I'm assuming that most of you have read Robert Monroes books, if you haven't then get with the program. But for anyone who totally understands his theorys on the higher self and reincarnation, i have a question thats been bugging me. After our life here on earth when we choose to join our higher self once again, do we retain our own personal conscienceness, or do we have a new conscienceness of our higher self. I ask this because i know he claims that we have many different personalitys and sub beings that compose of our higher self. So is this life we are living now the only one we will ever live on Earth? Or can one sub conscienceness live multiple lives on earth? I know that in theory we live multilple lives on earth, but those are all total different personalities than our individual selves. I ask this because I really dont want to end up in another body some day waking up as a new born, when this life on earth is over I'd like to be chillin up in the big focus27 or with my higher home slice.  I want to realize what I really am, which will happen when I leave earth. But I dont want to have to forget it all again.

Discover your Basic(s).  Do your part for your I-There.  Then... wink out.

OutOfBodyDude,

I don't think it's time yet for you to tell the members of this board to "get with the program"  for any reason, let alone, of all things, Monroe's books. Such arrogance skews judgement and inhibits learning, which is one reason you're here, right?

Rob

I do not think I've ever heard a Monroe or spiritual theory of the extinction of personality or identity against its will.  From what I understand, free will reigns supreme.  If a person chooses to identify his/her individuality, they may continue to do so, with connections to their higher selves.  This may sound like a contradiction, but in reality it is not.

The ultimate revelation is the unity of all things.  Many see this as nihilistic, causing us to melt away into a vast cosmic consciousness.  I choose, instead to see it as a deep understanding of life that may be achieved while maintaining one's conscious awareness.  If my theory is correct, then the individuals could persist indefinitely within their higher selves, and choose activities to do or other incarnations, should it suit them.


As to the "get with the program" lighten up.  Its a figure of speech, I'm sure not meant to come across as arrogant or rude - else there would not have been the earnest question behind
it.  


Matthew

OutOfBodyDude,

>> After our life here on earth when we choose to join our higher self once again, do we retain our own personal conscienceness, or do we have a new conscienceness of our higher self.  <<

Your question assumes that at some point you became a consciousness that was separated from your higher self, something you are labeling "our own personal consciousness."  Perhaps a key to understanding what Monroe is trying to describe is in understanding that such separation is impossible.  It would be like my big toe perceiving itself within perspective in which it is all itself that exists, and then claiming it was separated from the rest of my body.   You and I would say that is nonsense, if my big toe was truly separated from the rest of my body it would cease to exist as a big toe.  My big toe's perception of separation is a self imposed illusion induced by the choice of perspective my big toe chooses to perceive itself within.  What would that imply about who and what we really are?

Perhaps what you describe as our own personal consciousness is just your higher consciousness viewing itself from the perspective of one of its individual expressions, a sort of narrowed, small view perspective?  Perhaps choosing "to join our higher self once again" is just a matter of the higher self choosing to view itself from a much larger perspective?

Bruce

Outofbodydude:

Adding on to what Bruce is saying, if you viewed your existence through the perspective of your toe, wouldn't you prefer to view yourself from the perspective of your entire body.

If you take this a little further, wouldn't you prefer to view yourself from the perspective of your entire self, rather than from the perspective of your body.

Whatever the case, I don't believe that anything is ever forced on a person. When a person finds that more happiness and love can be found by expanding, a person will do so.

One time I asked about how a self (disc member) views things after it rejoins its disc, and I was shown a fish tank with some fish swimming in it. Along with this image I got the mental message that just as each fish within a fish tank perceives the entire fish tank from its perspective, each self of a disc perceives its disc from its perspective. By "perspective," I don't mean to imply the confusion that individual perspectives include when people live in the physical World or a limited belief system.

Yes, it's a figure of speech. That it has more than one well known interpretation is also obvious. It's his responsibility to be clear. No one should have to guess what he means. Nonetheless, if indeed he meant well then I apologize.

Rob

Actually, Bruce, when I stub my big toe, it SEEMS to be all there is, and the rest fades away. In fact, it's hard to get rid of the idea - until it stops throbbing. This is one of the reasons that I view life in general as a major BST. Were it not to be this way, we'd all be aware all the time that we are God, which would make it difficult to allow ourselves to be stuck in a material world where we are forced to learn. But that's a person opinion.

Yogis occasionally report having a consciousness in more than a single place at a single time. The Bardo Thodol literature also suggests that we are multiple in location and personality, providing that we "do it" that way. However, in doing regressions in a clinical setting I have never encountered a person who reported events that implied multiplicity.

Dick Sutphen likes the idea of simultaneous lifetimes in multiple time eras. I have no data on this, but I did encounter one case in which a woman died as a woman, became a rabbit (to learn about destiny), and then was reborn as a person again. However, this was not a multiple, but sequence very obviously out of the usual order. I have had many people who seemed to jump around time, but this is the only one with an animal existence in the middle.

dave

where your attention goes defines what you  are looking for...seek... why not?  and so does it matter what others think...maybe.. then explore this and all the feelings involved... and perhaps many other doors will open..feed back loops are necessary...sometimes we don't recognize them immediately

Dave,



dave_a_mbs wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2006 at 7:04pm:

Actually, Bruce, when I stub my big toe, it SEEMS to be all there is, and the rest fades away. In fact, it's hard to get rid of the idea - until it stops throbbing.

I completely agree.  It seems that our physical world senses have a way of providing such a continuous, consistantly high level of attention-grabbing input it can be difficult to be aware of much else.


dave_a_mbs wrote on Nov 2^nd, 2006 at 7:04pm:

Yogis occasionally report having a consciousness in more than a single place at a single time..

My experience suggests that simultaneous awareness within multiple perspectives (levels, places, or whatever label we use) is the norm, but that the "stubbed toe" effect of physical reality perspective senses typically swamps our receiver, so to speak.  Still we typically have some limited level of our awareness simultaneously focused with those other levels/places/perspectives.  These are often experienced as intuitions, deja vu, clairvoyance, psychic events, prophetic events or dreams, etc.

In my own case an experience recounted in Voyages into the Afterlife perhaps comes close to simultaneous awareness in multiple places reported by others.  During a TMI program, Exploration 27 as I recall, I seemed to have split into five different selves who were in five different places.  Three of these were each in separate locations, carrying on three separate conversations with three different people.  "I" (meaning I as the observer, one of the five I-s in this experience) was able to shift my focus of attention from one of these places/conversations to the next and as "I" entered one of these "I" became engaged in that conversation in a first person sense.  After engaging in this way "I" was also aware that there were two other I-s in the other two conversations, but "I" was not aware of the details of those conversations.  "I" discovered that I could sort of move backwards and slightly upwards into another place where the fourth me was.  Upon entering this location I became simultaneously aware of every detail, moment by moment, of the three converstions going on in the three other locations.  That was a very, very odd state to be in and difficult to describe.  It would be like saying I was listening to three seperate radio talk show programs and getting every detail of all three, and at the same time being a participant in the studio of each of those talk shows.  

Very, very strange.

Bruce

Hi Bruce-
A split into 5 independent viewpoints! That's fascinating! Bardo Thodol is verified. (I personally group yogis and mediums like yourself as one.)

My wife claims to have a single viewpoint, with 4 additional inner scenarios that tend to externalize at times. I personally haven't experienced that. But looking into cosmological ideas I find that there is a moderately well supported notion among some physicists that reality arises from an initial pair-wise eigenstate, which iterates as a complexion. My interpretation suggests that a 2-space thus iterates to a 3-space and that iterates to a 7-space,. That gives our ordinary balanced 3-space everyday Gallilean world, plus 4 alternative degrees of freedom, which I identify with the the dynamic energy-momentum 4-vector. If we use each extra degree of freedom as a locus of personality, plus the initial 3-space state, we can get five viewpoints out of this.

Years ago, I demonstrated that the iterated complexion sequence is a valid model for generation of creative ideas (made a good PhD thesis, r=.9 typ, p<0.001), but I have no experience with the idea as an experiential or perceptual state. Yours is the first report that might favor this type of explanation. I'm really intrigued. The inferences, with respect to the modalities of our existence,  might include reproducible concepts about all manner of exteriorizations and exotic states.

I'm very interested in your thoughts about possible mechanisms.

Wow! This is exciting stuff!

dave

i believe the soul is on the jouney and can take whatever form available. the individual we believe we are is a mold of the clay we posses presently. our ignorance stems from our lack of understanding. we are temoparily unconcious from our true form. thankfully we have the option while in this ignorance to wake up before we pass over.

Thanks for your input everybody. Yeah what I said get with the program it was just a little joke, don't lynch me. You guys helped a lot especially Bruce, thanks a lot.

yea, I'm excited too, thanks
Bruce for telling us about five different viewing points that are all yourself. goes along with all life is one premise, and that would include the experience of being a rabbit. actually, I've felt a little like a rabbit now and then! :)  I currently study a school of thought which ties in with what Bruce experienced wherein consciousness in essence form can have as many as 200 projected lives (as one being) this is like the disc vision to me. and all these lives can be stationed in any location or planet or time period, and they all gather their own unique experiences, very seldom meeting up with each other in a physical sense, but if they did, it might account for an uncanny resonance with that person, which some of us have that occur.

wow. it is very strange, that might explain why theres so many angels dancing on the head of a pin...

Great thread everyone! I know I'll be looking over this one a few more times...and it's interesting,I've been doing some reading of my own lately(nothing new or earthshattering in itself), but kind of refreshing alot of information..and I love the way that after a lifetime(admittedly, only 32 yrs this time,lol) of gathering info from many sources,it never get's"old" for me, but more interesting still. Mr.Monroe being one of those authors I couldn't get enough of,though I need a refresher, working on it,typically I might read more than one book at a time,....glutton that I can be with things of this nature...;) and there's that feeling that I get,when reading things that  to me are my "truths"and who knows how that will progress and grow,exciting stuff indeed!...But,as I was saying,the things that really seem to reverberate in my very soul when I read them...like "Ah ha"moments,but more like,"Oh yeah",are the things I hold onto, and I am amazed at how now,my perception from ten years ago,let's say to now is so different in one way...all of a sudden,so many of the things that really jumped out at me...still do,but back then I'd think,"Wait,that contradicts this thing or that"...but now,I'm having this wonderful experience of finding that everything is compatible,at least with the things I picked up along the way as my favorite ideas and views.....okok...don't want to sprial into a small novel again ;D

I won't even pretend to be able to give a definitive answer to anything..but I too, have had several experiences of simultaneous realities, in a way..and being able to carry on conversations with "selves"..hmmm going to have to think long and hard before going into that....b/c it's difficult to articulate it,esp.when I'm open to different possibilities or combinations of...but I do feel at least,that we do have much say about this,where we want to take our own journey and such...and many times I've said to myself,"What,?! did I come back too fast, or what is this??I surely wouldn't have 'chosen' to come back here,if I was sane anyway.....what did I do in a past life that I'm paying for...etc...etc"..but then,deep down inside,I have this sure feeling that I did choose to come back,and alot of reading I've done seems to support this...that once we are able to see things more clearly,we see we can speed up our evolution, for one thing, by choosing to come back here...and I believe anyway, that when I feel this(lifetime) is taking waaayyy too long, that on the other side, there is a much different sense of time as well...but...like everything,it's the nature of my personal reality, and dosen't have to fit in with anyone elses...I cannot help but think that it's a very good thing that someone would even ask themselves these things, and that energy in itself,will find you your own personal answers, and that's awesome...that's why I love this board, b/c I can kind of mull over thoughts with others that think of the same types of things..

One book I've been reading is a book on channeling and our guides...and it's a short,easy read,that also mentions our higher self as well...even saying some prefer to channel their higher self...though I'm not finished it yet,so won't say too much. Another concept I seem to keep stumbling on is the idea that some souls "split"and live lifetimes in different bodies(same spark or soul),to speed up or enrich our learning process, and however that might sound, I can see it, and it would actually explain alot to me personally..but not to digress too much..I always felt it must be my higher self, that "identifies" with the spiritual reading,and encourages my searching and reading about it...

Speaking of this very topic of splitting...and having been a psychology major and working in that field for several years and from certain life experiences (I remember hearing "psychology" literally meant,"study of the soul") I was always and still am fascinated with the topic of MPD or more recently known as DID(Multiple Personality disorder,or Dissociative Identity Disorder) and how that works......b/c of the way the more core personalities esp.seem to have their own personal way and energy about them....at least I have the hope that as long as I'm living,I'll always have something to learn, and search out info and ideas on....thanks for yet more interesting food for thought...:)

Great topic. Monroe saw his future self one time, I think his future self was even aware of him! lol. I did too. yea it was real, I called it dual consciousness but there definetely was two forms, two viewpoints in two forms looking at each other and talking. its funny looking back, but was not funny in the least while it was happening. its something u never forget throughout your life; like a program running in your back hard drive, and you're always asking, now just what was that all about and what am I supposed to do with that info? I knew exactly what to do with what she told me to do. she frankly told me to open up. I was pretty closed down, like having a withdrawal from life I was. I mean, you would take yourself seriously if yourself was up in your face telling u whats coming down in a nice friendly sort of way, wouldn't you?
I remember the cause of the split. I had been sitting around thinking about obe and how some people can get outside their body and look at that lump in the bed and say wow thats me, I wanted to do one better though, I wanted to look into my own face as in a 3 D perspective. looking in the mirror at yourself is just not the same as seeing a 3d image, body, form and vanity was part of it, I wondered how other people viewed me in 3d, or if what I saw in the mirror was false; I didn't think just that desire to see what others saw would make it come true. I do remember getting excited about the idea of that happening though. I think excitement can sometimes help us accomplish these exeriences. then, I forgot all about I'd been thinking about those things so it was a surprise when it happened, but like I'd received a gift because I always cherished the memory of seeing this other me who had absolutely no problems that I had, and she was cool, she didn't judge me, she just shook her head a little sadly, lol, as if to say, you are really not treating me very well to hide from me and ignore me like you are, I just want to get to know you..

what she said was this was how people saw me, as closed down. that was a little hard to accept but I saw she was correct and I certainly didn't change overnight into her even though we were already one.

thanks KarmicKiss, I always enjoy your posts, and thanks to OutofBodyDude starting it up. heres a big sloppy kiss :-*

just wanted to add a few more thoughts to this thread before it gets washed away into the archives of infinity never to be heard from again :-/

I remember some opening lines in Bruce's books about how he set off to find out who he was and what he was.  I was thinking YEA! YEA! thats what its all about. do u think it will take a whole lifetime? probably since I believe we never stop or have an end point to say its done.
now considering how threatening that can be or confusing..to have this overview where you're hearing yourself involved in five different conversations as five different viewpoints, or people. would it not obliterate who u think u are right here and now?
would u not be crashing on a daily basis maybe? possibly, but thankfully we have been given the means to blink out of those realitys and ground ourselves into our comfort zones once more.
I think experiences that give such an overview to who and what we are tend to cast our thoughts in the direction that we are more than we think we are. then if you keep thinking this way it leads into a mind that becomes the collector of such thoughts and opens us up to not the "less than" thoughts but the "more than" thoughts, like a rote, and it builds and to put it simply, if u don't make it, u know your baby will, thats a serene thought of love I think about sometimes.

and if I don't make it, whatever it is, that other me over there will. :)

The question that is aroused in my mind is in the fact that we chose to leave our higher level of conscienceness to be hear on earth, To experience things on earth that cannot be experienced anywhere else. That is the main goal of why we are here. So even though it is exciting to experiment with what is really out there, it may throw some people off of their true meaning in this life on earth. The goal is to focus on things here and now, not out there beyond space and time. I admit, it is enlightening to be able to experience these great things like OBEs and retrievals. I wouldnt be the same with out the knowledge i have, it is important to realize were more than the physical. But its more important to have the best experience possible here on earth, because we are always going to be able to mess around out there after this life is over. I guess what Im saying is I think its better to take care of things in this world before becoming obssessed with the real deal out there. There are some exceptions, such as Bruce and Monroe, who it seems main goals in life is to expose others to realities beyond this world. Im not telling anyone what to do, just expressing some thoughts. Of course if your mad at reading this youll probably say, well your here right your obviously into things not of this world. Yeah, but I focus on the real world first, this is just play time.  ;D

Greetings,  :)
Yes, that does make me a bit angry.   ::)
So then, why are you continuing to post questions here, OOBD?
And take advantage of people's time and interest?
Many of us consider the retrieval work to be an extension of loving others, resolving situations where previous love had not been adequately supplied. Have you tried it yet?
bets

Quote:

There are some exceptions, such as Bruce and Monroe, who it seems main goals in life is to expose others to realities beyond this world. Im not telling anyone what to do, just expressing some thoughts. Of course if your mad at reading this youll probably say, well your here right your obviously into things not of this world. Yeah, but I focus on the real world first, this is just play time.

I feel there is no greater service to others than to retrieve them if they are stuck in the afterlife. This is not an obsession with me. This is one of the reasons that I am in this life. This was in my before life this time planning/blueprint. I am being true to myself.  I was led to Bruce's books and TMI by my Guardian Angel Azrael who just happens to be the Archangel who accompanies everyone into the afterlife. Should I go against my life plan?

Namaste, Mairlyn

Hi OOBD-
The question that some of us are asking is exactly where the "real world" leaves off and the "play time stuff" begins. Is the "interlife phase" a normally accessible interval that we generally have overlooked, or is it perhaos the core experience and we're stuck out here in neverland trying to get home?

For example, where does the "you" end? At the interior of your psyche? Or do "you" extend to fill your skin? Ot do you also include your clothing? And then maybe the vehicle you drive, or you home, or your city etc. Does the energy of your existence end at a neuronal synapse in your head, or does it exteriorize into the surrounding space, or does it continue to include everything that you have ever done and all the stuff with which you have interacted?

Then there's the questiojn about how it works. Do we live in a world defined by wholly physics, or are there some loose ends that allow unusual thngs, like Bruce's 5-viewpoint exteriorization that suggested to me a 4-vector generated out of everyday 3-space (the space is valid, it's actually the dual vector space to our 3-space plus its cross, rather than the M-E 4-vector - error on my part due to being excited etc). To discover this allows (in my own case) clinical applications that can deal with inner urges and past lifetimes more effectively than current materialistic behavioral psychology. (Besides, it's fun to upset the sacred cows of orthodoxy.)

And then there's the bottom line, that it's actually fun to rescue stuck souls an to poke about in the inner workings of the spiritual spaces surrounding us. Perhaps, were we able to understand them better, we could continue a normal lifetime  into a more elaborate world at the end of this life. Or maybe, as appears to be the case, we might simple merge back into the Creative Essence from which all this came, and not have to return.

I suggest that you can use this forum for any purpose you desire. And you'll notice that it has people of all levels of education, psychic skill and interest area.  Perhaps one of the most important things that it offers is a sounding board for each of us to use as we figure out the questions about life that we otherwise are unable to ask, because we lack a responsive audience. At the same time, this is a place where it is fully appropriate to question things - My discovery is that in every case, there will be someone who does something better, someone who does them worse, someone wiser, someone not as wise, and lots of peers who are muddling along in the middle ground.

So welcome - Enjoy.

dave

OutOfBodyDude,

Experiencing the afterlife (and experiencing all other paranormal stuff) from our vantage point of our physical existence is still experience.  It is unique in that perspective and isn't the same as doing it after we die.  Being in a physical life doesn't only have to mean you focus on everyday stuff in the physical world.  That would get too boring!  We need balance.  I also look at my spiritual side as part of who I am, and denying my interests and curiosities wouldn't be fair to me.  There is balance in everything.  There are plenty of people to help run the world, and one person can't do all and be all.  Also, take into consideration that we are not the same person our entire lifetime.  We change as we grow and learn.  There's purpose in that.  

We are multidimensional beings, so it's not like living life here means we've abandoned another part of existence to be here.  It's not like, oh I could be out "there" doing so many greater things but instead I'm living this silly little life.  We are all doing other things, this life is just one of them.  There is a greater design to it all that you are not aware of at the moment.  This lifetime is just a blink of an eye compared to the bigger picture.  

:)

Lately I have focused on myself mostly in my meditations and what is getting stronger is the feeling, or the increasing certainty, that I'm free to do what I want here- no helper is telling me what I have to do, this seems to be a principle, at least in my case.  So, when one has no reliable source for telling one what to do, you just do what you like and what seems right, and that includes of course to not get obsessed too much in anything because it reduces the learning as well as the fun.

Meditation, exploring, to stick with this "etheric" stuff and transcendent things, as well as religion, is providing a framework to interprete the physical world. Everyone has such a framework, and it's just natural to work on this framework- the physical world alone "says" nothing, it's all about what it means to each of us.

Spooky

thats true Spooky; about the framework. my experience is the same as yours, that over the years I slowly began to realize there was no one to tell me what I should or could do or express, that we have this freedom of creation of our ideals. u just do what you like. I agree. it was a revelation and also makes the music sound better. :)

one of ACIM's affirmations was: "I have given all the meaning to this here chair (insert any object) that I can."

(joke coming.) after that I realized I would not take my new couch with me when I died and that was a hilarious thought somehow, just until I realized there was a duplicate of the same couch on the other side which could appear solid if I wished.