It is a really GOOD question, come to think of it.
Now, "Heaven" and "Hell" can be described as collections
of like-minded people, right? Two examples...
#1. O.K. - one one hand, we have the guy who has a heart
attack while enjoying his porn, and they find his body
with his pants down, with his "so-and-so" still in his rigor-mortised
fist, and a teen scat website still up on his computer screen. (To give
the most sordid example I could come up with..!)
#2. A block away, a Salvation Army officer has died, whose entire
"raisson de etre" was working in grimy soup kitchens, ladling out stew to bums...
She never took a day off from work, was 30 pounds underweight due
to self-neglect (too busy thinking about OTHERS!) and died a virgin
to boot.
Now, I'm sure that case #1 HELLBOUND, right?
But wait a minute...
Why would he be denied his
kinky pleasures in the next world?
Why would he go to a place where he was DENIED his life's
passion...
While the Salvation Army officer would get to INDULGE hers?
To most people, the pervert liked NASTY things! His afterlife
destination (among other perverts!) would be HELL for most
folks... (unless you'd be happy in a world full of scat-fetish
pervs, that is.)
But would it be "Hell" for our hero?
Conversely, the Salvation Army officer represents what many
of us would want themselves to be. But would most of us REALLY
enjoy what she naturally enjoyed, when you think about it? Given
the choice of volunteering (without pay!) to break your back all day
ladling out soup to ornery, mentally-ill (and perhaps dangerous, or disease-carrying) derelicts, OR going to a football or baseball game with lots of hot dogs with mustard and ice-cold beer...
I'm guessing most of you would take the second option. (I know I would!)
Would "Heaven" then, be "Hell" to most normal humans? Quite
possibly..!

B-man

Brendan,

You are looking at things at the most superficial level.  A dead porn addict might not necessarily be a "bad" person, although he indulged in self destructive and negative impulses.  Perhaps he was good to his family, friends, strangers.  This inner person and true nature will guide his afterlife existence.  If perversion were his inner nature, then yes, he might find himself in a realm appropriate for his thoughts.

Addicts of all kinds will need to break the cycle of addiction, temporary self-gratification and obsession.  I venture to say, however that as more than 80% of adult males gratify themselves on a regular basis, that fantasy and sexuality are not all that the afterlife is about.  

You wish to maintain your pride and self worth, and are damning the heavens before you have crossed over.  You assume that a groveling existence with burnt sacrifices and serving others is what heaven is all about.  These are assumptions on your part not borne out by the experience of many mystics.


It is difficult to show you why love is the way, and why we should not be pure selfish materialists and thumb our noses at the divine.  It is something you must feel.  No amount of debate, even by one so skilled as Don will convince you that heaven is different than your simplistic representation.  You talk of destroying Yahweh with super technology.  This means you truly do not understand God's nature.  God is manifest in everything, Chum.  EVERYTHING.  He/she is the universe, and everything comes from him.  You rail against a being who you anthropomorphize into a wisened regal old man with a long flowing beard.  God's essence is much greater than that.  Once you "get" this concept, you can't be mad at God.  It would be laughable.

You were challenged by Don to read several books, and by another member of this forum to read the NDE of a suicide.  Did you read anything?  The suicide link was very interesting, and enlightening.  Because of the rapid transmission of thought, the woman who had the NDE understood the negative effect that her actions had, not just on her, but her family and friends.  It was all laid out for her.  Its true, in her interpretation she saw a figure whom she took to be JC and beings of light.  You may or may not agree with her interpretation.  But she understood what the "it" of the universe is all about.  

A porn addict will not be in a hell due to his one habit, but only if his inner self was completely selfish and devoid of love.  Likewise if one works with the impoverished, and does charitible works, one may not go to heaven if these works were for show only.  It is one's inner self, without the mask of civility that leads one in the afterlife.

M

Brendan,

You are looking at things at the most superficial level.  A dead porn addict might not necessarily be a "bad" person, although he indulged in self destructive and negative impulses.  Perhaps he was good to his family, friends, strangers.  This inner person and true nature will guide his afterlife existence.  If perversion were his inner nature, then yes, he might find himself in a realm appropriate for his thoughts.

Addicts of all kinds will need to break the cycle of addiction, temporary self-gratification and obsession.  I venture to say, however that as more than 80% of adult males gratify themselves on a regular basis, that fantasy and sexuality are not all that the afterlife is about.  

You wish to maintain your pride and self worth, and are damning the heavens before you have crossed over.  You assume that a groveling existence with burnt sacrifices and serving others is what heaven is all about.  These are assumptions on your part not borne out by the experience of many mystics.
*****************
Interesting what you've just said, Doc. You've hit a KEY nail right
on the head...
You see, in my life, I've dealt with many people who seemed hell
bent to "cut me down to size" or "knock me down." I realized over
time that my "pride and self worth", as you say, were my most
precious possessions. And long ago, I swore an oath to myself
that I would fight like a HELL-FIEND against even RATIONAL
attempts to further "put me in my place."
Unless there's an official governmental LAW saying so, I try to
avoid being willingly obedient to anyone/anything whenever I can.
Why? Because I don't want OBSEQUIOUSNESS (a trait I DESPISE) infecting my character any worse than it already has.
(This has cost me several jobs, BTW.) Is this perverse? Maybe so. But
it isn't being HUMBLE (ugh) at least...
If I only get ONE life, at least I WON'T be somebody's f---ing DOG.
Not even "God's"...
(Hell, I don't even like dogs anyway. I like cats better; maybe
I admire their independence..?)

B-man

Hi Chumley There is no sex in the spirit world as us being spirit have nothing physical to have sex with,there is what they call a union of two souls in the spirit world,not quite sure what the union is like but its two souls shareing love.

There is no hell in the spirit world,it is a manmade word,there is only a lowest plain,where murderers  and really evil people go and even then they can be saved if they want to be.


Love and God bless      Love Juditha

B-dawg wrote on Jan 27^th, 2007 at 7:23am:

It is a really GOOD question, come to think of it. Now, "Heaven" and "Hell" can be described as collections of like-minded people, right? Two examples... #1. O.K. - one one hand, we have the guy who has a heart attack while enjoying his porn, and they find his body with his pants down, with his "so-and-so" still in his rigor-mortised fist, and a teen scat website still up on his computer screen. (To give the most sordid example I could come up with..!) #2. A block away, a Salvation Army officer has died, whose entire "raisson de etre" was working in grimy soup kitchens, ladling out stew to bums... She never took a day off from work, was 30 pounds underweight due to self-neglect (too busy thinking about OTHERS!) and died a virgin to boot. Now, I'm sure that case #1 HELLBOUND, right? But wait a minute... Why would he be denied his kinky pleasures in the next world? Why would he go to a place where he was DENIED his life's passion... While the Salvation Army officer would get to INDULGE hers? To most people, the pervert liked NASTY things! His afterlife destination (among other perverts!) would be HELL for most folks... (unless you'd be happy in a world full of scat-fetish pervs, that is.) But would it be "Hell" for our hero? Conversely, the Salvation Army officer represents what many of us would want themselves to be. But would most of us REALLY enjoy what she naturally enjoyed, when you think about it? Given the choice of volunteering (without pay!) to break your back all day ladling out soup to ornery, mentally-ill (and perhaps dangerous, or disease-carrying) derelicts, OR going to a football or baseball game with lots of hot dogs with mustard and ice-cold beer... I'm guessing most of you would take the second option. (I know I would!) Would "Heaven" then, be "Hell" to most normal humans? Quite possibly..! B-man

LOL That is funny, I like how you improvised on my topic!! :) BTW I've read through most of this board's discussion from page 1 to 97!! I like your topics and your writtings!! Especially, the one about hell where you have a wild imagination, that would put shame to Clive Barker!! LOL I know what you mean though, when I was young like really young I'd watch so many horror movies!! Now, I just hope those monsters and demons aren't locked in my subconscious mind!! Because if, I die in fear of those things and hell I will be stuck in a sure hell hole!!!
Well, good thing we can change all of that by thinking good angelic thoughts and what not about our afterlife!!!

Also, I be the porn addicts hell to some would be a heaven to him for sure!! LOL

Ever heard of a porn addict who got himself (talking mainly about males I guess...) such an amount of porn, like an overdose, so that he's cured of that?

Spooky

Hi Chumley There is no sex in the spirit world as us being spirit have nothing physical to have sex with,there is what they call a union of two souls in the spirit world,not quite sure what the union is like but its two souls shareing love.
*****************
Love is fine and all that. But what about LUST, Juditha?
A "Heaven" with love, but no lust..?
"Hell" by any other name...

B-man

Hi Chumley I beleive lust started in the garden of eden,what i mean by this is that Eve defied God and ate from the tree of knowledge or life not to sure on that but before Eve did this ,there was only love between her and Adam,as she and Adam realised only then that they were naked and they covered up with fig leaves,i really think because of that, the lust then came into it.

But when we go to the spirit world we only feel love and we dont lust anymore because it dont exist there and we dont need it,so we dont miss it,thats why there is just the union of two souls.

This is my thoughts about lust,but i may be wrong.

Love and God bless                  love Juditha

Hi Chumley I beleive lust started in the garden of eden,what i mean by this is that Eve defied God and ate from the tree of knowledge or life not to sure on that but before Eve did this ,there was only love between her and Adam,as she and Adam realised only then that they were naked and they covered up with fig leaves,i really think because of that, the lust then came into it.

But when we go to the spirit world we only feel love and we dont lust anymore because it dont exist there and we dont need it,so we dont miss it,thats why there is just the union of two souls.

This is my thoughts about lust,but i may be wrong.

Love and God bless                  love Juditha
*****************
So the afterlife is sort of like Planet Vulcan, then..?
(The lack of lust, the "mind-melding", ect.)
And we are all like Mr. Spock??? Don't think I'd
care for that one. (I'm with Dr. McCoy on the details
of Vulcan emotional life, methinks...)

B-man

Hi Chumley i read somewhere that this soldier who had died on the battlefield,went to the spirit world and when he got there,there were other soldiers who had also died with him.He said through the medium that him and the others had to go to this centre there like soothing chambers because they had felt violence and had died through violence,which was very dramatic for them and when they were in these soothing chambers ,there families came to see them.

He said his grandmother had died at 70 yrs old but was now 21 yrs old in the spirit world because you can be the age there that you felt the happiest when on the earth plain.they drink there but its not like what we drink on earth its some kind of necter.

This soldier even though he was spirit still felt the needs of his physical body ,he even wanted to pass water and this guide told him he did not need to as he was not physical anymore and this guide also told him that in time he would forget his physical needs.

Then he was put with this chinese guide who took him to see the surroundngs he was now in and he showed him this pool of water and this chinese guide told him to bathe in it and as he bathed in this water ,he was completly cleansed of all thoughts of hatred but did not forget who he really was.

There are citys and shops and everythng is almost the same as the earth plain,but there is only pure unconditional love in the spirit world.

Love and God bless      Love Juditha