Are they just projections of our fears?? I just don't want to be wrong thinking  that these things don't exist and than "Bam" I'm getting tortured by these ungodly things in the afterlife... I hope to God they don't exist.. Also, I don't get how they can hurt you if they are just projections of our fears??? I'm just alittle confused on Bruce's theory.. Because some near death experiences I have read where people didn't even believe in hell, or the devil and they went there and met this evil character... Also, I have read about people getting tortured about demons, which scares the s*** out of me!! The only reason I'm scared about that because, what if I have already created demons, since I am scared of them now...  Hopefully, the law of attraction wipes that all out and I end up with good people like myself.. Otherwise my friends I would choose oblivion for myself...

Let me preface my remarks by reassuring posters of my conviction that astral exploration motivated by unselfish concerns is usually very safe and I am curently trying to develop an OBE talent. That said, I don't know anyone who has read the possession case histories in Malachi Martin's "Hostage to the Devil" without being convinced of the reality of supernatural evil.  Those on this site who scoff at the demonic dishonestly wimp out by refusing to read Martin.  

My Uncle G. was a pastor who performed an exorcism in a house.  He left my cousin E (now a psychiatist) with his mother in the car.  The moment the exorcism was completed, E started screaming relentlessly and his entranced eyes rolled up in his head so that only the whites were visible.  Only the fervent prayers of his parents spared E from possession.  E recently told me that he was just 2 or 3 at the time and his only memory of this incident is that of being protectively cradled in Jesus' loving arms.

My brother D is now a doctor in Colorado.  When I was 21, my brother (then 16). and I were watching TV hockey on Saturday night.  Suddenly, D went into a trance.  He told me he had been given the name and exact location of EB, a young man who was possessed.   D. immediately hopped on a bus for a 7 miles ride to the coffee house.  Upon arriving, a stranger approached him and said, oddly, "You're here on a special mission, aren't you?"   After a while, EB showed up with a gang of thugs and started attacking patrons.   D. confronted him and boldly proclaimed, "EB, God has shown me that you're possessed and has sent me to exorcise you."  This risky declaration was greeted with scorn, but D. suddenly reached out and gently touched EB on the forehead. Instantly, EB fell like a rock and began frothing at the mouth and writhing like a serpent.  AFter a few minutes of this, EB lay still and meekly said, "Thank you."  His gang members were so scared they immediately expressed interest in converting to Christianity, but their conversions proved to be rather shallow.  I have since met EB and marvel at that miraculous winter evening.  

If you are suspicous of Christian examples, then consider the OBE experience of New Ager, Robert Monroe.  Three sections of this site are devoted to his books.  I am quoting from Monroe's "Journeys Out of the Body:"

"It is a gray-black hungry ocean where the slightest motion attracts nibbling and tormenting beings...Could this be the borders of Hell?  It is easy to conclude that a momentary penetration of this nearby layer would bring `demons' and `devils' to mind as the chief inhabitants.  They seem subhuman,  yet have an evident ability to act and think independently (121)."

"I was attacked by something.  It had no apparent personality, nor was I able to see it.  However, I knew this one was incredibly vicious with an intent to `take' something that was mine which first required getting rid of `me.'...It was a no-holds-barred affair, silent, terrifyingly fast, and with the other seeking out any weakness on my part...The thing fighting me seemed to move from nerve center to nerve center, and some of the holds and pressures it applied were excruciating.  I knew that if I did not fight back, I would lose, and losing seemed as vital as losing existence.  I then began to fight back with equal intensity, savagely and with desperation.  The thing fighting me knew every weak spot, and used them.  We fought for what seemed like hours, and gradually I felt I might truly lose....Still fighting, I steered the battle in the direction of my physical   When we were very close and directly over it, I stepeed back `in' (142-143)."

OBE adept, Robert Bruce, shares his experience of attempting to exorcize a grievously possessed young child.  Bruce makes the mistake of inviting the demon to possess him instead.  He thought he could easily dispose of it later.  He was wrong.  Twice in the middle of the night he found himself in a deep trance at the base of his son's bed with a sharp knife in his hand poised to murder his son.   It took all his mental focus to resist this coerced murder.  Finally, he decided that he was too dangerous and fled to the wilderness, thinking he might die there.   But he was finally given the grace of deliverance and returned home with a greater respect for the power of evil.  

Don't get hung up on the identity of these evil entities.  Focus instead on their power and potential for harm.

Don

Drawing on the experience of a dream I had, one way of dealing with something evil whether it be external or created by a subconscious part of yourself is to imagine a powerful ball of energy that disintegrates all negative forces in it's path.  By sending this ball at one such entity that was based upon one of my bad childhood memories, the entity (in my case, an insane priest from the movie "Poltergeist II") can be dispelled.

This idea I had came from the game Doom where you get to blast demons with various weapons.  I highly recommend it if you feel like taking on hell with a Double-Barrel Shotgun or a Rocket Launcher.   ;D

In fact, I found an amusing quote on Wikiquote for some humor:


Quote:

Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil...prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. Eat leaden death, demon...    * Terry Pratchett

Σd

Berserk wrote on Jan 29^th, 2007 at 6:10pm:

Let me preface my remarks by reassuring posters of my conviction that astral exploration motivated by unselfish concerns is usually very safe and I am curently trying to develop an OBE talent. That said, I don't know anyone who has read the possession case histories in Malachi Martin's "Hostage to the Devil" without being convinced of the reality of supernatural evil.  Those on this site who scoff at the demonic dishonestly wimp out by refusing to read Martin.   My Uncle G. was a pastor who performed an exorcism in a house.  He left my cousin E (now a psychiatist) with his mother in the car.  The moment the exorcism was completed, E started screaming relentlessly and his entranced eyes rolled up in his head so that only the whites were visible.  Only the fervent prayers of his parents spared E from possession.  E recently told me that he was just 2 or 3 at the time and his only memory of this incident is that of being protectively cradled in Jesus' loving arms. My brother D is now a doctor in Colorado.  When I was 21, my brother (then 16). and I were watching TV hockey on Saturday night.  Suddenly, D went into a trance.  He told me he had been given the name and exact location of EB, a young man who was possessed.   D. immediately hopped on a bus for a 7 miles ride to the coffee house.  Upon arriving, a stranger approached him and said, oddly, "You're here on a special mission, aren't you?"   After a while, EB showed up with a gang of thugs and started attacking patrons.   D. confronted him and boldly proclaimed, "EB, God has shown me that you're possessed and has sent me to exorcise you."  This risky declaration was greeted with scorn, but D. suddenly reached out and gently touched EB on the forehead. Instantly, EB fell like a rock and began frothing at the mouth and writhing like a serpent.  AFter a few minutes of this, EB lay still and meekly said, "Thank you."  His gang members were so scared they immediately expressed interest in converting to Christianity, but their conversions proved to be rather shallow.  I have since met EB and marvel at that miraculous winter evening.   If you are suspicous of Christian examples, then consider the OBE experience of New Ager, Robert Monroe.  Three sections of this site are devoted to his books.  I am quoting from Monroe's "Journeys Out of the Body:" "It is a gray-black hungry ocean where the slightest motion attracts nibbling and tormenting beings...Could this be the borders of Hell?  It is easy to conclude that a momentary penetration of this nearby layer would bring `demons' and `devils' to mind as the chief inhabitants.  They seem subhuman,  yet have an evident ability to act and think independently (121)." "I was attacked by something.  It had no apparent personality, nor was I able to see it.  However, I knew this one was incredibly vicious with an intent to `take' something that was mine which first required getting rid of `me.'...It was a no-holds-barred affair, silent, terrifyingly fast, and with the other seeking out any weakness on my part...The thing fighting me seemed to move from nerve center to nerve center, and some of the holds and pressures it applied were excruciating.  I knew that if I did not fight back, I would lose, and losing seemed as vital as losing existence.  I then began to fight back with equal intensity, savagely and with desperation.  The thing fighting me knew every weak spot, and used them.  We fought for what seemed like hours, and gradually I felt I might truly lose....Still fighting, I steered the battle in the direction of my physical   When we were very close and directly over it, I stepeed back `in' (142-143)." OBE adept, Robert Bruce, shares his experience of attempting to exorcize a grievously possessed young child.  Bruce makes the mistake of inviting the demon to possess him instead.  He thought he could easily dispose of it later.  He was wrong.  Twice in the middle of the night he found himself in a deep trance at the base of his son's bed with a sharp knife in his hand poised to murder his son.   It took all his mental focus to resist this coerced murder.  Finally, he decided that he was too dangerous and fled to the wilderness, thinking he might die there.   But he was finally given the grace of deliverance and returned home with a greater respect for the power of evil.   Don't get hung up on the identity of these evil entities.  Focus instead on their power and potential for harm. Don

I don't get why God would create such terrible entities... It makes no sense to me..

Are they just projections of our fears?? I just don't want to be wrong thinking  that these things don't exist and than "Bam" I'm getting tortured by these ungodly things in the afterlife... I hope to God they don't exist.. Also, I don't get how they can hurt you if they are just projections of our fears??? I'm just alittle confused on Bruce's theory.. Because some near death experiences I have read where people didn't even believe in hell, or the devil and they went there and met this evil character... Also, I have read about people getting tortured about demons, which scares the s*** out of me!! The only reason I'm scared about that because, what if I have already created demons, since I am scared of them now...  Hopefully, the law of attraction wipes that all out and I end up with good people like myself.. Otherwise my friends I would choose oblivion for myself...
*****************
Here's my take on it, Alex.
If Christian Hell and "demons" exist... well then, this is one
SH!THOLE of a universe.
If I end up being tortured by them after I die... then I'm just
sh!t in a sh!thole ruled by a Holy Sh!t, right?
So maybe I won't care.
Meanwhile, here on earth, I won't debase myself by putting any
stock in these beliefs. Alex, think about who ORIGINATED these
ideas. SHEEP-HERDING IGNORAMUSES. People about one step
above CAVEMEN!!! People who didn't understand nature or its
vagaries (lightning, thunder, wind, storms, ect.) so they sought
to appease nature, by GROVELING to it... just like they appeased
the bullying alpha males who typically ran their tribes. (Notice
how the Judeo-Christian god is nothing more and nothing less, than a bullying alpha male? That ain't no coincidence, Alex.)
Groveling, is what it's ALL about. (Ya dig what I'm sayin'..?)
So what's to worry? In the end, you'd be getting punished for
using the BRAIN "God" gave you, and then ordered you NOT
to use. Can you imagine Reality being THAT absurd, Alex?
I hope not..!

B-man

P.S. What WOULD be so awful about oblivion? Imagine the deepest
sleep you've ever had, and no waking up bone-tired and having
to drag your a$$ out of bed. Doesn't sound too bad to me..!

Our theology or philosophy must be grounded on the evidence for how things really are, not on how we wish them to be.  A synthetic interpretation may be possible which makes sense of what we formerly deemed intolerable.  My synthetic interpretation would take too long to explain here.  But consider the following simple rationale.

Free will requires pressure from contrary inclinations.   The stronger our inclinations towards evil, the more sacred our free chioce of the good, despite this contrary pressure.  So the choice of pure unconditional love derives its value from the lure of the opposite choice.  Thus, God does not create these evil entities.  They create their own negative orientation by their free choices.  Mythological speculation on how this schism from God happened is futile.  The popular myth of Lucifer is not a biblical concept.  The poetic image of the fall of Lucifer refers to the fall of an Assyrian king, not to the fall of Satan.

Some of the most important questions are thes simplist.   Keep asking your basic  questions! :-*

Don

Here's my take on it, Alex.
If Christian Hell and "demons" exist... well then, this is one
SH!THOLE of a universe.
If I end up being tortured by them after I die... then I'm just
sh!t in a sh!thole ruled by a Holy Sh!t, right?
So maybe I won't care.
Meanwhile, here on earth, I won't debase myself by putting any
stock in these beliefs. Alex, think about who ORIGINATED these
ideas. SHEEP-HERDING IGNORAMUSES. People about one step
above CAVEMEN!!! People who didn't understand nature or its
vagaries (lightning, thunder, wind, storms, ect.) so they sought
to appease nature, by GROVELING to it... just like they appeased
the bullying alpha males who typically ran their tribes. (Notice
how the Judeo-Christian god is nothing more and nothing less, than a bullying alpha male? That ain't no coincidence, Alex.)
Groveling, is what it's ALL about. (Ya dig what I'm sayin'..?)
So what's to worry? In the end, you'd be getting punished for
using the BRAIN "God" gave you, and then ordered you NOT
to use. Can you imagine Reality being THAT absurd, Alex?
I hope not..!

B-man

P.S. What WOULD be so awful about oblivion? Imagine the deepest
sleep you've ever had, and no waking up bone-tired and having
to drag your a$$ out of bed. Doesn't sound too bad to me..!
[/quote]
I see what you're saying!! If, we get tortured for using our brains to not follow the rest of the sheep who worship an egotistical God! I don't think that deserves punishment at all!! I don't view God that way but c'mon who would worship a egotistical God who will fry you if you don't worship him or lead a perfect life... If, you ask me people like that who think God is like that are just blinded by their faith! That's why I won't listen to their views on God or hell anymore!

BTW that sounds pretty good about oblivion.. You don't have to worry about hell or demons!

An egotistic God?  What an incoherent notion!  As the Creator, God has no ego.  Rather, God is the ground of all egos and all consciousness.  As for the hope of oblivion, well, you'd better get busy trying to refute all the evidence from OBEs, NDEs, and ADCs for an afterlife because that evidence suggests that only a few can ever avail themselves of that option.

Don

Going by what I've found out, the unfriendly spirits that exist are former humans.

If you think about it, it doesn't make a difference what their origins are. If they have bad intentions, then they have bad intentions.

Because of how I help with retrievels I make contact with spirits every day. Nothing bad has happened to me yet, and I've been doing this for almost two years.

I had this experience one time. My third eye became really active. I saw a hell like realm. It had a creepy feel to it. A stairwell led out of this realm. A man was walking up the stairwell. Then the words "Dante's Inferno" came to me loud and clear. Even though I had heard about this story I didn't know anything about it.  I researched the story and found that it was about a man who was allowed to leave hell and go to heaven once he deciced that he wanted to rejoin  God. The moral of the above came through quite clear. If a person really wants to join God, then nothing can stop he or she from doing so.

I've also had experiences which told me that another spirit doesn't have the ability to take over our willpower, without us giving it the power to do so. Perhaps a person takes on a personna that is really negative and separates his or herself from God and love so much, that when push comes to shove, he or she doesn't have anything with which to resist.

Or perhaps a person becomes so afraid of a negative minded spirit, partly because he or she gives too much consideration to the stories that speak as if negative minded spirits are really powerful, and then he or she isn't able to come up with enough self confidence to resist a spirit that tries to get the best of he or she.

It is possible for a person to create demonic like tendencies within his or her mind. Some of this creation might be in the form of mimicry. A person watches something that is supposed to be representative of demonic activity, perhaps a horror movie, what he or she hears and sees becomes a part of his or her memory banks, and related thought patterns are created. Such thought patterns can team up with related thought patterns, such as thought patterns that relate to issues of anger and hatred. Some of these thought patterns can be subconscious. Related to this, it is interesting to note that after the Exorcist came out psychologists reported that the number of people who believed they were possessed went up significantly.

I once had an out of body experience where I visited the entrance way of a hell like realm.  I felt no fear because I clearly understood that the spirits in this realm could leave it, only when they sought help from light beings. Immediately afther the experience ended the thought occurred to me that  sometimes these spirits find their way out when people use ouija boards.  There might also be other ways. For example, people who practice black magic or some other negative activity.

I feel really confident about the following. Spirits who for whatever reason become negative, cut themselves off from God, love and their own inner divinity, lower their vibrational rate, and get caught up in limited, confused patterns of mind. I don't understand where their supposed power is supposed to come from.

Regarding Robert Bruce's story, he didn't lose control of his mind, will power, intentions, and soul. He only lost control of his body for short periods of time after he volunterilly allowed a spirit to "take him."  And he didn't lose control to the extent where his body actually did something negative.

There might be some negative minded spirits out there that try to influence people in subtle ways. For example, some channeled information seems to be really false and misleading.

recoverer wrote on Jan 29^th, 2007 at 9:05pm:

Going by what I've found out, the unfriendly spirits that exist are former humans. If you think about it, it doesn't make a difference what their origins are. If they have bad intentions, then they have bad intentions. Because of how I help with retrievels I make contact with spirits every day. Nothing bad has happened to me yet, and I've been doing this for almost two years. I had this experience one time. My third eye became really active. I saw a hell like realm. It had a creepy feel to it. A stairwell led out of this realm. A man was walking up the stairwell. Then the words "Dante's Inferno" came to me loud and clear. Even though I had heard about this story I didn't know anything about it.  I researched the story and found that it was about a man who was allowed to leave hell and go to heaven once he deciced that he wanted to rejoin  God. The moral of the above came through quite clear. If a person really wants to join God, then nothing can stop he or she from doing so. I've also had experiences which told me that another spirit doesn't have the ability to take over our willpower, without us giving it the power to do so. Perhaps a person takes on a personna that is really negative and separates his or herself from God and love so much, that when push comes to shove, he or she doesn't have anything with which to resist. Or perhaps a person becomes so afraid of a negative minded spirit, partly because he or she gives too much consideration to the stories that speak as if negative minded spirits are really powerful, and then he or she isn't able to come up with enough self confidence to resist a spirit that tries to get the best of he or she. It is possible for a person to create demonic like tendencies within his or her mind. Some of this creation might be in the form of mimicry. A person watches something that is supposed to be representative of demonic activity, perhaps a horror movie, what he or she hears and sees becomes a part of his or her memory banks, and related thought patterns are created. Such thought patterns can team up with related thought patterns, such as thought patterns that relate to issues of anger and hatred. Some of these thought patterns can be subconscious. Related to this, it is interesting to note that after the Exorcist came out psychologists reported that the number of people who believed they were possessed went up significantly. I once had an out of body experience where I visited the entrance way of a hell like realm.  I felt no fear because I clearly understood that the spirits in this realm could leave it, only when they sought help from light beings. Immediately afther the experience ended the thought occurred to me that  sometimes these spirits find their way out when people use ouija boards.  There might also be other ways. For example, people who practice black magic or some other negative activity. I feel really confident about the following. Spirits who for whatever reason become negative, cut themselves off from God, love and their own inner divinity, lower their vibrational rate, and get caught up in limited, confused patterns of mind. I don't understand where their supposed power is supposed to come from. Regarding Robert Bruce's story, he didn't lose control of his mind, will power, intentions, and soul. He only lost control of his body for short periods of time after he volunterilly allowed a spirit to "take him."  And he didn't lose control to the extent where his body actually did something negative. There might be some negative minded spirits out there that try to influence people in subtle ways. For example, some channeled information seems to be really false and misleading.

Now, that sounds more reasonable!! From reading Emanuel Sweedenborg's writtings he talked about the beastly people he saw actually were humans!! They were so evil in their times on earth, that they degenerated into grotesque forms, showing truly how sinister they were inside.. I've always figured the people who got possesed were only possesed by an evil spirit, not  a demon... Because former times using an ouija board the spirits would spell out their names and threaten us.. I never have touched an ouija board since than..

So, what were those hells like?? Did you see any beastlike people?? BTW you are one brave soul to go venture into those realms!

That shows how forgiving God must be, to even let souls who turn their backs on him and still give them chances to go to heaven! That seems more like the God I've pictured him to be...

Berserk wrote on Jan 29^th, 2007 at 9:03pm:

An egotistic God?  What an incoherent notion!  As the Creator, God has no ego.  Rather, God is the ground of all egos and all consciousness.  As for the hope of oblivion, well, you'd better get busy trying to refute all the evidence from OBEs, NDEs, and ADCs for an afterlife because that evidence suggests that only a few can ever avail themselves of that option. Don

I know he doesn't have an ego.. It's just the way most Christians portray him as an egotistical deity who wants you to worship him or else! I believe God is far from that!! I believe he is way more loving than one can even perceive him to be!!! Also, his is very forgiving and not a wrathful deity!!! My God doesn't judge anyone as well!

Here's my take on it, Alex.
If Christian Hell and "demons" exist... well then, this is one
SH!THOLE of a universe.
If I end up being tortured by them after I die... then I'm just
sh!t in a sh!thole ruled by a Holy Sh!t, right?
So maybe I won't care.
Meanwhile, here on earth, I won't debase myself by putting any
stock in these beliefs. Alex, think about who ORIGINATED these
ideas. SHEEP-HERDING IGNORAMUSES. People about one step
above CAVEMEN!!! People who didn't understand nature or its
vagaries (lightning, thunder, wind, storms, ect.) so they sought
to appease nature, by GROVELING to it... just like they appeased
the bullying alpha males who typically ran their tribes. (Notice
how the Judeo-Christian god is nothing more and nothing less, than a bullying alpha male? That ain't no coincidence, Alex.)
Groveling, is what it's ALL about. (Ya dig what I'm sayin'..?)
So what's to worry? In the end, you'd be getting punished for
using the BRAIN "God" gave you, and then ordered you NOT
to use. Can you imagine Reality being THAT absurd, Alex?
I hope not..!

B-man

P.S. What WOULD be so awful about oblivion? Imagine the deepest
sleep you've ever had, and no waking up bone-tired and having
to drag your a$$ out of bed. Doesn't sound too bad to me..!
[/quote]
I see what you're saying!! If, we get tortured for using our brains to not follow the rest of the sheep who worship an egotistical God! I don't think that deserves punishment at all!! I don't view God that way but c'mon who would worship a egotistical God who will fry you if you don't worship him or lead a perfect life... If, you ask me people like that who think God is like that are just blinded by their faith! That's why I won't listen to their views on God or hell anymore!

BTW that sounds pretty good about oblivion.. You don't have to worry about hell or demons!
*****************
For an even better demolition of "Hellfire and Damnation", google
for "Robert G. Ingersoll" and read some of his stuff. I believe his
entry on Wikipedia has links to a number of e-texts of his writings.
He, and Bertrand Russell were an eye-opener for me, YEARS ago
when I was in high school. (Saved me a lot of grief that would have
come from believing that "Turn or Burn" garbage bombarding us at every turn in America these days...)

B-man

Chumley I yahooed and read Robert G. Ingersoll's take on the Bible.  Eeish .. the sense I get from his writings is he's not very spiritual and is following the History of Crime through his eyes.  If one had to read the Bible with a deeper understanding one will find there are layers of messages.  I just get a very one dimensional feeling from his opinions.

He obviously hasn't had a close encounter with a demon (as Don writes above) in the way he relates God to being a demon.  The word 'religion' meaning covering says a huge amount and this covering may relate to the Bible.  In my opinion it is not covering God as a demon - it is covering 'for those who have ears listen'.

If we read Isaiah, to me, it seems exactly what is happening in the Middle East today.  The enemy is known to God, God knows how the enemy operates.  (I don't want to sound melodramatic saying this) but I believe the very demons themselves need Christ, and RS talks about this.

I think Robert Ingersoll is following the wrong god - the god of the dead and not the Living God.

Well, my thoughts.

Chumley I yahooed and read Robert G. Ingersoll's take on the Bible.  Eeish .. the sense I get from his writings is he's not very spiritual and is following the History of Crime through his eyes.  If one had to read the Bible with a deeper understanding one will find there are layers of messages.  I just get a very one dimensional feeling from his opinions.

He obviously hasn't had a close encounter with a demon (as Don writes above) in the way he relates God to being a demon.  The word 'religion' meaning covering says a huge amount and this covering may relate to the Bible.  In my opinion it is not covering God as a demon - it is covering 'for those who have ears listen'.

If we read Isaiah, to me, it seems exactly what is happening in the Middle East today.  The enemy is known to God, God knows how the enemy operates.  (I don't want to sound melodramatic saying this) but I believe the very demons themselves need Christ, and RS talks about this.

I think Robert Ingersoll is following the wrong god - the god of the dead and not the Living God.

Well, my thoughts.
*****************
So I guess I'd better get started observing the behavior of
dogs, then -?
The better to master my groveling and boot-licking skills.
TURN OR BURN!!! Yeppers, Either I gots to become a "Bride
of Christ" (so Jesus can pork my heiney in "Heaven"?) or I'se
GOIN' DOWN...
Righto?

B-man

P.S. Ingersoll LOATHED war, barbarism, and cruelty. If that
doesn't count as "spiritual", then what the heck does? (I guess
groveling, genuflecting, and babbling formulaic prayers is
YOUR answer..?)

B-dawg wrote on Jan 30^th, 2007 at 9:21pm:

Chumley I yahooed and read Robert G. Ingersoll's take on the Bible.  Eeish .. the sense I get from his writings is he's not very spiritual and is following the History of Crime through his eyes.  If one had to read the Bible with a deeper understanding one will find there are layers of messages.  I just get a very one dimensional feeling from his opinions. He obviously hasn't had a close encounter with a demon (as Don writes above) in the way he relates God to being a demon.  The word 'religion' meaning covering says a huge amount and this covering may relate to the Bible.  In my opinion it is not covering God as a demon - it is covering 'for those who have ears listen'. If we read Isaiah, to me, it seems exactly what is happening in the Middle East today.  The enemy is known to God, God knows how the enemy operates.  (I don't want to sound melodramatic saying this) but I believe the very demons themselves need Christ, and RS talks about this. I think Robert Ingersoll is following the wrong god - the god of the dead and not the Living God. Well, my thoughts. ***************** So I guess I'd better get started observing the behavior of dogs, then -? The better to master my groveling and boot-licking skills. TURN OR BURN!!! Yeppers, Either I gots to become a "Bride of Christ" (so Jesus can pork my heiney in "Heaven"?) or I'se GOIN' DOWN... Righto? B-man P.S. Ingersoll LOATHED war, barbarism, and cruelty. If that doesn't count as "spiritual", then what the heck does? (I guess groveling, genuflecting, and babbling formulaic prayers is YOUR answer..?)

Bump I love this post!! :)

Chumley I yahooed and read Robert G. Ingersoll's take on the Bible.  Eeish .. the sense I get from his writings is he's not very spiritual and is following the History of Crime through his eyes.  If one had to read the Bible with a deeper understanding one will find there are layers of messages.  I just get a very one dimensional feeling from his opinions.

He obviously hasn't had a close encounter with a demon (as Don writes above) in the way he relates God to being a demon.  The word 'religion' meaning covering says a huge amount and this covering may relate to the Bible.  In my opinion it is not covering God as a demon - it is covering 'for those who have ears listen'.

If we read Isaiah, to me, it seems exactly what is happening in the Middle East today.  The enemy is known to God, God knows how the enemy operates.  (I don't want to sound melodramatic saying this) but I believe the very demons themselves need Christ, and RS talks about this.

I think Robert Ingersoll is following the wrong god - the god of the dead and not the Living God.

Well, my thoughts.
*****************
So I guess I'd better get started observing the behavior of
dogs, then -?
The better to master my groveling and boot-licking skills.
TURN OR BURN!!! Yeppers, Either I gots to become a "Bride
of Christ" (so Jesus can pork my heiney in "Heaven"?) or I'se
GOIN' DOWN...
Righto?

B-man

P.S. Ingersoll LOATHED war, barbarism, and cruelty. If that
doesn't count as "spiritual", then what the heck does? (I guess
groveling, genuflecting, and babbling formulaic prayers is
YOUR answer..?)
Bump I love this post!! :)
*****************
"Bump", eh? I guess that shoe doesn't fit too bad, come to
think of it. I've been known to make the fundies' ride here
a little less smooth (or at least I hope...)
BTW, I hope that slogan at the end of your posts - the one
about Mother Theresa and Chuck Manson - is STRICTLY meant
to be tongue-in-cheek..! (My idiot best friend has said that several
times (word for word) since he became a Southern Baptist.)

B-man (or is it Bump?)

Chumley Chumley it's not like that!  It is actually freedom, freedom from being trapped in a material world.

I had a strange dream once;  I was in the main street of the central business area here.  I was walking in the street and everyone looked like the living dead walking around me.  It was quite scary because they looked like they had risen from the grave and were mindlessly walking around, they were this off-colour white.  Then I was in my car driving amongst these people and came to a fountain in a park and here I saw a handful of 'normal' looking people - I parked my car and went up to them and they said 'i'm glad you found us'.

lol maybe just an imaginative dream but it was very clear.  Anyway don't know why I wrote that but Chum it's also not who we were it is who we have become.  Who we are today hey.



 

B-dawg wrote on Jan 31^st, 2007 at 2:25am:

Chumley I yahooed and read Robert G. Ingersoll's take on the Bible.  Eeish .. the sense I get from his writings is he's not very spiritual and is following the History of Crime through his eyes.  If one had to read the Bible with a deeper understanding one will find there are layers of messages.  I just get a very one dimensional feeling from his opinions. He obviously hasn't had a close encounter with a demon (as Don writes above) in the way he relates God to being a demon.  The word 'religion' meaning covering says a huge amount and this covering may relate to the Bible.  In my opinion it is not covering God as a demon - it is covering 'for those who have ears listen'. If we read Isaiah, to me, it seems exactly what is happening in the Middle East today.  The enemy is known to God, God knows how the enemy operates.  (I don't want to sound melodramatic saying this) but I believe the very demons themselves need Christ, and RS talks about this. I think Robert Ingersoll is following the wrong god - the god of the dead and not the Living God. Well, my thoughts. ***************** So I guess I'd better get started observing the behavior of dogs, then -? The better to master my groveling and boot-licking skills. TURN OR BURN!!! Yeppers, Either I gots to become a "Bride of Christ" (so Jesus can pork my heiney in "Heaven"?) or I'se GOIN' DOWN... Righto? B-man P.S. Ingersoll LOATHED war, barbarism, and cruelty. If that doesn't count as "spiritual", then what the heck does? (I guess groveling, genuflecting, and babbling formulaic prayers is YOUR answer..?) Bump I love this post!! :) ***************** "Bump", eh? I guess that shoe doesn't fit too bad, come to think of it. I've been known to make the fundies' ride here a little less smooth (or at least I hope...) BTW, I hope that slogan at the end of your posts - the one about Mother Theresa and Chuck Manson - is STRICTLY meant to be tongue-in-cheek..! (My idiot best friend has said that several times (word for word) since he became a Southern Baptist.) B-man (or is it Bump?)

Yeah, it's definately a tongue in cheek! BTW I won't be here for a week! I'm going to MIami to see my Bears kick some ass hopefully!!!

Like attracts like !   If you're a good person then your vibration rate will be that of others like yourself. Beings of lower vibration (aka evil) won't be able to touch you.