fu?"    "Ten years."  
"But what if I practice day and night without fail - then how long?"   "Twenty years!"

"But what if I think of nothing else but my Kung Fu?"    "Fifty years!" said the master.  

"But why," the student asked, "does it take longer if I say that I will work harder to learn it?"

"With one eye on the clock trying to learn it quickly, you will only have one eye left to focus on and learn Kung fu," replied the master.

Kyo.does what you are saying about reincarnation mean,that all are life times are maped out for us.  in others words,when we die we are borne again,even as soon as we die.George

george stone wrote on Feb 27^th, 2007 at 10:11pm:

Kyo.does what you are saying about reincarnation mean,that all are life times are maped out for us.  in others words,when we die we are borne again,even as soon as we die.George

To be precise, lifetimes and "existential programs" may be *mapped* out by the soul's Evolutionary Orientor, but your actual life is determined and lived out by your own free will. And no, you do not incarnate again immediately - the intermissive period (period in between lifetimes) in the extraphysical are equally important periods for the soul. Indeed, one could say the physical incarnations are only temporary sorjourns (or temporary 'logins' into a intraphysical-planet-based 'server'), and intermissive periods in the extraphysical represent the real 'home world' for the soul.

Read pg 71 for more on "Intermissive Periods (periods in between lifetimes)".
Read pg 73 for more on "Existential Programs (purpose and syllabus for each lifetime)".
Read pg 74-75 for more on "Planning (the Existential Program) for the next lifetime".
Read pg 77 for more on "Intermissive Courses (lectures and tutorials in the extraphysical to help the more dedicated souls increase the chances of existential success and spiritual awareness in their next lifetime)".

International Consciousness of Academy's "Retrocognitions" :
http://infinity.usanethosting.com/Heart.Of.God/IAC/index.htm

dabears,

Reincarnation is a myth. First of all the reason we carnate in to a flesh body is to create indvidualism, for our soul. Upon the transistion called death, the soul now incased in the indvidualized spirit body, becomes one with the mind, thought, and emotions, and ego(the soul). This is why it is impossible to reincarnate into another body, by doing so the spirit body would be disolved back into the elements, and the soul made pure again, without any conscious memory of it's previous self, the you that existed as a complete unit, exist no more. And no one would want that type of eternal existence, it would be as if you had lived a life on Earth for nothing. This is not a religious veiw point, this is universal law. When people talk about past life regressions, in everyday life, and under hypnosis, and recall these other life times, these are just mere impresions, that are imposed on us, either by, going out of body to the astral planes, or thought influences by spirits that share some common feeling with a carnated person on Earth. These thoughts, as well as every thought that we have ever held, are in the  menory banks of the soul, and are released to the brain at various times, most promiently through hynosis. For example, if you have ever been listening to the radio while driving, and you enter an area of strong interference, you find yourself listening to two radio stations at the same time, while one is dominant, the other still catches your attention, and you are listening to both stations at the same time. We are all just like tiny radio receivers, and sometimes stray thoughts enter our mind without us even knowing, the same way we are constantly being influenced by good, or evil spirits, to do evil things, or even bright ideas, of a new invention, or book idea, that could help humankind, or destroy humankind. This form of stray, and direct thought process is on going from the moment we leave the womb, throughout our lives, and throughout eternity. Although  in the afterlife, when we become spirits, we have the ability now to influence other mortals of Earth, depending on our condition of soul development, we could influence mortals with good thoughts, if we are in a high place, as well as bad thoughts, if we are in a low place or anything that we did not achieve in our current lifetime, as spirits before us have done to us. Sometimes it is something a spirit wants to convey, and this is a means for that spirit to do so. The truth comes full circle, when we are confronted of this when we enter the realm of spirit in the afterlife. Because as you are you now, you will be you for all eternity!

Dimensionally Yours,
Rick
ricktimet

ricktimet wrote on Mar 4^th, 2007 at 3:33pm:

dabears, Reincarnation is a myth. First of all the reason we carnate in to a flesh body is to create indvidualism, for our soul. Upon the transistion called death, the soul now incased in the indvidualized spirit body, becomes one with the mind, thought, and emotions, and ego(the soul). This is why it is impossible to reincarnate into another body, by doing so the spirit body would be disolved back into the elements, and the soul made pure again, without any conscious memory of it's previous self, the you that existed as a complete unit, exist no more. And no one would want that type of eternal existence, it would be as if you had lived a life on Earth for nothing. This is not a religious veiw point, this is universal law. When people talk about past life regressions, in everyday life, and under hypnosis, and recall these other life times, these are just mere impresions, that are imposed on us, either by, going out of body to the astral planes, or thought influences by spirits that share some common feeling with a carnated person on Earth. These thoughts, as well as every thought that we have ever held, are in the  menory banks of the soul, and are released to the brain at various times, most promiently through hynosis. For example, if you have ever been listening to the radio while driving, and you enter an area of strong interference, you find yourself listening to two radio stations at the same time, while one is dominant, the other still catches your attention, and you are listening to both stations at the same time. We are all just like tiny radio receivers, and sometimes stray thoughts enter our mind without us even knowing, the same way we are constantly being influenced by good, or evil spirits, to do evil things, or even bright ideas, of a new invention, or book idea, that could help humankind, or destroy humankind. This form of stray, and direct thought process is on going from the moment we leave the womb, throughout our lives, and throughout eternity. Although  in the afterlife, when we become spirits, we have the ability now to influence other mortals of Earth, depending on our condition of soul development, we could influence mortals with good thoughts, if we are in a high place, as well as bad thoughts, if we are in a low place or anything that we did not achieve in our current lifetime, as spirits before us have done to us. Sometimes it is something a spirit wants to convey, and this is a means for that spirit to do so. The truth comes full circle, when we are confronted of this when we enter the realm of spirit in the afterlife. Because as you are you now, you will be you for all eternity! Dimensionally Yours, Rick ricktimet

That is your belief i'm sure you think you've got a good basis for it but so do others with strong beliefs based on experience and knowledge so I can hardly just accept - oh yeah its all solved now  ::)

Some say individuality is a myth as we merge back into cosmic consciousness at the highest planes or that linear time is an illusion or that good and evil exists or it doesn't.

It seems as though most people on this board believe in some type of re-incarnation. The part of your argument that doesn't quite hold up is what about new born babies that die, or infant mortalities?. Numerous souls do not have the opportunity to create an a real individualism. Doesn't it make sense that they should be allowed to re-incarnate.

The fear that it would be meaningless is based on the mistaken idea that re-incarnation is an endless cycle that occurs immediately after one life to the next. No I strongly disbelieve in that and the evidence points towards it being a three step cycle life-life between lives-life. But that is if you look at it from a linear perspective. Otherwise we might entertain the fact that parts of our soul essence are all living different lives in different times at once and then perhaps you could entertain that there is no re-incarnation as such because it is not re-occuring rather than occuring all at once because all time exists all at once. Sorry to diverge but I wonder to myself that if time travel is possible then essentially all time would have to exist all at once. Quantum Physics addresses such concepts but explaining and understanding it all might hurt my brain.

It is difficult to get a consensus on this until we get a consensus on the reality of what the soul is individual or group, separation or a 'oneness', reality of time and space?

So many questions, so many different perspectives and not enough time in the earth life you're living now to fully understand it all or even if you can for yourself not enough time to convince other people that your point of view is king, that's what perspectives in a world that conceives of itself in mode of separation and individuality will do for you  ::)

Never Say die,

It is not my intention to change anyone's beliefs, only to state the truth as I have wittnessed it through exploreing, and being in contact with higher spirts. This is sometime the problem with communication with those in our afterlife. The word of lower, unevolved spirts do not know the truths, so by searching your thoughts, they will give you a close opinion that satisfies. I always consult higher evolved spirits for answers, deception is not in their nature. There can be a thousands beliefs and opinions, but only one truth, the truth will always be the truth.

As i have said many times before on this forum, do not accept what I am saying, search, and explore for yourself. Some have just not been enlightened to this high of truth yet. As merging back into the cosmic consciousness, we all evolve towards making the soul shine in it's brightest, perfected form. Since our souls and spirit bodys are made from the very elements, of cosmic consciousness, we do not have to merge, just reach perfection. Linerar time is also a myth, time was created by man to move from event to event. The spirit body incasaed in the body of flesh, has no perception, of it's current state while fully conscious. The only time that exist on Earth for the mortal, and in the spirit world of the spirit, IS NOW.

One in spirit merely has to move from event to event effortlessly, you may know what I am speaking of if you have gone out of body, to the astral worlds. Past, present, future, as well as every endless deminison is before all at the same time, the now. As I have said reicarnation is merely a thought projection that exist in our thought, either by members of our soul group, that have live before us, and want share this with us, as well as other spirits willing to convey an impresionistic thought form. This soul group help make up our disk. As far as good or evil existing, each and every has the ability to create good or evil, it is our free will choice. The part of my aurgument that DOES hold up is esspecially  the death of new born babies, and infant mortalities, one must read betreen the lines, explaining everything leaves no room for discussion, or exercise of one's oun thoughts to fill in the missing blanks.

Let me state again, and try to clearfiy the myth of indviduallity. When we are concieved in the womb, and a still born is the outcome, a soul had never entered that spirit body, and the mission was aborted, due to any number of situations, which might have been a total faliure of the biological entity. Those that are born and soon die due to a fatality, are already indvidualized as a human baby. All the attributes are there, execpt for the learning experience. It is at this time that the newborn goes back to spirit life, grows to full adult, while learning all the lessions and experience of others that can teach them. In the afterlife you will find many of these spirits that have very little mortal experienc in the flesh, or none at all.

There are many that look after the childern as they arrive, and are comforted and taught by many wise and powerful spirits, just as when we enter spirit life we will also teach, if this is what we choose. Many new borns choose this method of early fatatlity, to teach the parent, one of their soul group, a valuable lesson, while some do not want to experience the hardship of the Earth life school, while others are impatiently awaiting an incarnation into the flesh. Recarnition is only an endless cycle as believed and worshiped inthe eastern religions, and hold no fondation of truth, as you will see when you enter the spirit world, either out of body, or when you leave the physical body for the last time. This truth will be revealed to you. It is also implying that the creator, be it God, the source, or cosmic consciousness, what ever the belief, constantly errors, and is imperfect.

The laws of God, and the universe, are always in effect, never changing, and favoring no one. If you would talk face to face with spirit, if it were posiable, and ask them if they would come back, they would tell you they would'nt come back if you gave them the universe. There is no need for further suffering in the flesh, belive me once is enough for anyone, and once you see this physical exixtence for the illusion it is, you will feel the same way. As far as between lives, there is only one life, the life of spirit in the astral worlds, the place we came from, the place we shall return to. As far as time travel goes it is possible, but not the way great scientific minds see it, the merely invision it as a physical, we all merely rely on our physical sences, instead of our non-physical sences.

Time, past present, and future, exist a a vibration on the physically Earth exactly where it existed in it's past tense, if it is the past, vibratinig at it's own frequency, in the same place it has always existed. As far as the future, it exist as a probable at it's own frequency in it's own place in the astral, waiting to maiifest itself at the given event, as called on Earth, TIME, in it's appropriate location before us. Quantamly all time is now, the only thing that separates it distintly, is our consciousness of it. As I state in my book, if you want to enter a time period, find the vibration, enter that time period.

Once you do you will find that you can fold space like a piece of notebook paper to the destination of your choice, anywhere in the galaxy. I am surprised that more scientist do not know of this principal.
Also as stated in my book, I have never read any books on science or physics, and would not know the name of any of these books that the teach in the universities. Being a tenth grad high school drop out, I feel I have more knowledge than I deserve but this has been channeled to me. Although i get my teaching form the astral schools, and not Earthly teachings. As far as the soul, the sou is createdl, and divided into two, at it's creation,  it is divided from it's soul group. After a life cycle that the two souls that have incarnated into, they return to the spirit world to be joined together, as two indivual souls to experience each other, and their lives for eternity, and to benefit spirits, and mortals, with the experience they have gained.

I did not mean for this to be a novel, but it is difficult to convey the spiritual in Earthly terms. but as I state in many radio interviews, I could write endless books on the information I have stored, within my soul, and in my true home, the astral worlds of our afterlife.

Dimensionally Yours,
Rick Lipani
ricktimet

Ricket time

If you break that up into paragraphs, I may just read it!  ;)

What OOBD said...

Not trying to pick on you, but I'm up to feed the cat...read a second...up to load the woodstove...read a second...up to feed the horses...etc.

No way I'm going to try and push through that much interrupted text, even if I didn't have to find my place again!  So pretty please...make it readable?

Cricket

I have broken down my last post, for those that may have trouble reading it, (oob dude).

Before we critize others, let us first critize ourselves, by picking out our own faults.
I thought this forum was a place for sharing, and gaining knowledge, to benifit each other, but I have seen a great deal of negativity from some of it's members, that seems that they are above everyone else. I have never critized anyone on this forum, only to convey information, that I know with all my soul to be the truth, and not to claim to be better than anyone else, or not to disrespect their belief system, only to state what I know, as food for thought.

We on this forum keep forgeting thoughts are things:

If we hate, we will be hated
If we decieve, we will be decieved
If we lie, we will be lied to
If we project thoughts of love, we will be loved

This is the Law of attraction, and never has any exceptions, in it's operations.

"The narrow minded stand still, while the broad minded move foward!" (A quote from my book: Beyond the Realm..."We are More Than Physical Beings!")

And in closing, at the end of my Book, "I state". When we all meet in the afterlife, all will say,"Rick, you were right"

And I say this not to be right, and better than everyone else, and that I have one up on them, but it is as I have wittnessed, and that has changed me, and I hope it can change others, by exploring fully, as I have.

This not a scolding, or a touch of anger, only that information sometimes dose not come to us in easy form, as many will attest in the realm of spirit, when exploring where many things come to us at once, and it is up to us to break it up in a way wew can relate to.

I am here because I care, and I am here because I want to share.



Dimensionaly Yours,

Rick Lipani
ricktimet

I have to agree with out of body dude. It is really hard to read a post when it doesn't have paragraphs.