Alex,

Please delete this thread.  It serves no useful purpose.  You may have issues with the way certain people/groups have interpreted religion.  The teachings of Christ should not be banned.  So this thread is not useful and may offend people.

Doc

Alex,

Please delete this thread.  It serves no useful purpose.  You may have issues with the way certain people/groups have interpreted religion.  The teachings of Christ should not be banned.  So this thread is not useful and may offend people.

Doc
*****************
I'm with him, Doc.
The currect national Christian revival has given us things like
Ronald Reagan, Bush 1 and Bush 2, and the current hopeless
Iraq war, not to mention insane warmongering JEWISH fundamentalism in Israel (encouraged by the American Christian
example!) which will likely completely destabilize the Middle East
and lead to a generalized Third World War. (Maybe if Americans
weren't so RELIGIOUS, they'd be trying to STOP this sh!t instead of
getting all goo-goo-eyed over the "Rapture" or whatever other
idiocy their pastors and priests have been spoon-feeding them...)
Would you like to see your great-grandchildren leaping around
bonfires heaped with radioactive wood, chanting "hooga-booga,
hooga-booga"? Then support American fundamentalism (or to
a (very slightly) lesser extent, Roman Catholicism...

B-man

I also second that, Chum. However, I don't know if religion is to blame. There are systems in place which are almost non-humanly run.  They are outdated, antiquated governmental systems which need to be changed.  The hatred of violence itself and unfairness itself is what we all have in our hearts as the basis of our fears.  

Personally, I think that if someone wants to talk about the fear that they feel because of false teachings about what is sacred, they should be able to do so.  Because a person has such strong feelings does not make that expression wrong.  I think it is a great opening to talk about fear in general, and many of us have opinions on that fear to offer.

But the title is problematic in that it may be challenged or resented.  It is important to note, and for that, thanks, Matthew.

love, blink

Sorry for offending anyone Doc in general.. It's just that most Christians I have met or Christian Preachers they preach about fearing God and what not about fire and brimstone.. I just wish the whole world would make just one religion and that would be the religion of LOVE that's all.. That's all you need.. No more labeling and no more bigotry!  8-)

As a Christian, I'll wager that I'm as well read in New Age thought and the paranormal as anyone here.  By contrast, few of the New Age groupies here have explored competing sides of afterlife issues.  Alex's mindless bigotry is a nice cue for my next departure.  Two more posts at most and I'll leave the site once again to the New Age Ghetto.  I'm disappointed at the lack of critical engagement with my afterlife posts in any case.

Don

Don,

I thought that recent exchanges of late had been quite fruitful, and can't understand why you would leave this site.  Anyone can post here, and one thread like this shouldn't scare you away.


Matthew

As a Christian, I'll wager that I'm as well read in New Age thought and the paranormal as anyone here.  By contrast, few of the New Age groupies here have explored competing sides of afterlife issues.  Alex's mindless bigotry is a nice cue for my next departure.  Two more posts at most and I'll leave the site once again to the New Age Ghetto.  I'm disappointed at the lack of critical engagement with my afterlife posts in any case.

Don
*****************
Don, Don, Don... *(sigh)*
Once again, here you go with your name-calling.
WHAT THE HELL is a "New Age Groupie"?
AlexWolf88 seems to be anything but... he's either
a Christian (albeit a struggling one) OR he is an
incipient atheist. Either way, I don't see crystal
balls, incense, or bean sprouts in his future just
yet.
I suppose you'd call me a New Age Groupie too.
However, I'm only interested in seeing how this
"afterlife and non-Newtonian phenomena" stuff
can be squared with modern SCIENTIFIC thought.
You'd have me throw that all to the winds, and
adopt a magical "God is outside nature, in the
SUPERNATURAL realm, and therefore there are things
which science can NEVER understand" sort of belief
system.
By the time you got done with me, I'd be wanting to
go hunt down witches I suppose... or would I be pestering
my local gunsmith to cast me some silver bullets maybe, to
deal with those pesky werewolves?
SO - just WHO'S the woo-woo magical thinker here, Don?
Is it AlexWolf88, who's turned off by "God the Torture Loony?"
Is is ME, who believes that modern science is a superior way
to understand Reality, than booga-booga magical superstition
is..?
Or is it YOU, Don... is it you???

B-man

Berserk wrote on Jan 27^th, 2007 at 10:28pm:

As a Christian, I'll wager that I'm as well read in New Age thought and the paranormal as anyone here.  By contrast, few of the New Age groupies here have explored competing sides of afterlife issues.  Alex's mindless bigotry is a nice cue for my next departure.  Two more posts at most and I'll leave the site once again to the New Age Ghetto.  I'm disappointed at the lack of critical engagement with my afterlife posts in any case. Don

**********************************************************

Good!! Go home Don. You have been trying for years to sway people on this site into
a flase doctrine...OK People..Go to Christian sites and question them?!! You'll be bounced
off and banned for life in minutes..This is what they are like..."If you are not with us, then
you are against us(evil)" is their horrid creed...World War One and Two, the two biggest
slaughter-house episodes in human history was christian nation against christian nation.
......Go to search and see that the vast majority of Germans were christians during these
periods....This is not to dismiss all the local civil wars and persecutions when
europeans and other christian countries killed, tortured, and jailed those who were of
another christian tradition(catholic/protestant/etc)..Now, this is not to mention those(millions) whose were of non-christian beliefs. Cortez come to mind...I've never heard
of tarot card readers /physics/channelers/ crystal ball gazers/ vegetarians/ numerologists/
original spiritual thinkers/ non-conformists/ humanists/ mediums/ etc, etc, starting a
conflict that killed, maimed, millions of inoccents men, women, and children.... G-Man

Those of you angry with organized religion and how it has been subverted over the eons will glibly say "Ban Christianity!"  or "Ban Judaism!"  If you step back and think about it, this will not solve the problems of the world.  The underlying message of christianity, Judaism, buddhism, is very different from the interpretation of large organizations of people.  Wars will start whether you ban christianity or not.  If you take JC's stories and parables, with few exceptions you are given a philosophy of love, turning the other cheek, and not casting the first stone.  Would you wipe those words of wisdom off the globe?  Burn the books?

Hitler's Germany moved toward a decidedly atheist/pagan religious path under him, and burned many books of knowledge and teaching.

I mentioned deleting this thread because it served no purpose.  I still feel that way.  You could title a thread in the off topic forum "reasons I don't like organized religion" or something like that.  I agree with Blink that your opinions should be heard and expressed.  I don't think this should happen though in a thread titled to offend people of any religion.  That is where my tolerance for freedom of speech ends.

Matthew

People who are inclined to be hard-core fundamentalists hell-bent on a theocracy would be so regardless.  I've heard a lot of pagans state that  "A Fundie is a Fundie, even a pagan Fundie".  Which is a little harder to do, with no one primary book to wave in people's faces, but some still try.  Ban Christianity, wipe any mention of it from history, and people who need that sort of structure and "I'm right you're wrong" moral support will get it elsewhere.  If all the religions of the book disappeared, someone would write another book (think Joseph Smith).

Folks that were raised up that way and don't "fit the mold" tend to leave the fold, others who need the structure go looking for it.  

I understand the tendency to think "ban Christianity", since it's the religion that most of us who have been hassled have been hassled by, but it's just a tool, not really the cause of the problem.  If we didn't have people insisting they were right because the Bible tells them so, we'd as likely have them waving the Book of Mormon or the Koran at us.  I'll stick with the Bible-thumpers, at least I've read that one a couple of times and have some opportunity to argue semi-intelligently.

Please keep in mind, that imposing a wish upon somebody is one of the reasons that we see suffering and persecution.  Observing my familie's Christian background, taking the "ban it" approach would feed energy to the arguement that "Satan has returned to drag us into hell" yet given the diversity of beliefs -- even in Christianity -- there are numeous other possibilities that could take place such as another millitant Cursade being fueled.

I currenty see the best way to handle the situation is to live by example and offer your tips free of charge as I would myself.  If somebody asks how you are so happy, then share your possitive outlook and paradigm with them and tell them what ever you feel necessary give them absolute power over their selves.  In other words, passively display a "higher value" without any judgement of anyone's character.  Make the display interesting enough that people wish to learn from your own experience.

In addition, consider replacing the word "replace" with, "supplement or expand upon."  It is good to recycle not just physical objects.  ;D
Steve_Σd

I'm going to add my reply to this, though I never read the original thread.

1st Isn't it harsh to say that Christianity should be banned when ALL religions seem to have their good & bad points and good & bad followers. The problem with all religions is that the message recieved is dependant upon the person recieving it, if everyone was made from the same mold there wouldn't be a problem, but we are all different.

2nd it is virtually IMPOSSIBLE to actually 'ban' anything, all you can do is disrupt it and drive it underground and hope that in the long term it dies out.

Yo - Seems like a few people are experiencing the 'dark night of the spirit' here with their judgment on Christianity ;)

I think it is helpful to understand exactly what the Christ event did for humanity.  Before Christ died on the Cross and gave up His Holy Ghost into the spiritual world (the realm of our spiritual world that is); when people went to sleep or when they died their spirits were divided into a thousand pieces (literally) - for there was no guided path or midnight sun to light the way home.  At sleep people spent the entire time in the spirit world finding their fragments of spirit before they woke up, quite exhusting and terrifying I believe.  When they died - they spent eons trying to find the various fragments of themselves - possibly to no avail ending up as one who bows down to numerous false idols.

Christ sacrificed His Etheric Body (for His is way more powerful then ours) so that when we today go to sleep or when we die and call upon His name we are at one within ourselves and this frees us to be whole in the spirit world.

Today, people may take this for granted but our spirits before the Christ event were like dust in the wind blown any which way.  Christ offers His Light for anyone who asks for it in the Spirit world.

And for this you hate him without a cause?

Romans 10:11
For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Let us be a peace with each other and together with the Spirit of Christ bring peace to the world for bringing peace to our world is beyond us human who cannot even sit at a table in peace without vanity and puff up ness.

:)

Augo


Quote:

I think it is helpful to understand exactly what the Christ event did for humanity.  Before Christ died on the Cross and gave up His Holy Ghost into the spiritual world (the realm of our spiritual world that is); when people went to sleep or when they died their spirits were divided into a thousand pieces (literally) - for there was no guided path or midnight sun to light the way home.  At sleep people spent the entire time in the spirit world finding their fragments of spirit before they woke up, quite exhusting and terrifying I believe.  When they died - they spent eons trying to find the various fragments of themselves - possibly to no avail ending up as one who bows down to numerous false idols.

Can I ask where you've got this from???

Irene

Meow Irene  ;)

http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/MysGol_index.html

"Man must be secretly diseased to be an atheist"

I pulled this quote directly from the page you directed Black Panther to visit, Augo.  This kind of statement, taken out of context, can cause certain people to immediately discard any illumination they might find there.

I don't know any more about Steiner than I read on Wikepedia, but his style of writing may be a little difficult for an average lay person to understand and accept. However, I do understand the basic thrust of the page I read, and much of it does make sense to me when I view it a certain way.

What I received from the page you referenced is a description of wholeness...of feeling the depth and richness of life itself without separation.  This feeling of wholeness is one which creates in a human being such gratitude that the person cannot contain it....the person feels the presence of God, or simply of something much vaster than themselves...a person experiences an order and beauty and naturalness to creation...and is able to embrace it.

However, I would also like to hear more about your understanding of this "fragmentation" of which you spoke. I have never heard of this historical process you describe, and I would like to hear an explanation which considers that I may not be able to take simply on faith the idea that the "light" that so many describe "is" the historical Jesus.  

love, blink

Hi Blink and Irene (again)  

To understand the point we get up to with the coming of the Christian Era one needs to research before this and briefly the prior era’s up to this time are;

The Planetary Incarnations of
Saturn
Sun
Moon
Earth
Atlantis
The end of Atlantis
Ancient Indian Civilization
Ancient Persian Civilization
Egypto-Chaldean Civilization
Greco-Latin Civilization
The Christian Era
And further
Cosmic and Human evolution now and in the future.

All the above are in a historical spiritual content.

So, responding to your question is taking it out content and it is good to study the above to have a clearer understanding but briefly The Mystery of Golgotha; The Christ Event on Earth.

We learn the spiritual world does not only comprise of Man; in the spiritual worlds we have Man (incarnate, disincarnate) Angels and the Luciferic (illusional state) and Ahrimanic (materialistic state) influences.  

Now, before Christ came Man’s spirits where (and still are) in the clutches of the Luciferic and Ahrimanic influences in the Spirit world.

As human beings increasingly turned their interests toward the physical world of senses, during the post-Atlantean period, it became more possible for Ahriman to work his way into their souls during earthly life and then retain this power beyond death.

During life on Earth, Ahriman’s power makes us see physical, sense-perceptible existence as the only one and blocks our view into the spiritual world.  In the spiritual world, this power makes us completely isolated and focuses all our interests on ourselves.

On the other hand Luciferic powers influence a dreamy state upon us while on Earth and when in the spiritual world this influence relates to images of imagination which come before us.

When the Christ had undergone death on the cross, He appeared in the world where soul’s lingered after death and set limits on the Ahriman and Luciferic powers, illuminating the regions that the Greeks had called ‘the kingdom of shades’ with a spiritual bolt of lightning that showed its inhabitants that the light was meant to enter it again.  This is what was accomplished on behalf of the physical world through Christ’s death on the Cross casting His light into the spiritual world.

The myth of Osiris being cut into a thousand pieces by his brother Set and put together by his wife Isis is a ‘forerunner prophecy’ of this event.

I hope I've explained it well enough - it is a piece out of the whole and also it must be understood the Luciferic and Ahrimanic influences do have a part in Creation.

I enjoyed what you wrote Blink about the wholeness ... lovely.

C.

Sure there are some negative things that have been done in the name of Christianity, but don't blame that on God, Jesus and all of the wonderful Christians that have lived.  The Christians I know are good people. Partly because of their faith they won't end up in a hell like realm when they die.

If a person insists on focusing on the negativity that has occurred, how are they going to see the positive?

To all open-minded site members:

Tomorrow (Tuesday) will be my last day of posting here.   But the obnoxious anti-Christan ravings of Chumley and Dude deserve a detailed refutation.  After some initial clarifying discussion, I have refrained from a more comprehensive refutation out of respect for the purpose of this section of Bruce's site.   So far Chumley and Dude have understandably refused to accept my challenge and shift this debate to the Off Topic section out of respect for those who would prefer this section to be devoted to afterlife issues.  It is my assumption that most of you would prefer that the subject be dropped and I want to respect that wish.  However, I may be wrong: many of you may want me to refute their arguments on the Off Topic thread.  Frankly, I'd rather not bother, given the dogmatism, close-mindedness, and innocent naivite of Chumley and Dude.  But if my assumption is wrong, let me know by PM.  Otherwise, tomorrow will be my last day of posting for a few months.

Don

Don:

Chumley and Dude aren't the only people who read this forum, so don't leave on their account.

Also, sometimes it takes time for seeds to sprout. If they are good seeds, they are bound to sprout. Sometimes in a different field than you expect.

recoverer,

I want to get back to my practice with my Gateway CDs.   I have achieved the state "mind awake/ body asleep."  The toxic personalities of Chumley, Dude, and others here puts my mind in a polemical mode which does not seem conducive to the inner harmony needed for such exploration.  Still,  I would engage them polemically if I thought they were intellectually honest, open-minded, and willing to consider other perspectives.  Sadly, that does not seem to be the case.  

Don

I heard on the news recently of a speaker on the Holocaust, who, when confronted with statements about the Holocaust being a myth while she was speaking, shouted out "your grandmother was a criminal!" to the heckler.  Each time the heckler shouted, she shouted this phrase back.  Finally, the heckler went quiet, puzzled, not understanding how this speaker could have known his grandmother or what she had done, and not being able to prove the contrary anyway.  The speaker waited, then she then pointed out, that when you have someone giving a ridiculous argument in a way that can not be proved, there is nothing you can say to that will support the truth without doubt.  Holocaust deniers are like this, as are those who throw slander about (note - she was doing this to make a point).  

One can pull segments from the bible out of context of violence, carnage, incest, and all the rest.  This certainly does not mean that either the old or new testament teach those who read it to go by these examples.  So, I have not answered Brendan's challenge to me about dashing children's heads on a rock and rejoicing in the Psalm he mentioned.  I don't pretend to know how each historical instance or quote got into either testament.  No one believes that the entire texts are not written by men.  Therefore, no one should be impressed if unusual verses come out of it in a violent way.

As to your rebutting them in a thread, Don.....why bother?  A few examples on the meaning of ancient texts, and how taking things out of context changes the meaning are enough for me.  I am just not sure why you need to take your leave.  Your topics were well received, and you fulfilled one of the main objectives of those who wish to express PUL, which is giving assistance and showing the way.  Lets not forget the posting here is not just for our own private searching, but our thoughts may assist others (and their thoughts may assist us).

Pesonally, I am for deleting any antichristian threads, and moving on with you still on board, Don.

Matthew

Don, I think that if you are beginning to feel that your private work with the Gateway tapes is important to you and that frequent debating is limiting you, then you should trust your intuition about that.

I am very interested in whatever you feel comfortable sharing about your meditation experiences of this kind, and I'm sure many others will be also, if you choose to share some of them.

Of course, you might consider staying and simply debate less frequently or less strenuously if that is your choice, and if it helps you to continue the exploration you are doing.

I have quite a bit of appreciation for you, and you are missed by many when you are away.  

I agree with Matthew that your recent threads have received many responses and appear to be very much enjoyed by some. I have not read some of the sources you have cited yet but I now feel the need to make a comprehensive list of reading I would like to do, and I will include a few of the works you have mentioned, of course.  

Just as a coincidence, I picked up a book I had on a shelf yesterday while reorganizing and found that I hadn't finished it in my flurry of hasty reading on astral travel a year and a half ago.  To my surprise the title of the chapter, which was marked as my stopping place, was the beginning of a name just recently adopted by a returning member, AhSo. Maybe you recognize it.

love, blink

recoverer wrote on Jan 29^th, 2007 at 12:45pm:

Sure there are some negative things that have been done in the name of Christianity, but don't blame that on God, Jesus and all of the wonderful Christians that have lived.  The Christians I know are good people. Partly because of their faith they won't end up in a hell like realm when they die. If a person insists on focusing on the negativity that has occurred, how are they going to see the positive?

I'm not blaming God! Or Jesus they are not the problem. The man has swayed people into lies about God and damnation! I know there are great Christians out there!! I just don't like what some of them got to say about God and hell... The only other Christian group I agree with is the Universalist! But they are considered heretics !! Which is laughable if you ask me.. Just because their doctrine of hell is only temporary!! I am a New age person and damn proud of it! But you don't see me go around and cram my beliefs down people's throats!

You know why I got such beef with Christianity? Because people who think they are going to hell of fire and brimstone end up getting that for a brief period time.. Since, we create our own heaven or hell ! Who preaches that ??? Christians! Because they tell people who don't go to church or don't pray every day or weren't baptized are going to burn in hell.. Once you get that told to you so many times you start to doubt!

I wasn't going to add on to this, but for some reason I get told to delete my first topic, which I did delete.. But others who are against me get to add on for some reason?? So, there's my two cents! I was going to stop and I already said I was sorry but there you have it!

Berserk wrote on Jan 29^th, 2007 at 1:29pm:

To all open-minded site members: Tomorrow (Tuesday) will be my last day of posting here.   But the obnoxious anti-Christan ravings of Chumley and Dude deserve a detailed refutation.  After some initial clarifying discussion, I have refrained from a more comprehensive refutation out of respect for the purpose of this section of Bruce's site.   So far Chumley and Dude have understandably refused to accept my challenge and shift this debate to the Off Topic section out of respect for those who would prefer this section to be devoted to afterlife issues.  It is my assumption that most of you would prefer that the subject be dropped and I want to respect that wish.  However, I may be wrong: many of you may want me to refute their arguments on the Off Topic thread.  Frankly, I'd rather not bother, given the dogmatism, close-mindedness, and innocent naivite of Chumley and Dude.  But if my assumption is wrong, let me know by PM.  Otherwise, tomorrow will be my last day of posting for a few months. Don

Yo, I wanted to stop this debate! That's why I deleted my first post! I am a newbie here so I didn't no this wasn't the right place to post it at... I am done with this debate because it will just turn into a pissing contest! I just wanted to get this off my chest! I didn't want to start a big fuss! I am just worried about my cousin who commited suicide last April! Because what if she thought she was going to hell of fire and brimstone! And we all know who preaches about a hell like that and about a sadistic God! Unfortuanately, if she thought that she would get that horrible place... From what I understand from reading this site and other new age sites and from talking to well rounded psychics! Also, from studying about the holographic universe..
And also an ungodly amount of time on near-death.com!

I'm sorry again! I Just needed to vent my anger out, since this is the only place I can have people know what I'm talking about... BTW I have Christian friends and I just dislike what most of them got up their sleeves about preaching stuff down people's throats!!

Alex:

I don't like fire and brimstone and eternal damnation talk either. When it comes to Don,  he tends to post verses which state that eternal damnation isn't true.

My feeling is that people are more likely to end up in a hell like realm because they have become unloving people, rather than because of what they believe. For example, if a man goes through his whole life believing he's going to go to heaven for being a child molester because he's only sharing love, his way of being will determine where he's going rather than his delusional belief.

Interesting ideas and as I have subtlely mentioned, I have had my Christian ideas archived for a while and was kind of upset over all of the misrepresentation of many divine ideas but Berserk and Augo really helped me begin to make my peace with my past upbringing.  What I really want is to become proficent in seeing the gems that truly did come from heaven and putting the "thou shall not or you will suffer for eternity" behind me.

Given the frequency that Jesus-related artifacts pop up in physical life away from home, things get interesting.  I will continue to listen in on the conversation;  This should add some very helpful assisstance to my afterlife explorations.   :)

My desire to be 100% original has been getting in the way of my learning lately.   :-/

Steve_Σd

augoeideian wrote on Jan 29^th, 2007 at 10:55am:

Hi Blink and Irene (again)   When the Christ had undergone death on the cross, He appeared in the world where soul’s lingered after death and set limits on the Ahriman and Luciferic powers, illuminating the regions that the Greeks had called ‘the kingdom of shades’ with a spiritual bolt of lightning that showed its inhabitants that the light was meant to enter it again.  This is what was accomplished on behalf of the physical world through Christ’s death on the Cross casting His light into the spiritual world. The myth of Osiris being cut into a thousand pieces by his brother Set and put together by his wife Isis is a ‘forerunner prophecy’ of this event. C.

C,

Thank you for your explanation.  I find the above part very interesting to picture in my mind.  And it brings up a puzzle of mine.  A friend has been working (or not working) on a painting for 4 years for a friend who insisted on particular imagery in this piece.  It had to be this way, down to the smallest details.

The painting shows a nude woman swimming under the sea in the lower center.  A shark follows her on the left.  She is swimming toward an underwater cavern to the right.  Behind and to the left is a pyramid. From the dark clouds above the ocean a lightening bolt is striking the ocean and penetrating the depths, which are very dark and murky.  The cavern and the pyramid appear illuminated, as well as the woman and the shark.

I don't understand the symbolism, but my friend would like to understand it and has had some difficulty completing the painting because he doesn't, I suspect.  Maybe you or someone else here can help with that?

love, blink

recoverer wrote on Jan 29^th, 2007 at 3:37pm:

Alex: I don't like fire and brimstone and eternal damnation talk either. When it comes to Don,  he tends to post verses which state that eternal damnation isn't true. My feeling is that people are more likely to end up in a hell like realm because they have become unloving people, rather than because of what they believe. For example, if a man goes through his whole life believing he's going to go to heaven for being a child molester because he's only sharing love, his way of being will determine where he's going rather than his delusional belief.

True that! I should of made myself more clear.. I should of put the law of attraction in there too..

Alex,

Bruce Moen, this website's owner has posting guidelines that basically ask all of us to try to have respect for each other.  I sure your intentions were as you say... not intending to cause a big fuss.

Many of us here came from religious backgrounds similar to the hellfire and brimstone philosophy.  My grandfather, a minister was this type of preacher.  When my brother died, my grandfather condemned him to hell from the pulpit both at his funeral and the next Sunday in front of the congregation.  That was enough for me to leave the church.  

I have learned much from Don.  He does a very fine job of bringing new age thought and Biblical teachings together.  We asked Don to be respectful of us and from what I have seen, he certainly has been.  I would also ask for the rest of us to be respectful of him as well.  

Don, I'm sorry to hear you're planning to leave.  My time is short these days, but I had planned to respond to your post on the other ADC thread.  I can PM you when I have more time though.

Kathy  

 

Don't worry too much about feeling overly responsible for the thread, Alex...it gets like this sometimes here on this forum because so many ideas pass through here, and you just never know what will happen.

This thread has gone off on several different tangents, and we do try to avoid that, but sometimes it's fun to just see where it goes.  It just seems to be how we get things done sometimes.

love, blink

Don,


You should stay I'm sorry for offending you! I won't post anything anti-religious ever again..\

Peace

wrote on Jan 29^th, 2007 at 4:31pm:

Don't worry too much about feeling overly responsible for the thread, Alex...it gets like this sometimes here on this forum because so many ideas pass through here, and you just never know what will happen. This thread has gone off on several different tangents, and we do try to avoid that, but sometimes it's fun to just see where it goes.  It just seems to be how we get things done sometimes. love, blink

Blink,

I see what you mean. I like the diversity in ideas as well.. Yeah, it is kind of fun to see what everyone has to say! lol Especially, Chum he cracks me up! Hopefully, this will workout and Don will stay..

peace

Hi Don please stay on here i really enjoy reading your posts and i have gained knowledge from them as well,me and Deanna both want you to stay.

Love and God bless you Don   Love juditha and deanna the twins  

Quote:

I think it is helpful to understand exactly what the Christ event did for humanity.  Before Christ died on the Cross and gave up His Holy Ghost into the spiritual world (the realm of our spiritual world that is); when people went to sleep or when they died their spirits were divided into a thousand pieces (literally) - for there was no guided path or midnight sun to light the way home.  At sleep people spent the entire time in the spirit world finding their fragments of spirit before they woke up, quite exhusting and terrifying I believe.  When they died - they spent eons trying to find the various fragments of themselves - possibly to no avail ending up as one who bows down to numerous false idols. Christ sacrificed His Etheric Body (for His is way more powerful then ours) so that when we today go to sleep or when we die and call upon His name we are at one within ourselves and this frees us to be whole in the spirit world.

I'm sorry, but I can't help but comment on how rediculous this sounds.  Obviously an outlandish interpretation of the "Jesus died for our sins" saying.  This theory does not put into account the fact that we existed before our lives on earth; it makes absolutely no sense that our souls would magically burst into a thousand different parts after our lives on earth.  Totally rediculous!  Noone would ever desire to have an eartly life if this was to be our fate.  

"I think it is helpful to understand exactly what the Christ event did for humanity.  Before Christ died on the Cross and gave up His Holy Ghost into the spiritual world (the realm of our spiritual world that is); when people went to sleep or when they died their spirits were divided into a thousand pieces (literally) - for there was no guided path or midnight sun to light the way home.  At sleep people spent the entire time in the spirit world finding their fragments of spirit before they woke up, quite exhusting and terrifying I believe.  When they died - they spent eons trying to find the various fragments of themselves - possibly to no avail ending up as one who bows down to numerous false idols.

Christ sacrificed His Etheric Body (for His is way more powerful then ours) so that when we today go to sleep or when we die and call upon His name we are at one within ourselves and this frees us to be whole in the spirit world."

augoeideian,

Without questioning the integrity of Herr Steiner, I will say that interpreting things seen in five dimensions for others who live in four is problematic in the extreme. Having said that, I have yet to hear anything that validates the above from the numerous Afterlife explorers who, these days, are more numerous and accessible than in Steiner's day. Nothing in my experience validates this, either.

Forgive me, but if we allow ourselves to be easily taken in by people of his era who were intelligent and charismatic, then we shouldn't look down upon "Satanists" (Alistair Crowley) and Neo-Nazis. While I'm sure you aren't a Nazi or a "Satanist", and neither was Steiner, there is little difference between Steiner, Crowley, and Hitler from a belief system standpoint. This is because being convinced by someone who was intelligent and well spoken is not the same as knowing yourself from direct personal experience. This applies when we read the works of ALL the philosophers, mystics, and prophets of all the world's belief systems, whatever their intentions. This is why TMI invites all to come and see for themselves, because believing and knowing are not the same.

I think there is ample evidence from the accounts of Afterlife explorers, hypno-therapists, and others to say that what Herr Steiner said above is decidedly untrue.

I apologize if what I wrote hurt or offended you. Also, I'm not saying that everything Herr Steiner said is false. And he was, at the very least, a very interesting individual who 'stirred the pot' among the people of his day, a pot that desperately needed stirring, and for that we all owe him a debt of gratitude.

Love,
Rob

I Am Dude wrote on Jan 29^th, 2007 at 8:23pm:

Quote: I think it is helpful to understand exactly what the Christ event did for humanity.  Before Christ died on the Cross and gave up His Holy Ghost into the spiritual world (the realm of our spiritual world that is); when people went to sleep or when they died their spirits were divided into a thousand pieces (literally) - for there was no guided path or midnight sun to light the way home.  At sleep people spent the entire time in the spirit world finding their fragments of spirit before they woke up, quite exhusting and terrifying I believe.  When they died - they spent eons trying to find the various fragments of themselves - possibly to no avail ending up as one who bows down to numerous false idols. Christ sacrificed His Etheric Body (for His is way more powerful then ours) so that when we today go to sleep or when we die and call upon His name we are at one within ourselves and this frees us to be whole in the spirit world. I'm sorry, but I can't help but comment on how rediculous this sounds.  Obviously an outlandish interpretation of the "Jesus died for our sins" saying.  This theory does not put into account the fact that we existed before our lives on earth; it makes absolutely no sense that our souls would magically burst into a thousand different parts after our lives on earth.  Totally rediculous!  Noone would ever desire to have an eartly life if this was to be our fate.

Yes, Dude, but I was kind of perked up by her ideas here. My first reaction was, of course, this is ridiculous... (sorry, Augo, just being honest)....but my second thought was that I was really intrigued by the imagery she brought forth, and I wanted to understand it in a deeper way.  I feel that we are ALL connected, and that it is important for us to listen closely.

There are clues here. We are here for a reason, and each of us has a piece of truth to contribute.  Not one of us has the whole truth. EACH of us HAS truth to offer each other.  

The question is: how do we see it? That has become fascinating to me.

love, blink

Heya  :)

Blink your friends painting sounds very moving and speaks to the soul.  Anyone who looks at it will interpret it in their own way with their own understanding of the symbolism.

Rob-Roy;  thanks for your well worded reply on Dr. Steiner's work.  However, I do say he cannot be lumped together with Crowley or Hitler - I think that is a bit below the belt.  The man was a genius and for this should be respected for the knowledge he brought into the world.  He was clearly firing on all rockets in his genius hood.

I did write his autobiography last year and just paste the link again.  He did a huge about of work not only his clairvoyance work but practical work on the ground helping people.  He also translated Goethe's entire works - and that does say something.  But if you feel his studies are not for you hey no problem - his work is complex and sometimes needs a certain tuning in to really understand his genius.  If it does not resonant than rather leave it.  But i say he knew what he was talking about. lol. ok i'll keep quite now.

http://www.afterlife-knowledge.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.cgi?num=1161852687

Don, If i may write my PM to you here.  I know how you feel and we are mere humans I often wonder how Jesus must have felt.  His teachings and healings have showed us how much he loved people even though they hurt him so much with their unbelief and lack of knowledge. He is a fine example of leadership and are we not blessed to have him come to Earth.  Don I believe that we both love the Bible; let God's word be with us.  Your presence here is appreciated and highly respected.  C.

BORING.  YAWN.  

Yeah, yeah, I get it already.  Somebody(s) can't stand organized religion and has to start a post about how much they can't stand blah, blah, blah...

I heard a funny song that goes something like...

"Praise the Lord and pass the amunition
Praise the Lord and pass the amunition
Praise the Lord and pass the amunition and we'll all stay free"

I don't know why I posted this.  I guess I just didn't want to go by without making some sort of post.

If you have read this far, congratulations!  Your time has been officially wasted by a few seconds.  I feel better now.

Rob_Roy wrote on Jan 29^th, 2007 at 8:26pm:

augoeideian, Without questioning the integrity of Herr Steiner, I will say that interpreting things seen in five dimensions for others who live in four is problematic in the extreme. Having said that, I have yet to hear anything that validates the above from the numerous Afterlife explorers who, these days, are more numerous and accessible than in Steiner's day. Nothing in my experience validates this, either. Forgive me, but if we allow ourselves to be easily taken in by people of his era who were intelligent and charismatic, then we shouldn't look down upon "Satanists" (Alistair Crowley) and Neo-Nazis. While I'm sure you aren't a Nazi or a "Satanist", and neither was Steiner, there is little difference between Steiner, Crowley, and Hitler from a belief system standpoint. This is because being convinced by someone who was intelligent and well spoken is not the same as knowing yourself from direct personal experience. This applies when we read the works of ALL the philosophers, mystics, and prophets of all the world's belief systems, whatever their intentions. This is why TMI invites all to come and see for themselves, because believing and knowing are not the same. I think there is ample evidence from the accounts of Afterlife explorers, hypno-therapists, and others to say that what Herr Steiner said above is decidedly untrue. I apologize if what I wrote hurt or offended you. Also, I'm not saying that everything Herr Steiner said is false. And he was, at the very least, a very interesting individual who 'stirred the pot' among the people of his day, a pot that desperately needed stirring, and for that we all owe him a debt of gratitude. Love, Rob

Hi Rob and all,

 I do agree with your general message, and i always keep in mind that those like Steiner, Cayce, Moen, Monroe, McKnight, Swedenborg, etc, are all messengers but who still have/had ego and filters while in the body and relaying info.   Until someone remembers, and fully becomes and aligns to Source consciousness again, there will be errors, misinterpretations, and occasional (if only slight in some respects) skewing of info.   Such a person fully aligned to Source would have a pure White Light filled aura (like Yeshua), and none of those people i just mentioned fit that criteria.  Perhaps the saying, "a grain of salt" applies to some extent?

 At the same time, we should also question ourselves and our belief systems and perceptions, not just other messengers.  

 If you really think about it, take Monroe's or Moen's info for a moment, and their philosophy which is similar to yours stated in the above, e.g. look for your own experiences, etc.   While they may say and believe this, if you really think about it, a good chunk of their info actually comes from other entities (usually nonphysical guide types) telling them something about either the nonphysical or physical, and them passing it along to us.  You could take the above philosophy to the extreme and then say, well who's to say these guides have a clue, or are accurate on things, why should we believe them since we're not actually knowing by direct experience but rather through communication...

 But if we became that stringent in our criteria of so called "direct knowing", then most of us, would have very little to talk about!   Even Monroe and Moen, whom have had a fair share of nonphysical experiences, etc.  

 It's a fine balance, and involves a lot of feeling of other's info, and the energy levels that they are operating from when giving that info.  

  Anyways, back to Steiner, while i don't 100% completely agree with Steiner's specific info on this subject, or Augo's interpretation(s) of same, i do believe that Steiner was definitely on to something in his perceptions and shouldn't be so lightly dismissed.  

  Back up for this, comes from a seemingly unconnected source to Steiner, and actually stems from TMI in a sense. ;)  How ironic eh.

 In Cosmic Journey's written by Rosiland McKnight, her guides (whom i sense to be on a very intune and Source realized "level" for lack of a better term), talk about Love energy and the deep importance of same on page 224.  

 They then talk about Jesus, calling him the great love guardian of our planet, and saying that he came from the highest God energy to teach love.   They essentially say that it was the immensity, depth, intensity, and pureness of his love energy which caused him to be crucified, which in turn polarized the collective fear energies of the Earth.

 They say that his spirit was released into the world to transform all fear and all fear barriers, and that this is known as the Holy Spirit, and that this event, this being/spirit has greatly facilitated the Earth's evolution, and has been the driving force leading the Earth and its inhabitants towards the thousand years of peace and eventual spiritual intuneness amongst the masses/collective.

 So, in some respects, it seems that Steiner and Rosie's guides are saying a similar thing, though i definitely disagree with the whole
Quote:

or when they died their spirits were divided into a thousand pieces (literally) - for there was no guided path or midnight sun to light the way home.  At sleep people spent the entire time in the spirit world finding their fragments of spirit before they woke up, quite exhusting and terrifying I believe....

 To me, this if taken literally, does not make complete sense.   Yet, the fact that we are temporarily fragmented, is true enough.  Allegorically, it definitely could make sense.  If we follow Yeshua's pattern, who was up till then the only one to fully achieve pure Source consciousness while still in physical, then we like him will become Whole again.

 From another source, the Cayce readings, his guides strongly and consistently assert that Yeshua and this Total self, is the pattern of spiritual evolution in the Earth, the only perfect pattern and the best to follow whatever one's background (this source spoke very highly of other teachers like the Buddha, but said that even these were but stepping stones to the knowledge of the Son in their life).  This source also indicates that Yeshua before the physical Earth was even manifested, was the first to achieve Oneness with Source (sounds a lot like Bruce's info about the first returned Spark and the Planning Intelligence, no?), and that his entrance in the Earth was a voluntary Retrieval mission, and then he also became the first within the Earth to again achieve spiritual perfection and who as Yeshua completely converted his physical matter into pure Light energy.   In doing so, he became the pattern for all humans, and whether they believe in him or not, he still helps them.   Cayce's source indicated that this Soul is the advocate of the Father aspect of Spirit and is always in direct and conscious communion with our Higher/Total selves, and with collective Spirit.

 There is much depth of mystery to this Jesus character and to what he means to Earth and to our Souls in general.  However, as he said himself, all power comes from what he called the Father (many seem to prefer Source), and all praise should be given to same.   Not even to him who is the pure representative and messenger of same, to whom other Masters and the Arch Angels bow in both respect and love.  You could say that this Spirit is the Guide of all guides, the main director so to speak.

 Miriam his mother btw, was said by this source, to be Yeshua's "Twin Soul", meaning that they were originally of the same Disk/I there/Total Self before becoming involved with the duality based Earth system.    All of our immediate Disk's split into two main ones (we also have more than 2, 8 total in relation to the ELS, which in turn are connected to 8 major dimensions connected to the ELS), when we became entangled in with the ELS.   So Mary and Jesus, were/are basically the same Soul Entity, though yet individual and unique.   This closeness, and powerful innate unity/Oneness between them, is according to Cayce's guides, the main reason other than their mutual deep spiritual developement (being Twin Souls they were on a very similar level or rate of vibration), for her being able to conceive Yeshua in the unusual manner that she did.  

 While i deeply love and respect Yeshua, and what he means to all of us, i kind of feel that many of the threads started lately, should probably go to the off topic section out of courtesy to the many varied belief systems here.   While i sometimes become too attached to the personhood of Yeshua myself, i believe he is not to be worshipped, no one aspect of Spirit should be, but rather always emphasis on the Universal, this is the Christ pattern within us all, Oneness and the Universal application and knowingness of this objective and eternal truth.  If we concentrate unduly on him and especially his personality and life as a man, then this can only but limit us.  My feeling or hunch is that he wants us to be aware of his pattern and example (for there is no higher or more intune in the Earth), to learn from same (if we are at all attracted to and open to it), but to concentrate on living it ourselves and to focus more on Source and attuning to that within ourselves.

Nice post AhSoLao

I agree when you say we must look at our own experiences; we believe and trust we have come this far in Creation and it has been stepping stone upon stepping stone.  I think it is also important to be accountable and responsible for oneself in the bigger scheme of things - this saying I do think there is a frame work and guidelines - for our own good and safety and working within the universal framework and seeing the temple is within oneself and not without oneself - one does become in sync and stands in that mighty river, forever flowing, never the same but from one source.

Justin have you noticed it is not the Christians who accuse the (un)Christians?  The accusing comes from those who fear?
I think anyone's relationship with Christ is personal and for someone to attack this relationship is quite unmannered because having a personal relationship within is a sign of evolvement and development within the cosmos. To be frank.

I enjoyed your writings on Creation. The thousand pieces is quite dramatic but if we think of all our different thoughts during the day drifting out when we sleep in a random way without sequence it is is scenario.  Our thoughts still do this at sleep and indeed before Christ came our thoughts did this (btw. I do believe the Christ comes in every Zodiac age) however, now we have sequence and in the past the stage of evolution certain freedom of random growth was needed to become what we are today.

Yes, Edgar Cayce in his 'Life story of Jesus' did say Mary and Jesus are twin-souls, for this I can believe.  He does say They also are Adam and Eve.  The Atlantis book i have says Jesus Arbal and twin soul Arbel are brother and sister to Osiris and Isis and they are the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve.  Interesting.

I wouldn't mind reading R. McKnights book from what I have heard you say on her work it does sound 'connected'.

I like your tag!  This is just it our energy vibration pattern wrapped up in those numbers.  I see your Moon is in Aries - lol mine too.  My signature then would be: 01/28/66 harare zimbabwe no 6 life path.  lol.
Yo Aries what a sign! Sun Leo, Mercury Cancer retro, Venus Virgo, Mars Capricorn retro, Jupiter Pisces retro, Saturn Sag retro, Uranus Sat retro, Neptune Capricorn retro, Pluto Scorpio, North Node Aries retro.

Nice line up. Lots of retrogrades; meaning pause and reflect - very profound.  Scorpio in Pluto is intensively psychic.  Capricorn in Mars is a strong placement. Cancer in Mercury suggests a caring nature and also at home within oneself. Virgo in Venus is beautiful.  Pisces in Jupiter is profound.  Sag in Saturn is also strong showing the height. Sag in Uranus suggesting creativity.  Cap in Neptune shows discipline.   North node Aries - interesting, moving towards the start?

Well a general summary from my side!  Cos' have to look at the houses and aspects.

Cheers.

PS:  CHUMLEY come on give us your birthdate and we can interpretate you - come on I dare you!

:)

Hi Chumley and OOBD  God was around from the beginning of time,when our planet collided with another planet and our earth started to evolve God took over and created spirit"Hence what we are to this day (SPIRIT)as the planet did not create the spirit God did.Earth is just the solid mass for us to learn on and to walk on and thats why God gave us this planet.

Our real home is the spirit world,that is why when we die we have finished our quest on earth and we go home to Gods beautiful heaven.I have always beleived in myself that this is what its all about.

Its like whats said by the preist at a funeral"Man has but a short time to live"and thats true and then its eternal happiness in heaven,unless you make the choice to reincarnate and try again,but that wouldnt be one of my options.

God is love.

Love and God bless      Love Juditha

Regarding the planning intelligence Bruce Moen spoke to, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a connection between this planning intelligence and Jesus. Whatever the case, I know that my spirit guidance, which doesn't appear in the form of a body based person, really emphasizes Jesus Christ.

 Hi there Augo,

Thank you for the thoughtful reply.  Yes, i have observed that about non-Christians here lately.   However, in some respects its understandable.  Many folks have had Christian religion shoved down their throats by others, many folks sense that there is a lot of dogma and corruption in and related to mainstream Christian religions.

 All true, and yet there has been a lot of good done in the world by those who called themselves Christian.  But i can understand and look past negative reactions to this belief system, especially because the more dogmatic aspects of it.  Someday all folks will realize though, that to concentrate on the negatives, dislike or hate things, etc. will hold them back spiritually whatever they happen to call themselves in this brief and temporal physical life.

 As regards my chart, us Americans use dates a little differently than much of the rest of the world.   I know many of my European friends, will put the day first, then the month, but we do it the other way around.   My  b-day is January 8th, 1980 with Leo Rising, and Jupiter in Virgo the closest planet to same.   Libra Moon at 3 degrees (Virgo N. Node/Pisces S. Node).  

 Lord no, not Aries Moon lol, j/k, my partner does have Aries Moon though.  Emotionally she is bit of a 'fire-cracker' at times!   I'm the lazy, procrastinating, and sometimes too passive Libra Moon type and who needs to always "talk things out" much to her usual dislike.

 All the best Caryn

Regarding the last sentence of the below, I believe it is true.  I found that when I stopped associating Jesus with some of the negative parts of fundamentalism,  a block in my heart chakra cleared, and one night I had what I believe to be a visit of the presence of Christ, and the energetic pathway at the back of my head from my neck to crown chakras was worked on and made more clear and open.  It is as if there is a special channel for the presence of Christ.

Regarding the negative parts of fundamentalism, this is one of the reasons for which it is good if Don hangs around.  People who know how to interpret scriptures in a positive manner don't grow on trees.   But I understand if he has other responsibilities.  

[quote author=AhSoLaoTsuAhhOmmra link=1169936541/30#43 date=1170180438]  Hi there Augo,

Thank you for the thoughtful reply.  Yes, i have observed that about non-Christians here lately.   However, in some respects its understandable.  Many folks have had Christian religion shoved down their throats by others, many folks sense that there is a lot of dogma and corruption in and related to mainstream Christian religions.

 All true, and yet there has been a lot of good done in the world by those who called themselves Christian.  But i can understand and look past negative reactions to this belief system, especially because the more dogmatic aspects of it.  Someday all folks will realize though, that to concentrate on the negatives, dislike or hate things, etc. will hold them back spiritually whatever they happen to call themselves in this brief and temporal physical life.

recoverer wrote on Jan 30^th, 2007 at 1:24pm:

Regarding the planning intelligence Bruce Moen spoke to, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a connection between this planning intelligence and Jesus. Whatever the case, I know that my spirit guidance, which doesn't appear in the form of a body based person, really emphasizes Jesus Christ.

 I know this may sound rather dogmatic and intolerant to a percentage of folks here, but since i feel the truth of it, i will say it outloud (in this life, its important for me to more speak my mind and to not be so repressed, within myself, and concerned with what others may think--Libra Moon con Virgo Saturn, Pisces South Node in the 7th..).   Honestly, i'm not religious in the usual sense of the word at all, have always been more universal oriented in nature.

 Many psychics, mediums, and sensitives in general went to Edgar Cayce to have readings done for them.  Over the years, he had some very talented and intune people get some psychic readings, folks who could see auras, folks who had OBE's, various mediums, folks who had visions, powerful dreamers, psychically inspired inventors like Tesla, etc.  

 Psychism was obviously a big subject in the readings in general.

 A person once asked what is a good criteria for knowing whether or not a medium or psychic channel and/or especially their nonphysical guide(s) is of a faster vibrating, more constructive, and expanded source or not.   Cayce's guides said it was pretty simple, if they affirm the life, example, death, and resurrection of the Christ, then they probably could be trusted, if not they emphatically indicated do not listen to them for they will be of a misleading or more ignorant nature.  

 I can think of a couple well known channelers, mediums, etc, who have spoken against Christ in various manners, who have denied either his life, example, or (especially his) death and/or resurrection.  

 Interestingly enough, one of the main and quite popular ones out there, whose guide denies the above (and quite strongly and consistently it seems), after hearing people speak highly about this source (before knowing their guide denied the above truths of Christ), i decided to read some of their info.   Even before finding out this, while i found some of the info interesting, i just did not get a good or expansive feeling about the books i held in my hands, or the info i was reading.   In a sense, i felt somewhat repelled by this source of info, and so did not finish.

AhSo:

You started it, so I'll finish it. ;)

Jane Roberts/Seth deny Jesus' crucifixion in a ridiculous way. She/he claims that a mentally disturbed man was drugged and crucified in Jesus's place (Seth speaks). She/he claims that Jesus was a great psychic and had crucifixion wounds appear on his hands, so his followers would believe that it was him when he rejoined them physically.  Since this is National Enquirer magazine type nonsense, inquiring minds want to know why Jesus' disciples wouldn't recognize him regardless of whether or not he appeared with wounds on his body? Also, if he wasn't taken away so he could be crucified, why would he have to rejoin them? In an earlier book, the one with photos, Jane Roberts/Seth give a completely different story. They state that the crucifixion took place as a dream like event, not as a physical event.

On the hand Jane Robert/Seth speak as if Jesus was a Messiah and there will be a second coming, yet when she/he speak of things that pertain to Jesus they speak in a negative manner. As already pointed out they denied his crucifixion (just like the Matthew readings do, but in an entirely different way).  They claim that when Jesus said love your neighbor as yourself he was just telling a joke, because nobody in his time period loved their neighbor. If it isn't obvious that Jesus really did mean that one should love one's neighbor as one's self, all a person has to do is look at the verses that surround this statement and it is obvious that he meant love your neighbor as yourself.

Jane Roberts/Seth also mistranslated two of Jesus's other most popular statements. The meek shall inherit the earth, and if a person slaps your left cheek, show them your right cheek (sorry for not using the exact words). Again,  the verses that surround these sayings support how they are usually interpreted.

Some people might argue that the Gospels contain errors so you can't look at the surrounding verses to establish the meaning of the verses Jane Roberts/Seth twisted/contorted/misrepresented. Jane Roberts/Seth can't make this argument, because they use verses for the basis of their false arguments.

Some people might gloss over the part about the crucifixion, because Jane Roberts/Seth say so many interesting things. I don't see how such an important issue can be overlooked. If he was crucified, why lie about it with a ridiculous story that contradicts what you wrote in an earlier book?

 



wrote on Jan 30^th, 2007 at 2:31pm:

[quote author=recoverer link=1169936541/30#42 date=1170177864]  I can think of a couple well known channelers, mediums, etc, who have spoken against Christ in various manners, who have denied either his life, example, or (especially his) death and/or resurrection.    Interestingly enough, one of the main and quite popular ones out there, whose guide denies the above (and quite strongly and consistently it seems), after hearing people speak highly about this source (before knowing their guide denied the above truths of Christ), i decided to read some of their info.   Even before finding out this, while i found some of the info interesting, i just did not get a good or expansive feeling about the books i held in my hands, or the info i was reading.   In a sense, i felt somewhat repelled by this source of info, and so did not finish.

"Many a doctrine is like a window pane. We see truth through it but it divides us from truth."

Kahlil Gibran


Interesting comments, AhSo and Recoverer.

love, blink

Hi all

Oops AhSoLao - got your placing wrong then didn't I!  Sorry about that.

I can understand how people feel Christianity has been shoved down their throats.  I suppose I was fortunate in not having this in my growing up years and found Christ through myself.  So, it seems the law of 'reverse effect' has a big role to play in this.  However, I actually have a envy for people who did grow up going to church in their lives just for the close connection and the beautiful singing.

Interesting the debate; denying the life and crucifixion of Jesus is a sign of untruth.  I agree with this yardstick. The recognising of God's Spirit manifested into life and the life being taken out of the physical body is important and underlines the whole event of Christ on earth.

I like the saying Blink ... doctrine and possibly it is the doctrine and not the word which causes antagonism.

Da_Bears_1_fan wrote on Jan 29^th, 2007 at 3:20pm:

recoverer wrote on Jan 29th, 2007 at 12:45pm: Sure there are some negative things that have been done in the name of Christianity, but don't blame that on God, Jesus and all of the wonderful Christians that have lived.  The Christians I know are good people. Partly because of their faith they won't end up in a hell like realm when they die. If a person insists on focusing on the negativity that has occurred, how are they going to see the positive? I'm not blaming God! Or Jesus they are not the problem. The man has swayed people into lies about God and damnation! I know there are great Christians out there!! I just don't like what some of them got to say about God and hell... The only other Christian group I agree with is the Universalist! But they are considered heretics !! Which is laughable if you ask me.. Just because their doctrine of hell is only temporary!! I am a New age person and damn proud of it! But you don't see me go around and cram my beliefs down people's throats!

My philosophy is new age as well and i similarly have my biggest problem with the bible thumpers who spout the fearful and loveless teaching that is eternal damnation.
While I have more time for the Christians who acknowledge the fallacy of eternal damnation, and i say fallacy because i'm well read about the whole mistranslation in the bible from a word meaning 'eon' - a period of time to eternal. (haha even their own scriptures contradict certain beliefs) I still essentially avoid taking these universalists and other more liberal christians too seriously because they still impose biblical teachings on the world that are not valid for many of us.


I'm not going to say that christ really existed or he didn't, or incarnated into the physical or whatever and debate about that because i'm not all that well read on the subject and don't see it as vital as long as the principles of PUL are observed. PUL is not present and can never be in a religion that promotes the concept of eternal hellfire and judgement. 'Yeah god loves you but only under certain circumstances, what a load of crap!

I do like the idea that all of the religions maybe have some truth, like the figure heads of the religion are a kind of 'avatar' - a soul/soul essence that chose to come back to earth and re-incarnate even when they had reached their own high level of spiritual development and experience, but they choose to come back to play a key role in guiding the world to a greater spiritual understanding. I'm not necessarily saying i believe this to be true, but i have heard about it and entertain the thought. Along this train of thought, Christ, Bhudda etc were 'avatars'.

I'm not a christian bigot but I am anti christian as in the way it is generally preached and imposed in much of the world. My essential belief is that there is only really one or two universal truths and they are that souls have 'free choice and free will' and that everything in this universe functions as one, as a whole, as part of 'god' if you will. Everything affects everything else in the whole whether you can see the interconnectivity or not. You'd have to be in a god like state to see all this interconnectivity and its fascinating to read about the people through NDE's and shifts in consciousness who are reaching this higher state. I certainly aspire to sense it myself.
If Christianity helped some souls to this realisation which are the only truths I see as valid for all of us, then that's good. As for other truths, they are only partial truths or subjective truths in my opinion that cannot be imposed as absolute truths on others.

Right, what else shall we talk about .. the price of fish?

:D

Never Say Die Said:

"My essential belief is that there is only really one or two universal truths

..... and they are that souls have 'free choice and free will' and that everything in this universe functions as one, as a whole, as part of 'god' if you will. Everything affects everything else in the whole whether you can see the interconnectivity or not."


This is an interesting statement.  I agree completely with both of those "truths".....

But what does this "agreement" that I have mean and can I trust it?  

Are these the ONLY two universal truths?
Or....alternatively, are there ANY universal truths at all?  

Do universal truths exist?

Is a "universal truth" something I create myself, in my own mind, in my own heart, because I am human?

What is universal truth?  

What does it mean to be human?

What is the relationship that I have to "truth" as a human being, and how does existing here as a human being affect this relationship?

Do the questions lead to the answers....or do the answers lead to the questions?

It must be time to rest. Silence....silence....is golden.

love, blink

Here's something else about Rudolph Steiner's teachings that doesn't make sense just as the thousand pieces concept below doesn't make sense.

He claims that skin color has to do with ego size. It has nothing to do with the environment in which a race lives. The fact of how fair skinned people tend to come from cold climates like Finland, and dark skinned people tend to come from hot climates like Africa, is just a coincidence.

He claims there are differences in ego size, because some races of people are less evolved than other races. For example, the negro race is the least evolved (not my thought, his thought).

He also claims that for the sake of growth people reincarnate into different kinds of life situations and different races. Isn't this contradictory? How can you first make the preposterous claim that some races of people have a darker skin color because their ego size is the reflection of being a less evolved race, and also claim that souls incarnate into different races?

Regarding his theories of Lucifer and Ahriman, some say that he got the idea of such beings from Zoroastrianism.  The fact of the matter is that the founder of Zoroastrianism, Zoroaster, didn't speak of demonic beings.  He spoke of "asha" which means "anything" that violates "druj," Ahura Mazda's (God) divine plan.  The concept of demonic beings didn't become a part of Zorastrianism until later teachers "other" than Zoroaster added such concepts.

He also claims that a child reaches puberty at the age of 14, because that's when a child gets its astral body.

He also claims that when people die, Lucifer tries to lure them into his paradise realms so souls won't reincarnate on earth and help with its spiritual evolution. Wouldn't a paradise realm include love? Where would a critter like lucifer get love from? And wouldn't light beings try to interject on a spirit's behalf? 



augoeideian wrote on Jan 29^th, 2007 at 3:12am:

Yo - Seems like a few people are experiencing the 'dark night of the spirit' here with their judgment on Christianity ;) I think it is helpful to understand exactly what the Christ event did for humanity.  Before Christ died on the Cross and gave up His Holy Ghost into the spiritual world (the realm of our spiritual world that is); when people went to sleep or when they died their spirits were divided into a thousand pieces (literally) - for there was no guided path or midnight sun to light the way home.  At sleep people spent the entire time in the spirit world finding their fragments of spirit before they woke up, quite exhusting and terrifying I believe.  When they died - they spent eons trying to find the various fragments of themselves - possibly to no avail ending up as one who bows down to numerous false idols. Christ sacrificed His Etheric Body (for His is way more powerful then ours) so that when we today go to sleep or when we die and call upon His name we are at one within ourselves and this frees us to be whole in the spirit world. Today, people may take this for granted but our spirits before the Christ event were like dust in the wind blown any which way.  Christ offers His Light for anyone who asks for it in the Spirit world. And for this you hate him without a cause? Romans 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. Let us be a peace with each other and together with the Spirit of Christ bring peace to the world for bringing peace to our world is beyond us human who cannot even sit at a table in peace without vanity and puff up ness. :)

Nice post AhSoLao

I agree when you say we must look at our own experiences; we believe and trust we have come this far in Creation and it has been stepping stone upon stepping stone.  I think it is also important to be accountable and responsible for oneself in the bigger scheme of things - this saying I do think there is a frame work and guidelines - for our own good and safety and working within the universal framework and seeing the temple is within oneself and not without oneself - one does become in sync and stands in that mighty river, forever flowing, never the same but from one source.

Justin have you noticed it is not the Christians who accuse the (un)Christians?  The accusing comes from those who fear?
I think anyone's relationship with Christ is personal and for someone to attack this relationship is quite unmannered because having a personal relationship within is a sign of evolvement and development within the cosmos. To be frank.

I enjoyed your writings on Creation. The thousand pieces is quite dramatic but if we think of all our different thoughts during the day drifting out when we sleep in a random way without sequence it is is scenario.  Our thoughts still do this at sleep and indeed before Christ came our thoughts did this (btw. I do believe the Christ comes in every Zodiac age) however, now we have sequence and in the past the stage of evolution certain freedom of random growth was needed to become what we are today.

Yes, Edgar Cayce in his 'Life story of Jesus' did say Mary and Jesus are twin-souls, for this I can believe.  He does say They also are Adam and Eve.  The Atlantis book i have says Jesus Arbal and twin soul Arbel are brother and sister to Osiris and Isis and they are the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve.  Interesting.

I wouldn't mind reading R. McKnights book from what I have heard you say on her work it does sound 'connected'.

I like your tag!  This is just it our energy vibration pattern wrapped up in those numbers.  I see your Moon is in Aries - lol mine too.  My signature then would be: 01/28/66 harare zimbabwe no 6 life path.  lol.
Yo Aries what a sign! Sun Leo, Mercury Cancer retro, Venus Virgo, Mars Capricorn retro, Jupiter Pisces retro, Saturn Sag retro, Uranus Sat retro, Neptune Capricorn retro, Pluto Scorpio, North Node Aries retro.

Nice line up. Lots of retrogrades; meaning pause and reflect - very profound.  Scorpio in Pluto is intensively psychic.  Capricorn in Mars is a strong placement. Cancer in Mercury suggests a caring nature and also at home within oneself. Virgo in Venus is beautiful.  Pisces in Jupiter is profound.  Sag in Saturn is also strong showing the height. Sag in Uranus suggesting creativity.  Cap in Neptune shows discipline.   North node Aries - interesting, moving towards the start?

Well a general summary from my side!  Cos' have to look at the houses and aspects.

Cheers.

PS:  CHUMLEY come on give us your birthdate and we can interpretate you - come on I dare you!
******************
Naw. Even if I believed in it, why would I want to know my
future? Especially if I found out I was going to get cancer, or
go blind or something. What if there's stuff in my future, that
I can't do anything to stop, and is going to REALLY suck? What
if you told me I was going to be POOR forever, for example?
Some things, I DON'T want to know about. Thanks for the
offer though...

B-man

No, Chumley I would not like to take the responsibility and tell a person’s future.  There is a code of ethics in Astrology and I am sure AhSo will confirm this. I apologise for my fly away remark above – I was in a silly mood that day.

I do not venture down the path of future telling and besides that is not what Astrology is about.  Personal astrology is looking at character traits and working with these character traits, identifying the strong and weak traits, understanding personality and with this building upon the positive and watching out for the negative.

For example; my Moon is in Aries.

The Moon governs the personality – the persona or mask – as they are when they are with other people.  It needs to be understood that this mask is related to the sub-conscious mind.

Whereas the Sun shows the individuality, indicates the inner ideas, aspirations and reactions.  Some of which may be known to the native and need not necessarily be revealed to others.  The Sun is related to our conscious mind.

With my Moon in Aries; this indicates I am prone to impulsive behaviour (one of the Arian traits) and should think before I act.  The above fly away line is an example of this impulsive behaviour.  Knowing this character trait enables me to discipline my impulsive behaviour.

Further the placement of my Moon in Aries is in my second house.  The Circle is divided into twelve houses of 30 degrees each and these are sometimes known as mansions)  The second house represents personal money and uniqueness (two out of a few key words for the 2nd house).  

Each house has it’s Zodiac ruler and the ruler of the 2nd house is Taurus.  Now my Taurus is in my 3rd house and the 3rd house represents communication.

So here we can see my impulsive behaviour personality needs to be taken care in communication.  It also suggests, as well, my personal money will be made in communications and this may be confirmed.  Aries also represents a leader and a pioneer, my career is owning a audio sound recording studio (communication) and it was one of the first to be pioneered when TV was still in it’s infancy in SA. With this I’m cautioned not to be impulsive with my personal money.

I haven’t included the Aspects my Moon makes with the other Planets (the Aspects shows us how the Planets and Zodiac signs talk to one another) Also the elements Fire, Water, Air and Earth needs to be looked at how they blend with one another. But this is a general overview of how Astrology works in interpretating a birthchart.

I see AhSoLao has written further on Astrology under horoscopes and is very helpful information.  Normally, just understanding one’s Sun sign and Moon sign is useful.

:)

Ah sorry Recoverer i didn't see your post above - and here im rattling on about my chart when we have more important things to discuss.  Saying this I am going to have to read up again 'the evolution of the nations' so as to try put forward a clearer understanding on this than from my memory on that work.  I'm a bit Cayced out at the moment - but will reply as best as i can asap.

It is good to keep in mind all of Steiner's work is taken from a spiritual point of view - geography is also a spiritual condition.

Let me rather get the correct version of the work though.

Albert;  Rudolf Steiner taken out of context will be misunderstood and misinterpretated so I think it is best for me to post the links on those topics you have raised.

But I would like to say Steiner was NOT racist - he was a clairvoyant - how can a clairvoyant be racist!  You will find if you are interested in researching more into his work he says the darker coloured skin people were (for this whole racial slander against Steiner has been taken out of evolution context) more spiritual than lighter colour skin people for the lighter colour people were developing their intellect intelligence and the spiritual side had to take a back seat.

Today we will find the opposite is happening (again out of context) the primitive darker skinned people are developing more intellect and the lighter skins are developing more spiritual aspects - both will join.  Now, watch you going to say I am being racist saying that! - kidding Albert but rather you read it in it's full content.

Any queries into Steiner's work - the main archive to do a word search.
http://www.rsarchive.org/

Further pointers-

Evolution of Mankind
http://wn.rsarchive.org/Lectures/Places/Berlin/19090503p01.html

Zoroaster
http://www.google.com/custom?domains=rsarchive.org&q=zoroaster&sitesearch=rsarchive.org&client=pub-6820709641987870&forid=1&channel=7663793394&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&safe=active&cof=GALT%3A%23333333%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%2337352E%3BVLC%3A000000%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3AFFFFF8%3BLBGC%3ACCCCC0%3BALC%3A000000%3BLC%3A000000%3BT%3A44423A%3BGFNT%3A666660%3BGIMP%3A333330%3BLH%3A50%3BLW%3A360%3BL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwn.rsarchive.org%2Ficons%2FGoogle%2FRSArc_logoG.gif%3BS%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.rsarchive.org%2F%3BFORID%3A1%3B&hl=en

Puberty
http://www.google.com/custom?domains=rsarchive.org&q=puberty&sitesearch=rsarchive.org&client=pub-6820709641987870&forid=1&channel=7663793394&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&safe=active&cof=GALT%3A%23333333%3BGL%3A1%3BDIV%3A%2337352E%3BVLC%3A000000%3BAH%3Acenter%3BBGC%3AFFFFF8%3BLBGC%3ACCCCC0%3BALC%3A000000%3BLC%3A000000%3BT%3A44423A%3BGFNT%3A666660%3BGIMP%3A333330%3BLH%3A50%3BLW%3A360%3BL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwn.rsarchive.org%2Ficons%2FGoogle%2FRSArc_logoG.gif%3BS%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.rsarchive.org%2F%3BFORID%3A1%3B&hl=en

Lucifer
http://www.google.com/custom?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&safe=active&client=pub-6820709641987870&channel=7663793394&cof=FORID%3A1%3BGL%3A1%3BS%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.rsarchive.org%2F%3BL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwn.rsarchive.org%2Ficons%2FGoogle%2FRSArc_logoG.gif%3BLH%3A50%3BLW%3A360%3BLBGC%3ACCCCC0%3BBGC%3A%23fffff8%3BT%3A%2344423a%3BLC%3A%23000000%3BGALT%3A%23333333%3BGFNT%3A%23666660%3BGIMP%3A%23333330%3BDIV%3A%2337352E%3B&domains=rsarchive.org&q=lucifer+souls&sitesearch=rsarchive.org

Albert, please let me know what you think once you've had a chance to read.

Keep well
Caryn

I would like to add my plea to the others to Don to stay.
I desperately need your scholarly input, just so that I can know
what I am talking about when I write. I can't keep up, and am so
afraid that I am going to miss or lose some of your posts.
This has little to do with agreeing or not agreeing with some
particular religious belief. This is about knowing what is actually
there, to be looked at and talked about.

When I first came to this forum years ago, I was full of antagonism
about certain beliefs. But there is a maturing process by which I
eventually was able to ride above all this, and take these in
stride. Now I simply accept the huge range of sometimes angry noise
as part of the expectable overall scene, a scene that is there all
over the place everywhere you go. (I especially object to the
political nonsense from people who have forgotten 911, and not
absorbed it into their reality, and seem to blame Bush for the
existence of Al Quada.) I try to find my way through it all to the
scraps of knowledge or understanding that I need in order to put a
meaningful paradigm together.

It is part of this learning process to learn to mentally dismiss or
at least pass by some things that are obviously not enlightened,
because there is not time to deal with it all. I now understand
that this is just going to be there, and I try to select what I
will take the time to deal with. I have found it is sometimes not
necessary to defend every point of belief or to knock down
everything you disapprove of.

Caryn:

Thank you for your reply. I'm not ignoring you, I access the internet while at work, I'm really busy now, so it might take a few days before I can look at what you posted.

Thanks for the reply Albert, hope work's going well.

Don, I agree with Boris. I hope you find the time to write to us Don - we are very fortunate to have you here and sorely miss not seeing your name recently.

Caryn:

I looked searched around the links you provided, and I'm just not feeling it. That's okay. Eventually each of us will find out what is and what isn't true.  

Hi Albert

Sure, it is important for you resonant to what feels right for you.

Steiner's work needs to be taken right back to step one and that is the planet incarnations.  I think I am fortunate to have read his books rather than on-line reading. I find with any book the writing comes alive and is easier to read with feeling rather than analytic thinking.  I think reading on-line does interfere with our vibrationary waves, like watching TV does. His work is intense but people have acussed him of being flat and dry however, he did this for a reason.

Understanding his background; he and Helen Blavatsky were close connections.  Blavatsky was a extraordinary mystic, clairvoyant, psychic, esoteric astrologer, all of it - very deep in the Indian/Verdic soul movement at that time - the home of the soul in the East. Steiner was the same but had an extraordinary scientific mind as well.  

He did not want to be accused of being a mystic wrapped up in illusional dream world as Blavatsky was accused of mostly at that time and misunderstood. He wanted to put across the science of the spirit in a way that is not wrapped in mystical writings.  Hence his straight forward writings.  And although straight forward and seemingly bland - they cover the mystical world in it's entirety.

Also, both Blavatsky and Steiner lived the same time as Hitler.  For this reason we must think there was a need for Steiner's light to appear.  Hitler took Blavatsky's work totally to his head and thought he was the leader of the Ayran race (Blavatsky's fifth root race concept) Hitler also corrupted the symbol of the swatsika for his own glory.  On top of this Hitler tried to have Steiner asassinated.  Steiner had to leave Germany overnight and settled in Switzerland where he carried on his work.

It's my opinion the world has still to recognise the genius of Steiner work together with Blavastsky's work in it's entirety.

Anyway, just a bit of a background but again it's important to feel what's right for you. I do not mean to shove Steiner down your throats - from my side I trust his work without a doubt and I see how everything experienced, everything written, everything spoken about can be found in Steiner's work.

OK enough Steiner!

Keep well Albert.

:)

Ps:  One of the first books on Steiner to be produced was his 'Philosophy of Freedom' - good book!