I notice some here don't have a belief in a God as a whole, at least not the same way others may.
Altough I've been trying to read out of body journeys, I haven't gotten to read some of this other material.
But I just wonder where anyone thinks that are seperate conciousness come from, or whom created this universe this planet that was readily made to sustain life the way that it was.
Who made the flowers smell and who gives spiritual gifts to some.
Where does light come from?
How do you travel out of the body? Did someone make it so?
Who puts you to sleep? Why do you sleep? Who created time? What does the concept of time mean to you?( LOL got that one from Pauls Rushes album)
Who speaks to me in such a deep spiritual way? How does he do that?
Who made fear, love, anger, hope, pain?
Why do the chakras spin in me? Who made that? Can you tell me that because thats not in the bible? Why do they spin? Why do we have auras?
Are we above creation or part of it?
Those are just a few questions I have.

I can just about answer all of those questions in a couple of sentences.  God is no more than the infinate consciousness that we all are a part of.  God created everything, and yet we are all god, every being of consciousness is god, so therefore we created everything.  We are all god, having experiences with a more narrow perception in order to learn, grow, fullfill curiosity.  We shape our world as we live in it.

Hi eggshellseas2,

Those are a lot of questions. But I do love them.

I think God is like an artist whose canvas is so broad and so deep that we cannot fathom it.

We are like fish in an ocean. We can swim and swim and never get to the end of it or the bottom of it. Sometimes we see the light, glimmering through the veil that separates us from the atmosphere, and occasionally we may leap into the sparkling rays.

However, what do we really know of the sun? We are but fish, and we must swim.

Who made the flowers smell and who gives spiritual gifts to some?
We are all flowers and we all have God-given gifts.

Where does the light come from?
The light comes from the sun, our source....and the radiant magnificence of being.

How do we travel out of body? Did someone make it so?
We travel out of body by going within. God is the Source, and the beginning of all things.

Who puts me to sleep? You and your weariness.
Why do I sleep? To learn to let go of illusion and how to rest in the spontaneous freedom of being.
Who created time? We did.
What does the concept of time mean? Nothing.

Who speaks to me in such a deep spiritual way? You do.
Why do I do that? Because you must.

Who made fear, love, anger, hope, pain? We did.

Why do the chakras spin in you? Explain them.
They are our colors, our passions. They express who we are and what we need.

Are we above creation or part of it?
We are creation and creators. It is all One.

love, blink

I agree with both users who responded.  The ultimate reality is being and the realization that you are not your thoughts; that your body is just a machine - a form, and thus an illusion.  We are indeed God: formless, vast, timeless and purely conscious.  God, simply put, is presence.

The reality is, "we", in actuality, likely created the illusion of self and separateness and quite simply forgot, relative to our present perspectives.  But why did "we" choose to fool ourselves in this manner?  I somewhat reject the notion that the purpose for this deception is for us to learn and grow.    Perhaps, "we" got bored and created this illusion - a game.  And the only purpose, if indeed one ultimately exists, is to simply realize our cosmic identity - which is in fact no identity at all but pure awareness.    

Those are very inlightening answers to me.
At the same time I cannot help but feel as thogh I am a created being.
Having met the one I percieved as my creator. I loved him.
I have no doubt that we are vessels which are used in the created process but even that didn't just happen without intention. Something gives you existance and life here or there. Or anywhere.

Hi Eggshell-
I've personally noticed that everything that might be explained by God is also explainable by some kind of natural phenomenon. The initial Beginning, whatever it was that generated our universe, can be explained as a dynamic uncertainty in the primitive cosmos. Therefor, it looks like the universe is a closed system of self-definitions.

AND, more to the point, as you meditate you 'll discover that you bypass these definitions and go to a place in which the universe falls away and you are part of the "Beingness" - lots of people call it the Cosmic Consciousness, but that's just a word. As your meditation caries you beyond the immediate world you'll merge into a more or less ultimate state of being One with everything, and being causally prior to it at the same time. You can read about this in the Upanishads if you're curious.

The question is not so much whether we can explain the world in everyday terms, but the essence from which came the logic that those terms present. That is accessible only in meditation, and then only imperfectly. However, it seems to be the essence through which our lifetimes revolve as we grow and learn. Edgar Cayce attempted to express this by saying tht as fully evolved beings, meaning truly mature adults in my estimation, we are to become co-creators with God. It seems that when we finally get to that level, everything is God, from God, of the nature of God, and made up of God. Aside from that, is nothing.

dave

Hi I was talking to a preist today about God and he said that a snowdrop in full bloom is the beauty of god and so many of us miss the moment.

I also beleive the planet started with the collision with another planet and then God took over and created the spirit in everything because the earth is solid mass and only God could have given the spirit in everything.

Love and God bless    Love Juditha

Their is definitley a god he does exist  ,god is all around us love deanna

The problem with that question is that, at least in my experience, the great majority of those who ask it really mean "Do you believe in the Christian God?" (though not as much on this board).  I emphatically do not.  I don't know that I believe unequivocally in any god...anything you could use as an example of "God" could apply to an extremely advanced alien race, multiple non-physical entities, luck, coincidence...this doesn't mean there isn't one, just no proof.

Then there's the fact that none of the assorted "proofs" are necessarily connected.  God could not exist.  God could exist, created us, then sat back to watch his experiment work, with or without intervention from other non-physical beings, aliens...etc....

I have a strong suspicion that there is more out there than meets the eye, but beyond that, I've never seen anything that even comes close to proof of a specific, describable God.

I believe that the term "God" is misleading and should be replaced with another word.  When people say god, they are most likely talking about a Zeus type character sitting up in heaven, creating us and creating things and watching over us with a judgemental eye and giving us hope in times of need and performing miracles on earth.  That is just not how things are, there is no mighty dude up there.  Perhaps we can replace the word God with.. AllYetOne.  

I Am Dude wrote on Jan 4^th, 2007 at 6:47pm:

I believe that the term "God" is misleading and should be replaced with another word.  When people say god, they are most likely talking about a Zeus type character sitting up in heaven, creating us and creating things and watching over us with a judgemental eye and giving us hope in times of need and performing miracles on earth.  That is just not how things are, there is no mighty dude up there.  Perhaps we can replace the word God with.. AllYetOne.

I'm thinking this mesage board may not be for me, because I have seen the wicked people in my life confounded by their own actions, and for me I hate evil , I do, and if there is no one to decide what is to become of the souls of those whom destroy what is good whether its in heaven or here. Then that really puts me in a shallow place. What ever name you want to give him. Or not give him, I have felt glory and have seen angels, so d0on't say I'm crazy for saying so escpecially if you believe in aliens. I have seen, and heard the glory of God. There are physical places which goodness reigns, I belive that. This is going to become such a place, in this realm. So if you think that you can leave your body and become whatever it is you think you want to be. Good luck doing it on your own. I am sorry for my sarcasm, if it seems that way, I don't mean to be that way. I will continue my own route, I for one have someone watching over me.
Here is one example:
A girl was planning to marry an ex boyfriend of mine, she is half sister to a politician that you all know of. She refered to him as uncle. She knew about my son, whom was her boyfriends natural son, and even though I never told the guy about my son, she sought vengance, she tried to kill my son a number of times, even tried to toss him off a roller coaster. She even poisend us at one point, you see my cousin was her second cousin, she confessed it all to me. We lived. Then the angel visited me. Then I told things to my former pastor via the phone which he recorded. She became silent friends with this pastors wife which gave her the tape, and world events I spoke about were on that tape! And personel events, and these things happened and continue to happen.
Eventuall the one that did this to me, she stopped talking and eating for a long period of time. I did nothing to cause that. Shes gotten better I suppose, I can't say for how long because she could be back for second row. And because I have faith, I can say bring it on! So who is there to help you?

OutOfBodyDude is right on in his assertion that the word "God" is misleading, as is the male gender type often associated with God, also misleading.  The most critical thing to realize is that the "you" and the "I" that people commonly associated themselves with and the emotions and the likes and the dislikes that comprise the so-called identity of people is essentially an illusion/delusion (in the kindest sense).  God is not watching over anyone and passing judgment on evil because God exists just as much on the inside of people as God exists outside - you are God.    If people ultimately choose to fulfill their sense of self by searching externally for purpose, they are missing the point.  Again, the thoughts that people associate their identity with is quite simply not their identity.  The true identity of people is beneath the thoughts, the pure awareness that observes the thoughts and that presence that does the observing (separate from the mind) IS reality, it IS God.  To reiterate, this reality cannot be labeled or intellectualized because it does not arise from the mind; it is being or presence without thought.   This is not just me babbling (or what I perceive as me me babbling  ;D ).  If you can fully embrace what I have said, and what thousands of spiritual masters before I have said, you will come to know God.  

Mattimo wrote on Jan 4^th, 2007 at 9:14pm:

OutOfBodyDude is right on in his assertion that the word "God" is misleading, as is the male gender type often associated with God, also misleading.  The most critical thing to realize is that the "you" and the "I" that people commonly associated themselves with and the emotions and the likes and the dislikes that comprise the so-called identity of people is essentially an illusion/delusion (in the kindest sense).  God is not watching over anyone and passing judgment on evil because God exists just as much on the inside of people as God exists outside - you are God.    If people ultimately choose to fulfill their sense of self by searching externally for purpose, they are missing the point.  Again, the thoughts that people associate their identity with is quite simply not their identity.  The true identity of people is beneath the thoughts, the pure awareness that observes the thoughts and that presence that does the observing (separate from the mind) IS reality, it IS God.  To reiterate, this reality cannot be labeled or intellectualized because it does not arise from the mind; it is being or presence without thought.   This is not just me babbling (or what I perceive as me me babbling  ;D ).  If you can fully embrace what I have said, and what thousands of spiritual masters before I have said, you will come to know God.

Michael is watching over someone and his name means "One who is like God"
Where ever you go when you pass this life, I don't think you'll enter inhis Kingdom unless you are his, I just don't think it. I believe the hearts of man can be read, I have seen what can happen if you mess around with one of His. And from what I remember he is male. Very male. So choose to do evil if you wish because you think there will be no accountability for it. And see if He will let you in. Oer you can just believe in aliens and see if they help out.

If Michael is a loved one whom has since died, it is indeed possible that his presence is "watching over you" so to speak.  I merely meant to not necessarily identify with the external concept of God and to instead, identify with God that is within you - that is you.  To realize what God is, to realize what your essence is, is to realize the such concepts of evil are in fact just that, concepts.  Evil seemingly does exist on the physical level because so many people choose to identify with that behavior, with those thoughts and it does cause pain and it does cause suffering.  And yet, on a deeper level, the level beyond the illusion of the physicality of our existence, there is no evil because there was and is only us - God - pure conscious awareness.  The only real accountability would be that of one's own because to commit acts of evil would be to disillusion oneself into thinking that he or she is something that they are not.  The notion of the God deity is a mere figment of the ego-mind.  God in actuality, would not pass judgment on something because God is beyond judgment.  Judgment is a concept of the mind and God is of no-mind.  The kingdom of God does not exist sometime in the future, the kingdom of God exists in the here, in the now and in the present...in being.  
 

Quote:

I'm thinking this mesage board may not be for me

Well if you are threatened by new concepts and different ideas than what you are used to, than this may be the best move, for this is something that constantly occurs here.  This is a place where everyone is constantly learning and growing, exploring all possibilities and searching for truth.  Instead of taking subtle shots at me, you could instead consider the possibility that the idea we are presenting you may have some truth to it.  I am sure many members on this board have much more expeirence and knowledge about this, and even if somthing presented is not in tune with what you feel is truth, the least you could do is accept it for what it is instead of making fun of someone for believing in aliens or leaving their body.  The concept of the god you are thinking of is strictly based upon religious standards, and I see it being proven over and over again that relgions are no more than well told fairytales.  I have seen the validity of religions cruble before my eyes.  I dont see what the big deal is anyway... I am very glad that there is no supreme ruler up in heaven sending lightning bolts down at sinners, just waiting for you to slip up so he can send you to a pool of fire and lava upon death.  Arent you happy you are so much in control of your destiny? Arent you glad That the evil in the world can change if it is so desired, instead of fearing that "gods" worst enemy "satan" is in control of all the bad things taking place?  Doesnt it make you feel good, and inspire you, to learn that you have so much power and are such a great being of consciousness, one that you have never even fathomed before?  It should..

I agree with outofbody regarding the word "GOD".

It is extremely misleading.

Hence eggshells.

Eggshells you just said yourself that believing that people who do horrible things have the same outcome as the rest of us puts you in a shallow place.

That sucks if it does but ignoring the facts and the truth is retarded.

Religion is a SHAM, Religion is the reason this world is so messed up.

I am losing more and more hope for humans the more I hear people talk and speak of religion .

those who believe in religion are lacking a good chunk of intelligence I am sorry but I have to say it. I am tired of sugar coating religion.

Eggshell you don't believe in aliens?

Are you an idiot???

Do you honestly think that in an infinite universe we are the only ANIMALS capable of complicated thought patterns.

Your views are ridiculous!
You are ridiculous!

I'm sorry but people like you are the reason (OUR WORLD) is so crappity smacked up.

get off your knees.

Please wake up.

Whether it be tomorrow or Eight years from now please wake up.

I don't see the threat from what OBE Dude and Mattimo are saying. Is it the notion that  Spirit exists inside you as well as outside that feels threatening?  I think it is absolutely fine to ask for and recieve help from subtle spiritual beings.  What Mattimo (and others) are saying doesn't invalidate doing so. Your relationship with your own Guide is not invalidated by these posts expressing the viewpoint of non-duality. It's probably better for that view to be demonstrated by example ( walking the walk ) than by words, but that's what this forum is.... words.

I think Mattimo's word for Spirit ... "Presence" is right on the mark. I have relationships with non-physical spiritual beings who I relate to as indivuals.  They also don't exist apart from my own presence. It's the reconciliation of what looks like in words to be two opposites that is the great mystery.  When you feel that those two things are opposite ends of the same stick, when you feel that sameness, all you can do is burst out laughing. They are not two. And yet... here is this wondrous indivual working with me. I'm here and they're 'there'. And.... they don't exist apart from my own presence. It's a mystery that makes me smile. It doesn't have to make sense.

Love, Tim

Ra!

Welcome back!

How's it hanging?

Put it there man!

Know what a joy buzzer is?

I got one in my hand.

Shake!

Shells..... your relationship with your Guide is your own. No one else's concept of what is right can take that away. I do believe that there is a lot of room  in the endless infinite eternal for lots of different pieces of real estate to exist. I also appreciate the energy of Ra, his raw passion has the taste of truth. There is a change coming.  Hierarchical spiritual structures are bound to pass and give way to a new modality, one that doesn't have a male figure at the top, something that might not even have a 'top'.

That doesn't invalidate your relationship with your Guide. Friends like your own are probably more apt to be walking side-by-side with you than being too far away, looking down at ya from a distant perch.

We've all got to make our own answers. I respect our unique journeys. Just to have had the experience of being human is enough. Like Mr. Monroe said, we're all way ahead of the game for having gained the human experience, nothing is lost.  

I am grateful that we can all be here in this place and share a little of it, passions and all.

Best to y'all.

Tim

Ra. wrote on Jan 4^th, 2007 at 10:36pm:

I agree with outofbody regarding the word "GOD". It is extremely misleading. Hence eggshells. Eggshells you just said yourself that believing that people who do horrible things have the same outcome as the rest of us puts you in a shallow place. That sucks if it does but ignoring the facts and the truth is retarded. Religion is a SHAM, Religion is the reason this world is so messed up. I am losing more and more hope for humans the more I hear people talk and speak of religion . those who believe in religion are lacking a good chunk of intelligence I am sorry but I have to say it. I am tired of sugar coating religion. Eggshell you don't believe in aliens? Are you an idiot??? Do you honestly think that in an infinite universe we are the only ANIMALS capable of complicated thought patterns. Your views are ridiculous! You are ridiculous! I'm sorry but people like you are the reason (OUR WORLD) is so crappity smacked up. get off your knees. Please wake up. Whether it be tomorrow or Eight years from now please wake up.

I didn't say that there couldn't be aliens, I've said I've never seen an alien but I have seen and angel.
You think I'm ridiculous? Have you ever been saved from death? Who is watching over you.? Who will keep you and yours safe? I'm safe :D I've seen those who hurt us fall a great way too.

Besides theses so called aliens stole from angelic beings genetics.

Quote:

Besides theses so called aliens stole from angelic beings genetics.

Besides from possibly having some type of unconscious interaction with ETs, I have read more books about them than I can count, and have accumulated much knowledge about most aspects of interest involving aliens.  I did not quite understand this comment?  However from what i made out from it, I can not agree and see little sense in this statement.  An "angel" is a being from the afterlife... genetics involves genes from DNA... DNA is Strictly of the physical plane, our souls do not have DNA... consciousness does not have DNA.  Angels are not physical beings, and neither are we... we are consciousness, in a physical vessel.  The physical vessels we occupy are of DNA... the consciousness which resides in them do not.  This goes for aliens just as much as it does with humans.

I Am Dude wrote on Jan 5^th, 2007 at 12:30am:

Quote: Besides theses so called aliens stole from angelic beings genetics. Besides from possibly having some type of unconscious interaction with ETs, I have read more books about them than I can count, and have accumulated much knowledge about most aspects of interest involving aliens.  I did not quite understand this comment?  However from what i made out from it, I can not agree and see little sense in this statement.  An "angel" is a being from the afterlife... genetics involves genes from DNA... DNA is Strictly of the physical plane, our souls do not have DNA... consciousness does not have DNA.  Angels are not physical beings, and neither are we... we are consciousness, in a physical vessel.  The physical vessels we occupy are of DNA... the consciousness which resides in them do not.  This goes for aliens just as much as it does with humans.

Angels were once as physical as you and I are right now and could be still in another place. I would go into some of my knowledge religiously but you don't believe any of thats possible so I wont.
As someone mentioned before, they think that we are animals, but I don't see it that way either. Some did some messing around with genetics many thousands of years
ago. I have learned that on my own, you don't have to believe it, but too me its so. It is not the fault of one human baby born in this world that they are born into it, to say that they are animals is simply unrighteous.
I tell you what I understand to be true. Don't ask why ok. Its going to switch, this realm is where the new heaven will be built. And there will be technology beyond anyones understanding at this time,space travel perhaps even in and out of the different realms, there will be rules to abide by also. There will be again a physical heaven with all of its spiritual glory. I think it will be a long and slow process but its coming.
Those that have a higher part of themselves somewhere else will merge with that higher part.
Reincarnation will end hopefully. We will live hopefully eternally. There you have it. My prophecy.
You can call me crazy if you want, I really don't care. What I really care about is my angel that came to visit and my three boys that had to go through so much in their lives already. And I hope that people in the world can learn to love again.

Angels are strictly nonphysical beings.  I am assuming that mostly all "angles", I prefer to call them helpers or guides, but mostly all "angels", were once human.  Once having passed into the nonphysical, they chose to help others.  However, they left their human DNA behind with their rotting human body.  Aliens are conducting a genetics program in order to advance their race's evolution.  These things I am stating come from both abductees and advanced Remote Viewers.  The aliens live in a collective conscious state, meaning they opperate collectively with collective thoughts and spiritual growth.  However, they know that to really advance spiritually, you must evolve on an individual level, so they are in the process of creating a being of both alien and human genes, one that would allow for individuality rather than collective consciousness.  They know more about us than we know about us, and that is the sad thing.  This is apparent, for the way they ever so easily take us, experiment on us, and alter our minds so we do not even remember contact.  However, these beings do not have bad intentions, they only seek to evolve spiritually and assist us in our evolution as well.  They seek give us the tools to awaken so we will hopefully save our planet from its immenent distruction.  I agree that there will be a physical heaven.  By heaven I mean a place of peace, love, and growth.  This will come as a result of the shift of consciousness which is currently sweeping the planet.  Reincarnation is not neccessarily a bad thing if it is neccessary for an individuals growth and evolution.  And you dont have to hope that we will live eternally... we already do!!!! Our bodies may die, but our consciousness is infinite and eternal.

*****************
Michael is watching over someone and his name means "One who is like God"
Where ever you go when you pass this life, I don't think you'll enter inhis Kingdom unless you are his, I just don't think it. I believe the hearts of man can be read, I have seen what can happen if you mess around with one of His. And from what I remember he is male. Very male. So choose to do evil if you wish because you think there will be no accountability for it. And see if He will let you in. Oer you can just believe in aliens and see if they help out.
*****************
If you are right, eggshellseas...
I DON'T WANT to enter "His" kingdom!!! I flat-out
refuse to "give my life to Him" (or anyone else for that
matter. I'm a free man NOT a slave!!!)
And unless your god is an INSANE MONSTER, he will
grant me annihilation, NOT get "His" rocks off by torturing
me forever..!
You say "God" is "male, very male." (Does "He" have a pecker
then..? And if so, what does "He" do with it?) :-?
Christian "Heaven." Who needs a "Hell" when you have that
big a s--thole to "look forward to?" Shee-eesh...
BTW... you're not one of those "Rapture" fruitcakes, are
you? (Otherwise, I'll assume you're basically O.K.!)

B-man

P.S. Aliens/UFOs (I am a skeptic about them, BTW) are at least
POSSIBLE, scientifically speaking.
The Christian god/angels? SUPERSTITION dreamed up by IGNORANT GOAT-HERDERS, my friend. Nothing more, and nothing else.
*Get the difference here???*

B-dawg wrote on Jan 5^th, 2007 at 5:01am:

***************** Michael is watching over someone and his name means "One who is like God" Where ever you go when you pass this life, I don't think you'll enter inhis Kingdom unless you are his, I just don't think it. I believe the hearts of man can be read, I have seen what can happen if you mess around with one of His. And from what I remember he is male. Very male. So choose to do evil if you wish because you think there will be no accountability for it. And see if He will let you in. Oer you can just believe in aliens and see if they help out. ***************** If you are right, eggshellseas... I DON'T WANT to enter "His" kingdom!!! I flat-out refuse to "give my life to Him" (or anyone else for that matter. I'm a free man NOT a slave!!!) And unless your god is an INSANE MONSTER, he will grant me annihilation, NOT get "His" rocks off by torturing me forever..! You say "God" is "male, very male." (Does "He" have a pecker then..? And if so, what does "He" do with it?) :-? Christian "Heaven." Who needs a "Hell" when you have that big a s--thole to "look forward to?" Shee-eesh... BTW... you're not one of those "Rapture" fruitcakes, are you? (Otherwise, I'll assume you're basically O.K.!) B-man P.S. Aliens/UFOs (I am a skeptic about them, BTW) are at least POSSIBLE, scientifically speaking. The Christian god/angels? SUPERSTITION dreamed up by IGNORANT GOAT-HERDERS, my friend. Nothing more, and nothing else. *Get the difference here???*

Later! Have a good flight to hale-bop.

eggshellseas2 wrote on Jan 5^th, 2007 at 12:14pm:

[quote author=Chumley link=1167887666/15#24 date=1167987685]***************** Michael is watching over someone and his name means "One who is like God" Where ever you go when you pass this life, I don't think you'll enter inhis Kingdom unless you are his, I just don't think it. I believe the hearts of man can be read, I have seen what can happen if you mess around with one of His. And from what I remember he is male. Very male. So choose to do evil if you wish because you think there will be no accountability for it. And see if He will let you in. Oer you can just believe in aliens and see if they help out. ***************** If you are right, eggshellseas... I DON'T WANT to enter "His" kingdom!!! I flat-out refuse to "give my life to Him" (or anyone else for that matter. I'm a free man NOT a slave!!!) And unless your god is an INSANE MONSTER, he will grant me annihilation, NOT get "His" rocks off by torturing me forever..! You say "God" is "male, very male." (Does "He" have a pecker then..? And if so, what does "He" do with it?) :-? Christian "Heaven." Who needs a "Hell" when you have that big a s--thole to "look forward to?" Shee-eesh... BTW... you're not one of those "Rapture" fruitcakes, are you? (Otherwise, I'll assume you're basically O.K.!) B-man P.S. Aliens/UFOs (I am a skeptic about them, BTW) are at least POSSIBLE, scientifically speaking. The Christian god/angels? SUPERSTITION dreamed up by IGNORANT GOAT-HERDERS, my friend. Nothing more, and nothing else. *Get the difference here???*

Some have seen angels for many thousands of years, they've done art on them
http://www.lilitu.com/lilith/lilithframe4.JPG

Actually its huge and its flat on the top. Not like the men in this world.
Later! Have a good flight to hale-bop.

Hi eggshell,

I just wanted to mention here that when you would like to change, delete or add more comments to a post there is a button on your original post when you are logged on which you can click to do it.  It would save people some time, rather than rereading the old posts.

I hope that is helpful to you.

love, blink

wrote on Jan 5^th, 2007 at 3:23pm:

Hi eggshell, I just wanted to mention here that when you would like to change, delete or add more comments to a post there is a button on your original post when you are logged on which you can click to do it.  It would save people some time, rather than rereading the old posts. I hope that is helpful to you. love, blink

Sorry thats what I meant to do.  :)

Most of the posts on God are not "right."  They are not even "wrong."  They are instead "meaningless" since they draw no distinctions that might help assess their merits.  To insist that we are all a part of God sounds good unless you inquire ioto the opposing view of God.   People who would insist that we are distinct from God simply mean that we are not divine puppets; we have free will.  Even on that view, we are all a part of God (including Satan) in the sense that we all ultimately derive from our Creator.  

Consider the claim that evil is an illusion and that there is no postmortem accountability for earthly atrocities, since the God of which we are a part is as responsible for these atrocities as we are.  That claim would be consistent with Monroe's appalling maxim: "There is no good, there is no evil, there is only experience."  It would be wrong, but still meaningful.  Or consider the claim that God does not desire our love or adoration (worship) because we are all a part of "Him" and such worship would amount to self-worship.  That view would implicitly deny free will, but it would at least be meaningful in the sense that it draws a distinction.  Of course, one might ask PUL advocates why the creator of PUL would not want us to refuel on PUL through mystical contact with "Him"--another way of saying that God values our love, worship, and intimate communion with "Him."  Why would God supremely value PUL, and yet, be totally indifferent to the question of whether we also focus that PUL on "Him?" There is no obvious answer to this question.  So open your minds!

Awe, how sweet to see the Buddhist's [Tim F's] celebration of a returning Ra's profane insults.  I've known a teacher of a course on Buddhism like Tim and I think less of that religion through such aquaintances.  Let's survey some of the polite termiinology that Tim is tacitly celebrating:
"sucks," "retarded," "Religion is a sham,"  "Those who believe in religion are lacking a good chunk of intelligence,"  "Are you an idiot" (direted at eggshell's skepticsm about aliens). "You are ridiculous."  

Such verbal sewage makes Ra a soulmate of Dude's and gives new eloquence to the principle, "Empty drums make the most noise."  Well, Ra, I'm going to enjoy making constructive use of an illiterate like you as my whipping boy.  

Ra, let's begin our dialogue this way.  You vulgarly dismiss religion as a sham.  That of course implies that you have thoroughly examined religions and found thiem a sham.  For starters, what are the arguments in favor of linking Jesus' miracles with eyewitness testimony?  Ha!  You don't have a clue.  You dismiss  what you don't understand.  You are the true IDIOT!

Don

Have none of us learned anything about Love?  This kind of escalation of verbal abuse with each other is unspeakably painful for me to witness.  I understand why we do it to each other, but it does not make it any easier to witness.  

My heart is with you all.

love, blink

I thought it part of your beliefs that a being strong enough could think another being into existance. So isn't it possible that a being possibly thought this place into existance? Maybe I was something that he made. Maybe he wants to keep what he made safe. Maybe he gives self will to what he creates, maybe he makes it possible that others can create.
Because I met someone he showed me things and he poured so much love on me its unimaginable. He speaks with me. And he convicts me of some things. Like, he hates it when I gamble and warns me not to, I know that it is not me that speaks because I want and love to gamble.
When my son was in the hospital there was so much love pouring on me and I was assured that he would be ok. I wasn't doing that.
Haven't you ever had your eyes enlightened? Haven't you ever been so filled with overwhelming joy? I tell you whom ever he is to me, I want to keep him around. I find that I love him. So maybe he is my creater. Maybe he is of others also.

Blink, as long as these sewer mouths spout the New Age party line, you and your ilk remain deafenly silent.  But when, after a long delay, a Christian confronts your New Age chronies with the blunt challenges that they derseve, then and only then you protest.  I would not reply in this way at all, if you New Agers would occasionally insist that the board's guidelines be observed.    Such protests are virtually absent from this board, with thankfully the odd exception.

Don

*****************
Michael is watching over someone and his name means "One who is like God"
Where ever you go when you pass this life, I don't think you'll enter inhis Kingdom unless you are his, I just don't think it. I believe the hearts of man can be read, I have seen what can happen if you mess around with one of His. And from what I remember he is male. Very male. So choose to do evil if you wish because you think there will be no accountability for it. And see if He will let you in. Oer you can just believe in aliens and see if they help out.
*****************
If you are right, eggshellseas...
I DON'T WANT to enter "His" kingdom!!! I flat-out
refuse to "give my life to Him" (or anyone else for that
matter. I'm a free man NOT a slave!!!)
And unless your god is an INSANE MONSTER, he will
grant me annihilation, NOT get "His" rocks off by torturing
me forever..!
You say "God" is "male, very male." (Does "He" have a pecker
then..? And if so, what does "He" do with it?) :-?
Christian "Heaven." Who needs a "Hell" when you have that
big a s--thole to "look forward to?" Shee-eesh...
BTW... you're not one of those "Rapture" fruitcakes, are
you? (Otherwise, I'll assume you're basically O.K.!)

B-man

P.S. Aliens/UFOs (I am a skeptic about them, BTW) are at least
POSSIBLE, scientifically speaking.
The Christian god/angels? SUPERSTITION dreamed up by IGNORANT GOAT-HERDERS, my friend. Nothing more, and nothing else.
*Get the difference here???*
[/quote]
Some have seen angels for many thousands of years, they've done art on them


Actually its huge and its flat on the top. Not like the men in this world.
Later! Have a good flight to hale-bop.
******************
Looks like a kinky piece of pre-historical porn to me.
(Like the "Venus of Willendorf" from 20,000 years ago
in Europe, or any number of voluptuous Hindu goddesses
seen carved on hundreds of temples throughout India...)
I'm a SKEPTIC about aliens, Eggy. I don't believe we have
been, or are being visited by them (interstellar space travel
being likely impossible... speed of light limit and all.)
But I DO believe that aliens are out there, somewhere. It
is a big universe. A SCIENTIFIC universe mind you... NOT A
MAGICAL ONE!!!
There is NO such thing as "magic" (except the on-stage, pull-
a-rabbit-out-of-a-hat kind.) Hence I can believe in aliens (as
Carl Sagan did... aliens being scientifically possible!) but NOT
"angels" or a "Zeus"-type, humanoid "God", which are MAGICAL
concepts...
Did I make myself clear now..?

B-man

B-dawg wrote on Jan 5^th, 2007 at 7:26pm:

***************** Michael is watching over someone and his name means "One who is like God" Where ever you go when you pass this life, I don't think you'll enter inhis Kingdom unless you are his, I just don't think it. I believe the hearts of man can be read, I have seen what can happen if you mess around with one of His. And from what I remember he is male. Very male. So choose to do evil if you wish because you think there will be no accountability for it. And see if He will let you in. Oer you can just believe in aliens and see if they help out. ***************** If you are right, eggshellseas... I DON'T WANT to enter "His" kingdom!!! I flat-out refuse to "give my life to Him" (or anyone else for that matter. I'm a free man NOT a slave!!!) And unless your god is an INSANE MONSTER, he will grant me annihilation, NOT get "His" rocks off by torturing me forever..! You say "God" is "male, very male." (Does "He" have a pecker then..? And if so, what does "He" do with it?) :-? Christian "Heaven." Who needs a "Hell" when you have that big a s--thole to "look forward to?" Shee-eesh... BTW... you're not one of those "Rapture" fruitcakes, are you? (Otherwise, I'll assume you're basically O.K.!) B-man P.S. Aliens/UFOs (I am a skeptic about them, BTW) are at least POSSIBLE, scientifically speaking. The Christian god/angels? SUPERSTITION dreamed up by IGNORANT GOAT-HERDERS, my friend. Nothing more, and nothing else. *Get the difference here???*

Some have seen angels for many thousands of years, they've done art on them


Actually its huge and its flat on the top. Not like the men in this world.
Later! Have a good flight to hale-bop.
******************
Looks like a kinky piece of pre-historical porn to me.
(Like the "Venus of Willendorf" from 20,000 years ago
in Europe, or any number of voluptuous Hindu goddesses
seen carved on hundreds of temples throughout India...)
I'm a SKEPTIC about aliens, Eggy. I don't believe we have
been, or are being visited by them (interstellar space travel
being likely impossible... speed of light limit and all.)
But I DO believe that aliens are out there, somewhere. It
is a big universe. A SCIENTIFIC universe mind you... NOT A
MAGICAL ONE!!!
There is NO such thing as "magic" (except the on-stage, pull-
a-rabbit-out-of-a-hat kind.) Hence I can believe in aliens (as
Carl Sagan did... aliens being scientifically possible!) but NOT
"angels" or a "Zeus"-type, humanoid "God", which are MAGICAL
concepts...
Did I make myself clear now..?

B-man[/quote]
I never said you had to believe anything, I never said I was Christian as the same way others are christians. I never said that there will be a "hell" as you think hell. I think that he won't let those into his kingdom if they are that evil. Evil destroys. He destroys evil. I believe in him 'cause I know him Micheal, Shiva..whater name they've givin him.
I believe the pic I got up there was fro Mesopatamia or someplace like that.
I will hold firm to my beliefs because hes taken care of me. And givin me love.
So for me. I believe in God a creator.

Berserk wrote on Jan 5^th, 2007 at 7:17pm:

Blink, as long as these sewer mouths spout the New Age party line, you and your ilk remain deafenly silent.  But when, after a long delay, a Christian confronts your New Age chronies with the blunt challenges that they derseve, then and only then you protest.  I would not reply in this way at all, if you New Agers would occasionally insist that the board's guidelines be observed.    Such protests are virtually absent from this board, with thankfully the odd exception. Don

Don,

I respect you, and all the others here on this thread. And I understand perfectly why you are here.

I will quote John 4 verse 16;
"God is love. If we keep on loving others, we will stay one in our hearts with God, and he will stay one with us."

Here is John 4 verse 20;
"But if we say we love God and don't love each other, we are liars."

I don't expect from you or any others here anything more than I expect from myself. Therefore, I don't judge you or any others here.  I simply repeat, it is painful for me, and most assuredly painful for many many others who visit this board to see these kinds of outbursts.

We must ALL make a much stronger effort here to bring true wisdom and healing to this board. If not, we are responsible for the deaths of those who have been misled by all of our lies.

love, blink

Berserk:
I do not feel it is accurate in reality to claim that Ra is my soulmate.  Not once have I ever name-called, flipped out, or put anyone down in any way.  Do not confuse my views on the subjects disscussed with my sensitivity towards the members of this board.  If you were the mature and all knowing being that you claim to be, you would simply ignore the remarks of Ra and even the ones I make that you feel are so innapropriate, but instead you sling insults and putdowns right back.  This brings you down on the same level as Ra(no offense Ra), and essentially makes you a hippocrit.  Good Day!

I Am Dude wrote on Jan 5^th, 2007 at 8:35pm:

Berserk: I do not feel it is accurate in reality to claim that Ra is my soulmate.  Not once have I ever name-called, flipped out, or put anyone down in any way.  Do not confuse my views on the subjects disscussed with my sensitivity towards the members of this board.  If you were the mature and all knowing being that you claim to be, you would simply ignore the remarks of Ra and even the ones I make that you feel are so innapropriate, but instead you sling insults and putdowns right back.  This brings you down on the same level as Ra(no offense Ra), and essentially makes you a hippocrit.  Good Day!

You do alright dude. :)

Dude,no, you and Ra are the bobsy twins!  I'd say your use of "barf," "retard," and "bull" is a pretty crude way of compensating for your disortions of Swedenborg and your unwillingness to actually read him.  As you've no doubt noticed, the twins have thanked me for confronting your ridicule of them.  So I'm calling you out!   You pontificate about Satan and demons.  So actually read a book that makes you somewhat qualified to be address a subject about which you are virtually illiterate.  

By the way, your use of the Gateway tapes seems promsing, though I doubt you've actually had a genuine OBE yet (not even your forced K-Mart interpretation).  I agree with Boris's critique.  I've floated up near the ceiling, bounced off it, looked down on my sleeping body, tried to reconnect iwth it, expierienced my dream fingers being unable to attach to my physical fingers, peformed highly emotional retrievals, argued with spirit biengs that they are mere figments of my imagination, even poked them in the chest to get the feel of dream people.  But none of these experiences were accompanied by the requisite verifications to be deemed more than lucid dreams.   In such matters, we need the gift of discernment honed by an enhanced capacity for critical thinking.   That discernment can only be achieved by a willingness to be fair to both sides of controversial questions.  Read Martin as a first step towards that objective.

Don  

To be honest, I'm just glad to see Don posting again.... I have grown fond of you Don.  I don't know why, but I have.  I think the rant on this thread from Ra is raw and rude in choice of words and the spirit behind those words feels true... it just feels good to me. Somehow appropriate for this time-frame, in this culture. That's how it feels... to me.

I'm glad you're here Don. I've been waiting for your voice to show up here again.

You too Ra... I was waiting for your voice to come back here. I'm real glad you're back.

Fellow human beings that we are..... I consider it a gift to get to know you both a little through this medium of Bruce's forum. I'm glad you participate.

Love, Tim

Rideculing satan, which I admit doing, is a totally different thing than rideculing a member of the board. This I have never done, and your reasons for calling me out are unreasonable, unless you are the spawn of satan and find my feelings towards him offensive.  And don't say I have never read Swedenbutch, because I read that entire ten page post on him, which I assume is all of his most important findings, being as you created it.  I have also read about him from other sources as well.  The twins thanked you, and yet I did not ridicule them, i only explained to them why satan is hogwash.  I have had quite a few genuine OBEs using the gateway experience, although 95% of the time I have OBEs not using gateway, in fact 95% of my obes occured before I even began using gateway.  I am not using gateway to have OBEs, for the gateway experience has much farther reaching benefits than causing you to leave your body.  You seem to think that just because there is no verification for the experience, that it is not genuine.  Just because you can not come to terms with the fact that at least some of your experiences are not genuine does not give you the right to call other peoples experiences phoney.  I am actually a bit baffelled by you saying that I have not had an OBE using gateway, when you can clearly see that I have by reading my experiences.  And when you say i havent had one YET.. im assuming you mean during my time using the gateway experience, and you did not mean I have not ever had one, in my life.  I have had so many OBEs that I cannot even begin to count them.  I realise that you are still stuck in the world of religion, and Christianity is against Astral Projection and the Occult in general.  But your beliefs in no way demise my experiences as real.  I have had enough genuine OBEs and enough lucid dreams to realise the difference between the two.  So please, I do not need you to question my experiences, I am well aware of what I am doing.

eggshellseas2 wrote on Jan 5^th, 2007 at 8:08pm:

B-dawg wrote on Jan 5th, 2007 at 7:26pm: ***************** Michael is watching over someone and his name means "One who is like God" Where ever you go when you pass this life, I don't think you'll enter inhis Kingdom unless you are his, I just don't think it. I believe the hearts of man can be read, I have seen what can happen if you mess around with one of His. And from what I remember he is male. Very male. So choose to do evil if you wish because you think there will be no accountability for it. And see if He will let you in. Oer you can just believe in aliens and see if they help out. ***************** If you are right, eggshellseas... I DON'T WANT to enter "His" kingdom!!! I flat-out refuse to "give my life to Him" (or anyone else for that matter. I'm a free man NOT a slave!!!) And unless your god is an INSANE MONSTER, he will grant me annihilation, NOT get "His" rocks off by torturing me forever..! You say "God" is "male, very male." (Does "He" have a pecker then..? And if so, what does "He" do with it?) :-? Christian "Heaven." Who needs a "Hell" when you have that big a s--thole to "look forward to?" Shee-eesh... BTW... you're not one of those "Rapture" fruitcakes, are you? (Otherwise, I'll assume you're basically O.K.!) B-man P.S. Aliens/UFOs (I am a skeptic about them, BTW) are at least POSSIBLE, scientifically speaking. The Christian god/angels? SUPERSTITION dreamed up by IGNORANT GOAT-HERDERS, my friend. Nothing more, and nothing else. *Get the difference here???* Some have seen angels for many thousands of years, they've done art on them Actually its huge and its flat on the top. Not like the men in this world. Later! Have a good flight to hale-bop. ****************** Looks like a kinky piece of pre-historical porn to me. (Like the "Venus of Willendorf" from 20,000 years ago in Europe, or any number of voluptuous Hindu goddesses seen carved on hundreds of temples throughout India...) I'm a SKEPTIC about aliens, Eggy. I don't believe we have been, or are being visited by them (interstellar space travel being likely impossible... speed of light limit and all.) But I DO believe that aliens are out there, somewhere. It is a big universe. A SCIENTIFIC universe mind you... NOT A MAGICAL ONE!!! There is NO such thing as "magic" (except the on-stage, pull- a-rabbit-out-of-a-hat kind.) Hence I can believe in aliens (as Carl Sagan did... aliens being scientifically possible!) but NOT "angels" or a "Zeus"-type, humanoid "God", which are MAGICAL concepts... Did I make myself clear now..? B-man

I never said you had to believe anything, I never said I was Christian as the same way others are christians. I never said that there will be a "hell" as you think hell. I think that he won't let those into his kingdom if they are that evil. Evil destroys. He destroys evil. I believe in him 'cause I know him Micheal, Shiva..whater name they've givin him.
I believe the pic I got up there was fro Mesopatamia or someplace like that.
I will hold firm to my beliefs because hes taken care of me. And givin me love.
So for me. I believe in God a creator.
*****************
Although you "beat around the bush" a bit here, I deduce
that you're NOT here to preach the "Rapture", or other such
idiocy. GOOD for you, then! (For what it's worth...) -

B-man

Dude, though I consider your tone in the posts in question to be vulgar personal attacks, I apprediciate your expressed abhorrence of demeaning insults.  I am prepared to take new pictures.  Demonstrate that you are morally house-broiken in future posts to me  and you'll find me a polite debating parmer.   But dammit, read Malachi Martin to demonstrate your willingness to consider both sides of the relevant  questions!

I have experienced all the classical symptoms of OBEs, and yet, I know none of mine were real.  So I am skeptical of any such claims which lack a Swdenborgian calibre of verification.  If I ever become convinced that some of my own apparent OBEs are genuine, I may change my perspective on the alleged OBEs claimed by others.  Boris and I merely expressed skepticism over the calibre of your alleged verification.   I agree that there is no substitute for direct experience and I will continue to experiment with my Gateway CDs.

Don

Don,

FYI,

I used the peer moderator system earlier today to object to some of the objectionable posts by one of the members you mentioned.  So far, nothing happened.



Matthew

Berserk wrote on Jan 5^th, 2007 at 10:37pm:

Dude, though I consider your tone in the posts in question to be vulgar personal attacks, I apprediciate your expressed abhorrence of demeaning insults.  I am prepared to take new pictures.  Demonstrate that you are morally house-broiken in future posts to me  and you'll find me a polite debating parmer.   But dammit, read Malachi Martin to demonstrate your willingness to consider both sides of the relevant  questions! I have experienced all the classical symptoms of OBEs, and yet, I know none of mine were real.  So I am skeptical of any such claims which lack a Swdenborgian calibre of verification.  If I ever become convinced that some of my own apparent OBEs are genuine, I may change my perspective on the alleged OBEs claimed by others.  Boris and I merely expressed skepticism over the calibre of your alleged verification.   I agree that there is no substitute for direct experience and I will continue to experiment with my Gateway CDs. Don

Well it seems that Don (Beserk) is at his very best again. He's been hanging around this
site for quite a while. His writings is somewhat leaned towards the Neo-Christian Right-
wing family. ...Burn in hell if you don't believe!!!??...He is one of these 'Pretend Saviours'
that roam and patrol New Age Sites....His Belief System is Fixed and Immovable...Heaven
help Bruce Moen who deleloped a new one through Exploration, he may think.  Maybe
you (Don) should tell Bruce M. that he is going to burn in hell!??? for his free-will writings
and honest explorations?.....He most often repeats his OOBE as being un-real...It's just to  sway those new to Bruce's Site to his fixed christian thinking....Give us a break Buddy!!?
Stick to your own christian sites!?...Why are you here(New Age sites)?????? G.Man.
Get a Life Buddy??...


 

Gman, gman, gman... you are a brave soul.  Usually all you have to do to start a fight with Berserk is to simply state your dislike of a certain belief in which he holds... but wow, I can not imagine how large the can of worms is that you just opened up.  Good luck man, im looking forward to seeing the outcome of this one..  

Dude, though I consider your tone in the posts in question to be vulgar personal attacks, I apprediciate your expressed abhorrence of demeaning insults.  I am prepared to take new pictures.  Demonstrate that you are morally house-broiken in future posts to me  and you'll find me a polite debating parmer.   But dammit, read Malachi Martin to demonstrate your willingness to consider both sides of the relevant  questions!

I have experienced all the classical symptoms of OBEs, and yet, I know none of mine were real.  So I am skeptical of any such claims which lack a Swdenborgian calibre of verification.  If I ever become convinced that some of my own apparent OBEs are genuine, I may change my perspective on the alleged OBEs claimed by others.  Boris and I merely expressed skepticism over the calibre of your alleged verification.   I agree that there is no substitute for direct experience and I will continue to experiment with my Gateway CDs.

Don[/quote]


Well it seems that Don (Beserk) is at his very best again. He's been hanging around this
site for quite a while. His writings is somewhat leaned towards the Neo-Christian Right-
wing family. ...Burn in hell if you don't believe!!!??...He is one of these 'Pretend Saviours'
that roam and patrol New Age Sites....His Belief System is Fixed and Immovable...Heaven
help Bruce Moen who deleloped a new one through Exploration, he may think.  Maybe
you (Don) should tell Bruce M. that he is going to burn in hell!??? for his free-will writings
and honest explorations?.....He most often repeats his OOBE as being un-real...It's just to  sway those new to Bruce's Site to his fixed christian thinking....Give us a break Buddy!!?
Stick to your own christian sites!?...Why are you here(New Age sites)?????? G.Man.
Get a Life Buddy??...
*****************
Well, G-man... I don't think Don's going to have ANY respect for
what YOU say. Why is that, you ask?
I notice in your profile, that you registered for this forum on
"666 day." That pretty much makes you a "member of the New
Age ghetto herd" as far as Don's concerned, I'd imagine..!
(I wonder if he'll make the jump to accusing you of being a
Satanist?)

B-man

Hi Tim,

I find that Don does not seem to grasp the subtle humor behind your comments.  Such as when you mentioned a hearty hello to see Ra back posting, and greeted him with an electric joy buzzer in your hand for his off-color remarks.  Or the time when you talked of bullying about someone else's comments, but D mistook it for himself (it was clear on re-reading it to all).

You have it together my friend; Buddhist or spiritual seeker, people like you and Blink on this site speak from the heart to those who would listen.  You certainly do not condone demeaning comments, yet you flow with the game in this dualistic world, forum, and universe.  

For all of you young ones out there when you read Tim, there is much you can learn.

And I too am glad to have Don back posting, as Tim is.  Tim talked of it just "feeling" right to have Ra express himself in such a vulgar way.  I disagree with that personally, but it "feels" right to have Don here, and Brendan.  Will any of the characters here change, or evolve their points of view?  Maybe not in the short term, but we are all on a course for change and growth.


Matthew

Anyone can state their own beliefs or disbeliefs, but they don't have to be insultive thats true.

I was thinking earlier that the possiblity that some out of body travelers may not have seen angelic beings because maybe they are at a place they cannot reach?

I have seen an angel right outside of my bedroom while out of body lol.  Angels can been seen by all out of body travelers I beleive, it is only the souls who are caught up in the lower planes of the afterlife who cannot percieve them, for the angels vibrations are too high and the lost soul's vibrations are too low to perceive the higher beings.  If an out of body traveller has not seen an angel, I believe it is not because they cannot reach the higher place, but because they have not.  I am nothing special, if I can reach higher planes than theres no reason any other OBErs cannot.  But I do agree that in most cases you need to be on their level of light and vibrations in order to see them.  I have never seen an angel in the lower, darker realms, but only in the high realms full of light.

Hi EggShells, glad u didn't go away. I'm with you..the future is here already. I can see little flying ships instead of cars on the ground. we will dimension slide like the ufo's can do already.
angels? just helpers, evolved over eons of living. the light? our atmosphere with intelligence added. the light makes the dark dissapate.
we need darkness to understand light.

DNA? it is a strand of information both physical and nonphysical are extentions of one another's vibrational frequency. we are solid light.

the aliens, our future selves are changing our DNA. DNA is built in the cell.
DNA is Light.
what we do with the light is our choice in decision daily.
what we do with the darkness is our choice in decision daily.

Don is here to represent opposition to enable us all to come to grips with our belief systems which are always limited.
Insults are to be risen above and the focus will be on the "One."


http://www.photobucket.com/albums/k281/sparkletags2/Icons/L/lookatme.gif  

The dna in mankind has been fixed in the way that it has so that you grow old.
It was done purposly, no accident.

[G-man:] "His writings is somewhat leaned towards the Neo-Christian Right-
wing family. ...Burn in hell if you don't believe!!!??...He is one of these 'P....His Belief System is Fixed and Immovable...Heaven...Maybe you (Don) should tell Bruce M. that he is going to burn in hell!???"
______________________________________

G-man, you illustrate the standard practice of this site's New Agers.   You create a false and nasty caricature of alternative perspectives to avoid the hard work of hionest and open inquiry.  Tell me where I claim or imply, "Burn in hell if you don't believe" and urge me to tell Bruce M. that he is destined for Hell.  In fact, Bruce's work revives the ancient Christian doctrine of soul retrievals.   Christianity is the earliest literary evidence for a belief in retrievals.   For that, Bruce deserves Hell?  Shame on you for imputing that mean-spirited belief to me!  If you and your New Age ilk are capable of such distortions on this board, how can you be trusted to present reliable truths derived from the murky swamps of astral exploration?

You allege with no evidence that my "Belief system is fixed and unmovable."  I have read dozens of New Age books on the paranormal evidence for the afterlife and my perspective has been greatly enriched in the process.  Tell me, G-man, how many books have you read offering a rational defense of Christianity?   Yet your slander eludes censure from the New Age groupies here who are blind to their own double standard.  

Don

Um .. good discussions over all the threads.  So I'll just pipe up here now ..

God and His exalted Son Christ is Omnipresent in everything and everyone.  It is up to each individual to seek and find this for themselves; whether we are in body or out of body.

God made man in His image - the image of God is not an alien image.  The future body of man is to be invisible.

Gman why do you lack love in your heart?  Why do you use labels when the very people who speak like you created these labels to deface all that is good and fair ...?  

When I wrote "entering the castle 2" I talk about God. Heaven forbid---- No one even read it!! So my God only exist to me! Oh, well.  I know that He/She exist for me.  Love and Light--- Carol Ann

Identcat, I'll go read it. it must have gotten overlooked. I think every post should be responded to here, but we all seem to be focusing on separate directions and we like to talk more then listen to each other..human nature you know. It's probably a great post as all of your posts are good to me.

Greetings identcat,  :)

People are reading it (right hand column of numbers) but not writing back to you.  Sometimes you have to include questions to get responses.  :-?
Please do continue with it (and maybe add a note on #2 that it's part of a series.)
--------
God or no God?!

Bets

eggshellseas2 wrote on Jan 4^th, 2007 at 8:30pm:

I Am Dude wrote on Jan 4th, 2007 at 6:47pm: I believe that the term "God" is misleading and should be replaced with another word.  When people say god, they are most likely talking about a Zeus type character sitting up in heaven, creating us and creating things and watching over us with a judgemental eye and giving us hope in times of need and performing miracles on earth.  That is just not how things are, there is no mighty dude up there.  Perhaps we can replace the word God with.. AllYetOne.   I'm thinking this mesage board may not be for me, because I have seen the wicked people in my life confounded by their own actions, and for me I hate evil , I do, and if there is no one to decide what is to become of the souls of those whom destroy what is good whether its in heaven or here. Then that really puts me in a shallow place. What ever name you want to give him. Or not give him, I have felt glory and have seen angels, so d0on't say I'm crazy for saying so escpecially if you believe in aliens. I have seen, and heard the glory of God. There are physical places which goodness reigns, I belive that. This is going to become such a place, in this realm. So if you think that you can leave your body and become whatever it is you think you want to be. Good luck doing it on your own. I am sorry for my sarcasm, if it seems that way, I don't mean to be that way. I will continue my own route, I for one have someone watching over me. Here is one example: A girl was planning to marry an ex boyfriend of mine, she is half sister to a politician that you all know of. She refered to him as uncle. She knew about my son, whom was her boyfriends natural son, and even though I never told the guy about my son, she sought vengance, she tried to kill my son a number of times, even tried to toss him off a roller coaster. She even poisend us at one point, you see my cousin was her second cousin, she confessed it all to me. We lived. Then the angel visited me. Then I told things to my former pastor via the phone which he recorded. She became silent friends with this pastors wife which gave her the tape, and world events I spoke about were on that tape! And personel events, and these things happened and continue to happen. Eventuall the one that did this to me, she stopped talking and eating for a long period of time. I did nothing to cause that. Shes gotten better I suppose, I can't say for how long because she could be back for second row. And because I have faith, I can say bring it on! So who is there to help you?

Here is a simple test that you can take which will allow you to understand why there is no God the way most Christians see Him.  Meaning there is no Him.

You obviously believe in the power of prayer.  In fact, 3 out of 4 doctors believe God is performing medical miracles on earth right now.  Most Christians believe that god is curing cancers, healing diseases, and so on.

So here is the first question:
1.  Why won't God heal amputees?

We all know that amputees limbs do not regenerate in response to prayer.
If you are an intelligent person, you have to admit that it's an interesting question.
On one hand, you know that God answers prayers and performs miracles.
On the other hand, you know that God completely ingnores amputees when they pray for miracles.
If you are an intelligent person, you have to deal with this discrepancy because it makes no sense.  
In order to handle it, you have to make up some kind of rationalization.  You have to invent some kind of exuse on God's behalf in order to explain this strange fact of life.
You may say, "God must have a special plan for amputees", or somthing along those lines.  Then you stop thinking about it because it is uncomfortable.

Since you believe in God answering prayers, heres the next question:

2. Why are there so many starving people in the world?

Why would God be worried about you getting a raise, while at the same time ignoring the prayers of these desperate starving humans?

Does it make sense? Why would a loving God do this?
Once again, you must search for an explanation.  "God wants them to starve and die for some divine, mysterious reason."
Then you push it out of your mind because it absolutely does not fit with your view of a loving, caring God.

3. Why does God demand the death of so many innocent people in the Bible?

Exodus 35:2- God demands that we kill everyone who works on the Sabbath day.
Deuteronomy 21:18- God demands that we kill disobedient teenagers
Leviticus 20:13- God demands the death of homosexuals
Deuteronomy 22:13-21- God demands that we kill girls who are not virgins when they marry.
And so on.  There are lots of verses like these.

Does it make sense? Would a loving God want you to murder your fellow human beings for such trivial matters?
Its insane.  So you think of an explanation to make yourself more comfortable with it.

4. Why does the Bible contain so much anti-scientific nonsense?

For example:
God did not create the world in 6 days 6000 years ago like the Bible says.
There was never a worldwide flood that covered Mt. Everest like the Bible says.
Jonah did not live inside a fish's stomach for three days like the Bible says.
God did not create Adam from a handful of dust like the Bible says.

It makes no sense, so you create some type of very strange excuse to explain why the Bible contains such nonsense.

5. Why was God such a huge proponent of slavery in the Bible?

You have to come up with a weird rationalization to explain it.

There are many more questions, but hopefully you get the picture at this point.  

B-dawg wrote on Jan 5^th, 2007 at 7:26pm:

***************** Looks like a kinky piece of pre-historical porn to me. (Like the "Venus of Willendorf" from 20,000 years ago in Europe, or any number of voluptuous Hindu goddesses seen carved on hundreds of temples throughout India...) I'm a SKEPTIC about aliens, Eggy. I don't believe we have been, or are being visited by them (interstellar space travel being likely impossible... speed of light limit and all.) But I DO believe that aliens are out there, somewhere. It is a big universe. A SCIENTIFIC universe mind you... NOT A MAGICAL ONE!!! There is NO such thing as "magic" (except the on-stage, pull- a-rabbit-out-of-a-hat kind.) Hence I can believe in aliens (as Carl Sagan did... aliens being scientifically possible!) but NOT "angels" or a "Zeus"-type, humanoid "God", which are MAGICAL concepts... Did I make myself clear now..? B-man

Beware of ego.  

The same faith it takes to believe in God, is what is required to believe there isn't a God, is what is required to believe that there are Aliens, is what there is required to believe in OBE's...

You can say, "but i've experienced OBE's" great! and someone else has experienced "God" - you can say "but that's just their mind playing tricks" and just turn to any sci-skeptic on OBE's and they'll say the same thing, won't they?

Everything is based on personal perception.  But if you see the motivating factors here, you'll see you're not much different then me, or eggshellseas.  We all believe in something. That's our base motivation. If you can respect users like eggshell... then you can respect yourself.  But if you mock and belittle other's and their beliefs, do you truly respect yourself? ... and what are the karmic consequences of your words? Or perhaps you don't believe in Karma... i dont know. i'm not here to preach, just offer a idea that we all believe in something - and we should respect each other's foundation of belief.  We certainly dissagree with each other, but we should still respect each other - and not make references to God having a "pecker" just to prick and cause pain in someone's faith.

As a side note... my understanding of occultism and spiritism, is that the male and female aspects of God/goddess etc. is really just a reference to the nature of the energy - not a reference to anatomy.  But that's my foundational belief.  I'll respect your's - i just disagree that "magic" doesn't exist. :)  

Hi Dude.

You actually raised some good Questions.  I'm on the fence on some of them.  However, I think this is really a discussion that's slightly out of focus.  God can be a "him" or a "her" - simply based on the believer.  that's my opinion.  I think of life of having a Divine Source (ultimate consciousness, God, whatever you call it) that manifests to people as they have the language to understand.  Like a dream, if you will. You have dreams that talk to you in your own mental language.  

To play devil's advocate here....
1. The Amputee question:
  Let's ask another question.  Why do some people respond to healing and not science?  How does someone with terminal cancer get "healed" from some sort of spiritual practice?  Is it the product of the mind? Is the mind that powerful? if it is... then the mind should be able to regrow new limbs.  Curing Cancer and cellular regrowth is very similar in concept.  If one is possible why not the other?  Perhaps, it's the scope.  The leap of faith is too great to cause a healing of the amputee... this leap of faith being the failure for either system of healing (by a God or by the person's own mind.)  

2. Starving People.. I'll play devil's advocate here (hehe play on words :) )
 Although I wouldn't call myself a Christian, having a father for a minister, I can a test that the Christian faith doesn't support that God is cruel, but that the Christian concept of God espouses that Free Will is the greatest gift to any being.  The gift being granted to humankind, created the famine you see today. We may not agree, but it is a logical reason based on the system of faith.  I'm sure other religions have similar concepts that due to Free Will people chose greed over love and the stranglehold shaped itself into the physical world in forms of famine, etc.
 For a different (nont Western Religion) take: In Buddhism (incidently which doesn't believe in a Divine or Surpreme Source), the Mahayana School (The Dalai Lama is Mahayana Buddhist, to give an idea of what they are - to those who may not know)  believes that our world is an illusion of the mind.  There is a real world out there, but we see it through illusions based on our karma. So you say "I see a world of famine" and the Buddhist would say, "you created it, take responsibility for it."  They'd say YOU are the one responsible, if YOU see the problem. That's just another interesting take on world views. Thought I'd share.  I kinda like the Buddhist response.  Further, in that line of thought, if you were to "clean up your karma" and become enlightened, you may not have a reality where famine exists.  The idea is called "Emptiness."  

3. The Death Problem
Yeah I've had this same problem with the Old Testament - and i Agree with you, it's a problem that sticks in my craw as well. However, I just don't condemn or look to judge another's belief system.  I'd rather suggest you stay positive with people you don't agree with - i.e. a Fundy Christian, and focus on the teachings of Love and compassion (ala Jesus.)  There's no real value in scorching someone's beliefs.

4. Anti-Scientific Nonsense
To play devils advocate again... The Bible doesn't... The Bible has a 6 day creation of existence. But what is a day?  :)  The sun, the galaxies, nothing existed, but it references  a 6 day creation... perhaps a day to the Christian God, is a 100 billion years to us?  It's a metaphore... and as such can't be held to scientific debate.  Also the Bible makes no claim that all creation started 6k years ago. That's a Fundy assertion.  People who try and make the metaphors of the Bible, scientific.  
Each of the examples you give is a good metaphor... think of a man being created from mud or dirt... that's similar to the concept of a primordeal soup.  Or even to certain ideas on evolution.  it's clever. a concept that could be understood 2000 years ago, as well as today.  A flood covering the earth... each culture in the world has a flood story... so who's to say it didn't happen.  A man in the stomach of a whale for 3 days... well, stranger things have happened.  Consider your own faith in Aliens and implants (i sneaked a peak at a dif post of yours) I'd consider that a man living in a whale by divine operation and a alien pulling out your left eye and dropping a device down your eye socket - amount to the same category - faith :)

and besides, a Scientific skeptic would wag his finger at you on your beliefs of Aliens, OBE's and retrievals saying they're all mental fantasies.  It's not very nice is it?  

Basically you can ask quesitons all day long about someone's belief system.   They can do it to you.  Do you think the scientific community would look at this message board and say "there's a group of wise folks"?  No way. They'd offer similar questions to OBE's, NDE's, Angels, Demons, and so on.

The wisest thing to do, is live in peace, and mentally go in separate ways.  There's no value in this line of questioning.  None.  What if you converted this person(s) to an atheist?  So what?  What if they agree with you now?  The only redeeming value there is Ego.  yours.  There's no purpose to "winning" this argument.  It does no good.  "Now they think like me"  Great.  And that makes them... any happier?  What if they don't swing to your view? Then this is just a waste of your energy.  

Believe in what you believe... and if you disagree, ask some questions but don't get to the whole "that religion is flawed" tactic, as nothing good comes from it... and ultimately, you'll reap the karma for that line of thought/questions.  You'll have your own "dude" in your life who will condemn all your beliefs and mock them and question them.  


I Am Dude wrote on Jan 10^th, 2007 at 1:42am:

Here is a simple test that you can take which will allow you to understand why there is no God the way most Christians see Him.  Meaning there is no Him. You obviously believe in the power of prayer.  In fact, 3 out of 4 doctors believe God is performing medical miracles on earth right now.  Most Christians believe that god is curing cancers, healing diseases, and so on. So here is the first question: 1.  Why won't God heal amputees? We all know that amputees limbs do not regenerate in response to prayer. If you are an intelligent person, you have to admit that it's an interesting question. On one hand, you know that God answers prayers and performs miracles. On the other hand, you know that God completely ingnores amputees when they pray for miracles. If you are an intelligent person, you have to deal with this discrepancy because it makes no sense.   In order to handle it, you have to make up some kind of rationalization.  You have to invent some kind of exuse on God's behalf in order to explain this strange fact of life. You may say, "God must have a special plan for amputees", or somthing along those lines.  Then you stop thinking about it because it is uncomfortable. Since you believe in God answering prayers, heres the next question: 2. Why are there so many starving people in the world? Why would God be worried about you getting a raise, while at the same time ignoring the prayers of these desperate starving humans? Does it make sense? Why would a loving God do this? Once again, you must search for an explanation.  "God wants them to starve and die for some divine, mysterious reason." Then you push it out of your mind because it absolutely does not fit with your view of a loving, caring God. 3. Why does God demand the death of so many innocent people in the Bible? Exodus 35:2- God demands that we kill everyone who works on the Sabbath day. Deuteronomy 21:18- God demands that we kill disobedient teenagers Leviticus 20:13- God demands the death of homosexuals Deuteronomy 22:13-21- God demands that we kill girls who are not virgins when they marry. And so on.  There are lots of verses like these. Does it make sense? Would a loving God want you to murder your fellow human beings for such trivial matters? Its insane.  So you think of an explanation to make yourself more comfortable with it. 4. Why does the Bible contain so much anti-scientific nonsense? For example: God did not create the world in 6 days 6000 years ago like the Bible says. There was never a worldwide flood that covered Mt. Everest like the Bible says. Jonah did not live inside a fish's stomach for three days like the Bible says. God did not create Adam from a handful of dust like the Bible says. It makes no sense, so you create some type of very strange excuse to explain why the Bible contains such nonsense. 5. Why was God such a huge proponent of slavery in the Bible? You have to come up with a weird rationalization to explain it. There are many more questions, but hopefully you get the picture at this point.

Quote:

4. Anti-Scientific Nonsense To play devils advocate again... The Bible doesn't... The Bible has a 6 day creation of existence. But what is a day?    The sun, the galaxies, nothing existed, but it references  a 6 day creation... perhaps a day to the Christian God, is a 100 billion years to us?  It's a metaphore... and as such can't be held to scientific debate.  Also the Bible makes no claim that all creation started 6k years ago. That's a Fundy assertion.  People who try and make the metaphors of the Bible, scientific.   Each of the examples you give is a good metaphor... think of a man being created from mud or dirt... that's similar to the concept of a primordeal soup.  Or even to certain ideas on evolution.  it's clever. a concept that could be understood 2000 years ago, as well as today.  A flood covering the earth... each culture in the world has a flood story... so who's to say it didn't happen.  A man in the stomach of a whale for 3 days... well, stranger things have happened.  Consider your own faith in Aliens and implants (i sneaked a peak at a dif post of yours) I'd consider that a man living in a whale by divine operation and a alien pulling out your left eye and dropping a device down your eye socket - amount to the same category - faith

Whats up Brian seven.  I couldnt help but notice you claim that these writings from the bible are simply metaphors.  I know many Christians who believe these writings to be literal.  Its funny, its as if people pick and choose parts of the bible to be either literal or metaphorical to suite their needs.  Like.. "oh yea the story of Jesus, definatly 100% literal, definatly all real... yeah, he rose from the dead! No metaphors, all real!" But then you have the same person saying... "oh, well noone can live in a fish for 3 days! Its a metaphor"(I'm not referring to you, just a general example).  Oh so its impossible to live in a fish, but its possible to rise from the dead after days? Ha.  The Bible... it has great moral teachings, but it has the silliest stories ive ever heard.  

But I don't think I would put an obvious fairytale such as a man living in a whale in the same category of Aliens/ETs.  You would have to be an extremely closed minded person to believe we are the only intelligent living beings in our infinately, multi-dimentioned universe.  Add on top of that the billions of pieces of evidence supporting UFO and abduction phenomenon(not to mention the clearly covered Roswell incident, as well as serious confirmation from well respected Remote Viewers) and you have yourself a pretty darn real occurance.    

Show me as much evidence for a man living inside a fish or for Jesus rising from the dead as there is for Aliens and Ill shake your hand and call you Charley.

You keep bringing up the Ego as if I live to constantly gratify mine.  I would encourage you to stop, for this is not at all true and you cannot judge someone simply based on a post.  This whole thread's purpose is to debate on God.  So that is what we are doing.  I am giving people reasonable questions to consider regarding a certain type of God stereotype.  If they take these questions to heart, maybe they will come to a better understanding of what God really is.  There is no arguement here for me to win, and the only motive behind my posts is to bring people to a closer understanding to the truth.  Whats wrong with that?  Nothing.  I'd suggest getting to know someone before making accusations.