Psalm 137:9...
"Happy shall he be, who taketh thy children and dasheth
their heads against the stones."
Just thought I'd help you out there, Doc. (I noticed you were
giving G-man some advice about not getting angry about the
glorious "words of wisdom" in the Bible...)

B-man

How brutal and savage.  That is from the Bible?  NO WAY.

I'm sure well find someone here attempting to invent some kind of exuse or create a crazy abstract interpretation for this quote.  

Here's a few more to add to the list:

Exodus 35:2. Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day there shall be to you an holy day, a sabbath of rest to the LORD: whosoever doeth work therein shall be put to death.

Deuteronomy 21:18-21. If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them:
Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place;
And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard.
And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.

Leviticus 20:13. If a man lies with a man as one lies with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They must be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.

Deuteronomy 22:13-21. If any man takes a wife and goes in to her and then turns against her, and charges her with shameful deeds and publicly defames her, and says, 'I took this woman, but when I came near her, I did not find her a virgin......
But if this charge is true, that the girl was not found a virgin, then they shall bring out the girl to the doorway of her father's house, and the men of her city shall stone her to death because she has (D)committed an act of folly in Israel by playing the harlot in her father's house; thus (E)you shall purge the evil from among you.

Let's see someone explain these away.

Word of God my @$$.  Reading passages such as these makes me sick.  How can anyone worship a god who promotes such things?  Dispickable.  All of the good teachings in the Bible combined could never cover up or make up for these sick "teachings."  Wake up Christians.

Here's a link to almost 100 bible passages which promote attrochious acts of violence and savagry.  Educate yourself.  http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/donald_morgan/atrocity.html

Chumley and Dude,

Both of you are historical and biblical illiterates whose distortions of Scripture are googled and not based on direct grappling with original texts.  But Chumley, you are poisoning Bruce's site with your ignorant venom and creating thread after thread that has nothing to do with the site's purpose.  And you don't even have the courtesy to post your venom in the "Off Topic" section.  

As you know, I'm planning to leave this section of the site after a post or two.  Unlike you two, Rondele is a skeptic who knows what he doesn't know and has an honest and open-ended spiritual quest.  So I'm going to create at least one more post to address his issues.  Neither of you are willing to read books with perspectives that challenge your venemous dogmas.  But I'll make you a deal: I'll debate you both on Jesus and the Bible on one condition--that you create your anti-Christian threads in the "Off Topic" section out of courtesy to members who want their discussion kept on the site's fbcus.  There I'll continue to answer your questions there long after I've vacated the "Afterlife Knowledge" section of this wesite.  Are you game or not?  if so, signify this not  by replying to this post, but by starting a new thread in the "Off Topic" section.

Don

Chumley and Dude,

Both of you are historical and biblical illiterates whose distortions of Scripture are googled and not based on direct grappling with original texts.
*****************
-Compared to your typical churchgoer (who you'd have us emulate, right? ADMIT IT!) Dude and I are veritable
BIBLE SCHOLARS, Don. That's not saying much I realize... but hey,
you gotta start somewhere, righto???
As far as me googling for Psalm 137:9... WHAT Bible are you using,
Don old boy? Are you saying that isn't in the Bible then? BTW, I got it  straight from the KJV (online version, for what that's worth...)
_________________
But Chumley, you are poisoning Bruce's site with your ignorant venom and creating thread after thread that has nothing to do with the site's purpose.  And you don't even have the courtesy to post your venom in the "Off Topic" section.
*****************
-"Venom"? Because I won't conform to your dogma?
You'd make a good Thought Police agent in the world of
"1984", Don. (I'll bet you just HATE living in a democracy,
what with free speech and other such awful things..!)
_________________

As you know, I'm planning to leave this section of the site after a post or two.  Unlike you two, Rondele is a skeptic who knows what he doesn't know and has an honest and open-ended spiritual quest.  So I'm going to create at least one more post to address his issues.  Neither of you are willing to read books with perspectives that challenge your venemous dogmas.  But I'll make you a deal: I'll debate you both on Jesus and the Bible on one condition--that you create your anti-Christian threads in the "Off Topic" section out of courtesy to members who want their discussion kept on the site's fbcus.
*****************
-So you can proselytize UNCHALLENGED on the main forum, eh? (Surprise, surprise...)
_________________
 There I'll continue to answer your questions there long after I've vacated the "Afterlife Knowledge" section of this wesite.  Are you game or not?  if so, signify this not  by replying to this post, but by starting a new thread in the "Off Topic" section.

Don
*****************
-I guess I'm just not as good at tortuous mental gymnastics as
you are. I'm not able to see how smashing a little kid's brains
all over a rock is really a sign of "God's love."
No, I'm the type who just sees things, the way he reads 'em.
I've read books. I've read some of the stuff you've suggested.
But none of it is going to turn me into a Christian dogma-head,
sorry 'bout that. (Having read the likes of Robert Ingersoll, Bertrand
Russel, and Richard Dawkins, the authors you've been offering up
seem a bit "bush league" to me (no pun intended.) I wonder how you'd do in a debate with James Randi, Don?)
So far, all of your arguments have had the consistency of
half-cooked farina... (But what else would you expect from
Christian apologetics, no matter how brilliant the presenter..?)
Augustine and Thomas Aquinas didn't convince me, Don. Once
these "heavyweights" (relatively speaking) are out of the way,
what's left..?

B-man

Hi  Chumley and OOBD  God showed his love for us all, through his beloved son Jesus

This Phoenician woman,went up to Jesus and said to him "Oh lord though son of david,my daughter is grieviously vexed by a devil".
"Lord help me"she cried.
The disciples did not want Jesus to help her because she was phoenician and not jewish.
Jesus said to her "I was sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel,it is not right to take the childrens bread and throw it to the dogs".
She looked into his eyes and could see behind his words,the tenderness in his heart.
So she pointed to the dogs and said "but even the dogs eat of the crumbs that fall from their masters table.
Her belief in his will and his power to help,pleased Jesus.
"Oh woman" he cried, "Great is your faith,be it done unto thee,even as thou wilt.


Love and God bless the world     Love Juditha

I thought I would just make the observation that some of the threads begun lately have been titled so as to be directed specifically at certain people, and they tend to make the comments appear personal and disrespectful in some cases.  

I feel that it is not appropriate to single people out in this way, and, at the very least, we can be mindful of it.  

love, blink

Quote:

Both of you are historical and biblical illiterates whose distortions of Scripture are googled and not based on direct grappling with original texts.

Don.  I have a copy of the Bible in my home.  These quotes I listed, while originally finding them on an official online Bible, were also found in the Bible in my house.  The one that every Christian has and reads.  So how did I distort anything?  They are straight from the book!  Can you not come to terms with the disgusting words that your "god" teaches?  You make no sense and your arguement against these passages is absurd.


Quote:

that you create your anti-Christian threads in the "Off Topic" section out of courtesy to members who want their discussion kept on the site's fbcus.

This will only be done if your pro-Christian threads are likewise created in the "Off Topic" section.  If the anti-Christian threads have nothing to do with the Afterlife, then neither do the pro-Chrisitian threads!  Theres an equal amount of both, actually probably much more pro-Christian threads.  Jesus this.  Mother Mary that.  If we cannot argue against these fairytales, then you should not be able to argue for them in the first place, because they are simply two sides of the same topic.  

Dude,

I never said those verses weren't in the Bible.  I said that you and Chum had to google them to track them down.  Neither of you has an even rudimentary knowledge of Scripture, as I will quickly demonstrate if you accept my invitation to engage in the "Off Topic" section.   But a word of warning!  Such an engagement will hold your feet to the fire for the broad range of your irresponsible statements about Jesus and the Bible which you gleaned from Acharya and other incompetent online sources.  By the way, "Acharya" is her pompous pseudonym and means "Guru" or "teacher."  Her real name is D. Murdock. As I've said, I will not be posting in this section after tomorrow.  

[Dude:] "Can you not come to terms with the disgusting words that your "god" teaches?  You make no sense and your arguement against these passages is absurd."
_____________________________________________________________

Spoken with the arrogant presumption of a lightweight innocent!  I haven't shared my argument in defense of the Bible as a  whole.  So how do you know my "argument...is absurd?"  I will enjoy making constructive use of you and Chum as my whipping boys.  Gentlemen, start your "Off Topic" thread.

Don

Don

I have only made one Religion-related thread, and that was the last and only one I plan on making.  

I took your argument to be that the passages I found were distorted, and were simply found on google, therefore being innacurate.  


Quote:

Both of you are historical and biblical illiterates whose distortions of Scripture are googled and not based on direct grappling with original texts.

Is the bible not an original text?  

Whether I read the original bible in church or I googled some passages is unimportant.  The facts stand, the passages are the same, and my point is just as valid.

Dude,

No, what is important is this: you have taken many ignorant dogmatic cheap shots at Jesus and the Bible with impunity on many threads.  And now you are confronted by potential humiliation from someone who has just called your bluff and challenged you to subject your claims to closer scrutiny.  I will quickly demonstrate that you don't know what you are talking about.   That would be OK if you weren't so arrogantly dogmatic.   You and Chum can't hide behind your excuse that I'll sneak back to this section and "proselytize."  If that happens, you can abruptly end your intellectual ordeal.  So I expect you to "man up," start the Off Topic thread, and see what happens.

Don

Don,

It's not a matter of humility.  Do you really think that if you proved me wrong(which in this case would be proving me wrong that the bible contains obvious horrid passages promoting violence and other inhumane actions, which I don't think you can do), that I would be humiliated?  Come on Don.  I have reached a point in my life where I could be pantsed(meaning having my pants pulled down) at the mall and wouldn't give a hoot.  Because it is not important to me.  It is not important to me if you try to prove me wrong.  It is not important to me if people observe my statements being picked apart and fed to the dogs.  It is not imporant to me if this whole entire forum thinks I am a fool.  I speak my mind with regards to other's feelings, but without regard to what other people will think of me.  Go ahead and try to prove me wrong, that is fine with me.  I am not going to start a new thread in the Off Topics section because it is not important to me.  If you want to prove me wrong, do it right here.  But please stop requesting this Off Topic nonsense.  I don't care enough to create a new thread.

Dude,

I never said those verses weren't in the Bible.  I said that you and Chum had to google them to track them down.  Neither of you has an even rudimentary knowledge of Scripture, as I will quickly demonstrate if you accept my invitation to engage in the "Off Topic" section.   But a word of warning!  Such an engagement will hold your feet to the fire for the broad range of your irresponsible statements about Jesus and the Bible which you gleaned from Acharya and other incompetent online sources.  By the way, "Acharya" is her pompous pseudonym and means "Guru" or "teacher."  Her real name is D. Murdock. As I've said, I will not be posting in this section after tomorrow.  

[Dude:] "Can you not come to terms with the disgusting words that your "god" teaches?  You make no sense and your arguement against these passages is absurd."
_____________________________________________________________

Spoken with the arrogant presumption of a lightweight innocent!  I haven't shared my argument in defense of the Bible as a  whole.  So how do you know my "argument...is absurd?"  I will enjoy making constructive use of you and Chum as my whipping boys.

Don
****************
"Whipping boys?"
What do you mean? Are you going to call us names and launch
ad hominem attacks, you mean?
#1. That doesn't scare me, Don. It is COMICAL in fact..!
#2. Why would I want to listen to, or read, a bunch of rehashed
C.S. Lewis (THAT clown should have stuck to ripping off his buddy J.R.R. Tolkien, IMHO) and Josh MacDowell (so full of holes, he's not even funny, just pathetic) arguments? As such, we won't be able to PROVE you're wrong. And conversely, you won't be able to prove WE are wrong. (Arguing with people like you is a bit like firing a pistol into a mud puddle. You're hitting something, but in the end there wasn't anything to shoot at - and you're wasting your ammo!)

B-man

[Chum:] #1. "That doesn't scare me, Don. It is COMICAL in fact..!"
__________________________________________________________

Yes, my constructive use of you and Dude as my didactic whipping boys would indeed be "comical" because your arrogant presumption is truly amusing, all the more so when fully and explicity exposed.   ;D

[Chum:] #2. "Why would I want to listen to, or read, a bunch of rehashed
C.S. Lewis (THAT clown should have stuck to ripping off his buddy J.R.R. Tolkien, IMHO) and Josh MacDowell (so full of holes, he's not even funny, just pathetic) arguments?"
_____________________

What makes you and Dude such intellectual lightweights is your penchant for such unwarranted assumptions about the most crucial issues.  First, you are once again bluffing: you haven't read any of these thinkers or, for that matter, any book on the afterlife.  You are too lazy and intellectually dishonest to do so. Second, my refutations will invoke none of these thinkers.  Mine will involve subjects about which your limited googled quackdoodle knows nothing--e. g. how both the biblical prophets and Jesus critique the Pentateuchal texts you and Dude quote with such insipid naivite.

[Chum:] "As such, we won't be able to PROVE you're wrong. And conversely, you won't be able to prove WE are wrong."
________________________________

Oh yes, I WILL be able to prove you and Dude are wrong about so many of your fundamental claims.  But you sense this and that's why you and Dude are dorfing your pants as you try desperately to come up with lame excuses for not putting your claims to the test in the "Off Topics" section.  >:(

Don  

Somewhere I came across an Eleventh Commandment which seems appropriate here - "Thou shalt be involved in no bad scenes."

If we can't PUL it together, we're gonna get pulled apart.

d

[Dave:] "If we can't PUL it together, we're gonna get pulled apart."
_________________________________________________________

Of course, nice pious platitude!  And that's why I'll be deserting this site for a few months after today.  It's always a "bad scene" when cocky young whippersnappers get in way over their head in a debate about spiritual truth.
Believe it or not, I actually believe I'm loving these two birds in my own way by adopting their chirping rhetorical style.  I've certainly succeeded in pushing their buttons.  They won't soon forget me and they might be more cautious the next time they're tempted to pontificate on spiritual subjects about which they are ignorant.  I was to thanks those who have been cheering me on in PMs.

Don

Of course, there is another alternative, Don.  You could go post the information you have in mind on the Off-Topic section anyway. I'd personally really enjoy reading it.

Doesn't all this sound a little out of date to anyone???  I think that "gentlemen" in some countries in the past had a habit of slapping an opponent on the cheek with a glove in order to invite him to a duel with pistols.  Or maybe they were swords....no big difference I guess.

Lots of times the duels did not take place, but even when they did the pistols were so badly made that they missed each other quite a bit.

Of course, lots of times people got hurt badly or killed during these contests. It was quite a performance to be a "man" in those days.  I guess times haven't changed, have they?

I can certainly see the similarity.....  

love, blink :)

[Chum:] #1. "That doesn't scare me, Don. It is COMICAL in fact..!"
__________________________________________________________

Yes, my constructive use of you and Dude as my didactic whipping boys would indeed be "comical" because your arrogant presumption is truly amusing, all the more so when fully and explicity exposed.   ;D

[Chum:] #2. "Why would I want to listen to, or read, a bunch of rehashed
C.S. Lewis (THAT clown should have stuck to ripping off his buddy J.R.R. Tolkien, IMHO) and Josh MacDowell (so full of holes, he's not even funny, just pathetic) arguments?"
_____________________

What makes you and Dude such intellectual lightweights is your penchant for such unwarranted assumptions about the most crucial issues.  First, you are once again bluffing: you haven't read any of these thinkers or, for that matter, any book on the afterlife.  You are too lazy and intellectually dishonest to do so. Second, my refutations will invoke none of these thinkers.  Mine will involve subjects about which your limited googled quackdoodle knows nothing--e. g. how both the biblical prophets and Jesus critique the Pentateuchal texts you and Dude quote with such insipid naivite.

[Chum:] "As such, we won't be able to PROVE you're wrong. And conversely, you won't be able to prove WE are wrong."
________________________________

Oh yes, I WILL be able to prove you and Dude are wrong about so many of your fundamental claims.  But you sense this and that's why you and Dude are dorfing your pants as you try desperately to come up with lame excuses for not putting your claims to the test in the "Off Topics" section.  >:(

Don  
*****************
Lame excuses?
I see it as not being CRUEL, Don. Dude has come to a point
in his life where he could be "pantsed" at the mall, and he
wouldn't care? Well, I'VE matured some too in my time. If
a Chihuahua is nipping at my ankles, I won't KICK it (like
I might have done when I was a teenager.) I'll just step out
of its reach, and let the little feller "yap himself out."
(Ain't I a NICE guy, now..? ::))

B-man

Quote:

I've certainly succeeded in pushing their buttons.  They won't soon forget me and they might be more cautious the next time they're tempted to pontificate on spiritual subjects about which they are ignorant.

Don

Personally, I have fun debating with you.  Its always interesting to engage with someone who has different beliefs.  Its like what Forest Gump says.. "life is like a box of chocolates.  You never know what you're gonna get."  In this case, its "you never know what you're gonna learn."  

You are right, I will not soon forget you.  Nor anyone else on this website, no matter how long I am away from here(I don't plan on leaving, however!).  You all help me to learn new information and concepts.  Whether I store these ideas in my "spiritual truths" box, or in my "interesting yet unlikely" box, it makes no difference, for both boxes help to guide me along this wonderful path I am now on.  

If you are truely leaving then I wish you the best, and I am sorry you have been discouraged by our engagements.  

I've certainly succeeded in pushing their buttons.  They won't soon forget me and they might be more cautious the next time they're tempted to pontificate on spiritual subjects about which they are ignorant. [/quote]

Don

Personally, I have fun debating with you.  Its always interesting to engage with someone who has different beliefs.  Its like what Forest Gump says.. "life is like a box of chocolates.  You never know what you're gonna get."  In this case, its "you never know what you're gonna learn."  

You are right, I will not soon forget you.  Nor anyone else on this website, no matter how long I am away from here(I don't plan on leaving, however!).  You all help me to learn new information and concepts.  Whether I store these ideas in my "spiritual truths" box, or in my "interesting yet unlikely" box, it makes no difference, for both boxes help to guide me along this wonderful path I am now on.  

If you are truely leaving then I wish you the best, and I am sorry you have been discouraged by our engagements.
*****************
He isn't going anywhere, Dude.
This is about the 5th or 6th time he's "left
this forum to the New Age Ghetto" (that being his
latest term for non-Jesus Freaks, that is.)
He'll be back (full of *impotent* high dudgeon
as always) in a couple months at most. As
sure as "The Sun Also Rises"...

B-man