My story is a long one...I am an ET abductee and my experinces began in 1993...but then they took an awful turn in 1998 when I was violently and psychically attacked by a demonic presence. My energy system was quickly compromised, and said entity gained access to parts of my autonomic nervous system. I am completely and forcibly blocked off physically from feeling any of my external experiences (for example, whether you realise or not, there are sensations you are feeling physically as you read this, I on the other hand feel absolutely nothing...as if the outside world is a blank slate). What I am realising is that the sensations received from the external are associated with the creation of certain emotions. When the external is blocked off, the emotion does not emerge. However, said entity has been able to stimulate sensations to various life conditions, basically in an attempt to condition and alter all sense of reality (to use a metaphor to explain...imagine touching a hot radiator and your brain is telling you it is cold).

I have recognized this as an isolation tactic for said entity to entrench itself further and further into me. It broke me down physically, mentally, and emotionally and when I was broken down far enough, many of my aspects were ripped out. To add insult to injury, "false aspects" were created and inserted in place of my aspects...most likely reasoning again had to do with conditioning (ie, respond this way to friends, see the world this way, etc). The false aspects "did not fit" well, and many were rejected.

I had to dissociate from the sensations I was experiencing at the hands of this entity in order to survive and distance myself from it's attempt at enforcing it's logic...it is not perfect and I have nearly died several times.

In 2003, I endured what some in the UFO community call a data download, a massive, powerful channeling of energy seemingly intiated by those that serve the Creator and the ET group that originally was picking me up in an attempt to free me or at least give me a leg up. It partially worked, but I had good and bad fighting over me and fighting to "channel me" during that time...I don't think the "nice ETs" that intervened entirely understood or could understand how far gone I was. I often couldn't tell the difference between who was or was not speaking to me with my higher faculties surpressed.

I am winning slowly and tediously and I believe I am closer to the Creator than I was before. I believe I would pass on to the higher levels, may have to fight to get there.

I have met those who are like me, I am sadly not unique in the attacks I endure. They now fear death wondering if these cretins will still have control when they pass on. Will they never see those who love them again? I tell them yes, because even though it may seem we are forgotten in this life, we are not. I know my loved ones who have passed on still think of me and I know my suffering is not unseen by higher powers...and I believe the same is true for others like me.

But I also know that senses and sensory input can shape our reality and it is hard to think you are loved and cared for when it feels like you have been left to die.

Can someone please help me provide proper input to assist those who are suffering and frightened their torture will continue past the physical life?

This is the intro I use on several forums...it explains part of what happened during the download...

I’m an abductee and the experiences from what I can remember started back in 1993…but that’s not what I came here to talk about. What I wish to get more information on are experiences that started with me in 1998, experiences that amount to a form of psychic attack. The story is far too long and complicated so I’m going to skip a lot of details. The next two paragraphs are just descriptive arguments to give a metaphorical background of what has been happening to me, but please read it, even as simplistic as it may sound. It’s annoying but it was the only way I knew how to describe what was happening to me.

Besides the physical senses, thoughts and emotions are also senses of a sort that enable people to perceive reality. These mental and emotional senses are developed throughout your lifetime(s), and their use enables one to recognize that items in reality possess an assignable value. However, when things conflict in this perceptively linear existence, an individual cannot value everything at the same level of importance. Thus, valuable things are organized in an order of priority. Some things are considered low, petty, and inconsequential. This allows us to walk away from situations involving little things and allows us to place our attention on either medium level (normal life responsibilities) to high-level priorities (life and death emergencies requiring immediate attention).

Priorities are not assigned the same way each time because each situation is different depending on the context of the situation. I’ll use the old Philosophy example of being at a stop light with a No Turn on Red posting. It’s against the law to turn on red and during normal life when nothing else of equal or greater value is present to cause a conflict of interest, the law is given the highest priority. Let’s suppose an ambulance with lights flashing comes up behind you while you’re at the No Turn on Red stoplight. The context of the situation has changed with the introduction of a conflict of interest: the priority of the law versus the priority of a human life. Morality would dictate that you break the law and turn on red to get out of the way of the ambulance.

What has been happening to me is a kind of overwriting of the thoughts and senses. What you would normally associate with a situation is overwritten and a new thought or emotion is inserted, to a certain degree. What this successfully does is alter your sense of reality so the constantly changing context of reality is indiscernible (Imagine not being able to remember why it’s important to get out of the way of the ambulance…this is an extreme example, and the only way I can describe what has been happening to me. The only other example I can provide…imagine somebody taking over your sense of touch and every time you touched a hot radiator, they made it so you’re brain is saying the sensation is cold). Whoever is doing this seems to keep a person intact just enough so they can go about life, but attack on a level that deprives the target of an inability to interact correctly with life and cooperate and compromise appropriately with people. Suddenly, the people around you are treating you negatively because of how they perceive you, and you neither know why or how to change it. As people stop cooperating and compromising with you, your everyday life needs go unfulfilled and invalidated. Suddenly the little things become life and death and it causes the person to fall outside the protective social boundaries. The person becomes isolated and unable to function. This further puts them under the control of whoever is initiating the attack.

It's like you’re kidnapped off the street, removed from your support systems and locked away in the cell of a dungeon. The perp holding you walks through the cell door, brings in a dog, and asks you to identify the animal in front of you. You reply ”It's a dog.” The perp says, “No, it's a cat.” Well it sounds ridiculous, you know the animal in front of you is a dog and you begin to argue with the perp to prove your argument. But your thoughts and emotions aren't working correctly and you can't make the proper associations to support your argument. Instead you're feeling yourself flooded with thoughts and emotions that don't feel like yours and support your perp’s argument that the animal is a cat, not a dog. As this process continues you begin to feel your “sense of self” fragment (totally aware, no anesthesia). Suddenly, you find yourself in a situation where you know the animal is a dog, but you cannot remember the reasons why. Contradictions no longer exist or have meaning. At last you're so confused and broken you concede that the animal is a cat, just to make the pain of the self-disintegration stop. Then your perp says, “No it's not a cat, it's a duck.” By then there is a vague awareness of what is happening to you, but you can't remember why it was important to fight back, why your life had meaning, why you loved others or others loved you, why it was important to care, why it was important to cry. In the end, your emotions and thoughts possess neither value nor meaning, but your perp’s thoughts and emotions hold all the value and meaning, no compromise. Personal boundaries, contexts, all meaning, all value is whatever the perp defines.

I suffered like this for 5 years, barely staying alive, many times almost dying or taking my life. Finally, in 2003, somebody (positive greys and other higher help) got “tired of watching you suffer” (as the phrase was said to me repeatedly). I underwent what some in the UFO community refer to as a Data Download, a massive, uninterrupted, powerful channeling of information. Again, very long complicated story, I am only going to relate several key aspects that have me a tad concerned. Please understand that in fighting for my life for 5 years and thinking like I was going to die, I wasn’t really paying attention to current events, so treat me like someone who just got rescued from Gilligan’s Island and has absolutely no clue what is happening today.

It started out with me hearing the greys (I’m assuming positive energy greys) telling me a story about them…there were two main groups of greys, one positive and the other negative. The negative group came about in part as a result of some kind of negative entity (or “neg” for short as Robert Bruce would say). This neg acted as a virus and infected some of the greys (altering their moods and personality) by jumping from mind to mind. For whatever reason, it was hard for the positive greys to find out who was infected and who wasn’t. Meanwhile, the neg greys would go about unnoticed and assist in the further infection of the group mind (right terminology?). The positive greys, trying desperately to stop the spread of this neg, cut off the neg greys they had successfully identified from the group mind and quarantined them. However, the positive greys felt they could not just discard this group of infected greys (“they’re our people”). They took the quarantined greys and placed them in tubes (I was visually shown greys floating in these tubes). The infected grey was then removed from his body and placed into a new body and this freed the grey from the neg influence. But with problems identifying neg greys…the infection continued.

It was alluded to during the download that I was being attacked by these neg greys for whatever the reason. At one point during the download I was caught in the middle of an argument ensuing between the two polarized groups. I heard what sounded like some sort of threat made against contactees and then heard the positive greys insist, “We will never let you do to our contacts what you have done to us.”

Next thing I know, I’m being told (paraphrasing) “We’re going to take you several years into the future and show you what may happen.” I want to emphasize here that what was said to me is not set in stone. More likely I was presented with a set of absolute worst-case scenarios.

I was shown images of people I was told were contactees and they were suffering exactly what I had been through: sensory manipulation and channeling, sensory cloaking and deprivation, and self-fragmentation…it was ugly. There were “human helpers” assisting the neg greys and neg entity and they seemed hell bent on getting control over all the contactees. Contactees were followed, in some cases kidnapped, literally running for their lives. I listened in my head to three contactees being attacked in the manner I was. The first one was a male and reacted to the attacks in a belligerent, combative way, fighting as hard as he could. But I was shown as time passed how he got weaker and weaker until finally I could barely hear or feel him anymore. The second contactee was also male and this one tried desperately to get help for himself and others. But he was turned away repeatedly and shunned and that destroyed him faster than the attacks. He also over the passage of time grew lower and lower in energy until I could barely hear or feel him. The last contactee was a female and I tried talking to this spectre…all I could hear was this low, pathetic, dying whisper, “I can’t think anymore.”

The most bizarre thing that happened during the download was someone’s attempt to teach me how to channel. I should say here that not all the information I received during the download seemed to be from a positive source. Often there was clashing of positive and negative fighting to get through, and in this case, I think my attention was captured by something or someone negative. I felt an impression to sit down and close my eyes. Upon doing so, I was inundated with swirling 3D shapes and numerous background sounds, very confusing, very disorienting. I mentally reached out to touch one of the swirling 3D shapes and I heard a sharp, commanding reprimand, “NO!” This would happen time and time again to the point where I would finally give up. Some time later I was drawn back to do this again, so I sat down, shut my eyes, and back came the swirling 3D shapes and background sounds. Remembering what happened the last time I sat and did not attempt to try to reach out to one of the shapes. Suddenly, I felt a nudge to specifically touch one of the shapes. I reached out and touched it and (hard to remember or describe what happened next), it opened up and I heard a voice say, “Good that is what I wanted you to do.” After receiving the “praise” I was then presented with a question appearing in mid air and below were it floating flash cards with statements written on them. You know questions that ask things like, on a scale of one to ten, how would you rate this, I feel great, I feel fine, I feel awful. That’s what it was like, an incomplete floating question with multiple answers of varying degrees of intensity. I was nudged to circle the flash card that would be associated best with the question (I should add that as the questions were asked, I was “learning” through the questions that the appropriate answers were not based on my thoughts and feelings). I would mentally draw a circle around the flash card with the answer. When I did, the other flash cards would fall away and the one I chose would fall last….then rise back up again and shake up in down in a nodding yes fashion as if to confirm.

I am writing this particular episode because I am concerned about the way it was put across,…the movement, swirling shapes and noise, I couldn’t concentrate. Everything to overload your senses so you just shut down, but open enough to receive the nudge and feel the praise when selecting an option based on someone else’s thoughts and emotions (and boundaries). Like, good doggie, good obedient doggie. That’s how it came off. I eventually got tired of not being able to concentrate and left this unpleasant teacher behind.

Today I have hooked up with some people I am getting help from, but I am concerned because of what they have described encountering while providing assistance. They have encountered neg greys, tall (9-12ft) black robed entities, and human perps sitting in a chair and hooked up to a machine of some kind (the people helping me are individuals working alone and not part of a group. Each individual reported seeing the same odd thing). One of the people helping me has described the humans hooked up to the machines as acting as a sort of anchor for the negs involved to manifest their intentions in the physical. The human perps, with the assistance of the negs and the machine, form neg energy attachments in their targets which start in the spinal column and go as far as the will centers in the back of the neck (I was told I had such attachments when I was first getting help). There is also manipulation of the crown chakra, blocks of the third eye, and other forms of energy manipulation affecting flow (and in turn affecting thoughts and emotions). One individual giving assistance has expressed to me his shock at how far into the auric sheath my perps have gotten, basically, unwanted things coming and going through my aura as it pleases, unabated. Please note that the above is a very generalized interpretation of what has been seen by the people helping me.

There is so much more to all this, but this post is long enough. Has anyone heard of anything similar to this, or heard/seen human attackers hooked up to some kind of machine (and where are they coming from). One more thing (also from the download), has anybody heard of the grey leadership passing on to 5D?
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Just more stuff I have been posting with regards to what my perps have been doing to me,...in the event someone out there sees themself in me.

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When you stay perfectly still, you'll notice a flow to your thoughts. They drift to events past, present, what you may want to do in the future...usually the thoughts that pop up do so from some stimuli present around you (something reminding you of something, got it?). Part of what is happening to me is that there is no flow to the thoughts...like a block appears, and it's a very fake feeling. And I realize you can't know what I'm describing in terms of sensation because you would need some kind of reference standard to compare to, and you don't have any. All you can do is read my account here. My thoughts don't flow or drift to whatever the stimuli would normally have it associate to. Emotions work in a similar fashion and the same thing is happening. The emotions don't flow to whatever association it would normally go to. What IS happening is that I am flooded with emotions/thoughts that would NEVER be associated with whatever stimuli I am encountering (there is a feeling coming from my back, like my back is opened up). Like I said, putting a hand on the hot radiator (stimuli) and the message to the brain (associated thought) is "This is what cold feels like." You would never associate a cold sensation to an operating radiator. The experience is very artificial in feeling, but you don't understand for the life of you why this is happening and why you can't associate properly (that causes the most damage). You can’t walk away from a problem like this because the only way to do so is to completely dissociate from your senses…permanently. Doing that completely destroys the self.

How is all this playing out in my life? If someone does something to you that comes off as annoying, you feel the irritation for a bit then it washes off. The only way it can stay is if you hold onto and deliberately dwell on it. I've had experiences where someone will do something annoying and the sensation of irritation I experience is 100x larger than it should be without me providing any assistance (no logical reason or source for the amplified sensation). Normally to get past such a situation, one places their focus on something new to allow new stimuli to be experienced. This creates new mental/emotional sensations and associations that cause the old sensations and associations to pass and be replaced. That doesn't happen with me...the flow of new sensation halts and new associations cannot be made (memories of associations from previous, similar experiences are blocked and cannot be recalled). Instead of the irritation passing or being replaced when I try to place my focus on something else, the sensation of irritation stays. Then on top of it, I am flooded with over exaggerated thoughts and feelings promoting the 100x irritation sensation to extend even higher (again, no logical source of stimuli). There is no rest, and all this hell is done to me 24/7.

Yet, you're completely free to write the long posts you just wrote. You can't be that oppressed, can you?

I push and sacrifice to get it done...and the second long post I have on disk so I don't have to expend energy retyping everything.

Thank you for your time, I should have known better.

Light being:

Have you ever thought about what will is? It isn't something that exists at the level of thought. It exists at the level of one's soul. The only way thought patterns can get the best of one,  is if one makes the decision to live according to such thought patterns. People make the decision to be effected by undesirable thought patterns because they don't know better. But once they get in touch with their will center on the soul level, which is the same thing as being in touch with love, goodness and as you say, "Creator", they have something else to align their will with other than negative thought patterns.

The will center of one being cannot overtake the will center of another being. That would be like one soul trying to take over another soul, and since all souls are divine, this would never happen. The most an unfriendly spirit could do is send you negative thought patterns and hope that you'll respond to them.  As long as you are in touch with reality sufficiently enough, you'll be able to use your will in a manner that suits your higher needs. The fact of how you still have the freedom to be concerned about what has been happening for you and others rather than going along with the negativity you have experienced, shows that your will still has a definite connection to that which knows better-divine inspiration. There is no way that negative thought patterns are stronger than the divinity your soul connects you with. So have faith in your will at your soul level, whenever unpleasant influences come your way.

Did all of this start happening to you before you read about such things, or after? If after, don't under estimate the power of your mind to create fragments that seem to have a foreign appearance.

I speak from experience. I've had experiences where I thought I was being possessed. I found that fragments of my mind that believed in the possibility of possession caused me to have such experiences. As soon as I would come to my senses, such an experience would end. I noticed that such fragments of mind would try to sneak up on me after I woke up in the middle of the night.  I also found that just thinking about such a thing, can cause such fragments to come to life.  Once I stopped believing in the fragment of my mind that asserted that I was being possessed, it no longer had the power to assert itself. It required me to provide it with power, by consciously choosing to believe that it expressed an actual fact. This is how this completely unnecessary thought fragment developed. First it believed that possession was a possibility. Next it believe that it might happen to me. Then it believed that it was happening to me.  It gathered whatever memories my mind had gathered, to create its fable.

Regardless of what is causing you have negative experiences, I believe it is very possible that positive forces are trying to help. Especially since you seem like a person who wants to do what is right. I found that the divine forces that help me couldn't help me with the possession fragments I spoke about, until I realized that my own mind was creating the negative experiences I had.

P.S. I hope you don't mind me changing your name, but I want to think of you in a positive way.  I want to see you as a powerful spirit being who "can't" be overcome by negative thought patterns.

Yeah, what recoverer says is excellent information to take in! I'll add on my two cents as well...

Once, you have a negative thought just use positive reinforcement.. Turn a negative thought into a positive thought by thinking about someone you love or God.. Ask God for guidance and your guides for guidance.. Always keep a positve outlook on everything. Realize God, light beings(angels), your spirit guides are always there to help you and are trying to get through to you! That is why you are looking for help because they are trying to show you that you are not alone and people can help you.. Also, because you have a positive outlook by the fact that you are thinking you can conquer this negative entity! That is why you are asking for help! Your guides are putting positive thoughts in your head! So, just realize good always conquers evil.. LOVE Is the key to win the battle!

I hope you don't think these entities are demons! Because they will grab ahold of you and create such beings in your mind.. Just remember there is no such thing as demons!!! They are projections from our fears! So, these things are not powerful at all... Only if you give them power like thinking they are like demonic gods are something like that..  Which they are not !! They are just like you and me only they are evil spirits that are immature and cynical!

I will pray for you okay! :)

Wise words from Recoverer and Da_Bears (here though we must look carefully)... Light Being it will end when you take control of your Will and clothe your Ego in the Light of Christ.

Your post is an example of Luciferic influences in the astral world.  Be strong now Light Being and think over this very carefully for it is not a joke nor is it taken lightly.  Ask for the protection of Christ; the Light shines in the dark 100 fold time and times half again.

This place is called the astral regions of evil - it is where Satanaku, because his misuse of free-will, has been confined and banished and his powers of interference have been curtailed until the day of God's wrath upon this soul hijacking.

Light Being please read my post The Piscean Age for further understanding on what is happening to you.  I send you Light and Love and would like to chat to you after.

"I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me"  Philippians iv.13

augoeideian
 

I Am That I Am

I am that I am, I move upon the face of the waters, upon the Earth and within the heavens of the great cosmic universe.  My throne is the heart of the sun through which I manifest my power and give life and light unto my creations.  I am the beginning and the end.  I live in the hearts of all men and can be plucked as a ripe fruit to give knowledge and understanding to the children of my breath.  I am in the wind and rain, in the fire and the frost and all nature is my house wherein I dwell.  Come forth ye reapers and gather in the harvest of my knowledge that the sickness of men may be healed and they may turn again towards my loving embrace.

I can't say that I agree with augoeideian about the Lucifer part, but I do agree with her about the Christ part.  I was somewhat closed to his presence for a while because I connected the idea of him to some fundamentalists ideas I don't care for. But I kept it open, and through various experiences and messages I found that Christ is a significant part of the spiritual welfare of the human race, and if you ask for his help with sincere intentions, he will help you. My feeling is that he can help as many people as he wants.

Regarding negative influences, while in the World, each of us has the ability to either move in the direction of darkness or in the direction of love and light. Obviously Christ represents the direction of love and light.  Are there some unfriendly spirits out there? I would say yes. But no way are they powerful enough to effect a person who dedicates his or her self to higher principles.

Quote:

I speak from experience. I've had experiences where I thought I was being possessed. I found that fragments of my mind that believed in the possibility of possession caused me to have such experiences. As soon as I would come to my senses, such an experience would end.

This very thing has happened to me as well.  During one of my gateway exercises I felt a presense and heard somthing close to me.  Suddenly the idea of possession popped into my mind, and before I knew it I was in panic-mode.  I had such a feeling of dread, and thought I was being possessed.  However, I soon began to think.. This is all in my mind.  I cannot get possessed because I do not entertain the possibility of it occuring.  Nothing can possess me, I know this for a fact and therefore I am not being possessed.  As soon as I realized this, the frightening experience was over and I was good to go.




Quote:

This place is called the astral regions of evil - it is where Satanaku, because his misuse of free-will, has been confined and banished and his powers of interference have been curtailed until the day of God's wrath upon this soul hijacking.

I am very upset with this.  This is why so many people are god-fearing, rather than god-loving, god-understanding, and god-conscious.  This is a very primitive and fear provoking way of looking at god.  If you want to believe there is some big bad god man who sheds his wrath upon those who "misuse" their free will, that is fine, but I would encourage you not to share this view with others because it does nobody any good.  We need to get away from these false stereotypes, there is no love in them.  There is no love in confining and banishing and showing wrath.  It is rediculous that people worship a god figure who displays such hateful emotions.

Regarding the below, here are three possible explanations for possession cases:

1. In some instances, for whatever reason, a person gets overtaken by fragments of his or her own mind. If a person's belief in possession is real strong, he or she will have a hard time seeing that fragments of his or her own mind are responsible.
2. Some people disconnect themselves from goodness and love so much, that when a negative minded spirit comes along they don't know how to resist. All a negative minded spirit has to do is feed a few negative thoughts and the ball gets rolling.
3. Some people believe in the power of things such as demons so strongly, that when a negative minded spirit comes along they don't have enough confidence in themselves and/or the divine powers that be to stand up to such a presence. They end up experiencing as they believe. People who like to spend a lot of time talking about the impressive power of dark spirits don't do people a favor when they depower them by scaring them. If they really wanted to help people they'd inspire them to have faith in their ability to stand up to a negative minded spirit. If a person makes the decision to connect themselves to that which is divine and the source of all, it doesn't make sense that a confused spirit who has cut itself off from that which is divine could take over such a person's will.

I SAY EMPOWER THE PEOPLE! DON'T TURN THEM INTO PEOPLE WHO BURRY THEIR HEADS IN THE SAND SIMPLY BECAUSE SOMETHING SMELLY COMES ALONG.

Regarding cases where possession has supposedly happened, if you really looked into such cases with an open mind, you would find that there are explanations which show that negative minded spirits can't come and overtake a person's will anytime they want to. Other factors are involved, such as the factors I mentioned above. You would also find that there is nothing that proves that something other than a confused negative minded earthbound spirit is responsible.  Even if a person somehow made contact with a spirit within a lower realm, perhaps through the practice of something such as black magic, you're still just talking about a spirit that used to be human and that has cut itself off from the divine power of its soul. I agree with Emanuel Swedenborg on this point. Negative minded spirits aren't satan created spirits. They are confused former human spirits.

I work as a volunteer at a hospital. Sometimes patients with psychological problems stay on the floor I work on. I've found that they haven't been taken over by a negative spirit. It is more of a matter of things reaching a point where they've lost conscious control over which of their thought patterns become a reality for them, and which don't.

Regarding extraterrestrial influences, I don't know the details. Howard Storm's and Rosalind Mcknight's books state that there are unfriendly alien beings, but beings who represent the light don't allow them to effect us.  If a person chooses to connect his or herself to an unfriendly being, things might work out differently.


I Am Dude wrote on Feb 21^st, 2007 at 1:15pm:

[quote]I speak from experience. I've had experiences where I thought I was being possessed. I found that fragments of my mind that believed in the possibility of possession caused me to have such experiences. As soon as I would come to my senses, such an experience would end.

This very thing has happened to me as well.  During one of my gateway exercises I felt a presense and heard somthing close to me.  Suddenly the idea of possession popped into my mind, and before I knew it I was in panic-mode.  I had such a feeling of dread, and thought I was being possessed.  However, I soon began to think.. This is all in my mind.  I cannot get possessed because I do not entertain the possibility of it occuring.  Nothing can possess me, I know this for a fact and therefore I am not being possessed.  As soon as I realized this, the frightening experience was over and I was good to go.

Dark Knight wrote on Feb 20^th, 2007 at 9:03am:

I am winning slowly and tediously and I believe I am closer to the Creator than I was before. I believe I would pass on to the higher levels, may have to fight to get there. I have met those who are like me, I am sadly not unique in the attacks I endure. They now fear death wondering if these cretins will still have control when they pass on. Will they never see those who love them again? I tell them yes, because even though it may seem we are forgotten in this life, we are not. I know my loved ones who have passed on still think of me and I know my suffering is not unseen by higher powers...and I believe the same is true for others like me. But I also know that senses and sensory input can shape our reality and it is hard to think you are loved and cared for when it feels like you have been left to die. Can someone please help me provide proper input to assist those who are suffering and frightened their torture will continue past the physical life?

Hello Knight:

Love will always win out over fear. It appears that you know this and that you are encouraging others near you to remember this. The more you do this, the stronger you each will become. Focus on the heart, on love, and you cannot go wrong.

love, blink

Hi Dude

Your honest comment is appreciated. I don't like to write about it either - I can tell you that.  So what must we ignore it?  The person has said they are demonically oppressed - must we sugar coat it and say that's okay you'll get over it, take a asprin and you'll feel better in morning - or beat around the bush until the final conclusion is announced?  There is enough evidence for Luciferic influences to be taken seriously.

It is best not to think about them at all and concentrate on light and love but when someone posts a post like that or if we meet someone who has lost control must we turn a blind eye? Yes like DaBears post said we create our own demons - this is true however, the above said influences take advantage of these moments of weakness, they thrive on human's weakness.  It is good to be aware of it and be strong, in control and in balance of one's life.

Dearest Blink has in fact highlighted Knight's struggle between dark and light.  Knight, yes there is Higher Help you just have to ask for it.  This is God's wrath because you are part of Him and He is part of you, how dare these ugly things think they even can touch you? You have a divine spark in you, use it like a thunderbolt of lightning.

Everyone is born innocent I believe God sees us as been innocent, what He also sees is the lower astral realm and the fallen influences and how human's get sucked into it.  He wants you to take His hand which is extended out to you.

I would have said nothing different in my reply to you Knight.  Recoverer, a wise post again especially the head stuck in the sand part.

Caryn

What I was saying is that it is wrong to depict god as a vengeful being, for all this does is envoke fear into peoples hearts.  Not only is it morally wrong because it scares people, but it is also factually wrong.  First of all, if we are looking at god as a creative force, the source, then it is plain silly to think that this force displays vengence and anger towards anything.  These are human emotions.  Not emotions of a devine force.  Now if we are looking at god as the Christians see it... then this personified king of heaven or whatever you want to call him, is going to show vengance and anger? But I thought this god was all about love and forgiveness?  Thoughts and teachings about this god are very condradicting.  People will say one thing and then turn around and say another, and somehow seem to believe both sides without seeing their folly of logic.  So as I said before, if you choose to believe in this version of god, that is fine, but it is detrimental to young, fragile, or confused minds to fill their head with negative thoughts regarding god or the afterlife.  Especially when these thoughts are false.  

Dude, from your post I can see you have no understanding or relationship with God.

From this I can also see you have not read the Bible once and have no concept of Christian History. With this
you are making an uneducated statement by saying these thoughts are false and therefore I dismiss your opinion
out of hand.  It is obvious in your post you want God to suit your internet cosmology.  And when I said the name Satan
you felt sorry for him in your previous post, which shows me you are young and inexperienced and I wonder do you know what god do you follow? For the god of the dead wants to rule the earth because he cannot rise any higher he will offer you numerous amount of earthly pleasures and say to you 'that's right you can make up your own version of Christianity to suit you and your opinions are so cool because you are actually my slave and you will not be free'.  Read Dark Knight's post again Dude, read the part Blink highlighted.

God is Almighty and God is vengeful, be scared be very scared.  For fear of God is the beginning of knowledge.

And I say to you 'young, fragile, confused minds'?  How pathetic and how typical of your generation - weak and soft
with no strength and lazy with egocentric minds filled with 'me'. No wonder you fall for a weak god, the god of the dead.
You should read about The Maccabees brothers in a Apocrypha Bible they were God's Warriors and they feared God.

I have nothing further to say to you Dude. Take in or leave it, and before you insist on spreading uneducated crap of your opinion of Christianity on the internet read the Bible from cover to cover first.

All:

DK may not return to this site.

What has happened here is that we have had the opportunity to assist a living soul and it has deteriorated into a discussion of personal beliefs of right and wrong.

As has been posted before, everyone's views are valid regardless of where they draw their information. Although beliefs differ from person to person, it is inappropriate to turn this into any competition of personal backgroud, belief and education. These debates could continue endlessly with the only goal appearing to be any one person wanting to be correct about what they are saying.

I am far from being young and inexperienced. I am a very old soul and personal power struggles have no place when a soul, living or dead, is in pain.  We are only committing further violence to this soul in need by behaving in such a shameful fashion. I have not posted a response to DK because based on his post, my experience and knowledge would have evaded him or he would have ignored it. To date, though all of your posts merit attention, recoverer has expressed truly what DK needed to hear, in a way that DK could have understood.

Although important information is contained in the posts, the most important part of this discussion should be: what does DK believe? The fact that he found this board at this time in his life shows that he's already finding a way out of his predicament. It shows a strength of inner character that he, as he writes, struggles to compose a post to chronicle his struggle, his pain, his frustration after nine years. Everyone should feel free to post their knowledge (that is the basis of this entire forum) without worry. If posts contradict one another, so be it. Let those seeking answers draw their own conclusions. Do not draw conclusions for them. We are here to offer help to those who search for answers, not draw conclusions of other members.


E.

I am in agreement with you E. I was frustrated in viewing this thread for that very reason. It quickly took off in a complicated direction which I was doubtful would be helpful. But it is hard to say what is truly helpful and what is not. A person may reject a message one day and later think that perhaps he or she should have given more weight to it.

This site is an open one. Each person is free to express opinions and to clarify those opinions with each other. There are no rules governing this except for striving for respect for each other.

It does require patience to find answers for ourselves, and it does require patience and time to sort through different opinions and find the answers which rest comfortably in our hearts.

I hope Knight knows that we care. We care deeply, or we would not respond. I respect you for your concern and your point is a good one.

This forum is not for the faint-hearted. It can be rough and tumbly at times. But I think Knight will be back. If not now, then later.

Thanks for your thoughts, E.

love, blink

So, Dark Knight, if you have read the responds you see that we're people of many kinds here.
But through this another thing is shown: That it is possible to interprete your experience in different ways. You interprete it the alien-way, Augoeideian has her Christian way on it. That's what Recoverer said too: Once you discover that you can see your personality can be viewed as consisting of parts which hold beliefs, you are able to question this beliefs; if they are still valid, for what reason, which credentials have they, and wether they do a good service or not.
The method, or possibility to see yourself as parts, which can split off, or that you even can become fragmented, is a powerful method of self-exploring and altering, but it has its dangers too. When going into this business, there must be balance, meaning when you investigating your parts, you should as well investigate the integrating center of yours.
Recoverer had it already said well.

Further, to all, generally, I would be careful with hypostasations, I mean things like this: "I feel bad, so there must be an entity that causes it." "There is evil, so there must be an entity responsible for all evil", etc... This is not going to get you very far. Imagination and the exploration of the regions of mind are powerful tools, and it is real, but don't make semi-material entities out of all or confound it with material things and persons.

The mind is greater than just blown up earth-style wars between good guys and bad guys.

Dark Knight, you have already done some great explicit self-exploration, so I hope you will further stabilize and going to have a life that is enjoyable, icluding to help people who are suffering similarly like you do/have done.

Spooky

Dark Knight is obviously living with much fear with his given situation.  All I am saying is, why would you want to add a further element into the equation which would produce fear in DKs life.  If you want to believe God is angry and vengeful then more power to you.  You can believe God tears off peoples heads and drinks the blood for breakfast if that is what makes you content.  But it is not moral to tell someone who is having a hard enough time already that God is a wrathful destroyer of will.  

I have read a lot of the bible.  However, I have read it with an unbiased perspective, and am therefore able to see both sides of the equation.  Yeah, its great.  Its also disgusting.  I don't follow any god.  I don't have to worship a larger than life idol to find peace, love, and spirituality in my life.  I also don't have my own version of Christianity or any other religion.  I choose not to follow the masses and like to think for myself.  My view of god is love and oneness, and I truely believe it will one day soon become the norm.  The shift is happening, as was disscussed in the past thread, and this truth is simply part of it.  This restored truth will help people to live with love, rather than in constant fear mode, afraid they will be burned at the stake for their next wrong move.  Its really ashame that people feel this way, but one day soon they will feel this way no more.

I would like to point out something.  Dark Knight came here asking if there is relief from her tortures in the afterlife.  Instead, she got a lot of preaching about all the things she is doing wrong.  I understand, because I was once just like every one of you.  "Look to the Light, Love conquers all".  You aren't practicing what you are preaching, in the first place.  You took a plea for help and turned it into a debate that failed to address anything she was asking.  Try listening.  You may not have all the answers.  You may not be as aware as you think you are.  

Imagine yourself on Wall Street in the middle of the business day and talking about out of body travel.  You would be considered crazy.  But, are you crazy?  Why would they think so?  Because they haven't experienced what you've experienced.  Dark Knight has experienced something not a one of you have.  It's clear by your posts that you have no deeper understanding than your worst experiences of being afraid of a boogeyman in the dark.  She clearly is asking for help about something that is not in your scope of abilities to even talk about.  It would be more helpful to her if you said that you cared, but that you had no understanding of her problems.  She's looking for someone who has experienced what she has and has found a way out.  Or, at the very least, a reassurance that it won't continue after her physical death.  You've turned her plea for help into an egotistical argument about who knows the most about spirituality and religion.  In the forum I'm on, we would split this thread and ask people to be kinder.

Robert Monroe was very aware of negative entities that exist in the astral.  They are not all dead humans that are trapped, and they are not all one scared person's thoughtforms.  Yes, Dark Knight is scared.  But, I believe many of the things that have happened to her are very real.  No, I'm not an abductee.  I am merely a person who has had to eat her words time after time after poo pooing something I didn't believe in, because I hadn't experienced it.  That's called learning the hard way.  That's called learning what love REALLY is all about.  

Give Dark Knight a little credit.  She has been fighting this for a very long time, has lost so much of her life, and is spending vast amounts of energy trying to be free of this .  Believe it or not, she was once what would be considered a very normal, happy, healthy person.  That most certainly does not draw something this negative into her life.  Would you say that a child who was abducted off the playground drew that to herself by being a negative thinking person?  That is what you are telling Dark Knight.

I have no idea what is torturing her.  My guess is that it is primarily what she said along with some thoughtforms that have been created because of her fear.  But, I guarantee she is not sitting on her butt doing nothing about it.  She has prayed to God, she has tried just about everything anyone could possibly recommend.  She is proactive in her fight.  She is consistently working to help heal others who have experienced what she has.  She is a survivor, and she is amazing.

Dark Knight, back to your original question.  No, they will not follow you into the afterlife.  Your fears of them are the only thing that can keep you trapped.  At the moment of your physical death, imagine yourself in a beautiful, peaceful place and that is where you will be.  And, my promise to you is that I will be there to lend a hand to help you find that beautiful place.
Patty

Hi Patty, Dark Knight, and all,
so maybe the best thing would be that all those of this board who are exploring and involved with healing put some effort to help Dark Knight in their own ways. I personally had no bad experiences with aliens, though I saw in my mind some strange creatures around the earth. It would be very good if finally there would develop more clarity about what is going on regarding the influence of aliens.

I have heard a story of an abductee who passed over, and was contacted then. He told that now, in the afterlife, he has gained much knowledge about what actually had happend and why, as well that this was planned before that last incarnation, and that he was doing fine in the afterlife. As I said, I have heard this, it's not my personal experience. But my belief is, over there we'll have not a simple continuation of our life here with all the horror (if we don't want it).

So I hope that some of us could go and see if there is a way to stop this ongoing terror.

Spooky

Quote:

he has gained much knowledge about what actually had happend and why, as well that this was planned before that last incarnation,

While I also believe this to be true, it still doesn't help her in this lifetime right now.  She is in the midst of it and constantly battling.  For those of you who have actually read Monroe's and Moen's books, and had OBE/Phasing experiences to Focuses 23, 24, 25, 26, and 27, you could help her by explaining what does happen after crossing over.  The comfort of knowing what will happen could go a long way in helping her remove some of her fears now that will help with healing and her struggle with abductions.  I would suggest leaving out any religious mumbo jumbo, as that is not what Monroe's or Moen's books are about.  Save it for the Christian forums.

Personally, I saw myself as simply pointing out to Knight what was being already being done by Knight in a positive manner. I did not intend to even participate in anyone else's answer.  This was simply my short but sweet advice.  According to my understanding.

Others were also pointing out their own versions of truth.

None of this fingerpointing is helping anyone, in my personal opinion.

Who, exactly, is being helped by it? I think everyone here might just relax a bit and remember that spirituality is not a contest, nor is there always a right answer, nor is Knight a little babe in arms.

If I remember correctly, Knight's first reply to Recoverer was fairly sharp. Knight was ready to walk away from the table already.

Anyone who wants answers to their questions needs a little patience.  There are a lot of people here who are still establishing their own ideas, which are changing....BECAUSE WE ARE ALL LEARNING.

Give each other a break, people.

Please.

love, blink

I would like to apologize for being to preachy and not really answering her question.. I will step down from my ego cloud... I should have known better because I am fighting a fear myself about hell.. I am still afraid of going to a hell of fire and brimstone.. Because to me concentrating on having positive thoughts about what if I am not good enough and being judged or sentenced to hell scares me.. Because I still have that catholic upbringing somewhat in me.. So, I still fear the hell of fire and brimstone.. It's hard for me to let go of that when I have been preached about that for many years.. Yes, I finally found the solution to it by your consciouness creates reality in the afterlife.. If, you think you are going to that hell you will get that.. For that matter it's hard for me to let go of that for some reason.. It's hard to think positve after being told the negatives about God and hell for so long!!  

So, Dark Night I hope for the best for you!! I definately think you will beat this fear!! It's definately beatable!!! I think I can beat my fears of hell too!! WE CAN DO IT!! I'm here to help you and so are the others on this board!! Just keep on having faith and keep on getting therapy for help... I know how living in fear is and I feel for you deeply!! It makes me hurt to know how you feel!!! This is something you will overcome though!! Just keep on asking for help and never give up on yourself!!

peace and love I'll keep on praying for ya!! :)

Quote:

The will center of one being cannot overtake the will center of another being. That would be like one soul trying to take over another soul, and since all souls are divine, this would never happen.

Actually, it can happen.  Once again, just because you have either not witnessed it or experienced it for yourself, or your personal belief system does not allow that it would happen, that does not make your belief the absolute truth.  Beliefs can actually get in the way of finding the truth.  They keep you stuck.  Adopting a more fluid system is helpful that allows changes in your knowledge as new information comes to light, makes more sense, or you have personal experience with something.

It's nice to think that God is all lovey dovey and wouldn't let certain things happen, but the reality is that things do happen.  Things that are horrific.  Everything and anything is possible.  It may not be common, you may not believe it, but it is possible.  I'm not trying to destroy anyone's belief system, I'm hoping that you will think for yourself and not blindly follow what the latest popular guru or preacher has said.  

DK, you know it is much easier to create in the astral than it is in the physical.  Things happen much faster in the astral.  When you physically die, you are drawn to the vibration or area that most closely resembles your own vibration.  If you are living in fear, it is possible for you to be trapped in your fears and pulled to that vibration.  I know of two ways that are very helpful in overcoming fears.  One is to learn as much as you can about the afterlife.  Robert Monroe and Bruce Moen have written extensively about it, along with Rosalind McKnight.  

Another thing that can help is using affirmations.  Studies have been done on the brain that show that you can create new neural pathways by using affirmations, even if you don't totally believe the affirmations.  That's one reason prayers sometimes work to conquer fear.  If you are praying for something over and over, it can change the brain pathways to adopt the new thought.

At phsyical death, there are also guides standing ready to help you when you cross.  If you are in a fearful state, they may not be able to get your attention for awhile.  But, eventually, they will, and can escort you to places of healing.  So, yes, it will end.  Most definitely.   :)

Tempestinateapot wrote on Feb 24^th, 2007 at 2:29am:

Quote: The will center of one being cannot overtake the will center of another being. That would be like one soul trying to take over another soul, and since all souls are divine, this would never happen. Actually, it can happen.  Once again, just because you have either not witnessed it or experienced it for yourself, or your personal belief system does not allow that it would happen, that does not make your belief the absolute truth.

Can you present some experiences you have gone through or witnessed which lead you to believe this?  I am not sure what I believe on this one.  Maybe the wills cannot be overtaken, but just influenced.  Then again, maybe they can be overtaken if the victim is weak minded enough to allow such a thing to happen.  No possession case I have heard of has led to to believe the will centers of the individual being possessed has actually been fully overtaken.  It seems as if they are just being influenced, perhaps even deeply influenced, yet it is hard to think that one being can totally take over another being.  Perhaps they can take over their physical body.  But that is not the will center of the being... will resides within the persons soul.  Therefore, I think that to be totally overtaken by a malevolent spirit, ones spirit would also have to be possessed, and I see no way of this being possible.

Greetings,

On Dark Knight's personal page here she has an e-mail address through MSN  or something like that. I tried to email her to invite her back but my attempts disappeared. If someone has compatibility with Microsoft....whatever, she could be invited back to see that we are attempting to help.

Bets

betson, that is really sweet.  I know DK, she is a regular on the forums that I'm on.  So, I sent her a pm with a link here.  I'm hoping she'll read the new posts, but I'm not so sure she'll post.  She has extensive knowledge of negative entities, and really is looking more for afterlife knowledge regarding them at this point.  The last thing she needs is another debate on the liklihood of the existence of negs and ET's and advice on how she needs to look to the light.  I know, because I put her through the same thing over a year ago, got my ego smacked down by those with more knowledge, and had to make a lot of apologies.   :)  Like I said, I usually learn the hard way.  

OBDude, this may be more a matter of us using different terminology with understanding the meaning of will centers.  I may very likely be misunderstanding you.  Are you the Out of Body Dude on R. Bruce's forum?  Just curious, you don't have to answer that.

For what it's worth, here's what I know.  Robert Bruce has written a book on psychic self defense.  Some consider him one of the most accomplished OBE experts in the world.  I'm not advertising, I'm just explaining why I trust him, and I know him personally.  He's actually joining forces right now with Monroe's original sound engineer and developer of Hemi-Sync and starting an online school.  Again, not advertising, just giving some background for understanding.  

Years and years ago, he was doing a depossession of a child.  He lives in Australia and is sought out world wide for these kind of healings.  He's the guy Catholic priests call when they can't help someone.  He was unable to convince or force the demon (or whatever you want to call it) to leave and stop torturing the child, so he told it to go into him.  Now, he had done similar things before, and is powerful enough to deal with it.  This time, he wasn't.  After fighting this negative entitiy for days or weeks for possession of his body back, he was turned into what he called a "virtual puppet".  He wasn't able to control his limbs, as they were being controlled by the demon.  He almost dropped his own baby off of several stories, fighting all the way.  This is not a man with schizophrenia or a "weak will".  This is one of the most grounded, powerful, and spiritual men I've ever met.  And, no, I don't hero worship him.  I've seen his all too human side, too.  He has a long story about how he went into the Australian bush without any supplies with the idea of killing himself to avoid it harming his family.  It's a pretty amazing story, and ended with him winning.

Now, obviously, his "will" was controlled by someone other than himself.  And, this was not a helpless or Godless man.  He is a spiritual giant by anyone's standards.  His "soul" was not lost, if that's what you meant.  But, something pushed him aside and controlled things beyond his will.  After spending time talking with him and others who have a lot more knowledge about the dark side of life than me, I came to a new understanding that these people are not helpless, or psychotic, and know just as much about love and light as I do (probably more).  So, I backed away from giving advice from my glass tower, and leave it to those who have a lot more experience and knowledge.  

I have absolutely no experience with demons.  I have very minimal experience with negative entities who are not disembodied humans while I'm OBE or phasing.  But, around this time that I was learning all of this, I had a client under hypnosis who began describing a negative entity attached to her that the description was identical to others I had heard about.  She had no prior knowledge of anything like this, and was brand new to anything metaphysical.  I had been taught "spirit releasement" in my training, but hadn't done anything like this.  All of my prior experience had been with releasing disincarnate humans.  I was freaked out, to say the least.  I managed to recover enough, and used the spirit releasement techniques that I had been taught.  And, it worked.  Her descriptions were so uncanny, that I understood that I was being taught something new by my Higher Self.  And, my beliefs changed right then and there.  And, most importantly for me, it was time for me to eat crow.   :)

Hi DK-
Obviously, you've created a great deal of interest on the forum, even though most of us are uncertain about just how to go about offering either solace or directly helpful ideas. I'm not going to be much use either, I suspect, but maybe I can add a little background that could suggest ways of attacking your situation. I'll try to organize my thoughts to specific topics.

The lack of "thinking" or "flow of thoughts" is characteristic of a person who has developed a high degree of meditative skill, in which they have learned to "turn off" the thinking mind. For most people, this is actually a normal state that is deliberately expanded in order to get the thinking process to quiet down, and as such it is a high level of yogic development. It seems that for you, this is a state that has spontaneously developed. That does not mean that it is either bad, nor good, but rather that you are going to have to learn to use your mind in a manner different from many of the rest of us. This can be examined more ...

From the mechanical perspective: If this were purely physiological or psychological it would be interpreted as either "schizoaffective" (meaning that it involves fragmented emotional impulses that act like noisy stumulii to cause random discomfort and anxiety, or as "autistic", meaning that it is an interruption of the normaly active channels of emotional interchange and emotional awareness of others. As a clinician, my suggestion is to notice that these labels are trying to carry an explanation of the feelings and experiences you have, and on that basis, they attempt to classify those experiences in a way that might suggest a useful treatment. Clinical experience generally suggests that people who are generally functional enough to communicate and handle their lives can be treated by some extremely simple techniques, such as dietary changes that eliminate everything to which there is an allergic, or micro-allergic response. "The Pulse Test" by Arthur Coca MD is an excellent resource in this regard. The purpose is to remove unnecessary stressors. That tends to make life more comfortable. At the same time, vitamins and minerals, including trace elements, usually help strengthen one's ability to ignore minor irritations, again making things a bit more comfortable. At the extreme end of this approach there are "antipsychotic drugs" which operate by numbing you, but they don't do much for what you experience, and I  don't recommend them - at least not until that's the only remaining option.

The psycho-spiritual view: You seem to have internalized conflictive influences of some type. At this level, it makes little difference from whence they have come. They remain because perhaps you have opened yourself to them, or perhaps you were attacked and worn down by them. In either case the result is that these forces stick to your personal definitions of the situation in which you exist, and your definition of self, usually referenced back to the situation. When our ability to think includes a bunch of external impulses, it gets fuzzy and feels like it's out of control. At the same time, in the case that these intrusions carry the ability to refer to themselves constructively, they can propagate, rather like a computer virus, until their presence becomes self limiting. The sensation is of being "un-grounded" in the sense of not having a stable reference point against which to compare this kind of internal activity. That makes it difficult to separate the dream and reality (my interpretation of the "it's a cat" conflict).

This situation reminds me of the problem that many hippies used to get when they would overdose on a strong psychedelic. They would break free from their everyday ideas, which was their initial purpose, but then they would lack knowledge of how to reset their internal systems so as to recover groundedness. My guess (and admittedly it is a guess) is that this is at least a substantial part of your problem.

To recover groundedness should allow you to filter out the irrational from the rational in the sense of what parts of your internal experiences relate well to the everyday world, and what parts seem to be floating by, but without a direct material basis to anchor them. This leads to eventual rejection of the unsupported stuff and a recovery of a sense of solidity. (Again, this is based on my interpretation, and I might be missing the point. If so, I apologize.)

My usual suggestion to recover groundedness is to seek identification with the initial instant of creation, so that you can recognize that your existence emerged from voidness through the action of an infinite creative potentiality. That gives you a refuge - "I am No-Thing and No-Body" is the essential idea. Not being a "thing" you are ruled by matter. Not being a "body" you are free of bodily impositions. As emptiness your nature is the same potential creativity as that from which the rest of the universe emerged. This is a state logically prior to the forces that torment you. It cannot be reached by thought, which is what blocks most of us from going there to look, but your mind is already blanked out (assuming that I interpreted your post correctly), so it should be possible for you to settle into a posture of oneness with the initial voidness, and thus with the initial creative event. That brings you into accord with the Creator.

Once things can be paused while you literally are re-creating yourself, you will be able to notice what the various hooks and cues are that bring back the bothersome experiences. They will be of three general sorts, (a) a tendency to sense activities negatively, so that actions are resented, destructive or unpleasant; (b) a tendency toward non-logical associations that lead to states of delusion or confusion; (c) a sense of rejection, danger, hatred and rage by which the world seems to be alienated. As you sense each connection arising, it can be avoided by simply refusing to go there next time. Instead, (a) act joyfully because you are re-creating your own self; (b) be clear and logical, accepting nothing that is uncertain, or which does not arise from cause and effect linkages based on your own causal activities; (c) recognize that even the most deadly and hostile forces are also manifestations of the Creator, and thus are ultimately in total accord, so your position can eventually be reduced to one of misunderstod love.

This is not a "cure" - sorry. It is a strategy that is usually effective for druggies who complain of somewhat similar problems, and who still have a high degree of self control. Also, it is not an overnight solution, but a growth process.

I hope this is helps-
PUL
dave

Dave, while I can appreciate that you are trying to help DK in the best possible way that you know how, I think you are still missing the point.  She has been the clinical route.  You sound just like I did a year ago, although I wasn't that technical.  I'm a Registerd Nurse, have a Bachelor's in Psychology, and am a heavily trained working hypnotherapist.  While I know that the things DK is saying would be diagnosed as being Schizophrenia in a clinical setting, I also know that there is more here than what appears at first glance.  She is talking about real abduction experiences by real ET's.  She has Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and is looking for some reassurance that her torture will not continue into the afterlife.

Do I believe in ET's?  I didn't.  Sure, I believed that they most likely existed light years away.  But, there is enough anecdotal evidence and enough emotionally stable people claiming these abduction experiences to change my mind.  Not to mention the close encounter of the third kind I had at the Monroe Institute that sent my hyper critical left brain spinning.  So, logically speaking, if human behavior is any kind of measuring stick, it would follow that, just as on earth, there are good ET's and there are bad ET's.  We think nothing of capturing, torturing, breeding, and genetically manipulating supposedly "inferior" animals in the name of science and human progress.  Why would highly intelligent beings from other galaxies, solar systems, and possibly universes be any different?  Intelligence does not always lead to a high moral standard.

I came here to discuss Moen's books with people familiar with them.  I didn't realize that I would land in the middle of a big controversy.  But, I care deeply about Dark Knight, and I care that people treat her with the dignity that she deserves.  And, I would like to help at least one person, if not more, save themselves from the same narrow minded and self-important mistakes that I made because I absurdly thought I knew it all.   :)

Now, can anyone share their knowledge or experiences of the afterlife in a way that will be beneficial to Dark Knight and other people like her that she is currently trying to help?  If you notice in her post, that is what she is asking about.  The rest is an explanation of why she is asking...not asking for pointers on how she can cure herself or think her way out of abductions that would appear to be beyond her control at this point.

Tempestinateapot,

Quote from Tempestinateapot:
"I know, because I put her through the same thing over a year ago, got my ego smacked down by those with more knowledge, and had to make a lot of apologies. Like I said, I usually learn the hard way."  

Dear, I'm sorry but it seems to me that you still haven't learned that lesson.

PUL, Stacy

Ah, well, I never claim to be perfect.  I fail to see how your post is helpful to Dark Knight, which is what this thread is about.

Tempestinateapot,

This thread stopped being about Dark Knight some time ago. Perhaps we can get her back with gentle persuasion and compassion. We may not be able to give her the answers she needs right away but at least we can offer her a safe harbor.

My main point is this: The underlining current of hostility has to stop, it is throwing the PUL created by love on this board way off. I am in no way saying that it is your fault and I apoligize if I made you feel that way. I can feel the hostillity building up here and I had to say something to bring it up. It is the white elephant in the room. Everybody sees it yet nothing is said about it. Well I had to say something. I am sorry if I made you feel bad, that was not at all my intent.

I only wanted to make you think. PUL Stacy

Thanks, Stacy.  I don't feel bad.  And, I certainly don't feel hostile.  I'm hoping people will expand their minds to take in some knowledge that they might not be aware of.  And, pure unconditional love consists of allowing everyone their expression, even at the expense of peace.  PUL means that everything is ok, just as it is.  IMO, PUL does not mean that the emotion of human love must be maintained at all costs.  As a friend of mine likes to say, if everyone were to believe exactly the same thing, and express it in exactly the same way...this world would be milk toast, and as fun as watching paint peel.   :)

Tempestinateapot,

Thank you for accepting my apology so graciously. I must have misread you.

You say: "IMO, PUL does not mean that the emotion of human love must be maintained at all costs." I am unclear as to your meaning, care to elaborate?

I like what your friend said: "As a friend of mine likes to say, if everyone were to believe exactly the same thing, and express it in exactly the same way...this world would be milk toast, and as fun as watching paint peel." I coundn't agree more!

Happy Journeys. PUL Stacy

Quote:

You say: "IMO, PUL does not mean that the emotion of human love must be maintained at all costs." I am unclear as to your meaning, care to elaborate?

Uh boy, this gets really complicated.  Human love is an illusion.  It is based on an ego drive, and is conditional.  I will love you if you love me.  Love is withheld when someone doesn't get what they want.  It can be really subtle, unconscious, and appear to be unconditional love, when in truth, it's not.  It's temporary, and easily changes.  It's what most people feel when they talk about love.  Even spiritual people.  It's very seductive, and I don't mean in a sexual way.  It draws you in, gets you hooked, and then can be taken away in a moment when someone doesn't act in a way that we think is appropriate.

I would rather use the words "unconditional acceptance" when talking about the Source/God.  It never changes, it never judges.  It just Is.  Agape is a better word than love, if you have to use that word.  Humans, in this plane of existence, are really not completely capable of this.  Our love is always faulty and conditional, even if we don't think it is.  There is always a selfish motive lurking in there.  Even if you give all your money away, live in service to others, you still get the selfish payback of being able to feel good about yourself.  The unconditional love of Source accepts everything and anything.  Even evil.  No judgement, no taking away of Agape for any reason.

Hi Tempest-
My point is not that there is a definite psychological issue but that this type of inquiry is one of the approaches to dealing with such things. I don't specifically see that it makes any difference whether DK was the victomof a car wreck, being kidnapped by ET or whatever. The result is that the forces that remain are conflicted and she feels this as discomfort. You can call it PTSD if it makes you feel better. That misses the point that these are not wholly unusual experiences, but rather that what DK is feeling appears to be her own mental and psychic energies being caught up in a confusion that turns them back upon her. People who have problems with kundalini, with misguided drug-and-yoga sessions or simply a massive overdoes of mind altering chemicals tend to have somewhat similar (not necessarily identical) experiences. That means that at the far end of the spectrum, the usual psychotropic medications are available, and, as I said before, they do little but numb the mind.

The ultimate recourse for relief from internal confusion, such as BSTs, which is essentially what is happening here, although is a massive and overwhelming manner, is to find some way to own and control the issue. As a psychologist you recognize that affective forces are the core of primary process, which is where DKs issues rside. As an hypnotherapist you also know that the solution to such issues is to regress to a level below the affective basis of the issues in question, and there to evoke and decathect them.

That means that a universally useful approach to therapy is to regress to the point of our Creation, however you define it, and from there perform a turning about in attitudes by which a new direction can be taken that interferes with the previous behaviors. This is a standard B-Mod technique, although rarely in this context, and it is also the essential means by which death and rebirth release us.

I appreciate your ceriticism, but there is no generic approach that is more effective than some type of psychic rebirthing - which you hopefully can now recognize as being the core of hypnoanalytic and past life strategies for recovery from virtually everything that plagues us. There are lots of other derivative methods, of course, but regression to the point of Creation is the essential core of all of them. Or, if you want a more churchy expression, we must locate the point of contact with God, the "higher self", and then return to the world in a manner different from that we previously had. This, for example, is the process of death and rebirth.

With respect to "how much relief", the question is the degree of affective attachment that DK has to her definitions of situation and of self. These are the karmic limitations that define the degree of relief that we can experience between lifetimes. If you'd like to look into that idea a bit more, undergo a past life regression and notice how each lifetime has advanced you, but only to the degree that you were able to relase attachments and turn about in the seat of your consciousness to adopt a new lifestyle.

PUL
dave

Tempestinateapot,

I must respectfuly disagree with you here. I won't elaborate more because I don't want to impose my beliefs on you. We are equally intitled to our own belief system and thats the way it should be.

PUL, Stacy

Loving is indeed "selfish" because caring for other people improves the condition of yourself and encourages them to do likewise. ;D  How is that a bad thing?

On the other hand, I would never recommend that somebody constantly look for fault in somebody as that may overpower perception of what is good about them.

Food for Heart,
Stevie

Hi,
I have here in short what I have got personally about the afterlife (still living, so it might be totally different, but maybe not). Maybe Dark Knight and Patty find something good and trustworthy in it; you could also read some of my old posts and of course the many interesting others here.

I started to explore with the system of RA Monroe, TMI, and Bruce, and that's what I more or less use still, enriched of course with personal experiences. I think a spiritual/belief system colors the experiences in explorations, but probably there is something behind it, only seen through different glasses. I must admit, I have no absolute proof whether this is true, but hints.

The "near" physical area:
I've found people in scenes which looked just like the physical, but then I noticed other people move through them. An elderly woman who I contacted thought it was because she couldn't perceive very good because of her age and interpreted it as hallucinations, she wasn't aware that she hadn't a physical body anymore.
Other people seem to be aware of that but still sticking around the physical.
Again others are not really "in" the physical, but very focused on it, as if they would watch tv from a distance.
Also I saw sometimes the physical with many colored streams and fluctuating rays, just like lsd consumers tell frequently, showing connections and activities of many kinds.
I had also two "classic" OBEs, totally unaware of my physical body, but my surrounding looked nearly exactly like the physical (my bedroom), though it wasn't as solid as physical matter, and the light was slightly different.
When I once was on a "higher level" (space is not really space, but we need words and concepts, you know) I asked what happens when someone dies in the physical. I then headed down very fastly, and in front of me were white light spheres, moving zic-zac over a city, and came to person who obviously had just died and made a puzzled impression to me, and then one of the light spheres caught his attraction, he went in and the sphere moved away abpruptly.

Focus 23:
To me this appears as the area of thought-form duplicates of physical surroundings of people, who have physically died, but are not aware of it. Mostly the inhabitats live in their own bubbles, but it may be that there are also interactions between some people who share a personal area. These little personal worlds can be very different: Often I saw old people in their appartments, watching tv, sitting in a rockin chair or something, some waiting that finally someone would come visit them, but no one comes. Mostly it needs only one little spark to break the routine of their dwelling there, you know, "just a little trip, it's not far, you can go back anytime if you like". Others are in shock, frozen in the moment of their death, or having replays of it. Some there might be also not entire persons, but aspects.
In a place which felt like to be near this area I came across a lawn, or a park, where people seem to have some fun with sex games.

The "Belief System Territories":
Imagine all beliefs regarding the afterlife, all is there. In difference to Focus 27 with "The Park", the territories there have in common, and I felt it several times, a very rigid framework of mind. There are various places: Religious communities, cults, very simple environments like a desert, but also places in which the daily routine work seems like a religion to them. Also I came across political communities who continue to fight for their ideas, and also a sort of technical science-fiction place, as well as a motorcycle gang world.

The Belief Systems near Focus 27:
A specialty to me are the places which, in my navigation system (not really) are relatively "high", near Focus 27. I saw a few who were absolutely impressive, heavenly places. At least one of this was a bit open to Focus 27 and has a sort of cooperation with some shiny folks of F27, it was a group of people who obviously developed one of the big religions further, it was about the future, from my view. Other places were absolutely beautiful, but again, there were very rigid rules of living. They could see me in two systems (as it seems their awareness span is greater than in the lower regions of the BST), and they were not overly cheerful to see me there, cause I was not really singing their song of purity and everytime worshipping some entities.

Between the BST and Focus 27:
Located there as far as I could recognize, there were big white glowing foggy figures. They appeared to be very experienced in human life and go to, or have come from, their last physical existence.

Focus 27: A place for people who are open enough, have creative power, who like beauty of people and places, are curious about who and what they are, who are able to feel love. Who have a minimum of trust in love, being loved of something greater than of an individual human being, who have a desire to go home, and trust enough that they can. It sounds maybe like "Oh, all this hoo-hoo  good and precious and genius-like people", but I have the impression you don't have to be glorious to go to F 27, only that little light is enough.
There is a entry area, with the park, many facilities of all kind, hospitals, rest and recreation, restaurants etc... Also, private places with no limitation of space. Personal guidance and councelling, schools of many kinds. Then areas for special communities or individuals with special tasks, mostly on the way to a greater understanding of it all, leaving soon the more or less earth-style world of space, time and form.
There are also possibilities of traveling to other "levels", "down", or "up".

The higher self:
I always see myself as part of something greater, without I couldn't exist. Most often called "higher self" or similar terms. I cannot really say where this is in the Focus Level terminology. It is easier to contact it the more familiar one is with different consciousness states/"places". But, on the other hand, it is not required to have a particular system at hand to reach it. I find it the easiest to come closer to my higher self in Focus 15, Focus 21, and Focus 27, as well as what I guess must be Focus 33/34.

Focus 21:
I experienced this place as if energies are transformed. As if it is a gigantic transmitter station for high energy being transformed to other, more dense energies. As well I found there a way to travel to other worlds using tunnels. There is also coming foreign-feeling influences from somewhere to here. I saw strange creatures there. As well as keeping our etheric (or so) bodies in shape. There is the entrance and the border for incarnations. It seems not really a place to stay longer for an average human being, but it is interesting nonetheless. I had my first higher self experience there.

Focus 15:
A place which feels still, quiet, and personal. I find good conditions to move back from there in earlier times of my life, as well as to earlier lives, I had my first glimpse on what felt like another life of mine there. There is a library with a librarian, he is somehow connected to me.

The database:
There seems to be a database accessable which has, well, much information in it. I see it as a regular field of glowing spheres, which re-arranges, or my position in it is re-arranged when I ask for a specific info, then one or more spheres are blinking and I can go to them and have a look, sometimes it' like tv, sometimes I'm in it, sometimes only shades of something, or way too fast scenes. But I have gotten some infos through it that have been verified.

Focus 33/34:
I had some experiences there, some were, like suggested, "the Gathering"-style, with objects which could have been spaceships, or absolute foreign beings, one gave me to understand (or I interpreted so) that it is a probe of a planets' surface which is one living entity. Another object had entities in it. But also, sometimes I saw a great cluster of something like soap-bubbles, which was a way to view my higher self, and there were others similar like it. As well sometimes it is a plain white world, or maybe with fog, the impression was that there were concepts and ideas, that were ready to be channeled downwards to be manifested.


I expect when I die I will go into the light, which is my higher self, or members of it. Maybe I will have some time relaxing in a sort of earth-like environment in F27, but maybe I will melt back into my higher self. I had some experiences where I felt very much expanded to all sides, and connected to everything. It is not really to describe, I was still an "I", but also everywhere, somehow. So I expect it will be something of this kind what awaits me, but I'm not sure, at least this is what I'm thinking about.

Oh yes, what Bruce and others here often say, love is a sort of fuel for everything good. It is not easy to define though, but in my experience it can be like a flow of fresh energy, makes you see, makes you wide, serene and fully awake; it can be small (but powerful) and subtle like somehow being touched by a flower or an insect. Or it's a smile and you ask yourself "How comes that one smile makes me so happy?"
Everyone is free to give it another name, or definition, or say "Duh, how boring", but it is the force that glues you and the world mentally together, so I'd rather stick with it. As to whether it's real or not, I also don't know in which way my computer keyboard is real or not. It's not about "truth" or "reality", but sufficent evidence.

Spooky

Fascinating post, Spooky. Thank you so much. This really inspires me to do some exploring and try to identify some of the places I find myself in. Most of the time I really don't have a clue, but I have not had your persistence. You inspire me.

Dave, I also appreciate your comments about rebirth. I so completely agree with you about searching out the sources of our motivations, perceptions and emotions. I do believe that by doing this we can redraw a new map of understanding of our world and our reality.

Regarding love...well, love feels good, whatever the source or the reason. Each of us has love and happiness at our source, which is all that really matters. How we share that is our own decision, and the results will quickly tell us if we are correct in our assumptions about how we share it.

so much love to you all my heart is bursting....each of you is a treasure without measure in this world          blink

I don't think DK is going to post, because no one seems to be able to answer her question.  I talked to her.  Spooky came the closest, but unfortunately, I don't think DK is familiar with the focus levels, so it looks a little confusing.  I enjoyed reading your experiences, thanks, but then, I understand what you are talking about.  

So, everyone might as well derail the thread all you want.   :)  

I don't want to get into a battle of beliefs here, because that ends up in circles with no one listening to anyone else.  But, I would like to address this quote with something that is merely called my opinion.  And, please note that I am using the universal "you", this is not directed at any one person:  
Quote:

I would never recommend that somebody constantly look for fault in somebody as that may overpower perception of what is good about them.

The point is to accept people for what they are in this moment.  Looking for faults in others, and most importantly, yourself, is an excellent way to progress.  When you see a fault in another, that is almost always a reflection of your own faults.  The things that irk us the most, are usually the things we need to work on the most.  Hiding your head in the sand and seeing only the goodness in others is a very, very temporary fix.  It just doesn't last.  As soon as they irk you to the point that you can't stand it any longer, something is bound to blow.  If it doesn't, you are most likely a repressed person, and have a whole other set of issues.  

The goal is to first find the fault in yourself.  Become aware, stare it in the face, feel the humiliation that you aren't as good as you think.  It's like walking through fire.  When you come out the other side, you are able to laugh at yourself and see just how silly your ego really is.  Look at other people's faults, including mine.  They can be a good indicator of what it is you still need to work on.  Recognize that no one is perfect.  No one can really even stand up to the measure of being "good".  And, please don't tell me about Mother Theresa.  You, nor anyone else, actually knows what was in her head.  My guess (and this is only a guess) is that she knew her faults and accepted them in herself and others.  Because, that is the final goal.  Look the bad stuff in the face, accept it, then let go of the need to judge it.  Recognize that everyone and everything is perfect, just as it is.  No judgement, just pure unconditional acceptance....that's the real love.  And, it's the only one that lasts.

I'd also like to clear something up.  I am not a psychologist.  I have a degree.  Not a big deal.  It doesn't mean anything.  Anything of importance I've learned has been through the hard knocks in life.  And, it doesn't take education or intelligence to do that.  It takes a willingness to look at things as they really are, and not some fancy dream of what they should be.  Because there is nothing they "should" be.  PUL = Unconditional Acceptance.

Somewhere in the back of my mind is a tag line from a song that goes, "You are God and I am God and we're all God together ..." - no idea where it came from. But this sems to be the core of the issue. As Tempest said, Spooky seems to be closest to the pure bliss of being God.

For DK, I feel truly regretful that there is so little that we can offer. The technique I outlined works, I used it, and still use it. In fact I use it almost daily in my clinic. But it many cases, as with DK, is like brain surgery with a butter knife.

Tempest - forgive my bluntness, but you took the degree, own it. You are a psychologist at the bachelor's level. It will make you a damn sight better hypnotherapist than people who aren't. That's not false pride, it's simple application of what you understand, and you merit respect for your accomplishment. That includes your own self respect.

That said, I suggest to you that the problem is that we perpetually insist on seeing problems, and attaching to individuating factors that bind us into them. Your post suggests that this is a bad idea. I totaly agree. Returning to Center for repeated groundings is the ultimate recourse, but perhaps someone like you will get sufficiently motivated to come up with a better approach. In the end, there is really nothing wrong. We are at odds with circumstances through ignorance of our own true nature, that we are ultimately free. I wish you well in your work in this area.

PUL
d

Quote:

As Tempest said, Spooky seems to be closest to the pure bliss of being God.

No, I said Spooky was closest to actually offering some real help to DK.  As to being the closest to the bliss of being God, it's not a competition.  There is no one who is closer or less close.  We are all equal when it comes to being close to God.  Some have just figured out how to recognize it better.  And, transcendental experiences, or even just phasing experineces to the different focus levels doesn't make one closer to God.  I know plenty of people who are expert OBE'ers who would actually be classified as atheists.  It's a universal experience, and doesn't require any kind of belief whatsoever.

As to my degrees, and I have several, they have nothing to do with self-esteem.  I only bring them up if it's pertinent to the subject.  From what I've seen, a lot of highly educated people are just searching to find a way to make themselves feel better and worthy.  Or, they use their education as a way to try to impress others and stroke their own ego.  So, I'm neither impressed with myself nor with anyone else with higher education.  There isn't a single person on this planet who is better than any other.  All are equal in the eyes of the Source.  And, all will eventually become enlightened.  A college degree doesn't get you there.  It's kind of funny that Dave would recommend I go see a past life regressionist.  That's what I specialize in.   :)  What makes me a good hypnotherapist is that I recognize me in every one of my clients, and honor that wherever they are in their awareness, they are my equal on a soul level.

Tempestinateapot:

Quote:

I don't think DK is going to post, because no one seems to be able to answer her question.

Well seeing my first suggestion was ignored - my second suggestion would be drug rehabilitation as Dave pointed out; this experience is common for people on hardcore drugs. ie drugland in the lower astral.

btw me thinks DK is Ralph Buskey, i might be wrong, but either way time to take responsibility for your own life.  Either rehab or regression as Dave suggested would take DK back to the cause.  I am not experienced in this area of past trauma but I think it cannot be solved on the internet as it ends up been a 'game play'.  This adds to the fire which some might delight in and causes a cycle of repetition.

The thing about drug rehabilitation is that there are different ways to do it, and it doesn't always last for very long. There is often "shaming" involved in the process, and even after "recovery".

I believe that some of us, for whatever reasons, have great difficulty in valuing ourselves, truly valuing ourselves enough to take the exquisite care of our bodies that we need in order to function well. Our minds and bodies are connected so it is such a complex issue.

And then, there can be full "recovery" which lasts a week or ten years (as in my own example), but not forever. Life is long, sometimes tedious and difficult, and true love and support difficult to recognize.

But the internal work can be done in many ways. I am finding great success on my path right now, which includes an antidepressant that, thankfully, has minimal side effects for me. The drugs my doctor has prescribed to wean me off of my "crutches" are a temporary measure for me.  I should not need them forever as my health improves, and as my heart and mind clear.  I was not on "hard drugs" but believe me, a combination of too many "soft ones" is just as harmful.

I have many meditation tapes which I am using for reinforcement, to help me to stay on track with my commitment to myself.  I also have family support.  My boyfriend is mulling things over, but I know he will come on board eventually. Meanwhile, I find myself living life, fulfilling my responsibilities, and feeling happier.

I know that some people have much harsher lives and problems than I do. But "rehab" is not for everyone. Finding peace and self-understanding, and discovering self-care that works is a process which cannot be described in terms of "facing up" because it is not about disciipline. It is about finding freedom from what separates you from a better self-understanding and true self-love.

I do not speak from pride when I say these things but from deep humility. Treasure these moments, each of you, for they may be your last, this time around.

much love, blink

Greetings,

It's unfortunate that DK was unable to stay longer and find, if not her answers, at least the intensity of the concern for her that so many
are showing in their responses to her plight. Perhaps she has come back without signing in.
We don't always  know if our 'answers' will affect the original poster, but you all have shown a deep level of caring that is most inspiring. Thank you.

Bets  

Sorry, Betson, you are a very kind person, but I see a very different take on what's happening here.  Two facts....I don't know who "Ralph Buskey" is, but it's absolutely not DK.  She is female.  Second fact, she is not using illegal drugs and does not need rehab.  What I see happening here (for what it's worth), is that several people who claim to profess unconditional love are doing anything but that.  You (the universal "you", you can decide if what I'm saying fits you or ignore it) didn't listen to what DK was asking.  You made assumptions based not only on your own belief system, but assumptions that had nothing to do with her problems.  And, while it may seem like it, I'm not sitting in judgment regarding anyone else's actions.  I'm calling it like I see it, because I recognize it.  I've done the same ego thing many times, and will probably continue to do so as I slowly and painfully break down the ego that drives us to not listen to others, and be gleeful in showing them how wrong they are and how right we are.  And, yes, I'm doing it now.  The difference is that I recognize I'm doing it and many of you don't see it in yourselves.  You think that by adding PUL at the end of your post you can judge other people and that makes it ok.  Nice words and PUL just don't mask a judgement when that is what it actually is.  Although I disagree with what some said, I actually respect them more when they just say what they think and don't then try to rise above others by pretending to love when they are just talking to hear and verify their own belief system.

Dark Knight has read all of this.  She won't be posting or coming back here again because of the responses.   I know some of you say good riddance and some are genuinely sorry.  It is what it is.  Perhaps good will come of it by helping some to break out of their self-imposed boxes and open up to other possibilities.  Regardless, if someone wants to get me banned because I'm disrupting the love vibe here, I'm ok with that.  

Hi Tempest-
I'm interested in what you envision as a solution.

There is obviously no good to come from saying "Oh poor thing, Boohoo." Aside from hypocrisy, it accomplishes nothing except to reward people for feeling bad.

As I see it, there is no "fix it" approach that fits, because we're all different. There's no "understand it my way" solution for the same reason. It has to be a "live and grow" approach, because only that can be self-generated. The limits to our ability to "live and grow" (as Buddhism has long pointed out) are the degrees of attachment to maladaptive elements of our situation. And to get to that, we have to do our own analysis, and then start discarding the useless attachments. Hence the essential paradigm, "Go to Center, Change Relationships, Return to Life".

We could look at some of the formal systems, Ashtanga Yoga, 8-Fold Path, and the individual yogas etc. But these are simply abstractions that lead to the same act of change, to get loose of the present moment, make whatever changes we can, and then return to live some more. Working with past lives, you have seen this, although you might not have isolated it into so many terms. What better can be offered? I'm really interested.

dave

Quote:

this experience is common for people on hardcore drugs.

Wow!  That was a judgement if there ever was one.  Yes, it does happen to some who have used drugs and alcohol.  But, it also happens to people who appear to be completely innocent.  And, it's not just a hallucination because of the drugs.  What they seem to do is open a person to the astral without any defense mechanisms, without any control.  So, they land in a lower plane and are attacked without protection.  

So, I'm guessing that the general belief of those I've seen so far on this forum believe that people deserve to be attacked?  If that were true, everyone should be attacked.  Because, there isn't a person here, or anywhere for that matter that is innocent and pure.  False assumptions based on false belief systems.  

Dave, I actually agree with your last post.  The solution is different for each person, and, in the long run, really has to be worked out by themselves.  I'm someone who thinks that the solution is to be proactive in your own healing.  

DK and I don't agree on a lot of things.  But, she has taught me a lot.  After insulting her by telling her she needs medication and love and light will solve all her problems, I eventually learned that while those can be helpful, they aren't always the solution.  Staying in the "poor me" mode doesn't get you very far very fast, but it's a reality that those who would wish to help have to be ready to deal with.  What DK has taught me is that rather than "telling" someone what they "need" to do to solve their problems, is to listen, show support by listening.  Then, try to understand from their perspective, rather than jumping in with solutions.  Try to clarify what they are saying by asking questions.  Leave off the moral and belief system stuff.  Become their friend in these ways.  Once this very damaged person feels that you care, are willing to listen to them without judgement, then you can offer advice based on what you know.  But, always with the understanding that you might be wrong.  Tentativness is important.  When they begin to understand that they may have some part in what's happening to them, empower them.  Don't look down on them and say you know what's wrong and they need to do this, this, and this.  Empower them by explaining what you know of karma, past lilves, the choices we make affect us whether we recognize it or not.  In a case like this, admit that you aren't expert in what's going on and probably can't even begin to imagine what it's like.  Refer them to someone who is, if you know of someone.  

I'm not an expert in possession or ET abduction.  I have no personal experience with either.  But, I do know what happens after we die, and how we can take control of that.  So, that is what I, personally, would offer.  That is what I was hoping some of you would offer her.  You can't fix what's happening to her now.  But, you do have the ability to give her hope.  Even if it's just hope that this will end.  I could go into more detail, but I've already probably angered enough people for one day.   :)  Now, you know why I picked my name.

You know what, Tempest.....you really do seem to be a tempest in a teapot!  

Attack mode if I've ever seen one.....

Good luck to you but I'm out of here.

Your vibes are giving me a headache I simply choose not to have.  

I don't feel any kindness from you, Tempest, and I'm very surprised you give anyone therapy.

Do you really know so much about everyone and everything?

Wow, how amazing you are.

Good luck to you...

bye now, and yes, wishing you love anyway, blink  :)

Yes, and what you said was not an attack?  At least I'm honest.  Yes, I do know a lot about certain things.  Mainly the things I've made mistakes about and have had the courage to see what I've done, and at least try to correct them.  But, definitely not always able.  I said I don't claim to be perfect.  Whether you feel any kindness from me or not or believe I have ever helped anyone is rather irrelevant since you've never met me.  I could say I don't feel any kindness from you, but that's just a pissing match, and not helpful for anyone.  Looking at problems and working them out is helpful.  And, they are usually painful because they are a problem.  If everything was roses and buttercups, we wouldn't be here on Mother Earth.

Tempest, I'm quite familiar with people who are operating from the mind and not the heart. It is easy to feel it.

It is easy to see when they are deliberately picking people apart and attacking a forum on which they have not spent significant time and in which they are making assumptions which are completely incorrect about the people who spend much time and energy helping each other and themselves.

I consider your endless tirades here abusive. Period. That is why I was this blunt with you, which is really pretty atypical for me.

done now....b

I thought you were leaving?  Well, it's nice to see you back.  Seriously, I mean that.  I never enjoy seeing people leave in a huff and not work out their differences.  I do have a question.  It's in regards to fairness.  Is it ok for you to make a judgement about me based on a few posts, but I can't make judgements about things I see in a few posts because I haven't been here long enough?  I would make a suggestion, that I don't think you will take in the right way, but that's ok.  Don't be so sure about what is in another's heart and where they are operating from.  Particularly when you don't know them, and are basing your assessment on intuition, which we all know (or should) isn't always accurate.  We are working through human filters here.  And, I haven't met an intuitive yet that gets it right 100%.

Hi all, and mainly to Patty and Dark Knight,

from all what I have experienced and read, the "pull" of the higher self, or the source, you know that which is greater than us in the physical but of which we are a part, is quite strong. Strong enough to overcome many terrible experiences. However, if you believe there is truth in the reports of retrievals, and RAMs and Bruce's writings, there can be causes that hinder being pulled back home. But my turn is, simply the awareness of this is diminishing greatly the probability that one gets stuck (wherever). This awareness will keep the consciousness of the own wishes, desires and needs awake rather than finding oneself in a kind of hell and accepting this. So, 1. the awareness that everyone has the right and the possibility to go to his/her true home and of the causes that might hinder this, 2. the existence and presence of own wishes, needs and desires, and 3. the trust
and the feeling of self-worthyness, to deserve to go to join with your cosmic family is, in my opinion, a very good set to almost guarantee a good afterlife.

------------------------------------------------

After this, well, statement, something different. I had this alien issue on my mind and went with it in meditation thrice. I had what seemed to be a mix of my questions and considerations, answers from my helpers and what RAM maybe would call "unsorted rotes":
 >>>I see this line, a bundle of lines, going down to earth, a person, the bundle is fraying out at the end, too much, no good. The other side of the line...there should be...wait, I remember; sometimes it looks like soap bubbles, but there are other big things looking like discs with something on it like buildings; like a space ship. Am I confusing two levels? Or is it the same level but they, "big I s" or how to call them, appear actually that differently?
  These aliens...they have no bodies, but...they want some? It's not that direct...it's more there are these apparations, they are not "true" entities, what is it...there are people in the BSTs, people in the physical, and there are these foreign influences through the gates of Focus 21; ah, actually there are alien influences, but not that "real"; from this three sources, aligned, working together, there are forms created; the aliens; they are semi-souled, as they are connected to those three sources/their members, or, maybe they have even split of aspects from their creators; it looks like this forms have tubes extending from them to their sources. What would they do to control physical bodies? They seem to have to somehow smuggle aspects into a personality; find gaps, or a similar structure where these aspects could be melted into. What can be done...oh, this is easy, at least from here; I can...blast them off, how works it...a energy similar used for retrievals, a sort of "awakener". Oh I don't have to do it this way; their connection can be cut and they vanish; this could also be meaning not...accept them, or their reality, or the, how to say, to reject the influences, the structurizing ideas-energy from these sources, the BSTs, the foreign energies from F21 and the everywhere floating certain physical human informations.   Dark Knight told of the two groups...this can be used; in fact it is very easy for the unaffected aliens to detect the infected ones, when they only watch what is happening around the earth; every human who is insulted by them can, additionally, send them a message, a rote and IDing who insulted them so the intruders could be arrested by the good aliens; these exist as well through the three sources, but there is another source here, special helpers from...I am around F21 it seems, helpers from far away from here like it seems; maybe F27 or beyond, they somehow blend in into these good alien forms.
  Again, the three sources where the aliens emerge from. Oh they are sensitive to open people, to people who in some way...are willing to hear, or accept or consider...them, or what they want to get through to them. I am told I too would be able to perceive them under some conditions, if I want; no, I'm not really inclined, or only after a helper of mine would appear, then maybe; I sense it is the second time now they build this half circle around/behind me, they're there; I suddenly sense, there is something really posionous about this matter...I feel I lose more and more control, fears are arising, I must do something; thinking of PUL and send it out; imagining me to be like air; then...of Buddha...the Buddha realm, or at least what I call this, a wooden flute and it's tones; bamboo and a little brook; what an incredible relief. The power of simplicity; clarity. This is a true grounding...but though, no physical ground; I am centered but open.<<<


Spooky

I Am That I Am

I am that I am, I move upon the face of the waters, upon the Earth and within the heavens of the great cosmic universe.  My throne is the heart of the sun through which I manifest my power and give life and light unto my creations.  I am the beginning and the end.  I live in the hearts of all men and can be plucked as a ripe fruit to give knowledge and understanding to the children of my breath.  I am in the wind and rain, in the fire and the frost and all nature is my house wherein I dwell.  Come forth ye reapers and gather in the harvest of my knowledge that the sickness of men may be healed and they may turn again towards my loving embrace.
*****************
"And that's all that I yam,
I'm Popeye the sailor man..."

Why is it that people think that quoting poetry at someone is more
than a waste of time - if not outright dangerous???
I mean, OK... this individual is coming with problems that neither you,
nor anyone else here, is qualified to deal with. She needs to see a
shrink ASAP, IMHO. So why throw more weirdness at "Dark Knight"?
That's the LAST thing she needs right now. ("Aliens have invaded my
brain and are communicating with me?" This girl needs to RUN, not walk to her nearest mental hygiene clinic...)
Your approach seems to me, like trying to put out a fire by throwing kerosene on it, Augie. Might you have tipped THIS one over the edge? (Just HOW MANY straws does it take, to break a camel's back..?)

B-man

P.S. I see you believe in the traditional "Heaven/Hell" scenario, Augie
(presumably with NO oblivion option either.)
Tell me something. You accuse Dude of spouting "uneducated crap about the Bible." (Actually, it is Literalist, Tertullian-style Christianity - in both the Catholic and Protestant forms - which is "uneducated crap", but never mind that.) What I want to know is, who told you that Literalist Christianity is true?
God himself? Did he pay you a visit from on high, and tell you?
Or did your MOTHER tell you? (How do you know she is such an
infallible paragon of wisdom?)
Or was it the thick-skulled, money grubbing, frock-wearing goon you
call "Pastor" at church who told you?
And since when was FEAR (an emotion fit for DOGS, not humans) the basis of ANY king of wisdom, outside of the Bible (that passage is most likely a FORGERY, along with about 75-90% of the rest of the Bible, BTW.)
Enlighten me, please..!

B-man

Patty,

I can't resist the temptation to come out of my self-imposed exile from this site for this one post.   I love your creative handle.  In my view, you are just about the only poster who is displaying authentic humanity and true humility in your response to DK's desperate need and the formulaic New Age dogmas that have been offered as a substitute for truly practical caring and good listening skills.  These inept detours from the vital issues are a classic illustration of what happens when a New Age ghetto mentality prompts posters to indignantly refuse to explore the evidence for the other side of key spiritual issues (e g. psychiatrist Scott Peck's 2 books on evil and Malachi Martin's stunning case histories in "Hostage to the Devil").  

I have taken the trouble to contact DK by E-mail and am most impressed with her intellect, her sincerity, her grasp of the true nature of her plight, and the steps she has taken to address her problem.   She doesn't need metaphysical speculation or New Age psychobabble; she needs friendship combined with persistent prayer support until she is released from her oppressive burden.   I intend to stay in touch with her and offer her that persistent prayer support throughout her ordeal.   No, Caryn, SHE is NOT Ralph Buskey in disguise.

Don

I too will pray for DK during my meditations.  Answers are here to be found, as well as true assistance and help.   It is unfair to criticize the discussion here, Don and Patty, as members of the forum say what comes to their minds, and many problems are addressed in a "think out loud" manner.   DK's dilemma gets into the issue of free will and the demonic.  How another's energy may impose itself on your physical life and reality, and her question - whether there is release from tortures in the physical in the afterlife should be answered.

I agree with Tempest that the most helpful thing would be to address her questions about the afterlife directly.  Bruce gives his experience on this site and in his books.  My own take on things is that our consciousness persists after our physical bodies have fallen off.  As such, physical limitations are replaced by astral/afterlife senses and possibly self imposed limitations.  Hells are created by beliefs - we are told this through numerous sources.  At our core, however, we are pure conscious awareness.  While it may be possible for another conscious entity to try to latch on to our physical incarnation, many sources document that our own free will exists and can not be permanently squelched.  

In the case where someone perishes while in a psychic battle of this kind, I truly can say that I am not sure what transpires in the afterlife.  However, there does appear to be something special about the physical, that draws some negative entities to try and assert control in the physical plane.  Is there such a thing as psychci possession in the astral?  I have not heard or read of any cases of this being so.  

How can DK overcome this struggle?  Spirit release, or a form of exorcism? Perhaps - one is in the realm of hypnotherapy, the other may be found in the church.  What other means?   Prayer.  Intent.  All roadsigns (Alysia) point to the express use of intent to win this battle.  Intent with certitude - this has been called spiritual healing by Ernest Holmes.  The use of intent, and gratitude - giving thanks for the desired event.  Seeing it as done.  Finally grace, and the request for help to others may play an important role.

Robert Bruce does battle more negative entities than almost any other astral explorer.  His psychic defense book is worth a read.  Though circling your bed with running water with a mechanical pump, skipping across running water and using garlic to scare off negative beings does strike me as a bit odd - since afterall this is a spiritual struggle.  Perhaps, the use of garlic merely anchors belief into the physical, like an old-fashioned spell (again to use intent).  

No one, Tempest can give enough information about the afterlife to assure DK that her trials will be washed away in the spiritual realm.  However, by keeping an open mind, trying to remove hindering belief systems which trap people after death, and learning to use intent in the real world (the here and now first), substantial progress can be made in solving her problem in the physical and what comes afterward.

Matthew

Spooky said:

Quote:

3. the trust and the feeling of self-worthyness, to deserve to go to join with your cosmic family is, in my opinion, a very good set to almost guarantee a good afterlife.

Right on!  Brilliant observation.  I'm pretty sure Dk is ok with this.  She has a strong sense of her worthiness, and as I mentioned before, she's been the clinical/psychiatrist/drug route, and it didn't help.  From what I've been able to learn, drugs can sometimes help to calm the voices and antagonists (whatever they may be) to help a person get back on their feet.  But, for others, all it does is close them down, make family, friends, and doctors believe that everything is better, when all it really does is relieve them from having to listen to the fear and hysteria of a patient.  All the while, the patient is still being tortured to a large degree, and they aren't able to fight off or protect themselves because the drug will often flatten their affect and their mind.  This is what many who have these experiences have told me, and most of them are quite rational about it.  Saner than the sane.  So, I tend to believe them when they've shown consistent clear thinking and carry on an intelligent conversation.  I've had too many weird things happen to me to automatically dismiss something that sounds far-fetched without trying to learn more about it.

That was a really interesting meditation.  I'm guessing from the way you wrote it that you either had a voice recorder or were free flowing before you forgot the details?  So, would you mind summarizing what you learned?

Don, I can't even begin to express in words how grateful I am for your kindness to Dark Knight.  I have come to know the same person that you described.  On the forum that I'm regularly on, she's been there a long time, and spends so much of her time trying to help others.  It seems to me that she has exhausted the resources there in finding answers to help herself.  I think that's why she asked in a new forum.  She kind of already knows everything that "might" help, but was so damaged from what she's endured that it's taking her a long time to come as far as she has.  I think she has found a new friend in you, which will always give someone hope.  

By the way, I'm curious as to why you exiled yourself from here.   :)

Hi Matthew, my thanks go out to you, also.  I believe Dark Knight was raised as a Catholic, but I'm not sure.  She does post many, many Catholic prayers for others...things that have helped her.   So, I know she appreciates prayers.

Quote:

In the case where someone perishes while in a psychic battle of this kind, I truly can say that I am not sure what transpires in the afterlife.

I've thought about this, also.  I've encountered negative entities in the lower realms, but never in the higher.  I'm kind of developing a belief that because their vibration is lower, they are not able to travel to the higher vibration areas.  I say, kind of developing a belief, because every time I think I've got something down, I have a new experience which then impels me to tear down old belief systems, and it gets really old.   :)

Regardless, I am confident that there will be plenty of helpers to see her over and help protect her.  I'm committed to being one of them, whether it's in this form and astral traveling, or a higher aspect of myself.  Intent is all it takes.  

I agree that jumping over water might sound a bit, hmmm....looney?   :)  But, Robert is working with people of science and has some ideas about how the electromagnetism found in running water may form some kind of shield against certain kinds of entities because of their energetic makeup.  He has dreams of being able to prove some of the theories, but at this point, is nevertheless convinced because of things he has seen and experienced.  I was skeptical, too, until a story he told me about his son (a psychologist) who was thrown across the room in front of him by an unseen force.  Again, there was a child involved who had a type of negative attachment.  He ran outside, had no problem, ran back in to help the child, and was forcefully brought to his knees and unable to move to help the child.  He repeated this several times, and was finally able to take the child outside with him.  Later, they discovered that there was an underground flowing water pipe right across the door's threshold.  Robert's son was a complete nonbeliever until this experienced happened to him.  Robert then tested it out on other people with attachments, with the same results.  There was something to the running water.  Asking his science friends about it, he came up with the hypothesis of electromagnetism and energetic makeup.  I find it very interesting, although possession and working with dark entities is not my cup of tea.  I stay as far away from it as I can, and leave it to those who have a gift and a desire in this area.  Whether some believe it or not, love and light are where my passions and interests lie.

Quote:

By the way, I'm curious as to why you exiled yourself from here.

He left because he does not like me. :(
Also because the New Age ghetto is taking control of the board and he is sick of that crap!
Hahaha

Don, thank you for pointing out DK is not Ralph Buskey - I apologise to both DK and Ralph.  I think it's great of you to offer friendship and Tempest as well you have a strong character and may it be an assest to you.  For your sake I'm concerned about therapist abuse especially on the impersonal medium of the internet where you cannot meet the person and sense their true personality.  It would be better for DK to speak for herself instead of people speaking on her behalf.

I get very impatient with 'poor me' attitudes I must say maybe because living in africa I see so much desolation and poverty where children are parentless and they are forced to fend for themselves.  Their demons are hunger and not self-induced nightmares (sorry being straight again but that's the way I see it) Spoilt attitudes just seem a bit pathetic to me really.   No, it's no reason not to offer love and support to anyone in the world though for every path has it's own up's and downs.  However, if one takes control of one's own path in life it does not unnecessarily drain the energy of sincere people who give out of love.  DK should be encouraged to stand up for herself.  

Chumley - I am a Christian and I believe in the Bible.  I don't have to enlighten you at all - enlighten yourself - we've been through this all before many of our past lives have come and gone, it is not like it is new for you, you've heard God's word many times before and still you have no love or fear for God?  For fear is respect and if you can't understand this then you might as well bow down to the numerous false idols around.

Some more poetry;

The Wisdom of Solomon
"Realising that I was only human, I prayed and was given understanding.  The spirit of Wisdom came to me.  I regarded her more highly than any throne or crown.  Wealth was nothing compared to her.  Wisdom has been my love.  I courted her when I was young and wanted to make her my bride.  I fell in love with her beauty. She glorifies her noble origin by living with God, the Lord of all who loves her.  She is familiar with God's mysteries and helps to determine his course of action.  Still, I realised that I would never receive Wisdom unless God gave her to me.

Wisdom begins when you sincerely want to learn.  To desire Wisdom is to love her.  To love her is to keep her laws; to keep her laws is to be certain of immortality; immortality will bring you close to God.  Wisdom is a spirit that is friendly to people but she will not forgive anyone who speaks against God, for God knows our feelings and thoughts, and hears our every word.  Wisdom shines bright and never grows dim, those who love her and look for her can easily find her.  To fasten your attention on Wisdom is to gain perfect understanding.  If you look for her, you will soon find peace of mind, because she will be looking for those who are worthy of her, and she will be with you in your every thought.  No one can ever exhaust the treasures of Wisdom.  Use those treasures and you are God's friends; he approves of what you learn from her".  

May we all pray for the Spirit of Wisdom in everything we do and say.

Quote:

For your sake I'm concerned about therapist abuse especially on the impersonal medium of the internet where you cannot meet the person and sense their true personality.

Please don't be concerned about this.  I have never acted as a therapist in any form with DK.  I am only acting as a friend.  And, I haven't revealed anything about her that she hasn't already revealed publicly in other forums.

Regarding "poor me" attitudes as compared to poverty and hunger, one thing that I've come to learn is that pain and suffering come in many forms.  And, it can't so easily be placed on a scale to measure one's pain against another.  Psychological pain can be just as devastating as hunger.  Someone losing their livelihood, home, friends, family, and ability to meet their basic needs because of psychological torture, no matter the cause, can hardly be accused of a "poor me" attitude.  Being a caring Christian that you are, please rethink "spoilt attitudes" and something that you have no knowledge of as being "pathetic".  DK does stand up for herself.  Quite strongly, I might add.   :)  

Ho ho ho here we all go again. Demons are so FUN!

Don's back. Chum's on board. Matt's here. Wow, let's all talk about demons and aliens and how to fight their terrible crimes until we're blue in the face.

And, good old Dark Knight. Wow, is she EVER the center of attention!

Who will be next?

I see that Recoverer has stepped out of this one. And Spooky. Don't see Alysia around. Smart, smart, smart.

I think this is really almost funny if it weren't so pathetic.

We SURE do love our demons, don't we?

love, blink

:) lol Blink,  you so right this one post has caused all sorts of emotions ... and the one who started it isn't even here!

How uncharacteristically sarcastic of you, Blink!  You usually are the embodiment of peace/Llove and acceptance.  I sort of get what you mean, however.  This thread has it all: controversy, accusation, who has PUL and who has a bug up their #^%/8?  I have been on the sidelines of late, seeing the new kids at play on the forum, and watching them explore some of the topics we've hit on time and again, but with the same bright eyed amazement that we all had for our first times  I like the words of John Lennon when, he stopped writing music to be a house-husband, and then wrote his last album:

"I'm just sitting here watching the wheels go round and round........I really love to watch them roll.  No longer riding on the merry-go-round..........I just had to let it go."

Sometimes its good to be an observer and a listener.  I've been lurking in the background, trying to do just that.  But unlike Don, I have not imposed a banishment on printing here when the spirit moves me.  Hmm...I guess he did that too in his post by posting when the spirit moved him.  

Anyway,  I did include a prayer for DK last night, and will continue to do so.

Matthew

I'm not proud of my sarcasm, Matt. But my sentiment stands. I become very weary of these endless discussions of demonic forces.

I feel that they bring down the energies of the forum and that people are much too interested in them.

But, that's just my own opinion. People can take it or leave it.

I'm personally tired right now and trying to steer a clear course for myself. These kinds of convoluted arguments don't help me at all.  So I will sit back and observe, as you suggest, for as long as feels right.

I have been spending a great deal of time in meditation lately. A huge amount of time.

I find no helpfulness in the continual references to outside sources of personal misery among some people. Love resides inside, always, there for the asking, there for the taking.

I apologize if I have offended anyone, but yes, this wheel keeps turning round and round.

To find the center takes the courage to let go of the circular logic and patterns which entrap us.

These originate in our minds. We cannot find peace in the core of our beings by obsessing with and living in our minds.

but just my two cents.....blink

wrote on Feb 27^th, 2007 at 12:27pm:

I'm not proud of my sarcasm, Matt. But my sentiment stands. I become very weary of these endless discussions of demonic forces. I feel that they bring down the energies of the forum and that people are much too interested in them. But, that's just my own opinion. People can take it or leave it. I'm personally tired right now and trying to steer a clear course for myself. These kinds of convoluted arguments don't help me at all.  So I will sit back and observe, as you suggest, for as long as feels right. I have been spending a great deal of time in meditation lately. A huge amount of time. I find no helpfulness in the continual references to outside sources of personal misery among some people. Love resides inside, always, there for the asking, there for the taking. I apologize if I have offended anyone, but yes, this wheel keeps turning round and round. To find the center takes the courage to let go of the circular logic and patterns which entrap us. These originate in our minds. We cannot find peace in the core of our beings by obsessing with and living in our minds. but just my two cents.....blink

hello sweetie, here I am!  Yes, well, I wish I could be active on all the many wonderful threads and not so wonderful threads here but my time is limited to just the places where I feel I can do the most good, then I have to get up and dance away my kinks, too much time sitting down here, not good for me. so it is a matter of being directed by spirit where to respond to each other. I have not even read the original post, but if the original poster has blown the coop, it's kind of like, why are we here then?

of course everyone has an interest in projecting guilt outside of their own self, and when we believe in demons, we are projecting blame out there so we can pat ourselves on the back and say, look, I am innocent of crimes, so it is the devil's fault, not mine...yada yada and so forth.
and this is just your standard psychological viewpoint, not religious. yes, I am a tired creature to discuss this over and over.
god save us all. I still love everybody but this love I do not own.
I'm sure if I say anything else, somebody would say I was not being loving.

but I do try to keep up with this place, it's a wonderful place for people to get their thoughts down on paper and make further decisions about what they will believe.
love, alysia

This forum is not representative of Bruce Moen's books, nor his understanding of love or acceptance.  So, you can now rejoice.  I will not be back.

Tempestinateapot:

Some of us want to help Darknight connect to her spiritual power, while you want to scare her. How charming of you.

Even if Robert Bruce's possession story is true (I've been around the block and I am not naive enough to believe everything people claim), here are some important points to consider:

1. He invited the spirit into him.
2. He was never overcome with a dark feeling (hard to imagine how this was possible if something negative had attached itself to him).
3. His mind WAS NOT taken over, because if it was, he would not had tried to resist what a spirit was trying to force his "body" to do.
4. His will WAS NOT taken over, because if it was, he would not had tried to resist what a spirit was trying to force his "body" to do.
5. When push came to shove, he did not drop his infant.
6. The spirit who was controlling him was not able to prevent him from entering the woods.
7. In the end, the spirit who tried to control him failed.

Even if the spirit who attached itself to him did get his body to do something dreadful, Robert would not had been responsible, because he never willed for something dreadfull to take place.

Regarding Robert Bruce being stronger than others, what is your basis for determining this? Because he knows a bunch of astral projection technigues? Because he knows some energy manipulation techniques? These things have nothing to do with spiritual power. Spiritual power is about connecting to God, connecting to love, connecting to your higher self. Does Robert Bruce have anything to offer when it comes to how a person can grow in love?

recoverer,

Thank you for putting and end to this MADNESS!

You summed up the situation beautifuly. I share your thoughts as well as many others here do, I would expect.

Let Love and Peace Reign

Stacy

Gee Tempest,

No one is ganging up on you or attacking.  You seem like an interesting, knowledgeable and kind soul, who can appreciate the discussions here.  I for one don't want to see you go.  IMHO, I think that this forum does have much of the inquisitiveness that Bruce demonstrates in his book, as well as general good intentions and even love.

There are some immature posters or conversations, but you would find that certain posters, and topics can be inspirational in their depth and insight.  Please stay.

Matthew

Tempestinateapot wrote on Feb 27^th, 2007 at 2:23pm:

This forum is not representative of Bruce Moen's books, nor his understanding of love or acceptance.  So, you can now rejoice.  I will not be back.

Don't leave!! You are a wise soul and a good person!!

Alysia:

You said a mouth full below. The reason so many people like to go to horror films is because it reminds them of something their own minds can create. Our minds can create all kinds of stuff when we don't allow it to be guided by the light. For some people its easier to blame outside forces all of the time, rather than admit that they have the ability to create a demon all on their own.

Perhaps some people become over obsessed with demons that are out there, because it diverts their attention away from the potential for evil that exists within all of us while we are down here. A play of opposites is a part of what being here in the physical is all about.  When outside influences do come into play, perhaps some people put the cart before the horse, if you know what I mean.

[quote author=laffingrain link=1171976585/60#68 date=1172598640][quote author=blink link=1171976585/60#67 date=1172593677]

of course everyone has an interest in projecting guilt outside of their own self, and when we believe in demons, we are projecting blame out there so we can pat ourselves on the back and say, look, I am innocent of crimes, so it is the devil's fault, not mine...yada yada and so forth.
and this is just your standard psychological viewpoint, not religious. yes, I am a tired creature to discuss this over and over.
god save us all. I still love everybody but this love I do not own.
I'm sure if I say anything else, somebody would say I was not being loving.

This is interesting - rather than providing solace for DK we seem to be involved in discussing one another, and suggesting that the other folks out there are insufficiently loving and nurturant.

DK- All the love and nurturance in the world from those who surround you is incapable of ending your discomfort. Tempest wants to love and support and nurture, and with others who feel similarly, there will be a background of caring and interest by which to shore up your emotions when you feel battered. Psychoanalytic therapy takes place in this type of setting. And all the noise on this site is because we collectively are interested in your situation and wish to be useful in some manner - sort of group therapy by proxy, perhaps.

Personally, I'm not a "warm fuzzy" type. I do ultra-brief work, roughly 300 times the rate of traditional psychoanalytic therapy - and I focus on handling business, leaving the surrounding nurturance to others - eg: Tempest. Having stated my suggestion, there's no need to repeat. To speak directly to your future, you will find that as you alter the attitudes through which the entities can had access to you you will gain relief. This will take a while, depending on effort.

From the comments you've observed here, you can tell that we are all willing and interested in being helpful, each in their own way. Personally, if I can be of use to you, I'm here. Else, I'm going to shut up and have another cup of coffee. May God bless you, and may you realize the blessings soon.
dave

the title of this thread is why I didn't want to read it Albert. I go thru life seeing demons not there. thats straight out of Bruce's books...I might be his clone :)

aside from that, theres is thing DP my guide calls dark night of the soul. seems everyone tromps through it, some committ suicide or murder someone if they don't get help soon enough. during mine I called out for help and a guide came and said "now what are you doing to yourself? Do I always have to rescue you?"

then I knew for sure I may have had some influence from malicious spirits around, but the decision to break thru came with the guides words that I was back in control.
it was very oppressing but just knowing the help had arrived and was there for the asking turned me around. oh boy the rest of the night I felt so foolish. I'd reached a turning point to take charge of myself.
we do have these helpers out there who will respond in an emergency, I wish everybody knew they were there.

I've read Robert Bruce. I think he's a negative discharger, which is not bad. he has these experiences to pop the baloon of negativity...an energy that builds up and takes form. I read of how he took on a child's negative entity and suffered to do it, so I have nothing against what he says, and he does mention a story of how love transformed him. the ones who follow him are warriors. I am not wanting to be that, but I can appreciate he's doing what he does ok. on top of that he tries to interpret his experiences and its really hard to do that, so that another understands.
I think he's just like us here though, experiencing astral life through his own lenses.

demons? nah....negs?   yea, that's better. hey! I'd say this...you better quit sucking on my life prana!!!   lol....DP taught me how to make a command statement. it works.

love you guys, alysia

wow..explosive thread! I don't intend this to be a mean-sprirted comment, but so many were stirred by it, including myself. When I first saw the beginings of this, I thought, oh, my...I recall some serious oppression in my life, and whether I brought it on myself, by my own thoughts, or wasn't strong or aware enough to not be absolutely terrified flat by them(experiences)...and if I would have posted anywhere about my experiences at times...I'd be probably tired myself, and I was, of being in that experience.I don't know if it's b/c it's such a common representation of evil, for some, that we are attracted/revulsed by the thought of evil and demonic entities...and perhaps it's truly a "guilty"interest of my own...but throughout I have learned so much from asking the questions, over and over, at least with myself, or any spiritual leader that would listen...and I believe truly this is a type of hell, that we live here, in the general face your fears and grow, experiences with life...and I also believe what I've felt/seen/experienced to be as real as anything else I've experienced...but am careful to not give away my personal power, certainly not intentionally...and still, I have so much room to grow, and so much more to learn,and even rediscover, b/c I find so much of "learning" seems to be recollection or prior knowledge.
    I love any stories, as Alysia mentioned and I'd like to read about it myself, about the tranformative power of love..I am in love with that whole idea, b/c that's when the shift occured for me...I mean the shift from feeling all out attacked all the time,to feeling like I have control back at least as far as my fears go,and in some other manners, and I know that everything else I learn about, that will be of profound help in my life, will be coming from the place of unconditional love itself, I'm sure all good things, at least.I wont go into too much detail like I always seem to do, and prattle on and on about different experiences...but I like the idea that some of us are warriors of a kind ;)...and I've always felt such a love for the figure of St.Micheal for example...and I think my experiences themselves perhaps put me in touch with several "warrior" lifetimes(some literal, others so to speak)...and just when I feel I gave up the "fight", in place of "love"...and still have in certain respects absolutely...I still have this fascination with things like this b/c of that sincere desire in me, now, that if I can, if I could, I will/would elect to try and bring hope and love into the person's  reality that experiences, demons...and I kind of look at it like feelings, not right, or wrong, but there.....and as generic as it might sound, I feel that it's percisely where I should try to shine light of experience, hope, and strength, and hope then, that sheer numbers of similar positive experiences, will shift, or to humbly help if possible to shift a person's perspective from demons to angels...and I mean that as use of colorful language, as well as literally.
   I was so fortunate to come here hurt, and wounded in my own multiple ways, and have so many of you out there with love to extend....and I still see that...I think the damage that "demons"in themselves might represent is a trigger or sore spot for so many of us that were crushed by the threat of eternal torments by some kind of "rejection" from a loving God...to me, the devil didn't really give me someone to blame, but I thought that I somehow deserved to suffer, and thinking back, I think now I invited negativity into my experience from a young age, some intentional, maybe, but alot of it not...all I know is I'll forever be grateful for the nurturers in my journey...and I hope in some way to give back if/when I can...Much Love,Tanja

Thank you, Matthew.  Unfortunately, the only love I see here is for people who fall into line with the belief system of the majority of posters.  VERY, VERY conditional.  Believe what we believe, or leave.  We'll believe it or not, I hold some of the same views of self-empowerment, trust in your Higher Self, and that many of the most fearful things in life are of our own creation.  But, I also believe that I don't know everything, haven't experienced everything, and leave open the possibility that many of the things I think are true today, may not be my truths tomorrow.

The views here are too small and narrow minded for me.  This forum, it appears from an outsiders view, to have become incestuous, inbreeding with no open air or room for different beliefs.  There is a glaring intolerance here.  And, most certainly, newcomers with different ideas are made to feel very unwelcome.  Those with the most posts do not necessarily hold the most wisdom.  Particularly when they make judgements and negative statements about authors whom they clearly have not read all the works, nor spoken to in person.  Read parts of one book, make a judgement because it doesn't fall into line with your personal beliefs, and convince others that that author is negative because you know it to be true.  Yeh, that's wise.

Yes, I'm being very judgemental and calling a spade a spade.  It no longer matters to me what anyone here thinks of me, because it clearly doesn't matter to many here to show any degree of humanity or love to someone who doesn't march to your song.  I wonder if Bruce Moen has any idea how this forum appears to outsiders?  Because, there are a number of outsiders looking in who are appalled at what they've seen.

Tanja, that was beautiful, and what DK was looking for.  Unfortunately, you showed up too late.

Tempestinateapot:

Perhaps you wouldn't feel so bad about things if you would seriously consider what others are saying. Just because people have views that are different than yours, this doesn't mean they are wrong and lacking in love.  Some of us tried to tell dark knight that she is strong enough to overcome what torments her, and you tried to scare her with Robert Bruce's possession story. How does that help? I don't get it.  You've been here for how long, and you already know what this forum is all about.  What do you expect, that people immediately accept your viewpoints?

P.S. If you consider what I wrote about Robert Bruce's possession experience, you'll see that his will wasn't taken over.  Our bodies and wills are two different things.

This thread grew wings of its own, darting around like a mad sparrow.

I have not posted to this thread, because though I have my own perception on the events, I am not as aware of all of the circumstances, nor the events alluded to by DK. I journeyed in search of more information. Interestingly enough, DK offered a valuable key: she has posted more detailed information on other forums. Upon reading this, the context of her post here changed. Some of you may find these posts interestings, so I shall include them in the visitor link section in an attempt to isolate them from this post and rekindling the whole affair.

Based on what I have read so far, I can only say that DK took the matter by the horns and has continued to do so. She is a fighter and as some of you will discover upon reading the posts, the connections to your own philosphies will lit. Based on what I have seen, DK has not limited herself to one set of believes, but has chosen to find the tools she needs where she can find them.


E.  [smiley=engel017.gif]

And just to keep it real --- my grammar and my spellin' in the last post was horrible. (should read "be lit" and beliefs not believes.) Sheesh.






E

recoverer, I can appreciate the fact that people try to help in the only way they know.  We all do that.  What I have been saying over and over is that I know this situation with DK, and that most of the things being said here show a lack of even trying to understand what she is going through.  I saw very, very few, if none, questions about her situation.  Most just assume that she is nuts, that she is looking for attention, that she won't do anything to help herself, that she just needs to think nice, positive thoughts and all of this will go away.  Where have you tried to understand something that you haven't experienced?  Where have you tried to listen without poking your belief system in the middle of everything you've said.  Where have you tried to be her friend, instead of hurling veiled insults at her situation and saying you know what's best.  (Again, the universal you.)  Did you even notice that I said that many of my beliefs are identical to the majority here?  The glaring difference is that I leave room open that there may be something I don't know, because I just haven't experienced it.  No, I don't think I'm better than anyone else.  I know I'm not.  Did you miss that part?  Did you miss the part where I said I treated DK just as she's being treated here?  Did you miss the part where I tried to express that some of the things I thought were absolute truth were shaken to the core?  I now know that "beliefs" get in the way, not only of absolute truth, but of helping someone.  

About me telling one of Robert's stories....that wasn't for DK.  Don't you think that after 9 years she's heard all the stories?  Could tell a large number from her own experiences that would make the hair on the back of your neck stand up?  Is she really that naive that I could tell a story that would scare her?  Did you bother to ask her?

I know you are tired of people coming into your forum and yellling "demons!"  I'm on a forum where this has been going on for years.  Don't you think I'm just as tired of the whole thing?  But, what I'm tired of is very different from what you're tired of.  I'm tired of people assuming that they know everything.  That love and light will patch everything up and make the boogey man go away.  I'm tired of people who know nothing about either mental health or severe trauma ,from something that's other than human, laughing those in need right off a forum and then having the balls to be actually proud of it.  Mostly because I've done it.  And, I am deeply, deeply sorry for it.  I don't think ("think" not KNOW) that everything happening to DK is from an outside force.  Obviously, every single one of us can create thought forms to scare the bejesus out of ourselves.  But, listen to her.  She says she was abducted.  Physically.  And, tortured.  I don't know if it's true.  I wasn't there.  But, I leave the possibility open that something is happening that I can't make a judgement on because I HAVEN'T EXPERIENCED IT.  

If someone had told me 10 years ago that I would be leaving my body and traveling to different parts of the world and galaxy, having transcendental experiences, and knowing the face of God, I would have said, "Time for the straight jacket, now".  But, they have happened to me.  I can't make them go away.  They are more real than this computer I'm on.  Knowing that, how can I judge what someone else says and say for a fact it just didn't happen?  How can you?  Particularly if you've been OBE.  Good for you if you've never encountered anything negative except your own thought forms.  I'd try to keep it that way if I were you.  But, funny thing is, that doesn't haplpen to everyone.  Neither does rape, or kidnapping, or physical torture, but are you going to tell those people that either their experiences were made up, or that they should just think about love and light and it will be fine?  What if it happens to your own child?  Are you going to tell them to think of Jesus, and now shut up because they should be over it by now?  There is no time table for healing.  And, there is no way that you have of knowing that every single belief you hold is exactly how it is.

I was an evangelical Christian a long time ago.  I knew for certain that Jesus would save me from the wrath of God and hell.  I knew it, deep down inside, without a doubt.  No one could shake that belief from me.  Well, it changed.  Just as all temporary things (including earth) change.  I don't need to be saved.  I am an eternal being who can never really be harmed.  I have no fear.  Did my truth change?  You bet it did.  Which is true?  They all "felt" true.  I knew both of those two truths.  But, I knew them at completely different times in my life.  So, I don't hang my hat on what I think I know anymore.  There's a really big chance I might be wrong.  About everything.

Tempestinateapot:

Without saying who is wrong and who is right, I've said all that I have to say. If I wrote anymore I would just be redundant. Each person can decide for themselves where I was coming from when I wrote my posts.  It's a big universe out there, and I'm just one little tiny part.

Tempest, you said:
There is no time table for healing.  And, there is no way that you have of knowing that every single belief you hold is exactly how it is.
----------------------------------------

You are absolutely right in these two simple statements.

It has become clear to me that you, yourself, Tempest, are in a state of pain and confusion to which each of us may have unwittingly contributed.

I will validate, at this moment, that you have your truth, today, as you see it. It is yours. You own it.  

I accept this truth as yours, and I now hold and will hold you in my loving thoughts for the rest of this entire day so that you may be released from the pain that you carry on behalf of those who suffer in this world.

I hear the cry of your heart...I echo it...I send you love.

love, blink

blink, I appreciate that.  I know you want to help.  But, for some people, love and light are so far away that telling them that's what they need to do is not only not helpful, it can be harmful.  Some people have to hit bottom before they can begin to heal.  Others can be helped quickly.  But, there is no one blanket way of doing it that works for everyone.  That's why listening is so important.  You have to meet them where they are at.  Not from where you are.  It's like speaking two different languages.  None of this is original to me.  I learned the hard way by talking and arguing with people.  This is what they taught me.  This is what they tell me they need.

I'm not sure where you are getting that I'm confused.  I became clear and reached enlightenment when I was able to drop beliefs and the need to put everything in a "right" or "wrong" box.  I don't have any "truths".  I have ideas about how things work, but I'm not married to them.  My reality is that every reality is of value.   I don't believe in right or wrong.  I only believe in experience, and that I exist.  I exist in many forms.  Some I'm aware of, some I'm not.  The one and only abiding truth that I know, without a shadow of a doubt, is that there is nothing that is not Source.  And, that makes everything ok in my book.

Tempest, you said:
I'm not sure where you are getting that I'm confused.  I became clear and reached enlightenment when I was able to drop beliefs and the need to put everything in a "right" or "wrong" box.  I don't have any "truths".  I have ideas about how things work, but I'm not married to them.  My reality is that every reality is of value.   I don't believe in right or wrong.  I only believe in experience, and that I exist.  I exist in many forms.  Some I'm aware of, some I'm not.  The one and only abiding truth that I know, without a shadow of a doubt, is that there is nothing that is not Source.  And, that makes everything ok in my book.


So....Tempest....what, at this moment, is lacking?

love, blink :)

There is nothing that is lacking.  But, here, we're getting into a completely different area of understandings.  Which, if the past is any measure, would put this thread into the Guinness Book of World Records for length and off-topicness.   :)

Patty, hi

I hear you and I understand.  As Blink heard you in her love.  

In first post under this topic I spoke about luciferic (and ahrimen) influences in the astral world.  I have studied this subject for many years and I do not write lightly about these forces; I never write about something I do not understand and if I do not understand I ask.  I do not claim to say I know everything I don't.  I have learnt a great deal from the experienced members here.  I understand these forces though because I have experienced them in the astral realm.

I have been there a good few times and it is a location I constantly make a conscious effort to avoid.  It is a terrible realm, it is degrading and frightening.  I also see 'as above, so below'  these forces working in manifestation in the world, lack of love being a prime example. One does not have to venture into the dark realms to see these forces one can see them below.  

The power of Christ is here for this reason.  The people who understand the power of Christ are initiated into understanding how these dark realms operate and are not 'kidnapped' by false promises of eternal free life only to find they are being used as pawns.  Do not underestimate the power of Christ and do not dismiss the importance of this power.  

Lets us look at this equation;

C&E = RL :  consciousness & energy = reality of location.  The degree of your consciousness is the reality of your location in the spritual realms.  If it is a weak consciousness with no power or protection the location will be in the lower realms.

CC&E = RL : Christ consciousness & energy (or Ego) = reality of location.  Concentrating on the power of Christ will protect a soul, give it strength, wisdom, understanding, love and joy, a spirit of a safe and happy community and lift the consciousness out of the lower realms into realms of truth and love.

The importance of the second location, Christ consciousness is it is within - one becomes spiritualised in Christ etheric body - no-one can take it away from you.  You are free.

The danger of the first location, the lower astral realms, as DK pointed out - is it is not within - consciousness is without, on the outside, open to control by the above mentioned forces.

It was for this reason God sent his Son to us.  For Christ is the way and he is the truth.  There is only one truth and it does not lie or misled you, it guides you into safety.

People who mock this and dismiss it are operating from a consciousness on the outside.  This is not said unkindly, it is not said in lack of understanding of the perception of dogma, it is not saying you don't have Christ and you are wrong. To love and trust in God's Son is a conscious decision, it is not a submission - there is a huge difference in this -  the fruits of Christ consciousness speak for themselves, love, caring and understanding,  I just tend to be vocal.

If the other members do not mind I post again - understanding the astral world, in case you have not come across this in your studies.  

May God's love be with you.



 

Understanding the Astral World

The realm above, next to and around our visible world is the Astral realm. The Astral is a realm where desires, passions, feelings, wishes, sensations, blind instincts, fantasies and lust take on myriads of forms and shapes.  

Here supersensible beings higher and lower than man can assume shape and form; some entice and deceive him, others to communicate with him. Here also are mankinds individual and collective hates, passions, wishes etc that take shape and form.

In addition, all the soul qualities concentrated in the various animal species have their group souls in the Astral world.  For instance, the quality of cattiness that embraces all cats, the tigerishness in all tigers, the rattiness of rats, the foxiness of all foxes etc.

One can also encounter astral forms representing qualities of supersensible beings which never incarnate on earth.  .

What a diversity of shapes of forms all these beings can assume.  How hideous some of these can be sensed from descriptions of nightmares, childhood dreams and feverish experiences.

In the Astral world forces of sympathy and antipathy are dominant.
Each mans own inner nature attracts to himself those beings of a similar nature to this own.  Antipathy repels to unlike him.

Self-knowledge therefore, is essential before entering the Astral world, because ones own desires and passions confront him in animal or more seldom, in human form.  Even the conditions of ones physical organs are spread our before him and take a dramatic animal form.  Delusion results for the unprepared and unsuspecting.

Into this world is the medium, the drugged and the hypnotised cast.  The dangers of deception are present every moment and he who enters the astral world unprepared and uninformed of its nature will therefore bring back unreliable information and fantasy.

The human being has a supersensible 'double' which takes of his own inner nature and ones own inner nature may take on shapes so horrible and frightening.

One may call our 'double' in the Astral world as 'The Dweller of the Threshold'.  It is he himself in his unpurified inner nature that thus confronts him.  He is either a beast, in it's lowest form or an Angel, in it's highest form. This is the key, the gateway, to raise our sentinent soul to the level of Spirit-Self.

Man needs a high degree of ethical development, self knowledge and courage in order to enter the higher worlds safely.  

I don't know all of the specifics, but I basically agree with the below (what augo wrote).

For a while I didn't accept the importance of Jesus Christ, partly because I was unhappy about certain fundamentalist ideas, and partly because I had been helped by spiritual guidance quite a bit, and I felt it would be disrespectful and show a lack of grattitude to not acknowledge my higher self (in a disc sense), by thinking of Christ.

But then I started to receive the message either in written form or in thought form "accept Christ." This troubled me for the aforementioned reasons. I told God that if Jesus Christ is significant part of your divine plan then I'm all for him, but I can't accept this without knowing, simply because a book such as the Bible says so.

I started to have experiences and receive messages which told me that Jesus Christ is a significant part of God's divine plan (not in a fundamentalist manner).  I reviewed my life and found that even before I received the "accept Christ" messages, I had had some very significant experiences which told me that Christ is a significant part of the divine plan.  My lack of openness had prevented me from seeing this.

I reconsidered how I viewed things and found that it is a mistake to underestimate how much Jesus has helped people. I know a number of Christian people. I don't agree with all their ideas, but they're good people. Part of the reason they are good people is because of their faith.  If they didn't have their faith, they might've lived their lives in a different way, and end up in a hell like realm some day.

Some people might say that it is possible for a person to be a good loving person without being a Christian, and I agree, but this doesn't mean that some people didn't need to have Christianity as a part of their lives. For many people it has made a difference. It is a mistake judge the overall effect by some of the unsettling ideas that some Christians have. I also believe it is a mistake to believe that most Christians will end up in a belief system. Perhaps some extremists, but my feeling is that many of them will cross over quite fine.

My guess is that the divine powers that be had an idea of how Christianity would evolve. They know about human nature. Nevertheless, they went ahead and had Jesus come to this planet as a messenger. Probably because they realized what the overall effect would be. They realized that many souls, because of their faith, wouldn't end up in lower realms that otherwise would've ended up in lower realms. A person's faith will open he or she to the presence of God and Christ to the degree he or she allows.  

I'm not a person who relies on books. I've been mislead by them too many times. But I'd be a fool to not trust my experiences and the messages I have received, considering how they have come to me.  I'd also be a fool to not trust the changes that have taken place in my life. I've found that Christ and his friends can provide you with spiritual help if you are sincere about receiving it.  

Last night I received a message stating that living according to the will of Christ is the same thing as living according to your own will, once you find out who you are on the soul level. We all come from the same divine source. We just get lost for a while.


augoeideian wrote on Mar 1^st, 2007 at 4:08am:

Patty, hi The power of Christ is here for this reason.  The people who understand the power of Christ are initiated into understanding how these dark realms operate and are not 'kidnapped' by false promises of eternal free life only to find they are being used as pawns.  Do not underestimate the power of Christ and do not dismiss the importance of this power.   Lets us look at this equation; C&E = RL :  consciousness & energy = reality of location.  The degree of your consciousness is the reality of your location in the spritual realms.  If it is a weak consciousness with no power or protection the location will be in the lower realms. CC&E = RL : Christ consciousness & energy (or Ego) = reality of location.  Concentrating on the power of Christ will protect a soul, give it strength, wisdom, understanding, love and joy, a spirit of a safe and happy community and lift the consciousness out of the lower realms into realms of truth and love. The importance of the second location, Christ consciousness is it is within - one becomes spiritualised in Christ etheric body - no-one can take it away from you.  You are free. The danger of the first location, the lower astral realms, as DK pointed out - is it is not within - consciousness is without, on the outside, open to control by the above mentioned forces. It was for this reason God sent his Son to us.  For Christ is the way and he is the truth.  There is only one truth and it does not lie or misled you, it guides you into safety. People who mock this and dismiss it are operating from a consciousness on the outside.  This is not said unkindly, it is not said in lack of understanding of the perception of dogma, it is not saying you don't have Christ and you are wrong. To love and trust in God's Son is a conscious decision, it is not a submission - there is a huge difference in this -  the fruits of Christ consciousness speak for themselves, love, caring and understanding,  I just tend to be vocal. If the other members do not mind I post again - understanding the astral world, in case you have not come across this in your studies.   May God's love be with you.

Umm, methinks someone is trying to make a convert out of me.  Sorry, it's not going to happen.  Been down the Jesus road, and it's not all it's cracked up to be.  Ever actually OBE'd to the Belief System Territories?  No thanks.  Beliefs don't save you, they limit you.  I didn't realize I was on a Christian forum.  More reason for me to leave.

I don't think it's a Christian forum...I'm as pagan as it gets, and I'm still here.  I think some Christians bring up their religion more than some others, maybe because it's one with a rule book and so easier to talk about.  Doesn't effect me one way or the other, I'm just along for the ride.

Tempestinateapot wrote on Mar 1^st, 2007 at 6:50pm:

Umm, methinks someone is trying to make a convert out of me.  Sorry, it's not going to happen.  Been down the Jesus road, and it's not all it's cracked up to be.  Ever actually OBE'd to the Belief System Territories?  No thanks.  Beliefs don't save you, they limit you.  I didn't realize I was on a Christian forum.  More reason for me to leave.

I'm anti Christian too.. I don't dislike Christians... I just don't like all their motives and their whole turn to Jesus or burn in hell forever!! It's all fear based tactics...


There is more like us here!! Please do stay here!!!

Tempest,

Enough with the threats of leaving.  Stay and express your opinions.  You have not been subjected to scorn or rage.  This board has a mixture of souls, much as the real world/life does.  I can direct you to another forum which is a true PUL-fest, but there are some interesting topics found here, that you simply won't come across over there.

I am not religious, though I love God and am trying to love all others, seeing them as me, seeing through their eyes, instead of seeing it as us vs. them.  One concept I like is the "judge not, less ye be judged," from the bible.  It stands to reason that if we play the dichotomy game (us vs. them, good vs. evil, etc.) and judge others harshly we adopt belief systems that we are also subject to.  You should certainy appreciate this, given your last few posts.

You are not in a Christian forum; PM Don if you have ANY doubt about that, as he has felt himself to be the victim of Christian bashing here at times - this was only true when stray Newbies would post vulgar messages and leave.

We are all big boys and girls here (I hope).  .  A little verbal spat on the board or a disagreement is no reason to go off in a huff.  I woud say that staying, and sharing your opinions without regard for any bumps in the road would be a great way to share your points of view.  

I don't hold anyone on this forum up to a PUL - meter.  Ugghhhh....who can prove he/she scores well on that all the time?  

There is a peer-moderator system here where you can send any text to a moderator to object to any particulary offensive post.  It works.  

For me, I would say, don't be too hasty to take a negative spin on this forum - Don chiming in out of his self-imposed exile, and a few other stray comments aside.  Put away your PUL meter, pull up a seat, and let's have some fun.

Matthew

DocM wrote on Mar 1^st, 2007 at 7:32pm:

Tempest, Enough with the threats of leaving.  Stay and express your opinions.  You have not been subjected to scorn or rage.  This board has a mixture of souls, much as the real world/life does.  I can direct you to another forum which is a true PUL-fest, but there are some interesting topics found here, that you simply won't come across over there. I am not religious, though I love God and am trying to love all others, seeing them as me, seeing through their eyes, instead of seeing it as us vs. them.  One concept I like is the "judge not, less ye be judged," from the bible.  It stands to reason that if we play the dichotomy game (us vs. them, good vs. evil, etc.) and judge others harshly we adopt belief systems that we are also subject to.  You should certainy appreciate this, given your last few posts. You are not in a Christian forum; PM Don if you have ANY doubt about that, as he has felt himself to be the victim of Christian bashing here at times - this was only true when stray Newbies would post vulgar messages and leave. We are all big boys and girls here (I hope).  .  A little verbal spat on the board or a disagreement is no reason to go off in a huff.  I woud say that staying, and sharing your opinions without regard for any bumps in the road would be a great way to share your points of view.   I don't hold anyone on this forum up to a PUL - meter.  Ugghhhh....who can prove he/she scores well on that all the time?   There is a peer-moderator system here where you can send any text to a moderator to object to any particulary offensive post.  It works.   For me, I would say, don't be too hasty to take a negative spin on this forum - Don chiming in out of his self-imposed exile, and a few other stray comments aside.  Put away your PUL meter, pull up a seat, and let's have some fun. Matthew

Great post Doc...

Tempestinateapot:

I didn't write about what I learned through reading a book. Here are some examples.

Years ago when I was an atheist, I found myself in heaven one night. It was a wonderful place. The level of happiness was beyond what you can find in this World.  I was so relieved to find that the afterlife existed.  I also understood that it was true about God and Jesus. In a wonderful way, not a fundamentalist way. Not only did I understand that these things are true, I completely understood how they were possible without having to think about it.

When the experience ended I was really dissapointed. Unfortunately the stubborn parts of my mind resisted what my experience had just told me.  It wasn't until years later that I understood that what I had experienced was way beyond what my mind could create based on past experience.  Especially the part where I understood how God, Jesus and the afterlife are true without having to think about it, and the degree and type of happiness I felt.

On another occasion I did a retrievel while meditating.  Me and the man I was retrieving were standing by a cliff edge by the ocean, while I tried to get him to cross over. Suddenly he forgot all about me, because accross a bay Jesus appeared.  Gold light emanated from him an filled the bay. The man I was trying to retrieve floated to where Jesus was in a timeless manner. Why did such an experience happen? It wasn't something I planned. Perhaps somebody was trying to tell me something.

I have awakened kundalini. One evening while going through the kundalini unfoldment process I was shown a lifesize image of a heavy metal rocker dude.  I could see kundalini flowing through him. He said that he uses his kundalini for evil. Next I was shown a demonic lifesize image of myself. Next I was shown the face of Jesus Christ. The message was clear. If I'm going to go through the kundalini unfoldment process, make certain that I do so according to Christ consciousness.

I see spirits in various ways, but one way is in the form of flashing stars. One night I woke up in the middle of the night from a dream. I turned on my night lamp and grabbed a pen and my dream journal in order to take some notes. But then I saw a star flash that was much bigger than any star I've seen before. It also radiated much more energy than any star had radiated before. The presence I experienced felt more real than the physical World.  It felt divine. I didn't see or hear him, but the understanding came to me that this was the presence of Jesus. I forgot about my dream notes, turned off my night lamp, put away my note pad and pen, and laid down on my side. Because of my awakened kundalini I've experienced lots of energy, but during this experience I was overcome with more energy than I had experienced before. I was worked on with light energy for about 15 minutes. My heart chakra expanded until it surrounded my entire upper body. The path way from my throat chakra to my crown chakra were worked on. Ever since, the energy flow along this pathway has been more alive and more clear than ever before.  A block in my heart chakra also cleared after I let go of limiting/confused ideas regarding Jesus.

I also experienced divine love during this experience. I felt a tremendous amount of love, humility and gratitude towards Jesus, and it had nothing to do with being subservient.  I also had the feeling that he can be in as many places as he wants. If a person truly wants help, and he or she is willing to be a little more humble about his or her viewpoints, he or she can get help.

I've received numerous other confirmations about Jesus Christ that didn't come in the form of a book.

I can understand that fundamentalism turned you off. The same thing happened to me. But don't throw out the baby with the bath water.







Tempestinateapot wrote on Mar 1^st, 2007 at 6:50pm:

Umm, methinks someone is trying to make a convert out of me.  Sorry, it's not going to happen.  Been down the Jesus road, and it's not all it's cracked up to be.  Ever actually OBE'd to the Belief System Territories?  No thanks.  Beliefs don't save you, they limit you.  I didn't realize I was on a Christian forum.  More reason for me to leave.

Doc, I'm not judging anybody.  And, I'm not putting a negative spin on this forum.  It doesn't matter to me in the slightest what other people believe.  I think everyone is exactly where they should be, and there is not a thing that needs to be done or to change in the world.  I just don't enjoy wading through long posts whose sole purpose is to tell me I need to turn to Christ.  And, there's a few too many for my taste.  Jesus is great, but I don't look to any avatars to know God.  Have you ever heard the Zen Buddhist story, if you meet the Buddha on the road to enlightenment, kill him?  Well, I killed him.  

I enjoy a thought provoking post as much as anyone, but when it comes to avatars, any avatar, it's no longer thought provoking to me, it's prostelitizing.  Which, there's nothing wrong with that.  It just doesn't appeal to me.  If anyone wants to talk about enlightenment, I'm all over it.  I'm enlightened.  I'm still in the game, not because I think the game is real, but because I choose to be.  Most people think the game is real and get all twisted up if you say differently.  So, I can see where this would go if I stayed.  It's not my intention, but I would end up just pissing off a bunch of people.  When maintaining the warm, fuzzy atmosphere of a forum is more important than understanding the truth, the truth is never found.  The harder someone holds on to their beliefs, the more likely they will stay on the karmic wheel and put off becoming enlightened.


Quote:

I don't hold anyone on this forum up to a PUL - meter.  Ugghhhh....who can prove he/she scores well on that all the time?

This is the truest thing I've heard on this forum.

Tempestinapot you are a sour puss aren't you?  Good luck with the demons - have fun sounds like you enjoy them.

Recoverer; I honour and respect the Christ Impulse in you  :)

A few questions to everyone here:

Why is anyone begging Tempest to stay?

Why is anyone mad or sad or indifferent or on any side of anything at all?  

This is not a criticism because I understand the sentiments -- I reacted to her also, but I have released her.  She is water and she is steam.

Tempest is in a teapot.  

The water in a teapot heats to a full boil.... and then the steam starts coming out of the spout.

Can you hear the sound it makes?  

I am hearing it now as a whistling sound.  Almost a little musical.

Eventually the water will boil away if it's left on the stove. And that's okay.

Maybe a few of us will have a little tea while we're at it.

This forum is her teapot...for the moment.

Our thoughts and our words are the stove turning the flame up and down.  

Simmer, simmer, boil, boil.... We are in control of the flame as we learn how to use it.

love love love unashamedly to all of you no matter whether you like it or not :)
blink

Tempest,

I'll ask you, but my question is open to all who are involved in this. I do not have much background in psychology, have just read what I liked lol. So consider me uninformed.
On another thread here someone posted links to DK's early UFO posts. Her first statement in a one sentence paragraph before any of the rest of this history is shown is that
'In 1995 a relative died.'
Period. Alone. Like a headline.
She obviously recognized some major significance to this fact.
So why haven't you, who have been going through this with her every step of the way it seems, or someone who knew this significant fact, helped her with it?
Whether that death brings to her mind issues of abandonment or abuse or something else, it seems significant. Instead she's encouraged to continue to weave herself deeper and deeper into a subject that may not be the primary cause of her suffering. Or so it seems to me.

Bets

Good question, Bets!  A personal loss is so often the original source of much misunderstanding and grief in a person's life.

b

The problem, dear Bets is that you are making an assumption.  This is the problem with DK having left this thread.  If DK wanted help from us, we could/can only give it if DK continues to post and make the request.  Otherwise, when you assume, you are in a purely hypothetical area, without feedback from the suffering person (DK).

I do think DK and Tempests' departure was quite sudden, and if you read through the replies, none were particularly scathing or mean spirited.  Its a situation where someone is asking for help, but also putting a lot of their own personal rules on how they are willing to be helped.  I was wondering if someone can help me with such-and-so, and oh yes, if you talk about JC, or suggest I need psychiatric help, or the following - I'm outta here.  My response is - please let us engage in a dialogue to help, but rather than leave, just let us know what you are willing to discuss.  Or, it may be best if DK is private messaging some of us, if he/she does not wish to air their dirty linen on a discussion forum.

Either way, any objective reader will see the majority here ready to lend an ear, a shoulder and our support to solve this problem.  Read this thread, if you doubt that.

Matthew

Doc M,

I don't doubt the over-all tone of the thread. I just let the teapot get me steamed.

Bets

Yeah, I'm familiar with the below phrase. Are you certain that it was written by somebody who really knew what he was talking about?   It doesn't show transcendence and wisdom. It shows a lack of grattitude and humility.  


[quote author=Tempestinateapot link=1171976585/90#97 date=1172799131] Have you ever heard the Zen Buddhist story, if you meet the Buddha on the road to enlightenment, kill him?  Well, I killed him.  

Thank you augoeideian, and the same to you.  :)



augoeideian wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2007 at 5:10am:

Recoverer; I honour and respect the Christ Impulse in you  :)

You don't want to help Dark Knight.  You want to convert her to your belief system to prove you are right.  And, the assumptions being made about other's character is nothing short of absurd.

wrote on Mar 2^nd, 2007 at 10:24am:

A few questions to everyone here: Why is anyone begging Tempest to stay? Why is anyone mad or sad or indifferent or on any side of anything at all?   This is not a criticism because I understand the sentiments -- I reacted to her also, but I have released her.  She is water and she is steam. Tempest is in a teapot.   The water in a teapot heats to a full boil.... and then the steam starts coming out of the spout. Can you hear the sound it makes?   I am hearing it now as a whistling sound.  Almost a little musical. Eventually the water will boil away if it's left on the stove. And that's okay. Maybe a few of us will have a little tea while we're at it. This forum is her teapot...for the moment. Our thoughts and our words are the stove turning the flame up and down.   Simmer, simmer, boil, boil.... We are in control of the flame as we learn how to use it. love love love unashamedly to all of you no matter whether you like it or not :) blink

Blink,

I just read what you posted here and I am amazed. This is the same analogy that I came up with, with my guides help. She got me steamed too, which is so unlike me. They actually showed her as just steam billowing away. At their suggestion I just skip over her posts because of the negativity that it makes me feel was slowing my progress. I have bigger fish to fry!

Now please note that I did not say that Tempist is negative, simply that her posts affect me personally in a negative way. She has a much right to post here as any of us and I support that. And perhaps in time we will all come to a better understanding. Until then I am moving in the direction I am supposed to without unnecessary hindrances.

I just wanted you to know Bets, that I understand where you are coming from and theres no shame in that. We feel what we feel. We go on the best way we know how. If we are 'aware' we grow from it.

Love to you, Stacy

Blink, you finally got something right...
Quote:

She is water and she is steam.

:)  Sadly, though, I don't think you understand it.  Did you happen to notice my signature?  It says the same thing.

daiseymae said:
Quote:

Now please note that I did not say that Tempist is negative, simply that her posts affect me personally in a negative way.

Now, we are getting somewhere!  I would be happy to go down this particular rabbit hole with anyone who cares to.  But, it won't bring you the warm fuzzies that seem to be so important to some here.  What it will do, if you let it, is to bring you an abiding truth and peace that cannot be taken away no matter what your emotions or feelings are telling you.  But, then, you probably think you have that already.  Right?  I'm a little further along on the road, and I can see that what you think you have, it is merely steam.  It's not the real deal.

Good grief!!!  I leave for awhile to get away from all the negativity and come back right into it again.

First off Augo, I'd like to say that God is a loving God but not a vengeful God as you wrote. Don't take everything the bible says as truth. It was written by mere moral men. How can anything be loving and vengeful. It's impossible. Period!!!

Next, about DK's abductions. Does anyone know that the Cabal (which consists of parts of the US government and other leaders from around the world) puts out disinformation regarding ET's. Does anyone know about the Black-Ops programs in our government where mind control is a honed science.  Does anyone know that Black-Ops do abductions to make people feel they were abducted by aliens. They plant false memories of horrible things that have supposedly happened to them. Do some research on the internet. You will find plenty about it. Tempest, would you please relay this information to DK?  

Please remember that we are all ONE.

Last but not least is Donald's famous line of 'new age ghetto.'  ROFLMAO  That's getting old Donald. Can't you think of a new line for us?

Namaste,
Mairlyn

Hi Marilyn,
DK is really knowledgable about things that you mentioned, but I'll pass it on.  I find this all really odd.  On the forum I'm active on, I'm considered a "Love and Lighter", and now all this negativity is being attributed to me.  It's like I've stepped into another dimension.   :)  I reread this entire thread, and it's pretty clear to me that there was more negativity thrown at me than I gave.  I'm kind  of flabbergasted.  This thread was well on it's way towards negativity before I said anything.  My plea over and over was to give DK a little credit and listen to her experiences.  

Ok, moving past all of that, we are One.  We are letting our egos control, rather than seeing the big picture.  But, in the end, some arguing can be good and create a more accepting atmosphere.  I have no hard feelings towards anyone here.  I see myself in every one of them.  I've said all of the same things in the past, including the Christian stuff.   :)  The only thing I take away from all of this is the certainty that we are all walking a sure path to Oneness and every opinion has it's place in that Oneness.

I did read the whole thread too only it was hurridly.  A thought just popped into my head. Your name on here, Tempestinateapot..............
perhaps that has influenced some to feel 'stirred up'. Just a thought.

Love, Mairlyn

You must have talked with DK as I got an email from DK this morning with only this in the body of the email:


Quote:

So you know a few things about MC and the black ops units...what the hell are youd oing on a board like this?

I don't quite know what to make of it.

Love, Mairlyn ;-)

Mairlyn,

I was about to write a "whatever happened to Mair" thread, as I was worried not seeing you posting.  Welcome back.  Unfortunately, if you read this DK thread, or the Demons thread you will find that poor DK & Tempest immediately felt that this board was populated by vindictive and unkind people.  As I wrote in my last post on the Demons thread, if you go through DK's entire thread, you really don't find anything but people offering help in their own way.  Still, DK left immediately within the first page saying she should have known better.....and Tempest mentioned that Bruce's description of PUL was not found for poor DK - assertions which I don't see supported by the current posts.

Either way, I guess their message is that no one would likely be open to knowing about the government, black ops, abductions, aliens, etc. on this board.  Its funny, because knowing the posters here, I wouldn't make that assumption at all; quite the opposite.

Good to see you back,

Namaste,

Matthew

Hi dear Matthew,

It's nice to know I was missed. Sometimes it gets to be too much for me here so I leave for awhile.  I'll have to re-read everything. I have been corresponding a little more with DK so I can now see where he/she is coming from. I don't even know if DK is male or female, not that it matters.

I'm also feeling that the energies that are coming in so strongly are affecting people who normally wouldn't be negative. Those who aren't aware, don't realize what is happening.

Anyway, lets all 'lighten up'.

Love, Mairlyn

Hi all,

 Don't know exactly what to say, i've read this entire thread and want to say something, but don't know what to say.

 I see a lot of projection here, and a lot of attachment, and while i say that, i'm not trying to judge because i don't look down upon it, cause i know i do it myself.  

 Ok, forums have a tendency to become somewhat like a family after while, especially with long term regular posters.   There is nothing wrong or right about that, but certain things do tend to evolve out of that.   Sometimes a kind of "clannishness" develops, where newcomers especially with different belief systems are viewed (however unconsciously on part of certain individuals and the group as an "entity" itself) with suspicion and not quite treated the same as the old long term or frequent posters.   Its a natural human reaction.  

 While i may be wrong on this,  I don't think anyone one of us here is fully and completely Source aligned, NOT ONE OF US hence not one of us here is completely conscious to all aspects of self, let alone completely intune with all aspects of another.  

  People are very unconscious in nature, until you get really, really close to full Source awareness, there are parts of you and us, which are unconscious, which react without conscious awareness and reasoning, and i see a lot of this on this thread.  

 To me, PUL is not about being all lovey dovey and agreeing all the time, to me, its looking for the best within others and self, even while at the same time being clearly aware of what is not of Source within others and self, of what's not constructive.  

 You don't represss the awareness of what's destructive about others and the of the self of this within self.   It's important to be honest about what hinders, especially in relation to self.  I'm not saying to concentrate on the negatives, but to see them for what they are, to accept it, and then regenerate those tendencies.  

  The Family here, has both conditional and unconditional love.  I more often see conditional love, and again there is nothing wrong with that, and i do see unconditional love/acceptance here sometimes, but it is more often than not outweighed and balanced by conditional, family, group love and ATTACHMENT TO THE GROUP AND TO THE FAMILY.  

PUL is all about getting away from attachment, if you're attached, you can't love unconditionally.  It's an oxymoron.   PUL is universal, personality likes or dislikes unattached, and always completely equal to everyone all the time.   Who here really consistently lives this?   I see a lot of personality reactions, between likes and dislikes.

 Blink, i see you as a very gentle, passive, and beautiful person, very flowing, very water and air, very feminine.    But i think you are projecting to some extent and over reacting to Tempest's fire and earth like energy here.  

  You mention the heart, and i sense that you're a very heart person, which is good and beautiful, but if i've learned anything in this life, its all about balance.   Heart is meant to be balanced and merged with Mind, and Mind is meant to be balanced and merged with Heart.   Either one without the other, is not much effective or whole in and of itself.   You seem quite right brained in nature and tendency, but aren't we all meant to merge the left and right parts of the brain, isn't that what Monroe was trying to teach and what Hemi-sync is all about?   Only spiritual masters have fully done this.

 They need each other, Water and Air needs Fire and Earth, and above all feminine and masculine need each other, they are part of each other though very different in nature.  Neither one is bad nor good really, they just are, but its imbalance which really creates the problems and we're all imbalanced to a greater or lesser extent in this.

 I sense a strong masculine and left brain polarity in Tempest, and i sense that you tend to value the feminine and right brain over the masculine and left brain.    Like attracts like, and because these are quite different polarities, you are reacting to them quite strongly.   Polarization, its not black and white and just about "negative" energy, its about different modes and ways of being, and your passive, gentle flowing very Water and Air way is NOT BETTER than the way of Fire and Earth.  It's easier for you and other very water and/or air types to judge and label Tempest or those like her as being just "negative" or what not, but this doesn't get to the root of the problem.   I bet you, if i know both of your charts and compared them that the chart comparison on both ends would be highly stressed, a lot of squares and oppositions particularly between difficult energies like Mars, Moon, Saturn, Uranus, and Pluto.

 But its clear from your posts to Tempest, and from you calling to have her banned, that on some unconscious level you believe this, that your way is inherently better than hers.  

 And i'm not saying Tempest is free from any ego, or unconsciousness here either.   But it does seem like in some respects she is being more self honest and critical about herself and direct to others about her feeligns and thoughts.   Fire is good for cutting through the P.C. BS sometimes.  

 Look at the Teacher of teachers example, he occasionally said some pretty strong and cutting words to others, he was not lovey dovey Water and Air nicey nicey all the time.  He sometimes took on and became Fire personafied.  He told the Pharisees that they as a group entity were a bunch of lying hypocrites, and he being the most loving person to ever incarnated on this planet.   I bet if you had been back then, and heard his words and criticisms to them, with your personality now, you probably would not have thought him a very "loving" person.  Btw, he also quite clearly told others, especially the very unconscious Pharisees, that he was very intune.  It wasn't a "boast", or self inflation, but just a matter of stating a fact of which he was quite aware of.   He was not a shrinking voilet who said things like, "well this just my humble opinion and all..."    He knew truth because he was self honest and could see right through himself and others, and because he lived truth to the utmost degree.

 The point to me, is that we flow into whatever is most constructive for the moment.  Sometimes its best to be water, passive and flowing, gentle and breezy like air, sometimes it's best to be fiery, direct, strong outpouring and ultra masculine, sometimes its good to be earth, rooted and practical with a concentrated focusedness.
These all are meant to be merged, and all are needed at some time or another.  But this is not easy, we all tend to some over the other the majority of the time.   We all are attracted to that of which is the predominant energy within us.    We all tend to be repelled by that which is quite contrary to our natural tendencies and expressions.

  We are letting our own narrow perspectives and like attracts like tendencies to blind us to the greater, more holistic, and more expanded truths.  

 On a personal level, i tend to sympathize with Tempest, because like her i tend more to the Fire and Earth expression.  My chart shows that i strongly worked on and developed the Air and Water expressions in a pattern of other lives, and now i need to learn how to become more Fire and Earth so as to create a greater balance.  

 Who knows, maybe Tempest was too much Water and Air in other lives, and now is trying to gain a greater balance?   Maybe you Blink were too Fiery and Earthy and now are focussing a lot of Water and Air to balance?  

 This is why we should not judge, not because its so wrong to perceive critical things about others, but because we are so limited in our viewpoints about others and even self.   If you knew another person's every other lifetime and saw all of them, then you could judge and judge wisely.   And because as humans, we tend to judge with negative feelings in the background of it, again its our "unconsciousness" that only those who have achieved full self mastery and Source alignment are beyond.

 Dunno, i see a lot of people's points on this thread, i agree with a lot and i disagree with a lot.   I see a lot of beauty and self expression, which happens to be very diverse and different in nature.

 I don't see Tempest as a negative entity with the intention and motivation to cause trouble with others, but i see a directness that is for those not so direct and especially those who tend to be more subtle and heart centered, hard to deal with at times.

 How about, we worry a lot more about ourselves, and not so much about others or even the "group"?   These can take care of themselves, the real work is with ourselves and learning to regenerate our own negative tendencies.    All to often i see so many worrying so much about what others do or say, and not enough about what they themselves do or say.   I fall into this trap often myself, too much for my own liking.  

  And something we don't often consider right away, is that because of the unconscious nature of human personalities, and that we have lived many lifetimes (a percentage of which are strongly influening us now) and have interacted with many of the same people in many different ways, oft times these other relationships and their dynamics get brought into the "present" and so we find ourselves becoming irrationally and abnormally upset with another even when the situation or conditions around same aren't all that extreme in and of themselves.

 If fact, in another life, we may have been angry at this person, and even righteously so, perhaps they did us an underhanded blow, and now even if they are being honest and open, we still feel that other relationship in the background and still perceive them half subconciously that way.  

  This in itself can explain a lot of those "intuitive" type feelings we have about another which tend to be negative in nature.   There causes may originally be right and accurate, but not necessarily applicable to the current situation and relationship.

  As far as possession goes, i do not think its a black and white subject by any means.  To me, its a very real phenomenon which occasionally happens, and there may be many different reasons for it.  

  Sometimes its the like attracts like principle, sometimes it's actually the opposite energy reaction in the Earth.

 In the Earth, as as far as i know, only in the Earth, like attracts like can become turned upside down on its head, and then great light can attract great darkness.  

 There are many different kinds of consciousnesses out there, and not all have the best intentions and motivations.  I don't believe in demons in the typical Biblical sense, but i do know there are some very powerful E.T.'s out there who are not of the greatest intents.  

 Recoverer, you sort of quoted Rosiland McKnight, but you certainly left quite a bit out.  

 Her guides said that yes, there are negative beings out there which have interacted with humans directly before and will again.   Her guides hint that right now, because humanity as a whole is still somewhat at a child stage, that these destructive energies are kept in check and we are in a sense shielded from them because we cannot handle them now.

 However, her guides also say that at a later date, when Humanity as a whole as grown up, that just like every individual on an individual level, we have to meet what we have put out.   Which means, that in the future, we will not be coddled by these very devleoped and Source realized powerful Beings of Light, BUT that the destructive E.T.'s will be allowed to directly interact with us again, because its what we attracted by what we put out.  

   As children, our parents of course protect us from the world and the more difficult and challenging aspects of it, but after awhile, a good parent finally let's us go and we are exposed to the full brunt of the world and its inharmonies.  

 And that's what it is, its not evil or good vs evil, but there is some deep inharmony out there, which is weaved into the overall fabric of innate Harmony which is of Source.  

Also Recoverer, Rosie's guides talk about the reality of possession as well, and they even seem to advise nonphysical exploaration via everything from the "emotional" body and up.   They say that exploration from the etheric level, can be potentially difficult because its leaves so little energy shielding for the body.  

 The Cayce readings also talk about the reality of possession, and there are some cases in there, where it took a lot of prayer on part of others (meaning at that point, it becomes very hard for the average individual to get self clean by itself) as well as better diet, attitudes, etc. on part of the individual.  

 Its not black and white, and many here on both sides of it, have characterized it as a black and white issue, whether you and Blink, or on the opposite extreme Don.   But as Don has pointed out quite clearly, Yeshua himself obviously believed in the reality of possession and helped some folks immersed in this.  In some cases it seems it was possesssion of the self by the self, and in other cases it was quite obviously other consciousnesses being involved.  

 Now, considering the above, its quite possible and even possible that a particularly intune and mature Soul within the Earth, because they are more of an "adult", might be exposed by their guidance to the much more difficult and inharmonious parts of Creation?

   This has the potential to faciliate much inner strength and Soul growth, if it can be overcome and handled positively, yet with any such "tests" there are innate risks involved.  

 Perhaps, DK is near completion, and her hand is not being held anymore and specifcally maybe she asked before incarnating for her hand not to be held, and now is battling through some of the darker aspects of creation?


 Look, i don't believe in focussing on possession, abduction, and things like this, it does no good to constantly talk about it and to focuss on it, yet it does and can happen and for different reasons depending.  Too many love and light folks, just want to believe it doesn't exist at all either cause its too scary at a fundamental level, or it just doesn't fit into their preconceived notions.   To me, Source has very little to do with it.  Source just set up basic laws by which all of creation operates from, like the like attracts and begets like law.   All the rest is completely freewill based and a free for all, and because of that, there can be some very, very, very unsource like energies out there.

 It's just like with an individual who is trying to spiriutally grow.  As an individual, i know i have certain tendencies, beliefs, feelings, thoughts, etc. which are negative in nature and which the consistent partaking of, can and does hinder my greater spiritual growth.  

 It's not enough to  just change limiting belief systems to spiritually grow, to spiritually grow one has to live their spiritual IDEALS as well.  

  Now, i can like so many people in the world, remain relatively blind to my dark side and continually repress it because its unpleasant and difficult to deal with, and pretend that i'm a completely positive person who treats others and self with just positivity, OR i can choose to face this dark, unconscious and unregenerated side which is the much harder choice.  

 Now that takes a lot of courage and deep inner strength to do, because these parts of us (just as in creation as a whole) are very painful to look at.   I don't focus on these parts within self, but i do look them squarely in the eye and say, "look, i see you and what you are, and i accept that you are a part of me, but i'm going to regenerate and transform you."   Then you focus on the positives in self and in life, all the while catching these negative tendencies and bit by bit becoming ever more conscious and self honest in nature, and its like anything, consistent practice eventually makes perfect.  

 Eventually, if you do this enough and do it consistently enough, you end up like Yeshua, fully conscious, fully in control of self, and fully positive in tendencies, in innate intentions, and motivations.  You become Source personafied in other words, purely loving in a universal, detached but compassionate and caring manner.

 But you don't do it, by refusing to look at those parts, so many do this, and so many into spiritual stuff do this.   They tend to idealize self, often after having too much unbalanced negative focus on self, because of past abuse by others, or abuses to self, etc.    The reasons can and often are many, but many turn to spiritual beliefs to "feel good" about self.    Again, there is nothing wrong about this but if one remains unconscious to self, especially self darker side, then no real progress and growth will happen.


  This is kind of a microcosm of the larger process of the One self becoming fully aligned to Source.   We have to recogonize and become fully conscious of those aspects of creation which are not of Source, work on these consciously and consistently, always focussing on the greater positive and the fact that all is truly One.   All is One, but not all is of Source's expression.  

 There is constructive energy and there is destructive energy and only constructive is directly of Source.   Discernment and discrimination is important, just as acceptance and tolerance is as well.  Its a fine balance.

 Anyone into astrology, will tell you that from a Zodiac perspective, its the perfect balance and merging of Virgo and its opposite sign Pisces.  

  Virgo is left brain, its logical and clear discernment and discrimation, and Pisces is the vast Ocean of collective and feminine energy, its the Whole, the right brain wheras Virgo is the parts and the left brain.   Both are equally true and need to be merged simultaneously.    I particulalry relate to and understand this POLARITY because in my chart, i have Pisces South Node and Virgo North Node.  

 This is no easy nor easily understood process, if it was, there would be a lot more Yeshua  or He/She types running around.  Yet, its just as easy as we make it, but humans as a collective thought-form frequency bandwidth are kind of on the "stubborn" side to say the least.

Well, nice to see ya, J....

Yes, Justin, I have a Cancer sun, Gemini moon, with Sagittarius rising. You're good.

Also, three weeks "sober" affects me in that I can't just run out and have a smoke when I want to "detach" but I CAN meditate, which I did, and still came to the same conclusion.
I got rather dependent on various substances during my post-divorce year-long party.

Some of it was fun but now I'm ready to be calmer and more focused on love, acceptance, nurturing my own creativity, and learning to relate better to others in my life.

And you're right. It's best to focus on our own selves while lightening up....

.....each of us has as our choice to cease struggling and allow ourselves to be guided.  We do this as best we can.  None of us is perfect, but honesty does often facilitate growth, when done in a spirit of unconditional love.

best to you, blink :)

Heya :) great words Blink and an in depth post Justin. um.. going a bit off topic but it is interesting you write about Virgo and Pisces;  since I posted Raphael’s painting I have been contemplating the symbolism the great arcane artist Raphael wanted us to see.  

Virgo represents the Womb, the custodian of the hidden spiritual life.
Pisces represents the Soul in the human form or personality.

Symbolised by the manifestation into earth of the Virgin Mary and her Son Christ.
For we know, to follow the Divine script one looks at the Divine manifestation into form.

We can see how both Virgo and Pisces show us sacredness things hidden.
Virgo being the vessel for the Spirit and Pisces the Soul in the vessel of Spirit.

The macrocosm / universe representation;
Virgo represents the Earth and Pisces represents the Sun. This might symbolise the Sun traveling through Virgo the birth canal. The spirit of the sun is in the earth in a period of gestation and travails with birth pains before the actual birth is given.

The microcosm/individual  representation;
Virgo represents our bodies and Pisces represents our Soul. Our souls are enclosed within our body and goes through a period of maturing and growth before being strong enough to be released into the spirit of awakened consciousness.

The balance is the nurturing of the soul within the womb.

:) mussings.

wrote on Mar 8^th, 2007 at 8:11am:

Well, nice to see ya, J.... Yes, Justin, I have a Cancer sun, Gemini moon, with Sagittarius rising. You're good.

 Nice to see you as well.  Hmm apparently i was a bit off, since i figured that your Air energy would be more related to a more conscious symbol instead of the very sub/unconscious Moon.  Something like Mercury or Venus.   Not surprised a bit by Cancer Sun, that would have been my 1st guess, and Pisces my 2nd.

 You know, Neptune was in Sagittarius for awhile--from about 1970 to 1984 or so, and since you said you have Sagittarius Rising, i would actually be surprised if Neptune wasn't near your ASC degree.  

  If it was, the combo of Neptune and Sag energy would come out quite a bit like Pisces energy since Pisces is ruled by both Watery and feminine Neptune and a bit more Fiery and masculine Jupiter, which also rules by itself the Fire sign of Sagittarius.  
In the astrology i study, i see Planetary energy as more concentrated and powerful and more indicative than sign energy especially in older Soul's charts like yours, and if Neptune was near your ASC plus or minus 10 degrees or generally Rising in your chart, that would indicate quite the powerful Neptune energy, in fact it most likely would become your predominant energy not considering the all important Freewill factor.   In truth, even if its not, but is the closest planet to your ASC, then most likely it represents the nonphysical dimension you came into physical Earth from (thus a really strong symbol).

 Neptune is the most watery energy there is in all of astrology, Neptune is the mystic, the poet, compassionate and feeling oriented, very passive and feminine, the flowing and ever changing super sensitive to outer vibrations type energy, extremely right brained.    So with Sun in Cancer, and possibly Neptune connected to your ASC or 1st house, yes you would have a very strong predominant tendency towards that of the Water expression.  

 Hey btw, we're polar opposites in our Sun signs, i'm a Capricorn Sun.  Oppositions represent issues of balance and merging.   You're maternal, nurturing oriented and i'm paternal, teaching oriented.  Fits pretty well doesn't it, and think the only difference is that i don't dislike and feel repelled by my opposite polarity, but see it and balance between same as necessary.   That Libra Moon and Venus in the Libra decant of Aquarius in the 7th house of mine.


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Also, three weeks "sober" affects me in that I can't just run out and have a smoke when I want to "detach" but I CAN meditate, which I did, and still came to the same conclusion. I got rather dependent on various substances during my post-divorce year-long party.

 Yeah, i've heard quitting smoking can be tough and stressful.  I see Tempest as a gift and necessity, and while i'm not saying you didn't recieve valid guidance via meditation, well i know first hand that messages can become easily skewed by hidden and unconscious aspects of self which are not constructive, and/or sometimes we just unravel the message a bit off, like when we interpret dreams.  

  If you always interpret dreams completely 100 percent correctly, then yes i would say listen to this message and others completely, but if you're like me or any of us average and unrealized Souls out there, then you occasionally skew things or don't see as deeply and accurately as you might think you do.  

  I don't think anyone here, including Bruce himself, is a completely clear channel who is always getting the most expanded and completely 100 percent accurate info and perceptions.   For that to happen, you have to be completely Source realized and if you were, you would be like He/She in Monroe's last book and you would have a blazing pure White Light aura.    

 Not the pretty ultra feminine and gentle muaves, lavenders, pastel blues, some emerald and pale greens, and violets and purple that i primarily pick up from you.   Those are expanded vibrations, and quite beautiful, but infallible and the most expanded they certainly are not.   You still have personality left, and personality and ego can skew info even during and from meditation.  


Quote:

Some of it was fun but now I'm ready to be calmer and more focused on love, acceptance, nurturing my own creativity, and learning to relate better to others in my life. And you're right. It's best to focus on our own selves while lightening up.... .....each of us has as our choice to cease struggling and allow ourselves to be guided.  We do this as best we can.  None of us is perfect, but honesty does often facilitate growth, when done in a spirit of unconditional love. best to you, blink :)

  Sounds good to me.  You may not know this, but i think very highly of you and respect you a lot.  I could stand to incoperate some of your gentleness and femininity and ability to just be passive and listen.  

 But, i will speak out against a person using guidance received from meditation as an excuse to try to get someone banned.   I respect that you were open and above board about it, but why would guidance really care if Tempest got banned or not, do you think that they are as attached to Bruce Moen's Coversation forum as you are?

  I'm not saying that this site isn't important, but exactly who is here or not, isn't so much an issue (unless they are constently and obviously disrupting things), and in the grand scheme of things what's the big deal if Tempest is here or not?   You must see her as extremely destructive for that to be the case and to me, that is rather extreme and sounds like it is coming from your attachment to your family/forum more so from an exalted, emotionally objective  and unattached, and expanded guidance system.   Isn't Cancer the sign of family, of the tribe that one feels that one belongs too, and thus there is much emotional attachment to same?

Best to you as well

 Hi to you as well Caryn.   You have a very poetic way with words.

 I must say that i very much disagree with anyone using the name of Christ to degrade another person's beliefs.  

  Yeah, its ok to disagree, but to call names, judge, and degrade i don't think is ever constructive and is especially destructive when doing it in the name of Christ.  

 Sure Yeshua occasionally spoke out and even at times strongly against certain groups and certain actions, beliefs, etc. but he never did it out of negativity and judgement towards them, he was always tolerant and forgiving even when pointing out anothers illusion and destructiveness.

 All the best

Just wanted to say HI Justin. It's good to see you again. No matter what name you use, you come through as who you are.

Love ya, Mairlyn ;-)

 Hi there Mairlyn,

I actually had written a reply to you on the book section and said hi, but i never heard back from you.  

 btw, i wasn't at all "hiding" who i was, when i came back, quite early on i mentioned in a public post that i was Justin who was here before.  

 Lately, i just don't feel like signing my name.  It gets pretty redundant writing and seeing ones name all the time.  

 Love to you as well

I've been gone from here for awhile so I didn't know you were posting again til I read this thread. I haven't been to the book club pages yet.But hope to make it there soon.

Ahso:

But in what manner did Rosalind Mcknight's guides have possession in mind?

They said that if a person goes out of body, they should surround themselves with protective energy and ask for protection. This is quite a different thing than a spirit taking over a person that isn't out of body. They also state that people who exist at a higher vibrational rate don't have to worry about protection.

Considering that supposedly many of us go out of body while asleep without knowing it, I wonder how much the above actually applies.

When they speak of it elsewhere they could be speaking in terms of spirit attacment, rather than possession like people often think of possession. I state this because they speak in terms of energy body attachment rather than a spirit taking over a person's will. Attaching to a person energetically is quite a different thing than taking over a person's will. An attached spirit might try to influence a person, but this is a different thing than overtaking a person's will.

If a negative minded spirit attached itself to you and tried to get you to do negative things, do you believe it could force you to do so, or would you be able to resist? After a while, when it saw that it couldn't influence you, it would probably take off. Chances are that even if such a spirit somehow came into your presence, early on it would find that it couldn't make an attachment to you.

My guess is that Rose's guides were speaking of earthbound spirits when they spoke of spirits that attach. It is also possible they are speaking of negative thought energy that accumulates and forms an entity. They repeatedly state that negative spirits are lower vibrational rate entities. My feeling is that such spirits would be overwhelmed by light energy.

There is one other thing that I would like to bring up. In past posts you stated that Bruce Moen's story of Consciousness states that in the beginning Consciousness made the mistake of sending out probes without providing them with a means of returning to Consciousness. Some of these probes might've become evil. The universe we live in wasn't created by Consciousness directly, but by the planning intelligence (again, according to Bruce).  The planning intelligence was a disc before it became the planning intelligence. Therefore, when it comes to this universe and the other universes the planning intelligence created, I doubt that it made the same mistakes that Consciousness reportedly made and created probes without a means for them to return to it. Its way of doing things were probably more organized.

Could the lost probes Bruce speaks of find their way into this universe? Perhaps? But chances are they hang out in the universe they originated in.

Keep in mind that 9 years ago DK was a successful scientist who had no interest in New Age thought and in no way invited the evil possessing entities into her life.  Yet  she is repeatedly abducted, physically tortured, forced to deal with horrid mental "downloads,"  deprived of her capacity to feel emotion, and often forced to strive fiercely to control her will well enough to formulate her very intelligent posts.  At a certain point, the word "demon" is the only appropriate term to describe such horrid violations, regardless of one's theological preconceptions.  

In this regard, remember also that a young priest was instantly struck dead the very moment he arrived at the bedside to help a possessed victim.  This priest had just performed a successful exorcism, but not all demons are alike in power and malevolence and the priest may have been emboldened to rely on the power of his own intent in the second case.   Humble exorcists are needed who acknowledge their own inadequacy and surrounder to the power of Christ working through them.  Malachi Martin describes this horrid case in great detail.

Don

I agree with the surrendering to the power of Christ part, as oppossed to popping an attitude and thinking that you'll take something on ego against ego.

I read what Robert Bruce had to say about lower realm beings in his Astral Dynamics this past weekend, and I must state that I didn't feel intimidated by what he shared. But the power doesn't come from me. It comes from God and Christ. Without them I'd just be a confused jumble of thoughts.


Berserk wrote on Mar 8^th, 2007 at 6:41pm:

Keep in mind that 9 years ago DK was a successful scientist who had no interest in New Age thought and in no way invited the evil possessing entities into her life.  Yet  she is repeatedly abducted, phsyically tortured, forced to deal with horrid mental "downloads,"  deprived of her capacity to feel emotion, and often forced to strive fiercely to control her will well enough to formulate her very intelligent posts.  At a certain point, the word "domon" is the only appropriate term to describe such horrid violations, regardless of one's theological preconceptions.   In this regard, remember also that a young priest was instantly struck dead the very moment he arrived at the bedside to help a possessed victim.  This priest had just performed a successful exorcism, but not all demons are alike in power and malevolence and the priest may have been emboldened to rely on the power of his own intent in the second case.   Humble exorcists are needed who acknowledge their own inadequacy and surrounder to the power of Christ working through them.  Malachi Martin describes this horrid case in great detail. Don Don

 Hi Mairlyn,

Yeah i figured you probably had gone away and just hadn't seen my reply to you.   Completely understand.

 It's good to hear from you, and thank you for the warm re-welcome.  

recoverer wrote on Mar 8^th, 2007 at 6:11pm:

Ahso: But in what manner did Rosalind Mcknight's guides have possession in mind? They said that if a person goes out of body, they should surround themselves with protective energy and ask for protection. This is quite a different thing than a spirit taking over a person that isn't out of body. They also state that people who exist at a higher vibrational rate don't have to worry about protection.

 Yeah, you're totally right, her guides were speaking in the context of going out of body.

  If one studies and understands holistic health, then one might come to the conclusions that i have through studies into same.   There are many ways, even through diet, lack of right exercise, becoming over acid, severe spinal misalignments and pinched nerves etc. that one can weaken their etheric energy shields or other energy systems connected to the body forces, which can cause problems.  Most often these if consistent and extreme, lead to dis-ease or even disease, but with a innately psychically sensitive person, it can lead to being influenced by other consciousnesses.  



Quote:

Considering that supposedly many of us go out of body while asleep without knowing it, I wonder how much the above actually applies.

 So, Rosie's guides were just blowing smoke up our arses?  Somehow i doubt that.   Consider this then, perhaps unlike with a person trying to consciously go out of body, or doing so while conscious...perhaps when we fall asleep we more automatically slip into higher gears within the nonphysical than in those situations?

 Perhaps we rarely "leave" via the etheric body, like some do while exploring consciously.   My sense is that most when falling asleep and dreaming, most leave behind their etheric shields and so it's not a problem or issue.

 Notice that classic OBE's via the etheric tend to feel extremely, extremely "real" and physical in nature, and many times dreams while even quite vivid at times, have a more surreal and subtle sense to them?    This is because we are moving via our emotional bodies and "higher", or more aptly faster vibrationally.   The energies get less and less physical in nature as the vibration speeds up, thus seeming less and less overtly "real" to a conscious mind which is usually so focused on C1.


Quote:

When they speak of it elsewhere they could be speaking in terms of spirit attacment, rather than possession like people often think of possession. I state this because they speak in terms of energy body attachment rather than a spirit taking over a person's will. Attaching to a person energetically is quite a different thing than taking over a person's will. An attached spirit might try to influence a person, but this is a different thing than overtaking a person's will.

True enough, but what is the difference.  I've always understood "possession" to be more about an outside entity influencing ones mind which is both physical and nonphysical, and more so ones body.   Since the mind is connected to the body, and there is kind of two way interface between these, it can get tricky understandign what exactly is being affected.  

  Now the spiritual Will of an entity, this is a bit different, though yet again connected to the mind, and to the body.    Can another entity invade my energy space and rearrange my own unique and invidividual vibrational patterns and turn me into something i'm not?    I doubt it, but if its influening my mind and body, then to me, that's more than enough difficulty and a problem as it is.


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If a negative minded spirit attached itself to you and tried to get you to do negative things, do you believe it could force you to do so, or would you be able to resist? After a while, when it saw that it couldn't influence you, it would probably take off. Chances are that even if such a spirit somehow came into your presence, early on it would find that it couldn't make an attachment to you.

 Dunno, i guess it depends.  If it is a from a human origin, i wouldn't be too worried at all.  Humans notoriously are pretty undeveloped in the M-band manipulation abilities and capacities.  Because of the way we have evolved, its not until a human personality becomes very spiritually developed (USUALLY!) that they can greatly manipulate the M-band field.  

 Hmm, a being who evolved in another system, who has much greater and conscious abilitiy to control and manipulate the M-band field with their very powerful minds?

 Yeah, i might have some difficulty in such a situation, but since i'm still relatively a "child" yet, my hand is being somewhat held in that sense, and i'm protected.


Quote:

My guess is that Rose's guides were speaking of earthbound spirits when they spoke of spirits that attach. It is also possible they are speaking of negative thought energy that accumulates and forms an entity. They repeatedly state that negative spirits are lower vibrational rate entities. My feeling is that such spirits would be overwhelmed by light energy.

 In the Earth plane, things are little more skewed than in the nonphysical dimensions.  In the more purely nonphysical, you could not have one entity negatively influencing another entities mind energies, though maybe you could with two slower vibrational consciousnesses.   Because of the difference in vibrational rate between a more light filled consciousness and one who has shut out the light, there would be no "meeting" so to speak, they wouldn't exist in the same "space".  

 In the Earth plane, intense light attracts intense lack of light.  You have only to look at the many spiritual guides and teachers who have incarnated over the long ages to see this phenomena.   The most intensely and purely light filled ones, often get great negative energy attracted to them and many of these end up dying at the hands of the lack of light consciousnesses.  The ones who so deeply lack light within self, hunger for it on some level, but instead of doing that which would fill themselves up with light, they try to steal or lesson the light within the other.  Of course, this usually doesn't work the way they hope, SO the next best thing is to shut them up as much as they can.

 Hence Yeshua and the Pharisess and other priests of his day, who when they looked at Yeshua, only saw red and so irrationally too.   They hated him with a passion that you and i could probably never understand, there was no logical reasoning behind it whatsoever, it was pure irrationality and negativity period.  

  The same can happen on more subtle levels with a physically incarnate personality, and a nonphysical consciousness who is still connected to the physical energies.

  Like you, i do believe that often, in some way they are "let in" on some level (and rarely consciously), but not always.   Its no so black and white Albert, there are more mysteries in heaven and earth than contained within your philosophies.  


Quote:

There is one other thing that I would like to bring up. In past posts you stated that Bruce Moen's story of Consciousness states that in the beginning Consciousness made the mistake of sending out probes without providing them with a means of returning to Consciousness. Some of these probes might've become evil. The universe we live in wasn't created by Consciousness directly, but by the planning intelligence (again, according to Bruce).  The planning intelligence was a disc before it became the planning intelligence. Therefore, when it comes to this universe and the other universes the planning intelligence created, I doubt that it made the same mistakes that Consciousness reportedly made and created probes without a means for them to return to it. Its way of doing things were probably more organized.

 Was it a mistake, error, or accident?  Dunno personally, to me it seems a little bit of chaos is almost necessary in creation, but this is more a incoherent and unformed feeling than a specific thought out logical thought.  I suppose things could have happened differently, again i really don't know, we are going into some very deep waters in this.  Maybe when i'm consciously one with Source, i will more fully understand or maybe not.

  I wouldn't use the term "evil", but rather they just don't know better and its not their fault.  Evil to me, implies a more conscious choice, like "i'm going to be this way", kind of thing.  

  Oh i completely agree, i believe that once the P.I. spark returned home completed, it became a "model" in a sense, for Consciousness and it to co-create other sparks.   I believe the first thing they did together, was to create Retriever sparks who while they had freewill like every other Spark, they were in a sense nudged or filled with the intention of going out to rescue these lost sparks.   Or perhaps more accurately, they were given a more pure dose of love energy as their base, and love innately desires and intends this, with P.I. always in a sense leading the way, the main director of the rescue mission.  

  That's exactly the role that Cayce's guides assign to the Total self of which Yeshua is part of.  And unlike many of us, he and his Total self has remained more true and consistent in this rescue mission.   The readings hint that he had a few lives where he had a bit of selfishness, and wasn't fully attuned to the Father (the active creative expanding aspect of Source), but more than not he has been a force for good and helpfullness throughout his existence.    Amazing Soul record in other words, and there truly is none like it in the sheer and consistent purity.


Quote:

Could the lost probes Bruce speaks of find their way into this universe? Perhaps? But chances are they hang out in the universe they originated in.

 Sure they could.   And why would you say the last part?   While love energy might not be part of their base originally, no doubt they have other attributes of the Creator and a big one of those is curiosity and its reasonable to assume that along with freewill, they may have curiosity as well.  

 They may be scattered across the universes for all we know, but it seems like Earth in particular has attracted a greater percentage of these lost ones.   My hunch is, if you look at many other worlds and systems out there, Earth kind of has a rather unique pattern and "history" (at least this is what my intution whispers to me, and i believe its the reason why you, me, and a percentage of others "came here" originally, to help out in this rescue mission in battleground Earth).  

 Why?   Perhaps because a greater percentage of these lost ones became attracted to this discordant, inharmonious, slow vibrating, rough and tumble consciousness bandwith known as physical Earth?

  Like attracts like, no?  This goes for them as well, whatever their origins, all energy and consciousnesses operate according to this basic fundamental energy law or natural, innate, and automatic reaction.  

  Others in other systems, because of their different evolution and greater M-Band manipulation capabilities have destroyed other worlds, and became a blot upon Creation until they were forcibly stopped by others intune with Source.   Normally, Light beings, the "federation" as known by some, is pretty laid back and live and let live, but there have been times when force has become necesssary to the greater collective health of all involved.  Some of these then were attracted into the Earth system, almost as renegades in a sense and have tried the same destructive games.  

 Again, just my intutiion and not necessarily accurate or true at all.

 In any case, it doesn't do much good to focus on this stuff, overall love is the most powerful energy in the Universe, cause its the most objectively real energy, because its directly of Source nature and built into most of creation.

  And ultimately, there is nothing to fear whatsoever.   Yet, bad and difficult things happen to good people and there are even accidents (unplanned stuff) happen in creation (as Cayce's guides once cryptically said), and it seems like this is the case with D.K. here.  Dunno ultimately, but it was an interesting conversation.

 Oh btw, as far as Bruce and the lost sparks thing goes, that is purely my interpretation of Bruce's info.   He does not go into the stuff that i've talked about, and i have no idea of what he believes about this stuff regarding the lost sparks he talked about.   I don't want people to believe that he promotes this belief, when he really hasn't.   Purely my intuition and interpretation which is related to his info.   Before i read Bruce's 4th book, i had already had come to a very similar "vision" or concept of creation as he outlined in his book though, i was very excited to find someone with such a similar perspective though.  It was more of a aha confirmation type thing, rather than purely "new" information to me.

 But, i'm really not all that overtly and obviously psychic in the more stereotypical sense of the word.  

Justin I will defend Christ's name forever.  The posts I have replied to in this regard have been nothing short of blashemous and the people who have demeaned the Name of Christ in these posts should take a very good look inside themselves.  But this isn't about Christ is it Justin, because you haven't picked up on the blashemy have you? It is kind of you to stick up for your friend and I appreciate honest comment but when it comes to swaying emotions in dream world I have no time and will be firm in my faith.  There is only one guide and that is Christ.  

I'm typing out Pisces and post this so long;

"The divinity of Pisces is such that those strong in this sign have a constant aching yearning, an intense urge, to merge the soul entirely and completely with the soul of others, to form one universal spiritual union.  Pisceans, or those truly under the Neptune light, experience spirituality; thus they have the faculty and forte to commune and to unite with others on the mental and psychic planes.  The purer the Piscean, the more profound the communion and union with the feelings and thoughts of people and places and, yes, with the planet itself!

In this mergence with others on Earth and on the invisible planes, there lies danger and often damage, for if the Piscean soul is not positively endowed with the strong factor of a developed mind, if it is still tainted with atavistic clairvoyance – and these today are still legion – the risk of obsession by spirit controls and so-called guides, is great, and these forces are evil.  One must not remain negatively psychic.  So many, too many, born in or under this sign, or with the Moon in Pisces, are the victims of invisible spirits and of mediumism.  Then the sense of hearing, which is ruled by it, is perverted to undesirable hearing of what astral entities convey".

.. and Justin .. you say (Yeshua? how trendy) .. Jesus Christ came in the name of love, indeed he did, I honour this by defending his name for his love is not to be taken for granted.

Have a great day.

augoeideian wrote on Mar 9^th, 2007 at 3:34am:

Justin I will defend Christ's name forever.  The posts I have replied to in this regard have been nothing short of blashemous and the people who have demeaned the Name of Christ in these posts should take a very good look inside themselves.  But this isn't about Christ is it Justin, because you haven't picked up on the blashemy have you? It is kind of you to stick up for your friend and I appreciate honest comment but when it comes to swaying emotions in dream world I have no time and will be firm in my faith.  There is only one guide and that is Christ.   I'm typing out Pisces and post this so long; "The divinity of Pisces is such that those strong in this sign have a constant aching yearning, an intense urge, to merge the soul entirely and completely with the soul of others, to form one universal spiritual union.  Pisceans, or those truly under the Neptune light, experience spirituality; thus they have the faculty and forte to commune and to unite with others on the mental and psychic planes.  The purer the Piscean, the more profound the communion and union with the feelings and thoughts of people and places and, yes, with the planet itself! In this mergence with others on Earth and on the invisible planes, there lies danger and often damage, for if the Piscean soul is not positively endowed with the strong factor of a developed mind, if it is still tainted with atavistic clairvoyance – and these today are still legion – the risk of obsession by spirit controls and so-called guides, is great, and these forces are evil.  One must not remain negatively psychic.  So many, too many, born in or under this sign, or with the Moon in Pisces, are the victims of invisible spirits and of mediumism.  Then the sense of hearing, which is ruled by it, is perverted to undesirable hearing of what astral entities convey". .. and Justin .. you say (Yeshua? how trendy) .. Jesus Christ came in the name of love, indeed he did, I honour this by defending his name for his love is not to be taken for granted. Have a great day.

 Hi Caryn, i respect your passion and devotion to Christ, and its not all that dissimilar to my own.   I can't tell you how much i love this being and how grateful to it i am, he is and always has been my teacher, just as he as been a teacher and guide to many throughout the ages.

 But realistically and ultimately, i really don't think Christ needs to be defended by you or anyone and in fact, this has happened too much and too extremely in the past, and is part of the reason of why Christianity and anything remotely connected to same has left such a bad taste in many people's mouths.   It has been used and abused by those far from Christ for so long...

 I really cannot even begin to "blame" people for having these kinds of feelings.   I'm lucky in the sense that i was raised in an open atmosphere during childhood, and my mom didn't push her beliefs on me.   I had no childhood religion but was drawn to Yeshua and his teachings independantly of any group, friends, teachings, or religious thought, as a moth is drawn to a flame.

 What i think is being defended here, is more so one's own belief system, and hence ego attachment to same.   We all have ego, and we all sometimes feel a need to defend our beliefs and ways of thinking.  We're all overattached to our beliefs and preconceived ideas, perceptions.

 Calling Jesus, Yeshua, is trendy?   I personally know very, very few people who call Jesus Yeshua.   I started calling him Yeshua way before any hollywood movies like the Passion or the DaVinci Code came out.   It's been many years since i started calling him and thinking of him like that, it after all was his real name in the earth when he was still public.  

  I believe i was associated with him in that life, nothing special at all, just one of the many who listened to and followed his words.   I was more or less a "gentile" then, and wasn't very accepted by the closer crowd of more pure Hebrews around him, such as the 12 disciples.   They thought i was too much of a Greek, hence too involved with romance and sexual affairs.  And truthfully, i or that other self was.

  My biological father (whom wasn't really part of my childhood much at all), i found out later on in life, also has always had a deep love of Yeshua and his teachings outside of religion, and has had many dreams over the years about Yeshua and that time period, such as being a Jew and eating passover lamb, etc.  Since i know we (my father and i) have a karmic soul history together, its not unreasonable to assume that we were associated in that life as well.  

 My dad is a musician, and wrote a very powerful song about Yeshua, something like "An arrow into the heart of the Sun", and wrote another song called "in the garden" talking about Yeshua's pain, and especially his loneliness before he fully overcame his personality and ego, especially in relation to his friends whom he had always faithfully supported and been there for, and they abandoned him in his greatest hour of need and compansionship.    

  My brother Michael as well follows a similar pattern, came to a deep belief in and love of Yeshua and his teachings independant of any religious, or outside influence such as friends, groups, parental, etc.  

 As regards your words to me, especially concerning me calling Yeshua as being "trendy", they sound rather judgmental.  

  Be aware of Saturn in Leo opposing your Aquarius energies.   Remember what He said to Peter, and it follows for you as well, "Get thee behind me Saturn", Saturn is that force which tests and would mislead us, it strengthens our ego and materialistic tendencies.  

  I've been under quite a bout of this lately myself, anyone with strong placements in Leo and/or Aquarius has, its a very difficult time for us, and its easy to let our lower selves get the best of us during this period, which unfortunately i have a lot lately in the last year or so.     I have Leo Rising 16 degrees and Venus in Aquarius at 21 degrees, and right now Saturn is at about 20/21 degrees Leo.

 And making it more difficult, is the illusionary Neptune who right now is at about 20 degrees Aquarius and combative, reactionary, and angry quick trigger Mars who is also in Aquarius now, and the combo with Saturn in Leo is difficult to deal with for those of the Leo--Aquarius polarity especially (also hard for those with strong Taurus--Scorpio polarity too).   Neptune can easily mask certain issues, and facilitate people having rose colored glasses in relation to self and/or to others.  Mars excites to over passioned and reactionary responses, wrath, uncontrolled anger, etc.

 Btw, i like your little article on Pisces, it is well written and i agree with much of it.

In Peace, with much respect to you    

lol Justin nice reply  :)

Ahso:

All I can do is basically restate what I've already written. If you allow yourself to connect with divine will and live accordingly, you should be okay. If you don't and try to do an ego against ego thing, the possibility of running into ego energy that is stronger than your energy exists. They might even do an Akido** kind of thing, and try to use some of your energy against you.

You're right when you say some of your thoughts don't 100% represent what Bruce believes. On a past post about demons he wrote that demons are nothing but a bunch of superstitious nonsense.  He wrote this even though he wrote what he wrote about lost probes. He wrote that when it comes to this planet nothing more is involved than earthbound spirits. He wrote that some of these earthbound spirits look for people who buy into the demon con.


**I don't believe this is the usage of energy the founder of Akido had in mind.

recoverer wrote on Mar 9^th, 2007 at 1:16pm:

Ahso: All I can do is basically restate what I've already written. If you allow yourself to connect with divine will and live accordingly, you should be okay. If you don't and try to do an ego against ego thing, the possibility of running into ego energy that is stronger than your energy exists. They might even do an Akido** kind of thing, and try to use some of your energy against you.

 I do basically agree with you Recoverer, but again, to me its not so black and white.  

 There is an interesting Cayce reading about Moses, "For there has been the continued battle with those forces as Michael (the Archangel) fought with over the body of Moses.  He that leads, or would direct, is continually beset by the forces that would undermine."  2897-4

 I, like D.K. and apparently Moses, have had some personal experience with this as well.

 Also what you are not considering, and what you seem to be mostly reasoning from as far as i can tell, is from people's conscious minds and choices.    So, i'm a spiritual student on a spiritual path, i believe in light, love, and the Oneness of force, i believe love is the most powerful energy in the universe.  

 I try to live my beliefs, and for the most part i'm a pretty positive person, etc. etc.  BUT there is so much more to me and you than what our conscious mind and choices represents.   In you or me, about 1/10 of us is purely conscious depending on our degree of spiritual developement, the rest is unconscious.  Only those fully enlightened are fully conscious.   Are you, am i, is Bruce, is anyone here under this condition?

  There is negativity and negative patterns within us, that we aren't even fully aware of, there is much more to the Universe that we know of consciously.   It is arrogant to believe otherwise.   Like i said, i do basically agree with you, and in most cases that is probably the case, but in all, how the hell could i, you, or anyone here with limited knowledge and perception say for sure?   Perhaps because some want to believe in certain things?


Quote:

You're right when you say some of your thoughts don't 100% represent what Bruce believes. On a past post about demons he wrote that demons are nothing but a bunch of superstitious nonsense.  He wrote this even though he wrote what he wrote about lost probes. He wrote that when it comes to this planet nothing more is involved than earthbound spirits. He wrote that some of these earthbound spirits look for people who buy into the demon con.

Grasping for straws here?   Well i would agree with Bruce on this specific usage of words.  I don't believe in "demons" and never said anything about demons and demonic possession.   I do believe that there are disincarnate human consciousnesses which sometimes try to cause trouble, but to me, these are nothing to worry about for the most part, except to those who are really weak in mind, morals, and/or body forces and/or who let them in through undue fear, concentration on dark forces,  too much alcohol or drugs,  etc.  

 What i do believe, is that there are indeeed some very powerful and dark E.T. energies out there, and occasionally they do and have had caused problems for humans.   We are protected from these here in Earth speaking of humanity as a whole being mostly at the child stage and because we need our collective hands to be held.

 But again, some very developed individuals for whatever reason, they ask for their hands to not be held anymore or it is just an automatic condition of their development, and when that happens, there can be some difficult and challenging things that can be experienced.  Perhaps like with what Cayce's guides said about Moses who was all in all a rather spiritually intune and powerful person though not perfected like Yeshua.  Are you spiritually beyond Moses?   Or like Yeshua, have you ever cast out "unclean" spirits?

 In any case, with all due respect to Bruce and to you as well, neither of you (nor i) knows everything.   Bruce's words are not the final words on the subject, and there are things even he isn't aware of.   There are beings both in the Earth and out of who are much more spiritually developed and aware/knowledgable than he.  I think he would probably definitely agree with this assessment, i think he is humble enough to consider that.

  I don't put you, or Bruce (again, neither my own as well), and both of your conscious awareness and depth of knowledge in the same category as Rosies or Cayce's guides.   I'm just barely humble enough to realize that there may be more going on that meets the eye at first, that much is possible in this Universe of freewill, and that the Universe and creation is much bigger than my limited conceptions of it, hence why i do listen to those whom i feel have a much greater conscious awareness of certain factors, like Rosie's guides or Cayce's guides for example.  

 Nor, unlike you, i do not automatically shoot down the beliefs and experiences of those like D.K. because i lack experience and/or knowledge in this area.  Your tone to her was a bit condescending and patronizing from the get go.

  Look at Rosie's guides for a moment, they obviously say that there are some powerful and intelligent, but not spiritually or lovingly developed E.T. groups out there, and that in the future its probable that they will cause some problems for humans as a whole.  

 But, that's speaking of humanity as a whole, and by that point, humanity will not be at the child stage anymore and we won't have our hands held, and we will have to deal with what we attracted.   But do you know for a fact, that all individuals within the Earth have not ever had problems with these?

  They are not discarnate humans who have little M-band control capacity, these are powerful and very intelligent minds who have evolved quite differently, and they do not have the best of intentions when it comes to humans or to the rest of creation.   Should anyone be scared because of this?   No, absolutely not, if you're not ready for them, then you will be protected by outside forces and even very spiritually developed folks like Moses of course receive help as well, and in his case the Archangel Michael was helping him and repelling those forces which would beset, undermine, an otherwise spiritually intune and positive person.  

Btw, there are concepts in say Rosies books, of which Bruce talks very little about, or even seems to disagree with at times.   For example, Rosie's guide Ah So and others, talk about the importance of diet, not eating too much meat, etc.

 Yet Bruce is known to have almost derided beliefs in being vegetarian, and the importance in not filling oneself up with meat.  He has basically said, its no big deal.  Hmm, wonder if he is a meat eater or not, and attached to same at all?   Just like Monroe was overly attached to his big juicy burgers that he loved so much and couldn't seem to give up.   Just like Edgar not being able to give up "eating so much like a pig" and unhealthily which his own source occasionally chided him about.  

 If i have to go with Bruce, or Ah So, i'm gonna go with Ah So 9 out of 10 times at least of being the more aware, accurate, and knowledgable source of info, and i highly, highly respect Bruce.   Bruce may even be at a similar spiritual attunement as Ah So spiritually speaking, but Bruce is a physical personality immersed within the physical and the physical, emotions, and ego tends to distort, it is the very place of distortion and limited perception.    And because of the sheer discordance and "loudness" of physical Earth energies, we all when we come in need to narrow our frequency reception band down a lot until we become fully Source realized, in order to just deal with these energies, and this of course limits our perceptions quite a bit.  Life here, is a gradual process of opening up ever more bit by bit.

Ahso:

I like a lot of things Rosie's Ahso says, but until find something for myself I can't say that it is true. In Cosmic Journey's Ahso states that a soul has to go through only a few incarnations; in Soul Journey's he states a soul has to go through "thousands" of incarnations.  When he said the later he also stated that past incarnations don't continue to exist in the manner people sometimes experience, they experience akashic records.  I'm not certain, but there might be some contradiction here.

I've found that Rosie's books and Bruce's books do have some differing themes.

There might be some negative minded aliens that know how to work with energy, but I do not believe they can mess with a person's soul, even if the friendly aliens who according to Rosie's books look out for us, allowed them to do so. Unless they open themselves to love and therefore higher vibrational rates, I don't see how they can mess with things at the soul level. Inserting thoughts into a person's mind isn't the same thing.

I agree that people have negative thought patterns that they don't often know about. Because of the path I'm on these thought patterns have been revealed to me so I can deal with them.  My guidance has helped me find that these patterns don't represent who I truly am, and I do have a choice to live according to that which is in line with divine will, rather than according to what lower ego based thought patterns have to say.

recoverer wrote on Mar 9^th, 2007 at 3:16pm:

Ahso: I like a lot of things Rosie's Ahso says, but until find something for myself I can't say that it is true.

  Well i can sort of understand that sentiment, but i'm sure you believe in some things of which you have no proof or direct personal experience of?   I know i do at least.  I don't believe i have to personally experience something to know its true or not.  But i do have some experience with this particular subject of which i don't want to go too much into, because i don't want to focus on it specifically.  I felt some rather dark things about a particular E.T. 'race' and i kind of got inside the head of one of their "leaders" and it wasn't pretty and i don't want to go there again.  There is just enough light in this being to keep it "alive" and an invidividual co-herent consciousness, but the depth of darkness and inharmony was something i have never, ever felt before, not even when tuning into a human serial killer and their sickness.    

 I actually started writing a novel based on a dream of my Twin Soul/fiance, it was a dream about a future life wherein we were at the point that Rosies guides had shown her in the Akashic about a probable future war.   Becky was a incarnaed human, and i showed up later as a helpful "E.T."    

  When i started to write this book, it was like i was getting automatic downloads about this stuff, and at one point i started to delve into the Soul history of one of these dark but very powerful E.T. leader.   Not long after this, or just generally around the same time or so, i had a visit in-physical from an E.T. while i was in sleep paralysis.   I was inbetwen physical and etheric state of consciousness, and this being was examining me through and through via a mind process.   At least, i hope it was just sleep paralysis and not it keeping me paralyzed via mind/energy manipulation.


Quote:

In Cosmic Journey's Ahso states that a soul has to go through only a few incarnations; in Soul Journey's he states a soul has to go through "thousands" of incarnations.  When he said the later he also stated that past incarnations don't continue to exist in the manner people sometimes experience, they experience akashic records.  I'm not certain, but there might be some contradiction here.

 I have both books and am quite familiar with them and their concepts.  I have a pretty good memory about things i'm deeply interested in, and i don't remember this contradiction you are talking about.

  Perhaps when you have some time, you could more specifically point out the above words, concepts, etc?

  My understanding and overview of what Rosie's guides say, is that every Soul is unique, but that there are many Total selves which have the innate potential of many, many, many lifetimes within their collective energies as a Total self, or what Rosies' guides call a "Light being".  

  In some or many of these, these parts within the greater, collective self get projected out into space/time to experience the physical, as a individual entity and personality just as you or i now.  

 Not all Total selves choose to actually project all these parts of itself out into actual physical energies, but these remain more so "waves of probability" in a sense, within the Akashic or collective Soul energies of self.  

 We right now, have both attributes of a particle and of a wave.

 But, her guides, both Ah So and Radiant Lady, say that basically physical lifetimes as we perceive them, are "illusions of the Soul" and that the physical itself is not ultimatley real because its a projection or patterned reflection of what which is eternal and real--consciousness.

 Neither of these books say there are any "rules" or what not regarding incarnation.  There are no specific numbers of incarnations, but just ranges of the average.   It is not specifically said to my knowledge, but one can logically assume that the number of actual projected lifetimes within the Earth before complete graduation can vary a lot between each different Total self, but that there also may be averages.  

 It seems to me and i sense that many Total selves here, have had many projected lifetimes.  Probably the majority, but of course i'm sure the specific numbers may vary here and there.    


Quote:

I've found that Rosie's books and Bruce's books do have some differing themes.

 Yeah, to some extent.   Mostly i see a lot of agreement between many of the more major and general concepts.   Bruce's teachings about a "Disk" are no different really than Ah So's teachings about a Light being.

 But i have noticed a difference between a philosophy found in the Monroe/Moen info and teachings, and between Rosies and Cayce's teachings.    The former, seem to say that physical lifetimes and this whole incarnation thing was somehow a necessity or advantage in the spiritual evolution of the Disk/I-There/Souls.  

 The Cayce and Rosiland guides info, suggest that it wasn't ever necessary or important, an advantage, etc. to begin with, but once the process was begun on behalf of individual Total selves, that it had to be worked through until full attunement to Source again.  

  These seem to hint that it was the result of Freewill choice on part of some Souls to separate from the Creator to become Gods of their own but without working through and with Source and its ways.  

 Cayce's guides call it spiritual "error" on part of some of us originally.  His source said that a group of these essentially created what we now know of as the physical energies, and that Retriever Souls came in to help with the situation but many of them became stuck as well as the more innately rebellious ones who started this all.


Quote:

There might be some negative minded aliens that know how to work with energy, but I do not believe they can mess with a person's soul, even if the friendly aliens who according to Rosie's books look out for us, allowed them to do so. Unless they open themselves to love and therefore higher vibrational rates, I don't see how they can mess with things at the soul level. Inserting thoughts into a person's mind isn't the same thing.

 Did you not read what i wrote earlier?   I in a sense agree and agreed with you.   But, what exactly is a Soul, what exactly is Mind, what exactly is the body, personality, and physical forces?   Where does one end and the other begin?  

 These are all different, but they are all connected and interweave and blend in with one another.   Affect one, you affect the other.   The Soul ultimately cannot be directly harmed and controlled by another being, that i do agree with.   The Creator wisely made it so.

 However we as physical personalities are much, much more complex than that, there are many systems of energies that go to make up you or i, physical personalities for example.   This is what we are talking about!  Get the right concept and keep it in perspective, don't get so theoretical and intellectual about it.   If it happened to you instead of D.K., you would not be so nonchalent about it all.

We are not talking about a Soul floating around in the nonphysical surrounded by those of like energies/wavelengths, we are talking about incarnate humans whose lives, emotions, physical body, etc. can be negatively affected and in a quite a damaging way.   Harm is harm, suffering is suffering, no matter where exactly it is directed, and our personalities are connected to our Soul force.  

 Do you not think that this has its influence on the Soul?   Cayce's guides once said, that the carnal and destructive actions, thoughts, etc. of a physical person become the very scars on the Soul--hence the Soul is indirectly but negatively influenced.   These interprenetrate each other, one affects the other, its all relative.  

 I completely agree, another consciousness cannot blast apart the very fabric of our consciousness and being, nor can our pure Soul force become an automaton of others.  We can choose and lack light so much, that we ourselves can break down the coherent vibrational pattersn of our consciousness and thus become "non entities" in the individual, conscious sense, but others cannot do that to us.  But this is not what we are talking about here, we are talking about examples like D.K. has shared and which other people have gone through.  

 Ok, let me ask you this to put it in perspective.   Say you and your guides, council, etc. come up with a Life plan for you.   This life plan does not originally involve being physically tortured by another person.

  Another person goes way off their life plan and decides to capture and torture you, on a spiritual level, your guidance might try as hard as hell to keep you out of this situation once they see the possibility of it, but say you're not as consciously in touch with guidance, etc., and ignore the signs or what not.

 Accidents occasionally happen, just as they have happened within the very forces of Creation itself--most is order and harmony, but not all.    So, you're down there in the deep dark basement having your body and psyche torn apart bit by bit, until you as a personality and mind operating within same, become naught but a babbling and completely fractured and insane being because of the damage you have been through.  

 Sure, your Soul isn't directly being damaged or controlled, but Jesus H. Christ, what good does that do you in the meantime?   And, after you die, it might take quite awhile for you, the real you--your Soul/consciousness to recover from this traumatic experience, heck normally you might not have become "stuck" after dieing, but because of what happened and what was forced onto you by another who did not respect the freewill of you or others, you do become stuck and for quite awhile from a linear time perspective, all the while still suffering.  

 It's suffering we are talking about, and there are many ways to suffer, and believe it or not, there are beings and consciousnesses out there who get off on others suffering.  Sick yeah i know, completely agree, God how i wish all of Creation was consciously love and light, and we all knew our Oneness with each other, but since Freewill is involved, this is not the case.  


Quote:

I agree that people have negative thought patterns that they don't often know about. Because of the path I'm on these thought patterns have been revealed to me so I can deal with them.  My guidance has helped me find that these patterns don't represent who I truly am, and I do have a choice to live according to that which is in line with divine will, rather than according to what lower ego based thought patterns have to say.

 I agree, and good luck on that process not that you need any good luck in that.   My sense of you, is that you are a wise and perceptive man beyond the average, but with tendencies to being a little stubborn in some respects.

I wonder if DK has read all these posts?  I read about 90% and wow, it has really gone way off the topic posted.
I noticed that nobody has considered the fact that a lot of the things described by DK in his/her post are all symptoms of Paranoid Schizophrenia. Paranoid delusions, depersonalization, hallucinations.
I believe that DK truly believes he/she is being attacked and possesed by demons or bad aliens.
I myself have a mental illness and I can tell you from personal experience that I did not choose to have the delusions and severe feelings of pain and suffering that come with a psychotic episode. It was and is not a matter of my will. It turns out all I have is a chemical imbalance. When I take my meds I am as normal as anybody. (pretty much) When I think I am all better and I don't need this artificial medicine crap anymore I tend to go back into delusional thinking and drift from reality. My life is 1000000% better when I take my meds for the PHYSICAL DISEASE I have. Just like a person suffering from thyroid or endocrine disorder must take medicine (hormones, etc) to restore balance or suffer depression and a myriad of other painful symptoms I must take medicine to restore my physical balance.

I am not saying this to discount or minimize anything you said in your initial 2 posts DK. I truly think you need to see somebody for medical help. This is the best possible advice I can give you. I feel for you in your suffering and can totally relate with your pain, please seek medical attention.

If after seeking medical attention and following a prescribed treatment plan and if you find you are still being possessed or have trouble with the neg. aliens then you have lost nothing and at least you ruled out a physical cause for your suffering.

With love,

Timothy